Guild Wars 2

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Nice post Folly. I agree with your points overall, though I’m going to speak primarily to your points about communication, community involvement and transparency.

The trick with our communication, is to find a good balance, on multiple levels.

First, we have to be conscious of the balance between how much time we have to be posting on the forums and writing blog posts, with how much time we have to be working on actual development: bug fixes, profession balance, designing new features, implementing new content, etc.

Next it’s important for us to be conscious of the balance between saying too little, leaving people pessimistic about when things are coming out and guessing about how those things will work, and saying too much, harming our ability to later change, postpone or abandon something that we’ve already publicly committed to.

Finally we need to consider the balance between relying on community feedback too heavily, where it’s super time consuming for us to process and leaves us feeling unable to make a change without first asking for a community vote, and relying on community feedback too little, where we might miss some key information that could impact the success of our future releases.

Hopefully we are getting this balance pretty close most of the time, and if not, it’s always something we are working towards improving.

Anyway, keep up the good, constructive posts!

I am not to sure if you answered what this post was about.

is there any way we can help you with a outreach program to get more ppl?

what is anet’s plan to get more ppl?

can we get a free 2-4 week trial were they can only be in the mist?

how are u coming up with balance? anet should let more players into the PTR so we can “TEST”. is that a possibility?

you dont want to say little and leave us pessimistic, but we have no idea whats coming with next balance patch but most us believe its going to be very bad. im ver optimistic and i have been pro gw2 sense day one but with how you guys have destroyed classes it worries me what your PTR process is.

If you guys talk about possibilities with us how does that ruin your chance to change it? we would rather know your thought process then be left in the dark until the update then the game is ruined for 2 months while we wait for the next patch to fix the previous one ruining the future ones? it doesnt make sense.

fix the bugs please.

@ mrbig. sounds all really good. i just wish ANET would brain storm with us ask the community what they want to see and tell us what anet wants to do.

@ frellin i am close to leaving also just because there is no ppl. im willing to stay through all the bs while we wait for new content. but if there is no ppl there is no point. i hope they do like a 2-4 week free mist trial.

@penguin. its how alot of us fell and noone i know wants to say it might be the end because we dont want anet to get discouraged but they can let us know how to help.

Mrbig.8019:

There’s too much sense in this thread. TOO MUCH.

OMG IGNORE IGNORE.

Jokes aside, Follidus is completely right.

There’s no point in promoting an unfinished product.

The real risk is that if you don’t promote, players won’t come, and in MMO market it’s really important to have a consilidated playerbase EVEN BEFORE you start promoting.

As things are right now, this consolidated playerbase is not there, and the environmnent is very, VERY frustrating for new players.

There’s not even an incentive for playing PvP over the PvE/WvW side of the game.

Imo, along with the structure to sustain PvP, they need to make the PvP side of this game more rewarding for the casual/PvE player, and both things need to be developed altoghether.

There’s a chance that a bunch of PvE players trying PvP because the rewards are good, will like it.
There’s a chance that among those players, there will be a smaller bunch of skilled ones forming a team that is going to challenge PZ, or Chieftain Ninjas, or Team Curse, or Cute for the leadership.

Without the playerbase playing it, there’s no point in having even the greatest PvP structure of the world.

in SWTOR u get xp for pvp. u think that would help? maybe do dailies and weeklies that give gems and gold?

ty for the update.

( there is 4 stickies that dont need to be stickied anymore IMO its starting to look crowded. i think there was a post about that before i dont know. but i think you can take 4 of them down)

well hopefully adding the capture the orb thing helps out. i understand why ppl say it seems like they are just making excuses. but they seemed really sure that this was the best game mode for the game.

great reply folly. everything u said was dead on.

its frustrating for me cause all my friends that left are telling me we have a team for gears of war 4 and sponcers and we are signed up for game battles. im a die hard guild wars fan boy but they need to fix there kitten.

they need to give us free transfers to EU whenever we want and let EU transfer to NA whenever they want. and they need to let us in on whats happening like u said those private meetings being held by ppl that dont play the game is really frustrating. (when i say dont play the game i mean are not on enough to know whats really going on)

idk we will see what happens. but i know if they have game breaking bugs or nerf me to uselessness again and try and leave the game like that for 1-2 months again then i gotta cut the tie. they wont care 1 out of 3 million dont matter but it should.

first one in i win

lol godess helped u beat him we can see by the target calling 3 times means everytime nero went invis godess was good enough to re target him. nice try though let me know when u actually beat nero.

Defektive.7283:

Pyrial.2917:

Defektive.7283:

Pyrial.2917:

Defektive.7283:

If a game loses momentum early on it becomes increasingly difficult for them to get their playerbase back.

GW2 sPvP lost its momentum roughly 3-4 months ago. A lot of people have quit or barely play. I myself have moved on to greener pastures and log an equivalent 10 minutes of GW2 time a day, maybe less.

ArenaNet should take notes from Nadeo and their ShootMania series for how they developed the game with competitiveness in mind and decided to not release the game until every piece of the puzzle had been completed.

TLDR:
Low population (lets just say 2,500 and be generous, across all countries).
Little amount of playable modes.
No legitimate ranking system besides time invested.
Lack of variety in class mechanics.

= game on its last legs. I just want people to admit it so we can get past the rose tinted glasses.

I think alot would agree; however the pvp is still some of the best out there. The shame of it all will be that this game will never realize its potential.

Personally, I consider the PvP to the bottom rank among the top tier.

GW2 is to Captain Falcon of SSBM.

Please, let us know what the top tier games are then.

What genre specifically?

Not to go against the ‘community’ grain here but I find WoW pvp to be a lot more robust and interesting to watch.

