In the end shatter and terrormancer don’t need buffs, if they do need buffs…then we need to buff all other specs in the game not built around self-sustain, because those as well get hunted down by thieves, focused and generally lack great mobility
Actually, if you read the respective threads carefully, especially the Mesmer one, you would notice that many people do agree that other zerker classes do indeed get hunted down by thieves, and that they deserve some time in the limelight too. S/F Ele was one of the prime examples of another build pushed to the fringes of the meta by thieves. So yea, completely agree with you there that other berserker classes need some love as well.
The reason the situation is a lot more serious for Necros and Mesmers (and rangers) is because terrormancer and shatter mesmer are the ONLY viable builds at high-end organized play (not talking about solo queue here where you play against people who don’t seem to know how mesmers or terrormancers work). If you get screwed on your S/F ele you can always go D/D. If I get screwed on my terrormancer or shatter mesmer I reroll to another class.
At the end of the day, the best case scenario is one where every profession has multiple viable builds that can fulfill multiple roles (at least 2 per profession). So, yes, people do agree that mesmers and necros (and, tbh many other classes) do need some buffs in other areas to give them other viable specs. Congratulations- it seems like you got the main points of the buff threads.
But d/d ele cannot be compared ofc to a fresh air ele in terms of sheer dmg, that’s why I’ve proposed to buff Necro/Mesmer accordingly, create a similar situation for them.
Have a Necro/Mesmer version of d/d ele, what I mean is not a copy/paste version, if necros and Mesmer want something more survivable then give to them, but this something cannot be at the same level of current shatter Mesmer and terrormancer in the way they can shape the battle
Ah so you want necro and mesmer cele builds and want every team to go 4 celestials 1 thief?
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Balance is ok, sigils are NOT.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Everyone has different opinions but mesmer is usually one the harder, and ranger one of the easier (as well as warrior)
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Just tested it, Blink goes on full cd when trying to use it without a valid path while thief’s Shadowstep doesn’t. Also, Infiltrator’s Arrow doesn’t use up initiative.
Seems like a bug to me (how surprising).
Actually, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn’t, (speaking of Shadowstep & IA). It seems a little random, but I’m sure there is a reason somewhere.
Fixed now pretty sure.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Again if you mainly play pvp, you should be very happy
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
port changes are awesome, BUT there is a bug with mesmer blink that makes it go full CD (only if traited though) instead of just not working.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
To be fair, most elites aren’t overly strong. Supply crate, however is much better which much less counterplay. I’d rather have elites have more counterplay.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
I would tots try this build if CS was guaranteed stun :P
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Actually mesmer blink is bugged with trait, and goes on full CD regardless. But nice new port spots, yes.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Yeah i think it’s the trait that is bugged and not baseline blink, not sure though as i am not having any more problems than previously personally (pvp). As for people wondering about how ports (mesmer ports at least) were buffed in PvP, i won’t spoil, you’ll have to find out for yourselves ^^
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Buffed in PvP
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Any build we can make now but always with 30 illusions #diversity
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Would this still be considered OP if any one of these happened?:
- Cast time raised to 1s (from 3/4)
- I’m not afraid to admit I have trouble dodging this on purpose.
- Recharge raised to 90s
- This means it won’t be available every fight.
- Health of roots reduced by half
- Sometimes I find on classes that aren’t engi that it can be hard to kill the roots.
- Line of sight requirement
- Someone mentioned getting people from below kylho, but it’s equally annoying when you are hit from behind a wall.
- Blockable
- “B-b-but…I gear shielded that!” /cry
Again, only one of those. Not all.
None of the points are good.
Why not?
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
It actually would make sense in Illusions trait line, and inspiration is actually the more phantasm-focused traitline (15% dmg on phantasms and whatnot) But IC is so kitten important! If anything, maybe move confusion on shatter to somewhere else? Hard to say.
But that’s why I said remove IC entirely and just reduce cooldowns across the board.
Would rather have DE baseline then ^^
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Yes necro port would most likely also be broken, except spectral return
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
You take oakheart salve for the near perma regen which helps a lot for sustain since its over 200 hp/s.
@Mistism, I respect your opinion but having dueled one of the if not THE best 1v1 d/d ele in sPvP in the game with this build I can tell you it works. I only offered some alternatives that might make the build stronger in certain ways. The current iteration is what I prefer but I could see certain swaps with what I suggested that could make it more potent given the situation.
