Guild Wars 2

Unfortunately no, they all did not get their refund, some of which (I’m guessing a large portion) are probably still unaware that they have been duped.

They are also only covering the last 30 days, what about the people that bought it prior to that ? Those FAQ’s have been around for far longer than 30 days.

white knight
noun
a person or thing that comes to someone’s aid.
a person or company making an acceptable counteroffer for a company facing a hostile takeover bid.

The second part may not apply because I’m not aware of any hostile takeovers, but you are coming to the aid of Anet are you not ?

Giving new players the core copy was a smart move, but they should have been forth coming about it to prevent the previous sales. It also wouldn’t have hurt them to show some compassion to their long term players.

I said it before, we are not entitled but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have showed compassion to their vets. This expansion … it wouldn’t be happening without people like you, me, and all the other long time players regardless of which stance we are each taking on this.

They knew this, they practiced this in GW1, and while this is not GW1 you would think they would have taken some of the successful practices with them into GW2.

NTDK.4897:

InfinitytheSoulWarden.5963:

its one map, guild halls, and a few new mechanics…. its not huge

one map? sureeeee. keep believing it. Good for you that you have already played HoT ahead of us.

and +1 to OP.

I’m quite annoyed that these $50 threads overshadowed the current spot light of this week: Guild Hall.

The annoyance could have not only been stopped, it could have been prevented over 24 hours ago. This is a direct result of a community outcry and having it completely ignored.

This should have been an exciting moment in GW2 history, its going to be memorable, but for all the wrong reasons because of the lack of communication.

I am far from closed minded, I understand why some people are not upset, I don’t agree but I understand. Just as I understand why people are upset (multiple reasons) and agree with some, not all.

I unlike you have stated several times each and everyone of us have the right to believe what we like, we have the right to our opinions. I also unlike yourself have not tried to shove my opinion down peoples throats, I have disagreed and explained my reasoning, I have even corrected people on both sides of the fence when they are using misinformation.

There is a very large difference, I am standing up for my morals, you seem to be just outright trying to shoot down anyone who has a different opinion.

Tell me am I wrong ? have you been a little over zealous with your opinion and how others should feel ? You have the right to disagree with people, you don’t have the right to try and tell them what to feel or think.

Sinope.5630:

I think, they see this one and it explains everything:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZspKoupWAY

It’s been done already.

briggah.7910:

InfinitytheSoulWarden.5963:

briggah.7910:

Channel.9402:

It’ll be a joke of the industry if this pre purchase cos them a huge loss of playerbase^^

Won’t be much a joke when the player base rises from all the new players that received a free copy of the core game ^^

They will lose there title of having the friendliest players, all that will be left are bitter arrogant people who can afford to take care of themselves and not worry about others.

while all the people are out patting themselves on the back for buying the $100 per purchase.
we are here trying to fight for justice and make this a fair deal for everyone and so everyone can enjoy the game.

I’m pretty sure the friendly players are the ones buying it and will be sticking around. If anything they will be losing a bunch closed minded angry players and I’m fine with that.

Maybe then I can enjoy PVP more

You probably shouldn’t use the term “closed minded” it pretty much sums up everyone of your posts today.

You’re entitled to your opinion and all but you not exactly being open minded yourself.

Ok I will believe what I like, do us all a favor though please ? Stop posting.

briggah.7910:

Can someone dig up a video or official post from Anet where they actually say “I promise this” or “I promise that”

I’m not sure they ever “promised” anything, I’m thinking they said things and people took those are promises. People change their minds all the time. Some things have to change to get better.

If they didn’t do a pinky swear with you personally I wouldn’t take it as a promise.

So you would be perfectly fine if say you purchase the xpac and a month down the road they “change their mind” and decide they aren’t going to release it ? Here’s the kicker, no refunds, after all people change their minds all the time right ?

I would say its the moral standpoint, $50 is whatever, I don’t think its currently worth $50 but for myself it’s not about the money.

It’s about the money grab, the shady bait and switch, a company that used to value their customers once upon a time.

