Guild Wars 2

To Niim…. by the big picture, I didn’t mean so much the week long battle, as an over all impression that your server is serious about / good at WvW. Losing for a week or 2 isn’t that big a deal, but if I were on a server that lost week after week, and basically continued to press a strategy that didn’t ever give a real chance to win, as much I’m all for server loyalty, I’d likely look somewhere else. That’s not an attack against any server in particular, just in general. Though I’m partial to CD, I think all the servers in this tier are pretty great in different ways.

To KrazyFlyinChicken…. Thanks for the clerification. I see what you mean now.

Fluffball.8307:

Under no circumstances would I NOT interfere with a 1v1 fight. Either my guy needs help, or he’s wasting every one’s time in WvW. Either way, we need to kill the opponent so we can both move on to take the tower.

This ^
Well said.

Ilesyt.7084:

It’s all you cowards-who-seek-safety-in-numbers’

I always lol when I see people who think fear is involved in video gaming choices.

Honnor.6295:

Raincrow.1840:

When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?

I believe this is about the best response to 1V1, Jumping puzzle, Zerg complaining that I have ever seen on the forums.

It made me laugh, AND.. is so logical that it makes it silly to even bring the above complaints up.

Anyway 27+ Rep to you Raincrow* You would be welcome to fight with me and mine any time.

PS< you should make that your forum Tag, its just to funny.
lol

Haha thanks for the kind words!
Forum tag… hmmm, sounds like a good idea!!

Uberlicious.3956:

i enjoy farming… and it allows me to blow 100’s of gold a month on stupid crap…

See what I mean?

I don’t have a problem with somone who enjoys farming. But the fact that he can do this, while people who spend the same amount of time in WvW can’t = a broken game.

People should be encouragerd to take part in the actual game, not farm for easy gold.

Tulisin.6945:

I would put forth that since WvW action affects far more people than PvE action, there is much greater profit potential in WvW in a service sense, even if PvE is clearly superior in a goods sense.

Are you trying to argue that more players take part in WvW than PvE? If so I wonder where you’re getting that idea.

Tulisin.6945:

There’s a lot of potential to capitalize on services in WvW, but few have yet bothered.

Explain?

When are people going to figure out there’s a war going on?

Agree with the guy above me ^

I find Grenade spec Enginner to be one of the most useful classes / builds in the game. One of the best at clearing walls and defending towers as well.

My only problem with it, is the constant spamming of abilities. 5,4,3,2,1,1,1,1,1, repeat, which gets old pretty fast.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

3) Why are we double teaming Faction C? We should be Killing Faction B.

Good post up there. I agree with almost all of it, except this one point I quoted. The reason I don’t agree with it is you’re missing the bigger picture. I could tell from reading your post you were on FA, because this is basically FA’s game plan consistently from weekly reset on.

While sending your zerg in to take easier targets might seem like the ideal tactic, it’s really only hurting you in the long run. Your server will never put itself in the position where you have a real chance at 1st place, and that’s going to hut your morale, not only over the course of the whole week, but as a WvW server in general.

Sure you might take some keep or camp’s from the 2nd place server, and that seems like a win. But in reality all you’ve done is force the 2nd place team (who should also be attacking 1st) to turn their attention on you. Not only have you forced yourself into a situation where you’re the ones getting double teamed (by two stronger servers than you) but it’s allowed the strongest server ample time to bulk up it’s defenses and secure a greater point advantage on the board. You’ve traded a few small wins for the over all grand loss. The idea that this is good for morale is a bit short sighted in my opinion.

A good commander doesn’t give up on a chance at winning from the start or hide from real challenges. He attempts to develop a winning strategy, to take hard targets, to keep the strongest of enemies off balance, and inspires courage and confidence in his soldiers that it can be done.

Uberlicious.3956:

i cant speak for the rest of you but when i got out into WvW each night its to have fun and kill people , the loot isn’t even on my mind, if i need money i can throw on a mf set and farm pve for a bit… but at the end of the day i wvw because i enjoy it.

