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Speed of Shadows give it back !!!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

The 3 second cooldown is useful in a very specific scenario. This condi removal has more uses and indirectly buffs traits like shrouded removal. I’d say the trade is about even.

That scenario isn’t as specific as you would think.

The primary cause of death for necromancers in PvP is getting spiked while shroud is on cooldown. old Speed of Shadows meant that necromancer had a lower vulnerability window.

The thing is, Adept SR has soul marks, unlike Master SR which really only had VP worth taking. I’m sure as hell there are a lot of necros with soul marks, and still are, all with 10second cds.

And they are much easier to kill because of it. Power shouldn’t even be using staff since greatsword (especially with the new Soul Eater trait) is vastly superior in both utility, control, and damage. Condi builds of course use Soul Marks and Staff, but condi builds are trash in solo queue.

There are so many variables to this discussion I don’t think its worth pursing. Sure, 7s CD is better than 10s CD, no doubt about it.

Speed of Shadows give it back !!!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

The 3 second cooldown is useful in a very specific scenario. This condi removal has more uses and indirectly buffs traits like shrouded removal. I’d say the trade is about even.

That scenario isn’t as specific as you would think.

The primary cause of death for necromancers in PvP is getting spiked while shroud is on cooldown. old Speed of Shadows meant that necromancer had a lower vulnerability window.

The thing is, Adept SR has soul marks, unlike Master SR which really only had VP worth taking. I’m sure as hell there are a lot of necros with soul marks, and still are, all with 10second cds.

Speed of Shadows give it back !!!

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

After taking some time to do the math, you’re right. It’s even worse than I thought! That explains why I couldn’t keep anyone alive in Fractals this evening.

As for the buff to revive percentage, from having used the old state of it frequently and using the new state now, that really doesn’t amount to much. Sure, it helps, but it’s much more viable to keep people from being downed in the first place. Sigh…

12.5% nerf is not as bad as what you said, which was 30%. Anyhow, its nothing to write home about.

Oh no, VP nerf, wat will we do...?

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

I mean, Reaper Shroud is a build that received ZERO attention, despite all its flaws and middling damage, until it was heavily nerfed two days ago. I struggled to find even a single recent thread about it.

I don’t understand why ANet should stress about keeping a build that isn’t very good intact.

THIS. Camping shroud does less DPS than dagger auto iirc. People are deluding themselves that you should be staying in shroud for as long as possible aside from the fact that it is aesthetically pleasing. Practicality wise its a stupid crutch.

Oh no, VP nerf, wat will we do...?

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Learning how to play the spec? pressing F1 then wailing on 1 is hard? For some reason people who play power reapers exclusively seem to be on some high horse thinking condi is easier to play. I have both sets of gear btw. And since you are talking about collecting gear Ill have to assume you’re talking PVE. Condi rotations are definitely harder to play to reach optimal DPS. and this is PVE we’re talking about, where things die left right and center, you have no NEED for actual life force management. YOu can be wailing on 3 things with RS1, getting 6% back in 2.37 seconds.

Most of you people crying about VP haven’t even done the maths or actually considered in a realistic scenario. You have people like DeceiverX saying shroud runs out in 10 seconds on a full bar, with no damage taken. No. No it doesn’t. If you get focused in pvp, VP won’t save you. If you’re kittening about the duration loss from VP then you’re camping shroud. its as simple as that.

That’s an awful lot of projection, assumptions, and strawman arguments to pack into a single post. Even your lead argument (“For some reason people who play power reapers exclusively seem to be on some high horse thinking condi is easier to play.”) is some wild speculation that I never even hinted towards at any time in any post that I’ve ever made on these forums… ever.

What, exactly, is wrong with you? Can’t stand for people to play the game in a manner that is different from your own? Don’t like to see other people have nice things? Believe that it’s your way or the highway?

I mean, Reaper Shroud is a build that received ZERO attention, despite all its flaws and middling damage, until it was heavily nerfed two days ago. I struggled to find even a single recent thread about it.

Then the spec take a MASSIVE hit directly to the broadside and people like you come out of the woodwork with half-baked “opinions” about all this stuff that isn’t even relevant. Seriously — Lifeforce management? Reaper Shroud doesn’t manage Lifeforce in PvE; the very purpose of the build is to spend as much time in Shroud as possible and as little time out of it as manageable, beyond perhaps firing off utility skills.

Of course, you likely don’t know that because you’ve never really played the build. In other words, you’re just talking out your cornhole.