InfinitytheSoulWarden.5963:

I cant see why anyone is happy because when you pre order the game, you have to start a new account to play the dlc. so you are not a veteran anymore hence your statement is invalid!

This is 100% inaccurate, if you want to make a valid argument maybe you should listen to those of us who are trying to explain it to you.

For the record, I am not here to defend Anet but throwing out random garbage because you obviously didn’t understand what was explained in the other thread is not going to help those of us that have been fighting this fight for over 24 hours now.

You want to be mad, be mad, but be accurately mad.

Nike.2631:

Blackworm.2167

Something I paid $50 (as everyone else should have to, as per the FAQ) for, with $50 worth of content, has been devalued to $0.
And as you said, the emotional value is separate from the monetary value.
I would like a monetary return.

The base game been devalued to $20 starting almost 2 years ago and to $10 for the last 5 months.

“Free” (with your $50 purchase!!) is the magic moment were rage takes over?

It is not free, you have to spend money to get it, just because you are being told that that part of the package is free doesn’t make it true. As long as it is attached to anything that causes a person to spend money it is not free.

Being listed in a shop as a free download then charging $50 for the xpac without it attached to it would make it free, but its not, because it is rolled into the cost otherwise it would simply be a free download separated from the bundle.

Are people really this naive ?

InfinitytheSoulWarden.5963:

briggah.7910:

Channel.9402:

It’ll be a joke of the industry if this pre purchase cos them a huge loss of playerbase^^

Won’t be much a joke when the player base rises from all the new players that received a free copy of the core game ^^

They will lose there title of having the friendliest players, all that will be left are bitter arrogant people who can afford to take care of themselves and not worry about others.

while all the people are out patting themselves on the back for buying the $100 per purchase.
we are here trying to fight for justice and make this a fair deal for everyone and so everyone can enjoy the game.

As annoying as the white knights are, they are still entitled to their opinion, it’s when they try and cram it down your throat that they need to be in check. Just as we are entitled to ours (that many of them and us for that matter seem to forget).

Warranted, unwarranted, delusional, sane, it doesn’t matter. We are all entitled to feel “ripped off” or “100% satisfied” but in the end there is still a fire spreading that no one seems to be trying to put out.

Well if you consult the FAQ’s you might get an answer, however be advised that may change at any given time to reflect a different answer depending on whether or not they may profit from said answer.

On second thought, better off ignoring all their FAQ’s from this point on.

The real answer is, when they are done driving the “hype train” through your entire rectum.

Welcome to lawlsville, population … us.

ImTasty.2163:

Random.4691:

ImTasty.2163:

RabbitUp.8294:

ImTasty.2163:

Wait I’m at a bit lost here. How did anet lie?

I’m still lost. What’s the lie?

If you can’t see it, there really is no point in explaining it.

Seriously? I just asked to explain the lie and you just post a picture. The picture has 2 identical statements, that you need the core game to play HoT. The only difference is it was changed to state that HoT also comes with the core game. The answer to the question “Do I need to own guild wars 2 to play the expansion” is still the same. That’s why I’m saying I don’t see the lie. The answer is still the same.

Exactly why there is no point in explaining it, you have paid so much attention to it that you’re under the impression that I posted the screen shot.

You also clearly have the blinders on so why waste my time ?

I do have a bridge for sale if you’re interested though.

Rhonin Greymane.8752:

A simple point people don’t seem to understand is that the core game inclusion isn’t influencing the price in any way… it’s just something they threw in so new players that missed the previous sales aren’t stuck behind a huge paywall. They just got lucky to get the game at a lower price than others(free of charge in this case) the same way people got it for 75% less during the recent sales but nobody raised any pitchforks then even though they should have, according to the logic the complaining follows. The expansion itself costs 50$, you’d be paying that regardless of core game inclusion. Nobody is forcing you to pay extra for something you already have. Think of it as a 100% discount product you don’t have to put in your basket separately.
As for the pricing itself, $40 to $50 is just standard pricing for MMO expansions. And saying there’s not enough content to justify the price isn’t valid because we don’t know how much content there actually is. Which is where the magic of pre-purchasing kicks in… you don’t have to buy it now if you don’t feel you know enough. Pre-purchasing is an optional gesture of faith from the consumers. The game didn’t release yet. Anet isn’t demanding that we pay for the game now and then releasing it in a week or two from now. The game is several months from being ready. In fact, Anet isn’t demanding anything and people are hatemongering for no real reason. The game isn’t going live with just the things that were revealed up until now, and I don’t know why people are acting like it is. There’s still months of reveals ahead of us. Just stop with the pointless, and frankly baseless anger and hatred.

