Guild Wars 2

Vyniea.2054:

Hello! I am a returning player, I stopped playing around September last year for various reasons, but now my interest in GW2 was rekindled and I’m planning on starting to play again soon.

I’d like to know a few things though, basically what are the things that changed the most since September, I know there are the patch notes and all that jazz but while I’ve read them I’d still like to know what the players have to say about the game, since they’ve experienced the new content, the balancing patches and all that stuff, I haven’t.

My favorite classes were Mesmers, Thieves and Engineers, so if anything big happened to them (or bigger than what the patch note would allow me to guess) it’d be nice to know.

Anyway, thanks in advance for the answers and see you in-game.

Ciao ciao!

The grind is worse then ever. Prepare to grind Tunnel for a while since if you want the stats you’d like it’ll cost you about 70 gold.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

I strongly disagree.

First, Arenanet does not like Hardcore players, they put Diminishing Returns in place to stop hardcore farming.

Arenanet does seem to favor Casual players. The fact that they make everything “Daily” proves that. That way you log in “a little” everyday to do part of something you want, and get rewards slowly. You can only get 1 Pristine Fractal Relic per day, 1 Laurel per day, 60 per dungeon path once per day(otherwise 20 tokens for re-do), etc etc.

So if you are Casual and in 1 evening you do 1 Fractal run, you will get your ring in 10 days. Even if you are Hardcore and you do 10 Fractal runs in 1 evening, it will still take you 10 days to get your ring.

Last, Arenanet does not favor Impatient players. Everything about this game is about playing a little of everything per day and building what you want to have over-time. This whole game was made based on “waiting”. You waited 5 years for this game to come out.

Arenanet’s philosophy, also known as “When it’s ready” applied to the game’s release, the patches, or even your gears/cool items you get. Even their events are not instant, you have to “wait” for the events/chain to start.
Your Ascended Ring will be ready in 10 days(provided you play a Fractal per day).

Now dont say there isn’t enough stuff to do because of “once per day” things. You can do 1 Fractal, 1 time of each path of a dungeon, 1 daily, 1 time each OrichalcumOre/AncientWood mining(24hour respawn nodes). That’s enough stuff for 1 evening.

This is a clever way to keep players. Otherwise, you would hardcore farm quests/raids/dungeons/materials and get what you want instantly, and then leave the game because “there’s nothing else to do”, probably move to another game, and “chances” are you will get too busy with it to come back. While you are still playing the game a little every day, they introduce new items/events etc once a while to keep you entertained and stay. Is this better than WoW “grind like crazy with no life all day long forever for my gears and repeat it when new expansion comes out”?

Play a little GW2 per day and the WoW addiction goes away.

They even pay attention to even little details that players ask. Triforge amulet is just 1 item, by popular demand of those who have it(a thread with 30 posts only yes!), it can now be promoted to ascended. And those who have it are rewarded by being practically the only ones with an ascended amulet right now(i doubt anyone has enough daily laurels to buy an ascended amulet yet during the past 3 days eh?), this is a waiting game afterall.

Another philosophy i strongly suggest Arenanet to adopt though is
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!

tl;dr When It’s Ready!

Oh please don’t even…

Then why did they add ascended gear and now faundrls?

stallhorn.1836:

Thanks AN, for making the dailys grind worse. Some of us work, have families, and are not locked in our mother’s basement playing for hours a day.

Oh yeah, While Im at it. Here is a shock for the DEVs. Not all of us play PvP. craft, or use dodge that often (prefer fast kills). You can add rezing to the list of stuff recently added to the grind, that take more time.

By adding things we dont do to the daily grind, you have made some of us with limited time, non players.

Hi I have an entire thread about this. Please take your great thoughts and add it to it =)

darkace.8925:

Revolution.6301:

I have. And they find that it assuming that you are trying to use what is left of it on the floor.

Ah, I see. I mistakenly thought you sincerely believed the stuff you’ve been posting. I see now what this is. And as I don’t wish to waste any more of my time, I’ll bid you adieu.

I don’t know how to retort against a statment that means nothing?

ShaeMtal.9473:

BobbyT.7192:

ShaeMtal.9473:

darkace.8925:

Revolution.6301:

I need exotic. Why? It is called STATS. If you didn’t know exotic has better stats no comment.
I’d refer you to the wiki but I’m a bit lazy.

Aaaaaaaand you’ve (unsurprisingly) once again failed to respond to the most important issue at hand. In what aspect of the game can I not participate unless I’m wearing exotic armor? I’m BEGGING you to answer that question. You won’t, because you can’t. To do so destroys the entire premise of your argument.

Revolution.6301:

Also Dark your have committed so many logical fallacies anything you say comes into question.

I tell you what. Since you’re “at university”, why don’t you show this entire thread to your university’s debate team and ask them who presented the stronger argument?

Except people will notice a difference in groups and group based challanges. That person will be a liability to the group if he does not have full exotic. To try to say that players do not bother with this minor detail is wrong. If we go doing dungeons, we will notice one guy wearing greens. It’s doable, but you will have to carry his load.

Helping guildies along like this is always an option, but dont think that everyone will be that overbearing, esp after the 15th time that person gets ressed in a pug with the new waypoint change.

Yes you can do it, but you will be worse off for it.

Been in TA ex(recommended lvl 55) where a level 49 did better than two level 80 in full exotics, done arah story in full 80 green before, and a guildy gone to fotm 18 with 0 AR, I am a firm believer that skill is better than stats, and that there is very little between rares and exotic.
Sure newbies will not have the best of gears but they don’t have the skills to rely on yet.
Those that are good will have exotic anyways, while those that say they need exotics are using it as a cruch for their low skill level.

Not quite sure how a 49 would enter TA tho? Or does it trigger the enter prompt the same way that persons who havent done story gets into exp?
And yes, as I said its doable, but are these your avarage pug players? Pulling that off would require a fair bit more skill than your regular casual has. I do not think that the fact that skilled players being able to pull things like this off=gear being trivial.
Gear makes the game accesible to the wider audience, not just the few who have the pure skill required to make it work while being gimped.

The dedicated players will stay, they will find new challanges and ways to challenge themselves even if the gear was easy to get. The casual who make up the meat of the population might just as well get fed up and leave for good when they hit what they might see as a barrier made out of gear and costs.

As i stated earlier, I want a big active population as that is what will do the game the most good in the long run as I see it, not a game centered around what the hardcore elite players thinks the rest should live up to.

And this one of the main worries. Those that have commented against us ether enjoy playing grind -which is fine or think playing 5 hours a day is ‘casual’. Sure if I played 5 hours a day then 100 gold wouldn’t be much to me at all. But I don’t.

darkace.8925:

Revolution.6301:

I need exotic. Why? It is called STATS. If you didn’t know exotic has better stats no comment.
I’d refer you to the wiki but I’m a bit lazy.

Aaaaaaaand you’ve (unsurprisingly) once again failed to respond to the most important issue at hand. In what aspect of the game can I not participate unless I’m wearing exotic armor? I’m BEGGING you to answer that question. You won’t, because you can’t. To do so destroys the entire premise of your argument.

Revolution.6301:

Also Dark your have committed so many logical fallacies anything you say comes into question.

I tell you what. Since you’re “at university”, why don’t you show this entire thread to your university’s debate team and ask them who presented the stronger argument?

I have. And they find that it assuming that you are trying to use what is left of it on the floor.

@ShaeMtal
I farm tunnel, with MF gear (not sure if it helps but it doesn’t hurt) And I invest a bit. Investing wise I probably in a week got an extra 6-7 gold?

