Guild Wars 2

Crinn.7864:

The fear duration on F4 isn’t long enough to justify terror.

Cmon son. Have hope. HOPE

I don’t see anything wrong with this. The more resources you dedicate to getting an advantage, the higher the risk if it doesn’t pay off. It seems fair because you could get the same advantage.

Now what isn’t fair are the coliseum buff locations

You can definitely go conditions with rifle. Kneel2 with quickness piles on poison really fast.

Freebu.5230:

Kam.4092:

Zero Solstice.9754:

Power Scourge is sweet because of its ability to upkeep boons for free with Feed From Corruption and some Concentration. It also has some nice burst between Desert Shroud and Spiteful Spirit. It’s just another way to play the class, and I’m excited for the possibilities.

Please tell me why a purely Condition focused Elite would go a power route?

So we can complain about the terrible damage, obviously.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

Well, we’ll have the easiest access to fear compared to core and reaper, so that’s looking great!

Yes?

Well, I think the success of the build was more dependent on your skill level than the build itself! Haven’t gotten used to it yet

forum bug blah blah

Lily.1935:

Ramoth.9064:

Lily.1935:

Ramoth.9064:

Lily.1935:

Why further nerf a class that’ll still need a babysitter?

That’s a big exaggeration to be honest. God forbid scourge has some weaknesses to ranged attacks, it is still extremely powerful against melee and condition pressure.

that’s what people said about reaper and they still need a babysitter. Scourge will be no different.

A lot of top 250 necros do very well 1v1. Even if they lose 50% of their fights, it only means the class isn’t hampered and can only succeed in team fights.

Top matches aren’t won on 1v1s, its a coordinated effort.

Then the argument that necromancers require babysitting doesn’t make sense. You’re contributing to a teamfight as much as the teammate who is there helping your sustain?

Oh i did end up using invocation, I think my mechanics improved bit also. I realized I shouldn’t camp a legend and make use of the benefits of legend switching instead when I’m in the thick of a fight.

Switched to menders, didn’t notice a change in my defensive play, but definitely dealing more damage too!

I think the ‘cheesy’ ventari builds use glint.

Anyways that said, not looking to be cheesy with this build, I genuinely like the utility ventari has, I think the alacrity is perfect.

The problem I see with ventari is the animation. When the tablet is out for a while, its easy to see the vines before the explosion. But when you just switch to ventari or you resummon the tablet, the tablet isn’t shown visually, but it is still there.

Lily.1935:

Ramoth.9064:

Lily.1935:

Why further nerf a class that’ll still need a babysitter?

That’s a big exaggeration to be honest. God forbid scourge has some weaknesses to ranged attacks, it is still extremely powerful against melee and condition pressure.

that’s what people said about reaper and they still need a babysitter. Scourge will be no different.

A lot of top 250 necros do very well 1v1. Even if they lose 50% of their fights, it only means the class isn’t hampered and can only succeed in team fights.

Been running this build since the patch hit, I still use scepter focus, sword shield though, more sustain, ranged attack and no judges intervention. I use that retal signet instead.

Oh and adjusted traits of course

Lily.1935:

Why further nerf a class that’ll still need a babysitter?

That’s a big exaggeration to be honest. God forbid scourge has some weaknesses to ranged attacks, it is still extremely powerful against melee and condition pressure.

messiah.1908:

use this
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX8snfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklTFJNwhGrxu1jN5zqA-TZRPABAs/w6HEgxfCAofCAuuMAA

more healing power . use ventari as a short support for cleanse and small heal. the rune will give you another 1k healing and blind. and blast before you switch back to demon to collect 7k healing back fragments.

invocation will allow you to build above 15 might stacks to increase both power and condition dmg

careful from cc and dont 1v1 a thief. so stick to team fights.

have fun

Thanks! Just how effective is charged mists for gaining might? Didn’t think you could get 15 might from that. Will give it a go

Yeah I’m not too sure what happened with vault thieves, but at some point they all just tapered off. I think traditional D/P is still most deadly.

All of the builds I run so far deal with condition S/D easily.

