Showing Posts For Predator.7321:

Jan 25 - Feb 1 2013 | SoS & JQ & BG

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Why is it BG does so well now and falls off during the week?

Because the same people do WvW all the time get burnt out in the middle of the week

Official WvW server : KAINENG the destroyer

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Kaineng the Destroyer….Pvdooring its way to victory everyweek
Seriously though you are just farming karma and gold

Are cons getting out of hand?

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

everyone can use them them so they’re fair

I hope this transfer craze evens out

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

bumpity i want more feedback

I hope this transfer craze evens out

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA
Take a look how broken t2 t4 t5 are
never seen so many blowouts in a week
*edit take a look at EU too
t2 t4 t8 t9

(edited by Predator.7321)

Tier Predictions in a Month

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Haha that will be ironic WM on Kaineng crushing their former server, SBI

SoHowComePeopleDont do the baseevents

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Well mostly guilds use them to get a little extra help because it requires 10 people in one spot waiting for the event and people don’t like to wait

What are queue times like in T1/T2 servers?

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

On Blackgate only reset night it’s like 20 minutes but you can get into any borderland at any other time because we don’t have many dedicated guilds covering all maps at once.
3rd place in T1

Garrison trebs

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

those trebs are easily countered
pro tip:Build an arrow cart right under the cliff you can take out all the trebs up there

SoS Vs JQ Vs BG 18/01-25/01

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

RG, you guys are freeeeeaking scary! you guys are probably the best guild in JQ. how long have you been there? lol. wonder how RG vs HB would turn out.

Warning:This post is not biased at all
The server would crash and burn and HB would win :P

Gift of exploration price skyrocketing?

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

You can sell that?

Well your server "should"take everything on the map of some point
I meant not all at once

Delete this

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Get the GM to spank SoS and BG bottoms, they are being very very naughty.

Gasp there’s people on IoJ still lol jk. I guess that what happens when you invest too much in one timezone

Delete this

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Because Jade Quarry has NEVER done this before.

so its admited that BG and SOS are communicating via TS, mumble, or vent to coordinate attacks…. It wont matter at the end of the week….

We steamroll all enemies equally

Delete this

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

So because JQ did poorly on one map during one window of time, we’re going to call in the GMs to break things up — what happens then?

Do they tell BG that SoS has said mean things about their relatives, and then tell SoS that BG invested all of SoS’s gold into a pyramid scheme via the Black Lion Trading Company? … Would that work? Hmm.

Either way JQ, in my experiences as a Toaster, your best bet is to get BG and SoS to hold a dolyak parade and hope that the tryhards on either side will kill the yak, causing BG/SoS to start mauling each other.

Lol I was wondering what funny guy is the server from and saw TC haha love you guys

Delete this

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Wel JQ just got an army of transfers send them out

WvW Top Guilds Thread

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

[HB] of Blackgate. Herfolge Boldklub or something hard to spell like that…just really coordinated, organized and brutal on the field. They’re also generally chill and mannered on the forums, unlike many other kitten-waving “big guilds”.

Thanks for the praise give me a minute to think a guild other than HB that is good

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

lol yeah SF bandwaggoned onto the prx train. If they truly wanted a competitive t1 they would have joined BG. Totally lost respect for their guild.

Sounds a little hostile. I read the reason SF moved from the guildwars2 guru post. I don’t really see why the hostility. No offense to BG, but they’ve been in Tier 1 twice, JQ has been in Tier 1 since launch and same with SBI until recently. SBI was probably JQ’s biggest rival (after HoD left) till SoS arrived. Why would a guild move to a server that is fairly new to tier 1 (again, no offense BG) when that server isn’t guaranteed to stay in Tier 1? Human nature – people play to win. Sure, SF could have moved to SoS, but according to the reply you got from a SF member, ohai, it seems there’s bad blood between SF and SoS. To me, SF wanted the challenge of Tier 1 (so not SoS) but wanted to be in Tier 1 for a guaranteed long time (so not BG). That leaves 1 server to go to that’s currently in Tier 1, JQ. That’s not to say JQ will be bumped out of Tier 1 next week, 2 wks or however many weeks from now.

Well this screws up the balance of t1. Blackgate is stuck between t1 and t2 right now with SoS and JQ in another league
*edit and you can expect SBI to lose next week too

I understand this, but would you leave your server to join a server that doesn’t have longevity in a higher tier if that’s what you were aiming to do, which is to stay in a higher tier?

