Anet fixing this situation is an admission of the mistake that was made here; like I already pointed out to you, these situations are typically the result of the developer creating the situation so there is no way for Anet to avoid that admission.
You simply don’t like the fact that they correctly identify players for abusing it and sending a warning. It’s the player’s risk to ignore this warning. Presenting irrelevant, alternative exploitable situations would be considered rather weak evidence to justify exploiting, but that’s just me I guess.
That really is just you, because every other person identifies that as the proper way to present an argument. The fact that you label relevant evidence as irrelevant, then finish off with ‘Arenanet can do whatever they like’ is deflection.
No. They could’ve admitted they made a mistake by saying ‘we neglected to update this skill after changes to deathly chill was made, .’. this item is locked for the time being’. That’s how you admit a mistake.
Ghost thief changes and frostgun changes are the ideal comparison scenarios, both scenarios involve players using skills that have not mechanically faulted, but the synergy in the context they reside in produced an unintended effect. Yet one is labelled as an exploit and one is not, and you have failed to answer that.
Anet fixing this situation is an admission of the mistake that was made here. You simply don’t like the fact that they correctly identify players for abusing it and sending a warning.
So by your standards, if you screwed something up, went to fix it and blamed your co-worker, you still call that ‘admitting it was your mistake’? Doesn’t sound right.
Anet handles these situations how they see fit. Just because you might not agree with them doesn’t give you license to abuse other exploits … and you shouldn’t be giving anyone the idea that it does. The risk is with players, not Anet.
LOL. I’ll take that as an indication you’ve given up, if you’re going to wave the ‘Arenanet can do whatever they want’ flag. You know what kills games? Bad developers who have no consistency. You know what also kills games? Blaming the playerbase that feeds you.
You sure leaped from ‘being consistent with reprimands’ to ‘giving others license to exploit’ quick though. I’ve advocated nothing of the sort, only for Arenanet to own up to their mistakes.
You really should learn what deflection is though. Me answering your argument then presenting evidence that furthers my point is not deflection.
Anet is not exercising any shade of grey here; it’s a clear abuse of the gun with a specific trait and they have made a post indicating it’s being addressed as such. Whether ghost thief is an exploit or not has no bearing on this discussion. None. The idea that Anet should turn a blind eye or take it easy on players because ‘other maybe exploits’ is absolutely ridiculous.
That’s the freaking point. They DID turn a blind eye to ghost thief exploiters. It has EVERY bearing on the same discussion. Exploits have different levels of severity, and they exercise their understanding of this notion daily. Just because you say none doesn’t make it fact. Its the same scenario, an ‘exploit’ was used, one was labelled as such, the other wasn’t.
Lol, you don’t think ghost thieving was an exploit, but somehow overpowered synergy is?
So you’re obfuscating the discussion with what you consider is another exploit in the game, just to shrug off the responsibility and consequence of using exploits?
That’s sure is some bewildering logic you got there, but I’m doubtful that’s an effective way to think. The fact remains that people that exploit are responsible for their own actions, regardless of how many situations exist in the game that can be exploited; it’s in fact quite irrelevant, so I see nothing about the ghost theif that relates to what we are discussing here. I think it’s safe to say that we have to work on the premise that people can act in a mature and responsible manner when dealing with these serious situations. If not, then it’s simply not in the interest of the good of the players; a selfish attempt to justify questionable actions.
I’m obfuscating nothing. This is the THIRD time I’ve said I don’t agree with you.
I am responding to your inability to see that Arenanet exercises in many shades of grey already. If you are happy to have Arenanet paint everyone who uses the frostgun as an exploiter, then you must argue that they should’ve done so with the ghost thief, which was an exploit on a much larger scale with much larger repercussions. Yet, they did not. How is that for the lack of black and white?
Oh and your attempts to be patronizing is noted. Keyword is attempt though.
Have i not made myself more clear? Your arguments do not sway me and theres nothing left for me and you to discuss. No I do not think arenanet should point at their own players and call them exploiters. And yes, in my opinion there is plenty of grey area because otherwise every ghost thief should be banned if your rationale applies.
Why didnt gaile come out and say the thief traps were exploits? Is it plausible that a thief can remain stealthed and do 0-100? hp over and over again?
