I will admit, I was scepticle of an entire server RP’ing. I thought people were exaggerating……..my god was I wrong. Bravo to you guys, bravo.
Coming from CoX’s RP server, I’m a little used to it. It is nice to walk into the hunting lodge or somesuch and find people there RPing away. All I need now is just to build up my courage to join in!
It’s easy you just…well….go in!
And watch your spelling :p
It just hit me. While they are changing stealth on 26th, will they also add mobility to Thieves in the same patch, or was it just something they were thinking about doing in the future?
something that will possibly happen, at some point in the future, maybe.
Oh Authority, I don’t know why I did’nt clear this up sooner, by my D/D build isnt glass cannon 10/30/30/0/0…whoopsies. Sorry if any out there got snapped in half
Hahah. Really one of the best RP server’s I’ve been on in my MMO career. If I emote after an event, I almost always get a response from another RPer and all of a sudden it ain’t about whackin’ those monsters anymore.
It’s about ze art of makin’ stuffs up!
Yes sir, I come from a long line of banana-cream pie salesman. I came here to save my bananas.
What server? I might have fun as well! Haven’t RPed since UO pre-aos
Hahah. Really one of the best RP server’s I’ve been on in my MMO career. If I emote after an event, I almost always get a response from another RPer and all of a sudden it ain’t about whackin’ those monsters anymore.
It’s about ze art of makin’ stuffs up!
Yes sir, I come from a long line of banana-cream pie salesman. I came here to save my bananas.
Tell me about it, I want to know how this all started.
I actually like this idea. Reminds me of Dark Souls where even if you had a shield up, certain weapons, like the katana that werent as “strong” as bigger weapons like a zweihander, could still bypass some shield protection for even a percentage of their damage. I imagine the same analogy here. Thieves aren’t as “strong” as a warrior but they are sneakier, quicker, and can therefore be deadlier.
P at the end of one word, iss at the start of the next. I have to wonder if carefully disguised cursing would not be better than the monster they’ve created to fight it.
If their goal was to teach everyone new and obscure profanities, it certainly succeeds in that.
Another tip for D/D backstabbers, against rangers. genreally, pf course, you want to get behind them. they will try to keep thier distance so cloak and dagger off of the pet and use gap closers and/or run up to them to get in melee range.
for staff necromancers(these guys can be rough if you don’t know what you are doing) fight them in the most general means i.e CnD backstab since thats what this build does best :p. Evade into their marks to not only break the marks but take no dmg in the process. If they go into plague form, fight them at a range, staying up close will raise your medical bill. Preferably shortbow.
Either way it’s checkmate. On hand they are listening, on the other you were right and Anet should hear us out. ANET us thieves are getting kicked instead of kisses
And thus you reveal your ignorance once again, professions have differences if you want to have one of the potentially best bursts that isn’t limited by immediate cooldowns you roll thief, if you don’t then you don’t.
Complaining that your ranger isn’t a thief and that your incapable of using it to its maximum potential at what ITS good at then its YOUR fault.
professions are different? you don’t say? different shouldn’t equal totally unbalanced. i’m not complaining that my ranger isn’t a thief (where are you getting this from?), i’m complaining that the thief can full GC and do hit 3x as hard as a ranger with a skill that can be spammed (222222) and still have stealth every few seconds.
thieves have absolutely nothing to worry about when they run GC, unlike every other class. rangers have absolutely no defense in GC and they don’t even get heavy DPS to compensate for the risks.
if you think that is fine you’re oblivious. rangers should not be forced to run bunker merely to survive a few seconds longer when thieves can parade around with heavy rewards and 0 risk.
GC thieves do have something to worry about. Im not even glasscannon if I get the first hit, ( I have a special way to deal with glasscannons) then they are done. No questions asked. A guardians aegis does a kitten good job of preventing a bv steal bs rotation as well. And let’s not forget our two favorite letters: C and C.
I wouldn’t argue with vesper, he rolls a greatsword glass cannon ranger! wooo!