It may have been better for SF to go to BG since it would have balanced things out, maybe. What happens if BG got dropped to Tier 2 though after they transferred, which would be against SF’s goal? They would have to pay to come up to Tier 1. I just don’t want JQ to become another SoS – intermediately difficult wins with 30k or more lead. I would still like it to be fairly challenging. PvDoor is never fun.

1. Yes I would because I would like to earn my wins and defeat my enemies will skill and respect.
Idk about you but for me winning isn’t everything
So you’re saying if JQ hypothetically dropped dead right now you would move to SoS just because you want win alot?
2. You’re right Pvdoor isn’t fun but stacking tends to lead to that (former HoD)

No, I wouldn’t want to be on SoS at all (no offense). Did you not read my post? I’m ready to move to FA at any time to join my currently representing guild. FA is in Tier 3. Please read my post. Tier 1 has little meaning to me since I’m a, at the moment, casual WvW player.

Well that didn’t technically apply only to you but for people that move to servers to win. I thought we were talking about transfers

You quoted me so I thought when you said “you would move to SoS if JQ dropped dead” meant me, which I’m pretty sure it did.

Well my bad was talking about people in general sorry for the mistype

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

lol yeah SF bandwaggoned onto the prx train. If they truly wanted a competitive t1 they would have joined BG. Totally lost respect for their guild.

Sounds a little hostile. I read the reason SF moved from the guildwars2 guru post. I don’t really see why the hostility. No offense to BG, but they’ve been in Tier 1 twice, JQ has been in Tier 1 since launch and same with SBI until recently. SBI was probably JQ’s biggest rival (after HoD left) till SoS arrived. Why would a guild move to a server that is fairly new to tier 1 (again, no offense BG) when that server isn’t guaranteed to stay in Tier 1? Human nature – people play to win. Sure, SF could have moved to SoS, but according to the reply you got from a SF member, ohai, it seems there’s bad blood between SF and SoS. To me, SF wanted the challenge of Tier 1 (so not SoS) but wanted to be in Tier 1 for a guaranteed long time (so not BG). That leaves 1 server to go to that’s currently in Tier 1, JQ. That’s not to say JQ will be bumped out of Tier 1 next week, 2 wks or however many weeks from now.

Well this screws up the balance of t1. Blackgate is stuck between t1 and t2 right now with SoS and JQ in another league
*edit and you can expect SBI to lose next week too

I understand this, but would you leave your server to join a server that doesn’t have longevity in a higher tier if that’s what you were aiming to do, which is to stay in a higher tier?

It may have been better for SF to go to BG since it would have balanced things out, maybe. What happens if BG got dropped to Tier 2 though after they transferred, which would be against SF’s goal? They would have to pay to come up to Tier 1. I just don’t want JQ to become another SoS – intermediately difficult wins with 30k or more lead. I would still like it to be fairly challenging. PvDoor is never fun.

1. Yes I would because I would like to earn my wins and defeat my enemies will skill and respect.
Idk about you but for me winning isn’t everything
So you’re saying if JQ hypothetically dropped dead right now you would move to SoS just because you want win alot?
2. You’re right Pvdoor isn’t fun but stacking tends to lead to that (former HoD)

No, I wouldn’t want to be on SoS at all (no offense). Did you not read my post? I’m ready to move to FA at any time to join my currently representing guild. FA is in Tier 3. Please read my post. Tier 1 has little meaning to me since I’m a, at the moment, casual WvW player.

Well that didn’t technically apply only to you but for people that move to servers to win. I thought we were talking about transfers

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

lol yeah SF bandwaggoned onto the prx train. If they truly wanted a competitive t1 they would have joined BG. Totally lost respect for their guild.

Sounds a little hostile. I read the reason SF moved from the guildwars2 guru post. I don’t really see why the hostility. No offense to BG, but they’ve been in Tier 1 twice, JQ has been in Tier 1 since launch and same with SBI until recently. SBI was probably JQ’s biggest rival (after HoD left) till SoS arrived. Why would a guild move to a server that is fairly new to tier 1 (again, no offense BG) when that server isn’t guaranteed to stay in Tier 1? Human nature – people play to win. Sure, SF could have moved to SoS, but according to the reply you got from a SF member, ohai, it seems there’s bad blood between SF and SoS. To me, SF wanted the challenge of Tier 1 (so not SoS) but wanted to be in Tier 1 for a guaranteed long time (so not BG). That leaves 1 server to go to that’s currently in Tier 1, JQ. That’s not to say JQ will be bumped out of Tier 1 next week, 2 wks or however many weeks from now.