You are the embodiment of everything you’ve just said about me. What did you say in my other thread, that I don’t know anything and I’m that guy? I have the maths and the evidence to back up my claims, so far the only person who is screaming my way or the highway is YOU.

It’s not like the nerfs only happened to you, and not me. I have a full ascended power spec which i jokingly made as valkyrie, so yes, I do play a power reaper, and its not hard. You don’t have to learn how to play a spec where you just press F1 and autoattack. There is no reason why in the 10 seconds you leave shroud, you can’t recharge a full lifeforce bar in PvE.

WTF did you do to fractals?

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Agreed. They are supposed to be dungeons, not raids. Anet has been failing miserably for the last 3 fractal releases, each one becoming more raid than dungeon. Nobody gave a kitten about stepping stones to raids. If you want to get into raids, find a group for raids…

If that’s failing miserably, I’d love them to fail more.

I expect them to do so. But fractals are just getting more boring every release.

Boss 1 > boss 2
Boss 1 > boss 2 > boss 3
Boss 1 > boss 2 > boss 3

Sure the mechanics change, the the formula is on repeat.

Are you the kind of player than enjoys aquatic by chance ?

I get the feeling from the complaint of formulaic design that you’d personally love it.

More boss rush, less exploration please.

Speed of Shadows give it back !!!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

As someone who used the three second recharge reduction quite frequently, I’m saddened to see it go. I fancy myself as somewhat of a build experimenter, originating since the Guild Wars 1 days, and loved to create unique-yet-effective things just to keep my interests going. Admittedly, it has been a bit of a struggle to keep that trend going strong in Guild Wars 2, for reasons I’m sure you all know, but it seems that update after update, the opportunity for variety is getting smaller and smaller.

One note on the new Speed of Shadows skill is that its functionality change has, from what I’m reading, reduced the value of the trait Relentless Pursuit significantly. Movement mitigation conditions reduced versus just removing them completely, I’d go with the latter option, and then just let my blinds, fear, and freezes do the rest for me in terms of preventing said conditions coming back on me while I’m fighting. Perhaps Shroud cooldown reduction could go there instead, which in turn would have it compete with Augury of Death and Chilling Nova. Removing it from the game entirely really hurt the value of Shroud, the necromancer’s primary mechanic (and as demonstrated from certain angrier threads involving Vital Persistence, made the entire Soul Reaping trait line lackluster).

Another thing was that it worked quite well with Foot in the Grave, a grandmaster trait. I felt it was a necessary synergy there given the lack of Stability the necromancer has, and when you have hardly any Stability, you’ll want as many stun breaks as you can get! Using those two traits with each other was just another way to survive, especially in things like WvW, and on the PvE scene, the absurd amount of knockbacks Fractal 100 CM presents.

Life From Death, a skill that’s received a buff lately, benefits from flashing Shroud. To be quite frank, this was one of the traits I’ve been using for a long time and had thoroughly enjoyed. And although it received a 25% healing buff, since you can no longer use it every seven seconds, but ten, it’s actually a 30% nerf, resulting in a 5% overall nerf which will, unfortunately and very likely, still see it seldom used with builds. Unless you spec to a healing build, and quite literally minmax it, it seems this doesn’t help the survivability of the necromancer terribly well, and with nerfs to condition damage, all in all, the necromancer is beginning to feel like a sitting duck in most scenarios—PvP and WvW, anyway. PvE, what they’re best at support-wise doesn’t work on bosses (Understandable, but I could see it being fit into the system in the way that they’d work on a boss whose breakbar is orange and recharging as opposed to blue.)

Anyway, that’s my two cents. I only hope that the balance team would see this post and perhaps reconsider adding in the Shroud cooldown reduction back into the game. There’s always hope!

Life from death is a 12.5% nerf, not 30%, in terms of healing. In terms of reviving its a 40% buff.

Speed of Shadows give it back !!!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

The condi removal is actually such a good buff, I’d take it over the old SoS.

Especially if you run plague signet and you get bombed with condi. You remove all the non damaging ones and only send the damaging ones back.

The condi remove is great solves alot of problems for the reaper the only bad this is we dont hace the 3 secs resuction thatn on power reaper was a must but its ok can be manageble

The 3 second cooldown is useful in a very specific scenario. This condi removal has more uses and indirectly buffs traits like shrouded removal. I’d say the trade is about even.

