Guild Wars 2

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Thief-Bugs-10-Updated-July-24/first#post4234630

Its on there

I think this critical bug would get more visibility if it has an entire thread addressed to it instead of a huge list (in which it’s #8 or so) that most likely will never be fixed over the course of 1 single patch.

Anyway, here’s hoping that ANet can fix this in this patch. It’s been 1 month now… a little pathetic but hey, I’ve seen worse.

There needs to be both Revealed and Detected.

Let the actual Revealed debuff only popup when you exit SR early or after you strike from stealth.

Revealed only exists as a penalty so a thief can’t chain stealth attacks indefinitely (backstab, tactical strike, etc), because that would lack any sort of counterplay (I’m aware revealed didn’t exist around release days). Revealed was not designed to avoid chain stealthing without attacking, so it’s not meant to work against it, otherwise you would always get this debuff when exiting stealth everytime, whether you attack somebody or not.

So I think it would be great to implement a different mechanic like Detected.

Detected would work like, you’re still stealth (therefore gaining access to all the traits, skills and damage associated with it) but people can see you if they use X ability on you (your name and your character shape outline).

This would fix everything, and it would be safer to add more of these mechanics to other classes. Revealed is just crippling and a terrible excuse for balance, and can’t be implemented as a proper “counter” because it’s way more powerful than that. These changes are on par with not letting a mesmer create clones for 6 seconds, or not letting an elementalist switch attunements for 6 seconds. Also, 6 seconds is a very long time. People die all the time because a CC ability lasted 1 second too long.

Horrible.

Ok so let me get this straight OP. Your signature says you’re from DnT, now I don’t know much about the “hardcore pve scene”, but I believe those guys are known for speedclearing stuff extremely efficiently and quick (correct me if I’m wrong).

Why would you want to remove FGS 4?

Are other guilds catching up to your “records” by using this “cheese” perhaps?
Do you enjoy longer PvE fights?
Or maybe you guys never run elementalists, so you feel you’re at a disadvantage?

I honestly don’t understand why would you care.

Sorry but they already dealt with Fiery Rush recently. More would have been done if they considered this ability to be that “broken”.

:( sad day for you.

Is this a troll thread? a warrior complaining? XD

1. Burning speed’s fire trail is harder to aim, and doesn’t do nearly as much damage as the elite one afaik.

2. You do realize that Fiery Rush was “fixed” by simply cancelling the ability when used in conjunction with Lightning Flash? To use the same procedure on Burning speed would nerf eles greatly.

Synosius.9876:

I been playing an engi, seems stealth is just buggy all around right now. Engi stealth usually reveals right away. I see thief trying to refuge and then being revealed right after and standing there dumbfounded.

Im starting to get the feeling this issue isnt even on the agenda for fix.

Apparently engis get auto revealed when combined with acidic elixirs trait.

kinda funny bug too… that trait is almost equally as unpopular, and has been bugged forever lol.

…getting a bad feeling about this…

silentnight warrior.2714:

makku.2508:

silentnight warrior.2714:

So you were saying that without eviscerate that warrior could not win against you. But it was ok for you to win against him.
Right….
And even with eviscerate you win some and lose some…

You need to work on your reading comprehension.

What i didn´t understand here?

The fact that BOTH had ways to deal with each others damage, BOTH win some fights, BOTH had ways / skills to beat the other one.
And from your post its easy o see that your frustation is with eviscerate so i belive you lose some fight because of it.
So what i didn’t understant?

The fact that the ele, and any other class, has to severely outplay a warrior while landing multiple of their hardest hitting skills, while warrior only has to hit 1-2 successful combos to win?

I think that’s what you didn’t “understant”

You should look up what risk / reward means.

Edit: And by the way, to whoever is saying to “kite” them, how do you do that? Whenever I go against an axe warrior on my ele he’s always right next to me mashing 1 mindlessly. I try to chill, cripple and even immob with earth 3 but those expire so quick it’s almost laughable. The cone skills have a hard time landing because the pro warrior is always right next to me at all times spamming 1.

Paavotar.3971:

Razor.6392:

….

Say, if every class has by default 10 points that are spread between mobility, durability, damage and cc warrior would get 15.

….

Warrior
Mob: xxxx
Dura: xxxx
Dmg: xxxx
CC: xxx

It’s that bad.

Can you give me that build for warrior that has excellent mobility, excellent durability, excellent damage and very good CC, please? Because I have yet to witness such build myself yet.

Also, this topic was about the evisicrate, not how fast warrior can move with GS.

