Strange- I find running around in the zerg to be really boring. More than 15 people in one place and I start wanting to split off. I bet voice communication is a big part of the difference here- I don’t have to be right there with 40 people to know what’s going on. I get to snipe yaks or take a camp but still run back in once a wall is almost down- or my buddies can go do that while I protect the siege and tell them to come back for a fortification cap.
I’m not talking about 40 people doing PvDoor. I’m talking about large scale battles of 30 or more people trying to take a heavily defended garrison for a long period of time. It’s a blast. The only downside is that it’s very dangerous, and so you have a pretty good chance of dying. Of course then all you need to do is run back, but if you die more than a couple times it might be frustrating. It’s anything but boring.
I could go off and sniping Yaks and taking camps too, but that’s too much PvE for me.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Apparently I missed the memo that it’s alt-f4 when downed week? The number I’ve seen in the last 1.5 days is crazy.
It’s funny. I’ve noticed it too. Seems maybe all the people complaining about it on the forums backfired, and now a whole bunch of players who didn’t know anything about it suddenly do.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
That wasn’t me that said it. Even if it was, why would you not take the high ground and continue discussing it respectively?
Ok, you’re right . That wasn’t you, and I’m sorry about that. I don’t know why I should “take the high ground” though. If people can’t take insults they shouldn’t throw them.
I wasn’t using it to deny your effectiveness.
LoL… That’s EXACTLY what you were doing. I’m not lost in the conversation, you just say things and then try to change the meaning later.
you can’t seem to grasp anything that I am saying. So yeah,
let’s agree to disagree.
Doesn’t seem like you’re very good at making your point, so yes, lets.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
I ALWAYS stay away from commanders who believe bodies are what is needed to take an objective for hours. There are times when you can take it which is ok, but if you have wiped out 2-3x already just pack it up and call it gg. It personally is just too demoralizing to do that, now its a different scenario when defending, revive and run back to objective asap and defend with your life.
I would do that too… but often when I go look for something else to do. There’s not much. When you have a good sized lead in points, and the enemy really isn’t doing anything to take back SMC, or challenge your own border lands… there isn’t much else to do but go into the enemy garrison and chuck grenades at the guys on the wall, and rez the fallen.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Not enough to dent the scoreboard. But keep playing for 2nd, if that’s the goal.
Hey, man. It’s all the guys we have to spare. Not sure you realize how undermanned Maguuma is most of the time. We hide it rather well with our mobility, but sometimes we can’t even afford to send 5 men into CD’s borderlands. Today we had the space to send 10 or so and we tried to take all we could before we got called back for keep defense. Definitely not playing for second. Just have to be careful to not overextend towards CD and have Ehmry Bay eat all our stuff.
Sure. I understand that, and I know it’s frustrating. I feel for you guys. Like I said, we were in that same boat against TC. The point was that we use our numbers to our advantage, and that keeps you guys from being able to do much else.
I have a lot of respect for both Mag and Ebay to be honest. I just don’t get why they can’t extend that respect to us.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
No no no. Not one bit. I’m trying to say that while both get the intended result, opponents do not see it as honorable/valid/insightful. I thought I said this multiple times? Zerging is a tactic, and a valid one. People just don’t respect it because anyone with half a brain can throw bodies.
Yeah…. You compared how disrespectful a strat “zerging” it is to hacking. It’s exactly what I said.
Concerning ourselves with points and the scoreboard isn’t the general play style
If that’s how you want to play, great, but don’t come in here acting as if you’re some superior strategist when you’ve simply got a different goal than we do, and it doesn’t envolve coming in 1st. One of the things I love most about Crystal Desert is that we play to win, even when outnumbered. We don’t generally run around looking for the easiest targets. Even in tier 3 when we were HUGELY outnumbered, our main focus was higher point targets held by the 1st place server. Even if that meant failure going against defended points. Why? Because avoiding the most important point gaining challenges is not how you will EVER take 1st.
In my opinion, trying and failing is much better than not trying at all. If you’re just playing for yourself and not to win, how good is that for your server?
We are losing, badly, and have been. Do you honestly think we aren’t aware that anything our small groups accomplish is frivolous in the grand scheme of it all?