What are you guys talking about?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

You didn’t play yesterday did you

I co main a condi thief and ive been told multiple times over that the build for it is max cancer

I already normally target necros just because

Yesterday there wasn’t 1 necros I faced that could handle me at all

What used to be a long drawn out but fun fight would end in less than 10 secs

So while you question what everyone was whining about, I question if you even pvp

I point out that the patch for necro was mostly buffs and your counter argument to that is that I didn’t run into some condi thief build yesterday? And based on that you question if I PvP at all?
k

I practically never used that trait and could give less of a kitten about it. I’ve never even really used soul reaping much after like 2014 as I find the whole line to be lacklustre. Any time I have ran soul reaping I never even noticed vital persistence. In WvW/PvP that trait was never needed in any scenario.

I agree.

I get that 7 sec Shroud cooldown makes certain PvE dps rotations more optimal, but from a PvP perspective: you can’t use Shroud immediately after it’s off cd every time anyway, also, if you use a staff Soul Marks is a no-brainer.

for me and many that relied on 7sec Speed of Shadows isnt a fkng buff

You relied on it? How?
Are you one of the very few necros who don’t use a staff in PvP?

Speed of Shadows. Awesome buff. Up to now it was basically the awkward trait you’d have to pick if you didn’t use a staff, but now it’s a viable alternative regardless.

Come on man, I know you know better than this. Soft CC removal + Swiftness in exchange for losing the reduced Shroud cooldown is a bad trade off in most scenarios.

Actually, whenever you face a necro and/or ele there’s a lot of chill being cast constantly. And, as you know, chilled doesn’t just slow you down but also all your cooldowns. So in those fights cleansing chilled on Shroud entry is rather likely to save you more total cooldown time than you’d get from the occasional 3 secs on Shroud.
Also, flashing Shroud for swiftness should come in handy every now and then, which btw is a little better than the old 25% in Shroud only.

This, so much this.

Speed of Shadows give it back !!!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

The condi removal is actually such a good buff, I’d take it over the old SoS.

Especially if you run plague signet and you get bombed with condi. You remove all the non damaging ones and only send the damaging ones back.

Oh no, VP nerf, wat will we do...?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

You are the second idi… person to say this. I’ve already replied to your kind once and I can’t be bothered to come up with something significantly different to say, so I’ll say the exact same thing again:

My hatred of these kinds of arguments knows no bounds. Let me boil this mentality down to its bare essence:

“Just deal with the fact that your build was severely crippled without warning.”

Unacceptable. Many people — not just me — are using a Reaper Shroud build because they enjoy it and have invested a significant amount of time into acquiring gear and learning how to play the spec.

Bear in mind that this is a spec that isn’t considered to be the most powerful way to play a Necromancer. The damage output is decidedly worse than a condition build and it offers almost nothing in the way of group utility. On top of all of that, Necromancer as a class is performing worse than almost every other class in the game in terms of damage and utility.

And it’s not like this is a recent problem! The issues with Necromancers are well-known and have been discussed to death. If they were concerned about these two very necessary traits not affecting Sand Shroud they could have literally just buffed them by adding in the new effects (Swiftness on Speed of Shadows and Vitality on Vital Persistence) without changing anything else and it STILL wouldn’t have fixed the core issues that the Necromancer class faces.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I enjoyed the Reaper Shroud build because of the visual effects and mobility. In reality it’s mostly an auto-attack spec that doesn’t even have access to utility skills most of the time.

So yes, I can “adapt”, but there is no good reason that I should have to. This was a scorched earth approach to addressing a problem that didn’t actually exist. The “solution” was not only lazy, it feels terrible.

And to top it off, there was no warning! So now I’m stuck with gear for a build that doesn’t work anymore, and my choices are to either go with a Greatsword power build that is even LESS effective than the already underperforming build that I was using yesterday or scramble to put together a set of condition gear.

I can’t even begin to describe how terrible that feels.

Small update for modern times:

No, a 25% reduction in Lifeforce decay will not account for the loss of the 50% reduction in decay and 7s cooldown. There is still no reason to take the Soul Reaping traitline now and the Reaper Shroud builds are still suffering under heavy-handed nerfs.

Learning how to play the spec? pressing F1 then wailing on 1 is hard? For some reason people who play power reapers exclusively seem to be on some high horse thinking condi is easier to play. I have both sets of gear btw. And since you are talking about collecting gear Ill have to assume you’re talking PVE. Condi rotations are definitely harder to play to reach optimal DPS. and this is PVE we’re talking about, where things die left right and center, you have no NEED for actual life force management. YOu can be wailing on 3 things with RS1, getting 6% back in 2.37 seconds.

