Guild Wars 2

Nuzt.7894:

One or two seconds is all we would need, do you see mesmers all dropping portals at the same time ? You would have to coordinate those stuns. I can assure you I play a Warrior, if you think stacking CC is the way to go then your entitled to that opinion but don’t kid yourself that killing players that cannot fight back = skill. I don’t blame you though I blame games like WoW for making MMO’s so brain dead easy that it’s become an expectation.

“Can’t fight back”

You can blind, block, dodge, evade, counter-CC, use stability, avoid with leaps/teleports.

You’re right, you’re utterly defenceless.

Xillllix.3485:

Ragnar.4257:

Xillllix.3485:

increase the aoe limit for light classes somewhat proportionally to their lower health pool.

You’ve said this twice now.

Don’t post again until you’ve gone to check what a guardian’s health pool is, and compared it to all 3 light classes.

Thank you.

Huh did I say something against guardians? I’m all in favour of increasing aoe limit for guardian as well!

Well, let’s see now:

Xillllix.3485:

I proposed in another thread that it be proportional to the class armor type.
Heavy armor: aoe limit: 5
Medium armor: aoe limit: 7
Light armor: aoe limit: 10

Xillllix.3485:

- Reduce the HP differences between Light-Medium and Heavy classes.

Guardians are a heavy class. Don’t be facetious.

aspirine.6852:

Lol at the get out of the way comments. A train of 30 just is everywhere and yes I can dodge but only so much.
And my necro has so much access to stability of course.

You can gain 50% uptime on stability from 1 trait line. That’s more than nearly every other class.

Xillllix.3485:

increase the aoe limit for light classes somewhat proportionally to their lower health pool.

You’ve said this twice now.

Don’t post again until you’ve gone to check what a guardian’s health pool is, and compared it to all 3 light classes.

Thank you.

Kalan.9705:

Fix retaliation (post crit lifesteal/heal changes) so that hammertrains can be aoe’d without the ranged being forced to stack to try and heal the perma ret. Unstacked ranged should be the answer, but horribly designed retaliation mechanics and uptime prevent the natural counter from being possible.

There should never be an “answer”. Hard counters make life boring.

A well co-ordinated melee train should be able to defeat a less well co-ordinated group of ranged players.
And a well co-ordinated group of ranged should be able to defeat a badly co-ordinated melee train.

It should not be the case that melee can always be defeated by ranged players spreading. Not should it be the case that melee can always defeat ranged. Hard counter = bad.

As the game currently is, a well co-ordinated group of ranged players can definitely defeat a less well co-ordinated melee train.

lordkrall.7241:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

True, but Anet has shown time and time again why this attitude is the way to go. They ignore players and do what THEY want…Even if players dont want it.

They do what they think is best for the game. And you have to keep in mind that they have WAY more information about what is best for the game than anyone on these forums does.
The people using the forums are after all a minority of the actual player-base and it is very likely that they are gathering information from other sources than the forums alone.

No, they do what is best for sales, not best for the game. The two are often the same, but not always.

To be honest, that’s fair enough. They’re a business. It’s just a shame that they’ve decided to go for the “low investment, low returns” option, ie. small incremental updates in order to keep just enough interest for the gem store to turn a profit, rather than the “high investment, high returns” option, ie. expansion-pack levels of development and content for a higher price.

I know I’d be happy to pay £30 for some major additions to the game. A new JP each month…. not so much.

While you’re levelling up, just use Green gear appropriate for your level, upgrade it every 5-10 levels. Buying rares/exotics that you’ll out-grow in a few hours is a waste of gold, save it for something nice when you’re 80

Kontrolle.3514:

Rednik.3809:

rhapsody.3615:

Remember, they want to avoid the “power creep” at all costs! We can’t have those ele’s catching those warriors.

I also remember how those poor, weak eles was able to engage 1vs3 and actually had pretty real chances to win, AND was able to disengage at any moment. That ridiculous OPness of ele as roamer (not just mobility) was a main reason for RTL nerf.
Now plz, show me GS+1H_Sw+Wh warrior killing 3 ppl at once, I really want to see that.

I roam with a warrior-buddy that owns 1vs3 more then once a day.
He uses GS / Sword and bulls charge without any ascended items. No you wont get the build, we dont need more people to abuse this.

