Guild Wars 2

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAraWlsnpRtlpxINcrNipBh6xcmlSyA0gSWixB-TVyHAB/oMYOlg0qPgIlY4q+zAnCglUaY2+DA8EAIFgYDrA-w – My recommended hybrid mtd spec for the weapons you were suggested.

Mattmatt.4962:

I’ll just add this:
If ele is that badly balanced, is because of this crappy way of design: water = heal, earth = defense, fire = sustained damage, air = burst.
If you dont understand why, i’ll post again, i’m just so kittening tired (3am for me) to explain this and stay gentle ^^’

I don’t understand your comment… Please post when your not so tired XD ( not that im not guilty of that XP )

nearlight.3064:

Sadrien.3470:

nearlight.3064:

For the double ranged shatter, I have a similar set up in mind, but I’ll probably take confounding suggestions over vuln on shatter, and then improved alacrity and quickness on shatter in chrono, but it’d be pretty similar.

I’d probably run ogre runes over pack runes though, just because the swiftness duartion would be pretty wasted.

Im running the pack runes for fury to keep my crit chance at 100% when combined with danger time. Mabye ill switch to scholar though if my crit chance remains high enough ( I like that better than ogre for a shatter build, but personal preference I guess)

Ah that makes sense! I forgot about danger time. Anyway it looks good! I’m just interested in seeing whether high slow uptime or high quickness/alacrity uptime would be better for shatter, but both look pretty devestating to play with.

Yeah, ele has toppled from its perch ontop of all other classes, can it be mesmer that rises to claim it :O

nearlight.3064:

For the double ranged shatter, I have a similar set up in mind, but I’ll probably take confounding suggestions over vuln on shatter, and then improved alacrity and quickness on shatter in chrono, but it’d be pretty similar.

I’d probably run ogre runes over pack runes though, just because the swiftness duartion would be pretty wasted.

Im running the pack runes for fury to keep my crit chance at 100% when combined with danger time. Mabye ill switch to scholar though if my crit chance remains high enough – 100% :P ( I like that better than ogre for a shatter build, but personal preference I guess – i want to put my fire+air sigils on gs to good use of a lot of critical hit double procs).

DarkSyze.8627:

Grimreaper.5370:

I feel like they’re going about redesigning the class all wrong! I think its fine if they take away boons or spells upon dodging, but dear god don’t just replace those traits with other passives that make the Elementalist passively soak up damage! Anet you talk about trying to become an Esport yet you throw us traits that a toddler could take full advantage of. You can’t build a class around passives and expect to become an Esport, there needs to be a challenge behind playing every class! Players should feel like they EARNED that kill because they outplayed their opponent! As of now almost none of your classes provide much skill to play. Its all about rock paper shotgun.

Design classes that provide great risk for huge rewards, design classes that are hard to master, design classes that have huge learning curves and high skill caps, design classes that take years to master. THIS IS HOW YOU ESPORT!

Agreed

savacli.8172:

Aquatic Benevolence makes more sense as a minor.

Adept – Unique regen-esque buff
Master – Heal on water attune
GrandMaster – Increase damaged per boon? Another healing minor fits in with the rest.

Bountiful Power would make more sense in Arcana where boon usage is promoted. With the new water Spec, “Water Ele’s” will have built in healing so the new minor would have natural synergy. The major traits still offer DPS orientated options. So if a player is taking water for damage the traits are still there. Personally, I was originally surprise when I started playing Ele that water wasn’t all based around healing or that Earth was all about defense. Each trait line has its theme, and the new Specs just helped to consolidate them.

his complaint is not that. It is that the traits are completely selfless and offer no sustain to the elementalist himself and are crippling auramancers and other ele specs that could be extremely fun to play if balanced properly.

BlackBeard.2873:

You are right, and I appreciate the respect, I just get so salty every time I think about what they are doing with the class. I know this isn’t going to be seen by anyone on the balance team, I just had to vent.

The good news is, I am enjoying mesmer, and engineer looks like it will be fun. Maybe after they send this class back into the garbage for a year they can put a competent designer on it who can rework it again!

As soon as robert finishes mesmer he will dispose the tyranical karl and fix all of eles problems ( hopefully)

Provost.6210:

So I have come up with the following suggested changes/retools to elementalist staff:

FIRE
Fireball – no change
Lava Font – each 1s it should spew 4 smaller versions of itself which land in a radius 400 and last 1s, dealing half damage
Flame Burst – add Combo Finisher: Blast
Burning Retreat – roll in a target’s direction (as warrior GS3, you can pick the direction) and reduce cooldown to 15 seconds
Meteor Shower – no change

WATER
Water Blast – no change
Ice Spike – Make cast time instantaneous and reduce the animation time to 1/2 second. Make it come in like focus water 5 (Comet) rather than slowly form above the location, and add Combo Finisher: Blast
Geyser – no change
Frozen Ground – Add torment (1 stack per second in the AoE)
Healing Rain – no change

AIR
Chain Lightning – Reduce activation time to 1/4 second and increase projectile speed by 200% for primary target. Make the projectile split to arc (instantaneously) to hit secondary targets, and arc back in the same way.
Lightning Surge – Blind lasts for the full 5 seconds, as opposed to being dispelled after the first attack. Add: 5 stacks of weakness.
Gust – Completely retool this. Make it a teleport (range 900) and have it knock back nearby opponents (range 240, knockback 240). No activation time, no projectiles involved. Can still be dodged, though.
Windborn Speed – no change
Static Field – Add pulses each second the field is active that damage foes within the area of effect and apply weakness. Make this more than just a situationally-applicable choke point holder. Enemies should have to either take the damage, face the 2 second stun, or teleport out. Rename it to “Static Cage”.