I wouldn’t even put it past Path of Exile or D3 in having more indepth and interesting gameplay mechanics just from the sheer size of available builds and concepts thrown around. Not to mention LoL, Dota2, Blood Line Champions, probably even Smite (which seems to already have a larger PvP following).

When compared to other less specific ‘player vs. player’ games, the mechanics of this to even some things like ShootMania, Gunz Online (of all things), TF2 etc. out shine this game on the sheer availability of mechanics, gamestyle and interesting concepts.

What we have here is a standard MMO PvP where targeting isn’t needed. A ‘dodge’ button that really just moves your character X feet and makes you immune to incomming attacks, coupled with 3 point King of the Hill mechanics.

You bundle all of that into lack of build variety, standards across different continents (NA vs EU), a hand full of maps and a lack of any real skill indicator…

Well, you get the point. GW2 is a good show and tell of once interesting mechanics executed in a flawed manner and never followed up on.

Now this is all my opinion, and that’s fine. But ArenaNet shot itself in the foot a long time ago so it’s hard to rally behind them once again just to anticipate let down.

if you ever get to see top tier games full great teams vs full great teams this game is really interesting. problem is you dont get to see those games to often.

Defektive.7283:

Pyrial.2917:

Defektive.7283:

If a game loses momentum early on it becomes increasingly difficult for them to get their playerbase back.

GW2 sPvP lost its momentum roughly 3-4 months ago. A lot of people have quit or barely play. I myself have moved on to greener pastures and log an equivalent 10 minutes of GW2 time a day, maybe less.

ArenaNet should take notes from Nadeo and their ShootMania series for how they developed the game with competitiveness in mind and decided to not release the game until every piece of the puzzle had been completed.

TLDR:
Low population (lets just say 2,500 and be generous, across all countries).
Little amount of playable modes.
No legitimate ranking system besides time invested.
Lack of variety in class mechanics.

= game on its last legs. I just want people to admit it so we can get past the rose tinted glasses.

I think alot would agree; however the pvp is still some of the best out there. The shame of it all will be that this game will never realize its potential.

Personally, I consider the PvP to the bottom rank among the top tier.

GW2 is to Captain Falcon of SSBM.

i think the pvp is crazy fun in this game we just need more ppl.

madatom.5218:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

Is Anet going to do an outreach program?

to who?

nobody wants to play this kind of pvp, if anet was going to do an outreach program there needs to be someone to outreach

there’s a dam good reason why tournament ques never pop and there are only 10 active ten servers up out of a list of hundreds, domination is arguably the worst game mode for mmo pvp because it emphasizes role based gameplay, something arenanet said would not happen, they use this as a tool to disregard responsibility towards real balance issues so everyone stays the way they want them too, even if that isn’t balanced

they had a perfectly good reason in SOTG of why this is the only game mode. a death match in this game wouldnt be good because teams would wait until full elites.

what other game type would you want.? i agree with keeping this game mode then adding new objectives in it. like they are adding the orb into it that basically makes a new game mode.

Eurantien.4632:

I wonder if the new map mechanic could be used to get WvW people involved. After all, orb running is one of the funnest parts in WvW. Thing is we’d have to do the outreaching.

i hope it does bring WVW ppl in.

Braxxus.2904:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

trolling is part of it so do it.

Only for those who haven’t grown up yet and still feel the need to act kitteny towards others in order to make themselves feel superior/better in some fashion.

we must have diff definitions of trolling

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Nerfing everything would actually just make everything equally as weak. In this case, then there would not be anything “OP” and possibly fights would take longer overall. Maybe a across the board damage and heals nerf will make this game not seem like every fight is 30 seconds.

so you want them to just nerf everything until everything is weak? i think that idea is making the game to easy and less skill based. for example all the good skilled players were able to see moa incoming and dodge it, now they made moa so useless that ppl dont bother looking for it. taking skill out the game is not brinnging us closer to Esport.

Vanthian.9267:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

sorry i didnt see if you want 1 class allowed per paid team so warrior will be more viable or not that is what this post is about.

you should reply either yes 1 class per paid team allowed will make warriors more viable or no i think they should keep nerfing everything to kitten until warrior ends up being the op class.

I believe they need to fix the balance between the professions before they start making any changes to the maps/team compositions. It is not that I don’t agree with your statement, I just feel that if the classes were actually on par and all viable in each given field, to a extent, this would not even be a problem.

yeah i said it many times i wish it would be more balanced i think with all the nerfs they did it really underpowered ppl so much others became to strong. then you run multiple of those to strong classes its GG. my suggestion would just be a filler. remember this game is brand new so they can do stuff like this. but the way its going in terms of balance is not ok.

dont worry after they nerf everything else mesmer will be useful again. after the 26th engi will be op so maybe april or may mesmer will be good.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Rather then do this (which they wont anyway) they SHOULD be FIXING the classes traits, skills and everything and make the game BALANCED rather then doing this. The MASSIVE lack in usable/competitive builds per a class is a HUGE problem as well

byt they wont do that either anytime soon. i wish they would do a awesome balance but i dont see that happening anytime soon.

but until they do i want 1 class implemented

Schwahrheit.4203:

For once I definitely agree with you Braxx. The OP is blinded by his “ideal world of competitive play” which isn’t even close to ideal. It sucks. He has over-looked simple facts such as a team that doesn’t have a Mesmer will definitely lose to a team that has a Mesmer. Sataar has over-looked the imbalance of a class in comparison to other classes.

Maybe play a non-cheese class sataar, and you’ll understand why people disagree with your suggestion. Because the true solution is to balance out classes in comparison to another. Your solution though sataar? I would say a bunch of monkeys could’ve done a better job. And I’m not sorry at all for saying this but go take a breather.