Gumster of General Underworld Mayhem [GuM]
Mouggari – Warrior – Candy cane Avenger

Warrior is overpowered. Anyone that has a remote idea of game balance knows this.

Not only are they the most forgiving class to play, which allows them to perform all sorts of mistakes while still having plenty of chances to kill their enemies with ease (or just run away with impunity), but they’re also extremely strong in every single aspect of this game, from pve to pvp and a nice chunk of wvw too.

Now that seems like a balanced and perfectly viable class… except that is the definition of overpowered. When you have a class that can do almost everything with 0 weaknesses, while even being as good as other professions in their signature strengths (mobility, sustain, cc, etc), you have a huge problem.

The way I see it… is that usually, in pvp, classes allow little room for mistake (some more than others), and then we have warriors. A class that was basically designed with the mindset of giving their users all the help and assistance in their imminent, constant and unavoidable misplays. It’s like having ANet tell me “Here, take these tools, because you ARE going to get outplayed for various reasons that I cannot disclose. So outplay their carefully planned maneuvers with these instant press-to-win buttons!”. I wouldn’t be able to ever play this class and sleep well at night.

The risk / reward tradeoff is broken for this one. It has been for a very long time.

Say, if every class has by default 10 points that are spread between mobility, durability, damage and cc warrior would get 15.

Example:
Thief
Mob: xxxx
Dura: x
Dmg: xxxx
CC: x

Ele (d/d)
Mob: xx
Dura: xxx
Dmg: xx
CC: xx

Warrior
Mob: xxxx
Dura: xxxx
Dmg: xxxx
CC: xxx

It’s that bad.

It’s gonna be a month soon.

Gotta love taking HOURS UPON HOURS to get full ascended for my thief, just to have him kitten by a bug that can’t even be fixed quickly.

Really loving it!

Synosius.9876:

Im still willing to believe this issue hasnt been fixed yet because of all the new living story content (which is great btw) and the DDoS kitten s and this is just a minor issue to the whole game.

Yeah… I’m doing fine but I would be doing much better in wvw if this bug was fixed.

ele is very fun. I don’t see how other classes can top it.

highest pve damage, and has multiple uses for wvw or pvp in general.

about the “lot of effort”… well, I think it is rewarding. even if some other class might perhaps perform a certain role with less effort and semi afk while mashing the same button, I still would choose to play my elementalist in any scenario.

in 2 years, the only classes that I bothered leveling to 80 are ele, thief and engi (in that order). warrior, guardian, necro, ranger, and other classes that allow you to rely on your dog to take over temporarily while you gotta do something… never interested me in the slightest.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Well you can try to see that question from the point of view of other professions.
What is the cooldown of stealth? Its way lower than 10 seconds. Why did ANet do that? Why they let one of the biggest offensive/defensive mechanism have that short cooldown?
Because the professions who use them need them and their utilities/skills work around that mechanism (along others).
Same with mesmers, what is the cooldown for creating ilusions? The mesmers need their ilusions and their skills/utilities work around that mechanism.
Warriors without burst skills would lack Control or damage in their weapon skills. If the cooldown of burst skills is increased then warrior weapons skills needed to be changed a little to face that change.

Having such low cooldown on abilities trivializes the possibility of misusing them.

Missed your 9k damage eviscerate? It’s ok, you can try again in 8~ seconds.

Thieves require a previous setup and they don’t have stuns on demand or 24k vitality :|

crunchyraisin.6054:

step 1….play warrior….step 2 understand warrior……step 3 give feedback.

Alternatively, cut a hole in a box.

Comparing warrior bursts to ele skills like firegrab is not logical. Ele is a different profession with a different set of strengths and weaknesses.

It should be pointed out that most of these skills are extremely dodgeable with large slow animations. All of them can also be blocked or blinded. Most(not all) of these skills are dps decreases…and stability and stun breakers exist.

Arc’s idea….I kinda like it. It would need to be adjusted though. Some bursts do really well at stage one..

Your bias is showing. You provide 0 logical or valuable input to this discussion.

Every single ability can be dodged, every single ability can be blinded (hi berserker stance), 99% abilities can be blocked.

Stability and stun breakers do exist, but they don’t have 10 seconds cooldowns.

You fail to explain why it’s fine for warriors to have these abilities on <10 seconds cooldowns.