That is what they are telling you and your buying into it. They have people that crunch numbers, that is their job, you can sure as heck bet your butt that they took into account the value of the core game and added it to the price tag. It would be idiotic for them to not do this. It helps them justify the $50 price tag even if they tell you it doesn’t.

Like I have said before, if you buy a meal from McDonalds they may tell you the fries are basically free but in actuality they have taken into consideration the value of each part of that meal, right down to the paper wrap around the straw.

ImTasty.2163:

RabbitUp.8294:

ImTasty.2163:

Wait I’m at a bit lost here. How did anet lie?

I’m still lost. What’s the lie?

If you can’t see it, there really is no point in explaining it.

I also have played since GW1 beta, I played all the way through to GW2 beta and continued my journey here.

The sad part is, back then, they wouldn’t have batted an eye at a character slot because it really does make sense, new character, new slot. They wouldn’t have (and didn’t) charge you extra, trying to nickle and dime us for every little thing.

The truth is, Anet has lost what it once was, yes they are a company and yes they need to make money but, they used to know where their money came from and that a happy customer was a paying customer.

Now it’s more about squeezing you for every cent they can get and throwing out content that makes them happy. Some of the content in the last couple years has been partial to what we have asked for but a lot of it is not. It’s like an ego maniac took the wheel, player concerns took a back seat to the all mighty dollar.

That is what is sad about all of this.

Believe it or not most of the people who are angry are angry because they also love this game. Many are passionate, they want to see Anet do right by us, we want to be able to say “Anet is a great company, you can trust them to deliver”. We want this expansion to be great, enjoyable, and keep the game healthy.

They have made it very hard. Morally I couldn’t tell anyone to trust them right now. I don’t trust them atm, I am not convinced that this expansion will be all they make it out to be. They have already been caught in a pretty hefty lie, whats to stop them from lying again to fill their pockets at our expense ?

The question you need to ask is, do you have to spend money in order to get a copy of the core GW2 at this very moment. The answer is yes, yes you do, therefore it is not free.

Think of it like this, if you go into McDonalds and buy a Big Mac Meal are the fries free ? Nope they are part of the price of the Meal “Bundle”.

His comments are not sincere, he is your stereotypical white knight. He loves this game therefore everyone must agree and love this game, all other are doomed to fail because he rides for Anet.

If he was sincere he would have simply said best of luck to you, enjoy your new game without the oh and BTW that game sucks, followed by insinuating he will be back.

The radical white knights are more toxic for this game then all the people voicing their concerns combined.

that would depend on the size of the single floor house, they can get pretty kitten big you know.

A map is a map, if you buy a house with 2 stories, it is still a house it does not magically become two house’s.

I hate to admit it but no we are not entitled, it is absurd if they don’t give us a character slot and not very good business practice but they do not have to do it.

We are entitled to feel slighted but at the end of the day your entitled to get what they have advertised if you have paid for it.

Again, I do not support not throwing in a little something for us vets and I think a character slot or the equivalent in gems is fair and a good idea to calm the masses and show they appreciate our loyalty.

We are entitled to close our wallets and walk away though.

Jski.6180:

Its free with the purchase of HoT. Did you buy HoT yes or no? If yes then you get ONE free copy (mostly to help get new ppl to play it) if no then you do not get it. Look at free shipping / handling with the purchase of a good dose this mean that its free to have you send any thing you want even if you did not buy the good that you must to get this “deal?”

Why do i get the feeling ppl are spending way too much time in the video game world and seemed to have caused them to lose all perception with real world economics.

You need to research the definition of free, if you cannot access/play/get something without spending money, it is no longer free.

