You know I give up assuming anyone has skill to counter zerg on forums so logic won’t remove the q.q
Your logic that there’s no 60 man coordinated zergs isn’t much better. If 20-30 people can be highly coordinated, why can’t 60? This isn’t a skill issue so much as a mechanics issue. It will always, regardless of skill levels in any way, dictate that >x number of Super Godlike Players will beat x number of Super Godlike Players.
Many people have stopped playing this game because these mechanics are a soft cap on potential. It would be in anet’s best interest to lessen or remove soft caps to appeal to what is most likely to be their biggest draw long term.
Downed isn’t the problem anyway, AoE cap is. If there’s nobody to raise downed people because they all got AoE’d, downed isn’t really a problem, is it…
As for zergs being effective, this won’t change. 2>1, 20>10, 200>100…
I don’t mind either change, but the downed state removal in WvW is a simpler and more elegant solution. It would remove exponential scaling with numbers which is a larger problem than one side getting more out of the AoE cap.
The primary reason being that if they removed AoE cap, they would need to balance change quite a bit, and the maps themselves don’t support the change. Short of a skill/map overhaul it would lead to more issues down the road when exploiting it became common knowledge.
If I had to choose between 1 mechanic change that solves 70% of a problem or 1 mechanic change that solves 30% of the problem, requires rebalancing, and requires map overhauls, I’ll take the first option.
Also, if you think downed state isn’t a problem on promoting higher numbers, you don’t actually understand how the mechanic scales in terms of finishing/ressing.
Doubt downed will ever be removed to integrated in cuzo pve and lack of other res forms
I don’t think it’s impossible that a completely separated game mode has different mechanics. Sort of like that Spvp thing!
downed state is a much larger issue than aoe capping
the nature of the downed state system makes higher numbers exponentially more effective
not that aoe caps isn’t also a reason, but the downed state would be a more effective change
downed state, aoe cap
Didn’t WM get stuck at tier 2 with you guys and rage quit to another server?
If you think WM was hard to play against, you either didn’t know what you were doing or you didn’t play against them. Please stop trying those stale tactics against us. It’s boring.
I mean this in the nicest possible way….. but shouldn’t you be dominating every guild in T3 if you found WM so easy?
And yes I said I don’t particularly like WM or what they did, I’m just interested in how my post about facing a more challenging servers and guilds next week got the immediate response ‘lolp no problem for mags, 2highskill’.
Surely there is some T2 or T1 guild you guys respect as being better than you?
You’re assuming that anyone rated them as high as you do. I haven’t seen a good guild ever say they were hard to fight. Their style is for lawnmowering pugs, and not much else. Even if the lawnmower department, there’s guilds that do it much better.
Change their guild name to something that had zero meaning before GW2, and they would be completely forgettable.
If you are as good as you believe yourselves to be, the Tier 1 servers have scouts that will approach your guild and offer to pay all the gem transfer costs.
The reason you are not aware is because these scouts have not approached your guild with this offer.
Sol you’re a precious shining baby.
Considering that WM attracted guilds to Kaineng to bring us from T8 to T2 and Magumma being a persistent T3 despite SO MANY CLAIMS of guilds beating them and claiming to be better … the facts does not match.
(1) All the uber guilds of Magumma could not bring the server up from T3.
(2) Every week, the said guilds struggle in the matchup against a weakened Kaineng.
(3) WM is welcomed by any T1 server and they would pay all the gems they want to join their server, how many guilds in Magumma are so desired ?
(4) WM is fighting in Tier 1 against the most skilled and proven guilds / commanders in GW2, the said guilds are still languishing here in Magumma.
I’m too poor to transfer to the illustrious t1, where 100% of skilled played reside. Please send me 50 gold so I can fulfill my dream of rubbing elbows with The Elite Poopsockers.
T1 isn’t an increase in skill. It’s an increase in numbers.
I don’t really remember many of the guilds we’ve fought, so I can’t really point to a lot of specific examples, but do you know how odd it was to find out how easy it was to beat WM after all that hype? They were a T1 skill level guild back on their way up, right? The guild that was fairly easy to beat if you just refused to stand in front of them? XF and WvW need to realize how bad of an idea it is to still be playing like baby warmachines. The best thing WM did was abuse culling. Stacking might and trying to magically appear inside the enemy group is an outdated tactic that just looks silly now.
