I’m saying a really bored guild might try it once and then never again because it is completely impractical and useless for anything other than hunting down small groups (which a 20 man ranger group could easily do without wasting a bunch of time trying to pre stack buffs).
Like I’ve said numerous times, just because it works on paper doesn’t mean it works in a fight.
So, because you aren’t an exploitive weasel they shouldn’t design with exploitive weasels in mind. Because that’s worked SO WELL for them in dungeons…
That it works at all (something I hope we’re done contesting) is a strong enough reason to hot-fix it out of existence. And they did.
Now hopefully we can get a real WHaO soon rather than the knee jerk untested kludge they dropped in in under 48 hours.
Whether something works or not can mean 2 different things. Can this be accomplished by doing something absolutely ridiculous like you suggested? The answer is yes.
Does that make it work in game? The answer is no. There isn’t enough of a benefit to go through the trouble of doing this. Running a regular group is far more effective because a group of rangers won’t beat an organized guild, the second their boons are stripped, they are downed, or they have to man siege, the gimmick is over and they would have to wp to spawn to get their boon monkey guardians to set the whole process up again.
Look at what you wrote and think about how ridiculous that is.
You saying it won’t work or that you’re jealous you didn’t think of it?
I’m saying a really bored guild might try it once and then never again because it is completely impractical and useless for anything other than hunting down small groups (which a 20 man ranger group could easily do without wasting a bunch of time trying to pre stack buffs).
Like I’ve said numerous times, just because it works on paper doesn’t mean it works in a fight.
Put 4 Guards not in a group in a line. The two ends 601 to 800 apart (so Guard 1 and 4 are outside of each other’s shout radius). Put the ranger and pet in the middle. Cast Feel My wrath. Press recursive WHaO any time in the next three seconds. DONE. Perma Quickness. The extra 1-3 seconds doubles every 16 seconds.
You could set up a “car wash” at the entrance to a borderland or EB and prep another ranger every 36 seconds. This is child’s play for an organized WvW guild and perma-regen and perma-protection are even easier.
Look at what you wrote and think about how ridiculous that is.
“Real players” didn’t try to pull off some ridiculous gimmick build that required them to gather up multiple guardians to stack quickness on them and to constantly spam their heal to keep it going.
Do you not have ‘guild nights’ in your universe? Because I’d have had death squads of 20+ Rangers with perma-Quickness and probably perma-Regen and likely perma-Protection just for giggles by the end of the week. Pirate-ship meta meet 21st century USN destroyers.
We may also have different definitions of “Ridiculous gimmick”. All you have to do as the Ranger is carry ONE skill, and once the Guards say (shout, really) “Gettum!” all you have to do is press that one skill every time it comes off cooldown. We’re not even talking a trained monkey being required. A trained CHICKEN can peck a key when a light comes on…
and those 20 rangers would get destroyed as soon as they ran up against an organized group running reflects, and then what? sit around for 5 minutes while your 4 guards go around buffing everyone only for your group to get destroyed again?
What you are describing falls into the same category as a minion master run or mesmer run. They are fun but they completely fall apart when facing an organized group. If you think about it a 20 man PU mesmer group is way more broken than a ranger group with quickness. Should they completely remove stealth to avoid some gimmick that would work against test golems?
Dude. QZ is gilding the lily. Once you have ANY amount of quickness above 16 seconds it goes recursive. Whatever that excess is, it doubles each time you press WHaO. So if you want to look like you don’t math, please press on with your obliviousness to why the skill got shut down the moment it made it out of the soft and cuddly laboratory and into the hands of real players. Because real players will use it break ANY boon that stacks duration.
“Real players” didn’t try to pull off some ridiculous gimmick build that required them to gather up multiple guardians to stack quickness on them and to constantly spam their heal to keep it going.
Its a jack of all trades that can fill a role as needed as the game goes on. Right now it can 1 v 1 pretty well, it can +1, it can “troll” far pretty well, and it can kinda hold node when it needs to. + Unlike some other professions the team fight presence of a ranger is definitely felt.
And yet an ele will do pretty much all of that better. That’s the problem, it’s not that rangers are bad, it’s just they don’t have a real spot at the moment.
Edit: I’m fairly certain I’ve seen you say pretty much the same thing recently.
Power ranger is viable at top end PvP Puck.9612. More so now than it ever has been.
Viable in the sense that you can win fights or that there is a reason to bring it over the other professions?
Don’t get me wrong, I definitely prefer power to condi, but without boon stripping or teleports I don’t see a real advantage to running a ranger against an organized team in PvP.
Bows are not mandatory and the fact you don’t see Ranger in high tier mean nothing as to how viable it is. Most players that compete at a high level started with that intention. Ranger have been close to the bottom in terms of power for along time.
This means that most player who desired to compete mostly skipped of the ranger in favor of easier classes.