I play with hammer+GS + bullscharge and its enough to retreat/reset in most cases.

It doesn’t matter what build you’re using, or what class; if you’re able to win a 1v3 it means the 3 are awful, awful players. 1v3 has nothing to do with OP builds, and everything to do with mis-matched skill levels.

A basic degree of competence from 3 players makes it impossible for even the best player in the game to win.

Melee train is always going to be a “thing”, whatever you do to boon-stripping.

Melee characters have to accept a risk/reward deal. The risk is that you take too much damage before you can get close enough to unload your own damage. The reward is that you can usually do more damage in melee than you can from range.
The best way to minimise the ‘risk’ part is to gather lots of melee and charge together at the same time. This is true in every game, whether MMO or RTS.

So if your intent is to make melee-trains a thing of the past, well, you’re just going to have to remove melee players altogether.

Healing spring cures 5 conditions, not 1. It cures 1 per pulse, but it pulses 5 times.

Besides that you also have:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit_of_Nature
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Purity

Ranger isn’t the best class for dealing with conditions, but it’s still a long way from being worst.

Maybe if you didn’t keep bringing 5 people to fight 1, then people wouldn’t use such builds.

I now pretty much only roam as either Usain-Warrior, PU Mesmer or perma-stealth Thief, because 95% of 1v1/2v1 fights quickly turn into 10v1, and so the ability to disengage at will is essential. Roaming as any other class can be fun for a while, but will sooner or later end in frustration. Engis, Eles and Rangers can sometimes manage to disengage, but only if the enemy is bad. There’s no point even trying on a Guardian or Necro.

I’ll tell you something else though…. I would never ever bring the Usain-Warrior to a duel / fight-club. You know why? Because it’s a horrible build for 1v1, and any decent player will have no problem at all putting it down. It’s a one-trick pony for trolling bads, not a god-mode.

I wonder when you’ll notice that any class built for condition duration completely shuts this build down?

Folie.7980:

Kitsune.4280:

Folie.7980:

the actual point of the thread

A thief and his 5 friends unable to catch a single warrior? Well, looks like a great l2p issue as for me, at least unless those 5 were a necro with 4 minions… Not sure if this is a cause or an effect of such a lame pastime as zerging down solo targets w/ your group.
Cheers.

can you people even read or think or
k lemme spell this out for you

this isnt just about thieves, i swear mention thieves once and you guys sperg all over the place

Dear Folie

This is the original post, you might want to read it.

Grebcol.5984:

Hei Anet comon whats up with that bullkitten? This troll warriors who runs like Usain bolt and 6 Guys cant chatch them? Pls regulate this its stupid right now to play as a roamer.This class can do every thing,this is unfair unbalanced.they have highest Def/HP and can resete every fight so.
Also with Thief,two shadowsteps and with shortbow,25 % movespeed i cant catch these guys,what the hell?
Pls adjust the range from warriors charge skill this is to much!

This is why people are talking about thieves. Because the OP brought it up.

Now please go away.

Why ever do you think you deserve any more “chance to fight back” than you already have? Did you not have a chance to fight back when you weren’t downed?

Downed state is already too strong. If you’re downed, you got beaten. Accept it. Don’t cry for yet more ways for the game to hold your hand, that you want the enemy to have to defeat you twice before you go respawn. The downed state as it is is already more than you deserve.

While this would be an improvement, it would still leave most of the problem unsolved.

Total server population over the course of weeks/months isn’t the main problem with population balance. The problem is on more of a minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour basis. You can have servers that are roughly equally matched in ppt/population over the course of an entire week, and still have massive imbalances during certain parts of the day.

And if you can only play during those parts of the day, the fact that your server benefits during the other parts is of no consequence to you, you still get stuck facing a hugely imbalanced fight.

TS isn’t really necessary for following a karma-train or mega-blob-zerg around. People in this thread saying “I manage to follow commander and get lots of kills without TS and don’t die”; yeah, of course you do, because that’s what pug-zergs are like and 95% of the time they require no skill or co-ordination beyond basic common-sense and awareness.

However, if you think TS won’t improve your performance, then you couldn’t be more wrong. When you see 20 guys wiping your zone-blob, the biggest factor in their ability to do that is TS.