I’m afraid I must disagree with almost everything you have said. For sure the numbers in T1 and T2 are larger, but there are guilds in there that have co-ordination and individual skill you just don’t find in this tier.
I seriously doubt you ever fought against the true WM if that is the way you talk of them. The true WM ran in a group of about 10-15 and would crush through 30-40 man zergs of any guild (even HB)The WM you are remembering was likely just a pub zerg lead by Jang, which is actually what he spent most of his time doing.
I’m really not a fan of them after what they did to this server, but I’ve got to defend how good they were.
In fact the best thing WM did was take a T8 server and teach scrubs like me how to WvW.I would tell you how not amazing WM was, and how much multiple guilds wiped them easily from Mag, but talking back about them is an automatic infraction on these forums.
It’s a good thing their leadership forbid them from doing gvg or duels, because there would be a lot of unfortunate videos.
Are you seriously suggesting dorp would win a gvg against WM?
Am I getting trolled?
I mean you guys are a great guild… but come on…
WM to my knowledge hasn’t beaten any competent guild on any server even numbers. Forget DORP, we wiped them with public mumble guys led by razi one night until they left the borderlands. PYRO wiped then, EVOH wiped them back when invalid played, NOVA wiped them.
Mag is a really close-knit community, and there was a lot of disappointment when KN stopped by t3 on their way up. We really hoped to learn a lot, but instead we got a guild living on name recognition from an older game.
T1 isn’t an increase in skill. It’s an increase in numbers.
I don’t really remember many of the guilds we’ve fought, so I can’t really point to a lot of specific examples, but do you know how odd it was to find out how easy it was to beat WM after all that hype? They were a T1 skill level guild back on their way up, right? The guild that was fairly easy to beat if you just refused to stand in front of them? XF and WvW need to realize how bad of an idea it is to still be playing like baby warmachines. The best thing WM did was abuse culling. Stacking might and trying to magically appear inside the enemy group is an outdated tactic that just looks silly now.
I’m afraid I must disagree with almost everything you have said. For sure the numbers in T1 and T2 are larger, but there are guilds in there that have co-ordination and individual skill you just don’t find in this tier.
I seriously doubt you ever fought against the true WM if that is the way you talk of them. The true WM ran in a group of about 10-15 and would crush through 30-40 man zergs of any guild (even HB)The WM you are remembering was likely just a pub zerg lead by Jang, which is actually what he spent most of his time doing.
I’m really not a fan of them after what they did to this server, but I’ve got to defend how good they were.
In fact the best thing WM did was take a T8 server and teach scrubs like me how to WvW.
I would tell you how not amazing WM was, and how much multiple guilds wiped them easily from Mag, but talking back about them is an automatic infraction on these forums.
It’s a good thing their leadership forbid them from doing gvg or duels, because there would be a lot of unfortunate videos.
Well Kaineng just took SMC from Yak’s…oops!
The armistice doesn’t kick in until Sunday anyways, if Yak’s accept. No rules has been broken.
That’s good. Since we all know every player from Kaineng and Yak’s reads these threads, I’m sure this 2v1 will go well.
That means that they either is moving, or they are seriously thinking about it.
Or that you are being massively trolled.
Why would three tier 1 guilds troll me? It was them that said PYRO is moving in last week’s tier 1 thread. I didn’t even post in that thread, just reading.
The PYRO leader, Parara, is a known deviant.
Probably Mag. It seems like every other server has received/lost significant transfers to push their ranking up/down. Mag is just Mag. Same faces every week all week, and changes in score are mostly determined by changes on other servers.
“Y U NO MENTION EU!?!!?111?questionmark!!!”
Because nobody cares about EU.
Lol@mag is mag
Refer to Week 52-03. That’s called massive transfers.
That spike was from randoms transfering and fairweathers needing completion after months of never having the chance. Within a month those faces weren’t seen again. We knew we’d hit t3 and when we faced actual resistance (and we did, FA was still there after gobblign up IoJ) the numbers would plummet to normal.
