(edited by Phantom.5389)
Simple, You will thank me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jATOZhxX1CY&list=FLUcUZImodoUfboLFJdKTjbw&index=44
I thank you for sharing the good taste in music. Did not keep up enough with Blue Stahli lately and did not even know he made another awesome track
The golden age of WvW. We were noobs, we were baddies, we started forming community and we went out in the open and massive fights were everywhere!
Been ages (3 years) since warrior’s movement skills are buggy and I’m just bringing up the same old request…
-Basic skill behavior
(1) : Warrior’s gap closer need to be more accurate. As an exemple [Rush] and [Bull rush] would need to get us on our target on a near 100% basis (see here terrain bug that could be the only non-player related reason for the skill not getting us on top of an ennemy). Those skills often get us behind our target, still a few steps away from them simply because the skill failed to identify where the person was walking to (see here simply walking and not actually blinking or dodging).
(2) : Gap closer skills should land their hit on a near 100% basis. Warrior’s gap closer skill have a hard time actually landing their hit. Taking [Savage leap] as an exemple (even if the skills cited as point 1 automatically result in a problem on landing the hit since you are not where your target is). As for [Savage leap], the movement part of the skill is pretty fine, it will get you to your target, sadly the animation when the warrior land and try to hit the target will sometimes bug and the warrior will swing the sword where the ennemy is not, resulting in a miss simply because the ennemy was moving (see here simply moving and not dodging or blinking away).
(3) : Warrior’s gap closer should not be affected by minus % movement speed. Since the 23rd of june patch, warrior movement skills have been made baseline and +% movement speed doesn’t affect them anymore, so why should -% movement speed affect them? Take [Evsicerate] as an exemple. This skill will travel about 200 range only when affected by [Chill]. This behavior is also true for [Shield Bash]. Especially since chill is now even more present with the new specialisation (Reaper). [Chill] could still make the skill behave slower than intended, but the distance traveled should still be what is written, a simple spammable condition should not punish a warrior mobility to that extent. Warriors needs to get back their mobility.
Once such basic behavior are corrected, we can then re-evaluate the situation in order to bring balance to the scene. Balancing should be done around mechanics that are working as intended…
(edited by Phantom.5389)
Warriors are so OP!
I mean, I once saw a warrior rush to the center of Legacy of the Foefire and cast ‘’Fear me’‘. The 5 enemies all panicked and exited the game. No wonder warriors don’t run ‘’Fear Me’’ after this incident…
The legend says those poor souls are still confined to a psychiatric hospital.
Watched the interviews from Reyana and they are amazing.
Favorite one was the interview with INS (hell, I am not from EU, but props to him ^^). He had a wide range of view and he covered many subjects such as roaming, havoc squad and the zergs perspective. (http://www.twitch.tv/reyana_atac/v/31478828).
There are 3 things Anet could do tommorow to make a huge recover from the bad situation WvW is currently in (at 15:44 in the highlights video).
-1 Bring back friday night reset
-2 Rewards on a daily basis for each objectives. Once you get your daily reward you get a chest with rewards in addition to the loots given by the NPC/players you’ve killed.
-3 Bring back Alpine Borderland. Alpine was loved (see the twitch chat hype when INS said the sacred comment ‘’Everyone would be running around, everyone would be fighting. Living the days! It’s like you know, you bring something back that people have been missing so much. You don’t realize how much you missed it until it’s gone. It’s gonna be massive!’’
Props to Reyana for taking the initiative and doing such a great job at it.
Thanks to all the commanders who participated in those interviews, many good points have been brought forwards.
But back to subject, those changes are great. I only have worries about commander sniping with the fact that hard rez would be impossible even for him. Maybe make it so squad members can hard rez their squad leader (him being the only exception). High risk since members might die and wont be able to be rezed, but a pug zerg without their commander is already as good as dead…
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Watched the interviews and I can agree that the interview from Reyana are amazing.
Favorite one was the interview with INS (hell, I am not from EU, but props to him ^^). As it was previously mentioned, he had a wider range of view and he covered many subjects such as roaming, havoc squad and the zergs perspective.(http://www.twitch.tv/reyana_atac/v/31478828).
There are 3 things Anet could do tommorow to make a huge recover from the bad situation WvW is currently in according to INS (at 15:44 in the highlights video).
-1 Bring back friday night reset
-2 Rewards on a daily basis for each objectives. Once you get your daily reward you get a chest with rewards in addition to the loots given by the NPC/players you’ve killed.
-3 Bring back Alpine Borderland. Alpine was loved (see the twitch chat hype when INS said the sacred comment ‘’Everyone would be running around, everyone would be fighting. Living the days! It’s like you know, you bring something back that people have been missing so much. You don’t realize how much you missed it until it’s gone. It’s gonna be massive!’’
Props to Reyana for taking the initiative and doing such a great job at it.
Thanks to all the commanders who participated in those interviews, many good points have been brought forwards.
Thanks for pointing that out!
Stronghold > Bunker snooze fest for me.
It’s all subjective to what a person likes and dislikes.
Still no stronghold, but we got snowball mayhem wich is more action packed, so I’m not too worried for my holidays.
