They forgot 2 major rules of business.
1) A happy customer is a paying customer.
2) Customer appreciation. There is a reason many MANY business have customer appreciation events.
You could always buy a virtual pet rock, I hear they are well worth your money.
A better question is why do people like OP keep throwing around words like “entitlement” ? Have you bothered to read past 10% of the complaints ? It is a matter of principle, it is the fact that we should be able to trust the company that is asking for our hard earned dollars. I see no reason to give Anet a shred of trust at this point. Ya a character slot would be nice, you know what would be even better ? If they hadn’t scammed thousands of customers new and old with their FAQ’s.
For the record those FAQ’s have been up for months so the whole “they will reimburse people that bought it in the last 30 days” is not good enough. They spent their time, some spent money on gems, they have progressed in game. All of that has value to each individual, they shouldn’t lose it all for a BS refund because Anet consciously scammed them.
It wasn’t an accident, I used to think maybe it was a mistake but the more I have thought about it, someone there knew it was wrong. If they truly couldn’t see the problem with their little stunt then they should close the doors because they have no business running a company.
The silence ontop of it proves to me they know they are in the wrong and are trying to figure out how to BS their way out of it.
You didnt read my post did you? Read it because I said the only people who should be kittened are the people who bought the core game recently. The exact people you are talking about. My post however is about the vets that think they are entitled to get free stuff because they have been playing for 3 years.
Their silence could mean they are looking into a way to make those people happy that recently bought the core game and feel like they got ripped off. You know kitten well if they say “we are looking into a solution” people would find something to lash out at them with. Your not working fast enough, or that isnt good enough, or this or that.
There no need to read past this “Why exactly do some of the veteran players think ANet owes you anything? I see a lot of vet players understand that nothing is owed to them, but the vocal majority of vets here on the forums think something is owed to them”.
Its has been explained NUMEROUS times, take the time to read a few of the thousands of posts spread all over the internet before asking a question that has been asked several times over. There are many problems aside from them scamming people, you would know this if you did some research. Stop focusing on the 1 part that people feel jipped, you know what they are absolutely 100% entitled to ? Their opinion.
A better question is why do people like OP keep throwing around words like “entitlement” ? Have you bothered to read past 10% of the complaints ? It is a matter of principle, it is the fact that we should be able to trust the company that is asking for our hard earned dollars. I see no reason to give Anet a shred of trust at this point. Ya a character slot would be nice, you know what would be even better ? If they hadn’t scammed thousands of customers new and old with their FAQ’s.
For the record those FAQ’s have been up for months so the whole “they will reimburse people that bought it in the last 30 days” is not good enough. They spent their time, some spent money on gems, they have progressed in game. All of that has value to each individual, they shouldn’t lose it all for a BS refund because Anet consciously scammed them.
It wasn’t an accident, I used to think maybe it was a mistake but the more I have thought about it, someone there knew it was wrong. If they truly couldn’t see the problem with their little stunt then they should close the doors because they have no business running a company.
The silence ontop of it proves to me they know they are in the wrong and are trying to figure out how to BS their way out of it.
I completely agree, I was curious if putting a sentence such as that at the top of their page would alleviate them from any future legal issues. The question itself is what I’m curious about, not whether or not they have the right without it.
Just throwing this out there but wouldn’t a simple “FAQ’s are subject to change at the discretion of Anet” have taken care of everything ?
Again, I’m not a lawyer so I’m honestly asking this question because I really don’t know if there needs to be more to it ?
Here’s another analogy for those who are having trouble understanding.
You have a car at home but it old and you have driven it for years so it is time for a new car. I have just received my licence and never owned a car. We both go to the same dealership and buy the same car for the same price. My car as a new driver is great it has everything I need to drive it. You’re car, not so much, you see they told you because you already have a car at home, the engine is going to be removed from your new car because you have one at home, and no you don’t get a discount.
It is a great value to new player’s and it is also a smart business move. There is a way to go about it though, that is where Anet completely missed the boat.
