Guild Wars 2

The issue isn’t that I have difficulty playing the deadeye, its just that, its really boring to play the deadeye.

Its just too hard to give up on function gyro though!

There was a suggestion a while back that marks should be spread across all the other weapons, and I agree. It would put necromancer in a really good place, where every weapon has a nice preparatory area denial component.

Tobias.8632:

The scourge is OP because most GW2 players are too stupid to think “maybe I shouldn’t try to melee the guy whos primary class mechanic is pulsing area denial”

Thank you. You should make that your signature. Serious L2P issues in this forum in general.

I was quite excited when there were these GW1 dervish elements in the spellbreaker. Weapon, burst, and trait wise the SB feels like a denial mesmer from GW1, but then we have this curious heal skill that removes our own boons. They even mention the class as being these magic hating warriors but the gameplay itself doesn’t capitalise on any of it.

The utilities are garbage and too underpowered, but whats worse is that there could have been a real opportunity for some dervish shenanigans.

For those who don’t know, dervishes in GW1 removed their own enchantments (GW1’s version of boons) to enhance their attacks.

To make SB meditations more thematic, it should have an optional cost of self boon removal. I’m not just suggesting this for thematic additions to the class, but that it should open up more.

For starters, the heal should only remove offense boons, because a healing skill is thematically defensive. This also makes the skill better because as of now, it kinda sucks to lose protection, or resistance, or stability.

The other utilities should also follow a boonstripping behavior, making the skill more powerful if your own boons were stripped. For instance:

Featherfoot grace gets extended superspeed if stability is removed (because you’re going so fast you can’t be stable)

Then, we need some traits reworked that gives the SB benefits for self boon removal.

e.g. Inner Might: Whenever you remove a stack of might, gain a stack of inner might. Inner might grants +20 power and condition damage, maximum stacks 25.

Here we have a trait that is functional and promotes setup. You build up might, you strip it yourself so it can’t get corrupted, and you get an effect that will give you a buff that rewards that setup.

We definitely should have a trait that removes enemy boons whenever we remove our own boons, with a removal cap and an ICD of course.

Svarty.8019:

Remap keys;

• F5 to F1
• F1 to F5

Seems to make sense. F1 remains shroud and the awkward new Shade mechanic goes away onto awkward, hard to reach key.

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!1!1!1!!oneoneone

Axl.8924:

Ramoth.9064:

Mac.7249:

Everyone complaining scourge is too overpowered is obviously unskilled at player vs player. its doable with any class to avoid being bursted. don’t spam all your skills off cooldown, and don’t waste your escapes – i’m not going to tell you how to counter scourge, because that’s your job…

you; “boohoo scourge puts necro on an even playing field nerf nerf nerf”
Anet; " Scourge is equal now? not for long! "
me; “what else is new?”

[rant]
setting aside the obvious flaws in design. the kitten portal, and many “why?” utility mechanics. any other class get useless utilities? i meen for pve, wvw/spvp sure they have great use. but how many monsters have boons to rip for that tiny tick of torment/cripple? in my mind scourge was anet’s answer to the boonshare/condi meta. vanilla necro had no noteworthy condition application only manipulation. reaper wasn’t suppose to be condi spec, but its more bursty than vanilla, and it’s still laughable. even at 100% duration it barely topped 35 bleeds and only for what 8s? less on champions due to innate condition resistance. scourge offers better burst at shorter intervals. overpowered? hell no. balanced and much needed for the CONDITION KING? yes… stop being baddies and ‘l2p’ yes we’re back to that… go sit in free for all and get good like everybody else.
[/rant]

This. I mean, the freaking class mechanic is a shining yellow beacon, it should be obvious that if you stay in it, kitten is going to happen, and not good kitten, very terrible kitten.

Nope, I got people trying to melee me all weekend thinking they are king kitten. Won some 1v3s as well. They were likely bad players but the anti-melee the scourge has is hilarious.

Now, if F3 can be traited to break stuns, we’d be the shining example of perfect.

WHAAAT? i thought you wanted necro condis nerfed?

I have no idea what you are saying and how it responds to what i said.