Merry holidays!
Voted for friday night.
~Kovu
Oh well, sorry. I do agree that warrior got a thread with high post on it. But it is a half troll half serious thread if you ask me. Did you read it? This thread decipher how to obtain that 20k crit. Basically you use everything in order to obtain that burst. It’s pretty similar to the good old fresh air zerker ele. Massive damage, yet if he get a minimum of focus he is out to die a horrible death… Even then I believe fresh air ele on full zerk got better chance of escaping XD
Got to agree the user interface is good. The dismiss button on the ready check is great. Props for that ^^
-But the game do need a balance patch coming out soon :’(
I think Warriors would disagree.
Things need tweaking, but lets be real. Every single class in the game has threads calling for it’s nerf. The 20k gunflame thread being the warrior one.
Balancing a game is easy, getting the playerbase to believe that it’s balanced is impossible.
It’s sad that people still believe gunflame is op. In solo queue unranked vs new players maybe. It is a gimmick build. It means that the build is based onto one trick, thus why we call such a build a one trick poney gimmicky build. Once they enter berserker form they will gunflame and build adren to gunflame again before berserker runs out and becomes underperforming (see here even worst than core warrior when out of berserker form). Basically they have no sustain since this gimmicky build is all based on massive DPS sacrificing everything for those big bursts.
I do agree that the buff to rifle warrior (berserker) was not necessary and it was just a try from Anet to bring the elite spec of warrior up top with all the other elite spec with minimal efforts (see here boosting damage and not implementing any consistent changes concerning the real problems of the warrior class).
Warrior got nerfed since the last year, never by a big margin but always a little nerf. All those little nerf combined made the warrior pre-HoT to be average only. Not in the top builds, yet not in the bottom. Now? Warrior is just outclassed. A team will prefer a roaming revenant or a thief over a roaming warrior. A team will prefer any other support that came out with HoT in place of a support warrior. Will a gunflame warrior really fill a spot in ranked play? My answer to that is simply no. Even if the core warrior have its flaws, core warrior still top the elite spec of warrior. For sure gunflame warriors can be fun in a pug match (and by pug match I mean hotjoin/unranked or really really low rank).
-Warrior basic skills mechanic regarding their gap closers needs a fix. Bring back their mobility!
-Warrior is in need of a better sustain, considering every other profession got access to great sustain without sacrificing too much DPS. Currently warrior sustain is all about stances which consist of a burst sustain followed by nothing.
Take revenant for exemple. They have better sustain than the warrior. They have better mobility than the warrior with their blinks and superspeed (pop superspeed on demand and negate chill/cripple movement impairing effects while a melee warrior is doomed to be slow unless a hard condi cleanse is used…). They have strong auto attack and burst skills (thus invalidating the argument that warrior advantage is their damage…. it was true, I doubt it is anymore…). Revenant is also great when it comes to finishing of downed ennemies with [Elemental Blast] and [Chaotic Release] and their auto attack (pretty much countering the fact that warrior cleave on downed players is also part of why they were decent). Warrior banner was great, now with superspeed rez, it seems rather weak…
Sorry for the rant. I just can’t believe people still think warrior is OP…
I also concur and say balancing a game is not that easy. It is a big undertaking but it should be possible to reach a somewhat balanced game. As for the playerbase believing the game is balanced, you just need to get a rough balance. Remember when the complaints on the forums were usually about only one or two subject? An exemple : the big thread being solo Q vs Premades + Cele ele dominating. At another time it was Solo Q + burning guards. At another time it was Solo Q vs Premades + Skyhammer being out of place or Courtyard. My point is there was always one or 2 negative feedbacks subject getting over 1000+ views over the timeline of GW2 at a given time, maybe sometimes it reached 3. Right now there is : Solo Q vs Premade, thief dead, warrior dead and then the many X class is OP thread. Not saying all the claims are true. Just saying it is clear there is inbalance in the current GW2 PvP scene.
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BALANCE THIS FREAKING GAME ALREADY.
+1
Well, I feel like it is true that the material is limited, it is still week one of the ESL and some matches are still complete blowout where a team dominate so hard and there is no anticipation. But just take a look at Team PZ vs Apex Prime, this match was golden. I did prefer NA matches so far, EU were pretty much one sided sadly.
Also, take into account that GW2 ESL take place on a monday (so not going against big twitch top stream such as LoL or Dota2 ESL). It was quite interesting to watch and I plan to watch it today on live.
You can’t attribute the decrease of players to the desert borderlands.
[…]
- Old borderlands were not that popular back then either and people still prefered EBG. On SFR you would always had a 30ppl queue for EBG while the home map had some people, but the other 2 maps where kind of deserted. Some exceptions were made when a new season would start or the reset night.