Funny thing is the bits of the thief that he complains about are the ones that aren’t going to get effected, its all the other thieves that will feel it because Anet doesn’t know how to fix small issues without wide nerfs
Ok well from a D/D backstabbers P.O.V. To fight mesmers, use CnD on their clones to to work your way to the real one, assuming you know where the real one is. Alternatively, use those 3 seconds to find the real one, then use the step above. Patience is key to a non glasscannon baskstab build. OF COURSE WITH THE NEXT PATCH this will require some tweaking and sorry, I have trouble with D/D bunker eles. Whenever I am about to win they RLT to the other side of the map
How do you start off against a bunker ele? Do you know the build that mesmers generally use?
The mesmers im referring to are the ones that use they clones to confuse you while they hide behind their army (dont know the actual build) Glasscannon mesmers are a little trickiersicne their clones are made to burst you down so finding ones to CnD off of is a bit difficult. So for a glass cannon mes ( if I know they are gc) I open up with B venom steal CnD backstab and that brings them down before they realize their true potential. As for bunker eles, For an elite I recommend TG since that adds extra support albeit for a short time. The reason bunker classes are a thief’s worst nightmare is because they can outlast us for much longer periods of time. So I recommend attacking from behind at the start, DO NOT use BV and steal to open up, they not only will survive it, but will heal (which the seem to do every 2 seconds-_-) and now you are down two utilities. BUT if you are using BV and you get them down to low health, you can use that plus steal to finish them off once and for all. <—- personal exp
Edit: also for mesmers, dodge forward not away when it comes to phantasms and for ele -ahem- DODGE ALOT but no reckless dodging, that stuff gets you killed
-cough- this is when a sword use tells us what they do in this scenario-cough-
This stealth nerf is absolutely nothing. Heaven forbid you actually have to think about anything other than damage stats on your thief. The ONLY people impacted this are the ones that abused stealth to begin with. Otherwise those of us that didn’t abuse stealth won’t really notice it. I run with blinding power, shadow refuge and even C&D some myself and I know it won’t be an issue. I already space my stealths out, I don’t want to be that perma-stealth abusing thief that has zero skill outside stealth. Of course I can see why those that do abuse it are upset, now they need to actually learn to play the class and won’t see huge numbers because they will have to pick up some defense.
Yea but you have to keep in mind… the stealth line is what controls a thieves condition removal, stun breaks, buffs, and heals. So basically, if a thief uses cnd comes out of it and gets hit by oooh i dont know… how about 3 ranger traps where the ranger has condition damage trait of oooh… 1.2k… so the trap ticks a very nice amount of dmg… well the thief now has to wait 3 seconds for their Hide In Shadows to be of use even though it isnt on cooldown… wow yea that makes lots of sense. Lets keep a Ranger from using Healing Spring for an additional 3 seconds past the cooldown of the ability just because one of their trait line abilities gave them regen… wow the fire that would be fueled then.
only a thief could complain that he has to be visible for an extra 3 seconds while dishing out 7k heartseekers and 9k backstabs!
if you die in that 3 seconds, you’re unpseakably awful.
Not every thief deals that much damage with those two attacks. Those thieves are what we like to call Glasscannons if they do that much. And he’s complaing since we get punished now for using our heal or when our Last refuge trait kicks in, which he has every right to.
sure, just like i have a right to complain that i only won 5 million in the lottery instead of 20 million, but the only ones who care are the other lotto winners. everyone else just thinks you’re greedy.
it’s called balance, and thieves need it.
Balance is also subjective. I have run into many players who keep calm when I go stealth and time there evades and swings making it so that stealth for me would become a momentum breaker rather than a chance to open on them. I’ve said this before, non-thieves want “fair” fights and you guys don’t even understand the term fair. Fair implies that both sides have an equal chance of succeeding. So even if looking at stats and skills, the thief, wins, its considered unfair. Only when you win will you consider fighting thieves to be fair.
I don t understand what is the problem with not being able to identity a player profession in wvw…if its an enemy no matter what their profession you are going to have to fight them. Why woudl the look of your stuff have ANY effect or incidence on combat?
This would tell you how to initiate the fight. Many classes (I’m a thief) I would stroll in from varying directions. However if that someone is a thief, I know that Basilisk venom and steal are going to be my ticket into that fight.
This stealth nerf is absolutely nothing. Heaven forbid you actually have to think about anything other than damage stats on your thief. The ONLY people impacted this are the ones that abused stealth to begin with. Otherwise those of us that didn’t abuse stealth won’t really notice it. I run with blinding power, shadow refuge and even C&D some myself and I know it won’t be an issue. I already space my stealths out, I don’t want to be that perma-stealth abusing thief that has zero skill outside stealth. Of course I can see why those that do abuse it are upset, now they need to actually learn to play the class and won’t see huge numbers because they will have to pick up some defense.
