Some of us aren’t “falling for it” we are compromising, also waiting for more info. However I support those of you that are still unhappy, keep fighting the good fight.
I’ll probably wait until the last possible minute just so I have a better idea of what exactly I’m buying and possible player feed back.
It’s better than a kick in the butt. Still waiting for clarity on whether or not July 31, 2015 is officially the end of pre-purchase though.
Ok so again because there is some confusion from people I have chatted with, is it safe to assume Pre-purchase is over July 31, 2015 ? The blog mentions that date a few times but doesn’t clarify if that is an official cut off date for Pre-Purchase.
Edits, my grammars are broken
I hope that all the media who jumped on the news last week will put this statement out too.
I’m sure they will. Many of us “complainers” and the media admitted they loved the game but had concerns. That doesn’t mean we want to watch the world burn.
So just to clarify, you have to Pre-Purchase to receive the character slot ? Or it will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion Pre-Purchase or not ?
Also I see July 31 mentioned a few times in the blob, is it safe to assume Pre-Purchase will end July 31, 2015 ?
Yes, the bonus character slot is only if you pre-purchase.
I’m thinking the July 31st date is only because it gives a realistic cut-off period to get everyone settled with refunds or whatever.
At the risk of being “that guy” I’m not sure if I’m happy about this or not. I’m happy they addressed us, and they took into account our loyalty but the question still remains, is the content worth $50. I would like the character slot, and I’m really not complaining, though it does come off that way but I personally would like more information about the expansion before I pay.
Would it be unreasonable to ask to extend this opportunity to say the end of August to allow for more information ?
So just to clarify, you have to Pre-Purchase to receive the character slot ? Or it will be available to everyone who purchases the expansion Pre-Purchase or not ?
Also I see July 31 mentioned a few times in the blog*, is it safe to assume Pre-Purchase will end July 31, 2015 ?
Most companies do not work like that, most companies have a business plan worked out so they can combat and avoid legal issues (not that I’m saying this was illegal, that’s for lawyers to decide). Keeping everyone you employ in the dark is probably one of the worst business practices you could be a part of.
I’m sorry you work for such a poorly handled company ?
One would think the company as a whole would be organized enough to communicate. The guy that changes the FAQ’s would have been directed to do so, I’m going to go out on a limb and say they don’t give the random guy that types FAQ’s free reign to do as he/she pleases.
I’d rather take my business else where, I’d personally rather pay full price for another expansion and a monthly fee just on principle. Thats just me, other are entitled to do as they wish.
Hey look I used the word entitled !
When it comes to directly affecting your consumers wallet, you don’t just “fix” the FAQ’s. There is a procedure you follow to make sure you’re not liable and you don’t enrage your customers. At least that is what smart business practice would dictate, maybe Anet truly just doesn’t give a rats kitten .
they don’t much care about the goodwill of the people as long as they keep buying stuff. which is what you did. so we have this situation here were folks are complaining but they still get the product. thus there is no need for change. in 2 weeks time everything will be forgotten.
it’s a shame really. instead of achieving a positive change for all of us, we’re rewarding them with a purchase and then come into the forums to complain. a shame really.
Well, I have been lurking this topic since the night the announcement dropped. Myself and my gf are waiting. We are not making gem purchases. We likely won’t even sign in tomorrow to get the update. We were devoted, gem store purchasers and players. We simply are not now. I believe it is safe to say there are a good percentage of folks just like us. So while ANet likely did make some pre-sales based on these pathetic bundle offers, they have also forced the hands of many folks like us. It will seriously effect their bottom line.
I agree with this stand, I have also have not logged in or purchased gems (Typically about an average of $40 a week, sometimes it $10 sometimes its considerably more). I have been more vocal though because that’s just me.
I don’t plan on spending another cent until I hear an explanation that I feel is sincere and fitting.
For the record to those whom will no doubt be invading this thread soon, I loved the game I was a loyal customer since GW1 Beta. I believe what they did was wrong but mistakes can and do happen. The silence on the other hand, for me is making them look guilty and that is entirely on them.
Do you hear that in the distance ?
That is the sound of the White Knight army coming to throw accusations at you for having an opinion. How dare you not agree with them !
God Wills It !
