Guild Wars 2

pandemos.3497:

SHM.7628:

Progression? I don’t get a sense of progression with this game anyway. I am down leveled., my rewards diminish. Level is just a pointless .number in this game. There were lots of DE’s in the midrange that i just couldn’t do because I was alone in the map.

Are you level 80? with full exotics? because my character is orders of magnitude more powerful than when I initially created it, to the point that I felt bad doing an event in queensdale similar to hitting rifts outside of Meridian at max level. I was even thinking I might try the fire elemental again!

My main is level 80 in full exotics. Sure, I’m overpowered the starter areas like queensdale. There’s no real reason to go there anyway. They are out of the way and the rewards are not worth it anyway.

Raven Paradox.1860:

It’s really all about progression. I hate leveling to the point where it’s “aww I just want to be max lvl on this toon I don’t want to spend countless hours playing it”, but it’s for progression. Even when downleveled you still have that reward for being 80. Being 80 in WvW gives you an extreme advantage (well, nowadays its an extreme disadvantage if you aren’t 80) and you have your traits to use.

Honestly, That is how I felt with my 80 warrior. Let me just get there and get my gear and I’m done. I never felt progressed because of downleveling and diminishing rewards.

I just feel you can do with a few levels what they are doing with 80 (given this system) you can master your weapons and unlock traits /skill points as you go.

Polluxo.4967:

Because the first thing MMO-conditioned players are going to ask is, “how many levels are there?” And some of them will judge the game based on the amount of levels.

They didn’t do it to reinforce their ideal of the game, it’s simply a genius marketing ploy.

While I see what you are saying. I just think their system is broken.

Rise.9702:

Painking.4703:

If the game didn’t have levels, you’d have alot of players simply not knowing what to do, because there’s -so- much to do. A lot of people that are turned off of minecraft cite this as a reason, having absolutely no pre-set goals leaves players scratching their heads in what should be done next. Not to mention if a new player wanted to go right to Orr and started complaning about the difficulty, why is it so much harder of an area if the whole game is the same?

We all need a sense of progression and leveling does that for us. Everyone likes to see the numbers get higher, that little flash of light that occurs, that statement of “I leveled up” every race has, it’s a gratifying experience.

I like the feeling of leveling up. Also, leveling up gets you a skill and trait point. Also it keeps you intact on where you should and shouldn’t go. I would be lost if I had no levels and then go over to a tougher opponent and not knowing what level he was then die lol then try and find an easier one.

Even if you are not for level elimination, they could be greatly reduced. You can get over the learning curve in the starter areas then just play all over. Its essentially like that at level 80 anyway. They downlevel you to the level.

I am just not seeing the point to an 80 level grind with this system.

wookie slayer.4259:

The only real reason for levels is to give a sense of progression and gating so you can’t just go everywhere at the beginning. In the early levels it also servers to hold skills back so people arnt overwhelmed.

But yes this game could be levelless and would not make a huge difference. I would prefer levels and stated gear progression as I like progression alot. But that’s a opinion.

Progression? I don’t get a sense of progression with this game anyway. I am down leveled., my rewards diminish. Level is just a pointless .number in this game. There were lots of DE’s in the midrange that i just couldn’t do because I was alone in the map.

Natjur.4017:

The higher levels give higher rewards, if anyone after a few mins where ‘max’ level, they would all move to the end zones and the middle zones would never get used.

The whole point was make the rewards uniform. If the rewards were the same, wouldn’t you go all over? Added bonus, you can just scrap DR.

Red Falcon.8257:

They wanted it this way and it’s not like they’re going to scrap the whole for no benefit at all.

I just don’t think the system works as they intended it to.

This game is not about rewards anyway. (look at DR) Forcing someone to get and stay in an area seems obsurd. Whether its forcing them with higher Karma or with XP for leveling.

Do you understand that I am not really an advocate for this? I’m just saying if you want everyone all over then make everything uniform.

please read the whole thing before you flame

It appears that the point to the design is to have everyone playing all over. Why not just have a starter area and then your fully leveled once you play through? You get out and then play all over. Different rewards and different levels are preventing that.

I thought the idea was “no grind play how you like” and then you put 80 levels in? Why not then just do the 20 levels like in GW1? The same can be said about gathering materials. It routes the player into specific areas.

I won’t lie, I am not a fan of this system, I like rewards. Clearly, you guys don’t get that. In lieu of that, homogonize everything and let people just go wherever. I mean, you are downleveling everyone anyway. What is the point?

Um ok, so everybody is equally unhappy with their professions and the game ………..so good work?

Pardon me, I thought the point was for everyone to love the game and enjoy their professions. If you went toa restaurant and everyone thought the food was equally bad, would your return? Or would you go to a place where everything was superb?

teemoor.4397:

And you help your group… how? By standing there all tough? Tougness if laughable. Go take a hit from a boss with all toughness you can get. I think you could also lend some toughness to your ally in an AOE right?

