Guild Wars 2

I’m assuming the guild that started it get’s the credit for guilds (favor) but you can still earn your individual reward (the chest thing from the twitch show >_<) for completing it with them. Not 100% but that seems the way it was described on the guild chat show.

Honestly, if it is a WvW guild and he has no interest in the new specializations there is almost no reason to get the expansion. Same goes for PvP guilds also.

Another possible counter is the new tower upgrade that shows enemies on the map. If this works the same as the EotM sentry things I believe it shows invisible players (not on screen but on map/mini-map). Upgrading a tower to that upgrade is easier than upgrading SM to the invisible fountain.

Also @Puck and @Vendetta your sarcastic comments won’t accomplish anything but making you look immature, and defiantly won’t make ArenaNet consider your opinions any more important if anything less important.

BDave.9386:

My understanding is that you could only get “mastery xp” if you were in the beta content, which happened to not include anything other than Verdant Brink and a bit of the Silverwastes. In general, though, you can only progress towards a mastery if you’re in the right area for it. No amount of running around Kessex Hills will help you train bouncing mushrooms, for instance.

Ok so is it specific to certain Masteries and where you can use them you can earn them? I know there are some Masteries that can get used outside of the new maps like the mentoring and auto loot. Just seems weird that players are kinda ‘forced’ into go out to PvE to ‘level’ in the expansion when the original game was all about do what you like and you will get levels for it however I can understand if that is how they prevent non-HoT purchasers from getting mastery.

I honestly think this is a step in the right direction. Right now the hardest to hold objective doesn’t feel powerful. All is provides is a few more points per tick and a waypoint (which is nice). I think they want SM to be a ‘power play’ objective meaning that controlling it (for an extended amount of time) gives your server a large advantage. Meaning servers won’t just flip it back and forth there will be some super important battles for the control of the ‘largest’ objective in the game. Also as people have pointed out there are several mechanics to reveal stealthed players most notably the reveal trap unique to WvW.

The only reason I think they should be there is so that we can have a jumping puzzle pvp zone, I specifically asked if there would be ones in the new maps to see if there would be some different landscape. It’s super easy when roaming with a small group to ditch another group if needed in the jumping zones in each map as most won’t follow you in there. This makes it a safe haven for players that are comfortable fighting in a jumping puzzle. I don’t think it is something required in the WvW maps so I won’t be ‘disappointed’ if there isn’t one. I think how they made the OS a separate map was a good move for a pvp jumping puzzle.

So playing the beta this weekend I noticed that you only get progress towards mastery when out in the new maps. First is this intended functionality, and second if so why is it that way?

Is there any plan for a ‘repeatable’ mastery that maybe gives rewards? For example, maybe there is a mastery that when you complete a ‘level’ you gain 100 karma (numbers to be balanced). Their could be a few like this giving different rewards like laurels, gold, other currency and maybe even holiday/event items. This would allow players to choose what they like/need and it would make gaining experience feel important even after they have reached max level/mastery(which I have always liked about Guild Wars 2).

Overall I like the idea of mastery and look forward to earning them all when Heart of Thorns comes out in just a few weeks.

Yea, push release back another month so we can do another beta weekend, way better then having the full expansion.

I think the 2 month requirement seems worse than it is. I can imagine lots of guilds, yes even the GvG only ones, will want to explore the new maps, content, specializations. Also that two months will go by quicker then the 3 weeks we have left till HoT launch. Also good to hear they know the arena seems small and they plan to make a bigger one for larger battles (most-likely it’s own map).

So a lot of people mentioned WoW for comparison. Did anyone forget that WoW raids start hardcore and get ‘easier’ and ‘easier options’ (LFR) as time passes. Maybe ArenaNet plans to do similar. Make it hardcore only for the first x number of months then open up an easier mode. Given the past history, if people want it to happen, ArenaNet tend to make it happen.

Blaine Tog.8304:

If a patch comes and something is overnerfed or overbuffed, it’s going to be a problem for a very long time, and if a problematic skill is skipped, then it’s going to be a really long time before there’s another chance of the problem being addressed.

Unless it’s Ranger then it get’s ‘fixed’ in a hot fix 2 days later -_-

Holland.9351:

It’s not about the nerf. I think it needed it too. It’s because of how they handled it and how hard they nerfed it and how quickly.