What? Are you for real? Sorry if this information is true on SFR… It seems sad to me. EB is a great map on its own, it is what we call it the Pugland (pick up group land). It is an easy map with a lot of structures to run in if you get caught pants down. Usually there is a pugmander running the blob and that’s about it. On the other hand, a vast majority of the guilds were fighting in Alpine BL along with all the defense players trying to keep their structure (Alpine total PPT was higher than your corner of EB, any defenders knows that). EB is usually 1 big blob running around. Alpine was the backbone of WvW where you had your defense team in your BL, you usually had 1 or 2 ‘’for the fights’’ guilds running around in your home BL fighting off the enemmy guilds while you had even some more guilds fighting it off on the enemmy BL’s. Remember those defenders that did the callout in map chat in every map because your T3 garrison was being rushed? Those were the best fights I had in my history with GW2. SM fights usually just end up in a 3way and the lag fest that is involved cut the fun those massive fights could of been.
I do believe one of the major factor of the WvW population decrease is indeed the Desert borderland taking the Alpine BL place.
Could not watch the ESL on the 23rd of November. I just watched it and I can say that the casters are truly entertaining. Love to hear their thoughts on the match-ups and the history of the various team while giving some great coverage of the fights taking place.
Favorite match from the stream of the 23rd of November : Apex Prime vs Team PZ.
This match-up was super exciting and close. There were lots of action and we saw many game changing moments in all 3 of the matches. I felt like it was more action packed (maybe due to the builds being more bursty and less tanky?).
Anyway, thanks to all the teams that participated in the ESL so far and thanks to the casters for the work put towards that. Will be looking forward for more!
This thread is interesting so I will post my thoughts on warrior situation (can’t speak much for thief).
Even before looking at adrenaline decay, base fast hand and such. I would go back to even more basic things.
-Basic skill behavior
(1) : Warrior’s gap closer need to be more accurate. As an exemple [Rush] and [Bull rush] would need to get us on our target on a near 100% basis (see here terrain bug that could be the only non-player related reason for the skill not getting us on top of an ennemy). Those skills often get us behind our target, still a few steps away from them simply because the skill failed to identify where the person was walking to (see here simply walking and not actually blinking or dodging).
(2) : Gap closer skills should land their hit on a near 100% basis. Warrior’s gap closer skill have a hard time actually landing their hit. Taking [Savage leap] as an exemple (even if the skills cited as point 1 automatically result in a problem on landing the hit since you are not where your target is). As for [Savage leap], the movement part of the skill is pretty fine, it will get you to your target, sadly the animation when the warrior land and try to hit the target will sometimes bug and the warrior will swing the sword where the ennemy is not, resulting in a miss simply because the ennemy was moving (see here simply moving and not dodging or blinking away).
(3) : Warrior’s gap closer should not be affected by minus % movement speed. Since the 23rd of june patch, warrior movement skills have been made baseline and +% movement speed doesn’t affect them anymore, so why should -% movement speed affect them? Take [Evsicerate] as an exemple. This skill will travel about 200 range only when affected by [Chill]. This behavior is also true for [Shield Bash]. Especially since chill is now even more present with the new specialisation (Reaper). [Chill] could still make the skill behave slower than intended, but the distance traveled should still be what is written, a simple spammable condition should not punish a warrior mobility to that extent. Warriors needs to get back their mobility.
Once such basic behavior are corrected, we can then re-evaluate the situation in order to bring balance to the scene. Balancing should be done around mechanics that are working as intended.
(edited by Phantom.5389)
Sorry to inform you but… WvW is a RvRvR game mode, which in turn is an open pvp game mode. Meaning that realms (servers) fight each others. Does NPC represent the realms? No. The players/community on those servers represent the server. It is a mix between assault and defense (like any other RvR or RvRvR games). The fact that there are NPC’s you need to take down in order to capture an objective doesn’t mean it is not a pvp game mode anymore…Sadly, there is a difference between a great RvRvR game mode with useful PVE mechanics (keeps/towers/camps and their lord that are the required magnet in order to produce the fights) and irritating PVE mechanics (wind turrets, earth walls, flame turrets, slow turrets, random enemy creatures that gets you in combat outside any form of objectives, etc.).
WvW without any form of players fighting players would not be a viable game mode. When you say PVE is forced. I don’t consider taking down a lord that gets 0 chance of fighting back an actual group of players to be enough content on its own to qualify as a PVE game mode. I can affirm, as a matter of fact, that WvW would not have lived 3+ years if there was no Players vs players action involved. I will even add that the near entirety of its player base play WvW in order to beat other players, be it in all out brawl or in a tactical battle (siege/defense).
So basically, the OP is not asking to remove all the PVE mechanics. He is simply asking to remove those that are detrimental to WvW. Removing those undesirable mechanics won’t instantly heal the damage that HoT caused on the WvW game mode. But I am sure that it will bring back many of the WvW hardcore players that left after the release of HoT and the replacement of Alpine Borderland for the new Desert Borderland.
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What about the people who absolutely loved Alpine BL? I’m one of those… Hell I would take a snowy map any time over an arid desert (aesthetically speaking). And yes I’m a Canadian that love snow <3. As for the mechanics of the Desert borderland VS Alpine… For me it’s an easy choice.
My thoughts on the current map situation.
List of changes that seems to be welcomed from the threads I’ve read
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark. Maybe the duration of the sentry scouting players is slightly too long, small reduction of that debuff could be a good improvement (feel free to share your thoughts on that point).