I actually ran into two S/P thieves yesterday, after not having seen any for years. The build felt pretty good. Did lots of damage to my guard.

Chaith.8256:

Clearly the expansion release is more important than a consistent playing field for the PvP season.. money talks

Well, I guess Arenanet have exceptional confidence on their balance, that if all goes according to plan, elite specializations won’t be completely OP compared to core and HoT.

Lol.

Justine.6351:

Ramoth.9064:

Actually I think one of the biggest strengths of the scourge is that it is a multiplication of you resources in a pvp team fight. I did well on the beta weekend because I entered the point sparingly. In a team fight its much better to stay at the outer, you either force your opponents to commit to overextending, to try and get rid of you, or you let the scourge deal free damage via shades summoned on point.

The best thing about it all was that if you are kiting, you can fight the people you are kiting while still affecting the fight on point.

Ya it will be interesting to see how shade builds play out. Kind of a weird mix of ranger’s traps, spirits and pets that are unkillable, control over skills used and can be cast at range.

This is major deja vu. I feel like you’ve said that to me before, in some other topic, about shades lol.

narcx.3570:

Gonna have a real tough time vs anyone with hard CC without Invocation.

You’d be much better off going Mallyx/Glint with this build and taking Invo, since your only healing power is the tiny amount from your runes of the revenant, it kind of makes the tablet pointless… Unless you just want the tablet to be an energy explosion cheeser—but that really only works against the lowest tier of players—which you probably would have beaten in any build.

Or I mean, if you really want to do tablet support/condi damage hybrid, maybe switch up to Sage Amulet and a Healing Power Rune set and drop Herald for Invocation.

Yeah, I was thinking about that, the vitality from carrion is probably acting like training wheels at the moment, might go Sage.

I just don’t like glint though, the facets feel very situational and doesn’t offer the options the tablet has IMO.

Actually I think one of the biggest strengths of the scourge is that it is a multiplication of you resources in a pvp team fight. I did well on the beta weekend because I entered the point sparingly. In a team fight its much better to stay at the outer, you either force your opponents to commit to overextending, to try and get rid of you, or you let the scourge deal free damage via shades summoned on point.

The best thing about it all was that if you are kiting, you can fight the people you are kiting while still affecting the fight on point.

Crinn.7864:

As far as sPvP is concerned, Scourge was underpowered during the beta weekend, and if it’s nerfed it’ll be completely pointless.

Seems the devs only want necromancers to play WvW.

I think it was balanced just right, and that opponents were just too dumb. The issues scourge has against ranged makes it a glaring vulnerability – that barely anyone exploited.

I’ll probably keep a deadeye around against scourge heavy line ups, for everything else, there’s mastercard.

whoa, thats weird, wanna screencap this? maybe he queued up for ranked unknowingly?

I’ve been wanting to play rev for pvp for the longest time but power revs just never really stuck with me; suffice to say, rev is one of my worst classes.

With the latest changes I’ve tried condition rev and I’m quite liking this build, there are a lot of options, but I notice it doesn’t do well against pressure from thieves.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQRApX8unfNmNSuJzJRHlNlskyoS4S5UJorMsklTlZNmb6JNgDaw+82rH-TpQZABAUGo09HAA

I see the build as a support build with condition damage. I really like the alacrity from ventari, with mace I can bombard team fights from outside the point with Mace2, 3 and Axe 5.

Mallyx lets me deal with condition pressure really well, and thanks to the traits I can dish out a lot of torment even while using ventari.

I’m not glued to the idea of using herald, other than the F2 and protection on heal trait I feel like it doesn’t offer much, the shield in this build feels lacklustre. I’m thinking renegade might be able to improve this build.

And I have no need to prove anything to you, not with you not actually making coherent arguments. Your replies consist of ‘no that won’t work, and that’s because i said so’. You have no experience doing anything competitive, so your rebuttals hold no water. You are the ultimate example of the dunning kruger effect.

Bleed on dagger as others have shown, suits dagger perfectly, yet you, lol, have been making nonsensical arguments that have become so cyclical you’ve lost track of where your argument is.

