Haven’t given this too much thought, but for CI just make it for example always blind or always chill for 2-3 secs. No rng, no cripple imo ^^. That might be enough, but otherwise make boon strip prioritize stability (might be wayy too strong) and remove rng from bountiful interruptions too and make it 5x might + fury/protection/vigor/aegis/…
^ would be cool in my opinion!
Very strong as it is, now remove cripple…lol.. I dont think so..same as bi..
“What trait additions, Removals, and or Combinations would push Interrupt / Lock-down Builds to be more reliable and Approachable?”
Im just saying something that might acutally make mesmers go for it over shatter in higher play, hard to say for sure though. And yes the BI and stability would very probably be too strong.
edit: Of course you are probably going to argue lockdown is already stronger in pvp because that is what 90% of people on mesmer forums seems to do =))
Haven’t given this too much thought, but for CI just make it for example always blind or always chill for 2-3 secs. No rng, no cripple imo ^^. That might be enough, but otherwise make boon strip prioritize stability (might be wayy too strong) and remove rng from bountiful interruptions too and make it 5x might + fury/protection/vigor/aegis/…
^ would be cool in my opinion!
I actually didn’t like the rank change, but some people probably did. I feel like in a game with such a long lifespan, it should be HARD to get to pvp max rank and be a dragon or a phoenix- a couple of years maybe. But then again, rank farming kind of ruined this vision a long time ago. In my opinion the old “slow” system combined with limiting hotjoin farming (perhaps max rank through hotjoins should be 30?) would be nice. Of course this isn’t going to happen, but its a fun prospect.
oRNG came back and won. Period. They had the players with the best skill. They were able to switch out professions to counter what TCG did. TCG had the same opportunities to switch out and counter…they were not able to do that. This was for serious money – they both brought the best they could do…unfortunately for TCG, they couldn’t “counter-comp” as well as oRNG this time.
Why did TCG split up anyway? Did they get in a disagreement regarding the direction of the team or something?
One can just as easily argue that, were it not for the disconnects and bugs oRNG wouldn’t have won despite their counter comping, and, in WTS there won’t be a double elimination so they won’t have the time to fiddle around to find the right comp to beat them with; it’ll come down to pre-tournament planning, individual skill on the chosen classes, knowledge of those classes working together, collective strategic ability, and ability to make critical decision and strategic changes during matches instead of before the next match.
words words words….oRNG won, TCG lost. I bet Helseth and Sizer wish they didn’t break up with ROM and crew now.
LOL it was ROM, denshee and tage that left because they wanted to play / practice more in the team. Get yo facts straight!
I think people are overrating the difficulty of playing this setup, at least the 30 Chaos one.
I have to agree, at least in some (many?) 1v1 matchups. In a bigger teamgight it can be hard to utilize. I would absolutely love interrupt if i could have CI, IP and DE by the way for now shatter is more fun for me
Im not that bothered by it but i have to say the might nerf does affect mesmer some with might shatters / or bountiful dissilusionment. You can sustain quite a bit of might
^ i don’t acutally care how strong / weak you personally feel it is, randomness is bad either way. Look at Engineer transmute. 100% stun or 50%+ daze duration sounds good to me, but i don’t mind as long as the randomness goes!
Wouldn’t it be cool if it wasn’t RNG? I say make it 100% chance to stun. To compensate, remove the 25% duration increase. At the moment this trait is overshadowed by CI and IP. This might make some people inclined to go 6/4/4 or 6/4/0/0/4
An alternative i guess is to remove the stun altogether and make it daze duration +50%
Chronomancers with the ability to inflict unique condition “clumsiness” which would be the opposite of quickness: skills activate 50% slower! I’m 90% sure mesmer specialization is indeed chronomancer, due to these concept arts: http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-06/gwe-concept-chronomancer2.html That is clearly a shield on the back that looks similar to the one the mesmer was wielding in the HoT trailer.
That would be so awesome considering you could then reliably interrupt short cast time skills
It’s a bit quick to judge anything, but he did mention that, with the example of ranger, specialized profession will have new heal, utilities, elites and most important of all, class mechanics. So I’m more interested in what will replace shatters than just the shield.
too many "s"’s here.
It was A new heal
New utilites and traits
A new Elite skill
A new Weapon
Changes to class mechanic (extremely vague could just be added conditions or damage boost, these do qualify as changes)
For instance the Ranger in the video still clearly had a Wolf Pet, there’s no replacement or serious change to the class mechanic there as far as i can tell.