I use surge to open, or to tag people as I’m approaching a fight (you can start casting surge even while out of range). It’s also a great nuke from afar (how many ways do you have to burst people fleeing, when using a staff? spam the ever so reliable fireballs?)

never in middle of a fight.

when used against me, it kinda throws me off to know when exactly to dodge, even though I’ve played ele for so long…

Quakeman.9378:

Are you zerging or mainly roaming?

roam of course, I’ll keep my zerk trinkets to staff zerg.

this is for d/d

My armor is zerk ascended. I was annoyed for a long time because I finished it right before they introduced ferocity, but then I simply concluded that my ele would be the pve guy in my account.

I still miss doing wvw tho, and zerk won’t cut it for d/d!

There is absolutely no way I’m making another ascended set, so all that’s left to change are my trinkets (ascended zerk, some are the valk mix)

Would it be best to get Knight’s, Cavalier (32% crit chance) or Celestial? (Cavalier was easiest to calculate because I only had to remove my trinkets)

Which one would you guys recommend? My current crit chance is 51% with food, and 201% crit damage. (00266)

Jerus.4350:

Razor.6392:

Rising Dusk.2408:

You’re comparing apples to oranges here. Rush is on a Warrior, and RtL is on an Elementalist. ANet felt that the Elementalist’s versatility in X/D coupled with its low cooldown escape was too much, so they nerfed RtL, but apparently don’t feel that way about a Warrior for whatever reason. They’re different classes, and different classes do not need equality in all similar skills to be balanced next to each other.

I don’t think Rush is too strong personally. I think the bigger culprit is Savage Leap myself.

What most people despised about facing elementalists, is that even if they were losing, nothing stopped them from simply resetting the fight with complete impunity through RtL usage.

I don’t see how this is any different, taking also into consideration how warriors’ sustain isn’t that far off when compared to an ele’s.

I agree with RisingDusk in principle, not every ability needs the same balancing as different professions need different things.

I do think you hit it right on the head. Why are warriors/thieves complained about so much? Because you fight them, and if you start to win they run away and wait for their cooldowns and then come back. It’s beyond annoying.

Of course that is the thief, that’s why they’re typically one of the “OP” classes in any game.

Warriors though, I just can’t say I’ve seen them being able to run away being a motif. The way I see it in GW2 the warrior is Sir Robin, bravely running away…

I’m not sure I want warriors nerfed because being able to dash across zones makes the PVE side much nicer, but god, all these cowardly PVP warriors sure are annoying.

Lmfao, indeed. It must come from the fact that most people play warrior perhaps.

I just want some fairness. Thieves getting away? well, they’re extremely squishy at least. Eles getting away, while being a healing / boon powerhouse was maybe a bit dumb (despite being even more squishy than a thief).

But warriors doing the same? That’s just absurd. Let warriors be known for their high vitality, cc, armor, base damage and sustain :^) but don’t add mobility on top of that.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You’re comparing apples to oranges here. Rush is on a Warrior, and RtL is on an Elementalist. ANet felt that the Elementalist’s versatility in X/D coupled with its low cooldown escape was too much, so they nerfed RtL, but apparently don’t feel that way about a Warrior for whatever reason. They’re different classes, and different classes do not need equality in all similar skills to be balanced next to each other.

I don’t think Rush is too strong personally. I think the bigger culprit is Savage Leap myself.

What most people despised about facing elementalists, is that even if they were losing, nothing stopped them from simply resetting the fight with complete impunity through RtL usage.

I don’t see how this is any different, taking also into consideration how warriors’ sustain isn’t that far off when compared to an ele’s.

Yeah, that too. They have individual cooldowns. Kind of mind blowing…

I want a proper discussion on these please.

Most of them are excellent abilities that can change the outcome of a battle significantly.

I don’t play warrior (never have), but I’ll proceed to list what they do based on my personal knowledge:
Arcing slice (greatsword): Melee hit that gives fury, by far one of the worst out there.
Earthshaker (hammer): Aoe stun with respectable damage (also a blast fin. didn’t know that).
Skull cracker (mace): Single target, long duration stun.
Eviscerate (axe): Single target, very high damage nuke with a small gap closing leap.
Combustive shot (LB): Fire field, lasts a long time.
Kill shot (rifle): ranged extremely high damage nuke with a channel.

These are all fine on their own. But what I can’t understand is why these very powerful abilities are allowed to have cooldowns equal to 10 seconds.

Isn’t that a bit too short, considering that you can reduce the cd even lower?

Someone please try to explain the reasoning behind this, and why warriors need to have these bonus abilities on such a short CD.

Sounds like QQ but I actually want insight from warrior players and everyone else.

