Guild Wars 2

infantrydiv.1620:

Ryld.1340:

[Quote]2. Eles received some minor nerfs and now can no longer kill warriors or thieves because they were both buffed.

Please don’t say minor.

Well I can’t pretend to know much about ele, but what I do know is that Eles aren’t that bad against engis, rangers, necros but that warriors/thieves eat them for breakfast.[/quote]

Have a look at this post.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/How-would-you-balance-eles/first#post3632228

I want to say that no, we can’t. Outside of Runes, we’re lacking 3 of the 5 damaging conditions. Where people bring condition wipes to handle engy/necro, it seems like it would be too little to actually be able to keep conditions on people.

[Quote]2. Eles received some minor nerfs and now can no longer kill warriors or thieves because they were both buffed.[/quote]

Please don’t say minor.

Lucentfir.7430:

oZii.2864:

Lucentfir.7430:

I find it funny how my post gets called a mindless statement, when it’s a legitimate question. Everyone got touchy and defensive about the subject of ele’s vigor on crit. I asked the question because it was stated by a Dev. Anet wanted to change vigor across the board, because they don’t like permanent vigor in the game. Yet they say that they leave Ele’s vigor intact which contradicts their reasoning .

Let me help you out since you didn’t take the time to Read about you beloved Guardians vigor and EXACTLY what the Devs said.

Karl McLain.5604:

Profession Changes
Guardian:
_We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with low trait point investments. We’ve also made a few minor adjustments to healing skills to make them more reliable._

• Litany of Wrath: Reduced the cast time from 1 second to 3/4 second.
  • Vigorous Precision: Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.**
• Healing Breeze: This ability has been re-scaled so that the guardian receives 50% of the heal near the start of the heal and then heals for 10% for 5 ticks to the caster and up to 5 allies in the cone.

Mesmer:
_We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with low trait point investments. Based on your feedback, we decided to revert our proposed change to Deceptive Evasion._

• Critical Infusion: Increased the recharge from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
• Illusion of Drowning: Changed skill from a multi-hit to a single-hit, increasing damage to compensate.

_We’re continuing to lower the amount of vigor available to all professions, especially from sources with LOW TRAIT INVESTMENTS

Now does this echo the reasons given in this thread by multiple people on why Renewing stamina is not getting nerfed (Again).

Renewing stamina was nerfed already along time ago. Bountiful thief was nerfed Already. This round it is 5 point trait investment vigor i.e. Guardian and Mesmer.

Are we still going to play victim?

Alright you got me there somewhat, but it’s still stated in the bold, it’s not only 5 point low investment traits, it’s means overall access to vigor. And no one is playing victim lol. Everyone in this thread got as touchy as a warrior player about HS. Again let me make myself clear before someone else decides to think i want Ele nerfed, or their vigor trait nerfed, this was a simple question and about vigor access and comparing it to something that is supposedly getting nerfed. As previous your post states I kind of agree I might of kittened up here and should of made this topic a discussion about Vigor and endurance access in general/Dodging to much. Sorry everyone if this post came off the wrong way.

@Ozii- Also I Play my ele from time to time and explored him a bit and playing The Traditional D/D bunker, to a condi spec, 30 in Arcana, is normally Evasive Arcana, Elemental Attunement, and Renewing Stamina, the only one that really contests for me is Windbourne Daggers if i want 25% movement speed.. Also not lying i do have a Ele

So why exactly are you complaining? You know for a fact then that Ele needs the vigor trait more then Mesmer/Guardian.

piffdaddy.8014:

They need mobility. Revert ride the lightning nerf and ele will once again be a force to be reckoned with!!

I seriously can’t believe people who think this alone will fix Ele.

I mean, really?

I see a lot of people thinking ele should be a s/X roamer, but I really want them to help make Staff a stronger option to replace guardian as a mid bunker with.

Probably because we need it more then you.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Just FYI – We’ll be rolling out another round of Collaborative Development soon. I’ll be working with the balance designers to help get some well-rounded feedback from you all. Start thinking about what 3 things you would change, and keep an eye out for the CDI thread!