Don’t you think its weird that they said “most importantly, new class mechanic” if they are just boosting stats. They probably realise such a small change would not be more important than new traits, utilities or a new weapon.
I don’t think it’s generally OP but it can be game changing for some classes. Also, why should people be punished for actually dodging something and playing right? That makes no sense.
That’s why Balth runes were changed, it’s not ok to have things that are unavoidable, especially when rangers with entagle are using them.
Well said, sir. Another example is bear F2 skill, which was changed to be avoidable.
In short: Shatter more reliable most of the time while CI is an opportunist, it can shine but it can also really fail. Shatter builds have low cooldowns on shatters and clone skills (decoy). This means that they can kite and survive more reliably.
That.. is not at all the short of… anything, dude. o_O
Shatter builds do not survive more reliably than CI at all. Theres no arguing that CI is significantly more survivable even with shatter having 4 second CD on decoy and a more frequent Distortion. CI doesn’t need to pop distortion nearly as often since it isn’t as squishy.
Both Shatter AND CI are opportunistic, but in different ways. Shatter has a more reliable BURST, yes, but the damage distance between the two isn’t that far apart. CI has more reliable, more frequent CC.
Again, I’m not saying CI is better but your facts don’t point out Shatter’s “clear” superiority.
I balked at Quadox reply to.
I’m just going to add on to Chaos here, It is also actually far easier to predict (or flat out see coming) a Shatters burst than the start of a Interrupt assault. One dodge, evade, or damage mitigation skill and Shatter is at a loss. On the other side, any attempt from the enemy to act lands him directly into the CI/rupt/lockdown Mesmers game, and at that point its to late. Even if the target breaks free his stun breaks and condi cleanses are limited, and the CI mes’s interrupts bountiful. Having a lockdown Mes on your tail is the single most harrowing experience in the game, and that’s even if you’ve had experience dealing with them.
Don’t wanna type too much but basically: A build with shorter cooldowns is generally more reliable because you aren’t punished as much for missing one. A longer answer would probably say that there is some unpredictability concerning mesmers without IP. Example is if someone destroys all your clones and you die because you weren’t able to use distortion. This could be considered farfetched i imagine.
Also, isn’t only 1 stack of each? lol.
It’s not like they are dropping a condi bomb on you
8 seconds of torment and poison (especially when someone’s trying to burst you down) can be game changing. It inhibits your ability to both move (safely anyway) and heal. One stack of bleed, not so much. But it’ll likely be the condition removed with a condi removal skill, not the torment or poison.
I’m not arguing that’s is OP at all, just stating that it’s a powerful rune, especially for builds with decent condi duration. Perhaps underused, at least imo. It can’t be dodged, true. But it only has a 360 unit range. If you anticipate an elite will be used, such as when a ranger’s rapid fire is off CD, moving out of the way during their cast may save you from the condi. As will knocking them back or otherwise interrupting them.
Yes, It is very much gamechanging, has been for me and i am sure for others as well.
Lol? The entire Necro class doesn’t strike you at all? Wells/ marks etc etc all unblockable. You yourself have things that are unblockable. Why don’t we nerf your unblockable skills first. The trait isn’t OP and is fine the way it is. No one uses Krait runes anyway (minimal to matter).
Except we are not just talking about unblockable, it is literally unavoidable, undodgable. If a ranger stealths and uses entangle, fair enough i should get the condis but not if he uses it in the open and i dodge.
idk… to proc it you have to invest in krait runes and use your elite skill…. it doesnt seem to OP. but im guessing it works well for putting condis on someone in stealth and that maybe the issue you have?
The issue i have is that i can dodge an entangle (most common example) and it doesn’t matter: i still get the condis. That is just bad.
In short: Shatter more reliable most of the time while CI is an opportunist, it can shine but it can also really fail. Shatter builds have low cooldowns on shatters and clone skills (decoy). This means that they can kite and survive more reliably.
That.. is not at all the short of… anything, dude. o_O
Shatter builds do not survive more reliably than CI at all. Theres no arguing that CI is significantly more survivable even with shatter having 4 second CD on decoy and a more frequent Distortion. CI doesn’t need to pop distortion nearly as often since it isn’t as squishy.
Both Shatter AND CI are opportunistic, but in different ways. Shatter has a more reliable BURST, yes, but the damage distance between the two isn’t that far apart. CI has more reliable, more frequent CC.
Again, I’m not saying CI is better but your facts don’t point out Shatter’s “clear” superiority.