Most of you people crying about VP haven’t even done the maths or actually considered in a realistic scenario. You have people like DeceiverX saying shroud runs out in 10 seconds on a full bar, with no damage taken. No. No it doesn’t. If you get focused in pvp, VP won’t save you. If you’re kittening about the duration loss from VP then you’re camping shroud. its as simple as that.

Vital Persistence nerf pt. 2

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

It should have been made 33% or 50%. 25% is still too low so this change still hurts a lot when they didnt buff all the other traits that depended on VP

They took away $100 from us and then gave us back $50 and acted like it was a great thing to do.

33% gives you 3.5 extra seconds in shroud compared to the 25% reduction they applied today. Really man?

Vital Persistence nerf

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

It’s still not going to mean anything with SoS deleted lol.
The movespeed and shroud cdr needed to be boonless/persistent. Shroud now lasts 13s instead of 20s, which is still crap for SR.

Some guy in the other thread just tested this to be wrong. Its working as intended, went from 50>25>33.3

What are you guys talking about?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Yes, finally, people with cooler heads. That’s exactly what I’ve been saying yesterday OP. You shouldn’t be camping shroud in the first place, power reaper or no.

Rejoice!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

The 25% number is pitiful and just nerfs power damage while buffing condi sustain lol. It’s 3 extra seconds.

What are you on about… It’s 8.3 seconds more now

Weird because it was lasting 10s yesterday.

The base drain is 4% according to wiki. Now it’s 3%

Which is again, definitely not what it was doing as of yesterday.

It was 10s from 100 to 0.

Hmm well the wiki doesn’t explicitly say what the reaper shroud drain is. Guess I’ll test tonight

It was 4% (25 seconds) yesterday and it is 3% (33 seconds) today. Everything worked and works like intended by the devs.

Nothing is intended by the devs, you give them too much credit.

Did you read what I responded to?

We were talking about bugs: 10 seconds degen – which clearly would not have been intended. But there was no 10 second degen yesterday, which means it worked as intended.

Yeah, thats what I was saying before, the 10s degen sounds like exaggeration

Rejoice!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

The 25% number is pitiful and just nerfs power damage while buffing condi sustain lol. It’s 3 extra seconds.

What are you on about… It’s 8.3 seconds more now

Weird because it was lasting 10s yesterday.

The base drain is 4% according to wiki. Now it’s 3%

Which is again, definitely not what it was doing as of yesterday.

It was 10s from 100 to 0.

Hmm well the wiki doesn’t explicitly say what the reaper shroud drain is. Guess I’ll test tonight

Rejoice!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

The 25% number is pitiful and just nerfs power damage while buffing condi sustain lol. It’s 3 extra seconds.

What are you on about… It’s 8.3 seconds more now

Weird because it was lasting 10s yesterday.

The base drain is 4% according to wiki. Now it’s 3%

Rejoice!

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

The 25% number is pitiful and just nerfs power damage while buffing condi sustain lol. It’s 3 extra seconds.

What are you on about… It’s 8.3 seconds more now

Signet of Suffering Rework Problem

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

I actually think this is the worst change of all in the patch. Makes no sense to gather condi in shroud, and you dont even get the LF like unholy martyr

Raise Your Hand if you Don't Play SR

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Typically those who didn’t need SR were those who played braindead Condi based builds (to include hybrids). This was supposed to be the patch that buffed power reaper, not nerf them into oblivion.

Tell me how power reaper is not brain dead again? VP nerf affects how much RS1 you can throw out, it doesn’t affect any of the RS skills in the long run. If pressing 1 all day isnt brain dead, i dont know what is, because you sure as hell can’t do that on a condi build.

RIP Signets and Crit Strikes

in Thief

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

im actually really liking my valkyrie, shadow, crit, trickery D/P build

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Yeah sure, there’s barely a silver lining to VP getting nerfed, but even without it, at over 50%, its enough to pull off an RS4, RS5 and a couple auto chains of RS1 for good measure.

I’m talking PvP of course. You can still sponge burst attacks with shroud, even more than before if you pick up the new VP.

Its really not the end of the world.

Unless you are camping shroud of course, in which case LOL.

im 100% sure your not playing anykind of working Power build thats for freaking sure…
your those condi meta boys am i right ?

as a Power Reaper ALLOT of our dmg is in the form… ALLOT…

Ok, then I’m sure you’re setting because I’ve been playing power the last two seasons.

pocket ele ?