I really think what you said cuts to the crux of the issue. Obviously, you can’t tank champions and big bosses. Doing that with toughness would be suicide.

That said, 99.9% of the PVE game is ungrouped zerging or soloing mobs. In that regard, toughness and good damage is key. This is especially true when using melee weapons. You really won’t need the healing skill (stat) to get through most of these battles. If I am careful, I won’t have to even use my healing skill.

You’re point is well taken though. I think everyone contributed nicely on this thread. I don’t look at this as being a “black or White” thing. I think everyone can run their build in a way that works for them and that they find enjoyable. I don’t think anyone was "wrong’ per se.

Velkyn.9285:

Grakor.3450:

I’ve just reached the conclusion that this game pretty much is a single player game. (perhaps a very good one)

What do you mean it’s a “single player game”? The only single player content is open world PvE

The quote you used was actually from my post not Grakor’s so I’ll address it. I am not into PVP, I have done it before, and I’ve done some WvW. I was mainly talking about the PVE.

I did say dungeons were the exception. In truth, I find them pretty useless anyway because the rewards can be found else where. You can help your party somewhat with skills. It is kind of limited. Of course people who play their characters effectively will do better grouped. there’s very limited synergy though.

Back to my original point. This game (IMO) plays like a single player game. Damage, dodge run,, heal, rinse and repeat. Your class or grouping is not really essential in the equation. The best way to do well in the game is by massively zerging. This is my observation having played the game from beginning to end.

Feel free to disagree.

Grakor.3450:

Speaking as a guardian in full cleric’s gear…

Healing power is one of those stats that is only useful if you have a lot of healing that you can do for other people. It’s inferior as a survival stat, yes, and the healing that HP gives you on any individual skill is pretty low. However, once you have five heals on your bar, all able to also hit allies (for example, a mace+focus / staff shouter build) then the healing that you get from the stat very, very quickly adds up once you count all of the targets that get hit with it. It’s very much a support stat. There’s been a number of times where I’ve rescued someone from downed state, and then they ended up very quickly reaching back to 100% health simply due to all of the healing I’m constantly outputting between my weapon skills, “Hold the Line!”, Healing Breeze, and the dodge-roll heal.

It’s not like in most MMOs where you’re constantly outputting huge burst heals. Healing in GW2 seems to mostly be for the purposes of sustainability, and in that sense it’s very useful.

Thanks, I see what you mean. I’ve just reached the conclusion that this game pretty much is a single player game. (perhaps a very good one) Once I realized that, I was happier with the game. When I stopped expecting the game to play like an MMO, I enjoyed it more.

As for the guaridan, if a weapon skill happens to heal then great. I’ll take it. Like I said, most of the time its about you personally suriving when soloing or zerging. Grouping is useless for all intents and purposes anyway. The exception being dungeons, but there’s no real payoff there. The endgame is a grind for karma for weapons and exotic armor.

I’m not ranting or even complaining about GW2. These are just my observations. Perhaps the game plays differently than the devs intended. It is what it is. Often times it was a lot of fun. Thanks for your reply.

thanks, you guys confirmed what i already knew. Still, always good to get a second opinion.

Hmm, I think I agree. (and I only pve) My first level 80 was a W. The regen from healing signet was trenendous. There wasn’t even healing in a trait to raise. plus I am not seeing a big difference in healing others. Like you said, I’d throw a few points into it, but it isn’t a game changer.

I’m a lvl 60 Norn guardian. I really wanted to max out the healing sub trait (Honor) It just doesn’t seem to do a lot compared to the bang for your buck you get with heavy defense and damage. Is it just me or is the healing only marginal?

For most 99.9% of battles, I’m feeling that ending the battle quicker with damage, and reducing damage through defense work way better. Also, maybe its hard to notice, but I don’t feel as if I am greatly impacting other players with the healing. Yes the vitality is always nice, but still.

Agree? disagree? please, feel free to tell me. I ’d love to hear how its working for you.

@kidbs, had no idea we couldn’t dual, never tried. I deleted the post.

I am no longer happy with my greatsword since the last patch. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good replacement?(for PVE) I’ve tried all the weapons and didn’t find anything I was thrilled with. Perhaps someone has had luck with a dual weapon set?

deriver.5381:

SHM.7628:

The class nerfs, the bot fixes, DR, to just name a few broad ones. The camera fix was useless too. Although they fixed a lot of bugs there’s still plenty.

And there will always be plenty. Welcome to the world of MMOs.

Understood. That is why I report bugs and don’t make a fuss about them specificly. My point was the patches have caused more problems than they solved.