This, it’s not like it was even that strong. There was counterplay, and some glaring problems with the builds that could do the stronger dps like a true glass cannon. I agree it was a bit strong but releasing a hotfix? How come pu mesmer lasted so long with a clearly ‘strong’ ability that finally got nerfed Tuesday? It’s like ok ranger’s get a few weeks of glory because someone didn’t test things properly, but no Rangers don’t get to be strong for a few weeks only other classes.

Mishi.7058:

Sorry but many times guilds claim places like Garrison/Home EBG keep, and bother to not run a single buff or fight to defend, yet the structures do not change as often as others, so it’d falsely put guilds into “lead”.

That’s why it would ideally track the number of attacks on it and it would weight different objectives based on their ‘difficulty’ to hold.

I understand it would’t be perfect but there was already a suggestion to drop guild rep from objectives when no guild members on on the map (I think they are doing something like this but just with changing the upgrade slots). So guilds would only get ‘points’ while they had at least one on the map. Some times a good defense is to play offensive.

My way of describing it may not be perfect and may not be they best way to determine the ‘best’ guild in WvW but I’m more interested in weather people think this would be something work ArenaNet or a site like mos millenium, looking into in the future.

Dawntree.7246:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

The info about the sub squads working like parties isn’t written anywhere it was said very quick in one of the live streams.

I’m just curious if we will be able to move ourselves into subgroups instead of making the commander do all the work :P

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3murg1/introducing_enhanced_squad_ui/cvi9xil?context=3

(funny to link a reddit reply for an official source…)

I mean official on their site via a new article or forum post, now that is fixed though thanks to above (I don’t check reddit much)

The info about the sub squads working like parties isn’t written anywhere it was said very quick in one of the live streams.

I’m just curious if we will be able to move ourselves into subgroups instead of making the commander do all the work :P

The guild wars 2 twitch page is www.twitch.tv/guildwars2 but there isn’t a test going on currently.

I wonder what this can entail? Something simple like hold any objective for x amount of time or more specific like take Redbriar and hold it for x amount of time (1.5 hour time limit). Either way I’m excited that there will be a way to make WvW have a ‘more’ meaningful effect from time to time. Also I hope it shows nearby enemies when a guild is trying to complete one so that you can rally your server to stop them. :P

So with the expansion guild calming will become more significant and I was thinking. What if there was a leaderboard tied to this idea of guild claiming? For example you could track stats like how long objectives are held once claimed (average, highest, lowest). You could track how many attacks get repelled. And factor them into a score that would somehow weight the score based on the type of objective held so that holding a camp longer might be worth more than a keep that is harder to flip.

I’m not 100% sure what the current or new API will allow but this might even be a possible thing to do using the API instead of hoping AreanaNet will make it. I know people have always wanting a more ‘meaningful’ leaderboard for WvW and this might be a good way to go about it while promoting the core of WvW that is to capture and hold objectives.

Any thoughts on this idea?

Another ability to prevent projectiles form being effective and in fact being harmful to use. I love to use the longbow on the ranger but with all these new abilities that will basically make my projectiles more useful for the opponent I am fighting I’m not sure I will be able to continue to use it

RIP projectiles (especially in WvW)
Here is to hoping that something get’s done to help projectiles.

Interesting read, as most people want to be able to see the targets I feel this change wouldn’t be that bad. Now when you say uncounterable counter I have to step in a note that if you look at all the cool down on these abilities and their duration there is a big window for attack (other than the engineer’kitten them while in stealth not sure the internal cooldown on that but it isn’t short) Also ‘most’ of these abilities require the other player to not be in stealth because you need to have the target selected to cast it meaning you can ‘bait’ out the ability by making it look like you are going in just to stay out and wait for revealed to wear off. I’m not saying this change is’t a good idea just that most of the revealed abilities have couterplay to them.

keenlam.4753:

@Pink Ninja Man: unblockable will bypass reflect. This is a well-known fact in PvP. However, in PvE there are bosses that can “block” anything, just some very few exceptions.

Oh, thanks I didn’t know that. I haven’t played much warrior to try out the ability but I knew it existed.

@Lycian Ollopa does unblockable work though reflects as well? I though it only worked for block specifically and would do nothing against reflect. Yea Druid probably isn’t the best place for it since it is more necessary for longbow and most likely won’t be too important for staff. The change to opening strike would be a good place to start. Also another thing to point about about the idea of playing smart vs reflect. If you launch a projectile at a foe they have the time to enable their reflect before it hits them (the projectile increase on longbow helps to prevent this) meaning that simple things such as stop attacking is only so effective, in some cases it forces a dodge out of you (admittedly it forces some cd on their part too).