Toughness will matter somewhat, but not nearly as much as distort CD does. Also, CI has NO decoy at all (not just 4sec shorter cooldown). That is, unless you aren’t running portal / IoL and if you are in fact running decoy AND daze mantra on CI, then why not just run daze mantra and decoy on shatter? Point is, there is nothing that gives CI more frequent CC unless you are giving up distortion.
Edit: nowhere did i outright say that shatter is “clearly superior”. Imo shatter is more reliable, CI more opportunistic but possibly with greater reward (when things go right).
If I’m not mistaken, Helseth, Misha, and Supcutie no longer play Mesmer competitively. Not sure about Zeromis.
You are mistaken
I’d like to catch some footage in that case. What was the last tourney they were playing Mes in?
Edit: Wait a minute waitaminute… You’re telling me 4 people who’ve played Shatter for like.. ever, are deciding the Meta for Mesmer? I know for a fact Misha has played some lockdown builds in tourneys.
EditEdit: Saw the clips. I am totally mistaken!
Many of them have played interrupt in tourneys a long time ago. Helseth played S/f interrupt. They just play shatter now probably because they feel it is better (like in your supcutie interview). =P
In short: Shatter more reliable most of the time while CI is an opportunist, it can shine but it can also really fail. Shatter builds have low cooldowns on shatters and clone skills (decoy). This means that they can kite and survive more reliably.
Barely anyone uses mesmers at all in tounaments. What is viable is simply what works best in the team comps that exist today, and glassy burst shatter isn’t that effective against cele groups.
Helseth misha zeromis supcutie to name a few. But you are right Mesmer isn’t as common as cele ele or cele engi.
Any time you feel like making a non-banal contribution to this discussion, we’re all ears…
Good job at not spotting the joke.
Anyway, just might want to answer my previous question: on what planet are you currently residing where CI is current meta? Or maybe you used a time machine, i wouldn’t know! =)
As standard 4/4/0/0/6 shatter, I used to solo queue and I found it to be super handy against thieves. and throwing a interupt bolt with halting strike is nice (although a tad unreliable until you practice it A LOT)
Your problem is your assumption as to why only shatter has made an appearance in top torny play. You could make arguments based on Mesmer vs Other classes as a whole, but you can also point fingers at those few top players who’ve run shatter (and not something different) themselves.
I’m curios about what “superior utility” shatter brings over lockdown builds. Is it portal? Because if its portal there’s plenty of room for portal on the bar as those builds aren’t so tied to their survival utils (decoy + blink).
In terms of CC, lockdown/rupt builds far outshine anything a typical shatter build can hope to dream of bringing to the table. Shatter is AoE burst damage with boon strip to keep it sexy. Other than that, Shatter Mes has to gtfo of the way almost all of the time.
The OP is rather mistaken. For a long time now, 20/20/30 CI shatter has been the meta shatter build to use.
It’s so meta that nobody ever uses it in tournaments. The forum fandom of ~r30 players does not reflect what’s viabe.
Barely anyone uses mesmers at all in tounaments. What is viable is simply what works best in the team comps that exist today, and glassy burst shatter isn’t that effective against cele groups.
Disagree with this completely. Shatter is actually a huge counter to the cele Meta, if you lose to a cele engi/ele 1v1, you were likely outplayed. It’s funny how shatter Mesmer (The biggest counter to the cele meta imo) hasn’t been able to form a counter meta. The reason is actually because of how much cele bruisers outperform bunkers atm. Mesmer is not a self sustaining profession. At high level team play, you need to co-ordinate with your ‘Carers’ so to speak. And traditionally that’s always been the thief and guard to assist the Mes. The problem is, bunkers have been 100% replaced by cele bruisers, as they hold a point just as well, 1v1/2v2 better, have more mobility, and more dps. This only leaves room for self sustaining professions, hence why we are seeing 4 cele and S/D thief teams (All specs with there personal self-sustain). This leaves a Mesmer in a match-up vs the infamous S/D thief + the combined condi pressure that all cele’s bring and suddenly it’s a tough life for the shatter Mes.
TL:DR – Shatter Mesmers are the perfect counter to the cele Meta, but Bunkers have been completely eclipsed leaving the Shatter Mes without the support it needs. A buff to bunker guards will see shatter mes back in the meta imo.
Gotta agree with this guy if I am at range and not fighting on the point I can kill cele classes – which is why Shatter> CI
CI does not have enough damage and is way too reliant on teammates for the burst – CI does not add any damage and if your teammates do not coordinate with you the immob is worthless
The biggest reason Shatter > CI is being able to use the shatter skills without any clones or illusions – For example you just MW for a burst and you get counter pressured and want to use F4 but do not have any clones up
Also the double ranged is superior – CI is better with a focus or pistol I can not give away the damage of GS or the superior defense of Staff
Just my 2c
Meh. With CS I can achieve the same thing (kill the cele) but I don’t have issue of just laying down whenever that Thief comes along.