1) Attunement Cooldowns removed. All attunement swap effects gain a 10s ICD.

2) Arcane Tree now reduces recharge time of all skills globally instead of Attunement only.

3) Elemental Attunement becomes baseline. The trait to replace it makes the effects AoE. A worthy master trait.

9/10. I like how your armor goes well with your fur and matches.

Chaosky.5276:

Ryld.1340:

Attunement Swap Cooldown removed. All swap effects are given a 8 second cooldown.

You want us to be able to “adapt to any situation”? Then let us use our skills when we need them.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Attunement-Cooldowns/first

I kind of expected more discussion on it back then, but the forums can be fickle.

Yeah, I was first replier to that.

Wyrden.4713:

Ryld.1340:

Attunement Swap Cooldown removed. All swap effects are given a 8 second cooldown.

You want us to be able to “adapt to any situation”? Then let us use our skills when we need them.

that would make the arcan traitline useless, i mean the basic points thingy( dam cant explain)

but, u know when u swap to an attunement every attunement gets a 2 second cd, remove that so we can swap faster, for example, auras r instant cast- if u only want the aura from one attunement u just swap to it , use aura, swap righ after to another attunement without waiting 2 seconds

this would be awesome

So change it to something else. May I suggest “Skill Recharge %”? That’s everyone’s second biggest annoyance with the class.

Conditions are at a huge advantage because of a few things.

Cleanses usually have much longer CD’s then the application effects.
Condition damage requires fewer stats then power.
Conditions are easier to apply.
There aren’t any “big” condition attacks that you can dodge to negate most of the damage, it’s all over little effects.
Condition users can usually just apply their effects then kite.
Power is affected by Weakness, Conditions are not.
Power is affected by Protection, Conditions are not.
Power is affected by Toughness, Conditions are not.
Most big power attacks are melee while Conditions are ranged.
Conditions continue to deal damage if you are stealthed, out of sight, or out of range, but Power will not.
Conditions gain much more effectiveness from each point of Condition Duration vs Power with either Precision or Crit Damage
Conditions have access to way more control effects then power does.

There’s probably more I can’t think of.

Attunement Swap Cooldown removed. All swap effects are given a 8 second cooldown.

You want us to be able to “adapt to any situation”? Then let us use our skills when we need them.

SonOfKrypton.4357:

Good to see that there are people who agree with me!

I’ve just made a cleric staff ele with lots of blast finishers to keep the team at high HP, hopefully that’ll be worth something.

Suggested route:

Traits:
20 Earth for Rock Solid and Earth’s Embrace
20 Water for Cleansing Wave and Cantrip Mastery or Shards of Ice
30 Arcane for Blasting Staff, Elemental Attunement, and Evasive Arcane

Heal Skill:
Either Ether Renewal or the blast finisher healing skill (isn’t that great)

Utilities:
Arcane Wave, Conjure Lava Axe (then press 2), and possibly Armor of Earth or Lightning Flash

Elite: Glyph of Elementals

Amulet/Sigil:
Cleric and Energy

Combo:
Start in Fire/Air: Attune Water +Roll -> Healing Rain -> Roll + Earth Attunement -> Eruption -> Arcane Wave -> Conjure Flame -> Heal -> Explosive Lava Axe

Blast Finisher Count: 5

Healing Power: 998

Total Healing: 7598 (from Blasts) + 2300 (Healing Ripple) + 1150 (Water Roll) = 11048 with 2-3 Conditions Removed

Have fun.

Edit: Forgot about some healing power. You actually heal for more. All this had a CD of ~40 seconds I think.

Yes. But not in SPvP.

Serdoc.7261:

Ryld.1340:

Monk
798 Healing
569 Vitality
569 Toughness

Please. For my staff ele.

NO.

This is just as bad as Dire, possibly even worse.
We don’t need more tanky meta, we don’t more condition meta.

There’s a difference between tanky and no damage and tanky/condition.

It’s so close, yet so far. What else does it need changed in order to achieve this goal?

Ideas:
Conjure Earth Shield as instant cast and stun break.
Windborne Speed as a short range teleport to help insta-dying vs immobilize.
A knockback of some sort?
Maybe a channel block?