That’s great and all, but you shouldn’t have to stop doing the part of the game you enjoy, and go do something else because the enjoyable content is ripping you off. That’s just bad game design.

Forsaken.2167:

If your suggesting that the loot system is in no way affected by their business strategy you are sorely mistaken.

Why would I suggest that? Don’t turn this into a strawman argument, please.

My actual point was, as you said….

Forsaken.2167:

Yes you do make more money in PVE

That’s all there is to it. PvE is a much faster way to make money / gear than WvW… MUCH faster. MY question is why is WvW treated as a gold sink, instead of being at least equally rewarding as PvE?

If the answer is that PvE is a time sink you’re just wrong. I can spend hours a day in WvW, running supplies, upgrading, defending, etc. and never make anywhere near the amount of gold / loot I’d get running events in Orr. Heck I could make more farming in low level areas for that matter.

Obviously they’re going to try and limit the amount of money people get becuase of micro transactions, but that doesn’t mean it’s fine for some forms of content to make a good deal less than others.

Forsaken.2167:

In a microtransaction game, the loot system is a business plan. The GW2 loot system is there not for your enjoyment but to ensure that the players don’t receive too much. Sorry that is just the cold hard truth and I can’t say I blame them. If you were a developer trying to make money on microtransactions you have to be sure people aren’t getting filthy rich in one of the most fun/popular parts of the game like W3.

If that were true you wouldn’t be able to get rich doing any types of content. Why is WvW one of the few types of content that gets treated like a gold sink?

The drop rate must be really bad, since most players have somewhere in the thousands as far as kills go, especially including NPCs…. and only a hand full have ever gotten loot of that quality.

CD player here….

That video is a good example of how to stop Golems but it shouldn’t be used as some type of gauge as to IOJ’s abilities in PvP. Every server is obviously going to have some less experienced players making mistakes.

I also wouldn’t say that the Golem’s were badly piloted, looks more like the problem there was planning. They didn’t have enough foot soilders to take the oil down and the Golems were stuck in no man’s land.

6 Golems vs the breakout tower was a bad choice from the start.

Saweth You Him.9047:

I could care less about reward in WvW.

Thanks for fighting to keep WvW broken ^

Part of the problem with the game now is that there really isn’t any point to trying for 1st place, so basically 3rd place just pushes against 2nd place because it’s an easier fight.

If there was incentive to take 1st place, the 2nd and 3rd place servers would both have a reason to push aganst 1st. This would make matchups more balanced across the board.

Instead, both 1st and 3rd just beat up on 2nd, which insures the winner won’t change.

Rhyis.7058:

Raincrow.1840:

That’s fair…. And I’m glad you guys enjoy yourselves, but if you don’t care about how you’re perceived in the forums, you can’t really argue when others percieve you in a less than flattering way.

We beat CD in the WvWy’s. Maguuma is the peoples champion.

What??

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

I don’t think Maguumans in general care so much as how we are perceived as much as we care about having fun. I think we are the first server to drag the grub to red keep and green keep all in a day’s work.

That’s fair…. And I’m glad you guys enjoy yourselves, but if you don’t care about how you’re perceived in the forums, you can’t really argue when others percieve you in a less than flattering way.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Pretty sure you got trolled. Because only a few Maggies actually have the mentality you describe lol.

Well it’s too bad they didn’t pop into their own match up thread and take part in the 2 week debate. Would have been nice to have a true discussion.

Rhyis.7058:

I don’t remember being part of this conversation that this dude is talking about, so apparently I was supposed to save this Rainbow guy from a troll guild nobody cares about.

I didn’t need “saving” LoL, and it’s funny you think it was just one guy when it was far more than that. What you could have done though was take part in a discussion that was going on, and maybe made your server look good. Instead, I guess you let people you think of as trolls do all the talking.

On a side note, Bunzy has been on this server longer than 3 weeks.

Bunzy.8674:

This thread has nothing to do with Maguuma or any server as a matter of fact, stop going off topic.

Down state is fine. Skilled teams who know how to deal with it can use it to their advantage, even in smaller groups.

It just needs balance because some down skills are better than others.

