Guild Wars 2

All classes – same base health as Ranger. Watch a lot of balance and pigeon holed issues disappear.

Hopefully a 5 Ele team takes it out.

Frye.4608:

This is a very slippery slope. So we have two kinds of players now?

The good ones, that are deemed worthy to listen to. And the rest, who can just kitten off, because they’re just not cutting it.

In an international game this is culturally risky stuff. Some people are EXTREMELY sensitive to a ‘chosen few’ system.

Like statistics?

60% of the readers of this thread now feel they will never be a part of the future of gw2.

This is the issue I tried to bring up with my other post. They need to balance the tpvp builds around the top 5%, but they need to listen and adjust the other builds for the other 95%. The problem atm is most classes only have 1 viable build.

Why not go 10/25/30/0/5? You could run AH. If you opt for a hammer the symbol gives a constant stream of healing. Its not as high dps as other optioins but nothing shameful.

Crapgame.6519:

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

TheGuy.3568:

Besides walls/blocks and some boons (namely protection)

Walls, Blocks, and Stability is our main assets. How can you say besides that lol. If a guardian isn’t bringing those, then what the heck are they bringing? Might as well go warrior and bring more Vulnerability, and offensive buffs like 8 second fury.

I say again, if you aren’t bringing the 3 I mentioned above, a warrior offensive buffs and burst damage are superior. You bring a guard for Aegis blocking, Blocks(and blinds), and Stability when needed. This DOES not mean you should trait your guard to be a Trash support class. You can trait damage heavy while bringing these basic things with just 10 points in honor and 10 points in virtues. Then you can go hogwild with the other crap.

So based on what you just said I either bring those 3 items or play another class? Did I understand that correctly?

Wow, talking about being pigeon holed

There is the current issue with guardians right there. Totally pigeon holed.

And unlikely to get a serious buff because of our success in spvp as a bunker.

Aza.2105:

CMF.5461:

Lol, this conversation inspired me to go back and look at the guardian traits and weapons.

Ran across the description of scepter orb of wrath “Fires a slow-moving orb at your foe.”

That made me cry a little on the inside, it was purposefully made to be easy to avoid.

I haven’t logged in for the last month though, so I know the tooltips have been updated. Wonder if it still says “slow moving”.

Its still the same.

And yes it was purposely made that way. Around the time when guardians were begging for scepter to be buffed a dev finally got back to them. I remember him saying (to paraphrase) scepter is the strongest ranged weapon in the game. So it has a cost to its strength.

I guess its cost is sucking….

no…………………………………….

I will comment on Guardian changes

The good – Fury on Meditations was nice, a small buff, but kinda meh when put into action
The bad – the fixing of POV was devastating for WvW play – Consecrations no one gives a kitten as they are not useful in WvW
The missing – Zeal remains uninspiring and needs an overhaul… speccing into Virtues still costs you Highly for only Medium reward at best – still feel our low health eliminates hybrid play and forces us into bunker/support

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

TheGuy.3568:

Besides walls/blocks and some boons (namely protection)

Walls, Blocks, and Stability is our main assets. How can you say besides that lol. If a guardian isn’t bringing those, then what the heck are they bringing? Might as well go warrior and bring more Vulnerability, and offensive buffs like 8 second fury.

I say again, if you aren’t bringing the 3 I mentioned above, a warrior offensive buffs and burst damage are superior. You bring a guard for Aegis blocking, Blocks(and blinds), and Stability when needed. This DOES not mean you should trait your guard to be a Trash support class. You can trait damage heavy while bringing these basic things with just 10 points in honor and 10 points in virtues. Then you can go hogwild with the other crap.

Guardian boons do not last very long. So unless you have a lot of Guardians, your much better off with all Warriors. Fact your better off going 100% Warrior. They can strip off conditions better… the nerf to POV was devastating. They can get 16 sec of stability. They are tankier. They do more damage. They have banner Rez. They have Hard CC.

2 patches have turned Guardians into worthless alsorans by direct comparison.

Bratpirat.6137:

It’s not about the runes, it’s about sending a message. Aka “we dont care at all”. In other games unbalanced things like this runes would be fixed immediatly, leaving this for months says more about how much they care than any “we look into it” post.

I am shocked they have lasted so long.

1 build diversity – few viable builds
2 petting zoo and conditions are too strong with no drawbacks
3 too much cc

I know what you mean. My Guardian feels like a weakling compared to my mace/mace hammer warrior. Its a mindless faceroll with zero downside. Not to mention tons of stability and amazing condition removal.

Kryank.8069:

Relentliss.2170:

I think T1 players tend to understand their role and have gear and builds to support it. T1 players are usually in TS and following orders. T1 has attracted better ‘in battle’ commanders that make all the players play better.