No one likes preachers, and everyone should be able to play something they feel like playing.

please go read again why i posted mesmer is not viable. or in fact please go make a mesmer and tell me its cheese. all a mesmer is in a team is a extra 4 min buff and a quick way to fights.

or havnt you noticed there is 2-3 mesmers left once ppl found out the truth behind them. i know its hard for baddies to understand the concept behind battles and you guys just say nerf all the time but you guys have ruined the game for many ppl. the perfect balance you guys are hoping magically happens is a joke. the best thing is a 1 class limit. and if you think that will make mesmer a must have class then im afraid you have no idea how to play this game.

and the only reason ppl disagree with my suggestion from readin on here is because they just want to see rangers and eles get the nerf. and maybe a few ppl that like the always running multiple of the in season class and build. anyone who actually uses there brain sees it will make every class viable and then promote finding new builds for each class. seems positive to me.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I can’t really make my mind up. Limiting to one class would deal with some of the issues, but the I think some classes are better in pairs. Maybe a limit of 2… But then we still have the PZ 2 ele 2 ranger, so would defeat the purpose. idk I guess 1 would be interesting though.

I think my stance has flopped and I support Sataar here
Yes.

worst case scenario is it doesnt work and they put it back to normal after 2-4 weeks.

but IMO nothing wioll be as bad as how they been nerfing making stuff useless and overal making other things way more useful.

Rump Buffalo.2594:

Darnis.4056:

Any time you want to bring 2 or even 3 of the same class to a 5v5 really says a lot about the power of said class.

I think this is a really cool idea.. it might not be the best way to fix class balance, but it might help it along..

Yes it says a lot about the power of the class…

How does that mean we should limit 1 of any class to a team. That completely bars certain people from playing. You have essentially said hey person who plays a duo class with someone else in the team learn something else and dont play what you want because we still need to balance the game.

This is a horrible idea with no logical basis that limits players of all levels from creating a variety of team comps and/or playing what they want. All team would become basically the same thing because you would take the 5 strongest builds in the 5 strongest classes every time. Not to mention that you are going against the mission statement of the game if you would enforce this.

Ignoring the fact that this would not fix anything and you would instead be forced to bring weak classes to matches that bring your team down the idea that one should sweep problems under the rug and implement a change like this instead of actually balancing op/up things is ludicrous

Do you want EVERY match to be
Guardian
Mesmer
Ele
Ranger
Necro

Vrs

Guardian
Mesmer
Ele
Ranger
Necro

if you have been playing the game you would see that ppl cant play what they want because teams are running multiple super classes.

and there is 3 more classes you are leaving out. engi thief and warrior. so the meta can still be very different seeing as how every class can be run different. you seem to me to be the illogical one disagree with this because of your second to last paragragh. this will actuall have ppl make new builds and in fact make the game a lot more interesting.

how it is now is ppl jump on the op banwagon. this will give ppl chane to think for themselves without being punished for it in game.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

But I am not here to steal Sataar’s thread. Point is that some classes are more forgiving and require less skill to be comparable to other classes being played better.

yep and i dont want to take away from ppl that are playing the classes awesome and thats what nerfing does.

there will always be more forgiving classes and thats fine but you shouldnt be allowed to have 2-3 average ppl playing those classes and being very successful at paids.

ppl in the mist say to limit the cheese or no more cheese comps. and thats what this will do.

i made a forum reply about doing this when there was teams running 2-3 block bugging guardians. if this was implemented then it would have limited the bs we had to deal with until the fix.

Vanthian.9267:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

This is why I should screen shot… last time I checked, Caed, Sataar, hman, davinci were not bad players. But continue to think wars are weak that is fine. For the glass build only weakness is condi specifically slows. Give us anything else for the amount of burst we can do in 20/30/0/0/20 and it will be to stronk

I am not talking about a Greatsword Frenzy build. I am talking about any thing other than that. We have almost 0 builds outside of Greatsword Frenzy that will work in tPvP and even the Greatsword build isn’t good for tPvP when you consider other options available to you in terms of the other classes.

Even if we do trait into Tactics and Defense we get none of the actually good defensive boons in the game. We get a lack luster regen affect that isn’t work the points invested. Don’t even try to say that the Tactics minor traits are worth the investment… they are jokes. The only major trait that is of actual use is the Reflect projectiles. Healing shouts? A elementalist can dodge roll and heal for more and remove a condition. I don’t think it takes them 20 seconds at the minimum to get their dodge back; in fact, it is on a 10 second cool down.

You can say get “Last Stand” but that is a completely useless trait because you are still controlled on the first CC and stuck until it is over or you are forced to use a stun breaker to get out. What good is that?

It is a joke compared to any other type of sustain play class. They get vigor, regen, protection, swiftness and any other boon they want for the majority of the fight.

Warriors were named the “on demand” stability class yet it takes us a trait and 2 utility skills to match a elite of a Ranger (not to mention he gets swiftness and fury and might with it as well). How does that make sense?

Also, if you want to say that a Warrior dps is better than a thief dps….. that is no where near true. Thief’s don’t need to be babysat so they can go into a fight for 3 seconds to try and do some damage. Not to mention that the Thief burst is actually burst… 100 Blades is only slight burst if you add frenzy to it. It is more than easy to use a stun breaker in 1 and 3/4 seconds (3 and 1/2 seconds without frenzy.. useless). The Thief’s burst can take as low as 0.5 seconds (Mug+Backstab if they know what they are doing) and up to 1 second (Mug+CnD+Backstab), also don’t forget they poison and weaken you at the same time. Which is much more important in PvP than a single bleed stack.

