Guild Wars 2

johnsonade.9547:

High amounts of effective CC in confined spaces

>Tfw you realize most capture nodes are confined spaces. Unless you’re willing to give up all of them!

You don’t need mobility if you’re sitting at their nodes. This isn’t WvW lmfao, if you took their point and they run away YOU WIN.

Condition removal is low but purity / generosity / melandru runes make up for it quite nicely.

Any way you look at it you will lose this argument. I can’t wait until you actually face one (since clearly you haven’t) in soloq / hotjoin / tpvp and realize how little is what you can do against them, whether in a 1v1, 1v2 or 2v2.

Medazolam.3058:

People complaining about engie turrets? my god, now ive seen everything. I see no need to rehash the points already made in this thread, but it should take people all of about 5 min to realize how to avoid/destroy the turrets.

If it was so easy people wouldn’t complain. Jump off your high horse and stop thinking you’re good and everyone else sucks.

All your possible 1v1 solutions against an engi fighting on point will fail simply because the engi himself is not AFK! Good luck fighting him with his turrets on you, good luck taking time to destroy the turrets while he takes free shots at you, knocks you back, spams you with condis, drops supply crate in your face, activates thumper’s active or simply kills you!

Not to mention that thumper is tanky.

alofear.9637:

Can I decap and hold a point vrs 3 people? Yes… does that make me OP? … big NO..

In a conquest game mode, yes it does. Maybe you can be balanced all you want at Courtyard, everywhere else it’s easy mode faceroll overpowered.

So many engineer players here it’s unreal.

People, if you haven’t faced this abomination of a build (I have tried this myself, and it’s simply EASY MODE just like anything engineer related) then don’t talk. It lacks counterplay and requires at least 3 people to reliably kill the engi quickly, because he can hold it just fine against 2.

Edit: And lol at those that say “lol just destroy the turrets”. The only turret worth putting up early is the rocket one, flame and thumper can be setup later when people actually show up, and it’s not like the engi will just let you range his turrets in a 1v1 situation either.

I do thanks for asking and thank you for the bump too.

The one and ONLY “competitive” tourney as a balancing example.

I’m gonna need you to take a deep breath and realize that gw2’s population is bigger than that tourney. That such small sample size is completely meaningless and irrelevant when looking at things from an overall perspective.

Just because certain specs can be “countered” when you’re a 5 man voip group at the very top level, it doesn’t mean they’re fine. Just because a build apparently has ONE hard counter yet it destroys everyone else, it doesn’t mean it’s fine either. Food for thought.

Why do some classes have a vast amount of counters and counterplay opportunities, while others remain as immovable objects to most? Tradeoffs where?

If this is what the extremely sporadic “competitive” scene going to do to this game, I shudder to think what will happen when we get a 2nd tourney!

Terrahero.9358:

In a coordinated play, in a skilled atmosphere, engineer apparently does not have a place in PvP.

I need only point at the ToL. Second least played profession was Engineer, but a significant margin. Barely more popular then Mesmer, who is also really boned.

When people complain about getting stomped by Engi’s then just take that as a hint on what level they play at, because its miles away from the top.

So according to you which class is the most powerful right now?

Lol engineers so weak right now, buff them!

This forum is comedic gold.

Can’t seem to do much against brainless condition spammers T_T

It gets me killed more than it saves me, actually I don’t think it has ever saved me.

Can we delete it? I’ll take anything.

For those that don’t know, is the 5 point minor trait in SA that auto stealth’s you at 25% HP.

“66% chance to steal health on critical”

2 questions:

Do they stack?
Do they scale based on some attribute? Perhaps healing power or just power?

ty in advance

Opinions? does it even work?

I laughed more than I should have. Necromancers need anything but buffs.

Lol you can play without runes or amulets and still win as an engi so why does it matter?

Voted engineer. The class plays by itself and any apparent complexity is overwritten by engi’s ridiculous strengths in every single situation.

Autopilot faceroll overpowered.

Whenever some bright mesmer player moas me to start the encounter I just turn around, dodge, 5, dodge and wave goodbye.

That usually gets them mad. Because the reasonable approach is obviously 1v1ing while in moa form lol.

Smart mesmers (trolls) use it when they’re already outnumbering you tho, there’s very little you can do in those cases, however if an engi supply crates you it’s the same, such gamechanging elites usually mean death when you’re already in a tough spot.

Endymion.1869:

Razor.6392:

Oh okay… thanks for the info.

All I can do is try to answer your doubts, then.

Races don’t matter (I was reading a bit on mabinogi’s wikipedia so I see where you come from). There are racial skills but they’re barely worth using, people just use the normal ones available to everyone.