Most rangers don’t use the 1sword to start with and once they decide to play compete
Most haven’t develop the skill to use the sword. To use the sword you have to be very aggressive. This is contrary to how most rangers play ranger.
The problem with the sword is if you are using it to attack outside of a 1v1 it is pretty much a death sentence, you can evade around like a spider monkey on crack but you aren’t keeping pressure on them since you can’t strafe around and attack without gluing yourself to the target, or leaping off point if no one is targeted. Unlike the GS it has no burst damage, and it provides a lot less utility. Sword is fine for dueling but it’s not great for fighting in PvP.
You don’t strafe you kill and you kill quickly don’t try to run away. Even in a 1v3 situation you should be able to put down(kill) your target. You will die but you should have score at least one kill (sword has cleave possible to down two if not all three) and delayed the other two aleast 15 to 30 second enabling your team to have the advantage on the other two points.
Stay alive for the sake of stay alive doesn’t help your team. Seen ranger spend to much time running and not doing anything. 8 time out of 10 running in the 1 v3 situation usually mean they take the point uncontested (1 stays behind and cap) you still die (two chase you) but without fighting back and they are closer now to the next point.
Creating a situation that puts your teammate on the next point at a disadvantage.
With Path of scar, rapid fire, point blank shot, quickening zephyr and k9 kds and wolf fear you have the tools you need to do what you need. Sword with quickness is no joke. Don’t be afraid to die and don’t die needlessly.
You won’t improve if you always play it safe. Yes, there is risk to using 1h sword but the pay off can be huge.
So you yolo in to down 1 before dying… I’ve gone 1v3 on point, strafing around cleaving, using GS block, SoS, my pets to body block and cc, dazing and evading for so long that 2 of them ended up rotating off since they lost the other 2 points and then I killed the 3rd. Usually I will die to a 1v3 but I’ll still last a hell of a lot longer than 15-30 sec.
Like I said, sword is good 1v1, hell I’d say full melee ranger is 1 of the strongest 1v1 builds, it just loses effectiveness in team fights.
There isn’t a problem with the sword. Working as intended. Take the step to master this weapon as is. Whether there is or isn’t a change to the way this works you will be better for it.
My keyboard won’t, though. Is it really too much to ask to be able to use a weapon without mashing the 1 key constantly?
Fellows like you need to stop resisting quality of life changes just because you think you’re a better player for being able to compensate for a glaring design flaw in how the game is coded. This problem has been persistent for three years because of it.
Bows are not mandatory and the fact you don’t see Ranger in high tier mean nothing as to how viable it is. Most players that compete at a high level started with that intention. Ranger have been close to the bottom in terms of power for along time.
This means that most player who desired to compete mostly skipped of the ranger in favor of easier classes.
Most rangers don’t use the 1sword to start with and once they decide to play compete
Most haven’t develop the skill to use the sword. To use the sword you have to be very aggressive. This is contrary to how most rangers play ranger.
The problem with the sword is if you are using it to attack outside of a 1v1 it is pretty much a death sentence, you can evade around like a spider monkey on crack but you aren’t keeping pressure on them since you can’t strafe around and attack without gluing yourself to the target, or leaping off point if no one is targeted. Unlike the GS it has no burst damage, and it provides a lot less utility. Sword is fine for dueling but it’s not great for fighting in PvP.
You don’t need them in your party. You need them ONE TIME at the entrance to a WvW map to charge you up for hours of continuous quickness. Again, it actually builds margin with quickness on pet swap so you don’t have to fire it instantly on cooldown after a little while either. You only need to keep it above the critical 16 second threshold of recursive absurdity. And while the heals might not come at the precise clutch moment you’re hoping for they still come literally as fast as they can: every 16 seconds. 16 seconds where you were dishing 24 seconds of your favorite damage. If you can’t figure out which fights to pick with THAT kind of advantage…
If, and that’s a big if because I don’t believe your ever going to have multiple guardians dropping everything to come buff a ranger every time he dies, but if that ever became a problem they could then cap quickness.
The preemptive nerf because of what people “could” pull off on paper was ridiculous. How hard they hit the skill was just stupid. And the fact that they nerfed it in less than 24 hours but they would leave things like the gun flame bug over the entire BWE, the multiple golem week bugs left for the whole week, the engi grenade bug for over a week, mesmers being brokenly op for months, or cele eles being god mode for over a year….
Why the kitten is it the only time rangers receive fast attention is when they are nerfing things? Why is our bug list still something like 50 bugs long and the first ones to get attention are the things that benefit rangers?
And if anet can make changes to the skill in less than 24 hours why aren’t they testing out different versions of it right now?
I hate the eagle one, the endless flapping sound is like nails on a chalk board and it looks like it is trying to carry my asura away. Love when they shark bugs out though.
The issue is that condi ranger builds just aren’t competitive against good players who know what they are doing. So I wouldn’t use that as an example. Can you get away with it? Yes, at low end pvp, against high end pvpers? it would get eaten alive. While Power Ranger still struggles, it is the most viable option available to rangers by a long shot.