Carighan.6758:

I still think a better (and global!) fix would be to make all non-skillshot and hence targeted movement skills fail if you lack either of:

• A selected target.
• Range to actually reach that target with the skill.

Thieves indirect (and massive) buff.

Under the easy principle that a heavy class should not be anywhere near top 3 of the most mobile, this skill should be nerfed.

Can’t reduce the range, because some NPC’s also use it.

So increase the cooldown to 30 seconds, with no other conditions involved because it’s actually affected by cripple and such (not like it matters with dogged march) and because the skill almost never hits and it’s extremely easy to dodge.

30 seconds at all times wouldn’t be too harsh imo…

penelopehannibal.8947:

being able to do damage and still hide would not be a good thing

Do you realize how Cloak and Dagger works? I don’t think you do, because you just described it.

D/P 5+2 with a nearby target will also inflict damage with heartseeker, while still stealthing.

And yes I’m kinda angry! It’s been 2 weeks now, and I can’t use my thief the way I’m supposed to.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Razor.6392:

@penelope, please… stay away from topics you cannot comprehend. I’m trying to be nice here.

Erm.. can you explain this bash at me for giving my opinion? I said in my opinion I think it’s better this way. How was that not trying to be nice?

How is it better that way…? barely anyone use this trait, why would you choose to screw them over?

Tell me better ways to stealth and burst as a p/p thief and I’ll gladly drop using hidden thief.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Short term, just don’t use mug? I don’t use hidden thief trait. We know why the problem now exists, though, and I’d like to think they are aware of it, especially if, you know, this has been reported.

I’m still trying to figure out why I’ve been randomly revealed in fights lately, and no, no ranger with sic’em or stealth trap. I’m assuming lag with the server.

I did drop mug at first, got another 2 points in SA or CS… but it’s not the same. I cannot get a good offense / defense trait with 2 points in any trait line.

Losing 2000 hp regen / 2000 damage every 21 seconds on top of the poison application is huge.

@penelope, please… stay away from topics you cannot comprehend. I’m trying to be nice here.

I’ve had to drop my thief aswell for the time being. It’s kinda heartbreaking because I want to use my thief (just finished full asc on it too) but I can’t with this bug.

Tried different builds but they just aren’t my cup of tea. My ping is too high to reliably use CnD.

Sometimes people get stuck, it’s almost normal by now. You can fix it by using a movement spell.

Sucks if you’re a necro though…

Ohh I must add, to not bother testing anything else.

I was using bountiful theft and sleight of hand.

Sorry but working as intended.

Synosius.9876:

another build, still no fix

I’m starting to lose hope lol.

lobsterisme.6032:

I really think this was intentional. Any damage you apply should reveal you. Idk it’s kind of a gray area because both effects are applied at the same time by stealing.

Someone said in the thief forums that mug+hidden thief interaction was actually patched in the past so they could work together, so it’s obviously not intended.

Later on I’ll look for the specific patch notes.

Brutality.6395:

I’ve never combined these. Usually when i use Steal with ‘Hidden Thief’ i hit my sheath weapon bind because something always manages to screw me over. Especially Pistol main hand.
Edit: To clarify, Sheathing your weapon will cancel some abilities and stop auto attacks

Try it yourself. Maybe it will be a temporary solution.

Otherwise: Bump!

doesn’t seem to help…

Synosius.9876:

I feel so betrayed
I think the change is actually on hidden thief, it seems to be not stealthing immediately and instead taking a fraction of a second longer or have a cast time now.

Steal is what was changed. IMO steal now takes a slightly longer time to do damage (analyzing the enemies position and if he’s reachable) so the damage from mug was slowed, and this caused the damage to be inflicted after hidden thief takes effect, resulting in an instant reveal.

Mug is a trait used universally by pretty much every thief. I doubt this is intended, a must-have trait like Mug cannot make a Master tier trait completely worthless like this…

It involves two traits:

Deadly arts’ Mug (III) – Inflict damage and heal for a certain amount when you steal.

and

Shadow arts’ Hidden Thief (VIII) – Stealth for 3 seconds when you steal.

Pre-patch using both traits together would stealth you when stealing as it normally should. But now the damage that Mug inflicts automatically de-stealths you after you steal (applying the revealed debuff).

I believe this isn’t intended… I really hope it’s not.

Please fix it. My build relies on these 2 traits together to work.

My theory is that the recent Steal bugfix has added a delay on the damage / stealing item component to verify if the target is reachable, and doing this has set the damage after the stealth from hidden thief starts, when they used to start at the same time before. Therefore you get instantly revealed because you’re doing damage while stealthed, even if it is 0.1 seconds too late.