The class nerfs, the bot fixes, DR, to just name a few broad ones. The camera fix was useless too. The respawn rate is still broken. Although they fixed a lot of bugs there’s still plenty.

One after another your patches have kittened up a game that was working. Even more frustrating, the patches have failed to significantly fix anything that has needed fixing. At this point, I’d prefer youi guys just rolled back every patch. the bugs were easier to deal with than your fixes. Do us all a favor and stop patching the game.

I could start listing things you guys broke.. The list would be too long and other than to rant, it would serve no purpose. If you guys wnna list what they broke, feel free.

Zsymon.8457:

Polaritie.4851:

Um, Whirling Wrath got a cd reduction, didn’t it?

That’s your extra dps.

No it didn’t, it’s still 10 seconds.

And yeah, this change to guardian made me lose all faith in anet’s gameplay philosophy. I loved the guardian greatsword, I loved the damage and I loved how the skills were placed, now both the damage and the placements are ruined.. good job breaking yet another profession/build..

^^This^^

It was the one good weapon we had. With the necessity to be up close to use any healing skills (not to mention a lack of any raged weapons) They killed the effectiveness. Then they hurt us even more by nerfing symbol of wrath ….Sigh.

Danicco.3568:

They want every Guardian to roll Warriors, don’t you guys get it?

Geez, I gotta explain everything…

/sarcasm

Now, instead of making the less popular professions more attractive (from their report on professions popularity released some time ago), they make them LESS attractive?

Though it’s probably due to balance but… I still don’t see how a Warrior who can combo something stupid like Stun/Immobilize and hit #2 can deal nearly 10k damage to someone who can’t Break Stuns…
But well, probably the 2500ish damage every 10 seconds from Symbol of Wrath was clearly out of the line. It had to be nerfed.

Still love my W. Up until this patch I loved my guardian almost as much. Well, that’s pretty much over now..

I don’t understand Anet. The key order for guardian greatsword skill was perfect before. It just flowed. Now its assbackwards. Symbol of wrath was one of the great things we had with the retaliation.

What were they thinking? We have no ranged weapons to speak of. Staff and scepter are mid-range at best. They killed guardian.

There’s so much broken stuff in this game. Why mess with something that was working?

the biggest problems with the camera.. its too close, it bounces around when you get close to a wall or other object, and gets obstructed by the scenery. None of these things have been handled.

There’s only 2 Gw dealbreakers for me. The Camera and DR. They are 0 for 2 in this patch.

@choaskirin

What I said was true. One of the Monsters, (not a whole mob)was a pirate. The other some kind of (yellow) boar. I went after the yellow boar because I knew that I hadn’t killed it.

If what you said is true that monsters in the world longer = more XP, then it might explain that, since most people probably just leave them be. If you are right, I am going to be killing boars a lot! Not sure I buy that though.

I can assure you of one thing. I was not lying.

I never realized how hard Dr hits (per kill) XP until today. I solo killed two different level 50 monsters on the same map. The One I hadn’t killed before gave 400% more XP. I watched it on the Combat chat. That hurts, i never thought of checking that before.

All I can say is…………. OUCH!

I think its the design more than anything else. different races, big map, different objectives.. You are probably not going to be doing the same thing for very long. Perhaps if you start a pair of characters with a friend and then run together fairly regularly.

I can use some friends for a change. I’ve been solo since launch. Sounds like a blast to be in a small guild that group runs the map sand does events, PS, etc.. I mean just having 2 to 3 friends different profs that work well together makes the game fun.

Sigh, doesn’t seem like it was meant to be.

I think not moving to totally remove DR was a mistake on the dev’s part. However, I’m willing to at least look at the game with the new changes to DR. I am by no means hardcore. If I am hit with it at all, I’ll know there’s still a problem and the game is broken.

“If the account gets reported 10 to 20 times in a short period, they need to check the activity. "

In a game with guilds of like-minded miscreants, it’s very easy to get a group of people to spend 2 minutes spamming reports about innocent players. They get a good laugh out of it, the staff responsible for checking the reports wastes the next several hours, and sometimes innocent players get banned because they do something that seems suspicious but is later revealed to be a mistake.

I suppose they don’t teach kids about the McCarthy Era or how easy it is to get innocent people into a lot of trouble.

@tolunart,
stop trolling. I said If the account gets reported 10 to 20 times in a short period, they need to check the activity. do their due dilligence and then ban them. what part of that did you not understand?

The report function is there already. So now you are suggesting it be removed? I have yet to see you add anything valid to the discussion. If someone says Black you respond white". Do you just enjoy trying to get a rise out of people?

People are bringing up various ways to to deal with bots, exploiters, goldsellers. It’s not really all that complex. If the account gets reported 10 to 20 times in a short period, they need to check the activity. do their due dilligence and then ban them.