You know what’s funny? most people in comment section are defending Anet. Goes to show how mad GW2 community became. Sad to see but the problem is on community not Anet.
Yes this is completely the communities fault …
We all just woke up one day and thought “hey guys let’s get together and see if we can make a game we love(d) burn to the ground for no reason at all” “WHO’S WITH ME” !
Next you’ll be telling us that when a crime is committed it is always the victims fault because, maybe they didn’t run away fast enough …
Alright now you have done it, I now want a shiny new flame shield along with a character slot, explanation, and apology.
I’m sure they have a legal team, if their legal team misses this, they should look for a new legal team. They might then have grounds to go after their now previous legal team … maybe.
I’m not a lawyer so I honestly have no idea if what I just said holds any water.
Look at it this way, would it have gone this far if Anet had opened up and communicated about it ?
Who is really to blame here ?
As for the employees, sure I have empathy for them, but you can’t just say “hey that’s ok because your employee’s have families”. Its no different then if a parent commits a crime (not saying this is a crime) do you just let them get away with it because they have kids at home ?
The Employee’s are victims of the company, not the player’s. The Player’s have not done anything wrong, we have voiced our opinions and concerns. Anet has voiced … nothing.
(edited by Random.4691)
Stop telling players how they should respond!
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
I’m not telling you to change your mind, I’m telling you why I believe something different or why I don’t agree with what you’re saying. There is a difference, if you change your mind on your own because of points I make then great, if you don’t then that also is perfectly fine.
Mentions ArcheAge and Warlords of Draenor, but doesn’t mention the $40 Heavensward. Alright.
Ff14 is never used in any kind of comparison because of the gigantic flop it was and how many people lost money initially buying it. The script gets flipped on it so often they just let it be
Only A Realm Reborn is doing incredibly well and Heavensward, which is cheaper than HoT by the way, comes out next week. Stop thinking of the original FFXIV.
Yet I played every FF game up until I got burned on FFXIV so that was the end all of FF games for me. Will probably never play another FF again due to that.
I even got closed beta to a realm reborn, got into every beta, but they still burned me. I played ff11 for over 4 years and got nothing for getting burned on a realm reborn.
Some fans stuck by them but I can tell you as a long time fan of the FF franchise, FF will never be the same for me.
Sad thing is people are feeling the same way about this game..
ONE bad experience with the original FFXIV MMO and you’re now hating on the entire FF franchise. Sad thing is that people can feel that way without actually giving the games a chance.
I don’t agree with briggah.7910 very often but for some people a first impression is a very important thing, and it can define your feeling towards something forever.
Stop telling players how they should respond!
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
No one, regardless of which side of the argument they fall on should tell people that they should be on their side. No matter how reasonable the argument is or isn’t.
I agree with this statement, do not try and convince others, there is nothing wrong with a debate because maybe you learn something you did not know but its just silly to expect everyone to jump on board. Some agree some do not, take your stance on which ever side you want but we should be respectful of one anothers opinion.
Actually I disagree. It’s completely fine to tell people why they should believe you if you give an argument as to why they should believe you.
Actually, you can say that’s the entire purpose of debates and arguments.
There is nothing wrong in doing or saying anything if you can give a logical, sound argument for it.
Again, there is nothing wrong with DEBATING a point. Shoving your opinion down their throat in an effort to persuade them to change theirs is not. I’m guessing you missed the debate part the first time so I made sure it was in capitals for you.
Stop telling players how they should respond!
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
So you’re telling those who say that the pricing is fine off for trying to get people to believe their side, but then doing the same thing but for the opposing side……
People should make their own minds up based on the evidence available. Not because someone else said they should be on one side or the other.
I agree with this statement, do not try and convince others, there is nothing wrong with a debate because maybe you learn something you did not know but its just silly to expect everyone to jump on board. Some agree some do not, take your stance on which ever side you want but we should be respectful of one anothers opinion.
They won’t be answering question regarding this tornado of crap, so it’s not going to be Anet in the hot seat.