ShaeMtal.9473:

Ansultares.1567:

ShaeMtal.9473:

I Find it i find it slightly amusing that people are so defensive when they keep saying endgame equipment is cheap and easy to get, yet they do so from their perspective.

Each of the dungeon sets I farmed involved sufficient grind that I’m sure a casual would start complaining.

As for level 80 exotics, last I saw they had come up in price quite dramatically since release. I could easily see a new player hitting 80 with insufficient gold to gear up, and several dozen hours of grind ahead of them.

It’d be nice if people stopped acting like you were handed a full set of 80 exotics of the stats of your choosing as soon as you hit level 80.

Indeed, my concern isnt for us avarage forum goers who have dedicated ourseles to this game above the avarage player. I’m worried how the grey mass of the game is doing, seeing we dont hear from them.

As for revolution claming he had 50g by 51% mapping;

You’re just as bad when it comes to giving off some pretty awesome numbers.

50% map completion; say half of the hearts completed; 150. Let’s say you get 4 silver each, which is obviously QUITE generous, thats 600 silver.. OR 6g. Let’s asume you’ve done 300 events, which we give the generous sum of 5 silver just to help you along; 1500s or 15g. So at that point, map completion adds to maybe 21g with quite some generous numbers. So, question is, what kind of awesome drops have you been getting from level 1-80 during this mapping that earned you another 29g, which a casual player who dosnt farm things until DR and cramps take him get?

Cause, I would verymuch like to know what I should be doing while leveling my next char that will see that kind of income.

Ohhh no people have misunderstood what I said.

I have 51 gold by grinding. I just happened to have compelte 51% of my map to. Map money wise I had around 5 gold.

kokocabana.8153:

It’s Revolution that is starting these grind threads to troll. He’s going to use that stupid quote from ANet about not making grindy games. That quote is taken out of context. They don’t want a game that makes you grind for better statted items that give an advantage over those that don’t. Grinding for vanity items like armor skins and dyes does not count because they don’t affect the game.

Then why is getting the stats you want so expensive?

critickitten.1498:

Suddenflame.2601:

Your forgetting the date on when that was said in the blog. It says 2010 so 2yrs before the games release. Hell it wasnt even in Alpha testing then let alone beta testing. Things change in 2yrs and miracously the only thing that changed was Account bound to Soulbound. Usually in those 2 years something massive changes. They wanted it to be more like GW1 but even better still. Just be happy they didnt make it exactly like GW1 dyes considering how costly they would be if they did.

You obviously weren’t around before August, so allow me to explain a few things to you.

1) The game was originally announced in 2007. There were several playable demos of the game available by 2010 shown off at several major conventions, a policy which continued all through 2011.

So the narrative that the game “wasn’t even in alpha” is completely false. It was actively playable in a limited form by the general public as early as 2010, and they had several closed/press betas in 2011 prior to the open betas of 2012.

2) The original dye system shown in the first open beta weekend was nothing like the one in the game right now.

During the first beta weekend event, players were required to obtain Colorful Dye Seeds that required cultivation back in the “Home” area. Cultivation took either 24 real world hours, or the purchase of an item from the Gem shop. Once cultivated it would drop a soulbound, unidentified dye; that dye would unlock a new color. This system has since been replaced.

Notice that I’m not complaining about the fact that the dye system is no longer like that (probably because the old system was inferior to the current one), but I am complaining about the fact that it has gone from account-bound to soulbound (probably because they changed a good thing into something that is inferior).

Developers are totally allowed to change their minds. It is their game. But the paying public has every right to ask for a reason, and the devs do owe them an honest answer, especially if they promised it would be handled differently. The lack of response to this and many other perceived “negatives” about the game is part of what fueled all of this mistrust between devs and players to begin with.

Coming clean would be a good step towards real communication.

That’s the point. Why the change?

Also next to disagree with me must prove that you can get STATS cheaply. This was in Anet Manifesto. If you can’t prove I’m wrong then this game has to much grind. And that’ll be that.

To: ShaeMtal

Wow you understand the point of my argument. You my man deserve +1 trillion.
I wish though still the game was more accessabile to casuals still.

darkace.8925:

Revolution.6301:

Okay!! You called me out on it. Anet said they are fine with consmetic skin grinds!

But not stat which is most of my argument. If you look at a build alone assuming you will buy the cheapest exoctic that has your stat and this includes jewelry etc. It is still around (give or take 5 gold or so) 70 gold.

No one can deny this since its truth.

You’re once again ignoring the key point to this whole discussion. Want vs need. You want a full set of exotic armor. You do not need a full set of exotic armor. Let me ask you this; what can you do in a 70 gold set of exotic armor that I cannot do in a 5 gold set of rare armor?

If your answer is “nothing”, then you’ve destroyed your original premise that the game “requires too much grind”. If your answer is anything else, then you’ve proven yourself to be, willfully or not, ignorant to the facts (at best) or blatantly dishonest (at worst).

You can continue to spin the facts any way you wish, but seeing as you continually dodge the key points presented against your argument I’m going to assume that you’ve got nothing substantial with which to defend your argument.

I need exotic. Why? It is called STATS. If you didn’t know exotic has better stats no comment.
I’d refer you to the wiki but I’m a bit lazy.
Also Dark your have committed so many logical fallacies anything you say comes into question.

You are missing my point.

Okay now I will compare this to the only game is SHOULD be compared to.

Guild Wars 1

In the original guildwars it was brainless to get the stats. The looks like prestige armor took a while or took incredible investing. But getting my stats the way I wanted them was easy. You didn’t need alot of money or time.

The skins however were. But that is fine! I was okay with going after some of the prestige armor and what not. And Anet designed it in a manor where I could over 10 different methods of getting it.

There was so many different kinds of grinds you can do that basically yielded the same amount. Of course some were better then others but that was only because you needed a good understanding of enemy AI. PvP actually was profitble! Go figure…

Now I know about dungeons but I’m going after somthing that costs money. So why is Tunnel the ONLY method? How difficult would it be to grind in other areas. You know with green hills with lush forests around them. Or snowy mountains or rocky terrein. Tunnel is the most effective way, just because of how convient it is. I thought this game was about DE for PvE for the most part. I feel that that so much content lacks purpose once your lv 80 and have done the hearts in the area.

Look I’d be complaining less if I did not see ZOMBIES fps ZOMBIES constantly. I want to see heck even centuars. Or those walking forest monsters, just somthing different.

Also I you all to keep in mind that even these armors, weapon skins took less time then the ones in this game do.

Okay!! You called me out on it. Anet said they are fine with consmetic skin grinds!

But not stat which is most of my argument. If you look at a build alone assuming you will buy the cheapest exoctic that has your stat and this includes jewelry etc. It is still around (give or take 5 gold or so) 70 gold.

No one can deny this since its truth.

BlackestKnight.1278:

morrolan.9608:

No you can’t.

Then how come I had BiS items lying in my inventory, ready to equip, when I was level 79 ?

morrolan.9608:

The fact that the grind isn’t as bad as some other games doesn’t mean there is no grind.

I think you’re missing the word “REQUIRE” from the OP. There is a grind, but it’s completely optional (not one can say with a straight face that Ascended Quivers/Books aren’t a grind compared to the Capacitators and the Legendaries are a grind…).

You don’t need to grind and you’ll be on equal footing to a player who does grind. Hence NO GRIND IS REQUIRED.

Compared to other games where grinding is the name of the game.

So its not required?
I want the best stats. Heck lets ignore looks completely, that includes dyes and armor.
The cost is STILL around 70G.
Add up the runes, exoctic armor, jewelry, rings etc and buying traits, weapons too. (In my case thats 3 weapons (A greatsword, normal sword + torch).