When you use those frivolous accomplishments as a means to deny the over all effectivness of the winning server’s plan… I honestly do wonder if you’re understanding the bigger picture at all. Yes I do.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
I don’t necessarily see it as a bad server seeing as you are right, you have nothing to lose, but i sometimes wonder how the other players that charge there with your commanders feel, like they are almost being led to imminent death. My example for this would be the endless assault on bay keep in EB bl, countless siege and bodies sacrificed, for nothing while EB takes back their keep in the east from you guys, eventually i think that group got really demoralized because they never came back in force later, and everything they tried to even cap our supply camp we would snag them (both EB and CD). Hell we were able to build a waypoint for that keep finally at 6am in the morning with max supplies with 8hours of nonstop siege frmo both servers, but it flipped sometime this morning i heard.
PS
to the guy who trebbed our keep for HOURS and nothing came from it, i really feel your pain, because i confine myself to treb duty sometimes and if nothing comes from it, it feels like a waste of time.
Those are good points. I’ll only personally stay with a commander who’s leading us into death traps for a very short time. It’s up to everyone else how long they want to stay there.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
It’s funny you say you can keep us busy while you’re failing at doing something, because we still send groups into other BLs, even when under heavy seige. There are also solo groups roaming around that do what they want. So we’re still capping things as you throw bodies at Garrison.
Not enough to dent the scoreboard. But keep playing for 2nd, if that’s the goal.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
I read this in Sun Tzu chapter 420 titled Stalling Enemy Points-Per-Tick by Corpse Bombing. Watch out, this guy is a master strategist and keeps up with the important literature.
This game isn’t real life my friend. There is no “Corpse Bombing” in Sun Tzu because in real life you can’t die more than once.
THIS IS A GAME. When we already hold 75% of the map there is no downside to zerging your garrison. It keeps you from splitting into smaller groups, retaking key positions, and spreading our numbers thin. We lose NOTHING in that anyone who dies can return to the fight.
The idea that this is a bad strategy, is, as much as you want to pretend it’s not… just more bitterness at losing.
The main thing you’re missing as well is that if we were to split into smaller groups and just sit around defending / upgrading, we’d be having less fun. I for one WvW to fight. Not to upgrade keeps for no reason.
You’re too busy reading Sun Tzu to know that a less fun strat means less people interested in coming into WvW. Maybe that’s part of your own server’s problem. Think about that.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
I hate to be the person saying this (again) but it’s one of the reasons you moved down the tier. You’re winning against populations with fewer numbers but when you face the same thing, you get your face kicked in and seem to not learn anything.
This isn’t really true. When we move up a tier we are the ones who are heavily outnumbered. There really isn’t a lot of chance to “face the same thing” in this game, unless maybe you’re in tier 1.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
It’s like saying: "Let’s just hack their keep, it works, we win. " Yea, it works (despite the obvious reasons for not doing it), but it’s not a respectful way to do it.
That’s ridiculous.
Running in a large group has absolutely zero relation to hacking.
What some of you seem to miss here is that CD is WINNING on the score board. Why not keep attacking that heavily defended garrison with our zerg? Even if we don’t take the place, we’ve kept your whole server busy for so long defending you end up losing for the week.
Just because you fail to see the point of what we’re doing doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
I’m just saying, i don’t think its cowardly to walk away from a fight you think you can’t win, in fact it just means tht commander leading you is smart.
Sure. But, that wasn’t the accusation against TC. Some of our players accused them of only fighting against undefended points, even when they were in a huge zerg that likely could have won. They would simply run away, avoiding any opposition.
Personally, I don’t like to judge entire servers by the actions of a few… I’m just clarifying the difference so that it can’t be insinuated there is some type of hypocrisy going on.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
But to come in here and make claims that we’re an “unskilled zerg server” is just silly. If we’re so unskilled and easliy wiped by smaller groups…. why don’t you have more points on the board?
I will tell you why we don’t have more points.
The people that often wipe the zergs have no interest in taking keeps/towers, they enjoy killing players and have no interest in attacking a door for 5 minutes.
So it’s ok if your group is “mindless”, as long as it’s small? Was that your point?
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
So if you pound on something for hours and call it a flaw that means its not unskilled or zerg-like, interesting… well anyways… anything else interesting going on?
I called it a flaw, didn’t I?
Attempting to take a garrison or castle that is heavily defended is a daunting task, and while we sometimes spend too much effort on certain goals (in my opinion) that really doesn’t equate to a lack of “skill” as much as it’s just a willingness to keep pushing against difficult challenges.
I also find it very funny that you long time tier 4 guys call us “zerg-like”… try fighting TC some time.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
The fact that the zerg is mindless just adds salt to the wound, because we’re not losing because the enemy is playing smart, it’s because they’re just overwhelming us with numbers.
