Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?
Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleportAi overhaul. Agreed.
Pathing changes. Agreed.
Access to boon stripping..? Specify?
Access to teleport is questionable too.
What do you mean specify? The ability to strip boons from other players, what is hard to understand about that?
And a teleport is needed. Rangers compete for a role with thieves and mesmers who are both able to strip boons from might/protection stacking brawler specs, and who can both teleport, which gives them a ridiculously huge advantage when it comes to rotating.
Thieves and mesmers would still have the advantage of bringing a higher burst and being able to hop into stealth to disengage. And unless they really fixed pets, rangers would still have the disadvantage of losing a big chunk of their cc and dps to pets that don’t know how to hop off a ledge or over a small fence. But this would at least give rangers a chance at being competitive.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.
And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.
No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line. Really stop arguing this point, it’s dumb. The same exact meta build that uses the same exact rotation had one trait line swapped because WHaO was too good. The whole argument was whether or not you could get perma 25 stacks of might with WHaO before it was nerfed and I proved that you could in fact do so, and it matched the meta build minus swapping axe for warhorn which is a marginal dps increase.
Please actually have an argument. Idk how you’re not getting infractions for just constantly flaming me, but it really is getting annoying.
You are ignoring this
This assumes some kind of impossible situation where you are never not swapping to a stalker since it will be 32 seconds between the applications of mighty roar (not counting the 3s cast time) if one were to keep zephyr’s speed on cool down.
-Swap to Stalker, Proc zephyr for 15s, Proc Roar for 22s
-Swap again to Proc zephyr for 15s, Roar has 6s left
-Swap back to Stalker, Roar has been expired for 10 seconds and needs another 3 seconds to reapply.It is not possible to swap to the next pet and back to the stalker before Mighty Roar expires.
and the fact that even if it was possible on paper it was completely unviable in a fight.
I am not ignoring it I just didn’t see it(hard when multiple people are replying to you at once). The extra 5 stacks are easily made up for with an extra sigil of battle and something like sigil of strength or runesets that apply might and might duration(strength for example) too tired to show math but rationally you will see it makes up for it. Furthermore, one of the main reasons it was nerfed as stated by Roy on Twitter was it was not intended to stack such long durations especially with ALLIES stacking boons on you. It doesn’t matter whether or not it was viable in a fight in pvp, because the argument was whether or not you could actually stack 25 might, say in pve environment, and you could do so.
Originally before I got in this dumb little kittening contest I didn’t think the skill was balanced because of the durations of Quickness you get which is much more viable in pvp(and would still stack probably about ~12 stacks of might pretty well.
Everyone already has 25 stacks of might in PvE because all it takes is having 1 ele or warrior in the party. That argument is as ridiculous as the rest of the terrible arguments you have made.
SOLO bud. Solo.
You literally just posted this, " it was not intended to stack such long durations especially with ALLIES stacking boons on you."
For kittens sake, you even capitalized “allies”.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.
And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.
No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line.
You’re right. It is dumb to try to show you where you lied because youre blinders are strong… Anyway, the point, so everyone knows, was the 20% boon duration in the meta build he reference which you get from NM only. Stating the build on meta battle has been there for “quite some time” is simply not true if you look through the history that is easy to see. Without said 20% boon duration there is no perma might self applied in a DPS build with BM that was there on meta battle 48 hours ago.
Yeah he clearly ignores anything that shows he is wrong. I honestly don’t know what he’s still doing here, he already got his ranger nerf. Shouldn’t he be moving on to another class to cry about? I heard thief got a pistol buff, P/P will still be a terrible build but I’m sure it is blowing up some noobs, maybe Mcrocha can go get that nerfed too.
Nah I’m just not replying to that guy anymore he literally only flames me, but it appears you do the same thing. GG I guess. Just for fun you can go on my posting history and look back and see which class forum I post on and have posted on for three years and then get back to me about telling me to go to other class forums. KThxBai
You know what, “Just for fun” I did check and you haven’t posted on any class forum for 3 years since your first post was in January. Hell I have about that and this is my second account. But keep those lies coming.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.
And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.
No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line. Really stop arguing this point, it’s dumb. The same exact meta build that uses the same exact rotation had one trait line swapped because WHaO was too good. The whole argument was whether or not you could get perma 25 stacks of might with WHaO before it was nerfed and I proved that you could in fact do so, and it matched the meta build minus swapping axe for warhorn which is a marginal dps increase.