It’s not that they updated it, it’s that they did so in such a way that makes it look underhanded
Bull. There was nothing “underhanded” about it, they just updated their FAQ. What could possibly be “underhanded” about updating their FAQ when one of the entries became inaccurate?
A public announcement should have been issued,
Who makes a “public announcement” when they update their FAQ?
the core game should have been made unavailable (this one right here leads me to believe they simply didn’t care and wanted the money),
It apparently has been, so problem solved.
to even take it a step further they had the emails available of all those new purchases, they could have send out some mass emails to inform them that they would need to contact support for refunds if they so desired.
Maybe, but this is the sort of issue where if you aren’t bothered enough to notice yourself, then there’s no reason for you to be. Plenty of people bought the game and are perfectly content with the current situation.
I stopped reading after your first quote, even the majority of the fan bois/white knights have agreed that it was handled incorrectly. On another note I have this Bridge for sale .. are you interested ?
The very same meeting, based on the very same chain of thought, should have resulted in changes to the “free core for new players, nothing for vets” expansion bundle plan, simply because the FAQ change was a direct consequence of that decision. They couldn’t arrive at a decision that keeping the FAQ unchanged would be bad idea without also thinking that the bundle idea as it is isn’t exactly wise either.
Bull. Updating an incorrect FAQ entry is a minor correction, it has no real drawbacks and is easy to do. Changing the entire pricing model at this point would be a lot of work with a lot of downsides. They can’t just remove the “free core game” aspect from the HoT promotions, not now that they’ve already offered it. They can’t just drop the price of the Xpac either, because $50 is the price of the content inside. They could just bundle in more freebies, but again, that would have a significant cost to them, they can’t just shoot form the hip on that, so to say that “they should have just pulled a u-turn during the meeting where they updated the FAQ” is complete nonsense.
In doing new players a favor, veterans like myself get left behind. I do not approve of this.
You didn’t get left behind. You got everything you paid for, and more.
It’s not that they updated it, it’s that they did so in such a way that makes it look underhanded, intentional or not, they didn’t use their brains when going about this. A public announcement should have been issued, the core game should have been made unavailable (this one right here leads me to believe they simply didn’t care and wanted the money), to even take it a step further they had the emails available of all those new purchases, they could have send out some mass emails to inform them that they would need to contact support for refunds if they so desired. The lastone would have been a lot more work, I think a public announcement followed by taking the core game off their market would have sufficed.
Ya, I don’t know if I’m impressed, or if I just feel sorry for you. It’s you time and money but that is just a bit excessive imo.
why we need to sacrifice for the new players
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
Why do we need to sacrifice ? Why instead does Anet not have to make a compromise ?
I don’t want $50 worth of stuff. I don’t need financial parity to make up for the money I originally spent 2.5 years ago. I just want something —- anything, really — to recognize my role as a veteran player in helping make GW2 what it is today. A skin? A special mini? Hell, a $10 character slot? I don’t know. Just make a token effort to convince me that the last two-and-a-half years of my GW2 play hasn’t been a massive waste of time and money. Until Anet makes that token effort, I will not be purchasing HoT.
So you’re ok with everything they have done with sales prior to the pre purchase announcement ? You’re ok with the hidden extra fee for a character slot ? If you honestly believe for a second that Anet is not aware that the majority of vets don’t have a character slot available then you’re pretty gullible. They are counting on that extra $10 for the character slot from their vets, they know the majority of us do not have a slot available and will be forced to buy the more expensive bundle or an extra character slot. Any way you paint it, they are after your wallet not your best interests.
why we need to sacrifice for the new players
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
Why do we need to sacrifice ? Why instead does Anet not have to make a compromise ?
Yes and no, a larger business should have employees that know what they are doing, you’re not going to let the intern handle the operations that could potentially land you with a law suit (I’m using that as an example). You would expect a multi million dollar company to have employees that are capable of handling their position. A small business may be easier to run because it just less work, less employees, less everything but in most cases (depending on the nature of the business) your employees do not need to have a degree to handle a cash register.
I’ll agree there is definitely an organization/communication problem.
(edited by Random.4691)
As have I, but it is fair to say oversights of this nature are typically avoided by larger businesses because they are so much more liable then the little guy with 1 employee. It is pretty kitten amateur for a company as large as Anet to be this negligent about something that could possibly cost them a lot of revenue.
