There used to sort of be one in the water part that got locked away.
Noone Considered Healing?
Best healing in the game bar-none
Try it in PvP. Won’t work as well.
Scrapper is better
Overloads get interrupted 75% of the time in PvP. Earth still gets interrupted 50% of the time. It seems as if one stun will break the bar causing you to be stunned anyways AND give you 25 Vulnerability? Why? Why do some Overloads take over 4 seconds to complete and others less than 3? I’m jealous of some of the Reaper/Chronomancer effects compared to the crummy animations for the Overloads or effects. There’s no offense ability in Tempest trait line, yet I’m better off taking Earth, Water, or Arcane for survivability. What’s the point of Rebound? Why do autoattacks consume the charges? Why does Overloading consume the charge and yet give no effect on cooldown? How come we can start an overload in mist form, but leaving the mist form will interrupt it. Why does swapping an attunement cancel the overload? Isn’t having the stay in it for longer AND be unable to cast / dodge enough of a risk? Why does Lighting Orb (an absolute monster of a nuke ability in GW1) deal such little damage? You could literally increase it 10 fold. Why doesn’t Harmonious Conduit also affect the time you have to be in attunement to overload? Shouldn’t Unstable Conduit apply the auras when you start casting the Overload? Lucid Singularity could give the much coveted Resistance boon and still be a maybe choice over the other two. Speedy and Hardy Conduit could easily be rolled into the same trait. Ele’s lack the conditions Slow/Poison/Torment, have no access to Quickness/Alacrity/Resistance/Aegis, and no way to achieve Light/Chaos Auras. Why hasn’t Tempest done anything to address any of this with the new weapon, mechanic, or traits? Why doesn’t Earthen Protection increase the duration of Protection as well since it’s only a 7% increase on the boon’s benefit or provide some other effect? What’s the reasoning for Imbued Melodies being a grandmaster that only affects Warhorn? Also, does it really need to give the 20% cooldown when there’s no other Elementalist trait that reduces cooldowns across an entire weapon? Why aren’t all shouts instant cast? Christ, I could just go on and on with this.
Please do something with this Elite Spec to make it worthwhile ANET.
(edited by Ryld.1340)
The main reason I dislike Cele D/D is because anytime I manage to hold a point in a 1v1 with my Staff Cleric build, I get called cheese.
Ring of Fire could use a small 1-2 second ICD.
Blinding Ashes could go up to a 7 sec ICD.
Drake’s Breath could go down to 2 seconds from 3 sec duration.
I don’t know how I feel about removing the evade on Burning Speed though.
Ice Spike (Ele Staff Water #2) is now a Blast Finisher
thief can heal and clear condi just with a trait tied into a big part of what thief do which is stealth (another main mechanic for thief)
a thief can stealth and clear more condi’s than a warrior that has to build up bars and expend them, war must land a burst move or run the must needed Longbow to deal with that problem, and most professions are not the specific with circumstances as far as clearing condi’s other than war
Shouts?
What do shouts have to do with his comparison of meta build capabilities between the given two professions?
I don’t recall complaining about meta capabilities, just the fact that there’s other options. You can get Shake It Off and Shrug It Off along with the Rune Set and that’s 4 shouts every 25 seconds. Or One Condition every 6 seconds in an AoE to 5 allies. Outside of that, there’s Berserker Stance and then Resistance from Healing Signet. You might also include Brawler’s Recovery in the mandatory Discipline line that people take for Fast Hands. On top of all that, there’s Cleansing Ire for another 3 Conditions every 15 – 20 seconds max.
Warrior is completly fine with its condition removal, even outside of using Cleansing Ire.
thief can heal and clear condi just with a trait tied into a big part of what thief do which is stealth (another main mechanic for thief)
a thief can stealth and clear more condi’s than a warrior that has to build up bars and expend them, war must land a burst move or run the must needed Longbow to deal with that problem, and most professions are not the specific with circumstances as far as clearing condi’s other than war
Shouts?
condi removal for no other class revolves around the class mechanic why does warriors?