I have no desire to here what they have to say until they address the current problems. For those of you that are interested, I hope you hear many great things.
Some of us are taking the stand on the principle that they duped people into buying the core edition, were not honest about it (in fact they tried to hide it), some appreciation should be should to those of us who made this expansion possible with our wallets, and basically just don’t be scummy about it. Be up front, listen to us, and for the love of god, give us some form of an explanation.
It’s pretty bad when reviews are asking why they haven’t explained them selves yet.
You’re right, I actually thought of gold sellers as I was driving to work. There are ways to put roadblocks in place though, many other games have done so with their free trial accounts and free core editions as well.
I agree and don’t agree with her opinion on whether its worth lashing out, she really has no right to tell others what they should lash out about.
I do agree that the people attacking individuals at Anet are in the wrong, some poor art designer who had nothing to do with any of this getting his/her face ripped off because of it ? That part should not happen.
Lack of caring, people keep saying it takes time. It really doesn’t, their PR department should have whipped something together 48 hours ago and give it to whom ever the poor soul is that has to release it to the public. It’s actually common practice.
Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.
They claim the full game is free. So why shouldn’t they give existing players an extra copy of the game, if it is included for free with the expansion? Its free aint it? So what’s the problem?
See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.
So what if Anet gives you the core game for free? Since you already have the core game what stops you from trying to scam others and sell your free core game to make yourself money? I think this is the main reason you won’t get a free version of the core game. Scams are all over the place on the internet and lets face it some people would take this free game and sell it on sites like ebay and maybe even call it HoT just to profit themselves.
That is not a very good argument, what’s to stop people from selling their accounts now ? You can’t just assume everyone is going to break the rules. Sure some will try and sell it, there is no doubt about that. The majority would probably give it to a friend or family member to spark interest, some might just keep it for themselves. I have 5 copies of the game, I don’t need 5 copies, I rarely use them all, but I bought them, they are mine and I have no desire to “try and sell them” to someone else.
Good morning by the way !
To be fair, I don’t think anyone expected it to go down like this, Anet included. You never change a business plan mid stream unless legally obligated to do so.
What they should have done is say “hey you know giving it to new players for free is a great idea but we’re locked in now, how about we do (X) for the next expansion”.
Those that purchased the game after Anet insinuated they needed to should get more than a refund. It is not the same as them saying “oh there’s an expansion coming out that MIGHT require me to purchase the game, I think I’ll go buy it”.
They purchased it because that is what it appeared they were being told needed to happen. They shouldn’t lose their progression, gem purchases, names, and whatever else they have acquired based solely on the fact that Anet is pretty bad at communicating.
this is true, but since anet has no backbone set up to be able to handle this type of transaction, they will probably just say forget those guys.
Sad but true, it really is sad what large companies try and do get away with at the expense of the little guy now adays.
And that folks for all of you haters is the real big picture for some behind all of this rage. You might not agree with it now, but at some point in your life your going to get screwed by big business, and at that point you’ll be happy someone is sticking up for you or wishing someone was sticking up for you.
Those that purchased the game after Anet insinuated they needed to should get more than a refund. It is not the same as them saying “oh there’s an expansion coming out that MIGHT require me to purchase the game, I think I’ll go buy it”.
They purchased it because that is what it appeared they were being told needed to happen. They shouldn’t lose their progression, gem purchases, names, and whatever else they have acquired based solely on the fact that Anet is pretty bad at communicating.
If they start adding more content now it will either be rushed and craptastic, or you can expect it to be delayed.
It might have a dungeon rolled into it already, that is part of the problem, we just have no idea what we will be getting.
Lol..
This sums it up..
http://puu.sh/itAcM/bffe1e0ea4.pngP.s- Retail sites already offering this game at discounted rates
http://www.gamecard.mobi/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-addon-pc.html?___store=default&a_aid=ckw
http://www.gamesdeal.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-addon-pc.html?___store=english&a_aid=ckw
Atleast EU players can pay with dollars there and benefit from a normal price, rather then getting double screwed.. And guess what, these sites atleast give us the release date (late december 2015)
That first link is pretty accurate for one of the key issues.