To be fair, I think how they have handled this ‘victimless’ exploit is perfectly reasonable. Handling it with more levity would have simply made it seem like they don’t take these things seriously, which would have been a much worse move than whatever lack of PR you think exists.
Frankly, there IS no PR when dealing with these things, other than to be honest with players. If Anet’s goal was to make players exploiting feel like they will be ‘OK’, that’s the wrong message. The message here should (and does feel like)
“You were exploiting” Nothing more needs to be said. We are adults here; we know the risks for that. Time to take some responsibility here.
Nope. Dont agree. Not going to rehash the same things again. You’re free to keep your opinion, I certainly don’t see Arenanet in the same light.
Fair enough but no, I think I will exercise the right to express my opinion, as I believe it’s important to understand why this can’t just be treated as lightheartedly as you felt it should have been.
I know that it’s hard to understand it but the idea that Anet should give exploiting players a warm fuzzy feeling that it was OK isn’t the correct approach here; handling exploits is done with a serious approach. Nothing kills a game faster than developers giving the impression that they aren’t serious about players exploiting the game. No rehash needed; any reasonable player knows the deal; most people doing this should be thankful the repercussions were not more severe if we are being honest and mature in this discussion.
You’re not bringing anything new to this discussion. I already said, I don’t agree. It’s been Arenanets track record for simply just blaming their playerbase.
Was the frostgun effect OP? Yeah I can agree with that. Its still their oversight, and if there is anything that kills a game fast its giving the image that the devs themselves dont know how to have fun. And they are doing that superbly. Look at the reddit version of this topic, look at how negative the remarks are. Not becauae the gun got blocked, but no one has any confidence that arenanet will fix it correctly.
Actually its a pretty hilarious non-MM necro killer build with pul impact. headshots, distracting daggers, headshot again. hilarious at silver/bronze
I think the point is if you can land 4 ints with Head Shot, you don’t need three more. Besides a player can take Bandit’s Defense and get one of those interrupts with a 2s knockdown along with a stun break and a block mechanic.
Basically either Headshot gets the job done or a player is fighting a build where Interrupts are difficult to land (evasion builds, perma-stab, high stealth). Adding more interrupts as opposed to more utility is almost suicidal.
Hilarious builds are supposed to be just that, hilarious, nothing more. Though if we are beig serious its probably for D/D builds.
To be fair, I think how they have handled this ‘victimless’ exploit is perfectly reasonable. Handling it with more levity would have simply made it seem like they don’t take these things seriously, which would have been a much worse move than whatever lack of PR you think exists.
Frankly, there IS no PR when dealing with these things, other than to be honest with players. If Anet’s goal was to make players exploiting feel like they will be ‘OK’, that’s the wrong message. The message here should (and does feel like)
“You were exploiting” Nothing more needs to be said. We are adults here; we know the risks for that. Time to take some responsibility here.
Nope. Dont agree. Not going to rehash the same things again. You’re free to keep your opinion, I certainly don’t see Arenanet in the same light.
For an issue so victimless they could have definitely dealt with it with more levity. In the end its their loss. Look how well Gaile’s PR over at the WvW forum is. For someone in her role she certainly doesn’t (ill stop here).
@obtena. Are you really suggesting a but of humility from Arenanet is so detrimental? Or from Gaile even? Its an honest mistake, I know its OP. Somehow its all our fault.
Someone posted on reddit how you can equip the SAB boombox to instant kill your minions. God what an exploit.
She easily could have said the skill needed an update. Its the underlying principle of Anet, they kitten up, its our fault. When they discontinued legendary journeys MO said he took issue with people saying they shipped half an expansion. Again, our fault.
An in case you didnt read the topic developed into Justine saying necros using chill effects to proc DC is pretty much doing the same thing.
1. Spiteful renewal. Too useless.
2. Beyond the veil. Annoys me that it doesnt give protection to allies.
3. Mark of evasion. So many other nice skills to cast for free yet they chose this one
I don’t get your point. The combination did more damage than was obviously intended, so Anet changed it. Your tone indicates you find this unreasonable. I can’t imagine why. I don’t think I’m alone.
Wow. Did i not say i dont care about the frost gun change. It was what justine said afterwards, that necros taking chill skills to proc deathly chill is equally as broken as frost gun. kittening comprehension please.