Rhyis.7058:

Raincrow.1840:

And no, you don’t defend better than “pretty much every server out there”…. There are three tiers above you with servers who do everything better than you guys do.

Score and defending are completely opposite things. Some servers don’t even try to defend locations. They let it fall and recap the thing directly after. I can name 3 servers within T1-3 that are like that.

Yeah, you’re right “some” T1-3 servers are bad at defense, my server is one of them. CD doesn’t defend well at all. However, there are servers above you that defend much better than you guys do. Likely some of the servers you would name as being bad are in reality better than Magoooma, but you guys see things through a biased lens in which your server is the most skilled WvW players in the game, and it’s simply not the case.

I agree with you, and what the major flaw in WvW is, but I don’t think mixing the matches would fix anything. In fact it might make it worse. Tier 4 and below servers who got the unlucky draw to face a tier 1 server would get stomped far worse than they ever would in the current system.

In my opinion what needs to be done is some form of system that combines the lowest ranked servers in a team with the highest ranked, so that populations could be more easily balanced, and matchups would have an extra component of uniqueness each week.

Cactus.2710:

Bunzy.8674:

If you want a game where skill prevails over numbers its time to get rid of or drastically change the downed state.

The cards are in your hands anet, I hope for your sake you play them right.

While numbers do make a major difference, you need to revise your definition of “skill” if you’re talking WvW (you do know this is the WvW forum, right?) The dominant skills in WvW are the team strategies and tactics that it requires to take, fortify, and defend objectives. If you don’t believe that you’re on the wrong server, or more likely, on the wrong playground. It sounds like maybe you belong in sPvP.

I spent 2 weeks trying to explain this to Bunzy and Magoooma server. ^

Every once in a while I forget that jumping borders or switching characters can kill you if you’re not in a perfectly safe place, and when I get back in I start dead.

You know what I do? I move on. It’s like 1 silver.

The amount of extra loot bags I’ve got now that quitters can’t Alt-F4 their way out of combat makes up for it 10x over.

They should take the silly 5 man dungeon out of the personal story and make it a live event. Everyone in the area battling a giant Dragon would be epic.

5 man group dungeons aren’t epic. They’re old news.

Gasoline.2570:

This has never been my experience. What I get is map appropriate loot, like level 1-15 loot from queensdale no matter if my char is 80 or not. I wish I was getting level 70-80 drops in lower zones, would give me a little incentive to go back there,.

You do get high level loot from low level mobs if you’re on a high level character. You also get the low level loot, but sometimes it’s scaled to your own level (Unless it’s changed within the last few weeks). Or maybe you just havn’t tried it enough or been unlucky.

Ele has more AOEs than just the meteor shower, and can basically drop a new AOE non stop. The ranger’s AOE is on a pretty long cool down, so most of the time you’ll just be doing single target damage.

However….. As a person who doesn’t group often, I get more loot as a ranger because I can drop single targets myself and I get loot that way. As a staff Ele, I do far more damage against zergs, and likely tag many more enemy players, but I don’t do enough damage on each player to get much loot.

So if loot is all you care about, you need to decide if you play mostly solo or mostly grouped. If you group, go Ele, if you solo go ranger.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Raincrow.1840:

CD seems to be hurt more than most servers by things like holidays, events, and PvE. Anyone else agree?

I think that means that we either have people who value family over the game, or we have a lot more casuals. Regardless, try us again when we don’t have a holiday to celebrate.

I’m on CD myself. I don’t think it’s just because we have a large number of casuals, even some of our most active commanders were gone most of last week. It does seem that many of our players are very quick to log off when things aren’t going our way though, so maybe it’s casuals who are doing this.

I do think our players are spending more time away from the game during the holidays than FA or IoJ, but we really seem to have some severe highs and lows population wise. Pretty much anything can mess us up, from fractals being introduced, to some in game event. Even TC, the unofficial RP server didn’t have anywhere near as much a drop off in players then we did during the winter’s day event.