Please actually have an argument. Idk how you’re not getting infractions for just constantly flaming me, but it really is getting annoying.
You are ignoring this
This assumes some kind of impossible situation where you are never not swapping to a stalker since it will be 32 seconds between the applications of mighty roar (not counting the 3s cast time) if one were to keep zephyr’s speed on cool down.
-Swap to Stalker, Proc zephyr for 15s, Proc Roar for 22s
-Swap again to Proc zephyr for 15s, Roar has 6s left
-Swap back to Stalker, Roar has been expired for 10 seconds and needs another 3 seconds to reapply.It is not possible to swap to the next pet and back to the stalker before Mighty Roar expires.
and the fact that even if it was possible on paper it was completely unviable in a fight.
I am not ignoring it I just didn’t see it(hard when multiple people are replying to you at once). The extra 5 stacks are easily made up for with an extra sigil of battle and something like sigil of strength or runesets that apply might and might duration(strength for example) too tired to show math but rationally you will see it makes up for it. Furthermore, one of the main reasons it was nerfed as stated by Roy on Twitter was it was not intended to stack such long durations especially with ALLIES stacking boons on you. It doesn’t matter whether or not it was viable in a fight in pvp, because the argument was whether or not you could actually stack 25 might, say in pve environment, and you could do so.
Originally before I got in this dumb little kittening contest I didn’t think the skill was balanced because of the durations of Quickness you get which is much more viable in pvp(and would still stack probably about ~12 stacks of might pretty well.
Everyone already has 25 stacks of might in PvE because all it takes is having 1 ele or warrior in the party. That argument is as ridiculous as the rest of the terrible arguments you have made.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.
And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.
No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line.
You’re right. It is dumb to try to show you where you lied because youre blinders are strong… Anyway, the point, so everyone knows, was the 20% boon duration in the meta build he reference which you get from NM only. Stating the build on meta battle has been there for “quite some time” is simply not true if you look through the history that is easy to see. Without said 20% boon duration there is no perma might self applied in a DPS build with BM that was there on meta battle 48 hours ago.
Yeah he clearly ignores anything that shows he is wrong. I honestly don’t know what he’s still doing here, he already got his ranger nerf. Shouldn’t he be moving on to another class to cry about? I heard thief got a pistol buff, P/P will still be a terrible build but I’m sure it is blowing up some noobs, maybe Mcrocha can go get that nerfed too.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Because they are trash builds… Except for that one day, you remember, when WHaO would copy boons like a boss? Yeah, that was a very good day when a NM build wasn’t trash.
And if you don’t want to be called a lar don’t tell lies. It’s pretty simple. You said it’s been on meta battle awhile, it hasn’t. It’s been on there all of one day. That’s the lie.
No the meta build has been there quite some time. It just changed out one trait line. Really stop arguing this point, it’s dumb. The same exact meta build that uses the same exact rotation had one trait line swapped because WHaO was too good. The whole argument was whether or not you could get perma 25 stacks of might with WHaO before it was nerfed and I proved that you could in fact do so, and it matched the meta build minus swapping axe for warhorn which is a marginal dps increase.
Please actually have an argument. Idk how you’re not getting infractions for just constantly flaming me, but it really is getting annoying.
You are ignoring this
This assumes some kind of impossible situation where you are never not swapping to a stalker since it will be 32 seconds between the applications of mighty roar (not counting the 3s cast time) if one were to keep zephyr’s speed on cool down.
-Swap to Stalker, Proc zephyr for 15s, Proc Roar for 22s
-Swap again to Proc zephyr for 15s, Roar has 6s left
-Swap back to Stalker, Roar has been expired for 10 seconds and needs another 3 seconds to reapply.It is not possible to swap to the next pet and back to the stalker before Mighty Roar expires.
and the fact that even if it was possible on paper it was completely unviable in a fight.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
What is it that the ranger community want from the devs to make ranger viable, exactly?
Better pet control
Better pet pathing
Access to boon stripping
Access to a teleport
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
If the build didn’t work, then why does it matter that it got nerfed?
Because it opened up possibilities.
We didn’t even get 24 hours to test it out. I was messing around with a (unfinished) build that offered a very fun risk vs. reward play.