Obtena.7952:

Ramoth.9064:

If understanding meta is so hard for you, you really should get yourself acquainted to competitive game modes before you spout these nonsensical arguments. Its a farce!

You want to talk about competitive game modes while supporting the idea of condi buffed daggers? That’s a seemingly contradictory position. Perhaps you want to clear it up by presenting a competitive build that reaps the benefits of this condi buffed dagger or you all talk?

No one is being specific about competitive game modes in this discussion except for you. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable ask: If the condi buffed dagger is so awesome to fix certain condi builds, competitive or not, then obviously you and others have put some effort into what those builds are, how they would work and where they are used … why so sheepish? Obviously I’m open and interested to a discussion on that. Show me I’m wrong; that these builds exist. So far you got … chill on dagger; at best, an inferior copy cat of the GS. Not a good first show.

Ramoth.9064:

No one would take staff as anything more than a utility weapon they can’t wait to get out of. For it to be any good it needs to be more than a fire and forget weapon.

… and? You’re re-iterating what I said here; no where did I give the impression that staff would sufficiently fill the ‘condi LF regen’ role as it exists now, to be clear, I simply believe it’s an easier ‘sell’ to buff staff to address the reasons people want to buff dagger. Of course you didn’t comprehend that, or chose to not do so.

The irony is that you complain about staff is a weapon that people don’t want to use more than they have to. Funny … that’s exactly what anyone would think about a condi buffed dagger as well … fill your LF and get out ASAP.

Your complete whole first paragraph makes zero sense. People are suggesting adjustments to make things competitive. Its clear that the only person who is all talk is you, you’ve continually suggested things "on account of arenanet’’ yet fail to see they do things contrary to what you say. Thats the irony.

Lol all your arguments about stuff arenanet wont do, has been done by arenanet.

Look above, weaver sword on fire, inflicts burning, takes advantage of people who are burning. Exactly what was suggested for the dagger here.

You’re so desperate to argue yourself out of the hole you’ve dug yourself, its tragic!

No one would take staff as anything more than a utility weapon they can’t wait to get out of. For it to be any good it needs to be more than a fire and forget weapon, and none of your laughable tweaks would do that.

If understanding meta is so hard for you, you really should get yourself acquainted to competitive game modes before you spout these nonsensical arguments. Its a farce!

A lot of traits for every class are built around their profession mechanics. At the most basic level, these traits essentially do the same thing; apply boon on activation, remove condition on activation, added stats while activated etc, etc.

The common denominator here is activation. Activation benefits are often based on two of three things:

Resource: Life force, adrenaline, pet HP
Time: Cooldowns
Accuracy: Connecting with the skill used.

If we look at each profession and see which requirements they have it will look like this:

Elementalist: Attunements swapping only require time.
Engineer: Toolbelt skills only require time.
Guardian: Virtures only require time.
Mesmer: Shatter requires resource and time. And resource is only required for greater effects.
Necromancer: Entering Shroud requires resource and time.
Ranger: Pet swapping requires resource (health) and time.
Revenant: Legend swapping requires time.
Thief: Steal requires time and accuracy.

Warrior: The benefits attributed with burst skills, of which there aren’t all too many to begin with, require resource, time and accuracy

Oddly enough I found myself agreeing with the changes to primal burst adrenaline but I felt some sort of trade-off should have been given back, e.g. entering berserk mode should count as 2 stacks of adrenaline depleted.

But going back to my original argument, it doesn’t make sense that burst attacks are constraint upon 3 things, where every other class only has two. I think accuracy shouldn’t be a criteria for effects like adrenal health, cleansing ire, since you are held back by requiring time and resource to activate it to begin with. Thematically it works too, if the adrenaline is what heals you, expending it should be the cost, not landing the hit.

Sublimatio.6981:

Aktium.9506:

Sublimatio.6981:

i would rather have staff completely reworked than see just bleeding added to dagger

I want this too. Staff has so many great skins that I only ever get to see it when I go PvP for my seasonal Plat/Leggy badge. Which isn’t much since I usually only do the minimum req games. It would be nice if it had some use in PvE too since that seems to have become my main game mode in recent months.