Yes assume, they announced you would need the core game how many months ago ? This whole rolling it in with the expansion would have had a procedure they followed to come to the decision, it would have taken time. It would not have been a one or even two week decision. Of course I also am assuming that they know how to run a business professionally.
Now you’re just assuming that they rushed, I’ll be honest, it is sounding like you are running out of counter arguments so now you’re just throwing assumptions of time frames around. Maybe you’re right maybe they were rushed, in the end this is not how a multi million dollar company operates, especially when it pertains directly to the customers wallet.
If it truly was nothing more then a mistake due to being rushed, I’d hate to say it but certain people should not be in the position they are in. This is one of those mistakes that should cost a person or persons their job.
(edited by Random.4691)
Alright seeing as you refuse to scroll for whatever reason, they could have made the announcement that the core game would be available with the expansion when it became available for purchase. At which point they could have proactively offered refunds, and made the core edition unavailable for purchase.
They could have done all this without hinting towards a prepurchase, making their announcement exciting without all the bad publicity. Yeah there would still be people that would complain, I will agree that some of the complaints seem silly buthey who am I to tell them they shouldn’t have an opinion, even if I don’t agree with it.
Just like I’m not telling you not to have an opinion or stance, I’m just explaining the reasoning behind my opinion.
(edited by Random.4691)
@Vayne.8563
You mean just as you have been doing ?
It really is common practice to make an announcement to the public before you just change a business plan that affects them, more so when the customers money is involved.
You are entitled to believe whatever you like, and argument or debate is generally separate beliefs or opinions. They wouldn’t be an argument or debate if everyone just agreed. I’m sorry if you do not like the fact that people have different beliefs than you, you really should get used to it though because it is part of life.
Of course I feel my belief is more plausible, I would be agree with you if I felt yours was more plausible.
I’m not trying to change your mind, I fully aware from your post history what your stance is and that is perfectly fine. You should also accept that just because people have an opinion that is not the same as yours does not invalidate it, especially when their counter arguments are accurate.
Simply put go the mile if you want to debate it or agree to disagree and move on.
Scroll up and read my previous posts I already covered that argument.
Hard to say, on one hand it is pretty hard to believe a multi million dollar company didn’t have the fore site to make the appropriate announcements to prevent this. That leads me to believe they had an idea, maybe they under estimated how much of an pandemic.
On the other hand, it is entirely possible that they really were that negligent, if this is the case we have taught them a valuable lesson for future expansions.
And on the third hand (if they had one) NCsoft pushed them into this position, though it is hard to believe Anet had zero say in the matter.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
I just want to put my voice in here, and I know I’m late to the party, but as someone who has been playing Guild Wars for 8 years (both 1 and 2) I am sorely disappointed in ANET for slapping its vet players in the face. We are the ones who have kept the game going and profitable for them.
I completely understand they want to encourage new people to come check out the game, and I understand their reasoning for including the base game in the expansion. HOWEVER, they should have either had a combo price for that or have a different benefit for those who already have an account. It seems ridiculous that new players get 5 free character slots while vet players get….crickets?
I have normally been very supportive of ANET in the past. Guild Wars 1 and all its expansions were not a disappointment by any stretch of the imagination, it was fantastic. Guild Wars 2 base game was all it promised to be and more. There have been some experiments that didn’t go well, but they have normally done a great job of taking care of their core players who keep playing this game everyday.
I am hoping ANET will give us a response, even if it is something to the effect “We have heard you and are looking into a better solution” would be better than the echos of our frustration going around. I know they don’t want to speak out of turn or make things worse, but ANET please, you’ve had sufficient time to look at this and realize that your good intentions have backfired. I know you guys are good at coming up with solutions that work for everyone, just let us know what you’re doing to improve the situation. Thanks!
The devs have posted at least once saying that they are listening to feedback and passing it along to the appropriate people.
That may as well be an automated response, they use that statement for pretty much everything.
Every expansion with Sims required the base game to play. Always. Who knows what will happen with GW2 with the next xpac. Will it require only the base game, or will it require HoT as well as base game?
If you are going to compare apples and oranges, please be at least equal in comparing them.
What will happen with the next xpac will be they will quadruple check everything to make sure they haven’t neglected any key factors.