Power Ranger isn’t viable in high end PvP either so your point is moot. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t mind seeing GS getting a damage buff on auto, or sword becoming a little less clunky, but it’s not our weapon skills that are keeping us out of the meta.
Come on, I’m STILL laughing that for even one second they let a version of WHaO exist much less get to the live servers that you could have four Guards click Feel my Wrath, and then you had PERMA QUICKNESS until you left the map… With Ranger being better than most professions at adding even more quickness duration from time to time so that each cast of your heal actually built up your buffer even higher…
Quickeness on pet swap and Sigils of rage just make it more ridiculous.
In that situation you would have to blow your heal on cooldown to keep it going which would likely get you killed in your first fight, and if you have 4 guardians in your party you kitten near have perma quickness in a fight anyway, so why would you waste your heal for a gimmick that is completely impractical?
The arguments against WHaO were made by people fighting training golems or just theory crafting. That crap doesn’t work in combat.
I really wonder why Anet nerfed burning on ele instead of globally. It’s not as if it’s harder to play guardian and the access to quickness makes it possible to stack 5-6k burning ticks in 1-2 second… And guardian has plenty of cleanse.
Because burn guards are a one trick pony and only bad players complain about them? Because ele’s have a metric kitten ton more sustain than a burn guard?
Sorry, but who cares about CD reduction? Just Quickdraw it.
^ I’m not agreeing with the who cares part but I do just quickdraw it. Honed axes needs an overhaul and it should be moved to a different traitline….. it’s just there is so much that is broken right now that this isn’t very high up on most peoples priority list.
Or you can ask about build here, and we can explain what to change n our opinion and why. Kitty will explain from SV ranger side, i’m from Shout ranger side.
I switch back and forth between zephyr and BW, and Entangle and SotP. It really depends on what kind of builds you are running into, but in general SotP is usually more useful while roaming. You can pretty much shrug off condi damage, and quickdraw + 2 stun breaks + stability + super speed/ perma swiftness means you will outrun most big groups that try to chase you.
-Troll Unguent is our best heal, use it when you are about 80% hp to see the best benefit for it, because its healing is over 10 seconds it takes a while to ramp, but it will heal for roughly 8k.
-WHaO is just really poor, some like it because of the burst heal, but with proper Troll Unguent use you won’t have this issue.
If you compare the traited versions of both heals WHaO actually provides more health per second. It also provides a burst heal and aoe swiftness for better rotations. TU’s only real benefit is the additional condi removal.
Assuming you want to give up Go for the Eyes for Resounding Timbre, with the bird having a 4 sec CD its hard to give up that is a lot of defense in of itself.
I’ve stopped using hawk and eagle until we get a indicator on the buff bar letting us know when BW is off cooldown. The swiftness comes in a lot more handy for me.
That is fine, but would say most won’t be willing to drop Go for the Eyes
I’ve seen tons of people that choose to take Resounding Timbre over Go for the Eyes. I think you are mistaking your personal preference with what is objectively better.
Both work fine in their respective builds. You can’t claim either of them is “the best”.
-Troll Unguent is our best heal, use it when you are about 80% hp to see the best benefit for it, because its healing is over 10 seconds it takes a while to ramp, but it will heal for roughly 8k.
-WHaO is just really poor, some like it because of the burst heal, but with proper Troll Unguent use you won’t have this issue.
If you compare the traited versions of both heals WHaO actually provides more health per second. It also provides a burst heal and aoe swiftness for better rotations. TU’s only real benefit is the additional condi removal.
Assuming you want to give up Go for the Eyes for Resounding Timbre, with the bird having a 4 sec CD its hard to give up that is a lot of defense in of itself.
I’ve stopped using hawk and eagle until we get a indicator on the buff bar letting us know when BW is off cooldown. The swiftness comes in a lot more handy for me.
-Troll Unguent is our best heal, use it when you are about 80% hp to see the best benefit for it, because its healing is over 10 seconds it takes a while to ramp, but it will heal for roughly 8k.
-WHaO is just really poor, some like it because of the burst heal, but with proper Troll Unguent use you won’t have this issue.
If you compare the traited versions of both heals WHaO actually provides more health per second. It also provides a burst heal and aoe swiftness for better rotations. TU’s only real benefit is the additional condi removal.
I don’t see the advantage of taking remorseless in this build. You trigger opening strike but you don’t have any heavy hitting skills like maul or PoS. You could be running BM instead of marksmanship and take a traited WHaO for a better burst heal that also provides more healing over time and grants swiftness to help you rotate faster. Plus you would have access to weakness and either taunt, quickness or the honed axes trait (which is mediocre but better for your build than remorseless).
And if you are really married to healing runes you could run altruism with zephyr’s speed to keep might up rather than relying on Most Dangerous Game (which is just a terrible trait) or Grove for better protection uptime.