I think the real problem is that you are comparing getting rewards to farming silver-wastes. There is no other area of the game that comes close to silver-wastes not even other pve it’s a bad thing to compare to because it is just much higher than anything else. Compare it to dungeons and world bosses or other pve maps and you are fairly close. Also you should be happy, when GW2 came out things were much worse for sPvP, no gold at all for playing matches, no reward tracks just skins that you could only use in sPvP.

@Justine That would be another cool way to do it although maybe it would need some sort of cooldown because in some game modes you can get to 100% crit and I don’t think permanent reflect penetration is good, that would be too strong.

@ITheNormalPerson There are other methods to counter-playing ranged combat such as: closing the gap, using blocks, using invulnerability, line of sight. It’s not like this is the only way to counter ranged play, and I don’t think allowing ranger to have 5 attacks that can ‘penetrate’ reflects will cause reflects to become useless. For instance ranger wouldn’t even be able to get an entire rapid fire off with just 5 penetrating projectiles.

Edit: Also you can say that blocking is a counter to melee damage(ranged aswell) so warriors shouldn’t be able to attack through blocks because it’s a form of counter play. I also do want just a warrior can do it so why can’t rangers. It’s similar but more unique to ranger since they tend to be more ranged projectile based.

@Bryzy I think they can only reflect one time, the second time they are destroyed because I have never seen a ‘super projectile’ in WvW when 5 guardian reflect walls go down and projectiles go all over.

@Justine I didn’t say the trait is necessary, and I understand how to avoid hitting myself with reflect and that I can use my other weapon (normal not another ranged weapon). I just think it would be a nice ability for rangers. The warrior can wait to use abilities when someone blocks but has the utility to go through blocks.

People satisfied with the game are too busy playing and enjoying the game while the dissatisfied ‘players’ come to the forum to ‘change’ things to make the game more enjoyable. That is why you seem more ‘dissatisfied’ posts than satisfied ones. I do agree the ‘attitude’ of the dissatisfied posts could and should be better.

(before all the satisfied players say they exists, I know you do I’m just saying there is a larger population of dissatisfied people on the forums)

Shaogin.2679:

Not going to happen. Besides, druid will be using staff, so doubt it will have any focus at all on projectile traits

The will be using staff ranged not melee right? I think every ranged weapon in the game has at least one attack on it that is projectile based. Not saying that means it should have a projectile focus. I just think it would be a nice trait to have, I don’t see why warriors can have a trait that goes though blocks (blocks affect melee and they are heavy melee hitters) and rangers can have one that goes though reflects.

Yes I would agree it is hard to move up and some of the differences in-between Tiers is a little high but look at the server rankings from a more general perspective. In general the higher tiers are ‘better’ (more coverage) then the lower tiers. I think that is the whole point of Glicko scores. The random +- 100 is because people wanted to have match-ups mixed up a bit, because Glicko ratings had settled down and all servers were ranked according to their ‘skill’. Take a look at yaks bend, they managed to climb to T1 and they seem to be on the low end of T1 ‘skill’ so even though it took a couple of months they managed to climb into T1 where their ‘skill’ (coverage) lines up with. I would agree for a server to move up it is promoting complete domination of other servers but that could be more of a problem with how large the ‘skill’ (population) imbalance is between servers in different Tiers.

Overall I would say Gliko is working.

… hopefully druid as an ability to shoot projectiles threw reflects. Maybe a utility spell similar to the warrior one that makes 5 attacks unblock-able. The way I see it, longbow is and probably always will be one of the favored weapons for the ranger and it’s biggest counter is reflect. All of the longbow’s abilities except 5 can get reflected. With the longbow being such a core weapon many classes can easily counter the Ranger by simply having a reflect ability or utility. Part of the rangers ‘unique identity’ is being good and damaging from range, having the ability to shoot through reflect for a small window would help with this identity. Yes I understand you can stop attacking when reflect is up, I don’t think this is a needed change it would just be a nice unique ability. If it seems strong maybe still allow the projectile to be reflected to the ranger but have the projectile still go threw towards it’s target (making the ranger have to take damage to get through the reflect still).

What are your thoughts on this?

One Prarie Outpost.4860:

Should be easy – If you can’t – an an Ele or Ranger, pull back on your camera and hit the ground on the other side of a keep/tower wall with Barrage or Meteor Shower, then you should use the same code logic for the AC.
Seems pretty straight forward (sorry for the pun).