What did the ranger get without this buff? 2 extra stacks of might on warhorn and some bug fixes? Great balance patch, thx anet. Maybe one day they will get around to fixing our pets, traits, shortbow, etc.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
If it only lasts one rotation it isn’t permanent. That’s essentially the exact opposite of permanent’s meaning. Your initial argument was that the Ranger could maintain permanent stacks of max might due to WHaO. There are certainly ways for a Ranger to get high stacks of might but this isn’t due to WHaO. We’re getting into the land of shifting goalposts here so let’s bring it back to the original point: There was no reason to put a 3 stack might cap on WHaO. It was not the problem with the skill.
You simply ignored all of the other sources I gave you evidence for, I am not shifting the goal posts. I demonstrated how to maintain 8 base stacks permanently with an occasional spike up from Mighty Roar or teammates stacking might as well.
Teammates stacking might on you is completely irrelevant to the question. They can stack might on you all day without WHaO. It has nothing to do with WHaO. As for 8 stacks of might? It’s nothing. 16 stacks of might? That’s a good start. But your argument was that a Ranger using WHaO could permanently maintain 25 stacks of might. This is incorrect and has been shown to be incorrect.
The point was: if you can permanently maintain 16 stax of might without WHaO (which i proved is totally possible above), you could have used WHaO to get those stax of might from your pet to maintain 25 stax (since it caps out). The build to do so doesn’t even sacrifice all that much dps, all you end up losing is the Skirmishing line which acceptable for 25 stax of might in a fight.
He was right, you were wrong. Can we get back to the actual issue plz?
As I already pointed out that build doesn’t work anywhere except on paper. You have to already be in combat, no condi removal, swapping pets, weapons and your heal on cooldown. Even the worst players will tear you apart.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.
You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.
Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.
Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.
And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.
Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:
Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.
Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.
Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.
Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.
It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.
Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.
So just be in combat, swap pet, swap weapon, occasionally blast warhorn, use long channeled pet skill, and use your heal, drop your condi removal for marksmanship, all so you can not hit max stacks of might. Sounds perfectly reasonable.
I mean a basic combat rotation to maintain 16 stacks of might sounds reasonable to me.
Okay, go try it out. See how long you survive after gimping your traits, and blowing pet swaps and weapons swaps on cooldown just to keep up that might. Please take a video of yourself running your “basic combat rotation” in a ranked PvP match.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
We’re not arguing different things, it seems you don’t understand how the mechanics work. Let’s say you have 20 stacks of might with 2 seconds duration, then someone uses a buff that gives you 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. Your tooltip hover will say you have 23 stacks of might for 15 seconds. In reality, you have 20 stacks of might for 2 seconds and 3 stacks of might for 15 seconds. After three seconds have passed you will have 3 stacks of might for 12 seconds. Reapplication of a stacks intensity boon does not refresh the duration of your existing stacks. They stack individually atop each other and are individually removed as their durations expire.
You could not infinitely keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. The problem was stacks duration boons and solely stacks duration boons.
Yes, but if you get 13 stacks of might for durations longer than 16s that are reapplied and use WHaO you will have perma 25 stacks.
Edit: it allowed minor might stacking to be more powerful than it should be, by doubling stacks.
And where are you pulling these supposed 13 stacks of might with at least 18 second durations from? And keep in mind their cooldowns need to be under the cooldown time of WHaO to be maintained permanently.
Let’s have a run down of a Ranger’s might sources:
Jungle Stalker, Mighty Roar: 5 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 3 second cast time, 25 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Hits from Strength of the Pack: 1 stack of might per hit, 8 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time, 60 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Brutish Seals on Signet use: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 1 second cast time on Signet of the Wild, individual cooldown times of (80s, 60s, 60s, 30s). Not maintainable.
Under 50% health with Most Dangerous Game: 5 stacks of Might, 3 seconds duration, completely useless once you hit your heal button. Not maintainable.
Critical hit with Companion’s Might: 1 stack of might pet crit, 5 seconds base duration, unlisted ICD. Not maintainable.
Zephyr’s Speed on pet swap: 3 stacks of might, 15 seconds base duration, 20 second cooldown. Not maintainable.
Even if you slot every single trait and skill that gives you might, a Ranger cannot get 13 stacks of might on themself and their pet with a duration that exceeds the cooldown of WHaO and whose individual skill or trait cooldowns are low enough to be used consistently on the WHaO cooldown.