What about Thief?
And Ele? Swapping to Water.
Attunments are like skills with cooldown and have no other requirements for activation.
Also, ele has Cantrips with good traits for them.Well, looking at specific class mechanic system, Warrior is in the worst position here.
Burst Skills are like skills with cooldowns and have very little requirements for activation.
Also, warrior has Shouts with good traits and runes for them.
Well, looking at the specific class mechanic system, Thief is in the worst position here.
condi removal for no other class revolves around the class mechanic why does warriors?
What about Thief?
And Ele? Swapping to Water.
That is why I proposed buffing ele damage before this change happened.
Please keep in mind that Elementalists do not possess stealth and have only one long CD teleport. They use sustain to make up for that.
What about gurdian or engineer. They don’t stealth. And they don’t have a passive heal this beneficial.
As for defense, the ele has cc, invouln, dodges, skill evades, reflects, and projectile destruction. They also have good protection and regeneration up time. Finally, they have plenty of condition removal and skills that grant direct healing on use or through fields and blast finishers. Other classes don’t get all of these but rather a handful. To top it off this signet already heals better than the thief signet warrior signet or mesmer signet as long as they use a spell twice per second which isn’t very hard for ele. Not talking signets, It is one of the most powerful source of direct healing in a per second sense leaving less opportunity to spike the ele before it uses a healing skill. This explains why their hp is hard to drop.
Still, if changed alone, a tanky ele will have no damage and lose its sustain. A buff to damage would better allow this change. This change will also not affect skilled players assuming they can actually hit with their skills and do not just spam them for heals.
Guardians get Aegis, innate Blocking on some Weapon Skills, and high armor
Engineers get Medium Armor, Medium Health, Extra CC, and burst healing with the ability to reset it
How are you going to count dodges as a thing Ele has? Everyone has that. You are also combining effects from different weapons sets and Ele’s cannot get all of those at once. Furthermore, it IS difficult to use a spell twice a second as Ele. I do not see how you think it isn’t. Unless you’re blowing your three Cantrip cooldowns one after another, you’re not going to get more than 5 consecutive seconds of “two spells per second”.
Please keep in mind that Elementalists do not possess stealth and have only one long CD teleport. They use sustain to make up for that.
Guardian = Ranger
Guardians get Traps
One could almost say they get Traps like a Ranger.
Oh, sorry. I misread that. I thought you said they were getting Engineer stuff.
Ground Target AoE that you can now move like Ventari’s Tablet.
There, Tornado fixed.
It all depends what class we’re supposed to be model after.
Mesmer = Necro
Guardian = Ranger
Necro = Warrior
Ranger = Elementalist (speculative)
Thief = Engineer (speculative)
Engineer = Guardian (speculative)So if we’re a Thief, then I imagine storms will be largely stealth/mobility based. If we’re a Mesmer we’ll likely get a twist on Mantras (charged storm you can use after charge to release the storm on target).
Guardians get Traps
The devs for necro/thief try to balance game while devs for mes/ele are only interested in insane power creep by the looks of it.
Maybe you can enlighten me as I seem to have missed the part where Elementalist received power-creep buffs that weren’t global changes.
There are two major power creep buffs.
1) You no longer have to use a Major for Elemental Attunement, freeing up a slot and allowing for Final Shield or Contingency as well as an overall reduced cooldown for Attunements.
2)Elementalist feels like it received more benefits out of the new three Grandmaster than some other classes. Before, it always felt that I was just two points off from a “perfect” build. And now I can have that.
- Having Elemental Contingency instead of Elemental Attunement as the minor master trait wouldn’t change anything.
- The major grandmaster trait Blinding Ashes on top of Evasive Arcana and Cleansing Water is nothing to write home about when Mesmers have the superior major master trait Blinding Dissipation.
On first point: That’s true, but it’s much better than before when he had a nerfed Arcane Precision. It doesn’t matter if Contingency or Attunement is in the Minor Slot now, it’s still a major buff compared to before.