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) The fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that could have potential, but in their current form they are not welcomed in WvW from what I’ve read
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… Here I think that simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so that yaks count! Yaks are useless now. This will also bring back the supply management that many defenders loved to take care of. Should I start the waypoint upgrade now or wait for the supply depot to fill up a little more in case this structure get attacked and we need the supply to defend? Spamming map chat asking for people to grab supplies elsewhere since the structure is about to get into an upgrade phase and such (maybe it did bring some unhappy moment when siege troll appeared, but the upside were well worth the downside of the change). Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Bay/Hills waypoint are back now, a good start on that aspect!
Things that I’ve read that are truly disliked in the other threads
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on).Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday night… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
(5) Guild upgrades being locked behind a PVE farm fest and high guild level of guild hall + big gold per use of the guild buffs.
(6) The new event in the Desert borderland map, at the moment it is not receiving much positive feedback. This event could of been great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point (like a capture point from pvp but scaled in size for WvW) could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environment. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. At least the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reach 0, the canon is yours. Also, a in game message should be given on all 4 maps prior to the event. But even then… maybe no event at all would be better?
(7) Barricades in Desert borderland map… Why even make them? They seems to only serve the purpose of stopping solo roamers from going around in the map as we used to do back in the days. It take ages to kill if you are a roaming group and will only be worth killing it if you are in a zerg… Another small irritating thing that I’ve found while trying to roam once more in this new borderland….
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be a good way to solve the problems with the current state of WvW. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).
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Actually… Bringing back Alpine would sure spice it up (atleast for me)
Won’t speak for everyone since I can only speak for myself… But I truly miss Alpine. Roaming in Alpine BL, sieging NE tower in order to get a response… if no response I would build a treb and start trebbing garrison and believe me… it took more time building the treb with the 100 supplies already in the tower than to actually get somone run over to NE tower to try and fight me :’). I miss running in the good old flat terrain where you could spot your ennemy from a considerable distance away and actually get a good fight… Those were the good old days.
Now I run around in the Desert BL and I sing sad songs eating ice cream hoping…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49tpIMDy9BE
Some guardians shine a light
Frozen by the fear from the necro besides me
Some eles make me feel alive and water me
A thief cut me from the line
Dizzy warrior, spinning endlessly
Somebody make me feel alive
A mesmer shattered me
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Did not play GW1… But kitten this RA thing from the previous game seems like a great idea. Would be fun and also there is simply no downside to this, only positive!
Liked your team? Stick with them and have fun! Did not like them? Leave team and go queue again.
Funny video XD Loved it. I just hope people don’t take the video seriously and ask for a nerf on that bunker thief build lol!
As for the warrior plays… dang son lol. That zerker ele you butchered had 0% protection uptime on d/d. He deserved to get schooled a bit but still… a little piece of myself cry every time I see such an ele in pvp XD
Nice video, keep up the good fun!
To be honest I found the caster quite amazing on this ESL so far. They did a great job following where the most important action was and I felt hooked to watch the NA ESL since the casting felt much more alive than previous casting of gw2 pvp. As for the EU ESL qualifiers, it was not so much the caster fault as to the match beign totally one sided for the most part. Maybe it does indeed feel a little too restrained at time, but it is clearly more entertaining than it was once.
I wish I could hear some more outburst when a great play comes to be. My all time favorite caster in the gaming industry : TobiWan from the Dota 2 caster team https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61nnXWbnYfY Enjoy and make sure to adjust the volume since your ears may break upon his enthusiasm!
The match between Zero Counterplay and Auto Correct were my favorites match so far. The casters actually did get hyped at the many plays and fights happening and in return it got me hyped.
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A warrior was played by radioactive during the final mathcup of NA qualifier! Warrior do exist! http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/26172552 It’s sad to see warrior in such a state. Crysis tried to stay true to its root… RIP the dream, he was our only representative :’(
Topic.. have they accepted the fail of the new WvW
so any statement?
The lack of statements speaks loud and clear.
Saying things like that use to be cleaver but now its way over used.
Any way WvW pop been falling way before HoT what you saw when HoT came out is a lot of ppl came back yet wvw was effectively the same game that they did not play but this time there was a lot of pve “end game” level to play. At the end of the day MMORPG are about there pve it is the main driving forces behind these games. Wvw was only big in GW2 becuse of the lack of end game pve having pve players in wvw to try to patch work an end game for them. They no longer need to do it and the pve or the “blobs” are gone from wvw.
So now ppl have something to work out do you keep playing wvw for ppt fights or not at all and turn to the “dream” year+ down the rode that may or may not work out. Its a question of do you keep RvRing or simply give up on the game type.
I find it silly that ppl make a lot of nothing and in effect rage quit into doing nothing for a year thinking there groups will last that long with out any real active rvr content. I say try to make the best out of what you have and try to move forwarded but do not give up on a game type for so long or you will find that the game type for all games will become pointless to you and others (game makers).