It was never possible for a Ranger to maintain permanent might on themselves with WHaO.
Maybe not 13, but 8 easily. Zephyrs Speed(16s with BM line) comboed with Clarion Bond is 6 stacks ~18s with NM line, sigil of battle weapon swap is 2 stacks. Second go around your Clarion Bond won’t be triggered bc ICD, but you could actually cast CotW. This is only including might that the Ranger could throw out. There’s also Mighty Roar from Jungle Stalker(might is perma with BM minors, but would only last one rotation I guess) and Might that teammates could apply. Very easily could maintain high stacks. Especially if say you were using Runes like Runes of Strength.
So just be in combat, swap pet, swap weapon, occasionally blast warhorn, use long channeled pet skill, and use your heal, drop your condi removal for marksmanship, all so you can not hit max stacks of might. Sounds perfectly reasonable.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I’m still fighting mostly d/d eles in my bracket, and the team with the most d/d’s is winning easily. the amount of cleansing, burning, sustain and mobility is outright insane.
could we hotfix some d/d balance balance changes like we did with the OP ranger? I didn’t know you guys could hotfix balance changes, and seeing how this balance pass was ultimately a failure after 4 months of waiting, a hotfix would be most appropriate I think.
I am laughing so hard at the fact that players have any weight in how classes are balanced. It should be based on stats and stats alone. This is where ANET made their biggest mistake nerfing a class based on the salty tears of the community now every players is going to expect if they rage hard enough they will get what they want.
You call ranger OP. At what point has ranger every been OP in the last 8 months? It has been 24/hours and we got nerfed from a buff. That isn’t even enough time to see if players are able to adapt to the change. Hell there isn’t even enough stats to justify the nerf.
he was being sarcastic when he said rangers are op
edit: he beat me to it
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
Well yes, but when you have things that can apply 15s of might that becomes permanent with WHaO if you have some boon duration, meaning that you could in fact get an infinite amount of might duration at 25 stacks.
No, it doesn’t. Because when you combine might stacks with WHaO you get more might until you hit the cap. When you combine say, protection stacks, you get more protection time until it builds onto itself over and over where it eventually reaches the duration cap of ~8.5 minutes. Let’s say you and your pet have 10 stacks of might with 20 seconds duration each, you hit WHaO and you now have 20 stacks of might with 19 seconds duration (due to WHaO’s cast time), 16 seconds later you press WHaO again and now you have 25 stacks of might with 2 seconds of duration.
You cannot permanently keep up stacks intensity boons with WHaO. Stacks intensity boons like might were never a part of the problem here and there was no reason for them to be capped.
You can permanently keep up the might stacks from something that is applied for greater than 16s if it is reapplied. So that is indefinitely, and in doing so you can double the stacks from using WHaO. I think we are arguing different things.
If that’s your argument, then what’s your response to the fact that other professions can keep 25 might stacks indefinitely, and more easily than ranger can? It wouldn’t be a problem if ranger were actually competitive in PvP without might stacking, but this isn’t really the case.
My argument would be that it is not intended for the Ranger to easily get 25 stacks of might like other classes. Seriously people need to stop comparing the Ranger to other classes and saying stuff like its not fair that “x class can do y and Rangers can’t”. If you want every class to be the same so badly then try a different game. Furthermore, if this is what you want so badly then I don’t see the problem with the current meta and everyone just rolling d/d eles since they’re all the same.
Next change should be rangers will no longer get dodge rolls so we can be different than other classes right? I mean we are all machine gun wielding bearbows that shoot people from 50,000 range anyway so what do we need to dodge for. Hooray for diversity that keeps us weaker than every other class!
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I said it of the recent event and it bears repeating here: you need an in-house ‘hostile tester’ whose job is not to just validate the content works if it’s run exactly as the designers envision it being approached, but instead ACTIVELY tries to break content.
This is another example of an idea that was rubber stamped as not crashing the game when it should have been given intense scrutiny (and re-worked) long before it reached the public eye.
The constructive criticism to be gleaned is “improve your testing process”, because this is becoming a habit. You have 5,000,000 players, most of them linked by the internet. The worst case scenario is the only scenario that’s gonna matter and it will spread like wildfire.
Yeah this really bothers me. Did they really not see how WHaO would interact with our traits and skills? I’m pretty sure every ranger here new exactly how the change would affect our boons. I immediately had a build in mind that I wanted to test out as soon as the WHaO change was announced.