T2 down all run dps builds they saw on the forum. They are not likely in TS together and seem terribly disorganised in a fight. Their good commanders have left them for T1.

I love sweeping generalisations!!

I love being right.

Its pretty small buff if any. Anet disappoints like usual.

LOL is kinda interesting. It definitely listens to all its players when balancing.

However, it seems to balance its tougher to play characters on info provided by its elite players. And the ‘starting’ or easier characters based on info from the general player base.

Ideally, Anet would balance the tournament builds based on elite player feedback and other builds on your average player.

Sadly, the meta is so poor most classes only have one build for each mode. This ahould be their focus. How to make other builds viable to avoid stagnation.

I think T1 players tend to understand their role and have gear and builds to support it. T1 players are usually in TS and following orders. T1 has attracted better ‘in battle’ commanders that make all the players play better.

T2 down all run dps builds they saw on the forum. They are not likely in TS together and seem terribly disorganised in a fight. Their good commanders have left them for T1.

I would roll a warrior. Its tankier and does more damage. It has range. And to top it off its support just got boosted.

Main reason…. its not hard to give yourself 16 sec of stability and has the best condition cleansing in the game. So you are well protected from the 2 bad parts of this games meta.

Earth shaker every 6-8 sec ftw.

Its the Chuck Noris of GW2.

There are no classes in GW2 just a list things Warriors kill.

Devon strikes again. Previously he said he would improve our rewards and here he goes kittening us over with random crap.

ensoriki.5789:

Guardian is the best choice. See guardian forums for aid.
Regardless of everything this is one class that has been relevant without doubt throughout all of pvp.

Yes, but it is incredibly pigeon holed into bunker builds… which get boring fast.

Warrior has a few builds that all work.

clint.5681:

PoV hit us too hard in WvW, i just experienced it and it frankly makes me not want to play much anymore. Purging flames is not a good enough replacement for condition clearing.

The only thing I will suggest it perhaps trying, as a group, to cycle Save Yourselves and the Meditation Contemplation of Purity. So Guardian 1 uses the 2 skills together and then Guardian 2. etc…

Or if you are pugging, just slot the Meditation as your 3rd skill and use when desperate.

And yeah this was a painful nerf.

If you are in mele range you need to have skills on shorter CD in pvp. PVE we don’t seem to have as many issues and have never felt weak. This is where consecrations fail. If your not supporting yourself with a skill every 5-10 seconds, you will die in mele range… possibly because our health is so low. And as a group of skills they don’t seem to help our low health much.

Our Signets are total fail as a group of skills. Their effects seem random at best, for the most part. I personally quite like Judgement but the cast times are all too long on the others. Again there seems to be a misunderstanding of what skills are useful to a mele character. Long cast times are not great for mele in pvp.

Thus we are left with shouts and meds. Both are pretty good. CD is not too bad. Durations could be improved. I’d love an extra Shout… something with the versatility of Hold the Line. Heck if I could slot it twice I would. And HTL is not all that powerful, a relatively weak regen and a protection bonus. But it compensates for our weakness, low health, nicely.

If they addressed the real problems with the unused skills… they might become useful.

The Devs have not addressed the problems with the other 2 types of skills.

Our ultimate skills are not that great. There is no offensive one. The books are clunky at best and when you try to use them you get hammered with CC. Renewed Focus is not as good as the Warriors Shield #5 or Endure Pain. Its hardly an ultimate skill.

jportell you seem to ignore the simple fact that a Mesmer does not need to be in mele range to do its damage with most of its weapons. A guardian does. That is why it is such a problem for guardians.

CC – Include stability on more classes. Warrior can get like 6-8 forms of CC and has 16 seconds of stability itself. Maybe I am the only one who sees the unfairness of this.

Condition Spam – Reduce the size of the Condition AOE. Duration and damage. Increase CD. Obviously each skill needs to be looked at individually. No #1 skill should have a CC or Damage Condition, they should be straight up damage. – start with these changes

I think its the Denial that the Dev’s are showing that has enraged people. They put out a balancing patch that has insigificant changes in it for most classes and a buff to the games strongest class. A patch that does nothing to improve the game at all. It contains no balance or addresses any real issues.

Everyone realises they only have a few programers working on the game. Anet seems to devote more programming hours to Warrior than the other classes combined. This suggests unfairness and a general lack of regard for the bulk of the player base. Its like if you went out for dinner and the chef spent an hour preparing a meal for the table beside you and served you up some reheated left overs. You would likely be upset. Its pretty much the same thing.