$50 is not the issue for some of us. However, there is enough posts explaining these issues, do some research, read up, get educated on why people aren’t happy.
Fraud is always news. The ICC is so specific to GW2 I wouldnt be able to explain it to someone that doesn’t play. Bait and switch is a timeless maneuver though. Anet went oldschool.
Really? “ANet sold unlimited access to repeated content, and then never (for over a year and a half and counting at least) repeated that content.”
It’s not difficult, and IMO is far more newsworthy than the current debacle. Much of a rip off as the packages are, at least customers know what they’re getting (unless they turn the Revenant class off altogether for a couple of years).
Really ? Please enlighten the rest of us as to what we are actually getting because that seems to be a pretty big question at this point in time.
You’re not getting anything if you don’t buy it, so don’t buy it. It’s as simple as that. If I don’t like something, I don’t buy it. That’s the mature way to deal with things not moaning and complaining about it when nothing is going to change.
Honestly, if Anet caves and adds a character slot to the 50.00 pack and doesn’t add anything extra to the other packs, those who bought the other packs will be kittened. I paid my 108+ for the ultimate because there was no character slot in the 50.00 pack.
The mature thing to do is stand up for yourself, you’re right things aren’t going to change if people like you believe silence is the answer, look how well that’s working for Anet.
You think all the major points in history happened because people just sat silently ? While this may not be on the level of such historical events, the principle is the same.
Also don’t dodge the question, please enlighten us as to what we are getting with the expansion, in detail please.
“Free” (with your $50 purchase!!) is the magic moment were rage takes over?
It is not free, you have to spend money to get it, just because you are being told that that part of the package is free doesn’t make it true. As long as it is attached to anything that causes a person to spend money it is not free.
Being listed in a shop as a free download then charging $50 for the xpac without it attached to it would make it free, but its not, because it is rolled into the cost otherwise it would simply be a free download separated from the bundle.
Are people really this naive ?
Apparently putting “(with $50 purchase)” wasn’t sufficiently obvious mockery of ArenaNet and everyone else calling it “free”. So no, I’m not naive, I’m sarcastic. Obviously its NOT free. On a good day its a 16% discount. Which is why people flipping out that new players get a $10 value for lining up to get fleeced/join us in game and the degree of frothing outrage OVER $10 DOLLARS is just ridiculous. I’ve left bigger tips at a pizza parlor. It’s just NOT THAT SIGNIFICANT.
The “I bought it in the last 5 months” crowd I have sympathy for. The shrieking over not getting a $10 pat on the head for being a loyal consumer of their product is like listening to kids throw a tantrum because maybe mommy and daddy DON’T love all their kids equally.
Should they have thrown existing players a bone? Yes. Obviously. Was that bone ever going to be a free character slot? Just as obviously no it wasn’t. The character slot is the lynchpin of the $75 bundle and people don’t need two of them. There is not a single person playing this game that hasn’t either ignored a class (or 3), bought character slots, or wiped a character to free up a slot. Every Single Player has done one of those things. The time to rage about less slots than classes was three years ago.
So now we wait. Because someone at ArenaNet WILL have to come out and give the “I’m not apologizing but we are sorry” speech once they’ve figured out how to give a roughly $10 pat on the head to veterans without sinking the $75 dollar bundle.
Come off it man, sinking the $75 package … really ? That package will be the least sold of the three options, and if they didn’t want to be put in this position they should have acted like a mature, all grown up company.
They brought this on themselves with their shady business practices, their refusal to communicate, their complete lack of care for the people who made this xpac possible. It was us, the vets that ARE paying for this xpac to be made.
If you want to take the stance that it’s all the player fault, that’s your prerogative but open your eyes and see beyond the tip of your nose. Even you have agreed that yes, all this should have happened.