BUt the problem with this whole argument is that if the zerg is actually “mindless” they wouldn’t actually be gaining us anything. The fact that we’re winning, sort of proves that zerg itself is a smart tactic.
Does it work because of numbers? Yes, it does. But it still works. I don’t see how basically capping the entire map can be considered mindless at all.
Okay, I know the guy you were replying to is an idiot but don’t you go all hurrdurr on me too. When the zerg takes out everything, it leaves us vulnerable and forces to play defense (running supplies, protecting yaks, upgrading, scouting). Because of this, we don’t have much breathing room to be offensive and take other things (thus getting more points for us). Also, the five hour window that the zerg takes to cap things rack up a nice points per tick for them.
Sure I can see this, and I’m sure all three servers have very skilled players capable of taking on larger forces, and coming up with excellent strats to win. The problem comes about when people come to the forums talking bad about the server that’s winning, calling us mindless, and a “zerg server”, as if the fact that we’re winning each week has no meaning at all.
You (not you personally) can rant and rave about how “mindless” we are, but if the strategy is working, it can’t be too bad.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
[Edit] you wipe every time when its equal numbers, don’t kid yourself. Lol
I’m starting to see why Mag and Ebay can’t get along. To many of you making posts like this, and showing no respect for the people you’re going up against.
As a CD player I see larger zergs wipe against our smaller groups all the time. It happens on every server.
Mag is very good with the siege weapons in the lords room / inner keep and CD tend to be very single goal minds, often pounding on the same spot for hours. It’s one of our flaws, but also one of our strengths in that we don’t give up easily.
But to come in here and make claims that we’re an “unskilled zerg server” is just silly. If we’re so unskilled and easliy wiped by smaller groups…. why don’t you have more points on the board?
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Maybe your post about solo players should focus on actually helping solo players instead of suggesting that they should stop being solo players. Otherwise not a bad overview
I agree. The solo player write up is pretty bad.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Don’t WvW to earn gold. PvE to earn gold and WvW to smash faces.
This type of thinking is what keeps PvP / WvW from being a popular and rewarding focus of the MMO genre, while raiders gets things like ascended gear.
No, no Raincrow, you got it all wrong.
That IS how it works. It should be more rewarding than it is right now. I was not commenting on how it should be, I was commenting on how it actually is.
It is better for people to know how it is than expect a filet mignon when all they will get is a happy meal without the toy.
That’s great and all, but I’m personally tired of PvPers / WvW just rolling over and excepting that we get treated poorly compared to PvE players.
Those of you saying “I make lots of gold” are missing the key points.
If you make lots of Gold in WvW you’re playing a lot and doing well, so of course you’re not effected by repair costs. The people who ARE effected are the average player. The casuals who don’t come here and brag about the gold they make in WvW because they aren’t making enough to brag about, and end up just going back to run dungeons and fractals.
As I said this keeps WvW / PvP from becoming the focus of the game. It will never be as popular as PvE because the people who love WvW the most just want hardcore mode with more punishment than reward and aren’t willing to fight for anything that might bring more MMO players into it.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
No, you were wrong. We aren’t scared of the next tier at all. We just like to see interesting matches where all 3 servers are in it.
Our last fight in tier 3 was a blast. We were way outnumbered, but we did well, and never gave up. This week it’s nice to see the 2nd and 3rd place servers still in there giving it a great fight.
No point trying to gain a HUGE lead and making the match boring, so I personally don’t PvP as much with my main unless my server really needs him. I would love to move up to the next tier again, and even eventually hope to see us make a run for #1.
So maybe we slack off a bit when we’ve got a lead… but that has nothing to do with being scared of tier 3.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
So I must thank both Mags and Ebay for fighting it out and making my evenings interesting. I say this not because CD is winning but because we here on CD are fighting 2 servers that are true competitors.
This ^
Well said! Can’t wait for the reset, lets come out fighting!
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Imo, WvW has enough gold sinks in tower/keep/supply camp upgrades and siege equipment. Repair bills in any PvP game are definitely unnecessary, and promote cowardice in battle. It’s simply an archaic design and should be done away with.
/agreed
Upgrades and such are gold sinks that have a positvie effect on the game, since those with lots of money have somewhere to spend their gold.
Repair costs are a negative Gold Sink in that it only hurts new and casual players, which keeps those people from going into WvW at all.