We went from having a really good sized group to having not enough to cover anything more than 1 map. That’s why we dropped from 1st to 3rd last week. I just find it interesting the way each server has it’s own strengths and weaknesses.

Adaneshade.2409:

Raincrow.1840:

Adaneshade.2409:

Yet, in a 1vs1 situation….

I thought we were talking about WvW?

We are comparing 1 build vs another……. if you want to blow it up to higher. 20 tanks vs 20 GC builds…..Tanks win >.<

We are comparing one build vs another in WvW, the way WvW works. Not 1v1 or some fantasy match where everyone is the same build…. Regardless, you’re missing the point. People die too fast, because toughness and defense doesn’t stop enough damage.

A full specced DPS character can kill a tank character in a matter of seconds. I do it all the time. 1v1 with all his cooldowns up, a tank would likely beat me, but that’s because I die too fast, not becuase he can take a lot of damage.

Because the players get what the majority asks for in the MMO world, and PvP / WvW is made up of people willing to take trash reward systems that PvE players would never stand for.

Valenna Tiefling.5806:

Raincrow.1840:

Valenna Tiefling.5806:

Clearly we have a difference of opinion on this, but I can assure you of one thing. A large number of players enjoy it in the lower tiers.

I think the difference in opinion also includes what one considers a “large number of players”.

Har Har. Is funny because there are no players in T7 and T8. Is also funny because no one would willingly transfer to T7 or T8 (because they’re empty, dead servers), especially when they can transfer in to T1 for free.

Seriously though, troll harder brah. I’m sure the collective communities of GoM, SF, HoD, Kaineng, FC and ET all agree that they contain “small” numbers.

This wasn’t much of a response to be honest. Funny it’s ok for you to have a different opinion than me, but when I express my opinion I’m trolling?

What you seem to miss here is that what you consider a large number of players is in fact very small. Especially considering the number of player per server who don’t take part in WvW at all.

The MMO market has the potential to bring in millions of players. Sadly, this version of WvW is not apealing to a large number of them. But like I said a few posts up… some of you are simply in denial about the state of the game.

Adaneshade.2409:

Yet, in a 1vs1 situation….

I thought we were talking about WvW?

Valenna Tiefling.5806:

Clearly we have a difference of opinion on this, but I can assure you of one thing. A large number of players enjoy it in the lower tiers.

I think the difference in opinion also includes what one considers a “large number of players”.

Valenna Tiefling.5806:

Seriously though, is there actually something that’s more fun than epically holding off an insurmountable horde with a small group?

Yes. A week long battle in which holding that keep makes an impact.

Valenna Tiefling.5806:

If your fun in WvW is dependent on winning every week you’re going to have a bad time.

It’s not about winning, it’s about having a chance to win. It’s about having a fair fight, not 20 people holding against 100 in a losing cause, and then patting yourself on the back about how fun it is to hold onto one keep. I mean, if THAT’s the most fun you’ve had in WvW that really should tell you something.

And then there’s the other side of the coin, when you’re the server on top and you run around PvDoor with little resistence. I think some of you are just in denial about the state of this game.

Rhyis.7058:

Raincrow.1840:

People die too fast in this game already.

Are we playing the same game lol?

Yes, and I’m dead serious. DPS is far more powerful than stats like toughness and the defense ratings on armor. I’ve played a lot of MMOs and this is one of the few in which you can loose 2/3rds if not all of your health in just a few seconds.

CD seems to be hurt more than most servers by things like holidays, events, and PvE. Anyone else agree?

People die too fast in this game already. More CC would kill WvW.

Valenna Tiefling.5806:

Gonna disagree. We’ve hit every tier on the way down, and I’ve never had an un-fun week on WvW, even when we’re exceptionally outmanned.

This seems like an Oxymoron to me ^

I mean, I guess there are some people who enjoy getting stomped on by a much larger force, but I just don’t see the fun in it.

Sporadicus.1028:

If you are bored, go check out other servers on lower tiers. There’s still time to return to your server for free . . . for now.

Lower tiers are not more fun as you go down. They’re just more unbalanced as far as population goes.

