Guild Wars 2

Got tired of fighting full 80 man map blobs who build open field siege every few steps or playing to starve supply. Simple as that. Playing against JQ SEA is not fun and we’re not going to do what isn’t fun

Saffron Bread is very powerful if you’re up against heavy melee trains. The damage mitigation is huge, especially when combined with the -condi duration.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

TyPin.9860:

It is funny how some people assume, that it was already established condition builds would be overpowered. I have yet to see the evidence for that. I read condition spam all the time, however, what about direct damage spam? People want condition users to think about, when to apply conditions. However, the good condition users do that, and that is what’s destroying you. Blow your cleanses on the easy mode conditions and of course you will then be spammed with the real deal.

I rarely run a condition build when roaming. But when I do, I run as necromancer and I see, that people simply don’t know how to react to conditions. Blowing cleanses either way way too early or wait just till the last moment, when I just chain fear them, because I have loaded up enough conditions.

And it was then in the Edge of the Mists, the last place where I’d expect that, that I found a Mesmer, who knew how to deal with a condition build. He stayed away, avoided to get close and be hit with all the close range AoE condition applies. Letting me reach him only with staff and therefore keep condition application low. Only once did I manage to get close to him and load him up. What he then simply cleansed. It ended in a stalemate, because my zerg arrived. But that one knew, how it is done.

It is in many cases a learn to play issue. And some players (not even the majority, just some, who seem to scream the loudest) refuse to educate themselves on how to deal with such kind of builds.

\o/ Someone else who understands!
Good to see there are still some people with common sense regarding condition versus power.

Not even going to waste my time trying to reason with the others, will just lol at them when they party me and tell me conditions are OP instead.

Well, since you can’t seem to understand… Conditions are fine as it is. The problem with conditions in PvP however, is the numerous types of conditions applied combined with the ease of application (so many conditions are applied on autoattack), that it becomes a brain dead way of playing when you only need 2 armor stats (precision for sigil effects, condition damage – for some builds, you don’t even need precision). Combine this with power builds and the DPS they have to sacrifice if they want any decent survivability at all in a PvP scenario makes for an extremely unbalanced state of affairs.

Conditions are weak on their own. No one disputes this. In zergs, they get cleansed really quickly and do very little damage (though puts a lot of pressure on the melee train) and in PvE, the condition cap means the DPS from pure condi builds is hilariously low compared to power builds. The problem is that in a 1v1 – 3v3 situation, there’s no way to combat the number of conditions applied with the cleanses available.

Those claiming they can eat condi builds any day with a power build – sure, no doubt. I do too with certain classes (lolcleansingirezerkwarrior). The issue is the innate imbalance between the two different damage types and how they can be brought in line with each other so that condition builds can hit harder than a feather in PvE and large zergs and not hit like a freaking steam locomotive in small scale WvW fights.

OP has never roamed. Way too obvious.

If you’re not running SA thief, you have very little chance against condi builds. There’s just no way to counter 5+ conditions being applied every second by engis and necros and condi PU mesmers, or avoid power PU mesmer’s burst while mitigating the constant cripples (actually, that’s a little easier than trying to deal with damaging condi and challenging in a fun way, if not a little frustrating when it doesn’t work out in your favour)

You want rewards for failing???

Why do you think AoE cleanses in zergs are taken in favour of more offensive utility skills? It’s because condition spam can and does hurt just as much as direct damage

I don’t have problem with the idea of DOT based builds, but there’s just too many different types, and cleanses usually cleanse 3 at a time (guardian can clear all condi but that’s the only class who can, ele’s ether renewal is a joke since it’s so easy to interrupt) when you can apply 4,5,6 or more conditions at the same time. Not to mention most cleanses have ridiculously high cooldowns

T1 servers don’t want matchups outside of T1. We don’t want to fight empty maps once NA prime ends. Keep us out of your suggestions.

I’m dropping a stack of these daily. As if you can’t get enough.

Lol who cares about AP. I’ve been playing the game basically since it was released and have 6k AP, whereas my peers have upwards of 20k AP. Does it make any difference? Nope. We still do kitten together just like everyone else

Travis the Terrible.4739:

DiazKincade.2891:

Travis the Terrible.4739:

So basically you want people to learn basic game mechanics and that wearing clerics gear is bad?

imokaywiththis

The fact so many people call clerics bad is not so much because the concept of healing is bad. Its that healing power just scales so horribly with the majority of heals in this game. Something that should be fixed but the balance issues brought about make that very difficult. That and they don’t want to create the “holy trinity”

Name one instance in the entire game where clerics gear is to go to gear choice.
YOU CAN’T

For general purpose pve zerkers is the preferred choice.
For structure bosses soldiers.
For wvw purposes zerker, soldiers, and knights are generally run the majority of the time.