No actually you are missing the point, you keep focusing only on the FAQ’s, while that is a big part of it your forgetting the public announcement that should have been made regardless of the FAQ’s. The FAQ’s should have been changed before E3, sure that was an over site it happens whatever, forgetting to inform thousands of people that they need to stop throwing their money at the company is negligence.
When something get’s recalled do you think they wait until to corrected model is ready to go before they announce the recall ? Do they just let the product start blowing up all over the place ? No they recall the moment they know, that is how business works in the real world.
How long do you think E3 went on for ? This decision was made before they went to E3. It wasn’t a case of one person forgetting just the FAQ’s, it should have been announced (as I have already said) when it was finalized which would not have been the day of.
The FAQ was edited during E3 as far as I can tell. Almost immediately after there was a thread on Reddit saying that ANet changed the FAQ with a bunch of people calling them names, and accusing them of wrongdoing.
Once that happens, you have to word your response a lot more carefully. Once you’re accused of wrongdoing, any firm that’s ever had a legal department knows you have to start consulting. That takes time.
That’s how business works in the real world. responses take time.
They only brought it up on reddit AFTER the players caught it. They didn’t volunteer the information until they had no choice.
What your saying is, it went through all the stages that would have been necessary (which takes time) and not a single person there brought up the fact that it was suggested people should purchase the core game ahead of time and were still purchasing it and that it might be a good idea to inform the community ? Or at the very least make it unavailable for purchase ? That doesn’t jive for a multi million dollar company.
How long do you think E3 went on for ? This decision was made before they went to E3. It wasn’t a case of one person forgetting just the FAQ’s, it should have been announced (as I have already said) when it was finalized which would not have been the day of.
I’m actually shocked you went this far to hide your blunder. Would it not have been easier to say “oops, we made a mistake” or simply explain why you felt this was the best course of action.
Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?
A: Yes, but Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the Guild Wars 2 core game.This is not what your FAQ’s read a couple days ago, I mean one needs to ask, is this even legal ?
It’s an FAQ not a license agreement or terms of service so of course it’s legal. That’s what an FAQ is for. To even ask this question is beyond ridiculous
I don’t claim to be a lawyer but I think his question is a legitimate one, they advertised one thing and then changed it after sales had occurred. I would think thats a grey area of the law at the very least.
It’s not a gray area of the law. A FAQ is to answer questions. If an answer changes due to changes in the game, then you change the FAQ.
Let’s say that there was a FAQ for skill points. After the update it will have to be changed to hero points, because the answer to the question has changed.
Companies do have a right to change their minds.
Now, if you have purchased something from a company based on a FAQ and it’s changed and that change has somehow changed your purchase, then you have the right to a refund or some sort of compensation.
But it’s not illegal to change a FAQ. It’s not even immoral. If the FAQ is wrong, its’ pretty much a necessity. Why would you leave bad info on the website?
Why continually defend a company that is not willing to defend it’s own actions ? You can spin it any way you like, they should have given the customer base notice when the decision was finalized and then changed the FAQ’s. Anyone who knows business knows this was not a one night decision, it would have been require to be discussed, reviewed, approved, and a business plan set in motion. They let people buy the core right up until the moment they announced prepurchase, that is where they went wrong.
You can try and argue that they didn’t want to ruin the prepurchase announcement, but that is not a valid argument either, they could have announced that the core game would be available bundled with the expansion when it becomes ready for purchase without announcing when that would be.
Neither he nor I said it was illegal, he asked if it was, which is a valid question. Are you a lawyer ? Are you qualified to give an accurate answer or are you you saying what you want to believe ? As for it being a grey area, if it were not they wouldn’t be handing out refunds.
Seriously, again, why make excuses for them ? Their not even willing to make their own excuses.
(edited by Random.4691)
It’s not counted as free because you don’t get it. If you decide to use it, it is part of the bundle so it is still not free.
You are getting nothing for free no matter what route you take.
From what has been said, no. You can buy the xpac and start from scratch with your new core copy, or you can buy the xpax, add it to your already established account and not get a core copy.
I would imagine they have a “Contact Us” link on their web page.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
give it a rest now, I think the point has been made.
Anet has yet to answer, so I would argue that no the point has not been made to the ones that need to see the point.
I’ll take 10 copies !