Frankly, alot of people who say you don’t need TS, don’t actually know what they are missing out on. Not just “stack”, “push”, “fall back”, there is plenty more to it than that. Ignorance is bliss.

It just depends how much you care about success. TS won’t turn you from a noob to a pro by itself, but it is absolutely necessary at the top-level.

RS BL: Next Challenger Please!

Cheers for the excellent fights VII, DAWN, TUP, Mya, HoB. DoA and CNTK, random fightclub outside Hills ftw. This is shaping up to be the most fun matchup since before Leagues

I honestly don’t see many people actually taking it over healing signet.

Warrior never had any trouble dealing with burst-damage (which is what this heal counters). The problem warriors have always faced is sustain (which healing signet covers pretty well), and this new heal looks useless for sustain.

Remember the hysteria when they introduced Destruction of the Empowered for warriors, about how it was gonna be stupidly OP? Yeah, nobody uses that either.

If you want a quick fix to keep people satisfied for the next ~6 months, then most people would be happy with just 2 changes:

1. Customisable tag colour/shape.
2. Ability to set squad as public or invite-only and options for tag to be visible to everyone, squad-only, or guild-only.

If you wanted to go longer-term and deeper into commander functionality there’s obviously a huge number of possibilites. A few that come to mind:

1. Commander can replace skills-bar, or have additional skills-bar, with Commander “Shouts” skills. These have no combat ability, no buffs or damage, but they allow the commander to quickly get instructions out without having to stop and type. Being able to have skills that shout (either via audio or flashing up text on screen) “Stack and Regroup”, “Push Through”, “Fall Back” or “Conceal Yourselves” would make commanding without voice-comms a hell of alot smoother.
2. In an ideal world, voice-comms would actually be built in to the game, allowing commander to talk directly to squad. Never gonna happen, but that is the dream.
3. Allow Commander to drop signal flares/beacons. Not just flashing dots on the mini-map, I’m talking pillars of light reaching into the sky, maybe different colours for different meanings.
4. A complete Squad information/UI page, that everyone can see but only commander can edit, showing everyone in the squad, their class, their supply, and assign them tasks, groups or ranks. Maybe a message-of-the-day or shout-box, somewhere that could direct people to Teamspeak channel, etc.

I know I’m slightly jumping the gun here and assuming the outcomes of the final week’s matchups, but some I think are safe to call. And I’m impatient. I’ll update this if any of the predicted results change.

So was Season 1 a complete waste of time and went exactly as expected, or did it instil a fresh sense of competition and chaos, full of heroic climbs and heartbreaking defeats?

See the attached image (at the bottom of this post) for how things actually went (assuming the final week goes as expected, my assumptions are in the image).

This is only EU so far, as I haven’t been watching NA closely enough to be able to make a reasonable guess at the final week. I might get around to it closer to the end, or if anyone wants to do the analysis I’ll gladly edit it into this post.

The first interesting thing to note is that the final rankings, predicted by the initial rankings and the matchup schedule, are nearly identical to the initial rankings, except that 3 and 4 always trade places. I guess some of you knew this from the first week, but I hadn’t done the counting until now and was surprised by how well the schedule and scoring method reflected the starting positions.

Now to the actual results:

Gold League:

Both the top 2 and bottom 2 servers remain the same, the only real movement comes in the middle ranks.

Vizunah and SFR swap places at the top. Not really a major upset. Most people had their money on SFR before the Season started, but nobody was counting Vizunah out of the running either and many suspected Vizunah might shift up a gear once the season started. However, this result has produced some of the most amusing QQing and trolling in a long time :P

The real upset in Gold League was the complete collapse of Riverside. Jade Sea and Baruch Bay both made decent gains, partly at the expense of Riverside. I’m still not entirely sure what caused the collapse of Riverside, and I’m on Riverside!

Silver League:

The big story here is the under-performance of Abaddon’s Mouth. It was expected they’d face tough opposition from Deso and Gandara, but it was assumed by most that they were guaranteed a top 3 place. I have heard rumours that quite a few Abaddons transferred to Kodash and Elona, perhaps explaining Kodash’s slightly better than expected performance.