I’ve been getting between 2 and 10 gold seller emails a day. Put in a report button. When people report them = ban them. I don’t know why they are doing mental gymnastics on this. Its a fairly simple and straightforward process.

Before anyone says they have no idea what you are doing on your account, oh really? Remember those people who crafted and sold to the merchant for profit and they banned them? they can do it.

Lysidian.4653:

tolunart.2095:

vjek.4270:

tolunart.2095:

… The option that does nothing constructive, however, is to keep shouting the same arguments. A dialogue is a two-way exchange of information. Arenanet has said they heard you, and are working on it. Continuing to yell as though they said nothing will not make the fixes come any faster. You’re just making more work for the mods who spend their days closing botting and DR rant threads.

Listen. Wait. Do something else if you must. But continuing to rant about this accomplishes nothing.

16 years of experience with previous MMO’s and previous MMO developers disagrees with you, tolunart. Specifically, those that rant the loudest and most often, -always- get their way.

With no monthly fees required to play, Arenanet sets themselves apart as a different kind of company with a different kind of game. I sincerly hope that you are wrong.

Say, for example, that 25% of the game population stops playing in protest. A month later, they announce they have fixed the DR problem and the majority of those players come back. What have they lost? They did not lose a single subscription payment.

Even players who refuse to return nevereverever may come back after their butts stop hurting, when new content is released or when they get bored enough to dust off the disk and reinstall.

Its like the thing with a bad resturant….. if 1 person has a bad experience with a resturant, they will go off and tell 10 people its bad. Word of mouth, can really have a large impact. How many players have been kitten off over DR? Even if it was only 10,000, that could imply that 100,000 people got told this game blows due to DR.

Fixing the issue might get some of those people to come back……but then again how many wont? I think most of the issue after the red post is that the DR shouldnt have been put in to start with. It shouldnt take weeks to fix. Its really shady to say this was put in to help deal with bots. We only got one response in 3 weeks. No updates, no nothing. Hell it took 2 weeks of kittening just to get acknowledged. After getting burned, its really hard to trust ANET. Its also very frustrating that they seem to be taking their time with it, like its no big deal.

Because GW2 doesnt have a subscription doesnt make ANET immune from delivering a quality product and trying to provide for their player base. They might have less incentive to do so, but thats a double edged sword. Players will have less incentive to keep playing and to make future purchases.

You are 100% correct.

They do have something to lose. Something irreplacable = their name and rep.

Word of mouth means everything. Look at Diablo 3. I played 1 and 2. I would have bought 3 just beacuse I played and liked the first 2. Word of mouth killed it for the. Once a few people started telling me the same thing, it was a no brainer.

There is of course something else on the line, expansions if they happen and the cash shop.

PS- I don’t like calling people fanboys or trolls. Suffice it to say, I did warned you about wasting your breath on Tolunart.

Lysidian.4653:

tolunart.2095:

Does anyone here saying “hire more people” actually own a business, or at least work in a management position that involves hiring workers?

There’s a lot more to it than grabbing someone off the street and saying “sit here and watch for bots.” Advertising, interviews, hiring, background checks (you don’t give just anyone off the street access to your computer systems and the ability to mess with real paying customers), training, benefits, Social Security payments, taxes and paperwork, employee turnover rates, hiring someone else to replace every employee who quits or gets fired, it costs a lot more than $10/hr to hire a worker, and watching over dozens of servers (I counted 24 American servers, not sure about elsewhere) by manning three shifts a day, seven days a week… you’re talking about hiring a staff of dozens if not hundreds of people.

So, you would pay $50 a month to play a game with a live anti-bot team on staff? More?

Because Bots werent a problem in the MMO industry until GW2 launched right?
Because ANET had absolutely no warning that bots might plague their game before launch right?
Because imposing systems that hurt and diminish their customers enjoyment with a product they paid for is totally justified right?

We see your point, but we arent hearing it, and for my part, I dont care to. They screwed up, time to pay the piper.

Right on lysidian. They knew about bots. They are a viable company (not a fly by night. or a start up) What’s more, They took their time with this game. A lot of time and then a lot of testing (open and closed betas.)

Understood, Its a new game and issues arise. The suggestion that they can’t affors to handle bots is absurd. The notion that they didn’t expect then is even more crazy. They simply kittened up with DR as a solution.

Going back and forth with tolunart a waste of time. He will find ome way to defend them come Hell or high water.

arabeth.2361:

Ultimately, if you are frustrated, the best thing you can do is focus on another area of the game until it’s fixed. Level up some alts or something – that’s my advice. Banging your head against the wall doesn’t help your head or the wall.

I disagree on the vocal minority point…………but whatever on that. Maybe people miss it if they don’t look at thei reward medal. Maybe others who don’t pay attention to drops miss it too.