Scourge – Played, and played against. Played this guy first and thought, gee, if all the classes were this polished the expansion is going to turn out great. Really liked the scourge, definitely some problems with mobility, but it just felt enjoyable being able to be tanky, contesting a point and wreaking havoc
Holosmith – Played against. Still have no idea what this guy does except that they can dish out crazy damage. Good visual designs, very intuitive. Feels like as long as I stay out of the shiny skill radii they weren’t a handful.
Firebrand – Played. Did not like it one bit. Clunky to play, easily destroyed. Mantras are pretty crap except for the elite IMO. Got a fun build lined up for PvE though, 100% crit with no precision and lots of quickness anybody?
Deadeye – Played and played against. Really boring class, feels like a one trick pony.
Spellbreaker – Played and played against. Played this class second, really enjoyed it. The utilities are garbage though. Has the same issues of sustain the warrior has I think, but manageable.
Weaver – Played against. If I vsed some weavers this weekend I surely didn’t notice it.
Mirage – Played against.Feels like every other mesmer. I think they aren’t as deadly as chronomancers though.
Soul Beast – Played against. Same as weaver.
Renegade – Played against Same as weaver.

apharma.3741:

Bella Kim.4061:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Barrier and Shroud probably shouldn’t be calculated as though they were blocks/dodges/evades simply because they can only take so much damage whereas other active defenses can mitigate an infinite amount. If anything, they should be calculated as healing.

I used this formula =

3000 Barrier = Evade Duration 1

3 Blocks = Evade Duration 1

50 Endurance = Evade Duration 0.75

1 Teleport or 1 Shadowstep = Evade Duration 0.5

(Stealth Duration 2 = Evade Duration 1 ) but I took out stealth from the list

Barrier is not equal to an evade, not at all, not even close. You get hit in a 3k barrier by a 15k gunflame it’s still going to take 12k health off you, evade it does 0 damage. You shouldn’t be factoring in barrier without protection and the calculations would get really weird at that point.

Yeah…….I was kinda excited to see the OP’s original numbers then I saw this formula and facepalmed.

Mac.7249:

Everyone complaining scourge is too overpowered is obviously unskilled at player vs player. its doable with any class to avoid being bursted. don’t spam all your skills off cooldown, and don’t waste your escapes – i’m not going to tell you how to counter scourge, because that’s your job…

you; “boohoo scourge puts necro on an even playing field nerf nerf nerf”
Anet; " Scourge is equal now? not for long! "
me; “what else is new?”

[rant]
setting aside the obvious flaws in design. the kitten portal, and many “why?” utility mechanics. any other class get useless utilities? i meen for pve, wvw/spvp sure they have great use. but how many monsters have boons to rip for that tiny tick of torment/cripple? in my mind scourge was anet’s answer to the boonshare/condi meta. vanilla necro had no noteworthy condition application only manipulation. reaper wasn’t suppose to be condi spec, but its more bursty than vanilla, and it’s still laughable. even at 100% duration it barely topped 35 bleeds and only for what 8s? less on champions due to innate condition resistance. scourge offers better burst at shorter intervals. overpowered? hell no. balanced and much needed for the CONDITION KING? yes… stop being baddies and ‘l2p’ yes we’re back to that… go sit in free for all and get good like everybody else.
[/rant]

This. I mean, the freaking class mechanic is a shining yellow beacon, it should be obvious that if you stay in it, kitten is going to happen, and not good kitten, very terrible kitten.

Nope, I got people trying to melee me all weekend thinking they are king kitten. Won some 1v3s as well. They were likely bad players but the anti-melee the scourge has is hilarious.

Now, if F3 can be traited to break stuns, we’d be the shining example of perfect.

The thing is, F2 is so godly I’m ok to have diminished versions of all the traits OP mentioned. Path of corruption with F2 is amazing.

Tiresias.6473:

Sabre.8627:

insaneseagull.7063:

Mikali.9651:

for the first time in 5 years, I will main Necro and I will get to Legendary rank as the worst PvP player you have ever seen while barely doing anything. Maybe I will even eat sandwich while fighting people

Yeah, at its current state it is very OP, so OP that it makes me main it even tho I never ever wanted to play Necro. But you got me, I would be crazy not to play it

#Scourge – HowToGetNecroMains101

It’s op if you’ve got no condi clears or transfers.

That’s about it. If a player is smart he’ll use those two tools against the scourge.