Needless to say, in any 1vX situations the Warrior will just lie down and die if the other people are semi competent. So you can kiss trying to defend a point goodbye.

The best bet for a Warrior is to travel with at least one other person (even then you will just get focused because at max you might have 4 defensive option at a time on a longer cool down than Mesmer/Thief/Ranger bursts. All the while, your burst combo takes longer to cool down than the Mesmers/Thiefs/Rangers evades and “Oh poo” buttons) if not two people.

Sure, Warrior might be a decent class and solid against people who understand nothing about other classes, but you run into someone who actually knows how to play… it is night and day between which class is built better.

If you want to refuse then I will offer a open ear and eye to see and hear what you have to say. Show me a video of a Warrior defending a point against a competent PvPer in tPvP(paids) with any build. Not some video that is 45 seconds long with a fail Thief burst over and over again. Show me a video with a actual player trying to dislodge the Warrior from the point. That will have a influence, because as it stands right now the traits/utilities of other classes far superior and it is very easy to see.

sorry i didnt see if you want 1 class allowed per paid team so warrior will be more viable or not that is what this post is about.

you should reply either yes 1 class per paid team allowed will make warriors more viable or no i think they should keep nerfing everything to kitten until warrior ends up being the op class.

Hammerheart.1426:

How is this thread still alive? Op’s idea is a terrible bandaid to an underlying problem.

I’ve seen some bad ideas in my day, but this really takes the cake.

so u would rather waiting a month in between over powered because of nerf classes? let me know when you come up with a idea.

all u ppl do is qq on forums and say nerf everything until its not viable. and once that happens it leaves the remaining untouched classes op because the others are nerfed to kitten.

i know its a pretty hard concept to process but if you try reading again you might be able to comprehend the logic behind it. and bandaids help i dont understand how you can say bandaid in a derogatory way. for example the bandaid for mesmer macro. its way better then waiting 5 months tell they can fix the problem.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Fjandi.2516:

Edit: and pls anet nerf fiery great sword and tornado. Other elites just pale in comparison.

I wouldnt say Tornado is THAT OP, it is a tad but pretty useless unless its a group fight. Fiery Sword i have to agree with the Auto attack is WAY to powerful.

I had a fight with a Tornado using Ele and he went down FAST. I had 3 clones up used CoF giving him confusion and me Retal popped 3 more clones and used Mind Wreck (also gives Confusion from 3 clones and me) and with GS finished him off, it was great lol

please stop talking about nonsense in here tornado and weapon are fine. the elements on short cooldown are way better then any mesmer elite. they are great in team fights and 1v1 and are short CD. regardless this post is to make a 1 class limit per paid tournament per team.

urinfamousr.7631:

Braxxus.2904:

This entire thing has to be a well played troll thread by the OP at this point. There’s no way people are so dense as to actually believe the crap in here that he’s spewing.

thx for bumping the thread, keep it up the more who will read the thread. thx keep them coming

yes please keep bumping. and sorry you cant understand that the nerfs will keep happening if this doesnt get implemented.

Convict.8526:

lol whoever thinks a trap ranger , with zero stun breakers, a very unreliable pet, 1 random condtion removal is op your obviously bad.

l2p issue there, there are many ways to counter a trap ranger.

lol 30 secs to take down a bunker guardian,…are they supposed to be invincible? and if you lose as a bunker guardian in 30 secs, vs your ridiculous amount of blocks, invul, condt removal, armor, regen, knocbacks w/ hammer, your obviously bad.

yeah a tank ele can hold up 3v1 if there isnt too many stun bursts, while prodiving hella support to their team with wtf mobility.

a trap ranger is doomed 2v1, unless of course, your bad.

rangers havent had a single buff since the release of this game,. the trap build has been there since day one. and as of right noe the ONLY decent viable build in tpvp.

QQ more

trap rangers did get a buff actually but that is not the point nor is the point here that they are op. the point i said if you knew how to read was ranger and ele were probably were they should have been UNTIL they nerfed thief and mesmer so bad.

lastly a L2P issue is not the point i can destroy every ranger on this game ( if i play 100%) but a ranger can play so bad and still win and in team fights they are only exponentially stronger. so point here is any mediocre player can play a ranger and dominate.

so trying to defend something that is already getting nerfed is pointless. u should try getting a 1 class implemented into the game so they stop all these crazey nerfs.

IDarko.4709:

I just wanna point out that the game sold more than 3 mill units. Thinking that you or any of your friends invented any of the meta builds is just funny. I know plenty of people who used BM bunker builds shortly after launch with great success but never bothered to post them or record their play. All builds have already been created. You are not the inventor simply because you bother to stream/post it.

Also, restricting is bad. It removes a lot of teambuild possibilities. Anet wants to give every class more options in the end. Eventually, hammer wars might be as viable as GS wars. The same for the longbow wars. When that’s the case, people can run 2 wars but have different builds you know. Just because the game is not balanced enough yet, doesn’t mean that there should be a restriction. If anything, we can see what needs balancing a lot better right now so it should defy stay this way. Good way to see what needs tweaking, plus it allows more creativity at the same time.

i think you are so wrong. just because ppl run 4 eles doesnt mean that the ele is overpowered but with multiple then it does look op. so now we will nerf it because everyone is QQ ing about it. then ele and ranger will be aweful again. leaving ebgi to rain supreme over pvp for 2 months until that gets nerfed. so every team running 2-3 engis are going to say how awesome there team is.

you say the classes are not balanced yet well if we limit 1 class per team in paids until they are balanced then they can put it back to normal.

also im only saying this for paids leave free how it is.