We only deliberately asked 1 guild to transfer from BP, who is still with us and one of the pillars of the server. Way before that spike we deliberately got a couple more guild transfers from Ebay. Since then, we haven’t changed.
R.I.P. Invalid Password
May he raise from the grave one day.
Enough chest-thumping. I respect kitten a lot. They are really well coordinated and will do really well even in T2-T1 servers. Looking forward on facing you guys again tonight and I hope we decide to avoid EB tonight lol.
I hope we never go to t2. I’m thinking about starting an FA recruitment post.
OG vs CAMP jumping puzzle race across tyria.
I frequently see people boasting about wiping Maguuma in Eternal, which is fine, because nobody really goes into eternal for organized guild raids. Most of the people in eternal are goofing around or karma training (at least on mag.)
But IF you want to anger Maguuma/ actually boast about wiping Maguuma, you’ll have to do it in a borderland. Otherwise it’s easy for us to shrug off the fact that you were in EB, where we have very little coordination.
We have little to no coordination in EB because your guild (and many others) run from it as if it was the plague. Who do you think is going to pick up the slack in EB now that Zero is gone?
My guess is no one.
That is a problem the whole server needs to work towards fixing.
People like playing on Mag because we don’t tell people where to go and get real rigid about it, and we aren’t going to start now. If people dislike the map, which is a pretty common thing, then they shouldn’t play it.
I’m glad RE is bringing tier 2 tactics to our humble, family oriented server. Hopefully Mag can learn to appreciate the 50 man zerg busting tactics required to succeed in the harsh land of Tyria. God Bless.
i dont wanna poop in my own bed, but guild CAMP probably has highest skill/member ratio
Is CAMP nervous about EBG relocating?
Yak’s should start a recruitment thread for euro timezone!
NA Mags should get some employment
That’s not going to happen, so yaks should get some people for us to play with while we are unemployed welfare moms thanks.
Yak’s should start a recruitment thread for euro timezone!
Hey last I saw we are doing better than last week, and theres hardly a huge gap between all 3 of us, which is good. So dont scoff oh ye mags at how we do things, its clearly working, and we dont have the coverage you do so with that in mind its working very well indeed.
Aren’t you doing worse than last week if we compare last sunday to this sunday? Mag came out of the weekend down like 15k in third place…
The wrong way to approach this. Sub-80’s only hurt for the rally game. The solution is that the rally game is stupid and should be removed.
I shouldn’t cringe when I’m fighting with a low level because he’ll be rally bait. The game is making exclusivity with this mechanic.
Here is the fix for AC’s
Leave the damage alone.
Make it so AC’s cannot damage siege.
Done. Now Ac’s can’t kill trebs on walls or catas or balis. They can kill the people manning those things though…
Or just revert the 80% change and keep the trait bonuses. Carts were already very good before this change.
The siege cost, siege damage, range are really ill thought if balancing siege is the goal. Why can carts completely nullify catapults, at a lower siege and badge/gold cost? If someone drops 2 carts (60 supply, 12 badges) you need to drop 100 supply and 24 badges. The geography is already a defender’s advantage, and carts/ballistas were already a huge deterrent to charging a keep choke.
I just want to hear the reasoning on why Anet wanted WvW to become extremely slow and tedious. There’s more interest in guild vs guild in WvW than there is in the ESPORTS of Spvp, so why are we actively killing the one people like and promoting the other?
Have a thread. Will Yak’s Bend finally take second place? Who knows!
hey, you happen to know an asura guardian in your clan? floppy ears… he instant rallied after dying around no mobs and with full health…. was…. odd (IM IMPLYING SOMETHING).
also you should setup a fight night.
also you have soft lips
:O
he must have leveled up from tower/keep defense or something
He was downed, then rallied with full health. around no mobs or other players. but meh
Is there a chance he had just tagged 30 guys, waypointed to run back, and was getting kill credit from across the map? That’s a pretty common thing.
Of course your going to hold us back at our spawn with our MAYBE 20 people group tops.