That is a Mesmer issue. Fire is an over-all better line now as well and an actual choice. Sunspot is a lot better of a minor and the extra power bonus is much more useful than Flame Barrier. Ele’s got a lot of love last patch. I only play Ele, so I know how much of a difference it is to be able to get Diamond Skin AND Cleansing Waters while still having Evasive Arcana.
Your entire present argument has nothing to do with your entire prior argument material-wise, and I am thus done here discussing this with you. The problem in arguing with someone who doesn’t actually have an argument but continues to argue nonetheless is the fact of their “grasping at straws” if you will. Refute one point and they will move onto a completely different point with complete disregard creating a near-ceaseless vicious cycle.
The fact that you even brought up Diamond Skin indicates that we aren’t even arguing on the same level here, so just consider this your victory and let us be done with it.
Your entire response was just a Strawman Argument without showing why mine is for some reason. There is no moral high ground for you here.
Straw man because of all those words I put in your mouth, right? Me quoting you arguing Diamond Skin which has absolutely nothing to do with the meta was just something I made up, right? How about the fact that disregarded all of your previous points by bringing up completely new and unrelated ones?
Moral high ground? Straw man indeed.
You asked how Ele’s got a buff and why they are buffs. And I listed the reasons.
A major Arcane Trait was freed up. Fire was reworked and is better. Ele’s feel as if they get a bigger buff from being able to take three Grandmasters than other classes.
And yes, Diamond Skin is relevant to this conversation because of point three. With full Water, Earth, and Arcane, I can now build Bunker around anti-condition while still maintaining large amounts of healing to help counter power builds. This was previously not do-able. I’d either go max Water for counter-Power or max Earth for counter-condition.
Imo, ele looks too good with EA and too bad without the EA’s. I get that they need sustain to make up for their low hp pool and what not but it seems like you can get something that is tanky, mobile, and able to do damage (albeit not in the form of spiky power damage). Is there a way to meet in the middle here that anyone can come up with?
Something to do with Shielding might be the best, similar to Guardian, but with Arcane Shields instead of Aegis.
The devs for necro/thief try to balance game while devs for mes/ele are only interested in insane power creep by the looks of it.
Maybe you can enlighten me as I seem to have missed the part where Elementalist received power-creep buffs that weren’t global changes.
There are two major power creep buffs.
1) You no longer have to use a Major for Elemental Attunement, freeing up a slot and allowing for Final Shield or Contingency as well as an overall reduced cooldown for Attunements.
2)Elementalist feels like it received more benefits out of the new three Grandmaster than some other classes. Before, it always felt that I was just two points off from a “perfect” build. And now I can have that.
- Having Elemental Contingency instead of Elemental Attunement as the minor master trait wouldn’t change anything.
- The major grandmaster trait Blinding Ashes on top of Evasive Arcana and Cleansing Water is nothing to write home about when Mesmers have the superior major master trait Blinding Dissipation.
On first point: That’s true, but it’s much better than before when he had a nerfed Arcane Precision. It doesn’t matter if Contingency or Attunement is in the Minor Slot now, it’s still a major buff compared to before.
That is a Mesmer issue. Fire is an over-all better line now as well and an actual choice. Sunspot is a lot better of a minor and the extra power bonus is much more useful than Flame Barrier. Ele’s got a lot of love last patch. I only play Ele, so I know how much of a difference it is to be able to get Diamond Skin AND Cleansing Waters while still having Evasive Arcana.
Your entire present argument has nothing to do with your entire prior argument material-wise, and I am thus done here discussing this with you. The problem in arguing with someone who doesn’t actually have an argument but continues to argue nonetheless is the fact of their “grasping at straws” if you will. Refute one point and they will move onto a completely different point with complete disregard creating a near-ceaseless vicious cycle.
The fact that you even brought up Diamond Skin indicates that we aren’t even arguing on the same level here, so just consider this your victory and let us be done with it.
Your entire response was just a Strawman Argument without showing why mine is for some reason. There is no moral high ground for you here.
The devs for necro/thief try to balance game while devs for mes/ele are only interested in insane power creep by the looks of it.