It’s not just healing power scaling is bad, it’s that active defense in this game (dodging, blocks, side stepping etc etc) is your main defense. Clerics gear never will be a “meta” set regardless of what you’re doing. Unless you want to run a tanky healer in wvw and drop water fields than it won’t be useful for anything other than that.

Look up healway guard build. It’s a WvW guardian build based around Clerics gear, obtaining around 1.2k healing power and basically invincible due to guardian mechanics (with sigil of energy and stamina). Shout heal warriors are encouraged to go Clerics too due to insane heals they give. Healing is actually quite OP but it’s hard to tell in PvE. It makes a massive difference in WvW and PvP though.

Each of the skills has extensive description of what it does, from combo fields to combo finishers. If people aren’t going to learn them, then that’s their problem. Modern games holds your hand far too much and games lose the sense of exploration and discovery. GW2 is fine as it is.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

It is a troll post.

Anyone who knows the OP knows that his persistence is matched only by his intensity.

Think along the lines of an annoying fly that wont go away or a mosquito that wont let you sleep and you’ll come close.

I hope it’s a troll post. It’s hard to tell tone over text. It just seems too ridiculous… Farming karma… lol

At first I thought this was a troll post satirising the PvDoor nature of WvW. Then it just kept going…

If you want to farm Karma, go to the Crown Pavilion or any of the Orrian maps and keep clear of a PvP mode, tyvm.

Wow this is real

Unbelievable. I’m so sorry JQ.

I fall asleep against T2 servers. No way am I going lower than that….

Oceanic time zone is dead even in T1, so there’s not much chance that people who play in that time zone will move below gold servers.

StormSandals.9480:

Reverence.6915:

SFShinigami.2015:

Were you fighting a mesmer outside of SM on green side just before this thread happened?

I was but that wasn’t what prompted me to post this thread. It was an engi on TCBL who put all the conditions that existed on me and didn’t let me cleanse much before I died. By the time I was fighting in EBG, I was getting massive lag and half my skills weren’t hitting even though they clearly did on my screen (no “miss” or “block” prompts either)

Female Human Engi, Bronze rank?

Nah, was an Asura

JoeYl.4609:

Condi nerf = food + melandru rune
if you have 2-3 skill to clean the condi it will be ok

So we’re sacrificing our own DPS (huge amount of DPS, over 250 power/precision we’re talking about here) to counter 1 thing? Cause you know… Rare veggie pizza just removes all of that sacrifice you just made.

Narkodx.1472:

Someone answer the following question: Why should WvW roaming be balanced?

The thing is folks. It shouldn’t and will never be. How are conditions OP when they are not dominating any other part of the game. WvW Roaming is not a supported game format. Join the zergs or L2P.

I used to think condition builds were OP. Then I realized so are Shadow Arts power thieves. So are nike warriors resetting at will. So are Power PU mesmers. etc etc etc

If you want fair small scale fights you know where to go – PVP
If you want “fair” small scale fights with your OP build because PVP customization sucks. You deal with WvW roaming which is not a real game mode and you deal with the BS builds.

Why is this more important than fixing WvW PPt, defense, or coverage. IT’S NOT!

Here’s the thing. Like you said, conditions are only really viable in PvP. The issue is that it’s too overpowered in PvP but too weak in PvE. The reason it being too powerful in PvP is that there’s not enough cleansing to combat the amount of conditions applied. The reason it’s too weak in PvE is due to the condi cap limiting the amount of DPS output (combined with the weird way condi is calculated so that someone with a lower condi power will lower the overall condi damage when the condi is at cap). Conditions are broken in this game and need to be fixed.

Right now, the only viable characters I have for roaming are my warrior and necromancer. Guardians are hilariously bad at roaming and ele gets 2 shot by shatter mesmers and 5-2 thieves. I just got my thief to level 80 recently so I’m still terrible at it. I use a condi necro myself so I know how kitten strong it is compared to any power build.

This isn’t just about WvW. It’s about sPvP and PvE too.