That was really impressive, usually don’t see phanta getting rekt in 1v1s like that ^^
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
It actually would make sense in Illusions trait line, and inspiration is actually the more phantasm-focused traitline (15% dmg on phantasms and whatnot) But IC is so kitten important! If anything, maybe move confusion on shatter to somewhere else? Hard to say.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
NO
please nerf turrets to be like spirit weapons instead
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Why are thieves crying “We only counter zerkers and not even mediguards, it’s not strong”. Have you considered that thieves with meta spec have insane mobility, stealth openers for team and more? Im sure you could spec fully 1v1 and be as good as many others, but of course you wouldn’t (same as mes specs shatter).
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Lol woot, do people think elites like plague form are weak?!
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Yep, 5gauge is right. It is bad design but it is needed for ranger atm. We will see how it will be if port spots are removed (power ranger)
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Im fine with it for my mes if they revert sword nerfs.
Edit: aka 2 and 3 cd
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
kitten i thought this would be a request to remove sigils in pvp (pls do)
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
I didn’t want to bump an old thread.
Power Block is a Mesmer GM Trait that increases the CD of interrupted skills from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. This does not work on thief weapon skills because, according to ANet, thieves don’t have CDs in the first place.
Anyway, here’s the thing, Power Block doesn’t work on thieves because ANet says thieves don’t have CD. Power Block’s tooltip says it increases the interrupted CD duration, so if it normally increase 5 to 10, then logically it should increase 0 to 5. So I see no reason this shouldn’t work this way. Thieves will get a mere 5 second CD when they usually get none? Meh, I don’t see how it would completely destroy thieves. Oh, but they lose initiative when you interrupt them in the first place, you say? Well, not always[a bug or something, they don’t lose initiative a lot of the time when they’re interrupted] and that goes for everyone[“Aw, but warriors already get a 5 second CD when they’re interrupted~” sounds ridiculous, really. Same thing for thief initiative loss when rupted, in the case that they actually lost it].
So, what’re your opinions, arguments, mesmer-hate, and thief-fanboyism you have for this topic?
PS, I don’t hate thieves, just annoyed about a trait tailored to ignore them.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block
It’s just original cd x some fixed % (Maybe 100% so it doubles but i don’t really know) for 10 secs, so you get let’s say x2 cd on that skill for 10 sec…
and last time i checked 0 (Thief skill’s cd) multiplied by any number (The constant % cd increase during dat 10 secs) still equals to…guess what? Exactly…
\thread
How do you know the specifics on how this trait works, that it works in percent?
because if it’s supposed to work like this (As devs already said is working as intended) it’s pretty obvious must be something like that
Why do you multiply by 0 ? Does the 0 represent the cooldown of the interrupted skill? It definately does not work this way…
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
The OP is not even asking to nerf thieves, HE IS JUST ASKING FOR A GM TRAIT TO WORK PROPERLY
Without any class bias.
Why are thieves being defensive?
The Trait requires you to spend 6 pts sheesh.
Okay, want a fair compromise?
It wont affect thieves, but make it an adept minor trait? Fair enough?
Fine by me haha (but for which trait line?)
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Guys do you not remember it did affect Thieves when it was added – but it also caused Stomping and Resing and Auto Attacks to be unusable for 10secs. This is why it doesn’t any more. You can ask them to look again and separate out what keeps Thief 0CD out from AA, Res, Stomp but it seems like a bit more work than most people are thinking.
Yeah this is most likely why they removed it. Honestly just make interrupts with power block drain 1 more initiative or something, i don’t know. As long as it works in some way. AAs and Stomps/resses i agree with. And if some people in this thread are worried it will be overpowered if it worked on thief, i promise you 99,67% of mesmers will not even run this trait.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Basically tier 3 is the highest up ledges and tier 2 are the ledges that are lower down.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Some customization would be great, but im worried people would just stack power and toughness (in a damage build) since they are usually considered strong stats and ignore healing, ferocity and such. Think of a power toughness ferocity amu with intelligence sigil for example.
Limit how much you can stack on 1 stat for example a char in full power as main stat full ascended with no food how much power he has would be the limit for power and so on. That combination you mentioned would get killed by condition and celestial builds,toughness is weaker compared to damage mitigation or control.
Toughness and damage mitigation and control are different things. Toughness is a stat, damage mitigation and control comes from your specific profession. You can have both at the same time. Mesmer for example already run no condi remove- it certainly is not needed. =)
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
“Something just as good”. Hmm. Considering history with the mesmer class, i think the Port Spot “bug fix” qualifies for this.
Jokes aside, i’m hoping for some cool mechanic replacing clones/phantasms or shatters. As long as it is active and not condi based, i’ll be happy!
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.
When did I ever say I had a problem killing thieves~?