No. And if you’re not contributing to the conversion I’ll refrain from replying to you. I’m happy for anyone to disagree with me, but personally I don’t think this is the end of Necro

There can still be specs which exist that dont sit in death shroud. Of course there can. A proc based spec on condi necro will be really strong still for example. The point is one of build diversity and varied play styles. There is now many less ways to build a necro. Fringe builds which were kind of bad are now worthless. Power necro based around death shroud is also now really nerfed.

I think he is a whiteknight he wont gonna under stand it….

most of the Power Builds and even some of the condy builds got pounded to the ground… with these changes…..

People who disagree with you = white knight? Are you 5? See what I did there?

talks the one that Disagrees with Everyone lol

you realy don’t think that what your defending is just wrong when every single person disagrees with you ?

your the only person here saying its fine lol and not just in this topic but in the entire necro sub forum….

but sure defend a totaly obivious Balancing fail from the Devs part…..

Time magazine also applauded kitten in 1939 btw.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Yeah sure, there’s barely a silver lining to VP getting nerfed, but even without it, at over 50%, its enough to pull off an RS4, RS5 and a couple auto chains of RS1 for good measure.

I’m talking PvP of course. You can still sponge burst attacks with shroud, even more than before if you pick up the new VP.

Its really not the end of the world.

Unless you are camping shroud of course, in which case LOL.

im 100% sure your not playing anykind of working Power build thats for freaking sure…
your those condi meta boys am i right ?

as a Power Reaper ALLOT of our dmg is in the form… ALLOT…

Ok, then I’m sure you’re setting because I’ve been playing power the last two seasons.

pocket ele ?

No. And if you’re not contributing to the conversion I’ll refrain from replying to you. I’m happy for anyone to disagree with me, but personally I don’t think this is the end of Necro

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Yeah sure, there’s barely a silver lining to VP getting nerfed, but even without it, at over 50%, its enough to pull off an RS4, RS5 and a couple auto chains of RS1 for good measure.

I’m talking PvP of course. You can still sponge burst attacks with shroud, even more than before if you pick up the new VP.

Its really not the end of the world.

Unless you are camping shroud of course, in which case LOL.

im 100% sure your not playing anykind of working Power build thats for freaking sure…
your those condi meta boys am i right ?

as a Power Reaper ALLOT of our dmg is in the form… ALLOT…

Ok, then I’m sure you’re setting because I’ve been playing power the last two seasons.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Here is a list posted by another player:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They nerfed the following traits by up to 50% indirectly:

Repears might
Rending shroud
Signets of suffering
Armored shroud
Shrouded removal
Deadly Strength
Unholy Sanctuary
Unholy Martyr
Unyielding blast
Death perception
Dhuumfire
Relentless Pursuit
Blighters boon

add speed of shadows

That isn’t entirely correct. For instance, you don’t need 50 seconds of shroud to get 25 might with reapers might, you only need just under 20, talking reaper btw. Which would still be an impractical thing to do.

???

You can still use reapers might to its full affect without VP. It takes a reaper less than 20 seconds to do 25 autoattcks in RS.

The point is you are running a spec where you want to spam 1 in RS then you are staying in DS for longer than a few seconds. The longer you stay in RS the more shroud you lose with this change. So the trait is nerfed by making it less desirable to now stay in death shroud for any extended period of times. Thus all the traits which mean make use of death shroud for more than a few seconds are worse because to utilise those traits to their fullest potential you will then have less HP (via less RS)

Are we talking PvP here? Because I wouldn’t waste my shroud spamming RS1. You wouldn’t do that raiding either and if its general PVE well, tbh anything goes. And yes, VP does hurt a few things like blighters boon, sure. Its definitely not as expansive as that list you say.

In pvp yes there are many builds where you spend time in DS spamming 1

For a full 50 seconds? Mind you, the more damage you take, the less of a difference VP makes.

Why are you on about the full 50 seconds? This doesnt matter because death shroud is a resource. If you get to 25 stacks of might with 2k death shroud left that is way way way worse than getting to 25 stacks of might with 10k death shroud left (numbers are just for demonstrations, not accurate)

The old VP let’s you sit in shroud for 50 seconds… As opposed to 25. And the situations used to illustrate the 50vs25 are unrealistic.

In a realistic scenario, when you have damage to deal with, CC to use, it’s not likely you’ll see the full effect of the 25 second benefit.

You have twisted this conversation into something it isnt. The point made was that traits which synergise with vital persistence are now a lot worse. And there is a lot of traits which synergised with vital persistence so that is a lot of nerfed traits.

That is it. If you disagree or do not understand this then I dont think we are going to progress this conversation as we obviously fundamentally disagree.