This is what Anet said that intially they were account bound then changed it to character bound? Why? This only increases the price of them and further increase the grind in the game.
This is a direct contridiction to their manifesto.

darkace.8925:

Revolution.6301:

This is NOT WoW. As far as I’m aware this is not WoW. Tell if I’m wrong though.

This is GuildWars 2. I’m talking about as far Gw2 is concerned this is grind.

You keep on this logical fallancy. You keep on doing this: You compare A to B even though A has some of B’s faults A is not that bad.

The fact is A has faults. That does not give A an excuse.

So it’s a logical fallacy to compare A to B? Okay…

Revolution.6301:

This is way to much gold. In Gw1 you wouldn’t spend so long getting the stats heck they were so cheap people even gave them away or it would only cost around 3k (which was like 1.5 gold here)

So there’s that. And then there’s this…

Revolution.6301:

You need around 75-100 gold to get the stats, armor, runes, jewelery etc. you need. This is way to much gold. In Gw1 you wouldn’t spend so long getting the stats heck they were so cheap people even gave them away or it would only cost around 3k (which was like 1.5 gold here)

Revolution.6301:

No map completion isn’t grind since you do different things. I even have 50 gold atm. But I realized that I’d need 100 to get the stats/armor/armor looks (dye included) I want. THEN what? Grind another 2300 for a legend? I mean cmon… that is pratically my only option.

Which is it? Is it gear your need? Or is it gear you want?

Revolution.6301:

Heck I’d like to go to FOTM but:
1. Eventually I would need a aginy resist item which costs alot of time and money.

There you go again with that word, “need”. If people needed agony resist items to run FotM, then nobody would have been able to run them when they were first introduced.

Revolution.6301:

2. I’m a University student and simply can’t put 2 hours into a run.
I played it once and found it fantastic but realistically I can’t put that much time in.

I say this with all due respect, but judging by your posts, filled with “ME! NOW!” borderline hysteria, childish “I know you are, but what am I” retorts when called out for multiple contradictions and logical fallacies, and a general lack of care to any kind of proper grammar or spelling, I never would have guessed you for a university student.

You are attacking grammer. As far as I am aware grammer does not demonstrate intelligence. It only displays whether someone can spell or not. And this is another logical fallacy called equivocation. You are bringing in an irrelevent topic to try to sway the way people judge mine.

The kine of armor I want? Knights because I’m a guardian who hates the idea of healing.
You don’t need agony? Really so when you are 1 shotted by the end boss that’s okay?

If this game was marketed towards people like you fine. I would not complain heck that is why in a game like Maplestory that is marketed towards people who like grind I never complain since THAT is the Manifesto.

The manifesto is key when targetting said market. I am a casual. I have around an hour a day to play then I study the rest.

And as someone stated Dyes. Why are dyes NOT account bound? That is somthing Anet specifically stated. This is a direct contridtion that only funnels the grind.

BlackestKnight.1278:

Revolution.6301:

again your comparing this wow. That is the same logical fallacy everyone else is using.

This is not wow this is Gw2.

You need around 75-100 gold to get the stats, armor, runes, jewelery etc. you need. This is way to much gold. In Gw1 you wouldn’t spend so long getting the stats heck they were so cheap people even gave them away or it would only cost around 3k (which was like 1.5 gold here)

You should have had most of that leveling up to 80. Did you even level up to 80 ? Or was that a grind too ?

Heck, just finishing up 100% Map completion should give you pretty much the rest. I still don’t have 100% Map completion btw, the Orr zones are especially rewarding (Cursed Shore netted me about 8g as a reward for 100% map).

Or do you consider that a grind too ?

I think your problem is you don’t like MMORPGs. Maybe a good game of Counterstrike or Halo is more to your liking.

Actually I did finish the story and I’m at 51% map completion.

No map completion isn’t grind since you do different things. I even have 50 gold atm. But I realized that I’d need 100 to get the stats/armor/armor looks (dye included) I want. THEN what? Grind another 2300 for a legend? I mean cmon… that is pratically my only option.
Heck I’d like to go to FOTM but:
1. Eventually I would need a aginy resist item which costs alot of time and money.
2. I’m a University student and simply can’t put 2 hours into a run.
I played it once and found it fantastic but realistically I can’t put that much time in.

Really before I realized I would be stuck doing the Tunnel I did not consider this game much of a grind. It was when I realized to get stats, JUST THE STATS I want is around 60g. That is obsurd and ridicilous.

Apparently even though this game was marketed towards people who like to think its now being pushed in the grindwars direction. Its a fact sadly that sucks.

Abbehemoth.2471:

Revolution.6301:

1. Legendary weapon grind

FAR from mandatory..

2. Gold Grind – you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build and armor you want. If you want any of the ‘special’ weapon look at grinding out atleast another 300-500 gold (legend range for a min of 1.5k to 2.5k) -unless your brilliant at investing or lucky your looking at around 50-60 hours of grinding to get the armor and build you want. Ironically in GW1 which was ‘suppose’ to be more of a grind this was alot simplier and easier.

I bought my armor and weapon with dungeon Thropies, the only part that cost money was the sigils which I bought instead of crafted due to laziness

Another key point of their manifesto was no gear grind as of now there is:
1. Ascended gear (what?! isn’t this what they said WOULD NOT happen? Did they not say how they disproved of this? How the game should be about having fun?)

You do not need to get this unless you play alot of fractals in which case you will be given the things needed from playing them, what is the problem here?

They already stated they tend to add more gear grinds later how (Why? The game was released for only 3 months and Anet felt they had to add in a gear grind already?) I can’t imagine what will happen in a year from now.

Really bad of them to add a kinda of experience of gear check for the higher level fractals, really bad. It will surely lower everybodies gameplay. Again why do you neeed this gear unless you play alot of fractals?

2. Karma gear -to get one set of karma get you need atleast 240k karma. Yeah for the above avg. causal – to hardcore this is possible but for us casuals this is NOT possible in a reasonable amount of time.

I have a tip for you: Dailies, do them. Also try to do you monthly but otherwise do you daily and then procede to do nothing which is the only way to not earn karma reasonably fast.

And finally did they not state how this was directed towards everyday? People who simply do not have the time to put in 100s of hours into the game? The information given above tends to differ.

WHY do a person need this new “omg super amazing but really not” gear if they do not participate in that part of the game very much?

What I don’t understand and what the community in general is confused about is why this game was marked towards people who don’t like grind. Simple put, why not market it towards the people that love grind? (not saying that is bad but it is a completly different market)

Unless you chose to grind there is NO reason to actually do that. YOU chose what YOU want to tdo in nthe game you can play anything wihtout grinding, you can play the game naked if you so chose nobody is forcing you to do anything ever in this game.

I am really beyond confused as to WHY people feel they need to have everything including a freaking legendary in order to not have a inferiority complex of enormous proportions.

And how many hours a day do you to play? ….

I’m talking on behave of the target MARKET. You guys are the grinding market which is FINE but this game was ment for the causals!! Not you. If this game marketed itself towards you then I would not complain.

And if grind and gear progression was not an issue then why did so many people get angry over ascended gear then?

Did.2683:

I will never, ever understand people who complain about the “mandatory grind” for ascended gear.

In WoW, you have to fully replace all of your gear every few months or you will be useless.

In GW2, people who enjoy grinding have the option of grinding for a shiny pink piece of gear with a miniscule stat advantage, and people who don’t want to grind will continue to get along just fine with their rares and exotics.