If the dev’s were as surprised by this as their knee jerk reaction makes it seem they need to hire someone new to focus entirely on class balance.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Why in name of all that was good and kind was Might transferring capped? I can understand fixing a bug that lets you infinitely stack boons but Might wasn’t one of those boons affected since it stacks in intensity, not duration. It was literally never a part of the problem here. The best you could do was gain a big stack of might for a few seconds, burst and then watch it trickle away. The response here wasn’t a fix, this was butchery.
Rangers have several ways to apply long duration might stacks like 15s on Clarion Bond. It was very possible to have big stacks of might for around 15s consistently.
That’s still not a problem though. Exactly the opposite of a problem. That is a good use of boons, and it’s time limited. The problem was that you could infinitely stack every single stacks duration boon permanently. That’s not okay, but completely gutting the skill and putting a hard cap on a boon that wasn’t part of the problem is above and beyond overkill.
They could just make it so it only copies boons while in combat. This would allow rangers to get stronger as the fight goes on, but prevent people from stacking so much that they enter fights fully buffed.
If people want to front load damage they have to deal with the risk vs. reward of blowing cooldowns and their heal to buff themselves when they first engage a fight. Otherwise they have to put a lot of thought into when they use their cooldowns and heal. Either way they wouldn’t have permanent boons.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Im not even crying so much because of WHaO nerf, but because how fast they nerfed the skill, how much do the devs hate rangers, they had to actually hotfix it as if it were some sort of ridiculously game breaking bug lol
Well they buffed Longbow in several patches, and Longbow was a balanced weapon before the buffs. So they don’t hate rangers too much.
The Longbow was a joke before the changes.
Damage was abysmal at close range. At long range you could just strafe to avoid the arrows entirely, and Rapid Fire was a drop in dps at max range.
Not to mention it took them something like 2 years to buff longbow and before doing so they nerfed the shortbow into the dirt to make longbow more appealing
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I feel that dedicating the Ranger to be the Healer was, in fact, a cop-out. The druid consists of too many undynamic heals and very boring, similar, and unimpactful glyphs. The whole specialization seems lackluster and boring- one thing you don’t want in an action MMO.
The specialization wouldn’t be bad except for the fact that it will inevitably be nerfed and it’s so 1 dimensional that it will then become worthless.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
At this point it’s no longer about whether it’s a buff or nerf anymore.
It’s how Anet sees ranger.
No, it’s not. The trait was not acting as intended. I’m sorry that you feel that rangers need broken traits to be competitive, but Anet is going to fix these regardless of what class. Both guardians and engineers had traits disabled because they were not acting as intended. It has nothing to do with class preference, but instead appropriate game balance.
Let’s not forget that it is still a buff from Heal As One.
What part of it wasn’t working as intended? It did exactly what they said it would. Or is your argument that they have ignored ranger for so long they didn’t realize what boons we put on the pet?
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I really wish they’d talk to us. On here and not on twitter. Communication is something desperately needed.
Yes, talking here is much more valuable, and I believe this is where the meaningful discussion will take place.
A discussion needs to be more than one sided. We have been talking into the void for years and the only response we see are streams where they are joking about bearbows and making terrible balance decisions on the fly.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
How about 1 of the dev’s actually drops in and contributes. Maybe they can explain why they have left ranger as the bottom tier class since launch, or why they felt the need to nerf a buff without giving it even 24 hours to see how things played out.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Still not used to it?
Fixing things that give us an advantage = 1-2 days
Fixing things that give us a disadvantage = 3-7 years
Fixed it for you.
Fixed it for you.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
You merged a thread about shouts into one about WHaO… Roy said he was gonna have a look at that :C
I am disappoint
I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Roy is the last one we want touching ranger.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Until I can get an awnser on my thread being un-merged. For those that were part of the shout utility conversation my post begins on page 7.
Better off just remaking the thread, it’s completely unreadable now.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Big kittening surprise. Thanks for ignoring us once again.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
What is wrong with you players with wanting so much? Boons used to be not so easily obtained. Now you’re complaining if you can’t have a full stack of perma boons?? This game shouldn’t become, “Boon Wars 2: the Game of Boons”. Boons should be limited as scarcity is what makes them special. The Dev’s have been making a design mistake by giving far too much access to boons and subsequently conditions. Dev’s in this area, less is more!