It didn’t surprise very many people that Desolation suddenly shifted up a gear after their mysterious nose-dive from Tier 1 down into Silver League.

Other than that, the only interesting movement is Far Shiverpeaks and Gunnar’s Hold swapping +/- 3 places. I know FSP had some guilds join at the start of the season explaining their better than expected performance, but I don’t know why Gunnars underperformed.

Bronze League:

A very static Leauge, 5 of the 9 servers don’t move at all.

However, despite the lack of movement, the numbers hide the fact that Drakkar Lake have been dominating this league far more completely than the initial rankings could have predicted.

The only major upset is the rise of Ruins of Surmia at the expense of Dzagonur and Blacktide.

I like the idea. Zerg camp flipping does take alot of the strategy out of the supply aspect of the game.

However, I see a couple of problems.

Firstly, Dolyaks are far, far too easy to kill, even when defended. If a decent thief wants to kill a dolyak, then you need upwards of 10 players to stop him. A dolyak is basically impossible to defend against a large group, even if your entire zerg is defending. If Dolyaks were to become, effectively, the only source of supply on the map I imagine it would be very very easy to completely starve a team of supply, and that would probably end up being the weaker team, making it even harder for them to try and catch up.

Secondly, people are impatient. Just because you have to escort dollies to get supply, doesn’t mean people will actually start to do it. And, to be honest, rightly so. 90% of the time escorting nothing happens, it’s boring, and it’s not what people want to do in their leisure time.

As I said, I like the idea, because it would definitely make the game more strategic. But there would have to be some significant changes to how Dolyaks work in order to offset the above problems.

It was obviously gonna be a mess on the release day, with everyone wanting to have a look and most of them having no respect for a duel or an even fight.

We can’t really judge how successful this place is until it’s been in the game for a few weeks. Hopefully by the end of Season 1 most people will be ignoring the place and it can be used for its intended purpose.

There are many many things I’d like to see added or improved, but as a quick-fix it’s a definite improvement and a welcome show of good will.

Keiel.7489:

I would say the only dishonorable people are the ones who use cheat via exploits, third party programs and/or purpose sabatoge another servers resources (man power, supply, VOIP).

Why?

I mean, if all’s fair in love and war, as people here are saying, why is sabotage or hacking any less honourable than ganking a lone guy with 20?

Because it’s against the rules? That’s not honour, that’s just looking after yourself. That’s like saying the reason you don’t burn babies alive is because you might go to prison.

I just don’t understand why anyone would want to be, or take pride in being, one of a hoard rather than the outnumbered hero braving the odds.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/129659/3267513-vlcsnap-2013-08-26-13h48m23s52.png

Why are you proud to be one of the guys on the right?

Scissors: “Rock is so OP. Needs diminishing returns.”

Rock: “L2P. It’s that stupid Paper build that needs looking at.”

Scissors: “What, you can’t even beat Paper? lol, that just proves you’re a massive noob hiding behind an OP build. Paper is face-roll easy to beat.”

Solstice.1097:

Ragnar.4257:

Solstice.1097:

Ragnar.4257:

WvW isn’t supposed to be fair or balanced. Remember?

Your comment is irrelevant to my post. You’re referring to a dev post that it will never be balanced like sPvP is, which is true, but clearly there is a common goal for the matchups to be as exciting and fun as possible within the imbalanced system.

I’m just suggesting we find a more accurate way to rate servers that accounts for the pre-season transfers as well as a schedule that makes a bit more sense. It would appear the schedule was designed specifically to avoid ties instead of to achieve fun.

You’re asking for a system to allow the server-ratings to properly reflect the transfers that happen pre-season. Why? So the schedule properly reflects the strength of servers. Why?

Because you don’t want the season to be decided by a poor schedule rather than how servers perform in their matches. You don’t want some servers to have an “easy” schedule and get an easier ride to the top of their league, possible beating better servers who have a “hard” schedule.

Face it, on some level you want a fair competition. You don’t want it 100% balanced in every tiny detail like sPvP, but you do want it balanced to an extent, at least in terms of the schedule.

If you actually have no interest in fair competition, why do you care about the schedule?