The only place where ascended gear is “mandatory” is high level fractals, and even so, it’s possible to progress very far into fractals without a single point of agony resist on you. By the time you reach high level fractals, you should have acquired more than enough materials to buy or craft ascended gear, so I don’t see that much grind there. It’s not like you have to go stand around in a field killing boars for ten hours to get your gear. Or is running a fun dungeon multiple times also considered a grind to you people?

If you think a 0.001% increase in damage is so vital that you simply must subject yourself to this ever so torturous grind to get a slightly better piece of gear, then you have no one to blame but yourself for your “suffering”.

This is NOT WoW. As far as I’m aware this is not WoW. Tell if I’m wrong though.

This is GuildWars 2. I’m talking about as far Gw2 is concerned this is grind.

You keep on this logical fallancy. You keep on doing this: You compare A to B even though A has some of B’s faults A is not that bad.

The fact is A has faults. That does not give A an excuse.

darkace.8925:

Revolution.6301:

Actually I’m not committing a logical falacy since this is GuildWar’s sequal. It is relevent hence forth. It is suppose to improve on it not go backwards.

Actually, you are. And you’re committing another logical fallacy by assuming that your opinion that this game is worse than its predecessor is shared by everyone.

no actually you are commiting that assuming that your opinion represents everyone.

darkace.8925:

Revolution.6301:

again your comparing this wow. That is the same logical fallacy everyone else is using.

This is not wow this is Gw2.

You need around 75-100 gold to get the stats, armor, runes, jewelery etc. you need. This is way to much gold.

Again you’re stating your opinion as fact. You say 75-100 gold is too much to get the stats, armor, runes, jewelry, etc, you need is too much. I don’t share that opinion. By the way, you don’t need those stats, you want those stats. There’s a HUGE difference.

Again you’re comparing this game to GW. That is the same logical fallacy everyone else is using.

This is GW2, not GW. [/quote]

Actually I’m not committing a logical falacy since this is GuildWar’s sequal. It is relevent hence forth. It is suppose to improve on it not go backwards.

Anat.1765:

Taking time and effort to get what you “want” is not grind to me, it’s goals you can choose to have or not. With very little effort you can be a viable max level toon with top gear. Compare that to WOW, where if you don’t play for a few months, you will very quickly be under-powered, unwanted, and researching what grind you “have” to do just to play.

again your comparing this wow. That is the same logical fallacy everyone else is using.

This is not wow this is Gw2.

You need around 75-100 gold to get the stats, armor, runes, jewelery etc. you need. This is way to much gold. In Gw1 you wouldn’t spend so long getting the stats heck they were so cheap people even gave them away or it would only cost around 3k (which was like 1.5 gold here)

You are all missing my point.

You are using this type of argument You can’t judgme me! Look at what she did! argument. This is a logical fallacy.

The manifesto claimed there would be no grind. I know that there would be still be a little bit but this is overwhelming.

If the game DID NOT claim this I would not have the right to complain.

BlackestKnight.1278:

Wait, 240k Karma is hard ? I had that much and more after hitting level 80 just from leveling up a single main character. I outright bought 4/5 Karma vendor gear without blinking or farming karma once and I still have 180k left on my character. I have no clue what to do with the junk.

I then transmuted all those Karma items (with the wrong stats) over to my crafted exotic gear which I got like 1 week after hitting 80. I ran FotM in pugs up to level 31, got my Ascended backpiece and 2 Ascended rings, 30 Agony resist because I threw them into the MF to get them (infused) all in little under 2 months of playing this game.

I also skinned my crafted weapons with dungeon skins, all of them. Oh yeah and I used some Karma for Ebonhawke skins. Reskinned my bow 3 times. I have a abyss dye, pitch, and midnight purple design I like a lot, all bought off the TP.

With no alts to help with dailies or other crud (multiple map completion).

And you’re saying this game is grindy ? I haven’t even started grinding for anything and already I’m full exotics, 3/4 Ascended, infused, superior runes, exotic jewels, heck exotic underwater weaponery.

No seriously, I played Vanilla WoW. A year into it, I was just barely getting into a guild competent enough to run Molten Core up to Rag (not on farm) in 3 nights. I was pigeonholed into a buff/cleanse/healbot because “That’s what Paladins do”. After 6 months of running Molten Core, I still didn’t have 8/8 Lawbringer. I still wasn’t BiS (and far from it seeing how Blackwing Lair was already launched).

And you say GW2 IS GRINDY ?

Get over yourself, this game is casual city. It’s a freaking walk in the park. Heck, the only way to make “less grindy” at this point is to basically mail you the Exotics you want out of a catalog, all free, the minute you zone into Shaemoor on day 1 or something.

You my friend would be a higher casual. You can’t say you casual. So yes for someone who can spend around 4-5 hours a day playing sure I guess there isn’t as much but that is NOT the point. I can only play an hour or so a day those are the people the game was targetted too.

Erasculio.2914:

The game still has more grind than it should have.

However, the OP is, as others have mentioned, wrong. ArenaNet had to add a system that punishes grind, so grinders wouldn’t have more gold than casual players and thus add inflation to the game; and they did add such a system, seen as DR. ArenaNet had to add ways to allow people to get items by playing the content they enjoy playing, as opposed to grinding, and they did:

• If you enjoy dungeons, you can get your exotic equipment through dungeon tokens.

• If you enjoy dynamic events, you can get your exotic equipment through karma after doing the Temple events in Orr.

• If you enjoy crafting, you can craft your exotic equipment.

• If you enjoy WvW, you can get your exotic equipment through badges of honor.

• If you enjoy exploring, you can use karma and you also get items from map completition.

• If you don’t like dungeons or dynamic events or crafting or WvW or exploring, then you don’t like the PvE part of the game anyway – why are you even concerned about PvE rewards?

This is exactly how the game should be. There are still a lot of flaws in the system, Ascended gear was really a bad idea and very poorly implemented, the TP has been exploited to death by market manipulators, and there are still too many rewards for grinding, but the proper foundation is there. ArenaNet just has to keep moving in the right direction.

You have given me 2 PvE options to grind. In Gw2 there were several in prof alone. And farming karma really? How long does it take for a casual player to get 240k karma. Cmon please…

And I have made some points that you avoided such as the clam that the game will be an everchanging world and a few others.

Sphinx Jinx.2713:

To OP.
I suppose Legendary weapons are such a grind to get because if they were easy to get then everyone would have them and they wouldn’t be special anymore; Over time, they will get cheaper as more circulate, like it did with the rare skins in GW1. This is the same for Culture Armor, it is so expensive and feels like a gold grind to get, but that’s what makes it rewarding I guess? However, a lot of the culture armor is so so wrong, (but that’s another discussion ^^)
What I loved about GW1 was Zaishen Keys! I was a Random Arena addict and when they added Z Keys I could get rich easily and it didn’t feel like grinding. However, GW2 has made PvP and PvE very separate this time around. I hear from a lot of people “What is the use in PvP if it doesn’t effect my PvE character in anyway?”
My aim on GW1 was to get all the best gear to show off in RA, but now I can only do this in WvW. I suppose they have introduced transferring skins into PvP now, but does that mean I have to buy Culture tier 3 twice? Haha!

At least if they don’t re-add something similar to Z-Keys then, maybe they could add something else that gets you rich without it feeling like you’re farming or grinding. Because doing PvP to get lots of money on GW1, never felt dull for me.