But tbh, no offense to Anet, but I just don’t see them putting in the work to rework an an entire weapon set when they can simply change a single auto attack chain.

Anything to stop Scepter/Torch + Scepter/Dagger in raids from happening, man. I can’t go back to having basically no rotation like the old build after Condi GS. Like 800 LI gained on Necro almost exclusively and I’ll seriously drop Necro to play Engi in raids if it happens.

its not even just about the autoattack, the entire weapon is the least creative of all they’ve made. 4 the same looking skills and a generic autoattack projectile. i want spells and not 4 aoe traps.

I’d love to have trident and staff swapped

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cauterizing_Strike

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Searing_Slash_

Lmao. How dare you Arenanet, how dare you.

wait what changed?

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Oh, I’m sorry, I was only counting reasons given that weren’t directly addressed.

• would be too strong
  Strength of a damaging condition added depends on condition, stack count, and stack duration. Keeping these low ensures this isn’t a problem unless dagger is already where it needs to be on damage (you’ve said yourself that it isn’t.)

• Would make Scepter irrelevant
  Scepter has a massive range advantage and would still put out higher DPS in a condition build than a low stack condition.

• would encourage people camping dagger
  You weren’t able to back this up and actually immedietly backtracked when called out on it.

• would remove choice
  It would actually open up a new choice to condition builds

• would discourage swapping
  Low stacks=only using dagger for building life force/sustain. Swapping necessary for higher damage output.

• isn’t on theme for the weapon/against the identity
  Weapon already has a skill that wants the target bleeding. Giving it a way to actually accomplish that goal is called “synergy” not “lack of identity” or “changing identity.”

• bleeding on target would be braindead if added to auto
  To be fair, I haven’t addressed this one yet because I thought it was so obvious, but this would require completing a full auto chain before using Life Siphon. And I mean right before with a short Bleed, as in no time to do anything else if you wanted to maximize the damage. Considering Life Siphon has a range advantage over the auto of 470, this is hardly a sure thing.

• bleeding should be achieved through other means
  Why? Should Ghastly Claws lose its damage buff versus Vulnerable targets because the auto applies Vulnerability? Should Scepter not inflict conditions with the auto or Grasping Dead because Feast of Corruption wants conditions on the target?

Bring up a legitimate argument that’s not “I don’t like it” and I’ll answer it completely in 5 sentences or less.

I’m only going to address and correct your recap of the concerns that I ACTUALLY have (not sure where you made up the others from):

1. The build choice argument is lame; there are not more builds opening up because of this simple suggestion; at most, a condition might give a player pause to rethink a trait or a sigil. By you’re own admittance, if you only put bleed on the last chain so it’s not a braindead bleed on target, then this is made even less effective as a ‘choice’ for condition build applications. Claiming we get all these new build options as a smokescreen to get this on dagger is dishonest IMO.

2. Bleeding shouldn’t only be open to us with other means … but it already IS open to us from other means. Adding bleed to dagger is actually redundant and doesn’t make players think about how to take advantage of effective their builds give or think about applying effects their builds have. Maybe you think making the game dumber is a good thing; I do not.

3. Any bleed added to auto removes any thoughtful execution of Dagger 2 that exists … if the target is always bleeding, the effect is always active. They might as well just buff Dagger 2 another 20% and be done. Adding an way to get a special event effect permanently is dumb.

4. It would be too strong; No, I did not say it would be too strong. I object to the thoughtless idea that putting a condition on a power weapon as an effective way to buff its DPS. Taking advantage of a condition on dagger that with different traits/skills/gear prefix would actually be a DPS loss compared to vanilla builds using dagger. This is one of the primary reasons I dislike this idea; condi buffing dagger is a dead end. That may change with Scourge but it’s speculative.

5. It would make Scepter irrelevant; No, I didn’t say that. People argued that they wanted a melee condition weapon because of a ‘gap’. I’m pointing out to them that Scepter used at melee range already fills that gap.