Yea but you have to keep in mind… the stealth line is what controls a thieves condition removal, stun breaks, buffs, and heals. So basically, if a thief uses cnd comes out of it and gets hit by oooh i dont know… how about 3 ranger traps where the ranger has condition damage trait of oooh… 1.2k… so the trap ticks a very nice amount of dmg… well the thief now has to wait 3 seconds for their Hide In Shadows to be of use even though it isnt on cooldown… wow yea that makes lots of sense. Lets keep a Ranger from using Healing Spring for an additional 3 seconds past the cooldown of the ability just because one of their trait line abilities gave them regen… wow the fire that would be fueled then.
only a thief could complain that he has to be visible for an extra 3 seconds while dishing out 7k heartseekers and 9k backstabs!
if you die in that 3 seconds, you’re unpseakably awful.
Not every thief deals that much damage with those two attacks. Those thieves are what we like to call Glasscannons if they do that much. And he’s complaing since we get punished now for using our heal or when our Last refuge trait kicks in, or when descent into shadows kicks in which he has every right to.
Ok well from a D/D backstabbers P.O.V. To fight mesmers, use CnD on their clones to to work your way to the real one, assuming you know where the real one is. Alternatively, use those 3 seconds to find the real one, then use the step above. Patience is key to a non glasscannon baskstab build. OF COURSE WITH THE NEXT PATCH this will require some tweaking and sorry, I have trouble with D/D bunker eles. Whenever I am about to win they RLT to the other side of the map
Do you just want bunker ele or multiple classes? Irregardless I am interested in this thread, I hope people put suggestions for multiple thief builds instead of “Lol 4 warrurs use infiltrt0urs strike with sord” What if I dont use the sword?
This was a major concern almost immediately when I heard about the upcoming nerf. This trait is going to become even more annoying. Anet probably doesn’t keep these things in mind though and are too busy rushing to calm the angry pitchfork mobs trying to lynch us with every nerf idea imaginable.
I mean I play as a Shadow Arts thief, wouldnt be so bad if it was at the end. But no, its at the very beginning.
I play a thief myself and I honestly don’t see what all the fuss is about.
Ok, the Revealed buff on exiting stealth is going to make some traits a bit ickier, such as Last Refuge.
That’s one of the major things, it’s further restricting builds by making traits (That currently aren’t too great) even worse, including a 5 point minor trait that is forced upon anyone who goes into the stealth line.
It also forces the basic heal – Hide in Shadows – make you to become vulnerable for 3 seconds when using it (While currently, if you don’t attack while in the stealth you are free to re-stealth after it fades)
But majority of thieves actually use their stealth skills. P/D uses it, D/D uses it, D/P uses it and S/D uses it. So for those purposes, the change doesn’t do anything: you were already getting Revealed.
As far as combat goes, the difference will be minor but if you attempt to use a stealth skill and it gets dodged? Well, not only is your damage from the attack negated but you cannot restealth for another 3 seconds.
If some changes are being made that they’re suggesting revolving around lowering base damage but giving boon hate mechanics then it’ll force more damage to come from stealth attacks (Thus making the dodged attacks forcing revealed even worse)
While the positive aspects from the change:
No CnD cheese.
Stealth Stomping becomes suicide if other people are around (Unless using Shadow Refuge) – Which isn’t really positive from the point of view of a thief, but in the eyes of other classes it does get some complaints.
…
…
That’s all I can think of.
The stealth stomping part isnt entirely true. It can and will still be done. I actually see little change in this safety procedure. Looking at it down to the wire, You come out of stealth right as the flag lands, and stay in that bad kitten pose for almost a second. This gives you two seconds of evasion time to re stealth
I play a thief myself and I honestly don’t see what all the fuss is about.
Ok, the Revealed buff on exiting stealth is going to make some traits a bit ickier, such as Last Refuge. It will also put a pretty decent dent on D/P permastealthers. And, of course, it’ll make it so that you cannot just use CnD or smoke fields to get indefinite stealth.