Terrahero.9358:

WoW you’re serious…

Okay imagine a world where you can cleanse conditions as much as they are applied. So, there would be no way to deal damage with conditions cause conditions are constantly removed.
Ergo, a condition build would be utterly, brokenly, unplayable because it cannot deal any damage.

Seriously, its so boring to read these same buzz words over and over. “Condition spam”, surely enough its in this thread already.
What is condition spam? Someone applies a lot of condition damage… so? THATS WHAT HE IS BUILD FOR, HE IS DOING kitten ALL DIRECT DAMAGE.

I dont ever see anyone complain about the “direct-damage spam”, anyone build for power damage constantly attacking you with power damage is ok.
Someone build for condition damage constantly attacking you with condition damage is apparently broken…

Let me guess, next up the “hurr durr he just applies conditions with his autoattack”? Because surely its broken to apply a 4sec bleed on autoattack when that same autoattack cant even crit for 600damage.
But its okay for power builds to pump out 3k+ crits on their autoattack, right?

Like I said in the OP “It’s not the conditions themselves”. It’s the fact that you can stack more than you can cleanse. There’s no way to counter-play that when they’re full bunker too. Any power build, same class, will lose to an equally skilled condi bunker build because of its “safeness”. Just sit back and apply conditions putting out slightly less DPS than a power build but take much less damage than power build too.

If you’re going for a power build, you have to sacrifice a lot of sustain in order to balance sustainability and DPS. It’s not necessary with a condi build and that’s the problem.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Reverence.6915:

It’s ridiculous that some classes can apply more conditions than you can cleanse

I think you should read what you wrote a few times…

I’m assuming this is a joke thread?

Condition cleansing skills often have twice or three times the cooldown period to condition application skills (autoattack skills notwithstanding). Think about that.

You will not be able to avoid every single skill and, if your opponent gets the first hit on you (such as when you’re fighting a sentry and they come out of stealth to hit you), there’s no way to fight back when you’re trying to cleanse all the conditions and keep your health up since you’re losing 3000-5000 health per tick. For most classes, that’s death within 4 seconds.

DeWolfe.2174:

Diamond Skin say’s, “hi”

No self respecting ele will take diamond skin while roaming. It’s in a horrible trait line that needs you to sacrifice basically all your DPS and boon application.

Azrael.4960:

What needs to be fixed? So you can’t burst down a necro/engi who just condi’d you to death? Seriously, outside of pvp, conditions are already messed up. If they’re nerfed in pvp/wvw then they’d be useful nowhere

What needs to be fixed is the amount of conditions applied vs the amount of cleanse a person can have needs to be balanced. It’s draining any semblance of build variety in WvW when conditions are so strong that every class that wants to roam must take every kind of cleanse available to them so they don’t die to conditions instantly.

Basically, cleansing needs to be made stronger

SFShinigami.2015:

My clones loved exploding all over you

You weren’t doing much damage to me. It was an engineer and warrior next to you.

I build my ele for lots of cleanse when it’s roaming, but condi bunker builds are just stupid and not fun to play against. The way it’s going, we’ll only have condi bunkers fighting against each other and roaming really die by that time.

SFShinigami.2015:

Were you fighting a mesmer outside of SM on green side just before this thread happened?

I was but that wasn’t what prompted me to post this thread. It was an engi on TCBL who put all the conditions that existed on me and didn’t let me cleanse much before I died. By the time I was fighting in EBG, I was getting massive lag and half my skills weren’t hitting even though they clearly did on my screen (no “miss” or “block” prompts either)

Azrael.4960:

What needs to be fixed? So you can’t burst down a necro/engi who just condi’d you to death? Seriously, outside of pvp, conditions are already messed up. If they’re nerfed in pvp/wvw then they’d be useful nowhere

Dire gear… burst them to death? when they have 3k toughness and over 25k hp? If you can burst them down, you’d be complete glass and die from condi before you can even get your skills off

Condi needs a serious nerf in WvW. It’s ridiculous that some classes can apply more conditions than you can cleanse, basically killing you in less than 5 seconds. There’s so few ways to counter play that and all of them involve a battle of attrition, which isn’t fun.

It’s not so much the individual conditions themselves, but the combination of several conditions together. Confusion by itself is fine. Torment by itself is fine etc. But Bleed, Confusion, Poison, Vulnerability, Weakness etc etc. all applied at the same time is stupid. Especially with the randomness of cleansing and the ease of re-applying the conditions (seriously needs to be an icd on conditions like confusion and torment, say… 30 seconds, in line with most cleanse skills)

Yeah yeah, this has been talked to death and several threads have been made about it, but even so, we need to keep complaining about this until it gets fixed.