It’s like saying the Revenant is free, your paying for the other parts of the game but not the Revenant.

When it shows up in the Gem Shop or on the web site shop with a price of $0.00 then it will be free.

Please just stop not being angry, it burns my retina’s.

See how that works ?

Windsagio.1340:

The joke to me is all these people that are filled with utter agony that someone gets a gift and they don’t.

Once again, it is not the gift, it is adding a class that most will be forced to spend extra to play, or forced to delete progression to play. It is the shady bait and switch with the FAQ’s. It is the complete lack of communication. It is all the misleading info such as the core game is now free (i don’t see it in the shop for $0.00 do you ?). It is the lack of information about what exactly we can expect for a minimum $50.

The gift for new players seems like a slap in the face but it really is not the core reason people are upset.

So it’s not free, and if you want to play GW2 (assuming you don’t already own it) you are now forced to buy the xpac.

So I guess that whole “The core game is free the $50 if for the xpax, you get the core game free when you buy the xpac” is blown out of the water. If I have to spend money in order to get the core game by very definition it is not free.

I knew it was only a matter of time.

For the love of god Anet, quit hiding and man/woman up.

SleepingDragon.1596:

Can the person at fault come out and take the pie?

A lot of unhappy fans are waiting…

That won’t happen, I’m sure it is safe to say it was not one individual, it could have been but I doubt it. It may also not have been intentional, it is entirely possible that the left hand forgot to tell the right hand. This does not excuse the silence or how it is NOT being handled. There should have been some form of communication the second all hell broke loose.

If they don’t know what happened by now, I’m sorry to say they have no business being in business.

I’m still kittened off and want an explanation but, you are correct. It is the company that is in the cross hairs, not the individuals.

One of the concerns is that NCsoft is actually the ones responsible for pushing for the money grab.

I’m not going to say it was them because we honestly do not know who exactly is at fault, but it would not surprise me to find out NCsoft was standing behind Anet pushing them forward.

Lethality.1732:

The expansion cost is $50. The GW2 vanilla client is free.

The issue with that is now unintentionally they have opened yet another can of worms.

For example, I want GW2 without HoT free of charge. I would like my free game now please. If I decide I like my new free game I might consider buying HoT. Why is my free game not available in the shop ? Why am I being forced to pay for HoT, I don’t remember ever having to buy an expansion. I would just like to play the good old content without concerning myself with the new stuff.

The hole their digging is going to continue to get deeper if the stay silent.

Terra.9506:

I don’t know for me only easiest way yo solve this is.

- Allow exist player to access all HoT feature when upgrade their game to Deluxe edition.

- All people who already have GW2 Deluxe edition or highter version deserve to unlock HoT expension for free.

- People who already have GW2 and already buy HoT should reward by Gem / Extra Slot…

That won’t happen, its also unrealistic. The are a company, they may be shady in the way everything went down but they still need to make money. I don’t think it is currently worth $50 let alone $100 but hoping for free is just not going to happen.

I’m no white night you can check my post history, I am as ticked off as the rest but we also have to be realistic.

While I am very displeased, I am also not so naive to assume that all anet employees must burn. I have stated my opinions in a few threads and its fair to say I’m am disgusted with this entire sham but, I also don’t think everyone at Anet is at fault and I do feel for those employees that are stuck in the middle because of the company they work for. So kitten show aside, I see nothing wrong with a little empathy for those who deserve it.

The point that some are not seeing is, giving new players a gift was not a knee jerk reaction. This would have been brought forward to the team, debated, a business plan created (Even small companies do this) and then a decision made. It is NOT a one day project, they knew they were going to do this, they chose to keep it quiet, and then quietly changed the FAQ’s.

The perception is what truly matters, had they came out and said “ok guys and gals, this is what we have decided, we are going to take measures to refund our previous sold copies and issue an apology because we truly feel this will help out our potential new players” people would have been unhappy and there still would have been an out cry for a character slot ect, but they would not look like common criminals.

They took the shady route, whether intentional or not doesn’t matter at this point because the perception is set that they went for the money grab.