Sorry… but from my end PVE could burn in hell for all I care. I tried the new pve content, played it for 3 days and left it for those who likes to bash things with no human conscience. I love facing an opponent that could kill me since his movement are not programmed. I Will still try the new raid content, but I have to admit that I would prefer WvW to be in a good spot. I did take a 1 or 2 week mini break before the Xpac came out (like every gamer does when an Xpac is announced… you simply wish to be filled with energy and ready to play to your heart content).
GW2 used to be my only game for 3 years. I had 4 nights with my guild mates going around and map hoping in the borderland and fighting to our heart content. Now we have 3 nights since friday night is the new thursday (see here WvW reset on saturday now) and even those nights are now exclusively on Eternal battleground (I don’t hate the map, it’s just that Alpine Borderland was still my favorite). When there was no WvW event with the guild, me and my friends would roam in Alpine Borderland (be it ours or the ennemy). Roaming on EB was always not the best since it is where the blobs go and now Desert(ed) borderland is so empty that roaming is not an option there (unless you are patient and have hours on hand to spend looking for a fight). So I play Stronghold and do the night events with my guild, otherwise I go play some other games…
Don’t simply assume new PVE content is such a huge event for those who love facing other players (maybe for some, but not for everyone). Hell, WvW was still really active even after 3 years with the game mode barely being touched (atleast down in tier 4 NA).
To each their own playstyle. If a game dropped the towel on your playstyle, you can grind your teeth and give it a chance (like I’m currently doing), but you know that even with a player with hardened resolve, this situation won’t hold on forever, a fix will need to be brought to the table at one point in time.
Bumping.
Because I see a lot of new threads coming to life with the same content that could be found in this thread.
Swiftness would not be a bad addition. Don’t think that would be overpowered or anything, swiftness on a melee class that got no blink seems like a good thing.
Thanks for sharing opinions!
I do agree that bloodlust is the more balanced middle event there ever was on Gw2, even if we rarely had big fights around them, there were often a few little skirmishes when you saw all the nodes in your borderland being assaulted. This is why I took out the mutie-sauruses event from the things that people could accept and simply pushed it towards the thing that the WvW community dislike.
Ahah yes! I indeed posted this in multiple threads, and updated the multiple version on numerous occasions. At first I had about 3-4 points. I simply collected data from the numerous threads and as I was doing so, I figured I could simply post this here as a sum up for people to look at and comment on the global situation instead of looking up the 6-7 threads I used to finally come up with this.
As for the argument about auto upgrade. I’m a roamer at heart… Hell I’m not the one who did the upgrades on any strucutres, I probably upgraded less than 25 strucutres in all my 3 years of WvW (Shame on me, I know!). Props to those who did this job on my server. But! As a roamer, I had many fights with the people who tried to keep control over their camps/yaks in order to upgrade their structures! They would call out to their roamers from their servers in order to get me down (or me and my friend). We had many good outmanned fights because of that! Now… people don’t bother escorting yaks or defending a camp since all they do is increase the speed of the upgrade… the structure will get upgraded anyway. You can’t rotate between S, SE and NE camp to stop the upgrade at Hills and force them out (same with Bay with S, SW and NW). So in the end… people let you flip all the camps and then they will recap once you are long gone. I think auto-upgrades hurt more than just the people who loved to upgrade and prepare their server for the prime time, it also hurt the roamers…
Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts, greatly appreciated!
List of changes that seems to be welcomed from the threads I’ve read
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark. Maybe the duration of the sentry scouting players is slightly too long, small reduction of that debuff could be a good improvement (feel free to share your thoughts on that point).
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) The fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that could have potential, but in their current form they are not welcomed in WvW from what I’ve read
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… Here I think that simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so that yaks count! Yaks are useless now. This will also bring back the supply management that many defenders loved to take care of. Should I start the waypoint upgrade now or wait for the supply depot to fill up a little more in case this structure get attacked and we need the supply to defend? Spamming map chat asking for people to grab supplies elsewhere since the structure is about to get into an upgrade phase and such (maybe it did bring some unhappy moment when siege troll appeared, but the upside were well worth the downside of the change). Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
Things that I’ve read that are truly disliked in the other threads
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on).Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday night… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
(5) Guild upgrades being locked behind a PVE farm fest and high guild level of guild hall + big gold per use of the guild buffs.
(6) The new event in the Desert borderland map, at the moment it is not receiving much positive feedback. This event could of been great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point (like a capture point of pvp but scaled in size for WvW) could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environment. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. At least the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reach 0, the canon is yours. Also, a in game message should be given on all 4 maps prior to the event.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be a good way to solve the problems with the current state of WvW. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).
(edited by Phantom.5389)
Before trying to rework events, achievements and WvW rank benefits. I think WvW need to be reworked in its chore component.
List of changes that are positive from HoT
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that could be good for WvW.
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.
Things that I believe are hurting WvW the most
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on).Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be better. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).
Agreed. We need our friday night reset
Eternal battleground is a fun map for certain players, but I have to admit my favorite map always been Alpine Borderland. Desert borderland is just… I don’t know… A mix of EotM playstyle and maguma jungle looks…
I would say that bringing back Alpine Borderland and tweaking it would be the best move (while keeping Eternal battleground).