Maybe you can enlighten me as I seem to have missed the part where Elementalist received power-creep buffs that weren’t global changes.
There are two major power creep buffs.
1) You no longer have to use a Major for Elemental Attunement, freeing up a slot and allowing for Final Shield or Contingency as well as an overall reduced cooldown for Attunements.
2)Elementalist feels like it received more benefits out of the new three Grandmaster than some other classes. Before, it always felt that I was just two points off from a “perfect” build. And now I can have that.
- Having Elemental Contingency instead of Elemental Attunement as the minor master trait wouldn’t change anything.
- The major grandmaster trait Blinding Ashes on top of Evasive Arcana and Cleansing Water is nothing to write home about when Mesmers have the superior major master trait Blinding Dissipation.
On first point: That’s true, but it’s much better than before when he had a nerfed Arcane Precision. It doesn’t matter if Contingency or Attunement is in the Minor Slot now, it’s still a major buff compared to before.
That is a Mesmer issue. Fire is an over-all better line now as well and an actual choice. Sunspot is a lot better of a minor and the extra power bonus is much more useful than Flame Barrier. Ele’s got a lot of love last patch. I only play Ele, so I know how much of a difference it is to be able to get Diamond Skin AND Cleansing Waters while still having Evasive Arcana.
The devs for necro/thief try to balance game while devs for mes/ele are only interested in insane power creep by the looks of it.
Maybe you can enlighten me as I seem to have missed the part where Elementalist received power-creep buffs that weren’t global changes.
There are two major power creep buffs.
1) You no longer have to use a Major for Elemental Attunement, freeing up a slot and allowing for Final Shield or Contingency as well as an overall reduced cooldown for Attunements.
2)Elementalist feels like it received more benefits out of the new three Grandmaster than some other classes. Before, it always felt that I was just two points off from a “perfect” build. And now I can have that.
We’re not saying that Ele doesn’t need a nerf. We’re saying that making Ele’s choose between Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement is the wrong way to go about it.
You could instead nerf Elementalist by…
Reducing the Heal on Signet Cast
Reducing Burning Damage
Increasing CD on Shocking Aura Trait
Figure out a reasonable solution to Diamond Skin
Reduce Protection Duration on E. Attunement by 1-2 seconds.
Reduce Might Duration on E. Attunement by 5 seconds
Nerf Runes of Strength. This is a big contender.
Obviously not all these things at once, but it would help with issues.
Mesmer’s Phantoms isnt’ a trait but a weapon/utility skill that make them. If they become Clones they will stil deal they’r work.
But to speak better, it’s like you steal they’re trait to make a clone when they dodge. it’s a hard punch for them, but there’s a lot of builds that don’t even play with that trait and work very well and they can still be able to kill you without that trait.And you’re Still Able to chose Evasive Arcana, but you’re forced to chose it instead of another good trait, like all the other class that have a lot of goods traits and the chance to chose only one: Mesmer’s Power block and Mental Anguish – Warrior’s Last stand and cleansing ire or Brawler’s recovery and destruction of the empowered – Ranger’s Empatic Bond or Wilderness Knowledge [They cry a lot for that forged choice, but no one listened them] – Guardian’s Pure of Voice and Wirt of Persistance and Permeating Wrath or Indomitable Courage and other situations.
Every class lose something of important, making them forced to a choice.
Ele don’t lose nothing from that new trait situation. Nothing really important.
Chose between that 2 traits will not kill the ele, will only make them competitive, not Op and needing to lear to play it better, like everyone had been forced to do.
Incorrect. These traits aren’t choices. They’re required. Ele’s need Boons on Attunement or the Class doesn’t work. Ele’s need Evasive Arcana for any build that isn’t a gimmick glass (that isn’t taken seriously) for it to work.
Mesmers get Clones, Phantasms, Teleports, and Stealth as Defenses
Thieves get Stealth and Teleport as Defenses
Elementalists get Boons and Sustain as Defenses.