Then when we do push you back out and you all hide in your tower while we kill the stragglers, which would be your “2 to 1”
Trolls gonna Trolls
What? The second time we fought you at spawn it was even, and we all got full 25 stacks over the entire affair. You downed 4 people total over 6 minutes, and didn’t hard down anyone. We backed off to save our garrison from a KN ninja attempt.
Assuming you’re [bv].
Actually it was on purpose I joined their party. They did it mult. times, and they weren’t the only ones inside. They were just the ones out of 6 I was able to screenshot
And Im not judging the whole server on this group either. So please don’t think I am.
We had like 50-60 people in that train, and we were dpsing it down, so I can still see 6 people glitching through unintentionally
I was there when the commander was telling anyone who glitched through to get out. Up to you to believe it, but it’s hardly a hack to do a whirl ability against that reinforced gate.
Considering they’re both guardians, they probably accidentally whirled through the gate. The commander always tells people to get out of the tower when they glitch through. It’s a very easy gate to accidentally pop into.
KN probably would match up better with SoS
If KN drops SoS goes up, so that likely can’t happen.
score update
Dude, you think we have more WvW guilds than what you’ve seen the past two weeks hiding only till the weekend hits?…Our guild leader asks us to pull all nighters in WvW with him for Friday and Saturday. The KN WvW guilds put in long hours during the weekend because if we didnt our score wouldnt be what it is right now.
Maybe y’all should play for fun and let the Population Balancing Machine match you against people that can casually play at equal hours?
I’m OK with Mag moving up or down because the blue spawn in EB is awful, ugh. Though supposedly they do want to randomize colors in the future.
Also Bronze Invader in that SS, such a sexy title. Is that Ho?
Probably. I think he’s the only one above rank 150 on Mag.
Thought I’d just leave this here. We had at most 15 ppl defending and only delayed Mag’s karma train by 5 min.
They should buff cart range to match trebs.
and Kaineng is not falling part, but barely hanging on to #1; which is increasing points for Mags and YB.
CD and SBI, we really don’t enjoy the point disparities. You’ve welcomed us in, let us get back on our feet; and we really don’t want to keep imposing on you as we are.
However it’ll take 21 weeks if CD’s score stays static for EB to catch up and at least 3 more weeks this good for SoS to go to T3 (with no promises we won’t come right back) if SBI continues to take a breather (and we know they won’t).
Help us recruit some NA primetime guilds so you can be rid of us forever!
Seriously, I know you are getting sick of us, do us all a favor!
If scores stayed static, they would get nowhere. The scoring system measures based on expected performance, so if it’s 300k vs 200k vs 100k for 8 weeks it wouldn’t change at all. That’s why tiers rarely change, because it requires a huge shift for anything to happen.
T3 is so screwed up I wish maguuma would take first and it was a more even match up. I just like maguuma. :P
We took first last week, and likely will this week. Kain loses a lot of people after the weekend for some reason.
We didn’t lose ppl. We just have very few Europeon players. That’s by far our weakest time zone. In the weekends we can play overtime to cover it. But in the weekdays everyone got work and school so we lost everything to pvdoor. That’s costing us a lot of points. >_>
No worries though. The fights are fun and that’s good enough for me.
That’s pretty much the definition of losing people, isn’t it? Your NA prime time isn’t as strong as it is on the weekends. Work and school aren’t really a complete story for that, it’s not as if we don’t all have similar situations.
When we do have people we always wins. That’s all we care about at this point. That final score has much more to do with our European coverage, which is out of our control so why worry?
Everyone wins when they have more people, though. That’s mostly what WvW is about. I think Mag only cares because there’s about 8 hours of dead air for us during the day and it gets quite boring!
T3 is so screwed up I wish maguuma would take first and it was a more even match up. I just like maguuma. :P
We took first last week, and likely will this week. Kain loses a lot of people after the weekend for some reason.
Score update for those of us at school? Want to know if we’ve passed yaks yet
Passed them just now.
I think that was a bit of an overkill
The action shots of them firing looked cool though.
I’m pretty sure that’s the most amount of siege you’re allowed in a particular area too, so the scariest thought is that they’d have probably put down more if they could’ve.