Miko.5726:

Vanthian.9267:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Soon warrior will be OP. My day will come… mwuah hah haa

Here is to hoping we become viable!

Warrior and viable? How ? In which role? Sorry, but i havn´t got a clue. Thief, Ele, Mesmer, Ranger have a better mechanic, there´s nothing to be done about that.

One can allways dream!

after everything gets nerfed to kitten then warrior will become op then they will have to nerf it.

ty ty. crazy night now lets hope for awesome day. try not to be to sad i cant get on until tuesday

you guys are invited to celebrate the greatest mesmer in the worlds day of birth in your own way. i will be off at the club in 1 hour and spending a day in the city maybe disneyland depending on how tonight goes.

tomorrow on my b-day you can send me either 26 bronze or 26 silver or 26 copper in my mail if you cant catch my age imma be 26.

what i want from anet is a 1 class limit and mesmer moa back to normal and maps on random.

edit i was informed that tomorrow is also jaja b-day also

so most of u in here are either saying class is op or defending class but neither is what this post is about.

fact is ranger and ele are getting nerfed.

fact is they nerfed thief and mesmer so hard it made other classes way more viable.

fact is after they nerf ele and ranger then engi is going to be super op. then they will nerf them because there will be multiple of them in every game.

so i just suggest 1 class per team in paids for a bit and lets see how it goes for a bit. if its bad then take it out.

after i made this post i was informed about LOL and they use that. so if a Esport game does it then we at least should try.

Syko.3726:

They should either fix classes such as Elementalist OR make 1 class per team.

i hope they can fix all the classes but if they want time to balance instead of just nerfing they should implement 1 class.

Nier.2478:

I’ll repeat myself, do you honestly think your idea of one class allowed in tournaments is going to make a difference?

Are you really going to dismiss a prominent situation of a team with a Mesmer against a team that has none? You have too much map control and game changing BS like Time Warp. Inb4 you deny this simple fact and act as if Mesmers (one class making a difference) are balanced.

Until they fix this imbalance in which a team having one game changing class (such as Mesmer) that another team doesn’t have, effectively putting that other team at a disadvantage. Then they can decide whether to allow one class in tournaments or not. Because at this moment, your idea isn’t going to solve anything.

Get rid of time warp and balance the portal mechanic first such as getting rid of portal or giving EVERYONE the same mechanic at home point.

if u havnt noticed there is 3 mesmers in NA. there is more warriors then mesmers if that tells u something about mesmer usefulness

exoutlaw.8106:

I totally agree with you and I think if they do make this change it will help so much in competitive games. I think if this happens real life tournaments will start flocking to gw2.

well worst case scenario is they try it out for 1 month if its good they keep it if its bad they dont. might as well try it out now before ppl start getting serious.

Arheundel.6451:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

Krilce.7864:

Wasn’t you the one who was always stating that you should L2P, and not whine? Rangers are quite fine, however, eles are ones that need to be looked closely, because their insane healing capabilities, good damage, and what not is clearly over the top. Otherwise you wouldn’t be seeing so many eles being ran in competitive teams.

dont mistake my trying to fix the game with my own personal needs. i am fine against eles and rangers. and even dps guards. but when i have to play perfectly to barley stand a chance and they can kitten around miss a ton of doges and still when. then there is a problem for most players. most players dont play perfect 100% of the time. so some classes shouldnt get carried by the class it should be a skill based game.

The last professions that are allowed to talk about “skill” are mesmer and thief, 3/4 of your skills are auto-face , auto-aiming and automatic homing.
Mesmers spend over 60% of their time exclusively avoiding enemy attacks while your clones/illusion do all the work, then you press a button and you auto-face the target while your clones auto-homing from distance.
On the other side there is the thief with skills like HS= leap-auto-face-finisher all in one skill.

You don’t need to time anything, everything is instant cast, it’s no like you need to wait 3s before your skill activate and neither you need to channel one skill for 4.5s
Come back with your “skill” talk when you actually play a profession where every single skill is manual aiming ty bye bye.

I can understand a warrior complaining…an engineer..a ranger as well…but a mesmer/thief? GTFO pls

i guess u dont play mesmer and i will explain real fast and easy without being mean.

number 2 GS u have to stay on it while it bounces or it disapears number 3 u have to aim and 1 second stand still cast number 4 is 3 sec chanel number 5 you need to be close and watch for stability or dodges. ss 2 u need to be in 600 meter range ss 3 u need to be next to ppl 3 second channel and righ after u are in the middle of battle aka cleave hell pistol 4 3 second chanel then pistol 5 is just shoot. now here is the problem anything in the way of our abilities its on a 20 sec cd so a skilled player will make u absolutley useless.

for example holly wanted to test a retail guard and asked me to practice and i told him all the ways i can beat him an how he can beat me it is so rediculous that a clone of urself if misses is on a 20 sec cd when it shold still pop up and run to the target.

now u will say ohh thats a skill issue dont get obstructed. and i will say well thats why mesmer takes a lot of skill. then u say theif takes no skill? your comment is so silly im having a hard time replying. a thief and mesmer and warrior needs such perfect positioning otherwise its GG other classes dont if you need examples let me know i will reply.

Braxxus.2904:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

useless like mesmer -snip- in top lvl play.

Wut?