If you take away Boons (Elemental Attunement) and Sustain (Evasive Arcana), Ele has nothing. Literally nothing.
So, once again. If you force Ele’s to choose between Boons or Sustain, then Mesmers should have to choose between Clones or Phantasms and Thieves should have to choose between Stealth or Teleporting.
About eles, they had planned a “nerf”: they put Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement on the same tier of Arcane magic, forcing them to chose only one of them.
BUT
Eles cry so much for that “nerf” (that only point to make eles unale to be fullbuffed all the time like before the patch and like now, making them OP) that ANet was forced to make Elemental Attunement a minor trait.If they restore that old fix idea, they will fix the eles once for all.
Can you imagine if Mesmers could only pick between the ability to summon Clones OR Phantasms? Not both. Or if Thieves had to choose between Stealth or Steal?
Both EA’s are absolutely core to the Elementalist and has been since BWE1. In fact, over time, I think they’ve actually come to become even MORE reliant on these traits for 90% of builds in PvP.
Alright alright. I’m not really seeing the craziness of it, but maybe that’s because I don’t ever run Stone Heart.
Secondary suggestion idea (similar to Cleansing Water)
Trait – Earthen Tenacity
Grant 2 (maybe 1?) seconds of Resistance when granting Protection to yourself or an ally.
“Un-crittable” + “Un-conditionable” all-in-one? Are you kidding, right?
Only in Earth. You can’t just sit in Earth all day, you won’t get anything done. You can’t kill anyone with Earth autoattacks with any weapon whatsoever.
This would also be a very nice buff to conjure builds.
Stone Heart: While attuned to earth, the Elementalist cannot be critically hit and gains Resistance every second for one second.
Diamond Skin: Removed
New Earth Grandmaster –
Stable Foundations – Whenever the Elementalist gains an Aura, gain one stack of stability to five nearby allies.
Secondary suggestion idea (similar to Cleansing Water)
Trait – Earthen Tenacity
Grant 2 (maybe 1?) seconds of Resistance when granting Protection to yourself or an ally.
(edited by Ryld.1340)
As a Staff Ele Bunker main, I honestly don’t know what to do about Diamond Skin. Sometimes I feel as if it’s absolutely necessary or I’ll be eaten alive by Conditions even with Water. On the other hand, in a 1v1 or 1v2 against Condition users, it’s stupidly powerful, to the point where I can almost ignore the Condition users.
Someone here suggested 3s of Resistance upon entering and leaving Earth, but that would just be even more broken. With current boon resist bonuses, I could get a surplus of Resistance by just cycling in and out of Earth as it comes up.
I don’t know if Resistance is the way to go on this either for its current mechanic. Yes, it can be stripped, but it also gives me a safety net between pulses to get back above the threshold. If it pulses every 3 seconds and you get me below 90% a second after it pulses, I still have two seconds of Resistance to get it back above the threshold while you still can’t do anything. And even if I get it back up after you’ve loaded me up with conditions, they suddenly stop doing ANYTHING once I reach 90%, instead of dragging me back down to help you break the health line.
I honestly don’t know what it should even do, if anything with Conditions at all. I like to try and build my bunker to “face anything”, but when I look at Diamond Skin VS Stone Heart, I really feel as if I’m just speccing to counter Power or Condition, though it really shouldn’t be either. Maybe change Stone Heart to also have Resistance pulse every 2 seconds while in Earth and make Diamond Skin something completely new? Something with projectile reflection or something?
Why are you here wasting time QQing instead of making a mesmer to learn the class and ultimately learn how to counter it?
Mesmers have so many ways to provide deception through clones, stealth, battlefield cluttering, that you just can’t see everything happening clearly.
In terms of keeping track of the mesmer, I usually don’t have a problem unless they chain MI with another stealth. Other than that, I play against them long enough to know which one is the real one. Experience helps and it seems like new players are quick to jump on the QQ bangwagon.
I don’t mind QQ but please provide backup and not “I don’t like playing against them because I’m too lazy to figure out what the class does.”
I know which one is the real mesmer.