But majority of thieves actually use their stealth skills. P/D uses it, D/D uses it, D/P uses it and S/D uses it. So for those purposes, the change doesn’t do anything: you were already getting Revealed.
As for Mug, changing it makes sense. The only purpose it served was to get a 900 range teleport that dealt ridiculous damage. The only thing it really does is make CnD+Backstab comboing even more ridiculous. So even if they made it so that Mug dealt negligible damage, it’d be just fine.
Because it’s a good baseline. Not only is it possible and semi-likely depending on your opinion, but you can use the numbers to interpolate damage against targets with toughness, protection, etc.
It’s only a good baseline if you use it properly. Right now, people are using the gc vs gc figures as some kind of “average”, which it obviously isn’t. The numbers that gc vs gc fights produce are maximums, so the average damage you’ll get is going to be lower. In most cases, it’ll be much, much lower.
And even then, there’s some shadiness in those numbers. Are we talking one, two or three crits? Are we talking 100% crit rate from stealth or 20% damage increase when target has less than 50% hp?
You’re missing one of the key points. CnD and others did get revealed but sometimes CnD and other skills are used defensively i.e massive zerg headed my way and I find myself in the middle. The point is that we will get essentially punished for skills like Hide in Shadows or traits like Last refuge. If we CnD offensively and they evade our backstabs, thats another 3 seconds.
REVEALED “buff” occurs when a thief attacks while he’s in stealth. If thief’s stealth ends without the thief attacking, a thief can stealth himself again.
Now wonder, how many time did you faced a thief who didn’t BACKSTAB you while he was in stealth? Never. If a thief had to escape, he would just cast shadow refuge -> 15 seconds of stealth -> infiltrator’s arrow -> bye. Is this affected by the “stealth nerf”? No.
The only thing that has been nerfed is that a thief will not be able to use CnD to escape aswell anymore.
Now, what QQers are whining about thief? Being killed in less than 1.5 second. Will this be affected by the “stealth nerf”? No.
So nothing changed a part from the fact that, for a thief, is now just a little bit harder to escape from a fight. How much harder? Meh, not so much to be honest.
Without getting to play with it, the change from this basically just means that every time someone stealths, you know there will be a 3 second window in which they cannot stealth.
Those fighting a thief should plan to use the first 2 seconds for damage and maybe CC the 3rd sec to keep the thief unstealthed longer.
Those fighting as a thief should plan to use dodge rolls, interrupts, etc. during those 3 seconds.
As I said before, it could be good, but it could also not be enough or be too much of a nerf. It also affects Mesmers.
Sebrent I understand that mesmers will be affected, don’t get me wrong, but thieves get hit much harder since stealthing in a lot of builds is like our bread and butter.
It’s extremely marginal.
Just played a few games. This will not be significant.
I mean to be clear, in a typical scenario this wont be too bad, you figure backstabbing when a bit of those auto attacks and 3 seconds will be up like that. But if you have to use HiS, this may be room for complaint, and last refuge, and descent to shadows
Yay! Finally some good news. So happy about that, even though I don’t have a thief.
And youre happy about it because you dont have a thief.
Last refuge shouldnt make us revealed imo, and I know its not a trait but also Hide in Shadows. NO WAY we should be penalized for having to use a heal skill
Without getting to play with it, the change from this basically just means that every time someone stealths, you know there will be a 3 second window in which they cannot stealth.
Those fighting a thief should plan to use the first 2 seconds for damage and maybe CC the 3rd sec to keep the thief unstealthed longer.
Those fighting as a thief should plan to use dodge rolls, interrupts, etc. during those 3 seconds.
As I said before, it could be good, but it could also not be enough or be too much of a nerf. It also affects Mesmers.
Sebrent I understand that mesmers will be affected, don’t get me wrong, but thieves get hit much harder since stealthing in a lot of builds is like our bread and butter.
It’s only a nerf if you sit your kitten spamming Cloak and Dagger.
If you’re actually playing the game you’ll rarely notice it.
Using CnD spam as an offhand dagger thief is the only way to effectively wear down eles and mesmers and make them burn through their cool downs so you can actually kill them. Getting revealed no matter how stealth drops is going to make every thief die to every mesmers clone exploding invincible sword stab bullcrap insta-death move. And also going to make fighting bunker eles impossible. That’s exactly what this game needs, the removal of skill being a factor in whether or not you can win a fight.