/15char

ohh u are confused let me explain to you how a great player at this game works.

a mesmer can make a shatter , a phantasm or a confusion build. a shatter build is the one i made viable it has to do with AOE and great positioning. it is a team based build it is not made to 1v1 in fact it cant 1v1 unless played perfect. but what do i mean by team based because it doesnt have aoe heals or condi clears like every class but thief and warrior but i mean team build for timewarp and portal players back to home. so if a ranger/ele can do the same dmg plus live longer plus heal team plus way more survivable then yes i would rather have 1 of them on my team.

phantasm build. yes this is probably a top 1v1 build (except dps retail guard destroys it.) in the game atm but in a team fight its useless because a mesmer without distortion is dead and the clones in a team fight get destroyed. also u will get nuted if your trying to win ur 1v1 every time. so i would take a ranger /ele / guard over that one.

then there is a condi confusion mesmer. i seen dom run it way back and it was just lol then i seen neru vitus run it last week and in short he no longer does.

so if you want to argue the viability of a mesmer in top lvl play then please be my guest go play one and let me know how u do.

im not trying to be mean or say i know it all even though i do but if you ask hman why warrior isnt viable he can tell you then he can tell you what does what he can do better.

im an amazing mesmer and know that whatever build i make and play if someone hopes on one of these other classes and plays half as good as me they can still win. thats not ok.

Walorx.5129:

First off, I’d like to thank you for the time you spent making the post, at least it had some thought in it like other QQ posts’. My thought on this topic is I firmly believe a team SHOULD be able to run as many of a certain class as they want. When you are limited to only 1 class type per team, it reminds me of WoW. It reminds me in that aspect because it’s just like “playing the healer”. If you have 4 of a certain class on a team and need one more but a person can’t join because they want to play the class they enjoy. Taking away someone’s experience because they are being forced to use something they don’t like to play is going against how GW2 works. Right now it’s mostly a casual game, so ANet will favor to that audience. Of course this is all my personal opinion, but I just feel the current system is superior to the one you suggested.
~Vöz

well that is why i want the 1 class. because right now hman for example is being forced to play something he dont want to play. and anyone that wants to be top team will need to do the same. i used this example before there is a team out there that will take 2-3 of the op classes rather its to guardian block bug or mesmer shatter macro or thief macro and will use multiple of them then say because that class is so viable they want to run multiple.

so now that those classes that were abused are now nerfed it only leaves truley a few classes to play and after these few get nerfed then we will have what left? engi? so if you look at it ppl are being made to play classes they dont want to now to keep up. so if you truley want ppl to play what they want then 1 class allowed in paids at a time per team. find a team that wants ur class. then your good to go.

Jumper.9482:

Talked with Grouch. Hopefully we can make the next SotG completely about class-balance. The balance discussion on SotG#3 was indeed lacking.

nice and that should be after the feb patch so if we get some real ppl in there it will be great

Expansive.3716:

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

Expansive.3716:

I’m sorry but this is such a troll of a thread.

Screaming that Ranger is OP? No that’s far from the issue. And if you want to bring a valid and constructive claim to the debate, then i’d advise that you propose Anet to allow the other weapons for the ranger (Greatsword and offhand axe to name a few) to be legitimately as viable as the other weapons.

Not only that, but better traits and traitlines.

LOL at the idea of the Ranger being nerfed. Yeah have that happen and I hope Anet are willing to face the reaction afterwords.

nope this thread says opposite of nerf it says restrict. in SOTG they said ranger and ele will be nerfed im trying to prevent that before they end up useless like mesmer and thief in top lvl play.

lol Sataar you have a knack for getting a lot of reactions from your threads.

But for the sake of not quoting the paragraph you stated about “your view of the Ranger” i’m just going to simply say that all the things you mentioned made it seem as if Ranger was an OP class.

Am I wrong in my assumption? And honestly if the “pro players” feels that ranger needs to be nerfed then i’m disappointed that Anet would take their viewpoints over the many millions that truly enjoy playing this game. The view of a few doesn’t speak for the voice of many.

to clarify and i have said it in all my threads i hate stuff being nerfed. but what i hate even more is ppl abusing bugs and exploiting. so when u get those out of the way then there is a game with multiple classes and builds and ppl that will theory craft awesome builds. now once those builds get brought up i dont fell like there should be so many on one team and my suggestion is to limit that by class limiting in paids.

they already nerfed mesmer and thief so bad that any new class and build will be able to beat them. and warrior never been viable so if u take those 3 out of the game then you are already limiting this game. so whats going to happen after this ele ranger balance is you will have engi left and jon said engi needs love???? i was so confused when i heard that. so now u have thief ,mes, ranger,and ele nerfed so engi is going to be op.

im not saying they are op im saying after other stuff gets nerfed it makes new stuff more viable and i dont like that either. i dont want to see a nerf i just dont want to see classes become not viable.

Krilce.7864:

Wasn’t you the one who was always stating that you should L2P, and not whine? Rangers are quite fine, however, eles are ones that need to be looked closely, because their insane healing capabilities, good damage, and what not is clearly over the top. Otherwise you wouldn’t be seeing so many eles being ran in competitive teams.

dont mistake my trying to fix the game with my own personal needs. i am fine against eles and rangers. and even dps guards. but when i have to play perfectly to barley stand a chance and they can kitten around miss a ton of doges and still when. then there is a problem for most players. most players dont play perfect 100% of the time. so some classes shouldnt get carried by the class it should be a skill based game.

Expansive.3716:

Balistix.2601:

Expansive.3716:

I’m sorry but this is such a troll of a thread.

Screaming that Ranger is OP? No that’s far from the issue. And if you want to bring a valid and constructive claim to the debate, then i’d advise that you propose Anet to allow the other weapons for the ranger (Greatsword and offhand axe to name a few) to be legitimately as viable as the other weapons.

Not only that, but better traits and traitlines.

LOL at the idea of the Ranger being nerfed. Yeah have that happen and I hope Anet are willing to face the reaction afterwords.

Rangers have imbalances (that are combinations of things available) that can’t be refuted.