Let’s be real, it’s pretty kitten tough for any current class to deal with all the condi scourge puts out. Doesn’t help that we have 5+ different ways to corrupt resistance and any other boon to cover our torments and burns.

On the flip side, scourge deals with condi extremely well. we have an instant cast f2 that clears 2 or 3 condis every 4 sec. An F skill, that requires no traits or utility sacrifice, cannot be interrupted or stopped. If that isn’t enough, we can just send all of them back with staff or plague signet. And if that fails we have 25k+ health to soak it up until our f2 comes back. Scourge really feels nearly unkillable vs other condi builds, I like that necro is the king of conditions but it seriously needs to be toned down.

Of all the ways I could describe a Scourge, “unkillable” is not an adjective I would use.

Have you not encountered a decent Deadeye yet?

Yeah, and i’ve been trading 50/50 with them (the decent ones that don’t try and just full burst with no defensive skills). Mostly it depends on how much life force I have left, and the fight is mainly dictated by me. The problem with deadeye in spvp against scourge is that you can easily hide behind obstacles, and they can’t step onto the point to decap or contest, because your shades can still get them.

Warrost.4895:

babazhook.6805:

Warrost.4895:

The initiative cost of rifle is too high.
If deadeye would offer a kind of faster initiative regen, this would shake up meta alot.

The costs are fine and in line with any other set if not cheaper for the effecs achieved.

since there are so many blocks and reflects and on top of that, gap closers literally everywhere, even costs of 0 wouldn’t help, since deadeye doesn’t have the possibility for unblocking attacks.

That’s the problem, the class is so all-or-nothing, it feels completely unrewarding. Either I completely tear you down with that utility cantrip that knocks down, spamming kneeled 2, or you have defenses up blocking/reflecting.

When you play thief D/P, its much more dynamic, you go in, do some damage, you get out, then you go back in. You can be very dynamic with the deadeye, i’ve vsed some players who are, teleporting about, but they are just not efficient, and they usually end up getting killed.

And really, why not, rifle is a boring weapon, in all classes that use it.

I made a poison stacking build, kneeled and spammed 2. A couple seconds later some 20 stacks of poison. The problem, as always, is initiative.

The devs may have envisaged it as a way for players to freely decide between what skills to use without managing cooldowns but for the rifle there are very obvious choices to spam because the weapon is so linear in its playstyle

I’d rework it completely like this.

Tomes are instant cast, once cast you ‘tear’ a page out. I.e. you select a skill to equip, also no cast time. That page is a skill and depending on the skill it has a number of charges. Once all charges are depleted the skill in that tome goes on cooldown, but the tome does not. If no pages are equipped the virtues are considered to be unused and the passives will happen.

Oh I thought you meant speed of shadows

Axl.8924:

Hidden Dragon.7523:

Keep into consideration that other classes use this barrier too, and it also applies to your allies. Let’s not make this thing Barrier wars.

Then what would you suggest to make necro solo queueable but not instantly blown up when his shroud is down? because you seem to not be suggesting anything.

I don’t instantly blow up. As scourge I’ve never been tougher. I can get a lot more survivability out of a full bar of LF with scourge than reaper.

DeceiverX.8361:

“Neco lacks active defenses.”

Gets huge damage negation that doesn’t depend on LF/establishing a resource foothold which is why necros get focused and get shut down so easily by being focused.

“14k baseline damage negation with big healing power scaling/BM synergy on high hp pool isn’t good enough.”

C’mon guys, if you play well it negates a huge chunk of potential incoming damage. Even if it needs some minor tweaks regarding baseline degen speed, the amount of sustain it provides is solid given just how ridiculous its condition bomb/boon application is. Barrier is active defense. If it buys you a few seconds per fight, you’ve basically got traited DH virtues which is great.

Sounds to me like people were getting too used to auto-30+ bleed stacks dire/tb reaper with huge shroud pools.

Maybe the Scourge (condition + healing support) just isn’t your style, either.

Honestly, if DecieverX is saying positive stuff about it, it must be true. Jokes aside, I like barrier too

The thing is, with shades and shade skill pbaoe, you don’t need to face the enemy anymore, which elevates skills like dagger 5, and scepter 2, you can just drop it in front of you while kiting. And f1-5 all land very easily

I think having no stability is valid. I’m glad as a scourge it’s finally very deadly to be in melee against. If scourge had a lot of stability it could be too op. It’s very easy to put on conditions while running around. I think barrier is very strong when used properly.