6. Weapon identity. I think this is a strong point that people easily gloss over because they misunderstand what weapon concept is; I don’t blame them because Anet doesn’t explicitly explain them. Still, they exist and there are strong hints of what those concepts are. I haven’t got a problem if you want to propose dagger be something else as a concept. I do have a problem if you want to add an effect and claim it ‘fits’ what dagger should be.

I’m not the only one that objects to this idea in the thread either, for much the same reasons I hold. If there is one overall concluding statement I can make, it’s stated simply: There are better opportunities to address these issues than the path chosen by this idea.

Omg there are ways to self bleed already, why would you add self bleed to dagger 3 arenanet? Why? Obetna is going to tell you how dumb and redundant that is.

And omg remove vulnerability from axe 1 already, how dare you make weapons have synnergy.

Oh obtena, how about you throw some of these “better solutions” our way. If you constantly say “there are better eats to deal with this” it sounds like you already have the answer. Probably because you think you work at arenanet. Let’s see how your own solutions stand up to your own tenets lmao.

I like the fart bomb effects, tells you who gets affected.

240 ping is like my regular ping. Poor SEA.

Necromancer spear and trident are really good though.

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

But not being in line with the intent of the weapon? The weapon already has a skill that wants your foes to bleed.

Again, I’ve explained why that’s a reason to NOT add bleed to dagger AA. The weapon takes advantage of bleeding foes; that does not mean it’s intent is to be a condition application weapon. Enabling the weapon to give the extra dagger 2 advantage without thought is a stupid implementation.

I love how you just ignored the part there about Axe having received a very similar change. In fact, it happened in the exact same patch as Life Siphon started caring about Bleeding! They’re even both #2 skills and channels!

I don’t see how the two influence each other’s concepts. Axe does both, doesn’t necessarily mean that dagger needs to as well. Of course, it doesn’t mean dagger can’t but that’s neither here nor there. I’ve given reasons I don’t think it should.

Your reasons have been…nonexistent, really. You’ve basically been saying “I don’t think it should have bleeding because then it would have bleeding and I don’t think it should have that.”

No that’s actually unfair and dishonest; there have been many reasons given for why I don’t think this should happen. Dismiss them as you wish, but they are well documented in this thread.

Its perfectly fair and honest, and it was addressed by your sequence of contradictions.

again you said:

Bleed goes against the intentions of the weapon
The intentions of the weapon can change
Bleed won’t change the intentions of the weapon
Bleed shouldn’t be applied to a weapon that benefits from bleeding.

And here we are.

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

But not being in line with the intent of the weapon? The weapon already has a skill that wants your foes to bleed.

Again, I’ve explained why that’s a reason to NOT add bleed to dagger AA. The weapon takes advantage of bleeding foes; that does not mean it’s intent is to be a condition application weapon. Enabling the weapon to give the extra dagger 2 advantage without thought is a stupid implementation.

I love how you just ignored the part there about Axe having received a very similar change. In fact, it happened in the exact same patch as Life Siphon started caring about Bleeding! They’re even both #2 skills and channels!

I don’t see how the two influence each other’s concepts. Axe does both, doesn’t necessarily mean that dagger needs to as well. Of course, it doesn’t mean dagger can’t but that’s neither here nor there. I’ve given reasons I don’t think it should.

And just because you don’t see something doesn’t mean your opinion is anymore correct. It just means you don’t see it.

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

But not being in line with the intent of the weapon? The weapon already has a skill that wants your foes to bleed.

Again, I’ve explained why that’s a reason to NOT add bleed to dagger AA. The weapon takes advantage of bleeding foes; that does not mean it’s intent is to be a condition application weapon. Enabling the weapon to give the extra dagger 2 advantage without thought is a stupid implementation.

I love how you just ignored the part there about Axe having received a very similar change. In fact, it happened in the exact same patch as Life Siphon started caring about Bleeding! They’re even both #2 skills and channels!

I don’t see how the two influence each other’s concepts. Axe does both, doesn’t necessarily mean that dagger needs to as well. Of course, it doesn’t mean dagger can’t but that’s neither here nor there. I’ve given reasons I don’t think it should.