When people like you roll over constantly, this is the exact reason large companies do whatever the hell they want, everyone just bends over and takes its.
Whether it is $10 or $1,000,000 doesn’t matter, they have an obligation to their customers. They could at least be forth coming, heck even a kiss before getting screwed would have been nice. Just because you see $10 as no big deal doesn’t mean they can do whatever they please. We invested in this game, I want my investment.
(edited by Random.4691)
OP, you joined the forum 4 months ago, how does that make you a veteran?
Some of us don’t always use our main accounts, lets just say sometimes its better to be safe than sorry. Mods are people too and they can make mistakes.
If it does not scale, are you in good relations with any larger guilds ? If you are then ask if they would be willing to rep your guild for a short period to help you complete your task.
Thats laaame though x)
It might be lame but it also might be the solution.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
If there is an exchange in order to receive a product it is not free. The core game is now part of the bundle you are paying for, thus it is not free. Why is it hard to understand ?
Is it because they told you it is free ? Ask them to give you a key code for the core game before you purchase HoT and then a separate key code for HoT when you drop the money. If they won’t give you a key code for nothing for the core game, I’m sorry to shatter your theory but it is not free. If it is part of a package that costs money then by definition it is not free.
If you go to a car dealership and they want 40k for a car and tell you they will throw in the engine for free are you really going to believe your not paying for that engine ?
So basically we went from a core game that will still be available to new players, to an optional xpac that won’t have the core game but will need the core game to play, to an optional xpac with the core game bundled into it, to no more core game available to new players without the xpac (from anet), to if you want to play GW2 as a new player you have to buy the xpac (unless you go to a third party dealer).
Who’s driving this clown car ?
its one map, guild halls, and a few new mechanics…. its not huge
And 9 class expansions, a new class, new wvw map, new pvp map, a new storyline, new progression, craftable precursors, new armour and weapon skins, unrevealed content as well as likely another several years of continued content development on top of all the features at-launch.
Remember, some of that list will be available without HoT.
I’m not disagreeing, I’m just saying if the game is now free like so many are claiming then hypothetically it should be free at retailers as well. If its a free game those will rot on the shelves because everyone should be able to just DL it here. Which is not the case at all.
I’m actually shocked you went this far to hide your blunder. Would it not have been easier to say “oops, we made a mistake” or simply explain why you felt this was the best course of action.
Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?
A: Yes, but Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns includes the Guild Wars 2 core game.This is not what your FAQ’s read a couple days ago, I mean one needs to ask, is this even legal ?
It’s an FAQ not a license agreement or terms of service so of course it’s legal. That’s what an FAQ is for. To even ask this question is beyond ridiculous
I don’t claim to be a lawyer but I think his question is a legitimate one, they advertised one thing and then changed it after sales had occurred. I would think thats a grey area of the law at the very least.
Hypothetically the stores would have to give it away for free and try and claim their losses from Anet or NCsoft.
Can someone dig up a video or official post from Anet where they actually say “I promise this” or “I promise that”
I’m not sure they ever “promised” anything, I’m thinking they said things and people took those are promises. People change their minds all the time. Some things have to change to get better.
If they didn’t do a pinky swear with you personally I wouldn’t take it as a promise.
So you would be perfectly fine if say you purchase the xpac and a month down the road they “change their mind” and decide they aren’t going to release it ? Here’s the kicker, no refunds, after all people change their minds all the time right ?
Seeing as that would never happen and I already think of you as a troll. I have nothing else to respond to you. :P
You don’t have to respond, but I am curious why you would think it would never happen ? I mean we are talking about a company that just insinuated to (I’ll guess and say thousands) of people that they needed to buy the game prior to the xpac, only to “change their minds”.
Still waiting for proof that Anet actually said “I Promise”
Can you link me to any other game that had a pre-order for an expansion and they decided to just drop it and not refund its players? If not well it would never happen.
Why would I link something that doesn’t exist ? I have never said anywhere that Anet made a promise. I did say they insinuated, which is why my question is relevant. They are insinuating that they will be releasing an expansion, they have not promised they are releasing one.