Rhyis.7058:

A server with a 300k point lead can breakout into the losing servers borderlands, making it even more difficult for the losing server to defend it’s own borderland.

That’s a good point.

Broken game is broken.

Zosk.5609:

We have different opinions about the causes of death of Warhammer, what I consider the best RvR game to date… I would submit that large scale fighting is what a large percentage of RvR players show up for….and that Warhammer did a fine job of it. Battlefield tactics were always there…the game was often criticized for it’s slow pace because people DID survive in large skirmishes for a long time and nearly endless battles could rage on.

But I guess you can disagree there, but on the subject of penalizing players I’ll never understand the ‘hardcore’ PvPers sadomasochistic tendency. Discouraging people helps nobody. In the case of this game, I’d be willing to make a large wager that the rather steep armor penalty is there only because the game is Free To Play and they wanted to MAKE sure there was a moneysink in place for players who chose to primarily do WvW…. all it really does is punish people who take risks and don’t follow the zerg. (Which is how you make money in WvWvW…. zerg and quit when things go bad)

I agree with the idea that getting back into the fight makes for a much more fun game than running for 10 minutes everytime you want to get into the mix.

I also don’t see why people want to penalize players. I die rarely and have enough gold that the death penalty doesn’t mean all that much, but why is WvW treated like a gold sink, when other types of content rewards players with large amounts of gold, and other loot rewards meant to encourage participation?

In the meantime WvW is basically discouraged by the game mechanics, and players themselves are saying things like this….

Elochai.1280:

3.) I don’t think players should have to be rewarded with anything, but a fun pvp experience of fighting other players..

And then people wonder why WvW is far less popular than PvE. Can you imagine if fractals were expected to be done just for the fun experience?

It’s no wonder servers are unbalanced population wise, and WvW is drawing less and less players all the time. The people who actually enjoy WvW the most are often the ones who end up killing it.

High DPS + Stealth + Fast Escape = Over Powered

Culling just makes it worse,

You don’t need a guild to enjoy WvW.

Every server is going to have good and bad players of various skill levels. What I find separates good from bad are the more vocal / visible players, and the strategies they use, most notably the more active commanders, but any active / vocal player can make a difference on a server. The more “good” players you have, and the impact those players have on what your server does over the course of the week, the better your server will be in the long run. Not only in putting points on the scoreboard, but in making WvW a fun place to be.

When I say “Good” I don’t really mean skilled in PvP as much as I mean good for your server’s overall productivity.

I really only expect 2 things from a good WvW server.

#1. Good Communication. The more players calling out targets and being constructive, the better. On the other side of the coin, the less trash talking, arguing and generally bad mouthing your own teammates the better a server is in general.

#2. Willingness to try. If you’re outnumbered, or losing on the scoreboard and your server basically gives up, logs off, goes back to PvE, etc. your not on a very good server. Overall strategies that mean playing for 2nd place is a failure for a server as well in my opinion.

I don’t get why people want siege weapons to be stronger than it is right now. I like the fact that siege is there to make defending, breaking walls a bit easier…. but I don’t really want to see the game work in such a way that siege is far more important than the players and the class they play.

None of these ideas would break up zergs, and some would even make them more important.

Better rewards for upgrading / defending would help.

3 very good points by the OP.

Point 1. Problem with thieves isn’t stealth, it’s that damage is too high in this game. Stealth is actually far more difficult to use in GW2 than in most MMOs, but people die so quickly in this game it makes the combination of very high burst with stealth too much to deal with. Doesn’t matter that thieves are squishy or that there are counters to stealth. Even the best counter is worthless if you die before you see the enemy player.

Point 2 and 3 the OP is dead on.

Maniac.5163:

TC enters matchup thread of a tier it isn’t playing in..
thread derails from nice conversation to a flame war..
Just stick to your own matchup thread and get your own threads closed/moderated, thanks TC..
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out Merry X-Mas!

TC members didn’t do anything wrong, just offered a little friendly advice. We should welcome them, or any other server members to take part in our thread.

If you don’t want to get a thread closed, treat everyone with respect regardless of server.