Just think about defending… Where do you have to stand to hit anywhere outside the tower? You think an arrow-cart will last on the front edge of a wall long? Now if ArenaNet tweaked how AoE LoS worked for players so that defenders can AoE below the walls better, this would be an easy and good solution in my opinion.

Xeno.4610:

So the worst servers shall always be low, and best always high.

This would have server ‘game’ the system by dropping rank to get more players on, then once they have way more players than other servers they would rise to dominate every other server.

Population is a more ‘fair’ way of limiting rather than score because then player skill is much more meaningful. If both server have same population but one uses it better they should be able to beat the other server. The other server shouldn’t get a ‘handicap’ that is cheaper transfers to boost population for ‘easier’ wins against a less populated higher skilled server.

That being said, the current system can probably be ‘gamed’ and most likely will be at some point. Not sure there is one ‘perfect’ solution to this problem.

Diku.2546:

Very good idea. Actually provides a way for hard core WvW players to get Ascended gear without having to go farm in PvE.

Only thing I would add to this suggestion is:

EotM Map implemented without WvW Rewards (i.e. Badges of Honor, WXP, WvW Achievements, Ascended Equipment, etc.)

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That way the Badges of Honor really reward players that actually participate in WvW fighting…and not the Karma Trains that run through EotM.

Downside…can’t really determine which Current Badges of Honor were earned in WvW Borderlands/Eternal Battle Maps vs. EotM Map…so if this is done…EotM players will gain a huge bonus.

Unfortunately you get more badges of honor K-Traning in EotM because of the bonus chests. So I think it would only promote that map more, also that makes tournament rewards not as valuable (of coarse we need to have tournaments so we can get them).

I think they have said they will never merger servers for the reasoning of letting servers keep their identity. I think they have already done the major changes to population that they plan on doing for now (new population for server transfers). I think they are more looking to find ways to pull more people in to WvW and make the stability (remove server lag) better.

There are a lot of players that spend a fair amount of time in WvW that are ‘taking a break’ until HoT release. I would think you can expect to see population levels on all servers go up a noticable amount when HoT comes out, however don’t expect this to ‘fix’ all the problems in fact it might make more (since some server may gain more or less players creating population in-balances)

Good news is they have said they are aware of problems with WvW and they plan to focus on it after HoT release. You can already see some work getting put in for the WvW section of the game. Hopefully they continue to show support for the game mode after launch as they stated they would.

I solo roam all the time, I’ll admit I understand what you are saying lots of people run in small groups now but you can still find the solo players out in the world. Also solo players can still capture camps and sentrys (shrines in the new map) or defend one vs 3 or 4 players.

Random.4691:

You’re forgetting a major point, Beta testing was a selling point of the pre-purchase. I don’t know if they would have had the pre-sales they do now if they hadn’t offered it.

You also need to realize players are always the best testers, we find things that the Devs wouldn’t and would never have thought of. We determine the metas and the combo’s that in some cases make classes OP, usually its a combination of skills or abilities that Devs may have over looked. Dev’s also need to work, they can’t play all day and not do their work, they depend on us whether it is beta or not to give feedback so they can fix the things otherwise missed by them.

Complaining is part of the industry, it’s the same in any industry that has consumers, you’re always going to have a portion of people that are unhappy for one reason or another. Sometimes those complaints are 100% valid, some are not.

TLDR;
You say we should be thankful, no, we paid for the option to beta test, they should be thankful that we do test and we do give feedback, without the players feedback every MMO out there would be a complete mess. If you’re sick of reading the complaints, don’t read them.

You paid to beta test, they never promised equal testing time of all classes. They are thankfull we do the test, if you have be following the feedback forum threads they thank all the time for good feedback and suggestions. ‘Complaining is part of the industry’ why? I’m glad you believe the best use of the forum is to just keep on posting complaint threads, then people complain about devs not responding and reading threads… Kinda of cause and effect, if you look at the ‘prroper’ threads they often get dev attention and responses.

Bryzy.2719:

Poorly argued.

Let’s try arguing from the facts.

The fact is, the players are doing ArenaNet a service by playing BWEs.

The fact is, beta testing is a standard and integral part of any MMO development. Without it the developer is lacking the combined tens of thousands of hours’ worth of gameplay feedback that players provide.

The fact is, you pay for a finished product but do the developer a favour by trialing the unfinished version without prejudice.