Please delay Hidden thief’s stealth application slightly (less than 0.5s) if needed, but fix this…

Dakota.4591:

It’s been a bug with Bewildering Ambush since BA first came out.

Ah I never used hidden thief along with BA… mostly used for cnd + steal so hidden thief wasnt needed…

Wow, then it will most likely never get fixed? unbelievable. Seriously this is incredibly stupid.

I can just opt out of mug but that not only reduces my damage but also my healing (since I recovered 2k health every 21 seconds), therefore making me much weaker.

Speechless. I really hope for a hotfix.

Splatter Paw.7238:

I thought thats how it always worked? I may be wrong though i never use hidden thief much at all.

No.

Pre-patch you could mug and stealth all in 1 move. It doesn’t make sense to have 2 traits that counter each other when used simultaneously.

Vooriden.3927:

Hello,
I just posted about this as well, before the patch it worked now it messed up, I hope anet will fix this thing again cause my strategy in based on this combo

Did you post in bugs or where? I really hope this gets hotfixed, otherwise it’s an unbelievably HUGE nerf for my playstyle.

Edit: PLEASE POST HERE: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Thief-New-trait-BUG-Please-hotfix/first#post4164895

It involves two traits:

Deadly arts’ Mug (III) – Inflict damage and heal for a certain amount when you steal.

and

Shadow arts’ Hidden Thief (VIII) – Stealth for 3 seconds when you steal.

Pre-patch using both traits together would stealth when stealing you as it normally should. But now the damage that Mug inflicts automatically de-stealths you after you steal (applying the revealed debuff).

I believe this isn’t intended… I really hope it’s not.

Please fix it. My build relies on these 2 traits together to work.

2 weeks before the patch because you knew that they were getting inevitably nerfed sooner or later.

Feels GOOD!

In PVE

I’m 99% sure it’s staff, but some guy yesterday was really convinced that fresh air s/d had superior damage.

S/D has nice burst (fire -> air), but it has nothing in between until fire is back up. Fresh air burst alone doesn’t do enough damage on its own and if you go 6/6/x/x/x your attunement recharge rate is so low that you can’t really rotate water / earth that often to get air’s CD recharged regularly. Not to mention scepter’s very limited aoe capabilities.

So which one is it according to you guys?

Another thief complaint thread?

Okay, let’s make a comprehensible thread since the other one leads people to believe that we’re complaining about the lack of weapon swap.

The issue is very simple:

Eles and engis only have access to 2 sigils, while other classes have access to 4.

This didn’t matter when you could always equip / unequip a weapon with a stackable sigil (out of combat) without losing the stackable sigil stacks. But as of the April 15th patch, you lose any stacks when unequipping the weapon with the bloodlust / perception / corruption, etc sigil.

That’s why it’s unfair.

You would still cancel it, but you’d fire a little more before doing so.

I cannot think of a situation where you’d need to cancel so quickly that it couldn’t wait until the dodge roll is finished.

Another idea is reducing the cast time to 1.5 seconds from 1.75 while not touching the damage.

babazhook.6805:

Unload is just a cool skill in the p/p set. The look/ the feel is just fun. Of all the sets this one needs the most tweaks. I like the idea of an evade frame/flip.

Vital shot I would like to see have an increased range. I see Vital shot as being a set and aim type shot where as unload a shorter ranged flurry of bullets.

Maybe drop ini cost on #2 by one for the immob. People will not spam it as they risk using the INI needed for unload, but would use it more often. In fact that lower ini cost on body shot might make unload more attractive even without changes to unload. IE body shot then get that long unload chain off. This would in fact give different sorts of benefits to those that have longer condition durations having chosen that over more ferocity.

One might also consider adding a percent change weakness added on an unload.

Up vital shot range to 1100 and keep it the same damage and I think it fine.

Can’t quite do it because P/D exists.

P/D doesn’t care about wasting all their ini. Shadow shot is just a bonus for them.

Normally a dodge would 100% interrupt any channel like unload, what I’m proposing is that unload’s channel isn’t broken until at least 50% of the dodge roll animation is gone.

It’s quite simple.

Allow Unload to keep firing 50% into a dodge roll.

Looks sick, helps with the 1.75 seconds long cast and adds more versatility to p/p.

ANet pls.

Nothing here still.

first time i see a wall of text composed of q’s

can’t wait for taimi to become a murderous little thing

Does anybody know how long it takes for say, grenth, to start again in the same megaserver?

1, 2, 3 hrs maybe? or is it completely random?