But it appears to me that you do want fair competition, to a reasonable extent. Sadly for you, and the rest of us:

DevonCarver.5370:

At no point did I, or would I have, said “Fair competition” WvW is not intended to be “fair”.

I think you’re exaggerating what Devon was saying there. If you’re simply saying nothing will ever be done, then you are mistaken. The servers already WERE matched by rating. Why? Because it’s more fair. So there is immediate evidence that yes these things are taken into consideration.

I don’t see that evidence at all. The first week of the schedule has the servers in the same order as the random-matchups left them, but after that it’s pretty random. I see no evidence that the schedule is designed to reflect the rating of servers.

In EU gold league, servers that were T1 at start have more matchups against servers that were T3, than against other T1 servers.

Solstice.1097:

Ragnar.4257:

WvW isn’t supposed to be fair or balanced. Remember?

Your comment is irrelevant to my post. You’re referring to a dev post that it will never be balanced like sPvP is, which is true, but clearly there is a common goal for the matchups to be as exciting and fun as possible within the imbalanced system.

I’m just suggesting we find a more accurate way to rate servers that accounts for the pre-season transfers as well as a schedule that makes a bit more sense. It would appear the schedule was designed specifically to avoid ties instead of to achieve fun.

You’re asking for a system to allow the server-ratings to properly reflect the transfers that happen pre-season. Why? So the schedule properly reflects the strength of servers. Why?

Because you don’t want the season to be decided by a poor schedule rather than how servers perform in their matches. You don’t want some servers to have an “easy” schedule and get an easier ride to the top of their league, possible beating better servers who have a “hard” schedule.

Face it, on some level you want a fair competition. You perhaps don’t want it 100% balanced in every tiny detail like sPvP, but you do want it balanced to an extent, at least in terms of the schedule and matchups.

If you actually have no interest in fair competition, why do you care about the schedule?

But it appears to me that you do want fair competition, to a reasonable extent. Sadly for you, and the rest of us:

DevonCarver.5370:

At no point did I, or would I have, said “Fair competition” WvW is not intended to be “fair”.

WvW isn’t supposed to be fair or balanced. Remember?

If there was one class that was “deadliest” in all situations, everyone would be running it.

If we ignore all melee classes/builds, as you say you prefer ranged, then that at least narrows it down a bit.

For fighting in large zerg fights from range, you’re looking either at Ele or Necro.

For solo/small-scale fights at range, your best bets are mesmer, engineer or pistol-thief.

It’s very difficult to build yourself for maximum effectiveness in all situations. You need to pick an area to focus on. If you prefer roaming, create a roaming build and accept you can’t do much in zergs. Or if you prefer zerging, create a zerg build and accept you’ll probably have alot of trouble solo. If you try and build for both, you’ll end up being sub-par at both.

Just delete it all.

Have you seen the ascended armours that are rumoured to be coming in December? They all look like trash. And the difference in stats between full (all 6 pieces) exotic and full ascended is 36 points (plus, I guess, the difference in defence). Less than 4 stacks on your stacking weapon. Less than 1 stack of Applied Fortitude.

It’s actually kinda a relief that Ascended Armour can be completely ignored by WvW. It’s a win for people who want balanced play. Also, I’m about 300 gold richer simply by knowing I don’t need to worry about this :P

The “reason” is that it’s supposed to be a form of character progression.

That’s fine if you only have one character, but many people have several characters. On top of that, I’m pretty sure 90% of WvW players don’t give a kitten about “character progression”. That roleplay stuff is what PvE is for.

You can’t compare WXP to regular XP/Levels. Regular levelling can be completed in less than a week; within a few days your character can be on an equal footing with everyone else in terms of traits/stats/abilities. This is not true of WXP.

If WXP should be character bound for the sake of “character progression”, then so should karma, gold, laurels, badges, and any crafted items (including ascended/legendary). After all, why should you be able to get a legendary/ascended item on a character if you didn’t put the effort in on that character?? HurrDurr.

I suspect the real reason is that it’ll take a fair amount of developer time to change the system. After all, it took nearly a year to get the Wallet implemented. And PvErs are valued customers. WvW doesn’t stand a chance.

Ask yourself, are there any other rune sets that entirely dictate the rest of a build. In what other situation do you start with the runes and then build the character around it, instead of building the character and complimenting with runes?