It’s hitting people, I’ve been hit with it on the first even after an aproximate 12 hour logout. It’s hit me on my alts, while doing hearts in newly opened areas in the first 20 minutes (probably less). Hurts less on the alts with the karma, but it still sucks to quickly see your rewards halved then dropped repeatedly from there. especially when you are leveling.

To you’re point, “do something else”? after reading may last paragraph, what do you recommend I do?

Redscope.6215:

SHM.7628:

Why people cry over the bug? This has gone on 2 weeks without even a mention that it was a bug. I think the reason for that was the backlash was more than they expected.

People are crying on this forum 24/7. If they changed everything due to people crying, they’d be changing every aspect of the game for the duration they support it. You can’t assume because people make long-winded posts about leaving the game that tons of people are leaving, can you?

Dude I you wanna bury your head in the sand fine. I’ve seen behaviors change. People tagging groups to exploit because of DR, when they would have played through before.

I’ve been at empty events that were formerly full. I’ve seen a dramatic drop in the amount of people playing. The maps ( I can only speak for what i’ve seen on my server) are dramaticly emptier.

I’ve reported bugs. lots of people have. There are going to be bugs. Most accept that. There’s a camera bug, but Its being worked on. I know because there was a response. Fair enough. It’s not eing brought up now.

Yes, people have been bringing up complaints. If you want to consider them criers or whiners, fine. Most people who post concerns actually like the game. However, people have been leaving over DR. Stark difference between this and DR.

DR shouldn’t be here in any incarnation. It’s not the fact that its buggy, It’s the fact it was ever implemented. You are very much in the minority on this one if you like/support DR. Look at this thread and then look at others. 99% people agree on here

vjek.4270:

SHM.7628:

… I doubt it was ever a bug. I think it was intentional, and they disliked the bad press. and/or lost revenue at the cash shop.

That is all hindsight. Now we have an answer. Are you are asking why people are continuing to "cry’ as you put it.? My answer is this. DR has no place in an MMO. It’s too problematic and does nothing to Bots. There’s a million ways it can mess up = innocent players get punished.

Plus I don’t want to have to monitor their failure of a system. I also don’t want to have to worry about “playing right” That is too much work. You say they are crying, I say they are kitten off and other than full rollback of DR will be unacceptable. …

Yep, you’re dead on, SHM. GW2 is going to be known as “That MMO with DR” until it’s removed. People don’t want to play a game knowing every single moment of play, every keypress, every mouse click and in-game action is lessening their reward. DR has to go, or it will be the doom (to varying degrees) of GW2.

Put another way, here’s a few conversations between two hypothetical gamers:
—
“Hey, you gonna buy GW2 or MoP?”
“I was gonna buy GW2, but it has diminishing returns, so I’m going with MoP”
—
“Hey, I’m looking for a new MMO, what’s new and good?”
“Anything but GW2”
“Why, I heard it’s really good?”
“Yep, it is, but it has DR”
“Oh, well forget that!”
—
“Hey, let’s play some GW2”
“Nah, they only let you play for 30 minutes each day, then they nerf your loot”
“What? Screw that, then, let’s go play <insert game here> then, where they don’t do that”.
—
“Hey, why aren’t you playing GW2, I thought you waited 5 years for that game?”
“I did, but they put in diminishing returns, which presumes guilt before innocence, so I don’t see any point in playing anymore”
“Well that’s too bad, it looked really good!”
“In every other way that matters, it’s a great MMO. It’s a real shame, yep”
—

This will happen. In fact, I would bet a dollar these conversations are already happening. Every second DR is in GW2, this will continue to be the case more often, until it’s another forgotten MMO, just like GW1.

The solution is clear, Arenanet: Take out DR. Remove it entirely. Do it now before MORE irreversible harm is done to your intellectual property, brand, and game.

People have said whole 80 player guilds have cleared out. I have no reason to disbelieve them.I left myself until they gave an explanation. I’ll wait and see what there next move is before doing anything further.

rook.4625:

I got you. Look, lol, they’re trying to innovate this genre. Pioneers somewhat. That kitten is not easy. I agree with you on the replay value, as I argue for any kind of additional content @80. But we’re not paying monthly for this feature, so to some extent, this game is revolutionary in that it combines elements of MMO and SRPG together.

I know they have a vision for their game too. And I won’t be surprised if you see future mmos (Titan included) building on the goals ANet is trying to achieve.

Thanks, I get you too. All they would have to do to make me 100% happy with this game again = remove all traces of DR.

rook.4625:

Man, I know where you’re coming from Travleer. But c’mon, tell me you didn’t have fun with this game? It really does boil down to “was it worth your $60” and in that sense, I find most of us agree.