The game already is Boon Wars 2 and we are the only ones who weren’t invited.
Ranger is outclassed in every game mode, why the kitten are they nerfing anything when there is a list of 50 something kittening bugs that need to be fixed? Why the kitten are they nerfing a build that had multiple counters? Why the kitten aren’t they doing something about all the kitten traits like MDG? Why the kitten have pets been broken since launch?
We don’t want “so much”. We want kittening anything to be addressed. Bare minimum we want some kittening communication with the dev’s rather than seeing a kittening twitter post saying “I’m nerfing something that isn’t even strong for lulz.”
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
……. they were seriously concerned with the might stacking!? What the kitten…
Hypocrites. Only their favorite professions are allowed to stack might, apparently.
Which is literally every other profession….
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
……. they were seriously concerned with the might stacking!? What the kitten…
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I’m so kittening glad I didn’t pre order the expansion. I’ll wait and see what shape the druid is in once the game releases and then maybe I will buy it. It’s just way too likely to get nerfed into the ground because anet has no clue what they are doing with the ranger class.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Could it be because none of the devs play ranger? yeah that’s probably it.
Irenio said during TwitchCon that he mains a Ranger. Not sure if it’s by choice or because he was given/selected to balance Rangers (and Engineers). Either way, he’s the only developer Rangers have on the balance team.
and yet someone else’s knee jerk reaction to a skill change is what leads to another nerf for rangers. GG anet.
what I really want to know is, who pioneered the change to WHaO in the first place? Was it Irenio? If it was him, I cant help but think as though this was a well thought out buff, that he knew would be powerful but also limiting, and only he understood it
If it was anyone else, its like, do you even bother testing things like this ahead of time at all? Ya know, before giving it to the most downtrodden class only to take it away the next day?
Or do you just throw darts at a wall? One lands on “We Heal as One”, second lands on “Boons,” and the third lands on “Pet”
BINGO!
Roy was part of the group that thought MDG was grandmaster worthy and balanced it in the middle of a live stream
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.They’re making it function the same way as Fortifying Bond, which is what it should have been done in the first place.
Except with Fortifying bonds values its kills the skill for anything other then Might stacking.
Well yes, but maybe just maybe the devs don’t intend for RANGER to stack boons like that.
We talking about the same dev’s that left ele’s god tier for so long and left rangers bottom tier since the launch of the game?
They clearly know what’s best for the class.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
So, if they’ll just “lock” boon sharing duration to 10sec it will be fine.
Less than that will be awful.
If they are going to nerf the duration on the ranger they should make it so the boons are shared with his party. We could actually offer real party support besides the upcoming lulz heal spam.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Could it be because none of the devs play ranger? yeah that’s probably it.
Irenio said during TwitchCon that he mains a Ranger. Not sure if it’s by choice or because he was given/selected to balance Rangers (and Engineers). Either way, he’s the only developer Rangers have on the balance team.
and yet someone else’s knee jerk reaction to a skill change is what leads to another nerf for rangers. GG anet.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Well at least they gave it a little time to let people adapt and see how things played out before nerfing it…… oh wait
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Come on guys, I love rangers I play ranger only for 2+ years, i’m active on this forum only, no one can claim i’m anti ranger or biased against it(I was eve defendign the unblockble taunt). But this WHAO thing is way over the top to the level is not healthy to the profession. I actualy play WHAO on my native build and you realy dont need to build around it to abuse it, getting from a single heal(which si already very good) pream swiftness, rege, fury high amount of protection ,quickness is insane. I’m not even talking about the group synergie and the might stacking potential(and let me remind you that ranger was designed to not be efficient in stacking might). Its funny, if I would have told you WHAO cahnge – give 8 sec of quickness 8 sec protaction 8 sec fury etc.. all would have agreed its OP.
In what setting was it OP?
PvP? People are already running builds to counter this i.e. boon strips because of ele’s, and condi builds that will destroy your pet and shut the build down
WvW zergs? If, and that’s a big if, you manage to keep your pet alive in the large scale fights you absolutely deserve the buffs. Not to mention to use a boon build effectively you have to run WS, BM, NM so you lose piercing arrows.
WvW roaming? Still outclassed by heavy stealth builds, still weak to condi builds, still easy to counter by killing the pet.