Also another great point. I played Gw1 and I didn’t mind grinding away why?
Because there were more then 3 OPTIONS. I could pvp, UW, Urgoz etc. There were so many options and so if I was bored with 1 I’d move to another. I could even try and get hero armor items to sell. That is what I thought was so great, that if you thought “Enough of UW!” you could actually go to HA for instance but now if I think “Enough of Tunnel!” I then realize “Oh shoot there is only Tunnel”. (I don’t count Fotm because it is not as easily accessable as Tunnel)
There is no point on doing pvp for money since you get almost nothing so, playing PvE is much faster

In general I think we all want some kind of explination. Why the change? Will it be fixed? If we all remain calm like we have been and don’t start to flame HOPEFULLY Anet will listen.

I was talking with a ingame friend who is at Fotm 37 and he made a good point “Once I get my legendary I’ll probably quit”. Is that the only point? What about the everchanging world? I know you should not believe all the hype but they’ve done things completly contrary to what almost EVERY press meeting was about. GW2 was suppose to be a revolution, imo its more of a medium renevation. A revolution would be take what made Gw1 amazing and expand on it further.

Why was my title changed? I and the majority of the community do feel like they were lied to.

fellyn.5083:

Revolution.6301:

Hi I like the rest of you bought into this game but I feel like I was punched in the gut and laughed at.
This game was suppose to built on not having grind. This was one of Anet’s key manifesto points however now:
1. Legendary weapon grind
2. Gold Grind – you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build and armor you want. If you want any of the ‘special’ weapon look at grinding out atleast another 300-500 gold (legend range for a min of 1.5k to 2.5k) -unless your brilliant at investing or lucky your looking at around 50-60 hours of grinding to get the armor and build you want. Ironically in GW1 which was ‘suppose’ to be more of a grind this was alot simplier and easier.
Another key point of their manifesto was no gear grind as of now there is:
1. Ascended gear (what?! isn’t this what they said WOULD NOT happen? Did they not say how they disproved of this? How the game should be about having fun?)
They already stated they tend to add more gear grinds later how (Why? The game was released for only 3 months and Anet felt they had to add in a gear grind already?) I can’t imagine what will happen in a year from now.
2. Karma gear -to get one set of karma get you need atleast 240k karma. Yeah for the above avg. causal – to hardcore this is possible but for us casuals this is NOT possible in a reasonable amount of time.

And finally did they not state how this was directed towards everyday? People who simply do not have the time to put in 100s of hours into the game? The information given above tends to differ.
What I don’t understand and what the community in general is confused about is why this game was marked towards people who don’t like grind. Simple put, why not market it towards the people that love grind? (not saying that is bad but it is a completly different market)

How can anyone take you seriously when you so completely exaggerate. It takes nowhere near 100g to get a character kitted out in full exotics.

Just run some dungeons and you can get a full set of exotic armor inside of a week playing 1-2 hours a day. Compared to what it was at launch that’s nothing. And outside of repair costs that requires 0 gold.

I’m talking about exotics that look the way you want them to. So add in Dye(s) and runes and my cost also includes jewlews and rings and backpacks etc.

jayekaiser.5174:

Revolution.6301:

2. Gold Grind – you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build and armor you want.

You can’t be serious with this statement.

how am I wrong then?

Let me break it down:
Armor = 10-30G (again depends) (I particular want a 25g armor)
Dye = around 10G (I’d like black and silver)
Runes = 25-30G range (depends on the kind you want)
5G = traits
Then if you add on the cost of jewlers and rings (25-30G) you get 100G

Now I am serious and realistic.

Latsch.6874:

4. So called “Balance” Patches:
- They nerv shining proffessions without giving any kind of compensation, lowering the Damage but still have high Intiative/Cooldown Costs
- No stability for Builds, one day its a good build, on the next week its complete patch destroyed -> time investement loss (and it doesn’t STOP just look at the introduced ascended gear without even asking the comunity about it in the first place)
no one likes surprises
- AOE Boon and Damage – Max. People nervs, ruin Strategy in pve and wvw: no party pfererence over random people, take away ambush stealth strategy of large groups and surprise attacs in wvw.
- Allways incomplete Pre-Patches which include actually more Steps to work properly break the game in the meantime

6. Dungeons:
- Fail Instance Design: Whipe Partys if the Party leader leaves or the one who opened the Instance leaves, in both cases the immense invested time goes down the toilet -> Just pass over the leadership/story progressor to a random next person in the group
- Fail Party Design: Voting for Kicking just require 1 person to approve, not the majority -> safety from kick abusing only for party leaders? how fair is that?
- Fail Waypoint Return while someone is in combat while the Still in Combat mode length is way too long and doesn’t reset properly

Let’s see how many waypoints will get implemented as compensation which will not be used anyway if revivng is needed. >_>

7. WvW:
- No proper Log Out handling: Just punish People = Kill them instantly with Repair Costs, for the incompetency of development. If its actually proper handled everywhere else with just letting the character simply present. If there was an enemy it would kill him anyways, if not there would be no punishment.
- Endless Running and smaking on doors philosophy
- No rewards for defending

7.5 PvP:
- No Guild vs Guild PvP
- No 1 vs 1 PVP
- Differenciated Skill Damage/Impact as in PVE, which prevents of people learn they classes properly
- No Chance for 1 vs Many-Combat because of downed system, if you ask me they should remove it in pvp only!

8. Economy:
- No proper 15% Fee display on black lion, only 10% display of actual 15%!
- Flooded economy with unappropriate prized items (too low sold)
- No discription about Fist Placed -> First Sold, BUT Last Bid -> First Bought causes inbalance
- Not enough selction possiblites in Black Lion (No difference between heavy, light, medium armor)
- crafting only as money sink, no usefull Items to craft in the first place, all Gear becomes useless on the next day because you outlevel it faster than you can gather material for it to craft, only needed for Legendary

9. General PVE:
- Inappropriate low rewards for completing Hearts / Events
- Inappropriate Loot drops which cant be worn by your proffession
- Horrible Gear Design
- No underflow Handling for deserted Areas / Maps on the Corner of the World
- No party finding System for General PVE areas

10. Combat System:
- Critical Build are preferenced over Condition Builds, some Condition stack only duration and those who stack intensivity are capped buy 25 Stacks -> this speaks for itself
- The need to Loot in the first place, why not simply put everything in the inventory from the start, often you end up dead before you get rewards for succeeding
- DC -> loosing Loot issue, really annoying in Dungeons if you manage to DC right before the Boss is dead, which happens surprisingly often like this game wants it exactly then to happen or maybe because of data transfer overload on the game side, usually its not because of the bad internet connection
- underwater fights, simply optional and not fun
- as mentioned before often you stuck in combat mode for no reason
- too many useless traits

So if you ask me this game manages to game breaking fail in every aspekt and corner
Feel free to complete

well some I disagree with for the most part your right. Oh yeah I forgot about the ingame home, good point what was the point of it?
But I do like underwater fighting.

Raf.1078:

“Punched in the gut”? Really?…..its just a game. Not being a bit overly dramatic are you?

Before online gaming got popular, how many of us blew 50-60 bucks for whatever game in a box looked interesting? And we either like it a lot, a little or outright hated it…and it was consigned to the ever growing pile of little used game boxes on a shelf.

And never gave it much thought other than…“Hmmph, didn’t like that as much as I thought I would. Oh well…”

Now, for whatever reasons..its like its the end of the known world if a game isn’t quite what you expected. I gotta say..I just don’t understand you people at all.

Also, you can craft an exotic set for 5 or 6 gold if you’ve played the game to 80 and harvested as you went along.

Punched in the gut is an idom. Look it up.

jwburks.9735:

SonicTHI.3217:

Of all the points listed by the OP only the ascended gear is the actual problem.