I don’t see the advantage of taking remorseless in this build. You trigger opening strike but you don’t have any heavy hitting skills like maul or PoS. You could be running BM instead of marksmanship and take a traited WHaO for a better burst heal that also provides more healing over time and grants swiftness to help you rotate faster. Plus you would have access to weakness and either taunt, quickness or the honed axes trait (which is mediocre but better for your build than remorseless).
And if you are really married to healing runes you could run altruism with zephyr’s speed to keep might up rather than relying on Most Dangerous Game (which is just a terrible trait) or Grove for better protection uptime.
Okay, arguing with you is like talking to a wall. I define killing a pet as bringing it to the lowest possible amount of health. Hence ‘defeated’. By my definition, and Ill wager the opinion of most people, when something is at as little health as possible… its dead. I killed it. In engine, it says defeated, which I acknowledged, but it is still dead. If it were to go to 0 health, the entity would despawn because that is the way the game is coded.
I’m asking for a change because it doesn’t make sense for the trait to be bound to the pet, and then not allow killing the pet to negate the trait. Like I said above, if it was intended for the cc to be absorbed no matter what, it wouldn’t be bound to the pet.
Now its your turn to come up with a constructive argument, as opposed to accusing me of ‘trying to kill ranger’ or ‘ranger hate’ or whatever else you care to allege.
So rather than try to come up with a argument to justify this nerf because you think it is unbalanced you decided to come up with your own definition of death……
Since the world doesn’t revolve around you let me give you a little help. Death- the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an organism.
Since the pets still have life remaining they have not reached the end.
Since pets are still moving around it is pretty safe to assume their vital functions haven’t completely stopped.
Therefore the pets are still alive, they are just taking a breather.
Unlike the pets the thematic argument is now dead.
Now, and this is a question directly targeted at you, do you feel that Shared Anguish is over powered and if so, why is it over powered?
Yup, I’m basically a kitten.
All I’m saying is that the trait makes no sense. What is the point of linking the trait to a pet, and then negating the value of that? It basically just makes the trait “ignore incoming disabling condis”“, with no counter-play.
I know that you all will say”No other class has this restriction, you cant take cc invulns away from other classes" but IT DOESNT MATTER. If it was intended to work regardless of the state of the pet it wouldn’t at all be linked. Besides, I really don’t appreciate insults toward myself or my motives, that have no bearing on the topic at hand.
I’m not trying to kill ranger. I’m not trying to make sure nobody plays it. I’m trying to fix an issue that I saw and that bothered me.
Frankly, ranger is in a good spot in everything but groupfights, and in a group fight most “ignore 1 cc” abilities really don’t matter with the amount of cc that happens.
tl:dr
- please stop insulting me for no reason other than to add a final, verbal, jab
- I’m not trying to kill off ranger, I main it in PvE and WvW
Sorry but you already surrendered your ability to fight this with a thematic argument when you admitted that the pets weren’t actually dead, you now have to come up with an argument that states why this should be nerfed because it is unbalanced.
If you aren’t willing or able to argue why it deserves a nerf because it is over powered in some way (lol) then the conversation is pretty much over. You can either admit you were wrong, remain silent, or try to find a balance argument.
I don’t like rangers in general, yes, but I’m still able to see things objectively and if you had read my post without prejudice you would’ve noticed.
Most exploits in this game are in game for a week or more. The ranger hotfix might be the only class related hotfix I know of, but I don’t know why it was that fast and why it isn’t with other things. I wouldn’t take that aimed at rangers, it was likely a coincidence.
Edit: Spelling
smh….. I even put it in bold and you still missed the point….. I’m done with you.
Let’s ignore the fact that you completely missed the point. Please take into consideration that rangers have been the bottom of the barrel profession since launch and then offer up the logic behind this comment.
I get that you’re a ranger main but you should try to see things objectively from time to time.
The ranger buff was announced weeks in advance and it took people an hour maybe to figure out how to get their 25 stacks of might – before it even was in game. If the players know these things by just looking at the patch notes the makers should’ve known as well. Still they brought it into the game.
I mained a ranger when I started this game and know that longbow was weak back then but even before LB GS became meta good rangers could wreck me. That was a year ago. They’ve gotten quite a few buffs since then and with the right build they’re nearly unkillable – you should try to see this before you jump on everybody who dares to say rangers are “ok” or “strong”.
Maybe rangers were patched that fast because a patch was coming up anyway or the elites weren’t “hotfixed” because they were in game for only one weekend. But don’t see everything concerning rangers as a personal assault.
Edit: And nothing in this thread was about rangers anyway, you brought the topic up. Weird.
I brought it up to point out how fast anet can patch something. They didn’t just revert the skill, they actually changed how it functioned, all in less than 24 hours.
I am not saying all their changes should come this quickly, a lot of things need time to play out and see how players adapt. But when something is actually broken, like the gun flame bug that caused it to hit twice, that needs to be fixed immediately or disabled.