My list of changes from HoT that are pretty amazing :
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that could be decent for WvW.
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.
Things that I think are negative to WvW
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on) .Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be better. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).
(edited by Phantom.5389)
To be honest, those locations were pretty random but fun… How many time did I solo roam and get 5+ guys following me from NW camp to there… Separate them and kill them :’) Fun times!
Sadly they are gone now.
Atleast we still have EB queued up for a really long period of time now :’)
So you are saying T1 was a special case where old BL never got queued and only EB was popular even if down in T5 with a much lower population home BL was often queued and even sometimes ennemy BL (see here a server that can’t queue the 4 maps at the same time). I also know that T2 server had 4 map queued and from what I heard T1 population and T2 is basically the same.
Sorry if I have trouble believing that… (Unless you are playing on a different time zone than what your server region is, then on that case I would believe that this is simply normal. People tend to prefer to merge on a single map during those low population time zone in order to get some fights).
I do aree that simply bringing back the old map would not solve all the problems. I think some changes from the HoT expension should be kept, some could be tweaked, but some simply needs to be removed. Feel free to discuss on what you think about the changes and which should be kept and how to implement them.
List of changes that I like
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that I would like.
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.
Things that I truly do not like
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on). Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be better. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise)
(edited by Phantom.5389)
The lack of people on the new borderlands is more in the lines of this I believe (personnal opinion, feel free to give your thoughts on what you think is problematic).
List of changes that I like
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that I would like.
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.
Things that I truly do not like
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on). Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would solve the problem. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but the new map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise, so much that WvW community seems to be in the worst shape it has ever been since the 3 years of existence of this wonderful mode).
(edited by Phantom.5389)
Describe a typical hour for you in the Alpine Borderlands in the past.
-I would roam (solo or duo mostly) all around the map and fight people also running around. If I was with my friends (guild) I would fight big groups instead of roamers.
Compare your experience described above with a typical hour spent in EB
-Did not go to EB that much, unless it was with my guild to fight people there for a change of pace.
Compare your experiences described above with an hour spent in the new borderlands.
-Now I tried to roam there… takes ages to roam on an ennemy BL since everything is blocked or you need to climb and go down, zigzag around… Fights are rare also due to the large dropout of WvW players. With the guild, the same can be said.
Describe the nature of combat in the borderlands in the past. How have the new borderlands impacted this paradigm for you?
-Not so much a build change, but the new map is slow paced. Auto upgrades hurt it also. No waypoint fights anymore… Yaks are useless so roamers are not as important…
In your experience, compare the time it takes take a structure or objective here, then it did in the past.
-Before, you could use guild cata if you were solo roaming or a small crew in order to drag some fights of from the defenders sitting on their AC or make them call out for bigger numbers if you were running with a bigger group. Now fights are as rare as a jewel… even defenders seems absent nowadays…
How will the map change impact the long sessions (multiple hours) you spend in WvW?/which map you will find me
-I shifted my about 100% WvW playing time to a mix in between stronghold (which is the thing that get as close as what the old roaming was in Alpine) and EB with my friends (guild). So you will find me in EB or in stronghold. As for the total of hours… it did take a hit I would say. I play some other games now also.
(edited by Phantom.5389)
List of changes that I like
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that I would like.
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.
Things that I truly do not like
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on). Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be better. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).
(edited by Phantom.5389)
Did not quit playing WvW since the new map. I did spend more time in Eternal Battleground and in PvP than ever before (EB is a map which I did not play much since Alpine BL was my favorite one). Now EB is better than playing on a borderland in my eyes.
As for Desert Borderland… I tried roaming there, was not super exciting to run around like I was stuck in a walking simulator. I know there can be some decent fights if you are truly patient. Roaming in EB has never been as good as roaming on Alpine BL… So here I am playing stronghold (which is the thing that gets as close as to what roaming was back then). Apart from that I will raid with my guild in EB because this is where the WvW fun is at.
List of changes that I like
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that I would like.
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.
Things that I truly do not like
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on) .Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be better. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).
(edited by Phantom.5389)
List of changes that I like
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that I would like.
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.
Things that I truly do not like
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on).Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be better. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).
(edited by Phantom.5389)
List of changes that I like
(1) The new sentry detection system is great. It mades sentry more useful and allows players to not lose time going where the ennemy is not (it goes well with point 2). This new sentry was also suposed to kill yaks and get people to go flip the sentries… sadly… yaks are useless so on that part it failed to hit the mark.
(2) The map calls when a structure is taken by X server is also great. It might only be a solo roamer, but it will still improve the information network. This combined with a sentry that scouted a group of players earlier allows you to walk directly to where you think the group will be in the next few seconds.
(3) I like the fact that lord HP scales up with the number of players. It gives people a better response time to gather enough folks to get a good fight instead of getting structures flipped without a good brawl in the lord room.
Here is a list of things that needs a little tweak before being things that I would like.