Yes exotics do take some time to get but as in the original promise of the game once you get them you are set. After nov 15th however that however is a lie.

Unfortunately right. It also broke the loot drops for some people, and those unaffected refuse to believe it.

And honestly if this game was a couple of years old and ascended came I wouldn’t have complained. Heck even welcomed it. But 3 months after the game realeases ONLY 3 months and new gear already? Seriously?

Raf.1078:

“Punched in the gut”? Really?…..its just a game. Not being a bit overly dramatic are you?

Before online gaming got popular, how many of us blew 50-60 bucks for whatever game in a box looked interesting? And we either like it a lot, a little or outright hated it…and it was consigned to the ever growing pile of little used game boxes on a shelf.

And never gave it much thought other than…“Hmmph, didn’t like that as much as I thought I would. Oh well…”

Now, for whatever reasons..its like its the end of the known world if a game isn’t quite what you expected. I gotta say..I just don’t understand you people at all.

Also, you can craft an exotic set for 5 or 6 gold if you’ve played the game to 80 and harvested as you went along.

tell me what set you can craft for 5 to 6 gold. Seriously and I’ll admit your right. O wait…

Eilianna.4921:

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet

@Nabrok, yes they did say exactly that. EXACTLY WORD FOR WORD.

There we go! So I didn’t just think I read somthing like this somewhere.

Hi I like the rest of you bought into this game but I feel like I was punched in the gut and laughed at.
This game was suppose to built on not having grind. This was one of Anet’s key manifesto points however now:
1. Legendary weapon grind
2. Gold Grind – you need atleast 100 gold for the ideal build and armor you want. If you want any of the ‘special’ weapon look at grinding out atleast another 300-500 gold (legend range for a min of 1.5k to 2.5k) -unless your brilliant at investing or lucky your looking at around 50-60 hours of grinding to get the armor and build you want. Ironically in GW1 which was ‘suppose’ to be more of a grind this was alot simplier and easier.
Another key point of their manifesto was no gear grind as of now there is:
1. Ascended gear (what?! isn’t this what they said WOULD NOT happen? Did they not say how they disproved of this? How the game should be about having fun?)
They already stated they tend to add more gear grinds later how (Why? The game was released for only 3 months and Anet felt they had to add in a gear grind already?) I can’t imagine what will happen in a year from now.
2. Karma gear -to get one set of karma get you need atleast 240k karma. Yeah for the above avg. causal – to hardcore this is possible but for us casuals this is NOT possible in a reasonable amount of time.

And finally did they not state how this was directed towards everyday? People who simply do not have the time to put in 100s of hours into the game? The information given above tends to differ.
What I don’t understand and what the community in general is confused about is why this game was marked towards people who don’t like grind. Simple put, why not market it towards the people that love grind? (not saying that is bad but it is a completly different market)

Nappychappy.7046:

^ And by the time you have 1000g everything will cost 10k gold.

Glad you having fun with the market simulator though.

yep. And funny thing is I have about 50gold and once I get 100 gold -the min if you want the build, armor you want then what? Save up another 2300 for a legend? Or try investing in somthing like skins hopeing they will rise in price to sell them ONLY to repeat this over and over again?

Cappy.2786:

Revolution.6301:

Distaste.4801:

Avatar.1923:

GW2 isnt a grinder.

you can unlock an play 100% of the content without grinding and be as good as anybody else in wvwvw.

grind is for cosmetics or increased difficulty (fotm) only.

people who grind do it because they want to.
people who complain about the grind… i better not say my opinion ill get infracted.

You most certainly cannot be as good as anyone in WvW. With the addition of Ascended you cannot be as good as everyone in WvW unless you do fractals. Currently, just to get the fractal back item you’re looking at 22 runs(at level 10). A fractal usually runs about an hour, sometimes more depending on the group/fractals. Then we get to rings, 10 runs for a guaranteed ring you want. Maybe you get lucky and get the ring(s) you want from the daily, but I think many are like me and are 0/18. So that’s 30+ hours EASILY of running the same fractals over and over again just to get the best in slot gear to be equal to those that use it for WvW. I don’t know what you call it, but I call that grinding.

Now lets get into the exotic grind and “being equal”. Say I want runes of divinity on my character. They are at least 8g a pop, 6*8= 48g just for the runes. Say you make 2g an hour, that’s 24 hours of grinding for runes. The gear itself is 3-4g and average of 14 pieces(1 offhand),42g-56g, 21-28 hours of grinding. Perhaps you want the karma armor instead, 42k at 386(iirc) karma per event, 109 events per piece of armor. Now we do have the daily karma jugs for 4,500, so if we farm 1 piece a day it’s 98 events we need to do. Even at 20 events an hour(1 event every 3 minutes) that’s 5 hours per piece and 30 hours for a set. Dunegons are the same as well, do 20+ runs of the same thing over and over to get your armor set.

This game has an incredible amount of grind. It’s ignorant to just say you can get exotics easy at level 80 for most casuals. The only cheap exotics have very bad stats so you’re not exactly equal to other players. Ascended have just pushed the grinding to another level and I’m sure the new laurel system will be exactly the same, complete 100 events for 1 laurel and 50 laurels for an item!

I agree. What is annoying me is how they BROKE their manifesto so badly. Why bother even having that kind of manifesto? Your attracting the wrong player base. Have a wow styled manifesto then you’ll attrack the grinding player base.

Or how about you actually do dungeons and EARN your gear.

because doing dungeons isn’t grinding right? :P

Distaste.4801:

Avatar.1923:

GW2 isnt a grinder.

you can unlock an play 100% of the content without grinding and be as good as anybody else in wvwvw.

grind is for cosmetics or increased difficulty (fotm) only.

people who grind do it because they want to.
people who complain about the grind… i better not say my opinion ill get infracted.

You most certainly cannot be as good as anyone in WvW. With the addition of Ascended you cannot be as good as everyone in WvW unless you do fractals. Currently, just to get the fractal back item you’re looking at 22 runs(at level 10). A fractal usually runs about an hour, sometimes more depending on the group/fractals. Then we get to rings, 10 runs for a guaranteed ring you want. Maybe you get lucky and get the ring(s) you want from the daily, but I think many are like me and are 0/18. So that’s 30+ hours EASILY of running the same fractals over and over again just to get the best in slot gear to be equal to those that use it for WvW. I don’t know what you call it, but I call that grinding.

Now lets get into the exotic grind and “being equal”. Say I want runes of divinity on my character. They are at least 8g a pop, 6*8= 48g just for the runes. Say you make 2g an hour, that’s 24 hours of grinding for runes. The gear itself is 3-4g and average of 14 pieces(1 offhand),42g-56g, 21-28 hours of grinding. Perhaps you want the karma armor instead, 42k at 386(iirc) karma per event, 109 events per piece of armor. Now we do have the daily karma jugs for 4,500, so if we farm 1 piece a day it’s 98 events we need to do. Even at 20 events an hour(1 event every 3 minutes) that’s 5 hours per piece and 30 hours for a set. Dunegons are the same as well, do 20+ runs of the same thing over and over to get your armor set.

This game has an incredible amount of grind. It’s ignorant to just say you can get exotics easy at level 80 for most casuals. The only cheap exotics have very bad stats so you’re not exactly equal to other players. Ascended have just pushed the grinding to another level and I’m sure the new laurel system will be exactly the same, complete 100 events for 1 laurel and 50 laurels for an item!