This is different to other trait nerfs. For example the dhuumfire nerf was considerable but only effected that single trait. This trait is the core of the necro profession for a lot of specs and many traits are not viable at all without using vital persistence too.

I am talking about pvp, I dont know about pve. I was the highest rated solo player on EU prior to HOT. I quit when HOT came out, returned for a few months during the solo queue and easily got to legend despite not having played for 2 years. I know this change is huge for pvp necros.

Well i thought it was obvious we don’t fundamentally agree to begin with, and I’m ok with that.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Here is a list posted by another player:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They nerfed the following traits by up to 50% indirectly:

Repears might
Rending shroud
Signets of suffering
Armored shroud
Shrouded removal
Deadly Strength
Unholy Sanctuary
Unholy Martyr
Unyielding blast
Death perception
Dhuumfire
Relentless Pursuit
Blighters boon

add speed of shadows

That isn’t entirely correct. For instance, you don’t need 50 seconds of shroud to get 25 might with reapers might, you only need just under 20, talking reaper btw. Which would still be an impractical thing to do.

???

You can still use reapers might to its full affect without VP. It takes a reaper less than 20 seconds to do 25 autoattcks in RS.

The point is you are running a spec where you want to spam 1 in RS then you are staying in DS for longer than a few seconds. The longer you stay in RS the more shroud you lose with this change. So the trait is nerfed by making it less desirable to now stay in death shroud for any extended period of times. Thus all the traits which mean make use of death shroud for more than a few seconds are worse because to utilise those traits to their fullest potential you will then have less HP (via less RS)

Are we talking PvP here? Because I wouldn’t waste my shroud spamming RS1. You wouldn’t do that raiding either and if its general PVE well, tbh anything goes. And yes, VP does hurt a few things like blighters boon, sure. Its definitely not as expansive as that list you say.

In pvp yes there are many builds where you spend time in DS spamming 1

For a full 50 seconds? Mind you, the more damage you take, the less of a difference VP makes.

Why are you on about the full 50 seconds? This doesnt matter because death shroud is a resource. If you get to 25 stacks of might with 2k death shroud left that is way way way worse than getting to 25 stacks of might with 10k death shroud left (numbers are just for demonstrations, not accurate)

The old VP let’s you sit in shroud for 50 seconds… As opposed to 25. And the situations used to illustrate the 50vs25 are unrealistic.

In a realistic scenario, when you have damage to deal with, CC to use, it’s not likely you’ll see the full effect of the 25 second benefit.

How to buff fear of death.

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

So with the VP nerf it kinda seems like anet forgot to buff fear of death, it’s still garbage. In addition to its current fear effects, I would do this: you gain 4% life force per second while downed.

This helps heaps in pvp, surviving 5 seconds and dying means you respawn with the ability to at least enter shroud, and if you rally you can be in shroud straight away to fight on.

(edited by Ramoth.9064)

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Here is a list posted by another player:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They nerfed the following traits by up to 50% indirectly:

Repears might
Rending shroud
Signets of suffering
Armored shroud
Shrouded removal
Deadly Strength
Unholy Sanctuary
Unholy Martyr
Unyielding blast
Death perception
Dhuumfire
Relentless Pursuit
Blighters boon

add speed of shadows

That isn’t entirely correct. For instance, you don’t need 50 seconds of shroud to get 25 might with reapers might, you only need just under 20, talking reaper btw. Which would still be an impractical thing to do.

???

You can still use reapers might to its full affect without VP. It takes a reaper less than 20 seconds to do 25 autoattcks in RS.

The point is you are running a spec where you want to spam 1 in RS then you are staying in DS for longer than a few seconds. The longer you stay in RS the more shroud you lose with this change. So the trait is nerfed by making it less desirable to now stay in death shroud for any extended period of times. Thus all the traits which mean make use of death shroud for more than a few seconds are worse because to utilise those traits to their fullest potential you will then have less HP (via less RS)

Are we talking PvP here? Because I wouldn’t waste my shroud spamming RS1. You wouldn’t do that raiding either and if its general PVE well, tbh anything goes. And yes, VP does hurt a few things like blighters boon, sure. Its definitely not as expansive as that list you say.

In pvp yes there are many builds where you spend time in DS spamming 1

For a full 50 seconds? Mind you, the more damage you take, the less of a difference VP makes.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Look I’m not saying it isn’t a nerf, it’s just that I think the scenarios where VP makes a considerable difference over no VP is not as much as what people are saying at the moment.