The class that you’re looking for is perhaps elementalist. It is arguably the most complex to learn due to the sheer number of abilities at your avail, and is the most squishy (along with thief), so avoiding getting hit is vital especially in pve. You can be a ranged caster with staff, or a melee range fighter with daggers, switching through all 4 elements constantly to get the most out of your class.

They aren’t really knight-ish though, because they’re a light armor class. However they’re the only ones that can use magic. (Mesmers come in 2nd place, might want to check them out too).

The above poster suggested guardian, one of the most durable classes out there. You can go AFK while fighting monsters and not die as a guardian.

WUT. Guardian sounds OP if thats the case. I was told I can also make a toughness set so I can be a tanky elementalist? I’m assuming elementalist gives best damage if most squishy?

Yes ele can do the highest damage in pve but at the cost of survivability. Most bosses can 1 shot you into downed state.

Oh okay… thanks for the info.

All I can do is try to answer your doubts, then.

Races don’t matter (I was reading a bit on mabinogi’s wikipedia so I see where you come from). There are racial skills but they’re barely worth using, people just use the normal ones available to everyone.

The class that you’re looking for is perhaps elementalist. It is arguably the most complex to learn due to the sheer number of abilities at your avail, and is the most squishy (along with thief), so avoiding getting hit is vital especially in pve. You can be a ranged caster with staff, or a melee range fighter with daggers, switching through all 4 elements constantly to get the most out of your class.

They aren’t really knight-ish though, because they’re a light armor class. However they’re the only ones that can use magic. (Mesmers come in 2nd place, might want to check them out too).

The above poster suggested guardian, one of the most durable classes out there. You can go AFK while fighting monsters and not die as a guardian.

Master of Timespace.2548:

This is valid, though regen works just fine against condis. Weakness however does not. Then again you can cleanse the conditions.

Lol. The thief will just hit the #1 key again.

Conditions can be easily re-applied, and regen’s 150-300 hp regen can’t do much against the 700 burning, 200 poison and 100+ bleeding per second (not to mention how its decreased by 33%)

While the thief part is true, you’re still 5k hp higher than you would be if you didn’t dodge. It can make the difference. Engi has burn on crit, so you can dodge all you want but it matters very, very little.

Dee Jay.2460:

If even Engis are complaining about condition spam we know it’s serious.

But yeah, condition spam has reached stupid proportions in this game, I agree.

I have a level 80 engi that I very rarely use. I only logged it recently to finish an old achievement (3rd tier of genius).

My main is ele and thief,

Hey quick question, does mabinogi have pvp? Is that game worth it?

CoF is a given.

Same with AC but if you had to put them on a top 10 ranking, which ones would be the fastest? (path-wise, out of every dungeon)

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Pls experienced dungeon crew, I wanna farm some gold

you’re free to pm me for questions

Kiriakulos.1690:

In the spirit of the thread’s OP, I believe that damage needs to be nerfed.
Whenever I fight people in PvP they keep spamming skills that deal damage and these damage skills are reducing my health, killing me even!

This CANNOT be allowed! Everyone should only use non-damaging skills, except me of course, so that I can choose full damage gear/build and rake up 90-0 kill ratios and prove that I am as good as I believe I am.

Since these are my opinions they obviously can’t be wrong and so must be known as truth.

Signed
-Condition faceroll player

The thing about conditions is that
-You only need condi damage and maybe some duration and you’re golden, you don’t need to sacrifice other stats
-Not mitigated by defense (power builds are, shocking right? protection does nothing against condis, same with regen)
-Spam-ability. Engi can just faceroll bombkit or nades. Necro can simply spam 1 on scepter / staff 2345 combined with balanced fears and cover condis. Basically every attack inflicts conditions, while only a select few can burst kitten power builds.
-Dodge / aegis a 5k backstab by a thief? rewarding. Dodge a #2 staff mark on a necro? Well you dodged 2 stacks of bleed, too bad he has way more of those in his kitten nal, if not say an unlimited amount through different means.

conditions promote passive, mindless gameplay. nothing is engaging about a guy with double the hp of a glass cannon (triple in case of necros) spamming conditions with every single attack.

Well this whole argument it’s pointless. I believe conditions aren’t broken damage-wise but it’s ridiculous how fast they can be applied. It’s not so much as their damage, it’s how dodging and cleansing them is utterly pointless at the rate that they’re spammed!

It’s mindless and boring gameplay. Fire and forget ftw.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Until someone can show numbers that show condition damage is far more effective than direct damage, than these threads whining about conditions are just that, whining. Direct burst damage is more efficient, especially against the more skilled players. The only time I play a condition build is on my engi and that’s only because I like pistol/shield and those only work well with conditions. Most of time I play zerker builds.

And like it or not, the TOL illustrates this well. You can’t dismiss it as “irrelevant” just because it contradicts your complaint.

It’s not that they outdamage BURST builds, though I’m not saying that it’s impossible.