That alone is proof there’s something wrong with them. Perplexity isn’t a rune-set, it’s an entire profession in itself.

Are there any other runesets where within 2 seconds of engaging you know the enemy is running them?

The issue is not whether Perplexity can be beaten. Of course it can be, bad players are still bad, good players are still good. The issue is that they are far superior to any other rune-set.

Simple solution: limit the amount of damage a gate can take per-second to what a group of 15-20 can output, so ~3 rams and 20 players worth of auto-attacks.

This means a group of 80 can’t melt a gate in seconds, but a smaller group can still be effective.

So organised group co-ordinating their boons beats disorganised group of randoms with no co-ordination.

And this is a problem why?

goldensurfer.8406:

Ofcourse WvW should not be balacned

If it shouldn’t be balanced, why are you complaining about rank 27 facing rank 18?

You’re complaining about imbalance, and asking for balance. Then you say it shouldn’t be balanced.

??

goldensurfer.8406:

The typical scoreboard of WvW in whiteside rigde server:

World 1: +550 points
World 2: +80 points
Whiteside rigde + 50 points

Im done with this season. its getting boring like this. oke 1 week of being dominated oke we might become better. but 4 weeks in a row it is going on like this we and keep losing players because of this.

" lets take our keep back"
“gj team, we are at innergate, hurry, one more gate.”
“$!*$1#!, incoming”
" )(!U!!245#!J!@#(!$*! D

Didn’t you get the memo? WvW isn’t supposed to be fair or balanced. You WILL enjoy being kitten on. YOU WILL.

Sreoom.3690:

Sorry. Still am wondering what if…

Like I said, people would idle in spawn until they could play again, so they don’t incur the penalty for not getting enough wxp before leaving.

It would significantly increase queue times.

The aim is clearly to have as many people afk in spawn as possible.

Duh.

If you’re willing to listen to advice and learn, then WvWers will forgive you your initial noobiness and accept you with open arms.

Its the ones who point-blank refuse to listen and don’t give a kitten if they ruin it for everyone else who aren’t welcome.

Gotta love the try-hard medium-armour players trying to convince themselves they’re wanted.

Rangers, Engi’s and Thieves are all fantastic classes for small/medium scale (less than 15 per side). Indeed, they’re 3 of the strongest classes for it. But they simply don’t scale up for the large fights. When you take it to more than 20 per side, they just can’t compete.

The reason for this is quite simple: AoE is king, and medium armour doesn’t bring any. Almost all the AoE damage a medium class can deal is condition damage, and the larger the group you’re targetting, the more AoE cleanses they have, the more irrelevant conditions become. In terms of direct damage, medium classes don’t really have any AoE. Piercing Arrows are incredibly situational and unreliable, Grenades hit like a wet noodle (if you ignore the condi-damage), and ClusterBomb…. you can drop it 4 times then you have to just stand there doing nothing.

Don’t get me wrong, they’re still monster classes in small scale, where single-target damage actually means something and conditions tick for more than 1 second. And of course they’re not 100% useless in large scale, they can contribute in a small way. But the point is there isn’t really anything they can do that other classes can’t do better. Ranger for waterfield? Ele can do that, and more. Thief for blast finisher? Guardian/Warrior can do that nearly as well, and do a ton of other stuff. Engi for AoE conditions? Necro does it better. Engi for group buffs? Guardian does it better.

Jack of all trades, Master of none.

Is defence too strong, forcing servers to attack in overwhelming numbers?

Or is offence too strong, forcing defenders to either go over-board with defensive seige or resign themselves to loosing an objective within minutes?

5 guys, with 4 superior carts and 1 treb behind a reinforced gate, can pretty much prevent anything short of a full zone-blob from getting in to a keep. Which means small groups of 5-20 players won’t even attempt to attack structures if they are defended.

Also consider that upgrades like cannons, mortars, and extra guards, don’t scale with the size of the attacker. Cannons, mortars, and lvl 82 guards can allow even 1 lone defender to stop a small team of 5-10 attackers. But that doesn’t scale up. If you change that to 10 defenders against 50-100 attackers, suddenly the cannons and guards are meaningless.

Does that mean that defence is too strong and promotes blobbing?