This could be a good spvp game with the right balancing. But its not. Some people do enjoy it, but most do their daily and log. Therefore its not getting the following or increased playerbase it needs.

Maybe we need a change of direction in the balancing team. They currently are not listening to or working for the player base at all.

I think you would find a Warrior better.

If you want to go Guardian visit the Profession section and have a look at the Healway thread.

Yeah they all play warrior

jportell.2197:

Why are so many people griping about movement? My first 80 was a mesmer literally the slowest of the slow when it comes to swiftenss up time so maybe I’m just used to it. But I had 100% swiftness uptime between retreat, SYS and staff for leveling…. And if I wanted more utility slots I would just swap out SYS for JI… I mean really base movement guard is fine. In combat mobility may be lacking but not movement speed in general.

I think because its been a year and I can’t think of one thing that is majorly better than launch.

If they made 1 positive improvement to each class once a month, even if it was small, the game would be in a lot better state than it is now.

I guess the other thing is that a lot of us decided to try Warrior either by levelling it or spvping it. And we can’t believe how much better it is. It can do damage and be tanky at the same time. It can carry 6-8 crowd controls at one time…. ok its just got the entire package.

Meanwhile no signifcant work has been done on guardian.

Last I checked Mesmers did not have to be meleing their target to do damage. It becomes exasperated when you have to hit something with a mele weapon and it is faster than you.

Warrior Priest or maybe a Warden

One of the most constructive posts I’ve seen lately. Gj

Distaste.4801:

With that said, STOP BALANCING FOR CURRENT META’s. It has not served you well to this date and it won’t serve you well in the future. Not only is it hurting SPvP but it’s completely ruining PvE and WvW. Currently you have very few viable builds per class and given the nature of this game there should/could be a whole lot more. What this game needs is massive changes to skills/abilities/stats/armor that create a lot more builds and variables, AKA Depth. Once you have a system with tons of new viable builds you can finally start fine tuning them, that’s where you guys went wrong. You started trying to fine tune builds on top of a broken system that remains broken to this very day.

I would have to agree with this sentiment.

1 viable pvp build for most classes does not a fun pvp game make. And some are barely viable…

Nor does a meta when true skill = spamming circles onto a point or spamming CC at a group of people.

morrolan.9608:

Zumy.6318:

No changes… wow ANet…

Yeah I know, its not like complaints have just started its mind boggling that it takes this long to make what isn’t a large change.

I agree its professionaly incompetent.

Bash.7291:

Ryan.8367:

AgentChaos.4932:

you forgot pov needs to remove 2 condis again

It was always meant to only remove 1… It was a fix… Alot of classes got fixes , mesmer’s duelist got fixed , sigil of para was fixed as well… Please do not tell me you didn’t see this coming? It has been in the guardian suggestions for fixes for like 4 months.

That doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt guardians who are already having issues with the condition meta. Now we have to give up even more offensive stats to deal with conditions, which once again is just pushing us further and further to the “go pure bunker or die” that they seem to want us to go to.

Indeed. While it was a bug it helped make the current game more tolerable. With it being ‘fixed’ the game just got that little bit worse.

There are good ideas in this thread but none will ever be implemented.

I love how he calls things ‘improvements’ cause I am not seeing any.

Kwll.1468:

Balance Schmalance. Seriously you get these kinds of responses from A-net and yet you have people that insist on making excuses for them all day long. They don’t care what the community has to say when it comes to balance. They will make the changes they feel are fit and you will take it or leave it. They will post condescending bs tell us how to post feedback in a proper format even though they won’t use the feedback anyway. Its mind numbing really. Pointy head knows best. Not one real nerf to warriors or conditions. Adding a few hard counter abilities is not a nerf to conditions.

I follow the forums very religiously and I don’t see legitimate player feedback in this patch. It is very much a ‘suck it up’ sort of patch for everyone but Warrior. The meta, which includes petting zoos, CC spam and conditiom spam, is still awful and yet nothing is being done on Anet’s end.

I am not sure they know any more. I really think its time for a direction change as far as who is doing the class balancing. Too much love is given to Warriors, they are constantly being looked at, and too little is given to other classes. The devs to not seem to like or care about this class. They are content with it simply because it can bunker in tournaments.

AgentChaos.4932:

^yes that effect is lost. and yes guardians got nerfed hard and people still saying ‘its perfectly fine’

Agreed

Its not fine.

The patch says to me that it might be time to get rid of Peters and move forward. He does not seem to be in touch with what is going on or he is either unable or unwilling to admit mistakes.

It might be time to move forward with someone else at the helm.

To me he seems like a young guy who has found himself over his head.