It’s the fact that they’re also debuffs that eventually outlast you while turning you useless unless you cleanse them. Condis can’t kill people as fast as power builds do but it’s coming terrifying close.

hmm ok ty guys. I completely forgot about the fractals one.

Master of Timespace.2548:

To be fair there were almost no condi builds in the tol finals.

Please stop bringing that up. GW2 “competitive” is almost non existent and to bring that one (the only one afaik) tourney up to these kind of discussions is irrelevant and pointless.

Is there any place to get those? I remember you could get some at the mists (pre glory removal) but I’m sure there are more places where you can get them by exchanging stuff…

Any ideas?

DaliIndica.9041:

You could say the same thing about damage. Once you heal, you will be getting hit again. The condition “issue” is further compounded by Warriors. You need to be able to stack a lot of conditions with them, because they never have them for long and outside of cooldowns.

Also, as an engie, you can just start giving some back. You can be tanky as you like whilst still putting out some nice damage yourself.

Yeah well engineers are broken as a whole. I was playing a power spec tho because I’m not lame.

You can dodge high burst, you can also dodge conditions except that it doesn’t even matter because they’re instantly reapplied. Woo I dodged 3/5 shots of an engi poison spray, or 1 of his incendiary rounds, doesn’t matter.

You’re killing pvp. NOBODY enjoys being spammed with conditions, far more than what you can clear. Even when using elixir C as an engi I still have 3-4 condis the next second.

Do something please.

PS: I don’t even play engi btw, it’s an occasional alt and also an example.

Yeah I know withdraw is very bad for those on heal procs. I learned that with runes of grenth a few weeks ago.

The chill would proc at the end of my dodge, making it useless.

I plan to use bewildering ambush instead of sleight of hand tho T_T

I guess I’ll have to drop it if I want to keep sb

whered u go my friend

Darkobra.6439:

Razor.6392:

Darkobra.6439:

Yeah, the good ones stay at the top while the bad ones fall fast.

How is this suggestion bad? Are you another frustrated PVT hero?

How can I be frustrated if:

1. My alleged stat combination wasn’t touched.
2. The nerf has done nothing to affect any gameplay.
3. I’ve moved on to other games long ago because there is no new content to keep me playing.

If your suggestion had any merit, the thread wouldn’t need you bumping it and defending it. The thread is falling fast because that’s what threads that have no value do. That’s on you.

Maybe you can piggyback one of the bigger threads already on this topic.

Ignorance.

Well, good thing I have you to bump my thread then!

Darkobra.6439:

Yeah, the good ones stay at the top while the bad ones fall fast.

How is this suggestion bad? Are you another frustrated PVT hero?

Threads move quickly.

Xae Isareth.1364:

Razor.6392:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Pure ferocity gear. Scariest thing in PvP ever. If they don’t crit, nothing happens but if they do, gg.

It would just be back to pre-nerf… actually I believe it would be a little lower still.

Nothing too scary tbh.

Im kidding but, it’d be quite funny if they made a set with 15000 fero. Completely silly but would be hilarious to see.

that would be 100% crit damage, basically what I had pre nerf.

Some people had even 120% though :/

Xae Isareth.1364:

Pure ferocity gear. Scariest thing in PvP ever. If they don’t crit, nothing happens but if they do, gg.

It would just be back to pre-nerf… actually I believe it would be a little lower still.

Nothing too scary tbh.

As a proud owner of a full ascended zerker set I was sad and mad about the nerfs.

But then it hit me.

Ferocity is now an actual stat right? So create a new stat set that uses it as a primary stat! Same with foods. We need foods that have Ferocity as the primary stat.

Oh and give a 1 time choice to anyone with a Berserker ascended item (trinket / armor / weapon) to switch to this new Ferocity-primary stat set. (Fero Power Prec) or to stay as they are

Now no one will be sad or mad!

Alternatively you can just lower the ferocity to crit damage conversion to 12 from 15 to get 1% crit dmg, that would be easier.

I necessarily must use p/p though otherwise how am I gonna interrupt them? (#4)

I wanna use and abuse condis since that’s what everyone is doing but I have an issue:

Which weapon sets should I use?

P/P and P/D are the obvious choice but is it okay to give up on short bow’s mobility? For all the condi thieves out there, what do you do about your limited mobility in combat / chasing ability?

Traits would be 2/0/4/2/6

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, people just put way too much stock into what a rank means. A lot of people never realized that just because you played a ton of PvP games doesn’t mean you’re a pro and just because you don’t spend every waking hour in PvP doesn’t mean you’re a scrub.

It does tho

Any explanation?

I mean, I don’t think this was overlooked. Way to purposefully hide something that was implemented as a QoL feature a few months back!

The tears of the facerolling condi heroes are incredibly satisfying lol.