This has nothing to do with me personally. It’s about a standard of truthiness[apparently a real word, too]. The skill’s tooltip says “Enemy skills that you interrupt have an increased cooldown”, so I’m saying that if a thief’s weapon skill’s CD is still zero after being interrupted, the trait is definitely not working as [I’m sorry if my math is off here] 0 is not greater than 0, thus it is not increased.
I didn’t realize that this was such a simple misunderstanding.
So, you’ve got the 5 second standard interrupt CD, time 0 because thieves have no CD’s on weaponskills. You apply power block, which doubles it.
5*2*0 = 0
Or perhaps it’s an addition, not a multiplication?
(5+5)*0 = 0
Any way you look at it, it’s working as intended. There you go, understanding achieved, thread closed.
If the “0” represents the CD of the skill, 0, how would your math work with skills on any other profession in the game? Let’s try “Ring of Fire” for example, with a cooldown of 15 seconds. We get: 5*2*15 = 150 seconds cooldown with power block. This is not how it works. If you are in fact implying ALL other skills except thief weapon skills and autoattacks are multiplied by 1 instead of 0, some other things you say are just not true. “The math is very clear”, for example. In no way do you know this is how power block actually works. You are in fact only guessing.
Furthermore it is a thoroughly nonsensical argument to compare power block to using distortion against an executioner thief. It literally makes 0 sense. There is a huge difference between making an active decision (be it activate distortion, equip a trait….) and just being immune to an effect by default. With your distortion logic you could say that obsidian flesh makes every single offensive trait in the game useless. There are infinately more points to make about the post here, but i think you get the general gist of things.
By the way, if you think thieves’ weapon skills can never have any cooldowns at all, you probably haven’t played the game long enough. Try stowing one of your weapon skills or pressing escape (thereby interrupting it yourself, if you will).
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
I didn’t want to bump an old thread.
Power Block is a Mesmer GM Trait that increases the CD of interrupted skills from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. This does not work on thief weapon skills because, according to ANet, thieves don’t have CDs in the first place.
Anyway, here’s the thing, Power Block doesn’t work on thieves because ANet says thieves don’t have CD. Power Block’s tooltip says it increases the interrupted CD duration, so if it normally increase 5 to 10, then logically it should increase 0 to 5. So I see no reason this shouldn’t work this way. Thieves will get a mere 5 second CD when they usually get none? Meh, I don’t see how it would completely destroy thieves. Oh, but they lose initiative when you interrupt them in the first place, you say? Well, not always[a bug or something, they don’t lose initiative a lot of the time when they’re interrupted] and that goes for everyone[“Aw, but warriors already get a 5 second CD when they’re interrupted~” sounds ridiculous, really. Same thing for thief initiative loss when rupted, in the case that they actually lost it].
So, what’re your opinions, arguments, mesmer-hate, and thief-fanboyism you have for this topic?
PS, I don’t hate thieves, just annoyed about a trait tailored to ignore them.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Block
It’s just original cd x some fixed % (Maybe 100% so it doubles but i don’t really know) for 10 secs, so you get let’s say x2 cd on that skill for 10 sec…
and last time i checked 0 (Thief skill’s cd) multiplied by any number (The constant % cd increase during dat 10 secs) still equals to…guess what? Exactly…
\thread
How do you know the specifics on how this trait works, that it works in percent?
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Oh look, thieves have executioner grandmaster trait, but you can make a distortion and avoid the dps. Welp … lets buff that GRANDMASTER trait and have it hit people through blocks and evasions and stuff. Yeah, seems fair!
Pretty sure every class can complain of other classes negating their grandmaster traits.
You can hardly get a bunker guard below the health threshold for the execution to work … OMG OMG NERF BUNKER GUARD BECAUSE THIS WAY HE EFFECTIVELY NEGATES EXECUTIONER TRAIT
wait what? o.O
Now if you are done posting jibberish, accept a simple truth. If you can’t beat a thief, you are not good enough. Also, there are classes/builds you simply can’t defeat in 1on1. Every thief lives with this mindset. Learn to do it as well.
/Thread.
P.S: Plus you are talking out of your kitten . Take D/P thief for example. If he fires Headshot at you and you block it, he is 4 initiative back. Maybe create a thief before posting bullkitten?
Also its like 99% of you thief crybabies forget that thieves get Revealed debuff on out of stealth anything…
What the actual kitten, this is not even remotely the same. lol.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Almost all teleport spots, yeah. For example on legacy graveyard you will be able to teleport to the tier 2 ledge but NOT the tier 3 ledge
Ahh in this case there must be a vertical range max of around 400 or so perhaps? Can you go from the second to the top?