Has bigger damage than dagger, because dagger is too situational I think. mace and shield off hand.

what happened to sand swell? it was still usable last i played.

In terms of damage it is excellent, but its really boring and just feels like ‘another aoe’. I’d rather we have something that is more multi-faceted in uses, like jaunt, than an ‘I-win’ button

Scourge is ridiculously strong in melee in pvp.

I still take so speed of shadows. Pop F5 to get rid of the snare conditions then f2 to get rid of the damaging ones. Easy. And if you take the barrier condition removal you can laugh in the face of condition builds.

Windler.4815:

Ramoth.9064:

Lily.1935:

Ramoth.9064:

Well while I agree with your assessment of some of the existing traits and skills, I think your prediction of scourge was completely wrong.

I’m reviewing the scourge now and I disagree that I’m completely wrong, but I am seeing some areas where I may be incorrect. So you’ll have to wait for my later post.

I’ll agree that the death magic tree is lacking synergy with scourge, but things like dhuumfire has only become an alternate approach, and much better in this case, much harder to evade, you don’t get kited or projectile blocked, instantaneous.

But with skills like F2, you don’t even need shrouded removal anymore. The problems is moreso on the death magic end rather than the scourge end.

Spiteful spirit takes a bit of a back seat now, I completely disagree that it was underpowered before though. And thanks to path of corruption, you don’t even need spiteful spirit anymore. Scourge is just so good, with the traits it does have synergy with, like path of corruption, it just bandaids over anything we might have lost on the ‘enter shroud’ department.

Lol…

Scourge, as it stands, is a burst condi build with little support that is NO FREAKING DIFFERENT than what necro has been in the past. Also, just because there’s two trait lines it synergizes with means necro will be put in a box like it always has been. Tell me… In a PvE instance, what is scourge bringing to the table different than what necro has in the past? Don’t say barrier…

idgaf about pve, ive been talking pvp in this forum the whole time. And if you’re talking about raids, theres no need to run optimal dps builds, its been made very clear you can clear everything with subpar builds.

Lily.1935:

Ramoth.9064:

Well while I agree with your assessment of some of the existing traits and skills, I think your prediction of scourge was completely wrong.

I’m reviewing the scourge now and I disagree that I’m completely wrong, but I am seeing some areas where I may be incorrect. So you’ll have to wait for my later post.

I’ll agree that the death magic tree is lacking synergy with scourge, but things like dhuumfire has only become an alternate approach, and much better in this case, much harder to evade, you don’t get kited or projectile blocked, instantaneous.

But with skills like F2, you don’t even need shrouded removal anymore. The problems is moreso on the death magic end rather than the scourge end.

Spiteful spirit takes a bit of a back seat now, I completely disagree that it was underpowered before though. And thanks to path of corruption, you don’t even need spiteful spirit anymore. Scourge is just so good, with the traits it does have synergy with, like path of corruption, it just bandaids over anything we might have lost on the ‘enter shroud’ department.

Well while I agree with your assessment of some of the existing traits and skills, I think your prediction of scourge was completely wrong.

Axl.8924:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Zefiris.8297:

Also keep in mind that if traited, the Pillar is also a heal (try it out at lower HP to see how much it actually does) that also revives people. That, together with the fear AND the shade attacks does make it worth its cost.

Also worth noting that if you have Transfusion traited and pop Garish Pillar right before you go down, it starts to revive you immedietly.

I don’t see anything listed which works with pillars mind linking it please?

Jesus christ dude, think of all the shade skills as shroud skills 1-5. whatever works for shroud skill 4 works for shade skill 4.

and speed of shadows works for shade skill 5. have it equipped. press F5 and watch yourself get swiftness. It’d be nice if you actually knew something correct before spouting nonsense.

it counts once from the player and once from the shade no?

Axl.8924:

30k? you really are a troll.I got like 22.7k hp.

Also enemies can hit for up to 10-15k easily with burst.Even rangers with their arrow shot on longbow can easily do that much or a necro with axe.