You seem to be full of information and I keep hearing others saying Anet broke a promise. I thought maybe you could help me solve the issue since I really don’t think Anet actually said “I promise”
Take it as a complement.
You are actually 100% correct, they never did make a promise.
And TY, I do like to do some research so I’m not just verbally crapping all over the place. It’s hard to take a stand if you don’t actually know what your standing for.
That is very true. so it can still be purchased from a third party, someone should probably inform them that is is now apparently free.
That aside, combining it with HoT does make it a stand alone core game. That is what a stand alone is, you no longer need to go out and purchase what was once the core game. You just need to buy HoT.
Can someone dig up a video or official post from Anet where they actually say “I promise this” or “I promise that”
I’m not sure they ever “promised” anything, I’m thinking they said things and people took those are promises. People change their minds all the time. Some things have to change to get better.
If they didn’t do a pinky swear with you personally I wouldn’t take it as a promise.
So you would be perfectly fine if say you purchase the xpac and a month down the road they “change their mind” and decide they aren’t going to release it ? Here’s the kicker, no refunds, after all people change their minds all the time right ?
Seeing as that would never happen and I already think of you as a troll. I have nothing else to respond to you. :P
You don’t have to respond, but I am curious why you would think it would never happen ? I mean we are talking about a company that just insinuated to (I’ll guess and say thousands) of people that they needed to buy the game prior to the xpac, only to “change their minds”.
Still waiting for proof that Anet actually said “I Promise”
Can you link me to any other game that had a pre-order for an expansion and they decided to just drop it and not refund its players? If not well it would never happen.
Why would I link something that doesn’t exist ? I have never said anywhere that Anet made a promise. I did say they insinuated, which is why my question is relevant. They are insinuating that they will be releasing an expansion, they have not promised they are releasing one.
If it does not scale, are you in good relations with any larger guilds ? If you are then ask if they would be willing to rep your guild for a short period to help you complete your task.
As long as the core game remains only available while it is attached to HoT it is no longer an expansion. It has become the standalone core game because the only way to get the core game is to purchase HoT.
Can someone dig up a video or official post from Anet where they actually say “I promise this” or “I promise that”
I’m not sure they ever “promised” anything, I’m thinking they said things and people took those are promises. People change their minds all the time. Some things have to change to get better.
If they didn’t do a pinky swear with you personally I wouldn’t take it as a promise.
So you would be perfectly fine if say you purchase the xpac and a month down the road they “change their mind” and decide they aren’t going to release it ? Here’s the kicker, no refunds, after all people change their minds all the time right ?
Seeing as that would never happen and I already think of you as a troll. I have nothing else to respond to you. :P
You don’t have to respond, but I am curious why you would think it would never happen ? I mean we are talking about a company that just insinuated to (I’ll guess and say thousands) of people that they needed to buy the game prior to the xpac, only to “change their minds”.
It is also hurting the potential future customer base, they are clearly underestimating the power of Reddit, youtube, review sites, blogs, friends of players, the list goes on. Remember the telephone game you played as a kid ? That X thousands, potentially of course.
It could very well have been a human error, but changing it with no notice, actually scratch that, changing it and not saying anything about it until they were caught makes whether it was an error or a planned money grab questionable at best.
Anet has the emails to those sold accounts available, the right thing to do would have been similar to a recall, they could have sent out emails explaining the error which would have covered their butts. Then it would have been up to those players to decide what course of action they wanted to take.
(edited by Random.4691)
At the moment neither, I don’t feel Anet cares enough to get my money, it is their job to convince me why I should give them a dime. So far with all the crap I believe they have pulled followed by silence, they are doing a pretty poor job of that.
HoT Pre-Purchase Questions and Feedback [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Random.4691
Its a grey area, it is not common but its not unheard of either. TBH there is nothing wrong with it, it is up to us, the consumer to judge whether we feel we have enough information to dole out the cash or wait for more info.
Actually that was me, touche.