I agree. What is annoying me is how they BROKE their manifesto so badly. Why bother even having that kind of manifesto? Your attracting the wrong player base. Have a wow styled manifesto then you’ll attrack the grinding player base.

People stay on topic! If you want to talk about other things that is not about ether:

Orr
Orr Grind
How Orr looks like
How Orr Mobs look like
How to fix/improve grind
GuildWars 2 grind in general

Then please post elsewhere! Thank you!

killcannon.2576:

Seriously, gonna cite wikipedia? Did you even see how many citations that entry needs to be taken seriously? As it is, it’s an opinion piece. So lets use the definition of grinding you chose from an actual source. Informal. to work or study laboriously (often followed by away ): He was grinding away at his algebra.
laborious, usually uninteresting work: Copying all the footnotes was a grind. Do you realize this definition supports my post and not yours? Lets take a look at the word laborious: involving or characterized by hard or toilsome effort. If I use this definition for the word grind, I find that if a person finds the act rewarding or fun, it would no longer be considered a grind. Which supports my post. If you find your occupation rewarding or enjoyable it’s not a grind. You also mentioned teachers, but provided no citations, although I think most would agree that school is a grind, unless of course you like it. You mentioned words can only ever be objective, this is obviously false, with the easiest example being poetry, and another is how words can change meaning in the way that they are used. You accuse me of trying to redefine a term, when the term is purely subjective and has no definition except which we give to it.

If I enjoy, and find rewarding killing 10,000 mobs one after the other, it’s not a grind, it’s a game (diablo). If I don’t like that activity, it’s a grind not a game. Grind is a subjective term, that one person can not inherently define for any other person.

Also when stating an opinion, please don’t use the word we, unless you’re royalty. If that is indeed the case, then all apologies.

This is about Orr’s grinding, not if the word we is being used properly. So, tries to bring on topic what do you all think about constantly seeing zombies?

Josh.8154:

Orr in all 3 zones on Kaineng is always full of players doing the Temples. So I have never had a problem getting what I need. Yes running through Orr is a do not do. I proceed slowly and skirt the edges of the agro range to navigate Orr. That does not always work but it works 50% of the time. Orr is meant to be done in a group not solo. Get fairly better drops in a party.

that happens but not that often since doing temples doesnt make you that much money unless you get lucky and get a pre.

critickitten.1498:

Celtic Lady.3729:

-snip-

This poster nailed it.

This is why I scoff when people claim that there’s no grinding in GW2, because there most certainly is. Leveling a craft is grinding. Getting money at any rate beyond a snail’s pace is grinding. Getting materials is grinding. Running dailies is grinding. Doing JPs is grinding. Doing anything beyond Lvl 80 is a grind of some sort.

Grinding doesn’t mean “activity that you do over and over even though it’s not fun”, it means “any repetitive task, usually performed for the sake of rewards”. There are plenty of grinds in GW2.

And the common response to this is always “but all those things are optional”.

• JPs are optional.
• Legendaries and Ascended items are optional.
• Fractals and all dungeons are optional.
• WvW is optional.
• sPvP is optional.
• Crafting is optional.
• Achievements are optional.

And so on. To which I say….well, yes, all of those things are optional in the broadest sense of the term, in that no one is forcing you to do them.

However, in order to “play the game you want to” and “have fun”, many of these tasks are most certainly not optional. If going after max crafting is something you enjoy doing, you’ll be grinding to get there. If you have fun killing Orrians, you’re grinding. If you enjoy dungeon runs on a regular basis, you’re grinding. If you like Southsun Cove and go there regularly, you’re grinding. Avid WvW players are grinding, and so are sPvP players. Are you an Achievement hog? Then you’re grinding. There is no activity in the entire game that does not demand some form of repetition in order to continue “enjoying it” and “playing the game the way you want to”.

Grinding is merely defined as repetition. And there is plenty of repetition in GW2, no matter what activities you enjoy doing. The question you should be asking is not if there is grind in GW2 or not (because there is), the real question is “at what point is my grinding no longer fun?”, and that depends on the person. But for a game that proclaimed itself a “zero grind” game, it’s nowhere near being devoid of grind. And things like the weaker loot tables and in-game penalties applied to anyone who tries to farm an event only make the situation even worse.

Your right, there is grind now matter what but as you said “at what point is my grinding no longer fun?” is the point. Grinding can be made fun and enjoyable not boring and painful.

Yes someone mentioned their take on “zero grind”!! Anet needs to accept that the way they built this game that their is grind and trying to “force” people to not grind will not solve the issue.

The fact is what could have been done is money caps on how much items can be sold for could’ve been put in place (for example a pre no more then 300 gold). Then that is somewhat a step towards fixing the problem but even then 300 gold takes a while to get. Heck even getting 100 without investing in something and making 20X the profit takes a while (and I have full MF gear). (PS: I know this suggestion is far fetched but really that is the only way to “control” ingame grind, since their is no trade system (if you don’t count mail that this)).

We need ways to make the grind more fun. Anet should create an area or revamp and areas event that splash us with exciting events that have drops equivalent to tunnel but events that are so much more exciting.

Awe.1096:

Revolution.6301:

Grind doesn’t make up a game since effectively all games that are an RPG in some form have grind (even Dark Souls) but its how its applied is what makes or breaks game.

My friend and I yesturday was discussing on how detailed and intricate the game world looks but you are stuck in a city (LA) or the island (Orr). The devs put so much detail into the game it seems wasteful for those 2 areas to be the areas people are at the most. I was just looking around the beginning area and was struck by the level of detail they put into it.

All of us just want to see the world be put the use to its fullest, only less then 10% of it.

The solution is easy and was already implemented in GW1. Hard mode. In GW1 you could enter to every single zone in game with hard mode toggled. Same thing could be done in GW2 where every zone could have a mirror version filled with level 80 mobs, events and resource nodes. Perhaps it will happen one day. HM was added to GW1 few years after game release and it brought some life back into it. Might be the case for GW2 in the future.

that would be difficult since unlike guildwars this game is not ‘instanced’. No comepletly different animals + if you make a hardmore orr then the Tunnel grind will still be better.

killcannon.2576:

Wow…lol uh where to start with the latest batch of kittens. First of all the OP isn’t wrong, there needs to be more level 80 zones, I’m sure they are working on it, but currently it’s the truth. I go there everyday for a couple hours, run the event chains, chop some trees, etc etc. it’s the only place to get a reliable amount of T5 and T6 mats easily, Frostgorge is nice, but it doesn’t have quite as reliable a drop and mat farm rate as Orr. Grinding isn’t useless (gold, mats, armor drops, weapon drops), it’s how you get money, and stuff. If you actually want to craft (which you need to do to get achievements, some parts of the Legendary, just because you want to) you are going to have to grind eventually, or pay money to get stuff off the tp with gold from grinding or buying it. He isn’t complaining about the grind, just the area, and the area is pretty same-y. After awhile you start to memorize everything and one blue/brown/reefy place starts to bleed into the next Blue/brown/reefy place (seriously…water…give it a rest, it’s a friggin pain) He doesn’t want to be entitled, he wants to grind for his mats or gold or whatever. Grinding is a choice true (especially in this game), but it is a valid choice for a game, some people like it, it is a core feature of the mmo genre. I honestly think people would not play a mmo that didn’t have some form of it. And the grind here is more than worth it. You can clear five gold a day easy just farming Orr for a couple hours, or get rares to throw into the Mystic Forge, or de them for ectos.

The OP is not wrong in his statements, Orr is ugh after awhile, and we need some additional level 80 areas. He did what he should do, brought his concerns to the forum so the devs can read them. I am pretty sure they are working on it, but it doesn’t hurt to let them know when there are valid concerns either.