(1) Auto upgrades seems awesome on paper… But I think simply making it so upgrades are forced to be in a specific order would of solved the troll problem. Make it so yaks count! Yaks are useless now. Also, waypoint on T0 keep makes WvW lose its touch. I remember when we did map calls on every map to get our people to defend our T3 keep with a waypoint. Those were fun fights in the lord room. Now? Keep flips and it doesn’t matter since we will grab it back while gaining access to the only upgrade which truly did matters as a welcome gift. Also, removing Bay and Hills waypoint on the new map just bring less fights (less incentive to actually go defend it since it will never get a waypoint).
(2) The new event in the Desert bordeland map. This event seems great and all. But I still think that a big area with a cap point could of been a better choice than to kill those PVE monsters. Imagine a large cap where there is a timer ticking down for every second your server control the point. I feel like it would be more appropriate for a players vs players environnement. King of the hills kind of tournament would of been amazing I think. Atleast the event as it is is not so fun, it’s just that those Dinos don’t really belong to WvW if you ask me (my opinion, sorry if some people love those Dinos XD). A king of the hill tournament could of been one big platform or up to 3 big platform where each platform control gives you -1 second on the total timer. Once it reachs 0 the canon is yours.
Things that I truly do not like
(1) The non players automated things in the Desert borderland map. I’m talking about those slow turrets, those flame turrets, those winds turrets and those earth walls. They are annoying more than anything. As to replace those things, I would simply take them off and get the blessing of the element when near that area (no more need to actually go and click the shrine to get the move speed boost). I would also take back the combat boost that those elemental buffs gives, environement should not give such a potent stats boost which vary depending on the region you are playing on (same with the imune to burning in fire keep). Also, invisible zergs is simply a bad concept, but I got no idea how to replace that buff without imbalacing the fights (need help finding a solution so I can edit that part later on).Finally, since earth keep have 2 automated things, (turrets and walls). I would simply give them a detector (like a sentry would if it spotted an ennemy) all over the keep so it can detect any hiding ennemies inside that keep and in the close periphery of that keep.
(2) Fortified gate… Those are new and they are slow to take down. Also guild catapults got nerfed to the ground so breaking a fortified wall takes an army or will simply take forever if you are a roaming squad. But gate is now also fortified… So it just means more time raming or catapulting those objectives…which in the end me and my roaming friends just leave them be since it’s too much of a chore.
(3) The pathing of the map seems to be worse than what Alpine borderland offered. Zigzaging and going up and down makes the map that is slightly larger to feel like walking from point A to point B to take much more time than what it used to be on Alpine borderland. Or atleast it feels less straightfoward and more about dodging the ennemy than to engage them. Those keeps are just so vast with so many pathway. Keeping it simple is not always a bad thing.
(4) Reset on saturday morning… Bring back friday night reset. This night was crazy, even more than saturday night reset. Get back from work, install yourself and play with your friends on a friday night was amazing.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
Basically, I think a tweaked Alpine would be better. Alpine had its flaws, but people still loved that map after 3 years (sure they asked some fix there and there, but a total revamp of the map doesn’t seem to get us to a better place, fixed some problems only to make new ones arise).
(edited by Phantom.5389)
Anet devs need to understand that buffing damage of a warrior does NOT help a warrior at all. It’s the bloody mechanics that doesn’t allow the warrior to fully utilize himself.
1) Very little survivability – Adrenaline nerf (rapid degen ooc) and Cleansing Ire nerf (draining adrenaline whether or not the attack is missed/block) has hit the warrior’s ability to perform consistently hard.
Solution: Undo these changes
2) Bugged physical skills – Seriously will they be ever fixed? Rush, Bull’s charge, savage leap, Eviscerate and Whirlwind attack (rarely) are the skills that comes to my mind that misses the target ~50% of the time except WW which is a rare case. Imagine if mesmer’s shatter skills missed, a guardian’s trap missed, ele’s burst skulls missed, etc. This renders the warrior completely useless in certain situations where the tides could’ve turned into the warrior’s favor.
Solution: Make Rush and BC teleports and increase the range of the other skills and fix the bugs first
3) Blind spam, evade spam, block spam of other classes – while warrior can’t do any of these lol. Blind is very powerful on a warrior, being a melee class primarily and two handers on warrior are so slow that blind spams almost neutralizes a warrior.
Solution: Nerf access to blind, blocks of ALL classes. They should be rare and should be used wisely, not just spam it. Remove sigil of energy from PvP as well
They wont just nerf every other class for warrior’s sake. They need to redesign warrior mechanics from ground up. Warriors are a class that was designed for when GW2 first released and a lot has changed since then. Nerfing everyone else to essentially revert those changes would negate the growth of the game. We cant revert the entire PvP scene, we need to update warriors to fit in the new PvP scene.
I Think I’d rather get warrior skills fixed first, maybe undo adrenaline/CI nerf and then look at how things goes for warrior with their skills actually landing.
If it still needs something else afterward, it could be addressed. But basic skills behavior fix is more important than anything else for the warrior right now.
I agree that nerfing everyone down to the level of warrior would not be the way to fix things. Slightly nerfing the problematic elite specs and slightly improving warrior with their basic skills seems a much better idea to me. After all we aim for a balanced game with the new elements from HoT beign competitive while the core profession should still be competitive. The paradise would be when the name of ‘’elite specialisation’’ doesn’t equal to beign a superior traitline, just another choice for the player to choose for his 3 traitlines build.
