Firstly, I know most of you that post in WvW are legit pro’s with over 300 WvW ranks, that said, I was hoping we could start a discussion on how to make WvW more casual (not meaning to be derogative)?
From my POV it seems with EODM, the removal of stacks, the increase in the viability of condi builds, previous WvW specialists, the removal of keep waypoints, the massive amount of updates, etc., that GW2 is focused on helping the causal players feel at home in WvW.
To develop on from this, and help anet make the best game possible, how can we, as veterans and people who actually play this gametype make it more appealing for fairweather players?
What about condi thieves? It’s that so evil?
What about our timetables? When we are more relaxed, in the night, a lot of Spanish people go to bed later than in other countries, so instead of watching tv I play gw2
What about running zergs? We look for points, not fights. Pure fights are for PVP
BB are a very toxic server to play against, I would go so far as to say the most toxic.
I can only speak for the server I play on but can assure you that 2v1ing BB is certainly not something that’s needed. Once your zombiecrew gets trained a few times they tend to log off – no need to 2v1.
I’ll get the ball rolling:
1) Zombie pvd raids when the rest of EU is asleep accounts for the vast majority of BB’s tick. I’d assume this is the main one for most people.
2) A lotttt of condi thieves
3) Your friendly hacker that flipped t3 borders in less than 10 minutes certainly didn’t help and replies of ‘deal with it’ from BB players when people brought it up definitely didn’t make them any friends!
I’m sure there’s tons more but I haven’t had a coffee yet today!
Then during the no-white-swords debacle, it was said that new features would be tested in WvW for short amounts of time. The result: no-white-swords ended up being the one and only such test.
Maybe it is because so many people complained about the TEST event even before it happened. Some players even said they were quitting because of this test event. I’m starting to see why anet doesn’t post much in this section. No matter what they try to do people will not be happy.
Oh look.. People were not happy with the test event and you are not happy because we don’t have any other test events..
(Pre-empt: This is 100% not a personal attack + I agree the WvW forums are somewhat toxic, I think a lot of that springs from the fact that you aren’t on my server/you are all nab-cake casuals/check the WvW matchup forums)
To be fair, WvW represents 1/3 of the GW2’s endgame and hasn’t gotten even close to an equal amount of support as PvP or PvE. That people’s frustration at this after over 2 years has reached toxic levels is perhaps, imo ofc, unsurprising. Beyond that, again imo, WvW represents the only true community aspect of GW2’s and in that regard the fact the voice’s are unified in dissent against nonsense/pointless/“moar arrow cart” changes is again unsurprising.
On topic:
The GW2’s devs were responding to reddit threads about the recent WvW changes 2 days before they posted on here. For me at least that says “defuk we need tests for, we don’t even listen to the actual wvw community, we need them casuals yo”.
We are introducing new maps a new map that make small group WvW play more attractive but at the same time buffing the importance of staying with a zerg so you can actually capture T3 objectives
I really don’t understand.
People are super hype about chill but we have gotten 1 additional source of stability and no active defence. How does this change anything with the ‘focus the necro’ meta?
I really don’t understand.
People are super hype about chill but we have gotten 1, as in: one, additional source of stability and no active defense. How does this change anything with the ‘focus the necro’ meta?
what i do not seem to grasp from this thread, that does not seem to be mentioned is this;
at best you have one or two thieves with the enemy, if they are fully venomshare with extra venom applications and whatnot, that will equate to 1-2x(5×3), so in short 15-30 applications, however wells are locked at 3-5 people, so they will only catch these, they will lock them and keep killing THESE players (unless some other player manages to get closer to the centre of the wells then the ones already caught.
However, i ran trap ranger + VSthief for some time. The way Venoms work, unless changed, is that they apply 1x venom PR pulse PR skill.
So if necro dumps 2 wells, then that will burn all their venom stacks in 1.5 seconds upon initializing.
meaning unless the stars align, you will get MAX 5 people caught, realistically.
Granted every organized and “skilled” party out there runs a guard with condi cleanse, i do not see why there should not be viable, effective counterplay through STANDARD MEANS OF COUNTERING CONDITIONS.
My conclusion, without making claims that venomwells ARE or ARE NOT OP, is that either most of you who complain are NOT running in a nearly as skilled group as you think, OR that you simply are not sticking together enough.
There are some data missing. Mainly; why do you keep getting caught, and why have you not presented evidence of trying to counter this sort of play with the tools you have avaliable
in general, it can be countered. It will take 2 purging flames and 2 shout warriors. possibly a water 5 from staff ele to ensure everyone gets out safe. its much more difficult to counter than it is to apply. frontline doesnt usually have too much trouble with it. Necros often get caught though. Necros are going to be able to use unholy sanctuary now. They also get 3s protection when they leave deathshroud. Will that be enough? doubt it.