2 Dodges within Sword/Dagger both on very short cool downs
An invul (in Marksmen)
20s Stability, Fury, Swiftness on a 120s Cooldown
Quickness

Their Short Bow apart from Sword/Dagger are significantly better than any other weapons, but what Anet needs to do is nerf what is currently too good and buff what isn’t.

Basically it feels like BWE3 all over again with heavy range condi comps.

+1 to you sir. But the main thing I disagree with is cutting down on those abilities. The Ranger as it stands now, does not have as much utility viability as the other professions.

You named two evades on 1 weapon for the ranger. And yet the true evade that the Ranger has as one of their utilities is Lightning Reflexes (which could use a bit of help)

But I very much agree with you in regards to the focus of the slightly weaker things that could use a buff. There shouldn’t be just 2 weapons or few traits that are more superior than the others.

And what I fear is that Anet would focus on nerfing the things that works and not properly handle the things that aren’t working. Then we’re back to square one of figuring out how to fix the class again.

I beg you Anet to take a good look at what can be improved before touching anything that is currently working for the class.

i fell that they are just going to nerf ranger and its goinmg to make a lot of ppl mad. i want them to try one class allowed for even just a month and u wont have to worry about a nerf. because we will be able to see actual data numbers. then we can start brinning stuff up to balance not taking stuff down.

Mufa.1326:

Taym.8326:

Mufa.1326:

I think it is a really bad idea.
Appearance of teams running multiples of single class and dominating is actually very good data point about OP-ness of the class and need to tone it down.
Now you would completely remove that data.
The solution is to balance the class, not to destroy data that points out that class is OP.

What he is suggesting is a way of balance as well, instead of having 3 ele’s spam heals on each other now only one would do it. ….

Sorry to be negative but again NO. What he suggests is to force 5v5 to be more balanced by making every team (almost) the same. (Now composition like 5 warriors that some ppl like to play becomes impossible. And if you have 2-3 super-classes that all teams bring in, then remaining 2 spots will be all the differentiation between teams)

At the same time his suggestion will severely obscure class imbalances.

Get it? “5v5 balance” versus “class balance”. 5v5 balance should be product of good class balance, not of forcing ‘1 class per team’.

Again, sorry to be negative but I think it is really bad idea, now if two buddies like that play the same class and they play it well, they cannot be in the same team, or one of them will be forced to play the class he does not care to play. Come on guys, ask ANET to do their kittening job properly (balance classes), do not make bad suggestions like this.
Games are about having fun and letting people do what they want within a good framework. Currently ANET needs to improve the framework (balance classes, tone down AOE and severely tone down rezzing ability in downed state) if they want 5v5 to get better. If you start putting severe limitations, like preventing ppl to play classes they want to play, you will lose even more players.

well it fells like anet got in over there head with this game and not have top players testing the pvp for a long time. and not just top players but thery crafters. so now when new stuff it brought up all you on forums say nerf and it gets nerfed then new stuff pops up and destroys everything ele until it gets nerfed. so if anet can make a magic balance patch that would be nice but i dont see that happening. there will always be ppl getting on the op banwagon and riding it until the nerf. my suggestion fixes that.

Expansive.3716:

I’m sorry but this is such a troll of a thread.

Screaming that Ranger is OP? No that’s far from the issue. And if you want to bring a valid and constructive claim to the debate, then i’d advise that you propose Anet to allow the other weapons for the ranger (Greatsword and offhand axe to name a few) to be legitimately as viable as the other weapons.

Not only that, but better traits and traitlines.

LOL at the idea of the Ranger being nerfed. Yeah have that happen and I hope Anet are willing to face the reaction afterwords.

nope this thread says opposite of nerf it says restrict. in SOTG they said ranger and ele will be nerfed im trying to prevent that before they end up useless like mesmer and thief in top lvl play.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ele is too strong. Ranger too of course.

The problem for me is the snails pace at which balance seems to proceed. Small changes is a very smart tactic from Anet but those small changes therefore need to be frequent. Currently we have had an ele dominated situation for a while now. I think 3 is probably the most successful number. Teams with 3 in paids seem to do best vs me. So thats often half the players in any game being a single class of 8

It shouldn’t take so long to balance what is a progressively bigger problem as more and more players just give up and play ele so they can dominate. If they are going to do slow changes to balance then they need to make bigger changes to keep the game fresh. Balance changes are as good as new content because it keeps the game fresh and lets me play new builds or classes which are currently on the backburner but I would love to play again. I mean imagine is a shout or banner warrior became more competitive. I would love to try those builds out. Same for a minion necro.

As for the idea: This is the most unworkable idea I can imagine. It restricts play completely and is just a flat out bad idea. A lot of people (even at competitve level) play the class they wanna play. I cant bring a guildie and say “o yeh you cant play necro as I am”. Thats ridiculous.

i used to think that also but then i seen hman playing a ranger then ele. so no ppl play the op class to win not what they want to play. actually very few ppl play what they want to play even raytek went to necro and jumper when jumper wanted to go competitive went necro. so there is many examples of ppl not running what they want so i think this will fix it.

Xsorus.2507:

The SToG was pretty entertaining, because you could tell that Anet was hesitant to nerf Trap Rangers because really other then it and the BM Bunker build there really isn’t a reason to run a ranger.

Spirit Builds like they said, they gutted in beta…. and Power/Precision Builds are just awful on the ranger since they gutted Great Sword in beta (and to a lesser extent, Shortbow early release)

there isn’t a whole lot of build versatility for the Ranger currently mostly because of the way anet has handled things in the past.