Stronghold is a roamer’s paradise. The NPC are just a reason (same as a circle in conquest) where the fight will take place. It’s just that the area of the battle is constantly moving and is not restricted to a small circle. Middle (supplies) is probably an equivalent to a circle in conquest, yet it is slightly bigger. It is also only there to bring people to fight in there. Same with the lord, once all the gates are down, it is the final objective and those fights are amazing. Maybe the lord gives a slight advantage to the defending team, but it’s not like the lord is truly strong. He basically only have 1 combo to look out for and that’s it.
Conquest can be fun for some people, I just unchecked conquest since I don’t like to stand on a circle or fight for a tiny little circle. I feel like the area of the fight in conquest is slightly too small for my taste.
Only thing I dislike about stronghold is the trebuchet… take that kitten thing out and the map would be better. I want players fighting other players with their skills and abilities. Not by pressing 1 and 3 to position a trebuchet and then spam 2 all day until someone get up there at that remote location in order to get that guy off from it.
This thread is interesting so I will post my thoughts on warrior situation.
Even before looking at adrenaline decay and such. I would go back to even more basic things.
-Basic skill behavior
(1) : Warrior’s gap closer need to be more accurate. As an exemple [Rush] and [Bull rush] would need to get us on our target on a near 100% basis (see here terrain bug that could be the only non-player related reason for the skill not getting us on top of an ennemy). Those skills often get us behind our target, still a few steps away from them simply because the skill failed to identify where the person was walking to (see here simply walking and not actually blinking or dodging).
(2) : Gap closer skills should land their hit on a near 100% basis. Warrior’s gap closer skill have a hard time actually landing their hit. Taking [Savage leap] as an exemple (even if the skills cited as point 1 automatically result in a problem on landing the hit since you are not where your target is). As for [Savage leap], the movement part of the skill is pretty fine, it will get you to your target, sadly the animation when the warrior land and try to hit the target will sometimes bug and the warrior will swing the sword where the ennemy is not, resulting in a miss simply because the ennemy was moving (see here simply moving and not dodging or blinking away).
(3) : Warrior’s gap closer should not be affected by minus % movement speed. Since the 23rd of june patch, warrior movement skills have been made baseline and +% movement speed doesn’t affect them anymore, so why should -% movement speed affect them? Take [Evsicerate] as an exemple. This skill will travel about 200 range only when affected by [Chill]. This behavior is also true for [Shield Bash]. Especially since chill is now even more present with the new specialisation (Reaper). [Chill] could still make the skill behave slower than intended, but the distance traveled should still be what is written, a simple spammable condition should not punish a warrior mobility to that extent. Warriors needs to get back their mobility.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Warrior-Gap-closers-need-a-fix/first#post5742338 For a more in depth analysis of what I am saying.
(edited by Phantom.5389)
Interesting, but I don’t even ask for magical blinks or anything like that to be honest. I like how warrior is actually a warrior, a war machine, a barbarian or the likes. The skills could still be charges, leaps or a combination of them. Just make them faster/more accurate!
Also another fact I could add on top of basic skills behavior would be how chill affect the range that our skill will travel while bonus movement speed no longer affect our skills….
Take [Eviscerate] as an exemple. This skill range is already pretty small and easy to dodge, yet with the new reaper elite specialization and the crazy amount of chill beign applied with everything they do…[Eviscerate] will often not even be an option when he is clearly under 600 range. Your leap will have a wierd behavior where you lift off but travel about 200 range only. So basically warriors can’t travel farther with +% movement speed but they can also get their travel distance on their skills reduced while blinks are not affected by such behavior. This is truly a problem if you ask me. Warrior are no longer hard to distance. Daredevil does a better job at that nowadays, Revenant with their [Phase travel] also does a better job. Mesmer is now also doing a better job in term of chasing ability since their blinks are also not affected by -% move speed conditions.
Maybe it is time to be consistent and make warrior mobility skills completly unaffected by plus or minus % move speed. If the skill says 1200 range, we should travel 1200 range (except if we are interupted, which I can tolerate, even if blinks don’t get affected by such a thing).
Also those skills should be able to hit an opponent who doesn’t use a dodge/block/blind/invul/interupt if he is under the range treshold, end of the line. RNJesus can influence many things, but RNJesus should not apply to such basic behavior.
(edited by Phantom.5389)
Glad I’m not the only one finding problems on warrior gap closer atleast <3
@ Choppy.4183
The mobility part of [Savage Leap] indeed seems to work correctly. Sadly, connecting the hit on the target is a completly different story. It feels like the warrior gap closers have too many sequences in comparison to every other gap closers in this game, resulting in a wierd behavior when it comes to either moving to the target or landing the hit. For [Savage leap], it is clearly a case where the hit have a hard time to connect. The target will often be right behind you as you land and the warrior will land in front or on the target while trying to reposition himself in order to land the hit resulting in many failed attempt.
As for [Whirlwind], I can’t tell. This is probably the only gap closer on warrior which behave nicely to me.
(edited by Phantom.5389)