Seems some of us are spoiled from previous games, myself included. After reading the Oct. 4th statement, I’m starting to see now they need our patience, and if we give them that, they will come through.

I will very likely be purchasing expansions.

I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I bought the game because of their reputation of making a fine game with replay value. No, I don’t find 2 weeks of acceptable play. DR is a dealbreaker. Had they mentioned that up front = I wouldn’t have purchased.

If I liked the game, I wouldn’t mind supporting them with Cash Shop purchases and buying expansions.. Giving me a lackluster game then making me pay to improve it? No.

To sumerize: 2 weeks of good play doesn’t feel like i got my money’s worth.

Redscope.6215:

JonPeters.5630:

Some players have run into “diminishing returns” thresholds we put into the game to provide a safety net against unanticipated economy-breaking issues. We do have these thresholds in place, but it’s not our intention that normal players should ever run into them. We’ve recently had bugs and imbalances that have caused normal players to hit thresholds, and we’ll fix those.

So there are bugs, and they will be fixed…given enough time and priority.

Why people cry and cry about buggy systems is beyond me, report the bug and be patient on the fix. Anet is a company made of human beings; they don’t have any more hours in the day than you or I do. And they have to go to sleep at some point.

JonPeters.5630:

It would be bad for everyone if, for example, a group of players learned how to speed-clear a dungeon in 5 minutes, with full rewards each time, and then repeated that continuously.

That’s fine, but as described earlier 15 minutes is when the exploit DR kicks in. When you’ve got a group of geared 80s who play well, its not inconceivable for them to run through explorable mode in 15 minutes or less without actually ‘exploiting’ anything.

5 minutes I can see. None of those dungeons are do-able in 5 minutes unless you’re exploiting simply due to the amount of content.

JonPeters.5630:

While we need a safety net to stop unanticipated economy-breaking exploits and botting, we have no desire to stop farming. Farmers are a part every online economy and when they are doing normal game activity they do not cause any harm. If a player finds a normal game activity fun and would like to keep doing it, that’s fine with us.

When your event is beaten and it reactivates, the time it takes to reactivate should not trigger a diminishing return. Big example here is the Harpy attack near the Ascalon Catacombs. If you’re waiting for a group, and you complete that event as often as it reactivates, the DR kicks in. If you don’t want players doing events that quickly, tone down the reactivation times.

Event DR is the easiest safety net to remove, you have complete control over the number of events and how quickIy they come back (it doesn’t like those two words together). Tweak it so that people are unable to stand in one area and repeatedly complete an event faster than you desire.

JonPeters.5630:

Initially we have to rely on smaller data sets, instinct and some guesswork to find the correct cutoff. What this means is that some players are going to bump into the edges of these systems for a while as we get them sorted out.

The only problem with bumping into DR edges in this game is that its more like jumping face-down on a knife. Your immediately treated as if you’re botting/exploiting. This is what players are mostly angry about…but then they just get mad at the system and expect an immediate removal with no questions asked.

DRs should increase gradually to the point where they become harsh if you continue to do what shouldn’t be done instead of immediately giving players the finger without any prior notice or inclination whatsoever.

I do appreciate Anet’s time taken for communication with their community. Its very hard to work and troll the forums at the same time looking for an opening to spit out a few words and hope those words don’t say too much or fall on deaf ears.

Why people cry over the bug? This has gone on 2 weeks without even a mention that it was a bug. I think the reason for that was the backlash was more than they expected.
If not then why not just say, Its bugged, we’re working on it thank you for your patience. I doubt it was ever a bug. I think it was intentional, and they disliked the bad press. and/or lost revenue at the cash shop.

That is all hindsight. Now we have an answer. Are you are asking why people are continuing to "cry’ as you put it.? My answer is this. DR has no place in an MMO. It’s too problematic and does nothing to Bots. There’s a million ways it can mess up = innocent players get punished.

Plus I don’t want to have to monitor their failure of a system. I also don’t want to have to worry about “playing right” That is too much work. You say they are crying, I say they are kitten off and other than full rollback of DR will be unacceptable.

Without rewards = Its all just grind. N’est pas?

We are talking multiple week wait for a fix. At least 2 maybe a lot more. Since its Anets mistake. (IE-you guys royally screwd up) How about offering something to ease the situation. Here’s some suggestions.

1) Roll back the DR patch while we wait.

2) Roll back the karma part of the patch.

3) Give everyone an item (one per account) that upon use gives say 100k Karma.

4) 100 free karma & exp boosters.

5) some gems

6) 2 tiers of free inventory space.

Before anyone scoffs at the idea. Its not very much to ask consideing the time frame involved. I canm earn a lot of rewards in 2 weeks to a month (or perhaps more). It would show some good will on your part.

Thoughts?

Cerise.9045:

Silencer

Are you saying the people who were getting 100k+ karma in “an hour and a half” were somehow exploiting?