You don’t care? maybe I’m wrong but … you started the thread? So you started the thread about something you don’t care about? Yes, you will have to excuse me if my comprehension is lacking here because I don’t comprehend the fact that you would start a thread about something you don’t care about that is getting fixed as well as the fact that you seem to want to argue with people, again about something you are telling me you don’t care about …
Maybe you can clarify what you DO care about as you obviously continue to ‘discuss’ the change?
Yeah, i cared that gaile grey called people exploiters. Functionality gone? Dont care. Said it above. Few times. I havent even used it.
I don’t get your point. The combination did more damage than was obviously intended, so Anet changed it. Your tone indicates you find this unreasonable. I can’t imagine why. I don’t think I’m alone.
Wow. Did i not say i dont care about the frost gun change. It was what justine said afterwards, that necros taking chill skills to proc deathly chill is equally as broken as frost gun. kittening comprehension please.
Then every freaking environmental object that does bleed, poison, any condition that can be buffed from a trait is an exploit.
Its kittening called synergy. It was this thing they had i GW1. Not carebears2
No they aren’t, because they could have different parameters limiting their application. Obviously, Frost gun didn’t, hence the nerf. Frankly, I think anyone complaining about this fix cares little for the game and how unintended play affects it. I would be careful here.
I said above i dont care about the frost gun, but im also responding to the argument that necros taking chill skills = exploiting deathly chill is hilarious.
I mean if you cannot understand that frostgun is obviously exploited because it spams chill and deathly chill trait has no gate, how can I even simplify it more for anyone to understand.
Oh you’re understood just fine, you’re just wrong though. It’s also noted you’re making snide remarks because you have no answer for the elementalist and ranger examples I listed above because you’re doing your usual barking up a tree, and no one agrees.
Which funny enough should classify the current deathly chill wvw reapers the same with things like frost aura, frost whirling bolts, hydromancy sigil and so on.
Dude are you seriously trying to argue that Freezing Bolts and Frost Aura is a exploit?
Do you really think it was a accident that Reaper’s Shroud has it’s own ice field, whirl finisher, and leap finisher?
Of course not. I think the trait becomes exploited when people are taking any and all chills not for the chill, but strictly for bleed stacking.
Barbed aura, upto once per second per foe, when struck you place a stacking dot of 500 for 10sec. Barbed aura lasts 5 sec. Enemies also have reduced movement speed and skill recharge. Allied shared frost auras also apply barbed aura to you.
I mean lol…You don’t think there might be other reasons besides defensive support that auramancers and reapers are running strong together atm?
It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how fast and easy this trait will runaway effect. So fast and easy a simple pve toy can go from like 0k dps to 20k dps.
Another broken trait is probably permeating wrath. Get a burn guard and put a wall of reflection between two pewpewing zergs and watch your monitor start on fire.
Deathly chill and permeating wrath are two traits that are poorly designed and destined to be exploited.
As far as I’m willing to agree with you on frost gun issue, I can’t take you seriously after your justification of why deathly chill and using……chills, are an exploit. What about fire elementalists spamming fire spells for might? Remorseless rangers taking that rune that gives fury for extra fury procs. Taking crap pets for more fury procs? OMG. EXPLOIT.
I’m in the same boat as you but I found myself enjoying WvW, at least moderately. The dailies for WvW could get some adjusting though, to aid those who completely hate it.
I don’t mind the trait itself. The frost gun ‘exploit’ sounded fun but I never bothered to procure it myself. My issues is the fact they call it an exploit pretty much brushes everyone who used it as ‘someone who exploited the system’ which is frankly not true at all.
For once, it’d be nice if Arenanet actually just said ‘times have changed, this item became to OP’.
And if you get caught out you get killed and lose your caps too. Like I said, I don’t know who you are, but people with years of experience tell me CLOSE-MID is the only viable strat, so I will trust them.
On top of that, I have won by 200 points each time when people actually stayed CLOSE-MID, and I have not lost a single game.
You know what, I aleady know ArenaNet won’t fix this, or teach people how to PvP in a week. I’m uninstalling and this is my last post, I won’t bother with a bad PvP system. BB
Im not sure what you are saying.