No its completely here, and not there. You’ve given reasons that have been proved invalid.

scepter3 benefits from unique conditions on the enemy, and scepter 1 and 2 applies conditions. heavens, nooooooooooooo

Obtena.7952:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

But not being in line with the intent of the weapon? The weapon already has a skill that wants your foes to bleed.

Again, I’ve explained why that’s a reason to NOT add bleed to dagger AA. The weapon takes advantage of bleeding foes; that does not mean it’s intent is to bleed.

Axe takes advantage of vulnerable foes, and applies vulnerability! Heavens, nooooooooooo

Obtena.7952:

No, I said adding a condition in not inline with the intent of the weapon. That’s a significant difference.

Which is contradicted by the fact that you said intentions can change.

Obtena.7952:

That’s just plain dishonest; I’ve never said the intention couldn’t change; I said if you want to add something to a weapon, it needs to be inline with the intention of the weapon. That’s not the same thing.

If you think adding a paltry condi on AA is ‘intention changing’ for a weapon, then I don’t believe you understand what intention or weapon concept actually means.

That’s just plain contradictory. Tells people you can’t add stuff that’s not with the intent of the weapon, then tells people the intent can be changed.

I actually don’t give a kitten if anything is added or taken from dagger, i have to reason to use it. It’s hilarious watching you are your way out of the hole you’ve dug though. As per usual.

Obtena.7952:

Ramoth.9064:

Obtena.7952:

Ramoth.9064:

Obtena.7952:

Ramoth.9064:

Obtena.7952:

Nothing obtuse here. You guys want to pat yourselves on the back for a poorly thought out idea to buff dagger with damage conditions while ignoring game mechanics and intention. It’s not all that hard to even think of an idea that doesn’t ignore those things to buff dagger, but for some reason they elude you because of this conditions fixation.

I mean, someone asked what happened to simply buffing dagger damage … he was completely ignored because that idea doesn’t push the condition buff agenda.

OK so what about that idea? It maintains the concept of the dagger, it maintains meaningful choices during swapping, it addresses ‘competitive’ to a degree.

Oh, applying conditions = ignoring game mechanics now? That’s a new one to laugh to!

Maybe you think that … I never said such a thing. Feel free to laugh at yourself if that’s what you want to think.

I will say that applying conditions that isn’t aligned with the concept of a power weapon is ignoring it’s concept and intention.

You have no idea what intentions a weapon has despite how much you think you know about the game. GS in raids is now used in condition builds, despite it being marketed as a ‘power’ weapon.

That’s not correct. You can get a really good insight to what the devs intended a weapon to do by it’s skills, the special traits associated with it and the other traits in the same line … to claim otherwise is nonsense.

Again, intentions have constantly been changed. None of which you could have predicted in your tenure as a fake arenanet employee.

Hey, I’m all for changing intention … but adding bleed on AA isn’t going to do that. That’s silly. It doesn’t do anything … there is no new concept there and even worse, an effect that very little to take advantage of. It’s simply a desperate plea for a buff.

Lol, no. No you aren’t. That comment flies directly against your ‘neigh, weapons have intentions and no foul heathen shall ever change that’ argument.

Obtena.7952:

Ramoth.9064:

Obtena.7952:

Ramoth.9064:

Obtena.7952:

Nothing obtuse here. You guys want to pat yourselves on the back for a poorly thought out idea to buff dagger with damage conditions while ignoring game mechanics and intention. It’s not all that hard to even think of an idea that doesn’t ignore those things to buff dagger, but for some reason they elude you because of this conditions fixation.

I mean, someone asked what happened to simply buffing dagger damage … he was completely ignored because that idea doesn’t push the condition buff agenda.

OK so what about that idea? It maintains the concept of the dagger, it maintains meaningful choices during swapping, it addresses ‘competitive’ to a degree.

Oh, applying conditions = ignoring game mechanics now? That’s a new one to laugh to!

Maybe you think that … I never said such a thing. Feel free to laugh at yourself if that’s what you want to think.

I will say that applying conditions that isn’t aligned with the concept of a power weapon is ignoring it’s concept and intention.