Thoughts, please!

Pyriall.5027:

azuzephyr.7280:

Mid bunker, attributes: be a Guardian

Roamer, attributes; be a Thief

Condition pressure, attributes; be a Necro

Decap, attributes; be an Engi

Warrior, attributes; be a Warrior

Though I appreciate the feedback, I’m looking for a bit more depth here. I want to rate professions based on roles. I understand what you are saying, but it isn’t going to allow for a proper analysis. Thank you.

Something along the lines of:

Mid Point Bunker:

Ability to stay on point vs multiple opponents:
Group/self stability
Aoe cleanse/self cleanse
Damage mitigation-block/invulnerability, high health pool, or protection

Mobility:
Low priority

Something like that would help.

Staff Ele was so close to filling this role. So, so close.

“If every class was like Staff Elementalist”

Jornophelanthas.1475:

The announced changes to elementalist are just a sample of what is to come. They are not all changes to the elementalist profession in the upcoming March balance patch. There will be more.

Not all changes to elementalist were announced, because:
(1) It was announced during a webcast with limited time and much more to discuss.
(2) Many proposed balance changes were not approved yet, so could not be presented.
(3) The blurb about “increasing sustain” is the stated goal that the full set of updates for the elementalist is set to accomplish.

For those who believe even the above is too long already: The listed improvements will not be the only changes to the elementalist.

If Dec 10th was any measure, then this will be the full set of buffs along with a few damage nerfs to avoid power creep. Seriously. Power creep in this class. That was so dumb.

Monk
798 Healing
569 Vitality
569 Toughness

Please. For my staff ele.

It’s great ! But I hate being loaded up with a plethora of conditions, cleansing them with all my clears, being effortlessly loaded up with conditions again, then seeing my health drop quickly with no way to save myself.

I absolutely hate dying to conditions and I’m a Staff Ele with Diamond Skin.

Marcos.3690:

“When [Living World Season One] ends [on 4th March], we’re going to take a break for a little bit and then we’re going to do one really big feature patch that is more akin to what people see from some of our [MMO] competitors,” said Johanson, "where they bundle a lot of features together into a really big patch every now and then.

So according to this rumour, anet is delaying the release of any kind of important content to counter the release of TESO and Wildstar (aka the end of living story). If im not mistaken Grouch already confirmed that the balance is not coming until this feature patch.

So there won’t be profession balance, new amulets, new rewards nor changes to runes & sigils until this spring. Don’t expect any other worthy changes to PvP until then.

We’ll have to wait for the living story to end and then wait some more time because devs are going to take a break. I don’t think I can bear with another 2-3 months of total imbalance to be honest. This game’s meta has been broken since june “balance” patch.

Just came here to ask…a break from what exactly ? I thought they had two seperate teams for living story and PvP. Or did this change?

Ele buff? Never. You must be reading it wrong.

-Normalized Signet of Restoration. It now heals in PvE as much as it heals in PvP.

Screw that. Let me bunker mid as staff. It’s getting there, but not quite.

Shinenryu.6351:

If I agree with most of your propositions, i’m quite disturbed with some spells in dagger.

In fire, I don’t understand why “Ring of Fire” would deal Poison ? Also, Grab of Fire would be too easy to land if it was an AoE around us; but make the cone larger than it is, and remove those bugs when we’re moving while casting would be enough (Btw, we’ve got the same problem with Lightning Surge). I also enjoy Burning Speed as it is actually. I’m not sure if it would be a great idea, like Arcane Wave which was better without ground targeting.

In air, I think Updraft is actually good, but reduce its cd would be great (something like 30" , at least ..?)

I approve your idea with Earthquake, but I wouldn’t see what you said with Churning Earth. Targeting AoE would be too strong and wouldn’t be in line with daggers. I remember Anet first wrote in this skill description to press the button to cast Churning Earth, and release it to deal damage; but in fact it has never exist, and it’s quite disappointing.

Anyway, nice ideas you’ve got here ^^

Ring of Fire would become a two part skill that turns into “Toxic Fumes” or something like that. It would turn your Ring of Fire into a Poison AoE. It’s to give D/D access to the poison condition and a poison field.