Because literally the 1-1-3 push was the split among any teams for TOL and ESL leagues for years among the best players.
Also my Guild team use to do the 1-3-1 push with our best 1 vs 1 player going home. Our thief to pester far and power necro mid with a shout guardian and shout warrior.
I finished i believe at 1719 or 1704 last season but the close-mid thing is meaningless.
You want to hold 2 cap points period. If the other team has 2 players you can not beat in team fights against. It be better to cross push where they are not at. Also you should be fighting on the roads. If you can catch players running to a point you can pinch players sitting on nodes.
I dont understand that tunnel vision logic.
Argh ive been trying to explain this to people for the longest time. Fight on point, yes, sometimes if the fight has moved there. Otherwise, you float between the two points you control and intercept.
I think they arent unlocked if you dont have HOT. Either that or theres a tab that sells non hot stat trinkets. Theres something about that on wiki i think
A 4v4 on foefire is pretty much an idiotic coinflip anyways. No pro out there can tell you with certainty they’d win mid 4v4 unless they were up against 4 thieves.
I love going far with a nuisance decap warrior on foefire. Its got enough sustain to hold out a 2v1 for a while and can even quickly decap even if the enemy tries to bunker down. If i can win, great, if i die to 2v1 but force a long period of decap, im still winning resource wise and only for 5 score.
And sure at platinum, where ideally everyone understands meta and rotations it is a game of mechanics and combat. But i find at silver and gold you are challenging the oppositions teamwork and lack of understanding.
You’d be hard pressed to take mid foefire if your team composition is bad on that large point. 3/2 split actually makes for 2 2v2 situations on home and far which are much more doable and you can ninja mid if they leave it.
Theres no hard points to capture in pvp, only points with more or less people. If yoi made the enemies home point uncapped for the duration of a drawn out 3v4 at mid, even if you fail to win far you are still 1 node ahead.
But if two people went far then thats 2 people who dont agree with you, 1 person. Who died and made you team leader? Home + far is valid on some maps, and some team compositions. I recently won a game going home + far because we understood its better than conventional home + mid.
I completely agree with you on this point. However when other MMORPGs do Questing, Story, and Graphics better then you. That’s when you have a issue.
I don’t think any other MMO does any of those things better than GW2 does. Especially graphics, but as those are basically irrelevant to my generation of gamers anyway. I still play a game that was published in 2001, and it’s still one of my favorite games. But that is just my opinion.
From my experiences as MMOs goes. GW2 is top noch for Story.
Outside of that it is pretty sub-par in most other categories.
- Graphics goes to ESO Eve Online, and BDO.
- Endgame content goes to WoW and ESO.
- Meaningful character progression goes to all other MMORPGs.
- PvP goes to Blade and Soul, and Eve Online.
- ESO’s quests are much better made then GW2’s.
- Combat system imo is pretty much a tie between GW2, BnS, BDO, and ESO. ESO, BnS, and BDO have a more skill based combat system. GW2 has a more casual combat system.
- Class balance goes to ESO and BnS. Tho ESO and BnS is balanced every 3 or so months. Their balance teams actually listens and partake in a way more active role with their game’s playerbase. Hence why every class in those two games are viable in all of the game modes.
- Build variety goes to ESO and Eve Online. The viable builds for PvP in those two games are immense. We have META and anti-META. Build variety in these two games are pretty much null due to the nature of NPCs. And the fact that these two games are only being balanced around PvP. Yes sometimes PvE suffers but instead of just lazly add power creep to the classes, they take a different approach and nerf the PvE content instead. PvP suffers nothing, from PvE content.
- Long term excitement goes to ESO, Eve Online, and BnS.
Again these are my views. You are welcome to have different views. But the fact that you said GW2 does graphics the best alone. Just tells me you didn’t actually play many other MMOs or GW2 is your first and only MMO you played.
You have got to be kidding me. GW2’s story is kittening terrible, is like written by an elementary schooler.
Lich Form : Using this skill against HoT Elite Specs is like putting yourself at a disadvantage. I got completely boned by a daredevil using staff autoattack.
How anyone can find something lacking in this skill is beyond me.
ACTUALLY I can, the pathing sucks. I love this skill to bits in its current iteration and I don’t think it needs to break immob. BUT THE PATHING SUCKS.