As for CI, yes it has less damage but that’s what solid interrupt gameplay is for. If you’re chain interrupting and locking the target out of his skill uses, he’s done for.
As for IP no clone shatters. Great thing to have in your handbag but MoD is just as instant, comes with at least 2 casts, and is on a much short CD than Distortion. And so long as a CI mes has at least 1 clone up (not unlikely, easy to produce), he gets Distortion too. Shatter is so squishy he needs that on demand distortion. CI isn’t so dependent.
Your problem is your assumption as to why only shatter has made an appearance in top torny play. You could make arguments based on Mesmer vs Other classes as a whole, but you can also point fingers at those few top players who’ve run shatter (and not something different) themselves.
I’m curios about what “superior utility” shatter brings over lockdown builds. Is it portal? Because if its portal there’s plenty of room for portal on the bar as those builds aren’t so tied to their survival utils (decoy + blink).
In terms of CC, lockdown/rupt builds far outshine anything a typical shatter build can hope to dream of bringing to the table. Shatter is AoE burst damage with boon strip to keep it sexy. Other than that, Shatter Mes has to gtfo of the way almost all of the time.
The OP is rather mistaken. For a long time now, 20/20/30 CI shatter has been the meta shatter build to use.
Your problem is your assumption as to why only shatter has made an appearance in top torny play. You could make arguments based on Mesmer vs Other classes as a whole, but you can also point fingers at those few top players who’ve run shatter (and not something different) themselves.
I’m curios about what “superior utility” shatter brings over lockdown builds. Is it portal? Because if its portal there’s plenty of room for portal on the bar as those builds aren’t so tied to their survival utils (decoy + blink).
In terms of CC, lockdown/rupt builds far outshine anything a typical shatter build can hope to dream of bringing to the table. Shatter is AoE burst damage with boon strip to keep it sexy. Other than that, Shatter Mes has to gtfo of the way almost all of the time.
The OP is rather mistaken. For a long time now, 20/20/30 CI shatter has been the meta shatter build to use.
Actually yeah this is very true. “Shatter” i.e. IP + faster shatter recharge rate doesnt really bring anything additional to the setup over 4, 4, 6 CI lockdown. Only no-clone shatter (which is only for the self) and more frequent shatters. CI traits, stat, and weapon loadouts are far superior. Even CS with appropriate weapons etc is superior because it offers a counter to thieves.
Interrupt/Lockdown is more difficult, but far far far superior. The feats you can pull with it are almost ridiculous in skilled hands.
Okay. Incredible mightstacking, cooldown on illusions, reflect, extra bounce for pressure and burst. These are not to be neglected.
Yes please, any form of jumping pussle (in areas blocked by invisible walls?) would be extremely nice! I especially like the idea of a big repeatable one. Sometimes i find myself jumping around exploring hotm for hours, lol.
It’s not intended behavior, and we will be fixing it.
Edit: (Specifically the ability to increase the healing potential of Signet of Restoration by cancel-casting Lightning Whip after the first half of the animation.)
Grouch if you change spatial surge (and remove air/fire) as well mesmer will struggle. alot. Please remember this!
Edit:
Interesting, so as we know, the unintended benefit from stowing Lightning Whip is specifically healing, which is now confirmed unintended.
However, there’s no specific mention of the unintended damage benefit from something like Spatial Surge. I don’t feel like Mesmer needs an adjustment down, but it does contradict the logic behind changing stowed auto-attacks.
Very true, also i guess grouch specifically stated that they are going to change the SoR interaction with lightning whip, not remove the ability to stow it. So i guess mesmer might go safe for now!
It’s not intended behavior, and we will be fixing it.
Edit: (Specifically the ability to increase the healing potential of Signet of Restoration by cancel-casting Lightning Whip after the first half of the animation.)
Grouch if you change spatial surge (and remove air/fire) as well mesmer will struggle. alot. Please remember this!
standing right in front of the necro trainer in lion’s arch, he’s just saluting me O.o. Tried queensdale as well.. nothing. this is some weird kitten :P Ill use my exp scroll and try at lvl 20 then thought its kind of a waste of scroll
Talk to the trainers in heart of the mists, that should work
Gz to orng
for now shatter is more fun for me