I feel as if Burning Speed becoming targeted wouldn’t really be the same as Arcane Wave. You knew where Wave would hit because it was directly around you and you wanted it instant because it was in the middle of a combo. I don’t feel as if Burning Speed is the same there.

Also, Firegrab isn’t that great of a skill when you look at it. It’s currently sometimes hard to hit with as well as having an insane cooldown for what it does. I feel as if the AoE portion would be a large quality of life factor.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what profession are you playing?

some professions are weak against conditions while some have very good condition management.

for example, warriors have lots of methods to deal with conditions.

Elementalist. I know I have Diamond Skin and a few condition cleanses, but the sheer amount of conditions is driving me nuts.

Can we please tone down conditions? Or their damage? Or their duration? Or just something here. This is getting extremely frustrating to play in lobbys where literally 90% of the people there use Conditions as their main form of damage.

No. Boons are Regeneration, Fury, Might, Vigor, Retaliation, and Protection.

Each stack counts as 1%. 25 Stacks of Might = Extra 1% (not counting what Might itself gives).

It used to be 2-3%, but apparently that was too good for Ele and got nerfed down to 1, while other classes still have 2%.

I can’t really agree to most of what you did to Elementalist as a Staff user. More work is needed there. Arcane Brilliance will still not be used because it’s not Ether Renewal. Same with SoR. The Diamond skin change actually makes it worse then before. Lightning Flash CD doesn’t make sense. Just give it Stun breaking and call it done.

I feel as if “Air is single target” isn’t a good train of thought. Especially for Staff. If you mouse over Air Attunement, it says “Gain Heavy Damage and Control”. Single target damage also isn’t really Staff’s thing.

Some thoughts about your notes:

Burning Retreat: It’s not meant to give it offense, just extra control over the ability. Rolling to the side for example.

Water Blast: For Staff being a ranged weapon, giving it a heal that you have to be in very close melee for it work is annoying.

Windborne Speed: By itself, this skill is pretty meh. The cleansing of Chill, Cripple, and Immob is great, but you already have Swiftness with GoEH and EA. In battle, this doesn’t seem to do much on its own.

Eruption: This change was almost specifically for PvP. It’s annoying to get this to hit anyone.

Magnetic Aura: Staff users don’t grab Earth V as Magnetic Shield is their only aura outside of Frost Aura from blasting Frozen Ground which is better for Water Fields.

Unsteady Ground: This change was to help the user when the target is in melee range. If they are, this skill isn’t so great.

Shock Wave: At distances, I run into the same problem Gust has here.

Rezz.8019:

Overpowered: heal sig, hambow wars, bunker guardian
Very strong: meta thief, grenade engi, decap engi
Strong: spirit ranger, mm necro, condition necro

Everything else: not good enough for serious play

There are some good ele and mesmer builds that would be very strong if meta was changed. They are not viable right now but if warriors get nerfed they might be. Have to be aware of that.

Most Ele builds are destroyed by Mesmers, Necros, Thieves, and Warriors.

Warrior isn’t the only thing holding them down.

DAGGER

Goals: Add condition damage, giving Ele a solid choice for condition routes.

Fire
*Dragon’s Claw: Pierces Enemies
*Drake’s Breath: Grants Vigor to caster and allies hit by it.
*Burning Speed: Ground Targeted
*Ring of Fire: Double Tap to change into Poison Field, dealing poison instead of burning.
*Fire Grab: AoE around user instead of cone.

Water
*Vapor Blade: Passes/returns through the environment. Deals a little extra damage to chilled targets.
*Cone of Cold: Causes chill for a short duration.
*Frozen Burst: AoE increased
*Frost Aura: CD reduced slightly
*Cleansing Wave: PvP ratios reverted

Air
*Lighting Whip: A solid ability. No changes
*Lighting Touch: Causes 2 stacks of Torment for 5 seconds.
*Shocking Aura: Another good ability, no changes.
*RtL: Obvious. Remove CD penalty if miss.
*Updraft: Two ideas. Make Knockback a cone or Give Evade window but remove roll animation.