You go into pvp. Make a demo character. Equip the carrion amulet. Kthxbye. You’re assuming just because you have trouble playing everyone else has. That is not true.

This isn’t even scourge related anymore at this point. The carrion amulet has been around for 5 years now.

Axl.8924:

Tell that to me when you get blown up instantly and die the second a melee ccs you and does instantly 15-20k burst.You will be dead before you can bleed or do anything.

Have 30k hp, I don’t die instantly, and I have the dodge button. Been tearing melee players apart all day

Axl.8924:

Zefiris.8297:

Axl.8924:

The barrier is kitteningly weak.its so horrid i am free kill to anyone.Either Make the barrier not decay and give us at least 15k barrier, or give us a barrier of 30 k that degrades after 10 seconds maybe.

once again we necros are free kills guess i’m rerolling to thief cause i’m not gonna stand around and instantly die cause no ccs and no barrier and warriors blow you up instantly.

You people do want to be unkillable gods, don’t you.

Your “suggestion” is so ridiculously overpowered it’s not even funny…

How would it be op if thats what we had in barrier when we were with reaper? we had like 30k energy or something last 10 sec or almost so? especially if we are going to be using it.Yeah we have a low cooldown but the minute that shield is on a cooldown and your cced and can’t escape, your dead.So you choose:Either we are free kills who can’t survive by ourselves and barely with a group or we get a decent survival and some good ccs to escape.

We need to survive, we are a condi class which can be bursted down nearly instantly.That is unbalanced and broken.Besides:The barrier would be capped and right now its obsurd we have a barrier in 2-4k even if its on a 15 sec cd its not enough to save us most of the time.We are literally blown up instantly by melee classes.

Either our shield needs to go up or our ccs and mobility need to go up or we need to have the best dps in all of spvp so we are actually feared and not just seen as free kills.

If 15k is too much then leave it at 10k and have it not degrade.Besides its already capped at 10k.And if 30k degrading in 10 sec is too much have a possibility of 15k degrading in 10 sec.Is that balanced? i dont’ want to be god mode but i don’t want to be free kills either, as that isn’t fun.

Lol. We have 4 instant cast skills that are way better than anything reaper had for survivability.

Iridi.8473:

Zefiris.8297:

Iridi.8473:

Zefiris.8297:

Iridi.8473:

ceejay.2517:

I don’t agree. Considering how much access to barrier we have, and their cooldowns, its not in a terrible place.

I think we should see how it plays out over a few weeks before deciding its too fast.

Wrong. Its “access” is crap. 2k, 5k, 4.3k, 1.4k are the barrier numbers from the skills that grant barriers.

*Baseline, without Healing Power
*Which still are respectable and useful numbers

Keep telling yourself that. Im sure your mediocre barrier healing power support burn torment corrupt boon scourge will have massive impact in WvW and PvP.

Keep telling yourself that. I’m sure it is a good excuse.

Not an excuse. Just facts that its crap. Has 0 synergy with anything else necro has. But you can go run your barriers that last for 6 seconds. Like i said, im sure it will have massive impact when the condis are killing you after your barriers expire.

What are you smoking anyways? If you have damaging conditions on you, you activate a barrier and it will need to eat through the barrier first? What is so hard to understand? In fact it works exactly like shroud.

I think I’m curses any,2,2. Sr 3,2,3. Scourge 3,3,1!

Why is everyone so caught up by the decay? You use it the moment before the damage hits. Which is actually nit very hard in a spammy game. The barrier soaks up most of the damage and you take very little hp loss. The decay doesnt matter.

That said, i do agree with the healing power thing, but only because the scaling is crap.

Iridi.8473:

Ramoth.9064:

F2 is so ridiculously powerful as a condi clear. If you have troubles with condi as scourge its a l2p issue. The real challenge is lack of stability.

You’re joking, right? 2 condis converted? That’ll do…. oh yea, absolutely nothing in wvw.

I guess every other class that doesn’t have a full Cindi cleanse must be nothing as well then. In wvw you have a potential 20 condi convert every 4 seconds for 1.2k lf and thats bad?

Iridi.8473:

Ramoth.9064:

Iridi.8473:

Zefiris.8297:

“Support? A barrier that degenerates fast is equal to a low ticking regen boon.”