Deli.1302:

You’ve got to be kidding me.

Believe it or not, JQ does need EU and NA. You might (or might not, depends) see TC and BG put up similar threads.

Everyone can laugh and ridicule them the day they start recruiting Oceanic and SEA.

There’s no off peak in T1. Just a few hours of down time in each server’s weak zone(s)

In Blackgate at least, we aim to have at least 2 commanders up at any one time, just to cover more ground, but there areof course times when that’s not possible due to lack of numbers. There’s always a tag up though. Can’t say for the other servers, but they have people to play against so…

If you got a fairly equal 3 server tier like T1 NA, playing competitive PPT is quite thrilling. It only happens once in a blue moon though.

Being restricted with having fights only on EBG sounds ludicrously boring. Guilds go out of their way to avoid that map in T1. Pretty sure most guilds in T2 and T3 prefer the borderlands too.

Fights for the sake of fights alone is boring. Fights for the sake of an objective is much more interesting.

Hazar Stonefist.7968:

Looking for a low pop server right now. Tired of zerg fights

Bunch of bs. If you don’t want zerg fights, don’t join the zerg. Simple as that. You’ll find that lower tiers are comprised of zerg fights too. What’ll you do then?

Arius.7031:

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

This is the other big difference – organisation.
At the time of my last post, we had a main zerg of around 25-30 and two 5 man groups. Give an upper estimation of those not in teamspeak, and you get 50. Tagged or untagged doensn’t matter. We know they’re there.

An undefended keep can be taken by 3 people (least amount of people I’ve successfully done it with). How many things get flipped really isn’t an indication of numbers on a borderland.

Basically what the title says

I want to upgrade to Heroic edition but the method is really convoluted and messy. Just let us upgrade same way we can upgrade to digital deluxe.

Jeknar.6184:

7am server time… We’re on ocx prime right now if i’m not mistaken. Look on my minimap how many green dots we have on our only keep. Not even the Kaineng zerg is impressive (10-15ish maybe?)

Also, the camps on AR BL were taken by 1 person, that never got interrupted (which lead me to belive that there is no AR on that map).

Super healthy isn’t?

It’s about 2-3 hours to Oceanic prime from time of posting, but yeah, really sad. BG’s barely got 50 guys in WvW right now as it is, and we’re ranked 3.

Although the first week of a tournament can bring forth insane queues all the way down to T8, there’s not enough in WvW to keep those guys coming back.

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Deli.1302:

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

Wasn’t any different during seasons. We had unqueued maps the very first week a few hours after the first reset. Given that any of the tier 1 servers still absolutely rolls over tier 2, despite the decline in population, I can’t imagine how barren and boring it is in the lowest tiers.

Pic from about 9:40pm server time. This doesn’t include our guild groups, our BL defense group, or our various havoc squads.

Just… stop. If lower tier servers consistently had that kind of turn out, they’d be in tier 3-4, not 6-8

Depends on which servers you’re fighting against. If you’ve fought against the same server(s) for a long time, they’ll know who’s commanding almost instantly. It’s even easier to pick up if it’s against a guild group as opposed to a pug group. When I tag up, I instantly get focus on by 5 or so glass cannon rangers by enemy zergs, which drops your health really really quickly (each rapid fire does up to 5k damage, combine that with another 4 guys doing the same thing and guards not having a great health pool… yeah…)

Mind you, I’m still only in early silver ranks as well.

If you’re the one getting focused on and not your driver though, that just gives your zerg a greater chance of better movement and direction. Think of it as taking one for the team.

Let the hate for us flow through you.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Reverence.6915:

Hobbitz.5831:

I remember back in the day when BG used to rip on SoR for cheering about bags when they were losing and cheering about ppt when they were winning.

Funny when the shoe is on the other foot……

We ripped on them for going on about “the fights” (and still would, if they were still in T1 – at least I would). Everyone’s cheered about bags since the inception of WvW, since that’s really the only real source of income if you’re a WvW only player.

TC = / = SoR

..and you got beat dun good.

… we weren’t talking about TC…

Also, if you feel good about winning a 2v1, the kitten centre is to your left

Hobbitz.5831:

I remember back in the day when BG used to rip on SoR for cheering about bags when they were losing and cheering about ppt when they were winning.