Earth
*Impale: 2 Stacks of Bleed for 5 seconds instead of 1 for 8. Cleaned up animation for a few races.
*Ring of Earth: 2 Bleeding Stacks instead of 1. AoE increased to 320.
*Magnetic Grasp: Not too sure here. Perhaps faster projectile.
*Earthquake: Make ground targeted where you’ll land at.
*Churning Earth: Two ideas. Distance AoE like Meteor Shower, or ability to cancel early for less damage/bleeding.

I was just thinking about different ways for each weapon skill that would be a nice change/addition to help Elementalist feel better. Obviously not everything is supposed to be included, but a few things out of this would be nice.

STAFF

Goals: Give the Staff user more ease in hitting targets in PvP

Fire
*Fireball: Faster Travel Time
*Lava Font: Ticks on placement. Has one less tick.
*Flame Burst: Extra damage to already burning foes. Maybe spreads burning like Necro’s Epidemic?
*Burning Retreat: Now is a directional ability similar to great sword whirl. Pick direction + Roll
*Meteor Shower: Can now move while channeling OR can now move the meteor shower while channeling.

Water
*Water Blast: Now heals caster as well
*Ice Spike: Now also causes immobilize for 1 second if target is chilled.
*Geyser: Either a small knock-up, removes conditions, or can follow a target it’s cast on.
*Frozen Ground: Can’t think of anything. This skill is already fantastic.
*Healing Rain: Given a direct healing component.

Air
*Chain Lighnting: Damage from bounces changed from 33%/33%/33% to 50%/25%/25%. Or travels faster/near instant/arrow speed (lol lightning moving slower then arrows)
*Lightning Surge: Made instant or reworked into pulsing ground target light field.
*Gust: Made a cone, or a channel line like Lux’s laser from LoL, or a PBAoE
*Windborne Speed: Now grants super-speed for 2 seconds
*Static Field: No changes. Another superb skill.

Earth
*Stoning: Projectile made faster or reduce cast time
*Eruption: Can now press twice for instant eruption but doubles/triples CD.
*Magnetic Aura: Grants stability or protection as well.
*Unsteady Ground: Now knocks down targets directly on top of it like Line of Warding
*Shock Wave: See Gust, but an immobilize with damage instead of knockdown.

Also, I don’t know why I didn’t think of this before, but all finishers should prioritize your own fields.

Should prioritize your own fields first.

That is all.

What if, instead, it gave Stability, Protection, and immunity to condition damage above 80% health? You could still be chilled, poisoned, vulnerability, crippled, and immobilized. More useful against power builds. Lets necro kite a bit.

Doesn’t have to be on a specific server. Just region matters.

“How’s it feel to play such cheese?”

-As I’m playing a Staff Bunker Ele.

I really like the Staff Ele changes. Gust as it is, is useless. And the 2 + 4 combo would be neat.

They’re not the same play style. I like Ele’s play style better.

I do have to ask why, besides the base health, all you did to ele was nerf it. These were not changes that seemed to fit what the class actually needs.

I dont do teamq because no team will take my ele. And signing up with randoms feels like suicide.

Wintel.4873:

Because engineers have to give up slot skills in order to have those kits, while Ele’s have both the swapping ability and whatever slot skills they want. So it’s basically toolbelt vs slot skills…In theory.

In practice, all it’s resulted in is the Ele being 10x more awkward and flow-breaking to play compared to Engi. Just to further rub it in, absolutely no defense or CC comparable to what Engi’s have.

They don’t really lose utility skills because they still have toolbelt skills. And some of those toolbelt skills are pretty good.

mini.6018:

BlackBeard.2873:

I do agree with this immensely. RtL was OP before because it went 1550 range (essentially putting you instantly OOC) AND had 15, then 20s cooldown. Nerfing the range AND cooldown was just silly. Heck, even make it 1100 or 1000 range on 20s cooldown and you would see more eles.