There is nothing wrong with them trying to be nice and helping out the new guy, the way they went about it was amateur hour and had zero thought put into it.

How many times has the community been up in arms because Anet hides like children instead of confronting the issues at hand. We deserve answers, this isn’t high school, running away and hiding in hopes that it just goes away is what children do. I want a company that is forward and honest, even if I don’t like the answer at least it is an answer, the silent treatment does more harm than good and they STILL haven’t learned this lesson.

I’m currently on the fence, I have spent far to much money on this game as is and while I wouldn’t mind dropping more because I enjoyed it I’m wrestling with my morals on why they deserve it. I guess for me it will depend on their answers to the issues at hand, whether they start deleting posts and infracting/suspending people for having an opinion, if there is an apology, if they add the character slot, and lastly if they let us know what we are getting. No more beating around the bush and waiting a week for updates that are all “subject to change” I want to know what your asking me to pay for.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

Alexxander.8306:

Fraud is always news. The ICC is so specific to GW2 I wouldnt be able to explain it to someone that doesn’t play. Bait and switch is a timeless maneuver though. Anet went oldschool.

Really? “ANet sold unlimited access to repeated content, and then never (for over a year and a half and counting at least) repeated that content.”

It’s not difficult, and IMO is far more newsworthy than the current debacle. Much of a rip off as the packages are, at least customers know what they’re getting (unless they turn the Revenant class off altogether for a couple of years).

Really ? Please enlighten the rest of us as to what we are actually getting because that seems to be a pretty big question at this point in time.

rapthorne.7345:

The prepurchase bundle includes free access to the base game to new players.

No where does it state that this will be the case after prepurchases, and I believe the FAQ even specifies that this is a preorder-exclusive offer for new players.

Your assuming that the FAQ’s mean anything at this point. They could just change them tomorrow, or the next day. They have already changed it to suit their purpose, why wouldn’t they do it again ?

Jski.6180:

So i am going to link this its fun to play with but when you use it ask your self how much is it to make a game or expatiation now becuse this is just inflation only. I like to bring up the ideal of if needed goods and services go up in price then non-needed goods and services should go up too. Its nice to live in a dream world where prices never changes but they do and entertainment tends to changes much faster then needed items. I would not be shocked at one point we will see games nearing the 100$ ranges as they are now (system games).

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Really don’t need to play your game because you seem to be missing the point that most (not all) are making. It is not the $50 price tag, it is the lack of character slot for vets to play a Revenant, it is the void value of the core game, it is that we are essentially paying twice, and the fact that we are paying for content we have already played.

My beef is with the dishonesty regarding the FAQ’s more then anything, but the other points that other players are concerned about are also just as valid. What exactly are we getting ? the more I think about it it really doesn’t seem like all that much in comparison to other MMO xpacs, or even GW1 xpacs for that matter.

Then trying to throw in a hidden $10 value fee to buy a character slot so you can play part of the content your already paying for ? That is pretty slimy no matter how you try and cut it.

Considering we aren’t entirely sure what we are suppose to be getting if we do buy it, I don’t think anyone can say what we aren’t getting if we don’t.

With recent events maybe they will just take our money and send us screen shots of everything they had "planned " on putting into an xpac.

It should be interesting to say the least, Anet went for the money grab, I say let the journalists go for the money grab at Anets expense. I’m going to go ahead and predict Anet is not happy about it.

Coodles.6198:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Coodles.6198:

And for those that are saying they just recently bought the game and feel shafted now… If you already knew an expansion was coming out, surely you knew you were going to be paying for it?

They feel shafted because the wording of the original FAQs page indicated the base game and HoT would be 2 separate purchases and it isn’t. It’s a one-time purchase for both games that the vast majority would have waited to buy together if they’d had any indication of that possibility at all.

Ok, that is a solid point. I had no idea about the FAQ issue. I’ve been wading through all the outcries and must have missed that.

I change my stance on people that recently purchased the game. That said, veterans of the game saying they feel shafted I just can’t wrap my mind around.