And across many game modes camping shroud is just not a good thing to do to begin with.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Here is a list posted by another player:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They nerfed the following traits by up to 50% indirectly:

Repears might
Rending shroud
Signets of suffering
Armored shroud
Shrouded removal
Deadly Strength
Unholy Sanctuary
Unholy Martyr
Unyielding blast
Death perception
Dhuumfire
Relentless Pursuit
Blighters boon

add speed of shadows

That isn’t entirely correct. For instance, you don’t need 50 seconds of shroud to get 25 might with reapers might, you only need just under 20, talking reaper btw. Which would still be an impractical thing to do.

???

You can still use reapers might to its full affect without VP. It takes a reaper less than 20 seconds to do 25 autoattcks in RS.

The point is you are running a spec where you want to spam 1 in RS then you are staying in DS for longer than a few seconds. The longer you stay in RS the more shroud you lose with this change. So the trait is nerfed by making it less desirable to now stay in death shroud for any extended period of times. Thus all the traits which mean make use of death shroud for more than a few seconds are worse because to utilise those traits to their fullest potential you will then have less HP (via less RS)

Are we talking PvP here? Because I wouldn’t waste my shroud spamming RS1. You wouldn’t do that raiding either and if its general PVE well, tbh anything goes. And yes, VP does hurt a few things like blighters boon, sure. Its definitely not as expansive as that list you say.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Since beta. Also got to high platinum.

Ok fair enough, I am just a little confused by some of your posts, or maybe I am just misunderstanding them lol.

Firstly, I’m not saying VP isn’t nerfed. It is. Personally I think its just been blown way overboard. I use VP myself because I rarely use spectrals.

In that list you posted earlier, most of the traits can reach their full capacity without VP, and that’s not even considering all the OTHER traits that they synergize with.

IMHO, in a spvp scenario, the VP nerf hurts most in a 1v1 scenario, where the incoming damage is more spread out over time. If you were getting focused by 2 or 3 people, the damage would deplete shroud dramatically for VP’s decay to be negligible.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Since beta. Also got to high platinum.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Here is a list posted by another player:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They nerfed the following traits by up to 50% indirectly:

Repears might
Rending shroud
Signets of suffering
Armored shroud
Shrouded removal
Deadly Strength
Unholy Sanctuary
Unholy Martyr
Unyielding blast
Death perception
Dhuumfire
Relentless Pursuit
Blighters boon

add speed of shadows

That isn’t entirely correct. For instance, you don’t need 50 seconds of shroud to get 25 might with reapers might, you only need just under 20, talking reaper btw. Which would still be an impractical thing to do.

???

You can still use reapers might to its full affect without VP. It takes a reaper less than 20 seconds to do 25 autoattcks in RS.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Its not about camping, its about proper rotations. The nerf on vital persistence ruined the synergy with a lot of traits therefore delivering a big hit on a lot of builds. VP is also necessary to keep up with the current meta.

Are you talking about Speed of Shadows? Because I can agree on that.

What kind of synergy and rotation are you talking about in terms of VP? Its not like with VP you’d wait out the CD on a RS4 to use RS4 again.

Speed of shadows is one of those traits, there are a lot more, someone actually posted them in another thread.

Shroud is used both offensively and defensively, you do not simply use it to attack. You can use it as a second health bar to sustain through damage. VP allowed necromancers extra time in shroud to survive. Unfortunately conditions shred life force very fast, and condition spam is the meta and is not changing so this will hurt necromancers even more.

The shroud mechanic is the main reason why necromancer lack proper survival skills that other classes have like escapes, stun breaks, stability etc.

You actually have more LF now to soak the condition damage, which doesn’t occur in flat percentages. Over time, yes you lose 25 seconds worth, but unless you’re sticking around doing nothing you still have ample time to deal with the conditions, which again, you should be dealing with out of shroud.

Ok..I am not even sure how to respond to that…

I’m saying that VP is bad of you camp shroud, which is inherently a bad thing to do. You have more options outside of shroud, which when utilised properly is not completely affected by the VP nerf.

SoS is more harmful in the grand scheme of things. But it does open a door for better mobility.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Here is a list posted by another player:

Lordrosicky.5813:

They nerfed the following traits by up to 50% indirectly:

Repears might
Rending shroud
Signets of suffering
Armored shroud
Shrouded removal
Deadly Strength
Unholy Sanctuary
Unholy Martyr
Unyielding blast
Death perception
Dhuumfire
Relentless Pursuit
Blighters boon

add speed of shadows

That isn’t entirely correct. For instance, you don’t need 50 seconds of shroud to get 25 might with reapers might, you only need just under 20, talking reaper btw. Which would still be an impractical thing to do.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Its not about camping, its about proper rotations. The nerf on vital persistence ruined the synergy with a lot of traits therefore delivering a big hit on a lot of builds. VP is also necessary to keep up with the current meta.