On the other hand, a 100-man zerg with 20 golems is basically impossible to stop unless there are 30+ defenders inside a T3 structure, and all of them on superior seige.

Does that mean that offence is too strong?

Are there any ways for defence/upgrades to properly scale with the size of the attacker, meaning a T3 structure is equally challenging for both a 5-man team or 100-man?

Which came first, the Blob or the AC?

ShredsAndPatches.3417:

I play wvw a lot. I also play the rest of the game, but wvw is probably the thing I’ve been most excited about for a while now. So since I can’t claim to be a noob anymore, but I’m still pretty confused, I guess that means I’m just… a bad.

And I might be on your server. So how about some advice? I have some questions. Just off the top of my head:

1) PUSH! PUUUUUSH! Number one thing commanders berate their troops for (btw, commanders, please don’t berate your PUG troops? We’re just trying to help, we have other fun things we could be doing): not pushing on command. Well, I do. I stay right on that blue double-triangle. And often that means dying almost instantly. Then I read forum posts about light- and medium-armor wearers who hang back and work on trickery and picking off stragglers and “the backline” of squishier characters to good effect. Can… I be part of them? Maybe me dying soaks up a little AOE that would have gone to more valuable players, but I’m not convinced that’s the best use of my game-given talents. I also saw a reddit post recently saying it’s wrong to try to provide air support from a keep wall (using siege weapons or ranged skills) instead of following the commander on a sortie, even if melee isn’t your specialty. Really surprised me.

TL;DR: How does a “backline” coexist with “PUUUUSH!”?

Specific sub-case: charging into the mouth of a keep where you can see about 20 red circles lying in wait. You know you’re going to die, then you die. What’s the point? Are you supposed to be doing something different?

2) siege refresh/tick timers. I don’t get this at all. I’ve read that you only have to use the siege for a few seconds to refresh it, and I’ve read that the decay timers are visible. Yet, the only indicator I see on siege is a yellow horizontal bar like a health bar, and my using said siege has no effect on this bar, no matter how long I stay on or whether I fire the weapon. (I haven’t actually tried staying on for more than half a minute at a time since I read it was supposed to be seconds and come on, ain’t nobody got time for that!)

3) People keep posting that you shouldn’t waste supply on repairing walls. Maybe this is a server-specific thing? It seems to me that when your commanders have made it clear, usually verbally, that they don’t intend to defend a structure (more XP for flipping), why not use the supply? It’ll be your enemy’s in 30 seconds. Sure, it’ll be yours again in 5 minutes, but then it’ll be theirs again in 10, so… why not get the achieves? Obvs this is situational.

1. PUUSSHHH primarily applies to the heavies, the warriors and guardians. The squishies, particularly Eles, Mesmers and Thieves, shouldn’t attempt to be right at the front of the push.
However, that doesn’t mean backline shouldn’t push with the commander. Backline should stay close enough to lay damage/support right on top of the commander’s position. You shouldn’t be at the very front of the charge, but you should still be close.

With regards to your specific sub-case: Dodge. You have 2 dodges, use them to get through those circles. Most classes also have access to block/invulnerability or to some sort of leap/teleport.
The key thing to learn is to not blow your dodges or other survival skills when you don’t really need to, and to save them for when they’re really vital.

2. When you select a seige weapon, there’s a small blue icon on it’s “buff bar” that shows the timer when you hover over it. It’s the same as checking the buffs/conditions on any other player/NPC.

3. If you truly have no intention of holding or defending a structure, then there’s no reason you shouldn’t pick up the supply there.
However, if you do intent to hold it and upgrade it, you absolutely should leave the supply in there alone.

As for repairing walls, this is something that you should never, never, never, never do if the wall is still being hit by catas/trebs. It should only ever be done when the trebs have been destroyed. Burning 500 supply repairing a wall being hit by 3 trebs won’t stop them eventually getting through. At best it stalls them for another 5 minutes. All it does is it means you now don’t have that supply to build arrowcarts/ballistas at the inner.
And even if you do get the hostile trebs down, if the structure is upgrading you shouldn’t repair the wall beyond what is needed to get it back up and stop enemies walking in. Use supply from supply camps to repair the wall the rest of the way, and leave the supply in the keep for the upgrades.