5 siege per 1000 units. Cluster your siege as tight as possible and distance the clusters well. You can fit about 30-40 in the lower level of SM lord’s room if we’re counting the ramps going to the 2nd floor.
TC opened grenth.
Not sure what all the fuss is about, mag has their zerg time yaks has theirs and kain has ours to say each team doesnt stomp the other with 2:1, 3:1, and yes sometimes 4:1 odds is stupid, why complain when it happens to you if you do it to us, somehow you doing it makes it right? I havent been on the borderlands much the past two weeks as our guild has been on EB, but I’ve seen maguuma use more arrow carts and more effectively than any other server since the change so I really dont know why they would be complaining about our side using it in any situation other than telling us how poorly it might be set up when they get to one they see. Most of RE’s builds are built for group battles not 1 on 1 or 1v3 combat so thinking that your kill squads owning us when we get seperated is doing anything impressive is kindof funny. To the hills save we did the 2nd time we only had 15 come in to wipe your 15-20 this is estimating btw the numbers in the keep were about even as they could get we just got the jump on you there so chill(btw you guys even claim to do the same map hopping to save keeps so why complain when another group does it). I have had some amazing fights this weekend so far but it annoys me that we cant give respect when its due, like when mags gets SM, they can golem rush no prob cause after repeatedly telling our side to do it there is little defensive siege set up, but when mags owns SM you better believe there will be massive amounts of siege in there and golem rushing for our side isnt an option, we need to get to that level of defending capability. Mags this kain is still reorganizing, to think we’re fully ready yet to be the opponents you seem to want, you may havto wait some time. After all this is the first week we’re completely on our own, kain defenders without false numbers.
I don’t even know what you’re responding to with this. Can we try to quote the posts? A lot of threads go really off track when people just blanket respond to stuff that hasn’t even been said.
A demonstration of how this thread is nothing but a vocal minority:
(note the votes)
Incidentally, the way you quoted reddit is the very reason a lot of people hate reddit!
kickstarter: lower pop cap per server
there is nothing wrong with the patch and AC buff
its sad to see how many people are crying because 100 of them cant mash 1 on reinforced doors and capture it in 2mins anymore
finally you have to use strategy and brain to do something but i guess thats to much for some people
im from Gandara and yesterday we lost Bay from AG (Guilds DAWN and NP or NR hmmm)
anyway they did it briliantly…they got outer gate before we even noticed it….then treb inner walls….we couldnt stop them so we built lot of siege inside lords room and they knew it….so they just portal bombed us and wiped easygame finally gets more then just 100 people following 1 commander and pressing 1 on the doors
There’s not a game requirement that you must be outmanned to use an arrow cart. Now you’re happy because you can either a) get rolled or b) turtle forever.
If only 1 vs 100 can do that, what do you think is happening in most tiers when it’s relatively even odds like 30 v 30? The death of fights. It’s a war to see who can throw down the cheapest strongest siege in the game, and then stare at each other.
Every fight on reset, the opposing side was choosing to turtle forever. I don’t think that’s a good direction for this game to go.
first of all you cannot turtle forever…you can turtle till you have enough supplies to repair walls/gate
in both even or outmanned fights if you cant breach the gate….go for treb or cata…
and here is the real problem (people are just to lazy or just not wise enough to know places where to build catas and trebs that cant be countered)if you did that you would pretty much push defenders to come charge you and there you get your fight
its really easy but not enough people and guilds are wise and organized enough
Let’s ignore that I was talking about open field fights where carts are being thrown down at every fight.
You’re saying that people are too lazy to invest 5 hours per keep. Do you really think that the game mode should be exclusive to people that rather interact with objects instead of players? If you were making a game, would you design it such that on the average day, your playbase was just interacting with static objects rather than human players?
I don’t see a lot of longevity for designing a game around stalemating. People ultimately world versus world to fight players.
That a very bad all or nothing point of view you can attk keeps and try to take them until you can but if its well defended then its going to be painful and long. The trick is to know when to give up on a target or better yet know when to go after 2 to more targets at once. Soon you can use the fact that they have a well defended keep as a liability in that they put way too much into that keep to lose it so they must defend it at all cost. Then you start turning the game on your terms.