Apparently so, yes
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Almost all teleport spots, yeah. For example on legacy graveyard you will be able to teleport to the tier 2 ledge but NOT the tier 3 ledge
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Ain’t a nerf, it’s a fix… and i’m speaking as former main thief ( now is my second).
Indirect nerf, and a big one. Speaking about that, i wonder if anet did this to buff other zerkers (ranger par example) or just to bugfix.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Some customization would be great, but im worried people would just stack power and toughness (in a damage build) since they are usually considered strong stats and ignore healing, ferocity and such. Think of a power toughness ferocity amu with intelligence sigil for example.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Do we know this is true? Any confirmation (red post maybe)?
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
AoE or move the trait to master perhaps. For me it would be enough if the clones really went on your target instead of their own targets, so it doesn’t randomly daze a flesh golem or a fire elemental (since DE clone target is the closest enemy to were you dodge).
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
+1 much simpler than making a whole new map and it’s sure to be liked! (Without water that is)
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
I agree sigils should be an addition, not show top dmg in death breakdown. Sigil of force accuracy bursting are good examples
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Why, why, why are people so insistant on using finals to prove that celestial is balanced / unbalanced? oRng and abjured ran the exact same ammount of cele builds. Necro is not a sustain class, it is burst just like mes thief guard and so on. Still i see so many people trying to justify celestial amu by saying “orng proved burst is better than cele stacking”. No, they did not. 6/10 was cele in finals and 3/10 zerker and 1/10 carrion (im guessing).
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Many people seem to use arguments like “ranger won vs top ele in wts so ranger is good”. What they seem to be forgetting is that s/t condi ranger is one of the best duelling builds especially since pets shine in 1v1s. Ele on the other hand has amazing teamsupport (heals party boons, mightstacking and more) far better mobility and is still arguably equal to ranger in duels. They are in my opinion not even comparable.
Some people also use particular players as arguments, which in my opinion does not work. You have to remember people like helseth, nos and so on are “specialists” (his own words). They have played their professons and mastered them for an incredibly long time. Again we can compare this to ele engi and war… we can’t use these players to represent the viability of a profession.
Also, bringing things up like dhummfire is not really relevant, the game can’t be balanced from a revenge standpoint “necro was good before so it needs to be bad now”.
Only my 2c, im openminded though so feel free to comment ^^
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
So…if we took Doom away (or weakened it), who really gets affected? I think it would be cele d/d eles and cele shoutbow warriors, who rely on doom to cut down on enemy sustain and then out-sustain them. Poison is very strong vs. cele users, and this is why cele builds use it.
On the flip side, giving cele eles and warr’s access to poison so reliably reduces the importance of poison from other sources. Perhaps if doom were taken away, the other classes that have high access (esp. rangers, necros, and engies) would be able to better compete and fill kitten in helping take down these sustain/bruiser builds.
Good point, it might make rangers more needed. Although i guess it would probably just make engis even better. Hmm.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Cele needs slight nerf, way to prevalent atm. Sure, zerker is common too, but it is partly due to cele being so powerful. Otherwise we might see some carrin/rabid/whatever again. And also nerfing air/fire would nerf most zerkers, especially the ones who get carried by sigil damage.
I also agree on nerfing geo/doom/energy somewhat. Sure some classes/builds are very reliant on these but that is a problem with the class itself, not the sigil in question. Perhaps necro needs more vigor or the others need less, but a sigil should never be game changinly strong (look at force/accuracy for good examples). Imho ^^
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
For brand new players (listed in order of easiest to hardest):
1. Turret Engineer
2. Ranger/Warrior
3. Necro
4. DPS Guardian
5. Other Engineer specs
6. Elementalist
7. Mesmer
8. Thief
For players who already know the game decently well mechanically/rotationally (easiest to multiclass and be effective high tier):
1. Warrior
2. Engineer
3. Elementalist
4. DPS Guardian
5. Ranger
6. Necro
7. Thief
8. Mesmer
Agree
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
I agree on this and also, supply crate is an elite that will chance the outcome of a fight. Despite that, it doesnt feel very active. (Neither does moa or lich form). None of the elites (that i can think of) have a “wow” factor such as a precice skillshot that does incredible damage.
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
After the charges, no. Since you will still have that charging delay that will lead to all sorts of problems
“all sorts of problems”
Care to clarify? ^^
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on
Congrats to the deserved win, the competition was so big that it must have been tough to win this qualifier. There were 4 teams, one of them i have never saw, one had 2 subs because of the age restiriction and one of them got DCs in every tournament since 4ever. But i really enjoyed it because you know what? THIS IS ESPORTS!!
hahaha so true sadly
Yaniam [Mesmer]
^ Usually only characer that i play on