Grind doesn’t make up a game since effectively all games that are an RPG in some form have grind (even Dark Souls) but its how its applied is what makes or breaks game.

My friend and I yesturday was discussing on how detailed and intricate the game world looks but you are stuck in a city (LA) or the island (Orr). The devs put so much detail into the game it seems wasteful for those 2 areas to be the areas people are at the most. I was just looking around the beginning area and was struck by the level of detail they put into it.

All of us just want to see the world be put the use to its fullest, only less then 10% of it.

Mesiphidon.8324:

Revolution.6301:

The point is Anet should have easily forseen this. What has happened is quite logical, and not at all shocking. There should’ve already been more then 1 area to grind, but my point is, is the very area they chose to grind is a bleak, dead zone.

… So an area based on the theme of risen dead creatures in service to an undead dragon in the wasteland of a once magnificent empire is a bleak grey zone… You don’t say.

As to it being dead? Maybe it’s your server, the event chains in Orr here are fairly populated. The random out there parts though can be abandoned from time to time. Because well… you don’t need too and shouldn’t be grinding ‘one spot’ there. It’s really not hard to get in or find a group or ‘the group’ doing the event chains. The temples especially.

Thing is most people do the chain once or a few times then go do… other things in the world, as you were meant to do.

In a matter of a couple hours you could do some orr events kill a dragon or two and even run a dungeon if you’re so inclined. And your return on time invested for items/loot/karma/exp ect would be significantly greater then grinding one spot over and over. The game is designed this way.

In short branch out go do things. -Enjoy- the game and stop playing GW2 like WoW and thinking you need or even should be grinding. All that aside… I can’t even think of a reason you would need or want to grind Orr.

And my final point is. They shouldn’t be trying to grind Orr or anyplace at all. The game is designed to keep you from grinding. So complaining about grinding in Orr isn’t even a relevant complaint.

you missed my point. By dead it LOOKS dead. No of course there are people there, but the area looks dead hence there are no trees, rolling hills nothing!

Mesiphidon.8324:

People have become well and truly spoiled when it comes to mmos these days. The sense of entitlement especially when they feel that gear is their ‘right’ to have with minimal effort is a terrible mindset that was bred by the casual catering easy mode grindfest known as WoW.

You don’t need to grind in this game. Doing so is not optimal because it’s done intentionally as a way to discourage it. Play what you want to have fun. A concept most seem to have long since forgotten. The gear will come. And here’s the best part there isn’t a gear treadmill. Not playing for a couple weeks doesn’t put you behind the curve. You can mention ascended gear but the stat gain isn’t really that large. It’s terribly minor and the effort needed to achieve ascended gear more then makes up for the rather moderate stat ‘advantage’… which having 50 more points of stats at 80 really isn’t game breaking.

No rare cosmetic items should not be made more accessible. They are rare cosmetic items meant to be earned through hard work to show off your dedication. A personal achievement. Hence legendary weapons only being a skin more or less.

I play what I want, when I want. I enjoy wvw so I play that, I do dungeons with friends, I do spvp and I’ll help friends level alts or level my own. Never once did I grind an area for hours on end. Sometimes I’ll go a week without playing, sometimes I’ll play hardcore. The bottom line is I’m almost done with my legendary. And I haven’t done a grind even once.

It took me a week of doing dungeons casually to get a full exotic set with my chosen stats. And an additional week to make it look as I wanted cosmetically. You do not need to grind at all. Doing so is simply a foolish waste of time. The special items are meant to be special and achieved through tremendous effort because… here is the kicker. Gear doesn’t matter and getting full exotics is easy just playing casually.

The only thing I can anet needs to adjust which they said they are. Is balancing the rewards across game modes. WvW v Dungeons v Karma v Events ect. And they already said they had plans underway for such things.

Yes, we need more level 80 zones. But many of you seem to have forgotten how MMO’s operate. They come in time, with new content either patches or expansions. Apparently no one remembers there only being one ‘end game’ zone in other MMO’s such as WoW. And those zones ARE total grind fests which are… mandatory.

I have bitter memories of silithus desert in vanilla WoW… among other things. And it hasn’t gotten any better you just get a new ‘end zone’ every new content patch there.

Anet already said they plan on balancing rewards in the various game modes so seriously chill. You don’t need to grind Orr for anything. I certainly haven’t. And we’ll get new content soon enough.

The point is Anet should have easily forseen this. What has happened is quite logical, and not at all shocking. There should’ve already been more then 1 area to grind, but my point is, is the very area they chose to grind is a bleak, dead zone.

killcannon.2576:

Revolution.6301:

killcannon.2576:

Revolution.6301:

killcannon.2576:

Aedil.1296:

Paulytnz.7619:

I think that your problem is that you think you can “farm” in GW2. Honestly, Anet do NOT want people farming….

I would love to ask Anet and Paul how do u justify the existance of Magic Find sets of armor weapons sigils runes and food if Anet don’t want us to farm taking also in account the amount of money u need to create an MF set?

Anet said they don’t like grindy games, they said they don’t want us to farm, but looking at what do i have to do to get a full set of armor, or enough matherials for a legendary or to craft anything, i would say the opposite of that, and well fractals…just have no words about it many players already talked about it.

A LOT of items needs 250 ectos, 250 lodestones, cores, 250 t6 materials, to be upgraded or produced, wanna talk about the skills points too? u know how much gold u need to buy 250 kitten charged lodestones on the trading post? or the hours u need to farm just 1 with a full magic find set+weapon lucksigil+food?

I sincerly suggest the Anet team to watch again the “Anet Manifesto” couse gw2 is really not a game for Casual Players, unless they just think a casual players don’t deserve to have a satifying nice looking armor or weapon, or they just don’t deserve any exotic/ascended gear..

Last thing: people do not split only between
1 – who have time to spend playing on GW2 and nerding to get stuff
2 – who have money to spend on GW2 and buy gold with gems

There are also people who have no money and a lot of free time, too bad they have to spend most of it looking for a job they cannot find due to the infamous economical crisis (here in italy the country is down on the knees).

Sincerly

All the mats you listed are for cosmetic items, if you want to grind for cosmetics, go for it, if not…well then you don’t have to. No one is making you do it, it is player choice. The mindset that you should have cosmetic, RARE items handed to you is beyond entitled.

lets remain on topic peps.

His point is they should be more accessable. Not everyone has the time to grind several hours everyday. A simple solutition to this would be to include their drop with normal mob drop (they would still be rare but) atleast the price would not be so high.

If you wish to do a mods job, have kids.

RARE cosmetic items should not be easily accessible, that is what makes them RARE. If you don’t put the effort into it in some form, then you shouldn’t have it. None of the things that were listed impacts the ability to play the game in any way. The RARE cosmetic items are a way for people who play the game to show their dedication either in terms of game hours or money given to the devs so we can have even more content. Wanting it for free, for nothing other than showing up, is entitlement.

its okay if you have an opinion but don’t derail the thread. Please and thank you.

Look he is not asking for them to be handed but more accessable. There is a difference. And this is about Orr. And how there should be more locations to grind.

You quoted the post saying that it was an example of “getting it” “what is was about”. at no point in that post was anything mentioned about the aesthetics of Orr. So..which is it, aesthetics or the grind itself? If it is just the aesthetics, then I agree with you. Need more level 80 open world zones, regardless of grind or any other concerns. If it is the grind itself, then my other post stands.
You opened the door to my replies by quoting the post I referenced.

Wow, well I was in the wrong then. Sorry.
Your right the post is just about Orr.