Well this screws up the balance of t1. Blackgate is stuck between t1 and t2 right now with SoS and JQ in another league
*edit and you can expect SBI to lose next week too

I understand this, but would you leave your server to join a server that doesn’t have longevity in a higher tier if that’s what you were aiming to do, which is to stay in a higher tier?

It may have been better for SF to go to BG since it would have balanced things out, maybe. What happens if BG got dropped to Tier 2 though after they transferred, which would be against SF’s goal? They would have to pay to come up to Tier 1. I just don’t want JQ to become another SoS – intermediately difficult wins with 30k or more lead. I would still like it to be fairly challenging. PvDoor is never fun.

1. Yes I would because I would like to earn my wins and defeat my enemies will skill and respect.
Idk about you but for me winning isn’t everything
So you’re saying if JQ hypothetically dropped dead right now you would move to SoS just because you want win alot?
2. You’re right Pvdoor isn’t fun but stacking tends to lead to that (former HoD)

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

lol yeah SF bandwaggoned onto the prx train. If they truly wanted a competitive t1 they would have joined BG. Totally lost respect for their guild.

Sounds a little hostile. I read the reason SF moved from the guildwars2 guru post. I don’t really see why the hostility. No offense to BG, but they’ve been in Tier 1 twice, JQ has been in Tier 1 since launch and same with SBI until recently. SBI was probably JQ’s biggest rival (after HoD left) till SoS arrived. Why would a guild move to a server that is fairly new to tier 1 (again, no offense BG) when that server isn’t guaranteed to stay in Tier 1? Human nature – people play to win. Sure, SF could have moved to SoS, but according to the reply you got from a SF member, ohai, it seems there’s bad blood between SF and SoS. To me, SF wanted the challenge of Tier 1 (so not SoS) but wanted to be in Tier 1 for a guaranteed long time (so not BG). That leaves 1 server to go to that’s currently in Tier 1, JQ. That’s not to say JQ will be bumped out of Tier 1 next week, 2 wks or however many weeks from now.

Well this screws up the balance of t1. Blackgate is stuck between t1 and t2 right now with SoS and JQ in another league
*edit and you can expect SBI to lose next week too

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

BG can stay in t1 a long time if they show the determination they showed this week. Especially if SoS and JQ are beating each other up. A solid server with decent 24/7 coverage can survive in t1 for a long time as we have proven.

But wvw is a month long battle and as we know people play wvw less as time passes. The reset night in t1 is the “gungho” status and everyone is excited to play in the coming weeks we are only going to lose people. With guesting coming and basically server lockdowns I don’t see Blackgate moving up in this current situation

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Many guilds stacking into a server is fine IMHO, but having three of the top guilds in the game stack onto a t1 server is kinda cheap. Still, hopefully SOS doesn’t get steam rolled this week and we have a great many good fights and a even contest between all three sides.

Just wish I could play during euro prime time. would love to see HB and the red guard duking it out.

Haha SoS getting steamrolled is the least of your concern…..
I am only looking forward to Red guard the next reset might be a blowout for BG

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

New server standings relative to each other?

Tier A: SoS / JQ
Tier B: BG / SoR (BG SEA+EU heavy and SoR NA heavy)
Tier C: TC / FA / CD

There is a clear divide between 1&2 and everyone else.

I wouldn’t call us EU heavy there are just organized guilds that pull all the weight

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Lol this is pretty funny all odds against us, next week is going to be a painful one boys for BG

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

PRX a former DAoC guild from Titan Alliance with all the other DAoC guilds in JQ looks pretty scary.

Edit: Strike Force SF from SBI is also moving to JQ. Next week is going to be mad!!!

Really did SF move to JQ?

Free Xfers to end on the 28th! Chose BG!

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Hey Gunzo nice thread BG is lacking NA guilds the most so if you want good action in NA prime BG is for you

Siege Weapons and AOE Limits

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

I doubt the ram can hit 50 things because if an enemy ram is blocking the gate you can’t hit the gate…..is this a bug?

New System/Glicko/Match up/Transfers fix

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

agreed but will be archived prolly

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG redux

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

That reminds me where are all the BG smack talkers now?

Where did you see all the smack talk from BG before?

I don’t know, maybe from the constant smack talk from the previous T1 meeting, and up to this meeting as well.