I can’t tell what he’s DOING because of all the clutter and stealth.
Why are you here wasting time QQing instead of making a mesmer to learn the class and ultimately learn how to counter it?
Mesmers have so many ways to provide deception through clones, stealth, battlefield cluttering, that you just can’t see everything happening clearly.
You have to press it to not be stomped. What the others are saying is that during those critical moments, you can still be in the middle of being rezzed by other classes during stomp preventions.
And as a thief you have to port away from the stomp, which usually puts you in breaking distance of the res attempt in the process. I don’t see the problem really.
Depending on placement, you don’t have to interrupt the res. You can port to the other side of your ally to be out of stomp range and not interrupt the heal.
What about, not pressing it when you are getting resurrected? Such a disadvantage it has :/
You have to press it to not be stomped. What the others are saying is that during those critical moments, you can still be in the middle of being rezzed by other classes during stomp preventions.
I don’t agree with the swapping to Water part. It’s in the Earth Tree. It should be something to do with Earth or moved to the Water tree. Also, if you swap to water, you lose out on any a lot of condition removal once you leave Water and are locked out, allowing the other person to just unload all their conditions and you have a lot less to work with to get rid of them.
“on heal” isn’t really a “skill” per say, but more of an action with ICD.
For example, an ele “heal” would be, for example, ether renewal. Yet, if he uses “on heal” sigil, his water attunment, water 5, dodge roll, and (I think) Water 2 would proc the sigil.
However those thing usually have a 5 icd to avoid abusing it (Still assumption there, no idea of the facts)God I wrote so many wrong things… let’s remember not to write at 3:30 am…
Incorrect. None of those trigger “heal skills”. It only takes into account your 6th button. (I heard a rumor that Engineer’s F1 counts too? I have no confirmation of this.)
I was hoping this thread would be about a weapon that changes looks depending on the Ele’s current attunement. /sadface
Not sure if you entirely want this. If you can break the 90% barrier right now and load up any conditions, at least when the Ele heals, they’ll still have some conditions on them ticking for damage. The way you want it, as soon as the Ele reaches 90% health, it may as well remove all the conditions too.
Also, you’re giving them time to reach the 90% barrier again in the three seconds for Resistance to wear off. You’re also giving them an extra boon to play around with.
Not sure if that will be the best choice for you. Seems to just be a buff to me.
Why no new F ability for Ele’s?
I wish that they’d change the formula a bit on the Water Field Blast Finishers so that people laying down the Water field could at least help with the healing too.
Maybe instead of
1320+0.2*Healing Power
We could do
1320 .1*Healing Power of Field Layer.1*Healing Power of Blaster
Tornado with the trait “Lightning rod” (Elementalist) actually does quite alot of damage. Try it.
Shame it doesn’t make you any less squishy.
It spawns as a beam of light.
Mesmer Burst
Warrior Rampage Damage (Doesn’t need to be by too much)
Mesmer Burst
Burning Damage in general (Would help for damage on Ele and Gaurdian)
Did I mention Mesmer Burst?
Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.
To add onto this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbyE-0Cg4yI
How I wish tornado was.
Ele Tornado should be a ground target ability that summons a tornado while still letting them act. Reduce the Duration.
As a Staff Ele with the correct support/defensive build, you will gain Regeneration from Soothing Ice, Elemental Attunement, Healing Rain, Any/All Cantrips, etc.
I want Utilities that are group friendly. Aside from Blindstorm, Conjures (which no-one picks up because it takes away their weapon), and a terrible Rez Glyph, we don’t have any group skills with our utilities. I’d like to have Wells or Banners put in as Wards. Or even shouts. Or something!
I play Staff Bunker. Generally start out of combat with Air or Fire. Swap to Water when get Low. Reswap to Earth for Stability → Ether Renewal. Cycle back to Air or Fire. Repeat.
I want Stone Heart to give the Resistance Buff somehow.
Grant Resistance to yourself for 5 seconds if you gain more than 3 conditions on a 15-20s CD?
It is not that useful in WvW as Blast Finishers will not use your healing power.