Funny when the shoe is on the other foot……

We ripped on them for going on about “the fights” (and still would, if they were still in T1 – at least I would). Everyone’s cheered about bags since the inception of WvW, since that’s really the only real source of income if you’re a WvW only player.

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Seems like T6 and T7 have more Oceanic than T1 and T2 from what you’re saying. Stop spouting BS. T1 can barely get more than 60 players into WvW during an average weeknight during Oceanic prime. We PvDoor keeps down with 5 players. This is Tier 1 I’m talking about. T2 is even worse, with DB having non-existent forces and Mag fielding maybe 30 on a good night and only SoS fielding a sizable force. SEA is only marginally better, but that’s usually JQ PvDooring down everything in sight.

If T2 can just barely match T6 or T7 for numbers, then why the hell is there such a big gap in “coverage”.

Rimmy.9217:

Good production values, but it’s a pity that the video shows that Blackgate still promotes blobbing and overwhelming numbers as its strategy. I guess after season three people will be able to point back to this video and say “Here is where they set the stage to be double-teamed again”.

Ho hum – gone are the days when we could expect innovation from this server, I guess.

We hardly “blobbed” compared to what we were facing throughout season 2. It’s all relative. 50 may be a blob to a group of 20, but when you’re faced against 160 (2 full map zergs), 80 is hardly a blob. We even changed that by around week 6, opting to have multiple 5-10 man teams to back cap camps and bloodlust to keep PPT up while our main zerg barely numbered 20 (and were still wiping JQ and TC zergs due to responses by one of the smaller teams nearby and such).

Buffy.9246:

This trying I recruit more guilds to bg?

Is it making you want to come?

Perfectblue.6409:

Not so much action in the video….or were they actually not since BG was being professionally double teamed? hehehee

There’s plenty of videos showing action during season 2. This video is an acknowledgement of what we had over the season and the guilds on BG that kept fighting through the double team.

Beastgate4Lyfe

Can’t touch this

The meta has… Changed… It’s not better or worse, just different. GvG guilds have gotten better though as the GvG scene becomes more mainstream

The core classes hasn’t really changed since a year ago

There are no such things as queue anymore except on reset night. There’s been a huge drop in population since a year ago. Of course, if your server decides to zerg it up, you’ll get a queue in a map, maybe. Doesn’t really happen though

The hard core 2v1 on BG stopped, but the mentality to 2v1 BG is still there.

Can’t be helped if that’s the way you played the game for around 2 months

This is the first I heard of someone complaining about too much loot. It’s not hard to carry a few salvaging kits (or a copper fed) and salvage along the way. It’s not like you’re in constant non-stop fights. There are times where you’re just running between places. The only place this might be an issue is in EoTM and well, no WvWer really cares about that…

I’ve been on the same server since launch (Blackgate) and I’ve spent a few hundred dollars on gems. That’s not really the issue.

The issue is that a community is really difficult to maintain and it’s much easier to join an existing community than to foster one yourself. There’s no reason to stay on a server which had their community had collapse unless you can’t afford the gems, besides one very good reason – to rebuild that community. It sure takes a lot of time, money (TS/Mumble server, forum host, domain registration amongst some of the costs involved) and effort though.

Transfers are in the game for a reason and there is no reason not to use it to get a better gaming experience. It just becomes an issue when it starts to affect a significant portion of the player base when it gets out of control (mass transfers such as pre S1 T1 servers and pre S2 HOD and Gandara)

One of the biggest problems is that there are too many servers and not enough players to populate them in WvW. There’s not enough incentive to enter and play WvW competitively (as in, not fairweathering) for the majority of players. The lack of rewards in WvW compounds the problem, as hardcore WvW players need to PvE to fund themselves.

There are enough players on paper to populate every WvW map on every server every day during NA prime time. You don’t see them because WvW doesn’t provide enough to do for those PvE players. Especially on lower tier servers where players can’t play the PPT game that highest tier servers have the means to do which attracts more PvE players.

Randomising WvW teams would not fix the problem but make it worse, since the more fundamental problems of incentive and reward wouldn’t have been fixed. The reason higher tier players have “more players” (not really) is that the small amount players that don’t live in North America have only a few servers to play on where they can get fights and not PVDoor. Hell, there’s around 8 Oceanic guilds in all of T1 added up, together fielding maybe 300-400 players, pushing 500 on a very good day. There are more NA players on a single Tier1-Tier2 NA server. Think about that. Only idiots would transfer off T1/2 if they played Oceanic since there’d be no fights at all.