It’s not hard to wrap your mind around really, new player gets the game and the xpac with 5 open character slots and 2 bank tabs. With those 5 open character slots they can create the new class The Revenant. Vet player gets the xpac, already has 2 bank tabs so that’s void, has all the core game so that’s void, and has all their character slots full. So if they want to play the new class which is a pretty major selling point for many, they have to either delete a character they have put time, effort, possibly money into, or they can buy a new character slot for an additional fee.

This is not my issue, I have an extra slot available but I can certainly see why they are upset. If I didn’t already have a slot available, your darn right I would want that slot, because my xpac just jumped from $50 – $60 if I want to play the new class that is a feature of the xpac.

Nor am I, and to be perfectly honest I wouldn’t expect them to answer each and everyone of these posts, that would be a full time job for someone and would probably have a breakdown within 24 hours.

They should however have made a sticky addressing the issue, people aren’t going to calm down over time, it is going to fester and tomorrow is a whole new day of people that have had time to think about how angry they are.

I do not envy whom ever they direct to address the community when they decide to actually address the community.

I guess the bright side is they don’t have to do it face to face, that would probably put some poor employee into an institution while the true culprits sat back behind locked doors.

Mooncaller.9634:

And I therefore how how much less of a PR “kitten” storm for existing players this would have been, well, and maybe potential players, because this seems to not be trending well on Reddit either.

This is going to be one heck of a hurdle they need to clear, they let the wound fester and did nothing about it, it has spread like wild fire. By tomorrow I wouldn’t be surprised to see negative reviews plastered all over the place. If this was truly a miscommunication/accident/misunderstanding/callitwhatever they should have addressed it right away with the community. They still would have received backlash but they could have saved face. This is a hard lesson to learn about how things can go from “yay a happy announcement” to “oh snap we are knee deep in poop” and hoping it will just go away. Maybe Anet will finally understand that communication really is key when dealing with consumers.

The majority of this could have been easily avoided.

Nike.2631:

Random.4691:

I also run my own business…

One probably so big you do your own bookkeeping, I’m guessing. Which would be pretty much an entirely separate universe from a corporation. Treasure your business’s agility, but don’t fool yourself into thinking that’s how an organization turning 8 digits of revenue a quarter does things.

Which makes them more liable, they should have better measures to prevent issues such as this. Who do you think will get smeered all over the front page first McDonalds servering coffee that is to hot, or the mom and pop shop that is serving coffee that is to hot.

The larger the business the higher the expectations. Right, wrong or indifferent the size of the company really doesn’t matter even if what I said above is true, we owe it to our consumers to uphold our obligations to them, morally and legally.

So again, you continue upholding your beliefs, they are yours and if that is how you feel then it is your right to feel that way. I’ll continue upholding mine, which is my right.

@AlexanderFalkor.4765
In the end, its opinions and morals. You have yours and you feel its perfectly valid, and I’m sure for you it is valid. For others it is not valid and trying to convince them your right and they are wrong will work about as well as them convincing you they are right and you are wrong.

We as consumers/customers reserve the right to feel how we like about certain issues concerning the companies we deal with. We also reserve the right to voice our opinions just as you have the right to voice yours.

Some people are grasping at straws (some of your posts included) while others have very valid complaints and reasons to be upset. Just accept it and let them vent or take whatever course of action they deem fit.

You see, you just don’t get it. If you want to cherish Anet and preach the good word about them then do so, but do not expect others to buy into it. If you don’t believe or want to believe that they handle this in a way that looks pretty kitten shady then that is your right.
I am not so blind, I also run my own business, if something like this happened I would be all over it to put out the fire before it gets to big. They seem content letting it burn, you don’t wait 24 hours to address it, you put the fire out asap. If you don’t then it makes you look like you either simply don’t care about your consumers or your hiding something.

You can believe what you like, and I will believe what I like.

If it is a god honest mistake then they need to get their heads out of their butts and deal with it sooner rather then later. As you can see from these forums the fire is spreading, its all over several other forums now too. This is not the publicity they want, that saying about there is no such thing as bad publicity ? ya its BS.

Just bend over and relax your kitten, the Atrain will be gentle as it drives full steam ahead into your rectum.