The best thing they could do for the game would be to find a way out of the current comdition meta and this might require more leadership.

Meh

There is nothing in this patch to alter the current condition meta. It says to me they are out of touch or unwilling to do anything about it.

Would have liked a small boost to my class but got nothing.

tanshiniza.8629:

1) So…all my meditations are instant cast and I got 3 seconds of fury on meditation casting. I guess that means my initial burst does more damage but that’s about all.

2) The utilities they updated are still pointless either due to the cooldown being too long or the skill just simply being a pile of kitten.

3)They updated the tool tips to tell me in more detail how useless or not useless all my skills are.

4) They lied about sorting out our support skills that weren’t really used very often cause looking at the very…very…very minor changes they made to them I still won’t be using them cause they’re still bloody awful.

5) They fixed Pure of Voice which is a nerf as far as I’m concerned because it was pretty much the only way a shout build could keep up with the condition Meta with any level of success.

6) I will not be rolling a Warrior but instead I shall go to WvW tonight as my Guardian and take out my frustration on every other class until I am satisfied or Anet do something that I can be proud of though something tells me I’m more likely to kill the entire Server 300 times over before the later happens.

Happy hunting all!

Pretty much ^^ This is how I feel. Our class is not ruined or anything, but nothing has been done to make it better. Consecrations have too long a CD so any work they put in was wasted. They just ignored the fundamental problem with them and helped us very little.

People are generally not happy with the Condition Meta. Everything in your pvp build has to go towards removing them. Nothing in the patch helps with this. The POV ‘fix’ means now you will have to find even more removal from somewhere else. The more you have to build to counter conditions the less fun you have. There is the whole story, less fun for the forseeable future. Nothing in the patch that is going to help improve things for the forseeable future.

I find Traveler to be simply the difference between having fun and not having fun when roaming with my mates. It makes roaming possible.

In a Zerg I switch back to my soldier runes as I am always Swifted by the many people and I will likely want to use a staff to tag people and empower anyways.

Buran.3796:

But I’m not crying: I have 5 characters at 80, so when I want to have fun I just put my -main- Guardian in a corner, I take my Warrior and I use my crit build, my bleed build or my stun build and I get that fun.

I think the writing is kinda on the wall for Guardians. Going to level my Warrior up as it is just so much better at nearly everything.

Vayne.8563:

Relentliss.2170:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think Anet is sitting there preening their feathers thinking about how great they are. I think Anet is scared to say stuff because the community is so rabid. Which is very different than someone who doesn’t listen to criticism.

When you burn away all the good will you built up from your previous game in record time and blatantly lie about the game, I guess you should expect criticism.

When the fanbase can’t see the difference between a lie and a change of direction based on observation and necessity, the fanbase is rabid.

Some of us understand why certain changes were made, whether we like it or not.

When you sell a game as having horizontal progression, like its prdecessor, and don’t have any. Then switch to vertical. Yeah I call that lying.

When you say this game is going to be an esport and you ship with it missing 90% of the features to make it so. Yeah I call that lying.

When you say you are going to make all types of play rewarding but you have crap rewards in WvW and filter people into fractals. Yeah I call that lying.

When you make a game that has none of the soul or sophistication of its predecessors. Yeah I call that dodgy.

I could go on, but Yes-men like you are the ones who have let Anet ruin this game by giving them poor feedback.

Vayne.8563:

I don’t think Anet is sitting there preening their feathers thinking about how great they are. I think Anet is scared to say stuff because the community is so rabid. Which is very different than someone who doesn’t listen to criticism.

When you burn away all the good will you built up from your previous game in record time and blatantly lie about the game, I guess you should expect criticism.

LHound.8964:

Don’t go offtopic.

This thread is about the relation between materials and gold, not about their necessity to craft ascended weapons!

The real currency in the game is time. My point is if you grind the mats up from scratch they are excessive. Lots of blokes may have had 2 or 3 stacks of wood in the bank so it likely didn’t bother them much but if you actually go out and grind them on 1 character it is an excessive grind.

I would like to be brought up on par with Warriors in all areas of the game. Since they went to such bother to bring warriors more group support. More health, damage, CC and mobility seem to be a reasonable request.

silvermember.8941:

Relentliss.2170:

-classes not being played in tournamnets

Oh well. I won’t be the one out of work at Xmas.

As an elementalist player or former ele till last saturday,, I totally agree with the first part, but the last part>? let be realistic, I don’t see that happening.

If people don’t play, they will make cut backs.

I can say right now my Warrior and Ranger take zero skill to play and usually top the charts in points. I don’t even have to think to play them. Necro pretty much the same. I just don’t like casters.

I deleted my Ele…