That said, if there is genuinely no hope of holding a structure, then go nuts with that supply. If it is 100% guarunteed that the enemy will take the objective, then might as well deny them the supply inside.

TLDR: Common Sense.

WvW isn’t supposed to be fair or balanced, remember?

: /

EDIT: For some reason I thought this was the Collaborative Development thread. Apologies for not being entirely on topic.

Who cares about the points?

If you can’t get any further than your spawn tower and are constantly fighting 1v10, does it really console you that at least you’re doing okay on points because of some handicap?

If you’re going to just give points away like that, then you might as well have no points at all.

The reason we have points is to give a purpose to all the fights and seiges. They aren’t an end in themselves, they’re just a tool to give structure to the fights.

The problem is that most fights and seiges are horribly unbalanced, and no amount of smudging and fiddling the points and saying manically “you’re all winners!” is going to make constantly losing 1v10 any more attractive to the average player.

Suggestions based around stat buffs/debuffs, loot/WXP changes, adjusting how PPT works, or anything else to enable or incentivise 10 to fight 80, is just plastering over the problem and not really helping.

The problem is that it is 10v80, and the solution will involve changing that to 45v45. Anything else is inadequate.

Unfortunately, the only way I can think to do that is to completely cut the link between PvE servers and WvW, but of course that will never happen.

If a guild rejects you for not having full ascended, then you just made a lucky escape. Because that’s a guild you don’t want to join.

How about we let thieves 1-shot everything. Not just massive damage, I mean instant kill no matter how much HP, and no downed state. And golems only take 1 supply to build, but T2 gates take 5 days to research. Allow mesmers to portal any number of people, anywhere on the map, whether or not the mesmer can even get there to place the portal. Guardians heal everyone on the map 50k hp every time they take a step. And lets nerf rangers down to only doing 1 point of damage with each attack.

Hey, it isn’t supposed to be fair or balanced right? Might as well just go wild.

Sirendor.1394:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

While I understand your point i’m afraid I have to disagree, while I recognize that clearly adding any skills to the game will allow any person to buy them it’s important to keep in mind that perception and motivation are powerful factors to consider. Experienced players are already confident in there abilities whereas newer players are not. I feel that this or at least something in a similiar direct could really enable newer players to dive into WvW. At that point forward I agree it would be best to get them to log into ts and forums and such, but players will never use those resources without first being confident and feeling enabled.

How are new players going to feel enabled when they’re getting rolled over 20vs100 buy an immortal hardcore guild that can never die because they have massive buffs to downed-state?

Most of the time the organised guilds are <20 and they face 2 or 3 times their numbers of unorganised players with success. This is normal, that’s what they trained for.

You don’t have to tell me that.

What is being suggested here would allow them to take on 5 or 6 times their numbers, instead of 2 or 3.

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.

While I understand your point i’m afraid I have to disagree, while I recognize that clearly adding any skills to the game will allow any person to buy them it’s important to keep in mind that perception and motivation are powerful factors to consider. Experienced players are already confident in there abilities whereas newer players are not. I feel that this or at least something in a similiar direct could really enable newer players to dive into WvW. At that point forward I agree it would be best to get them to log into ts and forums and such, but players will never use those resources without first being confident and feeling enabled.

How are new players going to feel enabled when they’re getting rolled over 20vs100 buy an immortal hardcore guild that can never die because they have massive buffs to downed-state?

Omne.4603:

Ragnar.4257:

You realise that your suggestions won’t help new players at all? If a buff is accessible to everyone, then it helps the veterans just as much as the newbies. Infact, it helps the veterans more, as they know better how to take advantage of it. So, instead, newbies are actually disadvantaged by your suggestion.

I’m all for ways to make it easier for beginners to get involved in WvW, but these suggestions are just horrible.

As many progression based players are keen on wxp abilties, what specific trees what you suggest instead?

Any kind of direct buff to combat is just never going to work. The way to get people involved in WvW is to make it easier for them to access community forums and teamspeak, beginner-friendly wvw-guilds, some decent guides/videos explaining gameplay/builds etc. and to make them feel a part of the community.

If you give a buff, you give it to everyone, which as I’ve explained, doesn’t help newbies at all.