NOT true. Wise use of infiltrator’s strike, and the occasional daze will destroy any mesmer. Most D/D ele’s rely on boon stacking which can be stopped easily with some good flanking strike use.
Sounds like people are still running the wrong armor and weapon sets in PvP…..
ya, hold on while I switch to sword and dagger or whatever the current bandwagon weapon set is.
For the topic of class v class, I agree with wish here. I dont consider it CnD spamming when you are fighting a mesmer and you chain off of his clones to get to the real guy. Now fighting them will be difficult. Yeah infl strike works but you are essentially telling me to overhaul my shadow thief (10/30/30/0/0 D/D SB) just for a mesmer? I liked this build because it could handle any situation with the right experience(D/D eles are still a pain in the kitten but now that I cant use those 3 seconds of stealth to locate the real mesmer, since some of them are really good at pretending to be a clone, I am now forced to go from being a patient thief to a bloodthirsty one, which Im sure many of you know, gets you killed.
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.
Haha what? Did you actually take that post seriously? I start comparing us to dinosaurs, and you take me seriously? Come on now. My only gripe with this is I have two weeks to get a face full of potential zerg slaying because after this patch oh boy.
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
Haha what? So this is like a meteor hitting the Thief planet? This doesn’t have any effect on any normal fight. It will make Thief vs Thief way less annoying for one. Even 1v5 or so, you come out and take a few swings then re-enter stelath otherwise you aren’t doing any damage. It only stops Thieves from doing C&D DPS every 3 seconds to regen health instead of running to reset if they start losing. Really not a big deal. You will still be able to bail when you are starting to go down, you just can’t actually stay in the middle of the 5 of them and regen all your health. If they were going to nerf stealth, this is probably the best case scenario.
Haha what? Did you actually take that post seriously? I start comparing us to dinosaurs, and you take me seriously? Come on now. My only gripe with this is I have two weeks to get a face full of potential zerg slaying because after this patch oh boy.
Yeah how well did that work out for the dinosaurs? The velociraptors were experts in the art of stealth and ever since that K-T Event patch hit nerfing every class, the entire system fell. The same will happen to us man.
In my opinion norn are just big humans. I think that they are at least part of the homogeneous which would account for variations in bone structure. For example : if a neanderthal and human kitten sapiens) can mate , why can’t norn and human too ? If a german shepherd can have little dog babies with a chihuahua , why can’t norn and human have babies too ? I think lore wise it should have been a moral dilemma , not “norn and human cant have babies because ArenaNet said so”
I understand this post is a month old, but the one flaw I see here is Your comparison of dog breeds. Yes the two are different breeds but they are the same species which allows for reproduction. With the exception of those darn hybrid animals.
So this means the fall damage trait will basically be an automatic Revealed debuff any time you fall very far.
Last Refuge will also become an even more thorough death sentence than it already is.
I don’t see how this fix anything. The only problem now with the stealth is the culling not the skill. I think anet is making a big mistake here. (I play a guardian as a main)
They really are, I can already come up with a common scenario that will absolutely destroy us now.
It’s only a nerf if you sit your kitten spamming Cloak and Dagger.
If you’re actually playing the game you’ll rarely notice it.
No, you’ll still notice it. Im a patient thief, if I know a backstab isn’t worth it or I can’t get a good angle, I’ll wait it out, now I can’t do that.
Honestly? What if I need to use HiS a ways away from the enemy, and now I get revealed?! This can’t happen. Especially you D/P thieves, what if you run out of stealth, that smokescreen heartseeker won’t save you now.
Authority’s post is the classic 3-hit-combo glass cannon thief build. I’ve had a thief do 24k (6.2k steal, 7k CnD, 12k backstab) on my glass cannon Warrior with that build. I wouldn’t use that in PvE, but at this current time it rules supreme in PvP/WvW. When they turn off culling, I do expect that this build made with zero survival options (past the two single target holds) will take some changing since people will finally be able to see them. That’s happening in 2 weeks, so enjoy it while you can.
And why would I enjoy it for 2 weeks?
Also why are you sharing your tears as a glass cannon warrior to a glass cannon thief? What happend? Couldn’t kill a thief in 1.5 seconds? Life is hard?
I think he thinks that you desperately need those extra 2 seconds of stealth culling gives you