You can’t get proper feedback on something that is broken, and 90% of the warriors I came across over the weekend spent their time exploiting that bug rather than testing anything else out.
Try and look past your bias for rangers and understand the point I am making. Anet has the ability to quickly fix game breaking bugs so they shouldn’t be left in the live game once they are discovered
Honestly, i have to wonder, if many of the people here who are crying that Druid is useless outside of Raids, ever even played the Druid as a Healer at all.
because at the same time during the BWE3 as the Ranger forum was yelling about how bad and useless Druids are outside of Raids, people were on the PvP and WvW forum yelling about how strong Druids are.
lol. I played healer druid and it was awesome. Just need better self defense because as people figured it out, they started to do the “Target the Ranger” tactic which left me screwed since Toughness stat is pretty lacking on Cleric gear and the heals cant counter full target of the Druid from dps heavy enemies.
but the class was great. I left the beta with a nice memory in WvW when it was a three side zerg war ground in which I managed to heal my outnumbered team zerg and keep them alive far longer than they would without my heals. Was a great feeling of Support actually matters for once instead of it just being a byproduct of DPS zerker builds.
The only “druid OP” threads I saw were posted before the weekend. Everyone considered them a free bag after they played against them.
Damage mitigation>healing. Druids can’t out heal coordinated spikes, and it’s very easy to just target druid first and chain cc/burst him down.
Even if some healing is required why would they choose druid who contributes very little else to the group when they can take a full zerk ele who is providing boons and water fields that can be blasted for a full group heal?
…PRobably because a full zerk ele and no-healing power water blasts aren’t sufficient to cover unavoidable raidwide damage being constantly output? What kind of a stupid question…
…… You do realize you can blast a water field more than once right? A coordinated group easily blasts everyone back up to full health.
Even if raids start off requiring a healer, which so far it doesn’t sound like they do, they won’t stay that way. Anet has preached the whole “no trinity, no waiting around for a healer, anyone can fill any role” pitch for too many years. The game itself is designed around that.
“existing Guild Wars 2 content doesn’t require a healer. In fact, I’d even question if the first raid boss does based on how little damage the Vale Guardian actually deals. Why, then, has an elite specialization been designed to the point where it can do little else but heal?”
Excellent question. What happens to druids when players figure out the fastest and most efficient way to get through these raids and druids end up not being needed at all?
Even if some healing is required why would they choose druid who contributes very little else to the group when they can take a full zerk ele who is providing boons and water fields that can be blasted for a full group heal?
And Irene thought our “support with Druid” is top-notch right now, too good that we need a healing nerf and make our healing stat essential with our support, while other classes can keep on blasting their water field, getting all the best boons, best utitlities and offense without sacrificing a thing.
Yeah that kills me. You know the cele form healing isn’t going to get stronger. The base heal will just be nerfed into the dirt so you have to spec full healing to reach the same stats, meanwhile you become even less useful at everything else.
Druid needs to be more than a 1 trick pony. They should increase the range of a lot of the skills and give them heavy cc ability’s, probably condi’s as well. Any future content they create should have a variety of enemies, bosses with tons of trash mobs that need to be cc’d, enemies invulnerable to direct damage but vulnerable to condi and vice versa. Maybe even some that need to be ranged.
CC and condi would be helpful in PvP/WvW as well, and condi’s allow you to do some damage without sacrificing too much healing power. Designing content that requires condi, ranged, and control, will truly break the zerk meta and might actually make PvE interesting.
“existing Guild Wars 2 content doesn’t require a healer. In fact, I’d even question if the first raid boss does based on how little damage the Vale Guardian actually deals. Why, then, has an elite specialization been designed to the point where it can do little else but heal?”
Excellent question. What happens to druids when players figure out the fastest and most efficient way to get through these raids and druids end up not being needed at all?
Even if some healing is required why would they choose druid who contributes very little else to the group when they can take a full zerk ele who is providing boons and water fields that can be blasted for a full group heal?
If it’s the spot I’m thinking of, they put an invisible wall there to keep engi’s from using super speed and rocket boots to jump in. Should be fine to remove it now that leaps are no longer affected by movement speed.
No I don’t think it should.Adding burning to the autoattackwould make it a pure condi weapon, locking it out from power builds. It already kind of works in condi builds, I think staff should just get minor additional condi damage (like a single bleed on vine surge) and have most of its damage through power dmg.
Is this a serious post or very subtle sarcasm?
Just give it 1 bleed on a 20 sec cooldown, problem solved
*trolololol’s away
and 1 player running ahead of the zerg will trigger every trap in the path. Hell he could even run up and tap the keep and then go poke around at the front gate to distract the scouts while the invisible zerg goes all the way to water gate completely unseen.
Currently a couple of scouts could position themselves around the outer towers or roam around the middle ground between SM and the keep, getting some good small scale fights in while keeping an eye open.