PvE? The majority of boons are maxed already, maybe being able to keep up quickness will make it so we see less “GLF x more players, no rangers”.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I use the toy sling shot skin for my shortbow and it changes everything. The range and damage really match the effectiveness you’d expect from it!
lol plus it has that sweet rubber band sound
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Rangers aren’t allowed to have nice things.
If you keep asking for a buff to shortbow they will nerf the rest of the weapons into the dirt to make it seem more appealing.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
i think the main problem here is that 2min+ of swiftness, regeneration, fury, protection and the quickness are kind of ridiculous… the numbers that is, but then again it’s not even that strong. i think they’re just adjusting it because they don’t want classes to have such a long duration of certain boons.
Unless that class is an ele
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Question for Roy, while you are nerfing ranger class to make sure it remains bottom tier can you please also make sure to buff ele’s? The last day since the patch has been very scary with the tiny amount of change that took place, please return everything to the status quo.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
kittening ridiculous.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
no surprise to the nerf.
don’t even started to try to create builds around this heal.that’s how to counterplay rangers.
just go to the forum and qq a bit.
Right? Now the dev’s can do another stream where they make kittenty bear bow jokes while leaving ranger as the bottom tier class for another 3 years.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
380 tick and counting.
Nice fight tier..
Fight tier died when T2 fell apart. Now it’s full of PPT kittenters.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I don’t know, but the announced pets are in the pet selection UI since yesterday (greyed out, of course).
They weren’t grayed out in the PvP lobby. I got all excited when I first logged in yesterday, and then let down when I couldn’t use them.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
There is no defending this amount of quickness.
Stop. Its broken.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in dangerNot to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
There is only 1 thing you have to invest in, which I said in my post was WHaO:
-I said that it is an exchange of only 2 condi cleanse every 20 seconds. In exchange for the potential of 20s quickness, pretty fair trade.
-It is questionable to slot taunt now when it is no longer broken and can be blocked/evaded. Zephyrs Speed offers more utility both with WHaO and general might stacking as well as for something like ressing or stomping.
-you misunderstand the gameplay, you don’t “blow” your skills, you use them normally as you would in any situation previously except now you can just have the potential for 20s quickness.
-you don’t swap the pets on cooldown, you swap them once again when you need to do soAnd if you are playing normally you aren’t immediately healing after every pet swap and every time you use QZ, which means your point is moot.
No, again lets say you NEED to heal so you cast WHaO, a 1s cast, 3/4 of the way through the cast, you swap pets=8s Quickness. You’re not casting heal immediately after swapping pets, you are using heal normally when you need to, but also deciding to swap pets then in order to get 8s Quickness. This is broken in itself because this could potentially have 50% uptime.
Now you don’t have to heal every time after you use QZ, but if you do and then decide to combo it with pet swap as discussed above then you will get 20s Quickness. Essentially you will have almost 50% uptime on Quickness for the cd of QZ. If you do not decide to pop heal, then your Quickness uptime is still ridiculous because of the 6s you get from QZ.
So now you are back to arguing that you will occasionally blow cooldowns when you don’t need to in order to get the benefit of the skill…. That’s part of what makes it balanced….
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
I needs to be changed to have the same table as Fortifying Bond
Thats the most likely thing i see happening.
As much as I want Ranger to be a bit OP for a while at least, I think this is a good idea. I, however, think that the durations should be removed from FB. So the pet gets the full durations from you from “WHaO!” and FB and you gain the shorter duration boons (like FB is now) from the pet with “WHaO!”. That would be better balance imo.
What exactly do you think is OP about that build? Did you even play it? It really isn’t.
I don’t actually think it is that OP actually, it is very cheesy though. In order for it to work, you need to blow all your cooldowns, making you very weak. Although, the ability to stack so many powerful boons in such a short period of time makes it insanely powerful for 1v1s, except vs Necro which is a hard-counter to it. A decent chill duration and some conditions with a few well timed dodges and the Ranger will be down.
No, I have not played it. I will test it out when I get back from Antarctica in 6 weeks, but I don’t think it will be around that long. There will be too much QQ.If you start from above 90% health with Bark Skin, you’ll have 66% damage reduction for ages, after which you can pop “PM!” to take no damage, then SoS for 12s of no damage, at least 33% damage reduction, Quickness and most boons, Might stacked to 25. That’s massively powerful, whether or not you have to blow your CDs to do it.