Are you talking about Speed of Shadows? Because I can agree on that.

What kind of synergy and rotation are you talking about in terms of VP? Its not like with VP you’d wait out the CD on a RS4 to use RS4 again.

Speed of shadows is one of those traits, there are a lot more, someone actually posted them in another thread.

Shroud is used both offensively and defensively, you do not simply use it to attack. You can use it as a second health bar to sustain through damage. VP allowed necromancers extra time in shroud to survive. Unfortunately conditions shred life force very fast, and condition spam is the meta and is not changing so this will hurt necromancers even more.

The shroud mechanic is the main reason why necromancer lack proper survival skills that other classes have like escapes, stun breaks, stability etc.

You actually have more LF now to soak the condition damage, which doesn’t occur in flat percentages. Over time, yes you lose 25 seconds worth, but unless you’re sticking around doing nothing you still have ample time to deal with the conditions, which again, you should be dealing with out of shroud.

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Its not about camping, its about proper rotations. The nerf on vital persistence ruined the synergy with a lot of traits therefore delivering a big hit on a lot of builds. VP is also necessary to keep up with the current meta.

Are you talking about Speed of Shadows? Because I can agree on that.

What kind of synergy and rotation are you talking about in terms of VP? Its not like with the old VP you’d wait out the CD on a RS4 to use RS4 again.

Even in raids, the QT benchmarks exit shroud the moment their RS4 finishes, iirc. If you’re getting hammered in PvP, VP won’t matter, and if you aren’t getting hammered you shouldn’t be camping shroud anyways.

(edited by Ramoth.9064)

Does everyone here camp shroud or something?

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Yeah sure, there’s barely a silver lining to VP getting nerfed, but even without it, at over 50%, its enough to pull off an RS4, RS5 and a couple auto chains of RS1 for good measure.

I’m talking PvP of course. You can still sponge burst attacks with shroud, even more than before if you pick up the new VP.

Its really not the end of the world.

Unless you are camping shroud of course, in which case LOL.

Vital Persistence nerf

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

WoW, Anet you really screwed up this one didn’t you, Like 5 seconds of shroud IF it doesn’t get ripped right away. Please explain to me how in WvW Necros get stabs now, and as a power necro why would you take my DPS state away?!?! Whoever thought of this needs to be fired right away, because clearly, THEY’RE STUPID!

It’s 4% per second…

In 5 seconds you’ve only lost 20%

That’s assuming you don’t use any skills or take any damage.

It doesn’t make what she said any less false. Unless she actually only had 20% to start with.

Vital Persistence nerf

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

WoW, Anet you really screwed up this one didn’t you, Like 5 seconds of shroud IF it doesn’t get ripped right away. Please explain to me how in WvW Necros get stabs now, and as a power necro why would you take my DPS state away?!?! Whoever thought of this needs to be fired right away, because clearly, THEY’RE STUPID!

It’s 4% per second…

In 5 seconds you’ve only lost 20%

The New Spectral Grasp

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Can’t we please just have Spectral Grasp as a clone of GS5?

Did they buff harvesting Revs?

in Revenant

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Topic

Necro Balance Patch Review

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

the unique enchantment thing on spectral walk is the spectral walk ‘effect’ icon, its been removed, because spectral armor doesn’t use one either.

RIP Signets and Crit Strikes

in Thief

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

I’m feeling a D/P critical strikes, shadow arts, VALKYRIE daredevil. Who’s with me?

(edited by Ramoth.9064)

Massive Warrior NERF!!!!

in Warrior

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

lol deserved.

Easy mode raids

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Holy crap this topic is still going?

WP going through Scourge

in Necromancer

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

I think the scourge will be pretty good at zone control. The whole point is to kite I guess. Cripple is fairly useless in pvp though.

Does reporting toxic behaviour do anything?

in PvP

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Only if its on the GW2 forums.

The Daily DDOS has started.

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

What in the ####ing #### has ANet done to deserve these attacks? This is so not cool on so many levels. I can think of a gazillion other companies that are more deserving of this than them.

Er, I can leave a long list of reasons, would probably get infracted though.

possibly a horrible idea

in PvP

Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

Its in my signature, the way to make conquest better is 4v4. Can I have an amen?