If this change goes through you will need someone in each tower and multiple people in the keep at all times. Who is that fun for?
Or we could just say screw defending, follow the master plan, and organize this karma train to be as efficient as possible.
Naw I think you’re looking at it because the potential for it to be crap is there. I hear what you’re saying.
But what you described about the guy going around triggering all the stealth traps, that becomes a new way of playing the map. It can be countered by replacing the traps after the guy triggers it though — preferably by someone in stealth so he doesn’t see it happen.
And yes, I’m one of those roaming scouts — covering the whole map and running around yelling out movement. It does indeed mean that you will be stuck to only one or two towers or a keep if you scout, but it makes that role SO crucial now. And it will only work if commanders respond to the call outs. I will be most regretful about this, because I would duel during my “off time” while scouting. This will make that more hard.
Don’t be the @!#$%# it let’s ktrain guy. You’re better than that, I’ve seen your posts, they’re always thoughtful. Let’s figure out how to master it, instead of the other way around.
It’s a brand new meta to puzzle out and conquer. And I DO believe scouts will become an invaluable part of this — and servers that don’t recognize that will be in some trouble.
Currently I have accounts on a T3 server an a T7 server. The T3 server has the manpower to pull off what you are talking about but in my opinion they don’t have the motivation. Most people don’t want to spend hours sitting in one tower, this isn’t a job.
The T7 server actually has people that would be willing to do this but they don’t have the manpower. If they have to have 7-10 people doing nothing but sitting in EB keeps and tower, maybe another 5 or 6 watching the borderland, they will have maybe another 5 – 15 that can actually do anything during off hours. And of course most of the people that you could rely on to do the scouting are players that would normally tag up for pugs.
I’m not opposed to new mechanics but this is just a bad idea. I’m pretty sure whoever came up with this was the same creative genius that gave us the golem week.
Yeah, I looked at the trapper build and it just wasn’t my thing. What is this zoo build you’re talking about?
Basically what he just said. Heyena summons an ally heyena and pirate runes give you a bird, so you end up with 3 pets at once. I run a power version with wolf for my other pet. You have a ton of cc with taunt, wolf knockdown, heyena knockdown x 2 ( make sure to let your 1st heyena use his before summoning 2nd) and fear. Meanwhile the bird is striking for about 2k and you are doing your own damage.
Solar beam is already doing a better job at condition stacking than shortbow. (1,200 range, piercing without trait, no need to flank to cause bleeding, quick pulsations etc) Giving it burning would be overpowered.
“Overpowered”….. People keep using this word…. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
I actually think it will make scouting more crucial, and response time/coordination more challenging. Good scouts will adapt to use tools to thwart. it means it will be crucial to have eyes everywhere, or at the very least monitor spawn.
Hrm, I wonder if they can stealth and jump maps?
Scouting won’t be crucial.
Even if you’ll follow 80 people blob into SM who will get stealthed, you have no idea where they will go, because you can’t see them.
What will you do next? Pop revealed on them?
I doubt you’ll manage to avoid all CCs and bombs from ~10 people.
Despite that, you won’t follow them anymore, and next scout won’t be so sure if those 10 are exactly the ones who are with the blob or not.
Pretty much, if that 2min stealth is true, then it means that Anet has plans to coffin nail Scouting in the future.
You drop stealth traps at key choke points (think gate exits of SM, narrowed pathways/tunnels/caves, you keep your eye out for traps that have been triggered. You lay more than one after the other so that advance scouting guys don’t trigger the traps.
You max out your AC ability so that AC aoe reveals stealth. You fire at the dorks that stop to kill the sentry along the way and reveal them all in return. And there will always always ALWAYS be two or three randoms that go chasing after the invis blob and don’t stop to get the fountain stealth. Those will be your warning drones.
Final bit: They magically poof outside your gate. If no scout is there, there’s no time to react. At all. Which makes having reliable scouts monitoring areas on map so crucial. It takes about 2.3 minutes to ram down a gate with five superior rams. That’s hardly enough time to call for help, but with enough hair-trigger reaction, they can come up the back end and wipe the blob. It just means more accurate and faster scouting and faster response. It’s doable.
But gone are the days of “oh look there’s white swords at north east tower” I’ll take a run over and look. You need scouts to be present and active and have established trust with commanders who know how to think and react quickly. It’ll take some adjustment.
It’s time to think outside the proverbial box.
and 1 player running ahead of the zerg will trigger every trap in the path. Hell he could even run up and tap the keep and then go poke around at the front gate to distract the scouts while the invisible zerg goes all the way to water gate completely unseen.
Currently a couple of scouts could position themselves around the outer towers or roam around the middle ground between SM and the keep, getting some good small scale fights in while keeping an eye open.
If this change goes through you will need someone in each tower and multiple people in the keep at all times. Who is that fun for?