Just to add to this on a more meta level. If one group can force another to blow its condi-cleanses early in a fight the group without condi-cleanse will be at a significant disadvantage.
Curious as to what others are hoping from the specialisation?
Personal wishlist:
- defensive abilities beyond face-tanking, whether that be some form of stealth, invun, whatever.
- mobility
- for Anet not to cripple the class any further
Without being rude, you are calling [Re] out without any mention of who you are running with? And to be frank, I have fought Re personally a good few times and while of course they are nabcakes (read: not on my server) they nonetheless deserve respect as a core WvW guild.
Feel free to post your guild tag….
Beyond that:
@forestgreen
Necros shouldn’t run zerk?
Not directed at you specifically but so many people here don’t have a clue about what venom wells are/represent. They are an incredibly toxic aspect of zvz/gvg fights. Really not intended to be rude to you specifically, if ‘you’ have fought against this in any kind of organised setting the statement of: there is no counter-play to venom wells, would make sense.
Of course the casual community are entitled to their opinion but without more than anecdotal discussion on the more core aspects of a gamemode that represents 1/3 of gw’s 2 how can it progress? More importantly, in the face of so many large/core/recognised guilds quitting, how can it not be on a continual decline?
As an aside, the original post here was to continue this discussion, not to share my own views.
Personal opinion:
Beginning to think a lot of posters in this thread don’t run with organised/semi-organised WvW groups: do people understand the amount of damage zerk necros put out + a melee/FP group hitting an immobilised target?
There’s not much “counter play” to been hit by that in under 2 seconds.
Group synergy is great and all but a, lets be honest here, stupidly simple to perform synergy such as venom&wells is totally broken in a risk-reward sense.
To each their own of course but I would urge people that don’t really understand the issue to spend some time in even a semi-organised environment (reset with teamspeak for example on your respective eb’s) and perhaps you might change your mind.
(Necros are as good as ele’s)
I can prove that by a simple thought experiment:
Thesis: Necros are good.
People say eles are bad.
Anet buffs eles.
Ele is good now.
People say necros are bad.
Anet doesn’t buff necros.
Necro must be good already.
Q.E.D.
Shoutout to the Devs and especially Jon ‘5 signets’ Peters who graced us with this wonderfully balanced game.
Remembered that from a few months back, it changed my life.
On a serious note, we are getting buff after buff:
- can interact with items while in deathshroud, this was such a big buff they had to wait 2 years after release to implement it
- warhorn cast time reduced by .5 of a second, I thought I was a thief for a few weeks
- stability changes mean we now have 1 stack of stability for 3seconds on a 10second cooldown (untraited) grandmaster trait
/sarcasm_off
Health is not a defence against focus fire. It’s a fundamental flaw in the class design. It can’t be fixed as anything that would make that balanced in teamfights would be ridiculously overpowered in a 1v1.
Lack of mobility is not a huge deal aslong as the whole group sucks at mobility. However once one or more in the party is quicker then the rest, the party is doomed to fail
People still use this? I find using food/stone every 30mins bothersome, centaur/tonic set up would kill any fun in the game for me.
i use them in a mesmer in a 5 havok group. id rather have to click that tonic every 15s and have my fellow havokers in full dps builds than have to worry about swiftness among us. that said i definitely hear your point, it is a hassle, personal preference thing
Lack of mobility is not a huge deal aslong as the whole group sucks at mobility. However once one or more in the party is quicker then the rest, the party is doomed to fail
All the same, the issue:
- stealth is an engage tool
- stealth is a disengage tool
- stealth is an offensive ability
- stealth is a defensive ability
- (thieves) stealth is available to the most mobile class in the game
- (thieves) stealth is a spamable ability
(imo) this kitten is inherently broken but it’s too far gone now for it to change. Don’t like it don’t play it but it’s not like GW2 PvP is actually a thing anyway!
you want to crowdfund something you should pay the massive amount of wvw players/guilds that have quit over stagnant content to come back.
it wont matter if anet give us 200 new maps, wvw is about the players as much as the content and i think its pretty safe to say that a lottt of wvw players have already quit….
Technically there’s still hope, but realistically, looking at recent developments (white swords debacle for WvW, gemstore gold-to-gems money grab, for example), it’s pretty clear there isn’t going to be a miracle comeback for GW2.
This.
Watching Anet improve the game is like watching someone fall out of a wheelchair.