Rtl is too op to have 1000 range at 20 sec cooldown.Why ? Because it is not affected by condition/movement skills and cannot be interrupted.Take warrior rush for example.It has 20 second cd and 1200 range ,BUT * it is subject to movement speed and impairing effects* and can be interrupted,immobilized.

What does that mean ?It means that as soon as it enters combat range of rush is shorter,animation is slower/takes more time to reach it’s destination.More so if it’s chilled ,crippled movement is reduced by up to 90% and the animaton is still as long making it a self stun instead of an escape ability.

If you suggest rtl to have a 20 sec cd IT MUST be brough down to these parameters for balance.Being basicly an immunity/teleport more than a movement skill is the reason of the cd nerf in the 1st place.Do not get fooled by the animation making it look something else.

Ps: wars are in the same position or worse now since ther only viable teampvp build was nerfed too hard so basicly all Op’s arguments can easily apply to warrior in the current meta,except ele is better viable burst than zerk war and war is still worse at going bunker even with healing signet.

Please note here that Warriors can spec into removing all movement impairing effects with mobility skills.

Also, RtL is affected by immobilize and, unlike spin, is not an evade. If you immobilize an Ele right before he RtL’s, you have a few seconds of just free damage while they’re locked out of all their skills.

Also, why shouldn’t Ele’s have better mobility then a warrior? Why should the Mesmer, Thief, and Warrior all have better escape options then an Ele when they all have more health, or armor, or both.

And lastly, I think Warriors can still move faster then previous-RtL by using Sword/* + GS.

oZii.2864:

Well you wouldn’t really have anything up once you cycled once or twice. In a sense they could just remove it and icd the swap traits like you said. If it was like that I don’t see it being op. I just think the global icd should be removed and I would be happy.

Not sure what you replace with investment into the arcana line. Celestial was suggested before but +30 to all stats is meh. After I thought about that suggestion. +60 with 2 critical dmg would be really strong easily reaching 120 critical damage if you wanted with gear. 3k lightning whips would be fun though.

Aura duration. .5% duration per point. Elemental Attunement now baseline. Replaced with trait giving 1 second Fire,Shock,Frost,Magnetic shield on a shared 10s cooldown on attunement swap.

Done.

hyman.7526:

Actually, it was strong against my pure PU mesmer (staff and scetper/torch). There’s no way to break a d/d eles hp with that. A simple fix was just to respec to hybrid variant of condi PU. But, I dont like how I am forced to play hybrid now or stand no chance to diamond skin.

I also doubt an Ele can kill a PU mesmer, and there’s not even a build that they can switch to to beat it.

Dirame.8521:

UltraHiDef.4809:

If you can’t deal 1.4k damage to the squishiest class then frankly , you deserve to lose.

The fact is, 1.4k damage is not the general number for every Ele meaning another could take 3k damage or more to bring them down below that threshold.

When I call for smart play, I don’t just call for nerfing it so that Necros can kill them, I’m calling for smart play on the Ele side because, with either of the suggestions I gave above, it becomes a case of bouncing between Earth and Water. The trait would encourage switching and bouncing between attunements, choosing the right time to deal damage or choosing the right time to go invulnerable to conditions.

Frankly this trait right now is just, “I’ll stay in water to bunker this point against this condi Necro or condi Engie and stay at 100% because I can.” No smart play, no counter play.

“3k damage”

No ele has 30k health. Sorry.

Also, ele’s who spec into 30 Earth will not put 30 in Water, giving them a lot less health. Most bunkerish that even decide to do Diamond Skin go 30 Arcane, 30 Earth, and 10 Water because of Evasive Arcana.

Phoenixfudge.5290:

Hi. I am elementalist. I am elementalist since beta. This trait very good. I kill many necro and thief and engi now thanks to trait. I take no damage from them. They is very easy to kill. If I take damage from them I heal because of boon called regeneration and water skill. Engi can no shoot me and flames no more. It very good. Almost too good.

Spvp elementalist very stronk. I take on many necro and engi and no die. I once scared of engi and necro. Now I not.

This trait make me very powerful. Thank you anet for make me undieable to necro and engi. Much thanks.

You play Thief and Ranger. Please leave.

Honestly? Because of fun. I love the play style of it.