The game needs to be balanced assuming everyone is competent. This goes for PvE, sPvP, and WvW. If everyone is competent in the keep, they can defend double their numbers for 5 hours easily, especially after swirling winds is gone. Pre-carted, pre-trebbed, waypointed, fortified, 20-30 good pvp’ers, and that keep isn’t going anywhere any time soon.
90% of the time the pre-trebs and pre-carts drive people off because it’s evident that it’s going to be a VERY long fight. Are people leaving because they’re lazy, or because it’s extremely boring?
Again, this is ignoring that the original post is talking about carts that are being thrown EVERYWHERE and not just keeps. Open field carts are becoming all the rage. Some like carts because smaller populations can use them to hold off larger numbers, but it’s being ignored that larger populations can use them to hold off people just as much, and to better effect~
there is nothing wrong with the patch and AC buff
its sad to see how many people are crying because 100 of them cant mash 1 on reinforced doors and capture it in 2mins anymore
finally you have to use strategy and brain to do something but i guess thats to much for some people
im from Gandara and yesterday we lost Bay from AG (Guilds DAWN and NP or NR hmmm)
anyway they did it briliantly…they got outer gate before we even noticed it….then treb inner walls….we couldnt stop them so we built lot of siege inside lords room and they knew it….so they just portal bombed us and wiped easygame finally gets more then just 100 people following 1 commander and pressing 1 on the doors
There’s not a game requirement that you must be outmanned to use an arrow cart. Now you’re happy because you can either a) get rolled or b) turtle forever.
If only 1 vs 100 can do that, what do you think is happening in most tiers when it’s relatively even odds like 30 v 30? The death of fights. It’s a war to see who can throw down the cheapest strongest siege in the game, and then stare at each other.
Every fight on reset, the opposing side was choosing to turtle forever. I don’t think that’s a good direction for this game to go.
first of all you cannot turtle forever…you can turtle till you have enough supplies to repair walls/gate
in both even or outmanned fights if you cant breach the gate….go for treb or cata…
and here is the real problem (people are just to lazy or just not wise enough to know places where to build catas and trebs that cant be countered)if you did that you would pretty much push defenders to come charge you and there you get your fight
its really easy but not enough people and guilds are wise and organized enough
Let’s ignore that I was talking about open field fights where carts are being thrown down at every fight.
You’re saying that people are too lazy to invest 5 hours per keep. Do you really think that the game mode should be exclusive to people that rather interact with objects instead of players? If you were making a game, would you design it such that on the average day, your playbase was just interacting with static objects rather than human players?
I don’t see a lot of longevity for designing a game around stalemating. People ultimately world versus world to fight players.
I wonder what happened to Mag. Reset for the past few months usually was our strongest time, now its our worst?
That’s not been true for months. The people we have on reset are the same people we have every weekday, which is why we gain during the week. We had outmanned on 3 borderlands just 4 hours after reset, and had to basically give up 1 borderland pretty soon after reset.
We’ve lost reset/weekend for the last… 6-8 resets? It’s not that big of a deal. WvW is a measure of how many people are online for your server.
Please, just stop whinning.
During the reset in MGBL we stayed with your Hills for 8 hours straight…AND we used no more than 10 AC, 2 Cats, a Treb and people willing to die (if you think 10AC is a lot to defend a whole keep, go back to Age of Empires, where u can storm a castle with archers…).
Ohh, yeah, we called reinforcements (we are a team after all) when you came with your Omega Golems, 3 Trebs and a 40+ zerg against 15+ defenders in hills…it was marvelous to see u jumping from the cliff not to get wiped:Impressive. I’ve heard east keep is a really difficult keep to hold.
Well, we took it from you…=P
It was home borderland, which means you should have had it shortly after the maps came up. @@
It was your home, should have defended it…but you preferred to get ArrowCarted in KainBorder…xD
KN did spend enough time in t2 to know how home borderland works with 3 even sides, right?
Arrow carts only doing stupid damage to players and not siege would still lead to a game where you need to set up a treb every 3 square yards to kill another cheaply made arrow carts. Siege creeping is not fun.