Pretty sure it doesn’t affect SoS. The immunity to direct damage isn’t a boon.
You are right, SoS and PM are not boons, but that doesn’t prevent you having 12s combined invulnerability while also under the effects of Fury, 25 might, Protection, Regeneration, Swiftness and Quickness, self stacked. I just think that is a little too much, no matter what class it is on or how fragile it is. And it is fragile.
If you are talking about “Protect Me”, it’s kind of counter productive for this build. The goal is to not only buff yourself, but to buff your pet and keep it alive. If your pet dies you are kind of screwed.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
lingering magic gives you a flat 20% boon duration boost and there are a few runes that increase effectiveness of certain boons or boons in generell
Interesting..still, I really do hope that this is how the skill was intended to be used and that I am not exploiting anything by any chance, regardless of what other players say – as in my opinion, I feel that 2 minutes of speed boost is a bit OP in itself already – and this isn’t taking into account other buffs, and is extremely tempting to just sit there and reapply the boost until I end up with essentially, double digit timers.
You could already keep up 2 min of swiftness before the change to WHaO. Not an exploit, don’t worry about it.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
Stealth isn’t a boon
/thread
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
There is no defending this amount of quickness.
Stop. Its broken.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in dangerNot to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
There is only 1 thing you have to invest in, which I said in my post was WHaO:
-I said that it is an exchange of only 2 condi cleanse every 20 seconds. In exchange for the potential of 20s quickness, pretty fair trade.
-It is questionable to slot taunt now when it is no longer broken and can be blocked/evaded. Zephyrs Speed offers more utility both with WHaO and general might stacking as well as for something like ressing or stomping.
-you misunderstand the gameplay, you don’t “blow” your skills, you use them normally as you would in any situation previously except now you can just have the potential for 20s quickness.
-you don’t swap the pets on cooldown, you swap them once again when you need to do so
And if you are playing normally you aren’t immediately healing after every pet swap and every time you use QZ, which means your point is moot.
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
It’s undoubtedly a bug. As long as you and your pet have the same boons with stacking duration, WHaO will refresh them. You can use this to essentially gain permanent quickness, protection, retaliation, fury, vigor, regeneration and swiftness.
If you and your pet get any stacks duration boon on you with a duration that’s longer than the cooldown for WHaO you can maintain it indefinitely.
I’ve already posted a bug report here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/We-Heal-As-One-refreshing-boons/first#post5548354
Feel free to jump in there if you want to add your voice to say that it’s bugged.
Ummmm….. you do realize certain boons stack in duration right? WHaO now copies your pets boons to you and vice versa, basically reapplying the boons. How the kitten can you think something is a bug when it is doing exactly what it is supposed to do?
…….. I mean…. what the actual kitten?
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended
There is no defending this amount of quickness.
Stop. Its broken.
I applaud effort but the devs who allowed this to go through need to be fired.
Care to elaborate on that or is this just another, ”I don’t know what killed me and I am too lazy to try to figure it out and see if I can counter it, so I’m just going to qq for nerfs” posts?
The reason why it is op is because it takes zero investment. Take the meta power survival build for instance which could now take zephyrs speed over beastly warden after it was nerfed. So the only “sacrifice” you have to make in your build is taking WHaO over TU. In exhcange for two condi removal every 20 seconds you can have 6-7s quickness just by swapping pets right before WHaO is cast. You can have 12-13s quickness by popping WHaO shortly after QZ is cast(say you just got bursted and need to stunbreak/heal). That’s totalling ~20s of quickness on a Marauder build just bc the Ranger was playing normally. Plus that’s only considering the boons you apply and not the other ones that would be on your pet from allies or traits etc.
That’s not good for balance and just adds to power creep, in the future people can say “oh look at Ranger they can have 20s quickness why can’t we have xxx.”
No investment… You just said they have to
-drop a condi removal
-drop their taunt (which up until yesterday was the providing the most qq about rangers)
-blow a stun break and condi removal
-blow a heal
-swap pets on cooldown rather than properly managing them and saving the swap for when they are in danger
Not to mention this is in PvP where everyone is running as much boonstripping as possible to deal with guardian’s and ele’s (who have easily been stacking boons without putting themselves in so much danger since forever).
How exactly is that OP again?
Jim Hunter when my other account isn’t suspended