I would much rather play a game that encourages people to enter WvW than one that discourages it.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Don’t be silly, nobody actually uses fight club as a measure of skill, it’s just a good way to have fun and relax with people you normally don’t relax with. Unfortunately neither of you servers see it that way
I’m not the one being silly at all. The guy claiming that one server has more skilled players than another based on how many skilled individual players he’s fought is the silly one.
I don’t care about fight club in the least. It’s just not something that matters in WvW at all.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Mag and Ebay are more skilled then CD on average. I haven’t met one person from CD who has given me any sort of challenge
I always think it’s funny when a person uses their1v1 fights as a way to judge a server’s WvW ability.
Maybe our more skilled players are using builds meant more for group vs group warfare and are actually origanizing other players and taking towers/keeps/castles etc. instead of running arund solo trying to win at “fight club”.
Think about it.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
If PvE had the reward system that WvW has there would be outrage all across the forums. For some reason PvPers have always settled for less, and that’s why we continue to get it.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
In fact, one of the strongest WvW abilities in the game, blocking treb shots, can be done by a naked level 1 elementalist using a white focus. You can’t keep a tower wall standing all by yourself but you can make it take 2 to 3 times as long to knock it down (3 eles could protect a wall from a treb indefinitely)
Can you go into some more detail here? What do you mean by a “white focus?”
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Problem is… and I hate to say it…. thieves again. If you made it even harder to revive other players the tactic of thieves corpse camping would become a nightmare.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
1. Most people I know do thoroughly enjoy fractals and THAT’S why they do it.
I’m sure there are people who enjoy it, but there are also many who don’t, yet they’re still there for the gear. I’m sure many people may also enjoy them the first few times, but doing the same fractals over and over again? If not for fractals being the only way to get the best gear currently in the game, many people would be doing something else.
2. The game does not “bribe them to be there”. They don’t have to if they don’t want to. The rings that drop aren’t going to be a major factor.
Whether or not the rings are “needed” doesn’t change the fact that fractals are the only way to get them, and they are currently better than any other rings in the game. They put that gear there for a reason, because they want to encourage people to do fractals. Not just once to see the content, but to do them over and over again. It’s a bribe.
3. I make money in WvW. It’s not difficult. If you’re constantly upgrading stuff then I can see how you might lose it, but that’s what guild banks are for.
Whether you’re having guildies pay your way or not, you don’t make anywhere near as much money in WvW as you could in other high level content.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
I agree with this as well. Don’t see the point in having it there in the first place.
The point is that there’s small scale pvp possible in an open’ish environment with a lot of terrain to use to your advantage that isn’t time nor objective controlled (sPvP matches).
Since WvW is the GW2 version of open world PvP I think it’s a nice inclusion to have something for the ganker / camping style players as well. Unless severely outnumbered it offers better chances for that playstyle than on the rest of the WvW maps where you always risk being zerged during that epic 3v8 battle.
They could have all that without it being a JP though. Make it a WvW control point instead, so it has importance in the actual war.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
When 50 people blame a rendering issue on their inability to counter one single player, something must be done, but it is not the something you obviously think it is.
If it was “inability” they wouldn’t just have a problem with just thieves…. they’d have a problem with every class in the game.
The fact is, not one single other class would even consider trying to hold a point against a group of high level players, doesn’t matter if it’s 50 or 5.
Only a thief can jump solo right into the middle of a group of enemy players with a very good chance of downing one or more in a matter of seconds…. and then just disapear while hitting a killing blow, then get away to do it all over again in a very short time.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
CD camped the jump puzzle in eb with around 15players at least, during 10pm-2am the other day, i was trying to get chest n went every hour or so, it was the same group of players, eventually i just gave up.
Yeah… I get that, I have nothing against camping the Jump Puzzle, regardless of which server does it. My point was that when people complain about any server camping the JP, they need to get over it.
We’re not friends out there.
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
Thanks to all CD players up top in puzzle today for letting me stay alive up top to knock about 15~ people off, I was laughing so hard everytime.
15 ppl? Its cool if its true story. Otherwise..BUTTHURT
I knocked off about 15 people and killed around 20 or so, took about 8 SS at various points. I was able to get stealth over and over, only 3 of them actually went after me each time Id go back to stealth and I finished all of them. If all people up there actually went after me Id have only knocked off 2-3 guys at best.
The sad part is, when we were up against Tarnished Coast all they did was complain about how much CD camped the Jump Puzzle. So this week we let people live and look what happens…..
Crystal Desert; The Viking Server
When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?