As for counters for the Trap builds, i imagine Venom P/D specs would work well against them as well as they do the BM Bunker Specs…, not sure how well that’d do in a group fight. Venom Sharing would be good counter to it I think but problem is Venom Sharing Radius is low, and you basically have to give up the Heal while in stealth which isn’t simply an option in my opinion.

i imagine Engineer’s though will be designed around countering Trap Builds in the future.

yeah so thats why i dont want them nerfing them truthfully. then they will become useless like mesmer. i want them to limit them so they are not so op.

gwawer.9805:

I question the fair judgment of a player who says “I think warriors are pretty good” and "trap rangers and elementalists aren’t overpowered

Elementalists are overpowered right now and if a person tries to deny it then they are clearly speaking in their own classes favor or the planet team with two elementalists and our freight that they are overpowered composition is going to suffer if that class suffers a Nerf.

I question the judgment of anyone who says warriors are pretty good right now, Rangers are fine, and elementalists aren’t overpowered. Don’t invite that kind of trash to state of the game anymore. If that’s all a “top player” is able to contribute, then please just have only the host and the developers and no more “top players”.

Some of the players who get invited cherry pick what they say during the class balanced discussion because they don’t want to Nerf they are preferred class, and don’t want to give buffs to opposing classes.

These players on state of the game are trying to avoid the topic altogether sometimes because if they want to be seen as a honest contributor, they would have to mention the overpowered class that they play and the underpowered classes that other people play. Otherwise they would be seen as dishonest and biased and would lose credibility with the player base. So they just try to avoid the topic altogether.

This kind of person provides no contribution to the state of the game talk, and is even detrimental to the further balancing of PVP. Stop inviting people like this, and Instead just have the host asked from a list of questions that give voted the most in a “questions to ask during state of the game talk”

well i agree with u completely there is now reason a self promoting person should be on SOTG. you need ppl that look out for everyones best interest. not the top team at that moment. if this happens even for a month there wil be great games there is no need to nerf or buff anything until after this.

in the SOTG they might be right they are not op but when there is more then 1 then they become op

Rump Buffalo.2594:

OR…and this is just a really wild thought here

We could balance the op classes and wait at least until feb 26th where we should be getting a balance patch… you know… maybe

to relate this to moba.
GW2: 1/8 locked = 12.5% of all available classes/builds locked
so every team will effectively have 62.5% of the playable classes in any given team

LoL: 6(bans)/ what like 110 now? something like that

so 6/110 = about 5.75% of available CHAMPIONS (does not limit builds due to items/runes being universal).

GW2: would be 62.5% of available classes with variant builds on each team
LoL: is (5 per team as well) ~4.8% of all available champions, having nothing to do with builds on each team.

do you see the huge difference in availability pool and why this is a really stupid idea? this stifles game variety more than op classes could. you disallow teams the ability to even try interesting things like double necro / double engi. They are less effective surely but they are available.

Balancing is the answer here, not off the handle knee jerk changes to accommodate current team comp staleness. Additionally i rarely am seeing 2 eles 2 rangers or 2 guardians in a team. I am not at the pro level, but i don’t ever see super exploitative builds that I cannot handle with some cunning.

well when u get to top lvl u will see how the comps are built around op builds. so that is the reason i say only in paids. at your lvl in frees and hot join by all means have fun do weird fun stuff. but in paids we should at least try it for a month. if its not good fine kick the idea.

kostbabis.8791:

haha pvp pros thinking their pvp pro needs..or i might say fail to think..
Im playing warrior(??)and my other friend is playing warrior.. so in order to do one god kitten rating tournament together one of us should reroll relearn the class,get accustomed to the mechanics and develop muscle memory and potentially change his team role.
You know this is an 8 class mmo whith classes that are more complicated than your average moba and a huge pve community thats struggling to find a reason to participate in spvp..and you suggest we make it worse!Yep cut the folks out of paids..they have hot join and frees who cares
Niiiice one

well not to be mean or sound elitist because i dont want u to get the wrong idea but there is a reason i dont know u. maybe not being able to run 2 warriors will make you more viable so it force you to run a better comp and you will win more. after reading your reply you sound like someone trying to be heard but truly after i seen hman run ranger then all hope for warriors was gone IMO.

also i said to earlier in a reply. that in free tournaments then u can run that 2 warrior comp but you are not bringing that into paids and beating anyone with over a 500 invisable MMR rating.

but great reply im glad to hear from someone not running double ele or ranger build replying in disaprovement.

Acandis.3250:

No.
Why would ANet want to limit players choices?

The reason people pick 2+ of a class right now is because either:

• The class is OP
• People want to run 2+ of that class.

The only work that needs to be done to solve the first is class balance. Once that’s done there probably won’t be that many cheese comps but it doesn’t eliminate them entirely. This lets teams work with whatever they please without limiting their options.

yes but a class might not be op if there isnt multiple of them. so if we keep nerfing then they will end up not viable like mesmer and thief now. and maybe then we will see warriors become useful. and jon said “engi needs love” ? i hope he has seen q and hiba and 5 guage play enji before he goes and makes this happen again

Xsorus.2507:

I mean this is something a few of us rangers came up right after the SB nerf, and it’s just now being figured out and used in SPvP….I think most have adopted the 0/0/30/10/30 build I came up with, but there were a few others using similar builds (Basically swapping the beast mastery into Skirmish Line) and running heavy Toughness/Condition gear..

It does have counters at least in 1v1 fights (Think its Wild Bills Venom P/D spec) but i’m not sure how good that’d work in a group fight setting.

Trap Build Rangers have even been used longer then that.. I mean that’s something that’s existed since bloody beta that a lot of us used…

yep they been around but until u bring 2-3 them into a game they arnt super op