You have no idea what intentions a weapon has despite how much you think you know about the game. GS in raids is now used in condition builds, despite it being marketed as a ‘power’ weapon.

That’s not correct. You can get a really good insight to what the devs intended a weapon to do by it’s skills, the special traits associated with it and the other traits in the same line … to claim otherwise is nonsense.

Again, intentions have constantly been changed. None of which you could have predicted in your tenure as a fake arenanet employee.

Oh look, signets are for corruption, now they aren’t for corruption. Pretty big 180. Come PoF, deathly chill is probably going to get changed so that it doesnt interact with condition damage anymore, pretty big 180. Spectral wall was supposed to be for inflicting vulnerability, now it inflicts fear, what was the original intention there?

Obtena.7952:

Ramoth.9064:

Obtena.7952:

Nothing obtuse here. You guys want to pat yourselves on the back for a poorly thought out idea to buff dagger with damage conditions while ignoring game mechanics and intention. It’s not all that hard to even think of an idea that doesn’t ignore those things to buff dagger, but for some reason they elude you because of this conditions fixation.

I mean, someone asked what happened to simply buffing dagger damage … he was completely ignored because that idea doesn’t push the condition buff agenda.

OK so what about that idea? It maintains the concept of the dagger, it maintains meaningful choices during swapping, it addresses ‘competitive’ to a degree.

Oh, applying conditions = ignoring game mechanics now? That’s a new one to laugh to!

Maybe you think that … I never said such a thing. Feel free to laugh at yourself if that’s what you want to think.

I will say that applying conditions that isn’t aligned with the concept of a power weapon is ignoring it’s concept and intention.

You have no idea what intentions a weapon has despite how much you think you know about the game. GS in raids is now used in condition builds, despite it being marketed as a ‘power’ weapon.

Obtena.7952:

Nothing obtuse here. You guys want to pat yourselves on the back for a poorly thought out idea to buff dagger with damage conditions while ignoring game mechanics and intention. It’s not all that hard to even think of an idea that doesn’t ignore those things to buff dagger, but for some reason they elude you because of this conditions fixation.

I mean, someone asked what happened to simply buffing dagger damage … he was completely ignored because that idea doesn’t push the condition buff agenda.

OK so what about that idea? It maintains the concept of the dagger, it maintains meaningful choices during swapping, it addresses ‘competitive’ to a degree.

Ramoth.9064:

Obtena.7952:

Why does this have to be regulated to competitive play? So you can claim my concerns and points aren’t relevant? GG. I think you are dillusional if you think adding condtion to dagger AA elevates it to ‘competitive play’, whatever your vague definition of that may be.

The fact is that while I’m a primary dissenter, I haven’t been the only one; try to keep it honest OK? The other people that have commented and challenged this idea have also echoed my own feelings on this; ignoring the fundamental concept of the weapon just to buff it out of what is simple desperation. Not a compelling reason.

Balance is based around the nature of competition, if there were no competition involved there would be no need to balance.

This isn’t a question of balance. If it was, no one would be so clueless as to suggest a few conditions applied by dagger AA would address it.

They added a ‘few conditions and situational effects’ to dagger 2 and 3, so your argument here is dead in the water. If a ‘few conditions’ have so little purpose why did arenanet do it at all?

Thief deadly arts got a ‘few’ conditions added to two traits that redefined several weapons. Oh no, how pointless.

Obtena.7952:

Nothing obtuse here. You guys want to pat yourselves on the back for a poorly thought out idea to buff dagger with damage conditions while ignoring game mechanics and intention. It’s not all that hard to even think of an idea that doesn’t ignore those things to buff dagger, but for some reason they elude you because of this conditions fixation.

I mean, someone asked what happened to simply buffing dagger damage … he was completely ignored because that idea doesn’t push the condition buff agenda.

OK so what about that idea? It maintains the concept of the dagger, it maintains meaningful choices during swapping, it addresses ‘competitive’ to a degree.

Oh, applying conditions = ignoring game mechanics now? That’s a new one to laugh to!