Let’s pretend for a second that they gave you a separate code for the core copy when they “threw it in with the bundle”, and then let’s pretend that everyone received a separate code, not just new players. Now you MIGHT have a valid argument for it being free.
Currently it is part of the bundle you are purchasing, it does not have its own game key which makes it part of the expansion. So no, it is not free.
Correct, currently the expansion comes with the base game rolled in to it for ‘free’ regardless of which package you purchase.
If its part of the bundle in which you are paying money for it is not free. It is now a feature of the bundle, the Revenant is not free, the maps are not free, the specialization is not free even if they tell you it is. You are paying to receive it.
But all the things you listed are part of the expansion, not the core game. Of course they are not free. Unless you meant the old maps and the old specializations. Those are free if you’re a new player.
Are you paying money in order to get the core game ? The answer is yes.
You can say you are paying for the expansion until you’re blue in the face but the core game is bundles in with the expansion that you are paying for, thus it is not free.
Of course it’s free. You pay 50$ for the expansion. The core game is thrown in for free. They could have also charged new players another 20$ (for the core game) on top of the 50$. That wouldn’t have been free.
The core game is for free when you purchase HoT. That’s a fact.
If you’re going to use the word fact, you should take some time and look up the definition of free.
Correct, currently the expansion comes with the base game rolled in to it for ‘free’ regardless of which package you purchase.
If its part of the bundle in which you are paying money for it is not free. It is now a feature of the bundle, the Revenant is not free, the maps are not free, the specialization is not free even if they tell you it is. You are paying to receive it.
But all the things you listed are part of the expansion, not the core game. Of course they are not free. Unless you meant the old maps and the old specializations. Those are free if you’re a new player.
Are you paying money in order to get the core game ? The answer is yes.
You can say you are paying for the expansion until you’re blue in the face but the core game is bundles in with the expansion that you are paying for, thus it is not free.
the original gw team is absolutely trustworthy.
they wouldn’t have done things this way. They didn’t become number one by playing mind games.
I completely agree with this, I posted it in another thread, the GW team seems to have lost its way somewhere along the line. They used to realize a happy customer is a paying customer. They took care of their customers and showed appreciation.
Correct, currently the expansion comes with the base game rolled in to it for ‘free’ regardless of which package you purchase.
If its part of the bundle in which you are paying money for it is not free. It is now a feature of the bundle, the Revenant is not free, the maps are not free, the specialization is not free even if they tell you it is. You are paying to receive it.
You might want to google ‘heart of thorns presale’. Someone in the megathread linked two game store sites (around page 82 I think) where you can pre-order the expansion for way way way less… and apparently standalone.
Don’t do that, Arena Net posted not long ago that the only site offering preorders is their official website or get in their ingame store.
Any other source is not trustworthy.
While this holds some water, one should ask themselves. Is Anet currently a trustworthy source ?
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
For some, simply announcing a new class is worth $50, or a new map or specialization or whatever. People view value differently, for me $50 + another $10 for a slot is not a whole lot of money but its by no means worth throwing away (my issue isn’t price, its principle). Maybe for Johnny down the road, $50 is a lot of money, maybe Johnny works twice as hard as I do for a lot less pay. Maybe the added $10 for a character slot is the difference between his kids getting lunch for the week or not having lunch.
The same can be reversed, some people have or make much more money than the rest of us so to them $50 is next to nothing. Some people throw $50 away on something many of us would view as insanity.
Everyone Values money differently, some people really do save up to be able to afford their couple hours of entertainment during the evenings, while some of us can afford to just whip out our CC without a second though.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
I would just like an official statement.
Would it be so hard to come out and say.
“When we made the decision to include the core copy our intention was to make a bigger better game for everyone”. “We believe injecting new customers into the game would have created a more full world for us all”. “In doing so we did not take into account that some of our existing customers would feel slighted, for which we apologize”.
“We do appreciate our existing customer base, and though we felt our intentions were good, we made a critical error”. “In order to correct this error and show our appreciation for our veteran customers we plan on doing X”. “We hope this helps show that we truly do appreciate our customers and want nothing more then create a game/world in which all our customers new and old feel not only excited to be a part of but a place where the can look forward to many hours of entertainment while we continue bringing new updates and content to Tyria”.
Our sincerest apologies, Arena Net
No $ amount is not that bad, but the amount is moot. It’s the principle.