The one that sticks our the most is where the BG forum warriors keep saying that JQ isn’t a T1 server, despite out accomplishments. I read your T2 threads…you guys seem to be obesessed with JQ; and we are talking T2 threads from 4…5…6 weeks ago (not including weeks 3..2…1). You just want to boot us out because we are weak, and you guys are a true T1 server.

So, according to your forum warriors, we don’t belong. We ride the success of the 1st place team…if that makes any sense. Terrible logic. But let’s humor this * backwards logic….How come no one else can do it? Gotta be good to do it/be competitive/stay in the game with SoS to even “ride in their success”.

But, we are just a T2 team according to the BG posters here. I’m sure you’ll say “nuh uhhhh!” History/forum history says otherwise.

But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. We haven’t talked about the train wreck that was “Beastgate”.

I also remember replying to a guy named “peas” or something like that. He said that you guys had more posts/bigger threads than T1, therefore you guys would dominate. I told him that was a bad idea. He couldn’t resist saying that JQ didn’t belong btw…

I never understood that why BG posters, even when not going against us, still post about us.

Ok if you see smack talk it’s most likely from a non-guild player that doesn’t respect his enemy so please, ignore them.

Vapour Form

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Most classes can do what vapour form does and they don’t even have to go down to do it and if everyone else can do it better, why do we need to nerf elementalists?

i dont see anyone else besides elementalists being able to use portals and enter keeps/towers at will when Downed AKA Dieing.

lets see warrior would have a long wait for #3 skill to run into a portal and only die 10 seconds later unless he kills someone before and revives.

Engineer : uhh what he’s gonna pull the portal with his grappling hook ?

Thief: only got a short teleport to location and stealth no skill that allow running and entering to portal.

Mesmer:somewhat like the thief except they spawn some clone to fight back yet again no “Run to portal”feature.

Necromancer:only drains hp poisons and fears those near him.

Ranger: damages and dazes and can revive the pet at location so pet can start reviving the ranger.

Stop lieing please.

I said “they don’t even have to go down”.

Endure pain, distortion, anything that gives block, elixer S, anything that teleports, even dodge rolls (even stealth to an extent), etc. All of these things will get you through a door no matter what skills people are using on you. And you don’t have to wait until you’re down to use them! Amazing. How do we stand for this?

Edit: Like, as an example, look at what engineers can do for 20 seconds starting at 0:40

Nisha had to sacrifice every ounce of damage to do that

Willing to share WvW details?

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

If they do decide to make waypoints contestable 100% of the time I’d hope they add a new way to make them useful to compensate. What about allowing people to res at a contested waypoint at the cost of the keep’s supply (2-5 per person)? Or being able to make the waypoint uncontested for the next defense event for a larger amount of supply (100-200)? This would give defenders an advantage as long as the keep still had supplies and not make waypoints useless, even if they can be contested most of the time.

That would make griefers very veryhappy it would be worst than orb flyhacking

MS Blatant ripoff of Sunrise and Twilight

in Community Creations

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

to be fair, GW2 has a Red Ring of Death ring.

lol i loled abit nice one

Willing to share WvW details?

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Waypoints are currently the most powerful upgrade in the game but there are a few issues.

They are only inactive when the defense quest is active, are you guys planning on disabling them slightly longer than the defense quest to allow attackers to keep the defenders from spawning there just as the defense quest lapses?

For example under the current system I can count down on voip the defense quest and spawn in everyone right as it hits zero and before attackers can reflag the keep.

This is definitely a bug. I’ll see about leaving the rally points disabled for a few extra seconds after the event has completed. That way it just stays disabled if the event starts back up.

Aw that’s our reinforcements

1-11-13 SoS vs JQ vs BG

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

SoS, you all shouldn’t talk, considering most of the bandwagon guilds we had moved to your server after our first week in T1, [Agg] being the largest of them.

Yea kitten those guys, bandwagoning to a lower tier not knowing any other NA guild would be there but TSYM. So bad!

Gasp you copied my account name

Jan 11-18 | SBI vs SoR vs TC

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Whats that TC? You’re going to golem rush our garrison when we only have 10 people on? Oh… how cute, you gotta get some combat skills before you think you can just seige your way to victory silly guys.

TC likely has only about 10 people there as well. ^.^ Looks like this time of day will be slow for all of us. New tactics to figure out. Fun!

This.

It’s going to be so nice when I log on tomorrow and we actually still have our keeps and garrison <3

Aw missing us already?

WvW solutions

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Noted, moved to archives

Ice fractal - svanir loot nerfed?

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Nothing nerfed just bad rng

Creative way to hold a Resource camp?