Obtena.7952:

Why does this have to be regulated to competitive play? So you can claim my concerns and points aren’t relevant? GG. I think you are dillusional if you think adding condtion to dagger AA elevates it to ‘competitive play’, whatever your vague definition of that may be.

The fact is that while I’m a primary dissenter, I haven’t been the only one; try to keep it honest OK? The other people that have commented and challenged this idea have also echoed my own feelings on this; ignoring the fundamental concept of the weapon just to buff it out of what is simple desperation. Not a compelling reason.

OMG, yes. I claim your concerns and points are irrelevant. Was that not obivious? So far your arguments have been based around you thinking you work at Arenanet. Balance is based around the nature of competition, if there were no competition involved there would be no need to balance.

Fundamentals of a weapon change frequently. Thief shortbow used to be only useful for SB5, now it is actually a viable condition weapon. Mace on the warrior is a power/lockdown weapon, on the berserker it is a viable condition weapon. See how things change?

BurrTheKing.8571:

I’ve changed my position on this.

Rather than making it baseline, it would probably make more sense to just remove the trait entirely, then adjust weapon CDs to compensate. Yes, we will lose out on the ease of comboing skills together – but I’m tired of the whole class being balanced around this single perk. Shorter weapon CDs can still be useful and will buff us as a whole. The traitline will still be great for the speed boost, while buffing builds that focus more on in combat mobility by using Bull’s Charge and weapons like sword, hammer, and greatsword.

Giving us the trait baseline will just lead to every other class saying “well I want x baseline then.” Mes getting that GM baseline was mostly because their class mechanic wasn’t useble without clones when you didn’t have it equipped. Let’s face it, all it did in the end was let them blow their Distortion on a 1 second duration shatter. While potentially useful – Chrono made this pointless because they’re constantly spamming clones anyways.

Warriors getting Fast hands baseline would just give us an ability no other class in the game has. Slightly decreasing CDs would just be to bring them in line with other classes that don’t have Fast hands. The decrease would probably be stupid low in some cases, but it’s still a universal buff that doesn’t screw us down the road when it comes to design.

Totally agree with this. To be honest i think burst skills should be reduced in cd anyways. The point is that like every other class with their class mechanics, your supposed to trick it out to suit your playstyle, for warrior to have it depends on 3 things (adrenaline, cd, accuracy) is what is severely hampering the class. It’s not the whole spec

Obtena.7952:

I said it won’t get added because it starts diminishing meaningful choices, which is clearly intended by the design of the game. What makes you think Anet doesn’t intent for classes to have restrictions and trade offs by choice of weapon? It’s pretty clear it is intended.

Besides, dagger needs things? I think there is a big difference between what it needs and what you want it to have. Dagger 2 has synergy with bleeding? Seems to me that’s a good reason to NOT put bleeding on Dagger AA … I mean, if you’re just going to make an opponent bleed for so little effort, then that synergy simply turns into a thinly veiled buff of Dagger 2. The idea here isn’t that Anet just hand you all these buffs; you need to think about where they come from to take advantage of them. There is no thinking behind getting a bleed on AA just to automatically get a conditional, extra effect on Dagger 2. That’s silly.

To say there is NO way to get bleed to take advantage of Dagger 2 extra effect because Dagger AA doesn’t have bleed is nonsense. Your demonstrating that you aren’t willing to solve your build challenges with the tools we already have.

Increasing DPS? Again, I’ve asked why any sensible player would want to increase a power weapon DPS with a few crap condition applications. Apparently, you guys think this is the obvious answer; I think it’s a dishonest reason to buff dagger with a condition.

Finally … the number of builds. So far, I’ve seen zero builds from the people that make this claim that would make me think I’ve got something new to try out; a way to make me rethink how I build and play necro; if dagger got a condition.

Lol no one here is bothered to entertain your naysaying. Everyone else has had meaningful discussion agreeing with each other while you’re that guy on the outside screaming no. Again, qualifications please? So far, I’ve seen zero meaningful contributions from you in any realm of competitive play.

And thats all there is to it, if you can’t play competitively your arguments hold no water.

But it does show life siphoning is in a good place, it just happens to be very situational.