No, it’s vastly superior to an extent that having to actually explain it to you is baffling.

You use it when you predict incoming damage. If you have any amount of skill, this means that it is VASTLY better than regen ever could be, because it will always have its utmost impact, and massively increase EHP.

No, because of condi damage. Rofl, its so funny how so completely wrong you are. I’ll sit back and laugh while you predict how much condi damage you take before you die since your barriers are gone.

LOOOOOOOOOL
L2F2. Barrier is pretty much n instant heal in combat, you see a spike, you barrier. Its not rocket science.

Yea gl with that. Let me know how it goes when you’re constantly dying to condis. L2NotPlayPvE

I’ve been winning 1v2s all day in pvp. Just letting you know.

Iridi.8473:

Zefiris.8297:

“Support? A barrier that degenerates fast is equal to a low ticking regen boon.”

No, it’s vastly superior to an extent that having to actually explain it to you is baffling.

You use it when you predict incoming damage. If you have any amount of skill, this means that it is VASTLY better than regen ever could be, because it will always have its utmost impact, and massively increase EHP.

No, because of condi damage. Rofl, its so funny how so completely wrong you are. I’ll sit back and laugh while you predict how much condi damage you take before you die since your barriers are gone.

LOOOOOOOOOL
L2F2. Barrier is pretty much n instant heal in combat, you see a spike, you barrier. Its not rocket science.

F2 is so ridiculously powerful as a condi clear. If you have troubles with condi as scourge its a l2p issue. The real challenge is lack of stability.

Scourge is so much better. 5 actually useful skills at all times instead of only when in shroud

Ok after having played scourge I don’t think I can ever go back to necromancer or reaper.

The reason being, 5 on demand shade skills with incredibly utility is just way too good, and the problem with shroud skills is well, you can only use it in shroud.

It got me thinking:

1. What if shroud has no cooldown?
2. Well that would just be OP because of all the shroud entry traits.
3. Ok, lets put an ICD on those traits (yes yes, ICD sucks, I know)
4. Before SoS got changed, we were able to adjust between 10 or 7 second cooldown for shroud entry traits. Make all shroud entry traits a ‘shroud’ skill, .‘. vital persistence will give it 20% CDR.
5. Ok, but that still sounds a bit OP, being able to enter and exit shroud whenever. It’d kinda seem like an engineer kit, except, you get a healthbar too boot.

So here is what I propose. When you exit shroud, there is a soft cooldown, and a hard cooldown. The hard cooldown is 1 second so you don’t accidentally enter exit, enter exit. The soft cooldown is 10 seconds. In order to re-enter shroud you need to spend life force, based on the amount of cooldown left on the soft cooldown.

So you can enter and exit shroud, and enter again immediately 1 second afterwards, but you’d lose a chunk of life force first. This reduces the management needed for shroud to work, currently we wrestle with life force and time. This shifts more of the management into life force, and is in line with the Scourge’s ability to instantly use the profession specific skills.

whats so bad defensively? we have the best condi cleanse we’ve ever had, with path of corruption F2 becomes OP.

Loving the class, been playing Condi in spvp and enemies are melting. most of the utilities seem a bit useless, I don’t think any of them are any good. The elite is great, and the heal is ok.

Torch 5 is a fun skill, easy to land, and 4 is a nice burst of damage afterwards.

the shade skills are AWESOME. id take it over shrouds any day.

best design is definitely the traits, most of them have excellent synergy, particularly between the adept and master traits. I feel sand savant is much better than the other two grandmasters at the moment.

Brokensunday.4098:

tested barrier is worst defense for a necro than death shroud… new spec condi is really good so one trick pony
on spvp you will die even faster

not having this problem at all. been winning 1v2 all day. the condi burst is real.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ramoth.9064:

scourge is so durable, just keep using the barrier when its off cd in a fight, its so cheap to cast.

Only with a Power build, though. Condi builds lack the life force generation to keep that up.

nah, ive been running carrion with a well timed spectral armor, gives you lots of mileage.

scourge is really tough, you just have to keep thinking of barriering as much as possible.

i’ve had ppl just disintegrate when they try to focus me in melee

scourge is so durable, just keep using the barrier when its off cd in a fight, its so cheap to cast.

Oh PvE? I don’t care about PvE