Learn to adapt.

Looks like a l2p issue to me.

I run glassy on spvp and I’ve never been hit that hard. If a 1 trick pony downs you like that it’s okay, the next time you will look out for him and deny his only fighting strategy, and then win.

Billionaire.5607:

T raw.4658:

A single trait should not counter an elite skill

A bug that needs to be fixed IMHO

Elite skills aren’t godmode utilities, they can be stopped if you use the right counter. Necro you can steal their stability on lich form, plague form and cc em, guardians you can cc them so they can’t use their tomes, mind you there are a few elites you can’t counter, but they are short and mostly work as a clutch without a HUGE difference in changing a fight. The above examples are only a few I can think of off the top of my head.

>supply crate
>no huge difference in changing a fight

Cogbyrn.7283:

Razor.6392:

I’ll take the time to post since you have no idea of how balancing works.

…

I don’t think the 8% nerf makes up for the 30% nerf in WvW environments. Don’t you think so?

You must have missed all of the posts from several people, including myself, that do the actual math and demonstrate that the 30% number is more like 12%.

If you want to come at me, at least spend 60 seconds doing a bit of math before leaping to your incorrect conclusions.

Also, I get it. If you reduce the amount of potential damage by more than the amount of HP/s, you inadvertently buff HP/s. Except direct damage/crit builds aren’t the only damaging builds. HS takes the 8% hit against condition builds, still.

And the numbers you presented basically everywhere are so blown out of proportion in support of sustain that it’s difficult for me to get what you’re saying from what you’re saying. I already know how changes interact. When you say damage loses 30% effectiveness and a Warrior tank can have 1500 HP/s sustained, I want nothing more than to just correct you for being so skewed. Especially when your estimate for damage is completely reasonable.

I don’t know, I feel like I was the only one who never had much of an issue against Healing Signet anyway,

12% over how much time though? For all the PVT keyboard warriors bringing up the non-crit hits to the table.

Because a % damage reduction can be perceived accurately when you take into account the time it took to kill somebody. A 5 seconds five-hit 100-0 burst won’t take an extra 0.5 seconds after this nerf, I can tell you that much. Also the more precision the person has, the more obvious the reduction is. What about those that have Assassin stats with almost 90% crit chance with fury? Is it also a “10% nerf” for them?

There are many factors in the table, and I find it laughable how so many people shield themselves with the “non crit hits” argument.

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Burr: Not to be “that guy”, but I feel like the last build that needed help from a “fun” counter-play perspective is Skull Crack -> 100B. But you’re right, that’s really the build that was assisted most.

@Xilllix: I’ve seen plenty of really good Eles recently that do anything but run around helplessly before dying. Perhaps you’re doing something wrong?

Fungalfoot.7213:

Thanks to the zerker and poison nerfs they’ve also made healing signet even more potent.

I think it’s safe to say they have no idea what the kitten they’re doing.

They made HS even more potent by dropping its effectiveness by 8%.

And which poison nerfs? Hilariously, you’re talking about Choking Gas on Thief’s shortbow and Engi’s Poison Grenade, which reduced the poison per pulse of each from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.

I’ll take “Using Exaggerations Out of Context” for $1000, Alex.

I’ll take the time to post since you have no idea of how balancing works.

Crit damage nerfs -> People do less damage
People doing less damage -> Sustain and Effective HP becomes higher.

Just because it’s not explicitly stated in the notes doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Changes of this caliber usually have a lot of indirect consequences that while they might seem hard to notice, they’re significant at the same time.

I don’t think the 8% nerf makes up for the 30% nerf in WvW environments. Don’t you think so?

An example so you can understand.

Say a tanky class has 30000 hp and regenerates 30000 hp every 20 seconds. And a bursty class can do 30000 hp damage in 18 seconds on average.

Now the bursty class can only do 21000 damage in 18 seconds, while the tanky class still has the hp value (30000) and damage mitigation untouched, and now regenerates 27600 hp down from 30000. Of course the numbers change but you get the general idea.

It is much harder to reliably outlast any kind of sustain and especially beat tanky builds. Of course it goes the same way against power enemy builds too because they also do less damage, but what happens when you face a condi guy…? I digress, but you can see how much this indirect change affects balance in a negative way. It is bigger than you can imagine.

Do you guys seriously think it works that way? If prepatch a dungeon clear was 20 min zerk 30 min anything, and new patch it’s 23 min zerk and 30 min anything, I will still take 23 min. Hell, now I won’t tolerate ANYTHING but zerk since it might increase the already longer timers.

Personally I’m never joining a non zerk party again and I will ask for gear ping every. single. time.

I won’t uninstall because one day I’ll come back and reinstalling is a pain. But I will certainly not play anymore.

10 Fero per 1% crit damage or riot.