Or we could just say screw defending, follow the master plan, and organize this karma train to be as efficient as possible.
These are issues those of us who have played Ranger for substantial periods of time have learnt to deal with and work ways around.
^This.
You eventually get used to being weak and become way better at fully avoiding condition damage (and direct damage) rather than trying to outheal or cleanse it. Same goes for pet management, it’s not easy due to the clunky controls but you learn to keep them alive the majority of the time.
If you stick with the class you will start noticing its real weaknesses. No boon stripping, no instant stability, no teleports, the only way to set up a real burst is with a combination of a buffed pet burst and personal burst hitting at the same time. This means using things like moment of clarity, sig of the wild, and/or remorseless to simultaneously land hits with huge tells (like a big kitten ghost bear when you maul).
We have 2…. and they are both off hand. I guess shortbow technically counts but is very possibly the worst weapon in the game.
Axe
Dagger
Shortbow
Torch
I count 4. This is out of 9 weapons that rangers currently have.
Oh yeah… that 500ish dps that axe bleeds put out if you land every hit on split blade are pretty intimidating. Axe isn’t a condi weapon, it’s just the best choice out of the crappy choices we were provided with.
I rather that ANet buff Axe instead of making staff a condi weapon.
If you don’t think apoth gear is viable you need to reevaluate your decision to attempt to discuss builds on this forum.
Condition damage armor is pretty useless with a staff that has no damaging conditions on it, wouldn’t you say? Hence, adding conditions to the staff would make Apothecary armor viable for Druid Healing/Condi builds. Unless ofc the goal is to do as little damage as possible.
When discussing builds, I looks for synergies, like damaging conditions and condition damage, they do go together pretty well.
You do know you can press ~ to swap weaponsets right?
So you can equip Condi weapons on one set, and staff in the other.
Throw on some nice apoth and some dire trinkets, a trap maybe, sounds pretty OP to me.
So having 5/15 of your weapon skills do pitiful damage and 4/15 do no damage at all is a good idea to you?
So you do what, swap from A/T or S/T to Staff to heal, building up AF to enter CAF so you can heal even more, all the while doing no damage? Putting zero pressure on your opponent? Yeah, top build. I can see that being roaming meta. You may need to reevaluate your decision to attempt to discuss builds on this forum.
I think it should just stay as a healing/astral force weapon. The shortbow is already there for the ranged condition damage role.
And CAF is already there for a purely healing role. Staff should perform another role other than healing, ie damage. Adding some condi makes it more flexible for all builds.
It sounds like the Druid specialization doesn’t fit what you preordained it to be. If you don’t like playing a healer/support role and ‘doing no damage’ nobody is forcing you to play it:
If you want to focus on being the top offense then you probably shouldn’t be selecting the Druid specialization.
But do us all a favor and don’t rant on here demanding that it be changed to perfectly suit whatever build you happen to run.
I don’t think he is trying to make it fit any particular build. He is just trying to make it a useful weapon.
The game has been designed around not needing a dedicated healer, that was one of its biggest selling points. What happens if this experiment fails? Do you realize how much of the PvE content in this game has been toned down to make it easier and more casual? Pretty much all of it.
If it fails do you think they will immediately redesign druid to make it useful? Before you answer that remember that the core ranger has been littered with problems for over 3 years because it would take to much effort to fix them
The best time to try and get things changed is right now while they are already working on it.
PvE is a complete joke.
Whether you like it or not, druid is a complete waste of space in any of the core games PvE no matter which way you slice it. As long as the profession mechanic revolves around healing, and the core games PvE is laughable at best in terms of difficulty, that will be the case.
So let’s now accept this, and move on – lets not water this spec down for the fun parts of this game for the appeasement of a subset of content that will never ever use this spec anyway 8 months from now.
Not to be argumentative. But I honestly feel like you’re speaking from a meta standpoint. I’ve found my uses for it. Probably wouldn’t be up to “meta standards” but duo fractals / dungeons was a lot easier and more fun with Druid. That’s a use, is it not? Or did fun fly out the window and no one told me?
But “fun” is subjective. I find it incredibly fun to go pop spider tonics until I get the giant spider and then zerg dive while shooting at people with the birthday blaster.
Technically you can call that a way to play ranger since I’m usually on my ranger when I do it. Does that mean the ranger class is in a good place since I can have fun doing something that doesn’t help anyone in any game mode?
Another possible counter is the new tower upgrade that shows enemies on the map. If this works the same as the EotM sentry things I believe it shows invisible players (not on screen but on map/mini-map). Upgrading a tower to that upgrade is easier than upgrading SM to the invisible fountain.
Also @Puck and @Vendetta your sarcastic comments won’t accomplish anything but making you look immature, and defiantly won’t make ArenaNet consider your opinions any more important if anything less important.
What sarcasm? I’m being dead serious. If they are going to keep trying to turn the game into a karma farm for all of us PvE’rs why take baby steps to do it? Let’s just go all out.