Of course they weren’t, they were doing the same things that people have been doing since BWE1 and every stress test. There is no exploiting here at all, arenanet even acknowledged their work by congratulating them on their legendary.

Nobody got rolled back, nobody was banned.
It’s called playing the game.

Wait a minute. 100k karma an hour? How is that even possible? I don’t see how its possible to do that without hacking the game.

Cerise.9045:

If I do more than 1 event per 15 minutes I get my rewards cut out.

Only solution to this that I can think of is sitting in a camp all day doing the same event over and over and over and over and over until I am done working on my legendary.

Does that sound fun to anyone?

Very! Although, I wouldn’t even dream about doing a Legendary weapon. I was exausted from just doing my exotic armor, and I did 5/6 pices before DR started. I just can’t be bothered with a legendary. Now I am on an alt and leveling through, Its frustrating being hit with DR while I am doing hearts and opening the map, but I’m not farming karma so it feels a lot less painful.

Hopefully by the time I get to the point you are at this will be resolved.

Terrant.2903:

For some reason I can’t use the quote buttons at the moment, so we’ll do this the onld fashioned way.

I think so many people responded harshly (I know I did) is while Jon said a lot of the right things. He stopped short of saying that legit people playing will never hit DR again.

really? Allow me to quote a couple lines:

“We do have these thresholds in place, but it’s not our intention that normal players should ever run into them.”

“Farmers are a part every online economy and when they are doing normal game activity they do not cause any harm. "

“I also hope it gives some insight into our philosophy about botters (BAD) and exploiters (BAD) vs. farmers (GOOD). "

Seems clear to me that they have no intention of harmind people that are not using damaging exploits, bots, or glitches.

I don’t want to hit DR at all. Do I have to worry about DR and constantly watch my rewards? That is a hassle I don’t want to have. That is work and a job. This is a game. I want to play for enjoyment, not work.

I doubt anyone wants to hit DR.

I will agree with you none of us want to be all like “OK, I’ve killed three grubs, now I need to go kill something else or I hit DR” or whatever.

We’ll have to see what they implement and how it works. I can’t imagine they want to punish players that decide to run around Orr farming karma in events for an hour or two.

I honestly don’t know how a DR system is ever going to distinguish bots from people. My assumptions here is they assume a bot moves more efficiently, focuses on certain patterns of movement and combat to make the most of things. But it’s so easy for a player to emulate those patterns just by farming naturally…On the other hand, a bot is a client-side batch script that can’t be read or detected easily by GW2. Not sure what the CAN do to fix it. Just hope they keep DR from being a problem for anyone else, and soon.

Terrant,

I do think we are on the same page. I don’t disagree with you on most of what you said. Still, DR as a concept is flawed. The goal should be it total and utter removal. The whole thing is problematic because, for one, the game is buggy. Secondly, its going to be a nightmare distinguishing bots from players through the DR system.

There are way more effective ways of dealing with bots and exploits than this one size fits all punishment system that is bound to affect people it wasn’t intended to. Bots and exploiters need to be identified and removed.

DR is not a fix for this. It has little effect on them. Even if it did, they’d find a work around. It’s their job.

SirMoogie.9263:

Shimond.2478:

Karma should be removed from the DR equation. Whatever items you can purchase with karma that are left which are not account bound should be made so, first.

I do not see how Karma is impacting the economy, so the reasoning behind Karma DR makes no sense (or XP for that matter).

Karma does not add to the economy, but it can take away. If something can be gained through karma that would otherwise be purchased in the public economy its effects will be felt in the economy. It may not be as direct of an effect, but to claim no effect is false.

Your argument is then to remove Karma entirely? If that happened, people would start farming mats to make exotics or farming gold to buy them. Oh wait, they can buy gear from the priory/order/vigil. That now has to go. Oh wait the taders sell gear too Where does it end?

vjek.4270:

Derpinator.2894:

I was surprised at the strong response, as I know these people pretty well, and most of them are moderate in their views and opinions. Unfortunately, the justification for them is: It’s not in any other MMO they play.
I had nothing to say in response. It’s true.

They are right to feel that way. I’m a pretty moderate person myself, but some issues you don’t budge on. DR doesn’t exist in any other game because it’s a horrible concept. It’s a big middle finger to your fans and player base.

What were they thinking?

What I am getting is that they are going to somehow salvage DR so it usually won’t hit us. What I am afraid of is that, this might turn into a war of symantics. Their definition of normal play may differ greatly than what ours is. Then it’ll be come about “us not playing right.” (oh God, the fanboys would love that!)

1) I don’t want to have to “play right” I just want to play.

2) I don’t want to monitor your broken system even if you tweek it.