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

I’d consider it an exploit if they got up by flyhacking

Where's the Scavenger Hunt post?

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Hey guys,

Just a quick update on where the whole scavenger hunt system stands since I know that’s a topic many of you have brought up recently. We’re not currently actively working on building any sort of legendary precursor scavenger hunt, this is something we want to do in the future and we’re in the midst of designing how this would function, but no one is actively building this feature and you should not expect in the Jan/Feb/March releases at this point.

We are however working on expanding reward systems to make them more re-rewarding across all parts of the game, making the open world more rewarding, and adding new ways you can earn precursors as rewards via new reward systems taking advantage of our open persistent world.

Some of these additions will come as early as the January release, and will get covered in more detail in the next week or two as well release all the details about this release once testing has signed off it’s all ready to go in January. (we’ll also provide a high level summary of our goals with reward systems, etc. in our 2013 blog post, which should be out next week)

AWWW I was hoping for the scav hunt

I would like the devs to fix Jan/Feb/March

in Ranger

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

k noted moved to achive

Jan 11-18 | SBI vs SoR vs TC

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Farewell SoR, had fun with like 10 matchs? gl against your new opponent

Out of curiousity

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

hopefully not devs need to focus on other things that are broken

4th Jan: BG/SoR/TC

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

looks like HB already started their early celebration:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/78846-blackgate-going-tier1-again/

I for one cant wait for new opponent in Tier 2, and I hope SoS and JQ make it tough for BG in Tier 1

Yeah had fun fighting SoR for like 9 weeks :P. I’m sure they will and we will give them hell back

Torn between Professions

in Players Helping Players

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Guardian sounds like what you need test some builds i’ve seen some guardians do good dmg while being tanky

SoS vs JQ vs SBI 1/4/13

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

BG has been in T1 before and bombed out within a couple weeks… nothing will be different.

We will be back next week and better prepared

An idea for matchups

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Well how it would work is , green would be the loser from the higher tier blue is the server who stayed in the tier and red is the server who moved up from the last tier.

I don’t think an entire server moving down a tier or up a tier is a good idea. That would encourage big guilds to “boost” a server up easily to where it’s not supposed to be and could simply leave. The current system is not bad, but what really needs to be fixed is wvw is general. If they fixed wvw more players would play and shut off server transfers would balance the rankings

For Blackgate

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

How things play out for us (SBI) starting around 11pm PST. every night. We have already lost the few things we had in JQ BL. We never had anything in the SoS BL. SOS starts taking everything in EB and once EB is left with 1 tower and a camp they head over to SBI BL at which point our commanders all have to go to bed.

“Inc. AH (camp) 50”
“50? Look again”
“You count them then”
“Oh ok, at LEAST 50 maybe more”
——————————

“How many are on Bay?”
“About 30-40”
“OK let’s save it pls”
10 of us show up. Lost.


“Hills inc! Can we please try and save that?”
4 of us show up. Lost.

Ok they will head CS or LV or Garr. It’s all we have left. They hit 1 or 2 or all 3.

“Ok we have 1700 supplies in Garrison we need to dump. Start dumping them”

Lost. Well, we only left them with 200 supplies instead of 500 at least.

SBI ppt +35

1:30am – 2:30am ish PST time for bed I guess.

this is the most accurate post so far.
/signed

To be completely honest all I can say is that I can understand your pain. It’s terrible to lose something just because you don’t have enough manpower to do anything. SoS is king at the moment for its decent 24/7 coverage and JQ unshakable morale they have been in t1 for a long time. I hope the fact that SBI moving to t2 will organize things for you guys because i’ve had some memories(mostly bad) of SBI rolling over us when WM was still on SBI and Blackgate was in t1. T2 has organzied Blackgate on a new level and given some of us a profound hatred against SoR(lul). I respect the guilds that remain on SBI to fight it out and stick it through. I think Blackgate’s coverage can rival SoSs tbh

Hope you get better =/

P.S Don’t take t2 so bad SoR and TC are good to practice against lol jk

(edited by Predator.7321)

We need some insanely hard PvE content.

in Suggestions

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

plus the solution for making pve content harder?MOAR HP!!!

We need some insanely hard PvE content.

in Suggestions

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Until you solo lupicus then you can ask for more

An idea for matchups

in WvW

Posted by: Predator.7321

Predator.7321

Im sure its easy to change colours (Yes I am australian) around

How? Your system doesn’t work cuz green got 3rd they have to move down but blue got 2nd so they stay?How can green go down if blue stays