The fact is, the Druid will have its abilities revealed last and will have the joint least amount of test time along with the Forge. Regardless of ‘fairness’, the fact is that Druid is at a disadvantage to other professions.

The fact is that Druid is being built upon the most broken profession in the game, and therefore this exacerbates the negatives that derive from the above fact.

You baseless-ly accuse people of being “silly” for expressing their concern and opinion, but it is concern based upon the above facts, and concerns based upon facts are reasonable. So there.

Yes the players are doing a favor to ArenaNet, and it turn they are allowing the players to help shape the future of the game they play. I would say a favor in return.

Many mmo’s and other games have launched withough betas and done just fine. Also you act like this beta will make everthing ballanced and they game wont go under many more changes and ballancing going forward.

You make it sound like participating in a beta is work and people don’t want to do it. Most people playing the beta are enjoying themselves.

I don’t believe it is a fact that ranger is the most broken profession in the game, that is an opinion.

Can we cut it out with all the complaints about fairness. In all honestly I kinda hope ArenaNet takes note of this and dosen’t allow for any beta testing next expansion. People should be thankful that they get a chance to test the expansion contend and have an opinion. They could be more ‘fair’ and just give us no beta weekends and no specializations until release.

In all honesty I do not hope they do a beta in the next expansion because I think it is health for the game and makes the long time form announcement to release go by faster.

I am a Ranger main and I think all this whining about ‘unfairness’ is just downright silly and should stop. If you don’t have something nice/useful to say don’t say it.

Dano.5298:

This sounds promising. Now, when you say out in the open, it kinda sounds like just another opportunity to zerg. Why exactly would it encourage reasonable size groups to fight without siege?

From what I can tell, it’s a fairly large zone and the ‘objectives’ are scattered around the area. You can still bring a zerg but might have to split up to be efficient. I suppose siege can get used anywhere but when there isn’t a wall protecting it you can either push it and destroy it or run away and out range it.

Kjeld.9730:

After the Swoop ‘fix’ the double finisher turned into 1 finisher but it’s on the leap and not the dash (from the middle until the end of the animation)

Hate to be that guy but, it’s called a leap finisher not a dash finisher =/. Yea it’s kinda of a pain to use but it is what it is.

Steelo.4597:

i kinda agree with OP, wvw was better in 2012 then now.

roaming is ruined by stealth / confusion
siege wars ruined by changes to rams / ACs / removal of projectile blocks
level playing field – ruined by power creep through wvw masteries, food, ascended
zerg fights ruined by changes to aoe cap, stability
scouting ruined by 25 for orange swords / OP rams

about the only thing thats better now is the lag and the siege timers.. oh and the grey names of dead people…. besides that – wvw got constantly worse.

Stealth and confusion has always been a thing in WvW roaming, also roaming isn’t dead the classes used for it has changed and will probably change again.

AC are getting a tweak that just came out today to help with their line of sight being more restrictive so (hopefully) you can hit an entire tower with one ac outside the wall.

WvW was never designed to be a level playing field, sPvP is for that. One could complain that Ascended gear is an unfair advantage like food, but everyone can get it and use it.

I think that Arena net has always wanted to break the zerg ‘meta’ in WvW. However, zerging is still super popular and AoE’s are still the primary source of damage. Stability got changed to have more play to it. I can’t say weather this helped or hurt WvW as I normally only fight in the back line or in smaller skirmishes.

Scouting didn’t get ruined people just got tired of doing it with no rewards, orange swords haven’t changed since launch unless I missed that one. Rams also aren’t op if scout uses siege disabler on them.

The lag seems to be up and down at times, still see that people are having issues with it. They have changed the map cap up and down a few times and when it was lowered a bit the lag got a bit better.

I don’t feel that much has changed with WvW you still see the same kind of groups running around the composition may have changed but that is more because class changes. Scouting is the only thing much different and it is mostly gone now. New map brings some features to have a sort of ‘auto’ scout and some objectives and sentries. Also I think the base health of walls and doors was increased to help with the ‘OP’ rams.

kolompi.1287:

You could have asked someone who already had it to showcase it for you

Or checked the Wiki, which was most likely done given it takes a lot to farm it you probably what to know what you are getting. >_<

Chaba.5410:

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

The do have an event that is out in the middle that has a major effect on PPT. It’s has some PvE mobs to it but it sounds like what you are looking for. Something that will convince players to come away from the objectives and fight in the open.