If there is a 20% chance at a rare drop, it needs to be 20% each time. If an event give 350 Karma/1 silver/ 700 XP= it does so every time without fail.

Understand?

lunatuna.6823:

Is trying to complete a zone (hearts, POIs, skill points, etc.) considered normal game play? Cause I’ve hit DR several times just trying to do that while working on my 100% map completion. There are several zones that have a large concentration of mobs of a single type (centaurs, flame legion, branded or undead). It’s disheartening to have to choose between finishing a zone now or waiting a few days to finish it when you can get normal loot too.

Valid point! One i brought up. In the course of playing regularly, I never ever want to see it again. I don’t want to have to monitor it. It seems by “raising the threashold” as they put it, I might still unitentionally get hit by it. Which means, I have to monitor for it.

If this is the case then this is not a valid fix. “expoiting” for me means finding a loophole like autofiring a weapon and doing it 24 hours in an event. Example if I want to legitimately do an event for 20 hours = I should get full rewards for full participation.

I think DR is beyond repair, The goal needs to be removal, not fixing it because its so fundamentally flawed.

I think so many people responded harshly (I know I did) is while Jon said a lot of the right things. He stopped short of saying that legit people playing will never hit DR again.

This to me and many others is the only acceptable fix. I think some of the terms used leave room for ambiguity. example “Exploiters”. Is me repeating an event exploiting? I know its not, do they? If I want to remain in a high level area with a high level character, is that exploiting?

I don’t want to hit DR at all. Do I have to worry about DR and constantly watch my rewards? That is a hassle I don’t want to have. That is work and a job. This is a game. I want to play for enjoyment, not work.

Sharpe.1485:

SHM.7628:

Forget what I posted earlier, anything less than Diminishing rewards haveing ZERO effect on me in the course of normal game play will be totally unacceptable to me. I don’t care how it affects bots.

I don’t care how it affects exploiters either. But lets make one thing totally clear, If I chose to repeat an event (actually do the event) I should see zero effect from DR. That is not exploiting. That is called playing the game.

The line has been drawn in the sand. DR is unacceptable. If I ever decide to play agian, I better not ever see it. (I uninstalled the game) You’d be fortunate if I ever returned.

lol Well now that you drew the line…. why didn’t you say it sooner?

Please don’t leave the game, we are so fortunate to have you around… we (the entire GW2 playerbase, and Anet) would be really upset if you left! /facepalm

I already left, and lots of others have too. Why do you think 2 weeks later we finally got a reply on this? Because They screwed up and didn’t expect the backlash it caused. It went over like a lead balloon. Probably hurt the cash shop too.

I know you were being sarcastic, and that’s fine. Still they should know where the players stand. ( I really think they do now) Besides, You know you’d miss me if I left. why not just admit it? :P

Forget what I posted earlier, anything less than Diminishing rewards haveing ZERO effect on me in the course of normal game play will be totally unacceptable. I don’t care how it affects bots. I am not a bot.

I don’t care how it affects exploiters either. But lets make one thing totally clear, If I chose to repeat an event (actually do the event) I should see zero effect from DR. That is not exploiting. Same goes for farming up materials. That also is not exploiting that is called playing the game.

The line has been drawn in the sand. DR is unacceptable. If I ever decide to play agian, I better not ever see it. (I uninstalled the game) You’d be fortunate if I ever returned.

Frankly an apology for fudging up like you guys did wouldn’t hurt either!

ChairGraveyard.2967:

SHM.7628:

Stratzvyda.3921:

I don’t think the DR system has anything to do with bots. I don’t believe arenanet could possibly be that stupid. The DR too obviously sky rockets the demand for the gold seller’s product due to legendaries etc. seeming impossible to get because of it for that to be the main intention.

Rather the opposite. I think they do get it. They are the biggest goldsellers. They also sell Karma (karma boosters). What I think they may have overlooked is that disatisfied players don’t spend in cash shops to supplement the experience in a game that they no longer enjoy.

This exactly. It hardly matters that you’re trying to protect the economy if your protection measures are actively driving players away from the game. If that’s the case you have failed miserably and your system is junk and should be scrapped immediately, as is true of the DR in the game right now.

And yeah I’m not too pleased that we won’t be seeing fixes for this for weeks, and that those fixes are only going to be minor tweaks. Minor tweaks aren’t what are required for this system. It should simply be gutted out of the game and removed entirely. It’s utter garbage and has no place in an RPG.

Hi Chair,

I’m the last one to defend anet. I’ve found Dr to be horrendous. I feel not voicing a position on it to be horrendous as well. However, IF they do what Jon said in the post, then DR won’t affect normal playing players and farmers at all once the fix is made. IF (that’s a big if) they do what was actually said here. = I’d be satisfied.

Still, I’ll believe it when I see it. Their credibility is shot with me as it is