Maybe we can get a new upgrade where if you activate a charr car while tagged up it will turn into a charr train and anyone that rides on it will spam auto attacks when they get near an enemy, automatically build any siege the commander drops, and pick up supply when the commander stops at a depot. The train will last as long their is a tag leading it, the commander can transfer command to anyone with a tag.
This would even help solve the balance problems since players could just log on at the beginning of the week, hop on the train and then forget about the game until next reset. You would just need a handful of people to keep the train running. My biggest hope is that as the train is chugging along the smoke from the engine spells out the word karma in really big letters, because sometimes it’s hard to spot the tag when a lot is going on.
Personally I am very offended that you thought my remarks were sarcastic.
and what was the ranger in Gw1? a distracting shot spammer? a poison shot expert? some just refuse to go out of their ranger bubble, as if they were playing a ranger game. hello, this is a Rpg, There are roles, soft or hard, there are roles. being the most dedicated healer is but one role , amongst the dozen that already exist in the genre and the hundreds more that can be created. are we actually complaining that they are trying to broaden then game play?
Wot? Did you play GW1? Rangers were one of the most versatile classes thanks to expertise and stances. You don’t remember touch rangers, bunny thumpers, beast masters, interrupters, spirit spammers, stance rangers, heavy degen, etc. ?
Anyway, you guys have gotten off topic. There are plenty of threads discussing how boring druid is, this thread is for the bullkitten nerf WHaO received that is apparently being ignored by anet and forgotten by the ranger community. GG everyone.
If you don’t think apoth gear is viable you need to reevaluate your decision to attempt to discuss builds on this forum.
Condition damage armor is pretty useless with a staff that has no damaging conditions on it, wouldn’t you say? Hence, adding conditions to the staff would make Apothecary armor viable for Druid Healing/Condi builds. Unless ofc the goal is to do as little damage as possible.
When discussing builds, I looks for synergies, like damaging conditions and condition damage, they do go together pretty well.
You do know you can press ~ to swap weaponsets right?
So you can equip Condi weapons on one set, and staff in the other.
Throw on some nice apoth and some dire trinkets, a trap maybe, sounds pretty OP to me.
So having 5/15 of your weapon skills do pitiful damage and 4/15 do no damage at all is a good idea to you?
So you do what, swap from A/T or S/T to Staff to heal, building up AF to enter CAF so you can heal even more, all the while doing no damage? Putting zero pressure on your opponent? Yeah, top build. I can see that being roaming meta. You may need to reevaluate your decision to attempt to discuss builds on this forum.
I think it should just stay as a healing/astral force weapon. The shortbow is already there for the ranged condition damage role.
And CAF is already there for a purely healing role. Staff should perform another role other than healing, ie damage. Adding some condi makes it more flexible for all builds.
It sounds like the Druid specialization doesn’t fit what you preordained it to be. If you don’t like playing a healer/support role and ‘doing no damage’ nobody is forcing you to play it:
If you want to focus on being the top offense then you probably shouldn’t be selecting the Druid specialization.
But do us all a favor and don’t rant on here demanding that it be changed to perfectly suit whatever build you happen to run.
I don’t think he is trying to make it fit any particular build. He is just trying to make it a useful weapon.
The game has been designed around not needing a dedicated healer, that was one of its biggest selling points. What happens if this experiment fails? Do you realize how much of the PvE content in this game has been toned down to make it easier and more casual? Pretty much all of it.
If it fails do you think they will immediately redesign druid to make it useful? Before you answer that remember that the core ranger has been littered with problems for over 3 years because it would take to much effort to fix them
The best time to try and get things changed is right now while they are already working on it.
IT isn’ t even a nerf. When the pet is defeated, it by no means should be able to soak condis for you. How is this so hard to understand?
So you agree the pet isn’t dead, which means you can no longer argue from a thematic standpoint. Now you have to compare it to the similar traits I previously listed and make an argument why it should be nerfed from a balance perspective. Good luck.
I’d also like to address the complaint of “kicking ranger when its down”. This is silly. Ranger is good in 1v1’s, and is lacking in teamfights. nerfing/fixing this problem is not going to make ranger better or worse in either of these situations.
The only problem is they need to change the skill description from " transferred to your pet" to “ignored”, and then drop the cooldown to 30 seconds so that it is more in line with similar traits.
Balanced stance- 40 sec and 5 stacks of stability
Reactive lenses- 40 sec and fury
Hard to catch- 30 seconds and refills endurance
Tempest defense- 25 sec cooldown, grants shocking aura and a 20% damage increase to stunned foes.
This isn’t counting all the other traits that trigger to provide blocks, blinds, protection, mirror the cc back, etc.
Are you starting to understand now why people are laughing at you for trying to get this nerfed?
the fact that the ICD is too long isnt the problem being discussed on this forum, the problem here is that dead pets take cc’s after they are dead