I’d like to see that event run more often than it did during the last beta.

I think it is set to a 3 hour cycle, not sure if each map is on the same cycle or if they are offset so that there is one of these events every hour (would be nice but also could cause balance issues, not that WvW is designed to be balanced).

If they run the event more often it will be less ‘crowded’. This is because it not as unique of an event. Its like saying they dredge, ogers, and hylek in EBG will have big fights over them (yes their effects are much less). Basically the more ‘rare’ and event the more participation you can expect from the playerbase. Take the living world events that often take place in GW2 (if you venture outside of WvW) they are always packed and it feels like everyone is doing them, why? They are only around for a limited time making them one of the most rare events in the game. 3 hours is a good place for these events to stay somewhat ‘rare’ but still be withing a reasonable amount of time so that players can get to one during the time they play.

Also given the effects of the event it running often would make doors broken all the time, and we all saw how people handled the Golem event when walls and doors basically didn’t exist. They also shouldn’t tone down the power of the even or it will be less desirable aswell.

TL;DR
To get the most players to participate the event needs to be ‘rare’ and rewarding, however rewards shouldn’t break down the core of WvW.

Update today:

World vs. World
Altered arrow cart line-of-sight checks to be more restrictive.

Gaile Gray.6029:

We will announce the results of the contest by Tuesday, September 15, right here in this very forum thread.

Any updates? It happens to be Tuesday the 15th. The sooner the better so I can ask of work if I win.

There are bugs in the current WvW? Can you elaborate?

Also I’m looking forward to the new maps, sorry if it isn’t to your liking. I believe that a lot of the WvW community would be upset if we didn’t get anything ‘new’ with the expansion.

They were actually considering implementing this at launch. In fact for the first beta event with WvW both map chat and team chat was global to all 3 servers. Originally map chat was supposed to be cross server and team just for you individual server (like in sPvP) however they scraped the idea most likely because of the suggestion above.

I think that change is happening to all objectives in the expansion. Also cost for upgrading will be gone so you don’t have to feel like you are ‘wasting’ gold trying to upgrade something that is hard to defend.

Schurge.5194:

it made pre-made 5-mans incapable of performing their job of zerg stomping…

I don’t think it’s the ‘job’ of 5-man premades to stop zergs. I can see premades taking on larger groups than themselves, but not 5 man killing zerg (50+). In fact the down state helps premade groups out because of the required teamplay for it. If you get someone to down, make sure you AoE and cleave them while having one player use invuln, stealth, stability to stop them. In the case one of yours goes down, get on them and pick them up quickly. Unorganized groups just kinda run around and spam one, they don’t focus downed, and they don’t pick up allies (they do sometimes but not as effectivly as a premade group).

If you are concerned with the fighting larger organized groups and they keep picking people up. Try to focus the same people down, eventually they won’t receive a down state and will just die instantly. I think it takes about 4 or 5 downs, each time they get less health in down state so it’s easier to cleave them down.

The rallying off of random mobs is being tweaked so that the mob has to be a veteran or higher (I believe) for players to rally.

The do have an event that is out in the middle that has a major effect on PPT. It’s has some PvE mobs to it but it sounds like what you are looking for. Something that will convince players to come away from the objectives and fight in the open.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

The problem isn’t when it will be released, the problem is that it’s going to get far, far less time to be balanced and have its problems corrected. Professions that are in a good place are getting two or three weekends to test out their elite specializations and provide feedback, while rangers (who have probably been overall in the worst spot of any profession continuously since launch) and engineers will be lucky to get one.

The game is constantly getting changed and re-balanced. Even if all elite spec came out when the first beta weekend event occurred they would not be in their ‘final’ state. In fact they never will be because GW2 is constantly changing and different classes and specs come and go from power. Remember spirit ranger? Most of the elite specs have been relative fine balance wise and just needed some tweaking to get them to where the dev’s want them. There will be plenty of time between the last beta weekend and launch for this tweaking to occur and tweaking for all elite specs and regular specs will continue to happen after launch. Some how we survived launch of this game with very limited testing. Only about 3 or 4 beta weekends if I remember. Look how far we have come since then, it will be similar with the launch of HoT.

They can ask all they like, nothing is stopping you from playing what you want to play, and nothing is stopping you from following the group around. I think it’s fine if the server politely asks for more of a class if it feels it will help. Some players do play multiple classes and don’t mind switching if the group is low on a particular class.