EARTH
Stoning – Add a 30% chance to apply bleed (5s), no ICD.
Eruption – no change
Magnetic Aura – Reduce cooldown to 20 seconds
Unsteady Ground – no change
Shockwave – This needs to function as the weaker version of Churning Earth cast by Evasive Arcana. The current skill is extremely easy to avoid and outright glitchy. My favourite, though, is when it rebounds off someone with magnetic aura active. It’s a kittening seismic attack, yet the game considers it a projectile. Really dumb.

Thoughts?

lava font sounds op,
chain lightning would be extremely op with a cast time of 1/4s and I gathered that you wanted to make staff ele balanced in 1v1s ???
static field is perfect as is and does not need buffed in any way.
your lightning surge is completely insane and makes no sense …. that would be a free kill 1v1.
The projectile component makes gust really useful in zergs but for your purposes your version is better. I think there needs to be a way to not teleport in order for this skill to be useful.

Basically 50% of your changes would make ele godmode…. you would see staff eles winning 1v1s against weapons actually designed for 1v1 90% of the time. The only parts I really see value in are the fixes to the projectiles and maybe the condi damage frost field.

Yes but it wont affect your blast heals, base heals, or dodge heals – All of which can be very strong healing for your team. Your suggestion needs a little bit more work before I would agree to it.

No base defensive mechanics ???? 5s invuln, 3 cleanses on a 20s cd with focus offhand) lots of healing abilities ( all weapons have atleast one heal while in water attunement), strong defensive utilities ( armor of earth, arcane shield, and a lot more). Also, I never said you were not going into arcana just that you didn’t have to if the auras changed ( and with earth runes, yes I would use those, you will have perma protection for your entire team, extremely valuable in a power based meta ( a lot stronger than shoutbow) elementalists have roughly 17k hp on the current meta spec in spvp ( not as meager as you say, and numerous condi cleanses, just because your used to traiting for as many condition cleanses as possible ( that is basically what the current dd spec does) doesn’t mean you have no cleanse with that) and as numerous people keep reminding eachother on the mesmer forums condi cleanses are spammed by shoutbow as well as other specs, you don’t necessarily need all those condi cleanses, and don’t tell me your only taking one shoutbow or ele ( most teams run atleast one shoutbow and ele tank at mid alone) the weakness spam from lightning rod could be a potent defensive tool in 1v1s also. In the end Im finding that more and more people are absolutely dismissing most builds before the changes are even finalized ( let alone us allowed to test them), I wrote a large improvements post because the changes do not look promising, but that does not mean that nothing is going to change. The amount of close mindedness of the elementalist community is like that of lots of meta battle devs who refuse to even consider other specs unless they personally enjoy that spec more. Also self survivability vs condis would be greatly increased by the fact that you can go for diamond skin ( atleast at the start of the fight vs any condi class you are invincible, and even more so after stats are removed from traitlines making things liek a staff sc/d necro unable to even hurt you) with my suggested build and a shoutbow you would be able to likely tank a 3v2 with little effort (again don’t tell me any teams only have one bunker).

So basically your first point is null ( that you have to take traits that give you no self support for gm – minor and gm is kinda sad but that can be fixed if you put a real designer in charge)
Your 2nd point is closer too entirely true but standard dd ele will not be giving any protection at all if they take the on dodgeroll heal either so that point is basically null also ( because you can obtain perma protection and everything in the game is cele so is spamming out AoE crit pulses proccing that trait and the majority of successful builds are CC heavy so the lightning aura would be able to be activated also the majority of the time) and lots of builds survive without being able to escape an air immob ( lots of glassier builds too like thief …)
your 3rd point isn’t even relative to my argument but my suggested trait changes (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Elementalist-Changes-Devs-must-read/first#post5122833 ) remedy that anyways.

I am however not defending the balance team here. They made a horrible mistake in what they have done to the ele traits which is why i’m making that other thread in the first place. I just wanted to point out that you are extremely exagerating the issue.

Laraley.7695:

I wouldn’t actually mind having no CD (in practice 1 sec) on attunements even during a fight, it’s not really different from kits as long as there is ICD on all attunement swap procs.

This would be a horrific idea in terms of balance, it makes it harder to predict when you use the swap traits, removes freshair entirely ( this is currently the only non tank spec that is remotely viable on an ele ), and gives elementalists availability to any of their extremely powerful abilities at any time ( providing they aren’t on cd). It also removes all the flavor of playing an elementalist over other classes like engineer. As a mid – higher tier spvp player I strongly recommend that your idea is not added.

@OP mabye if you added a phrase to elemental attunement like when in combat.. but that would weaken elementalists out of combat mobility and adding a cd weakens freshair specs access to swiftness which is important to a glass light armor build with few escape utlities.

posthumecaver.6473:

for Fresh Air Scepter/Focus, you would not get any better burst then that in this game. Look Phantaram does to people with that build.

The problem is, there is no room for error, one mistake and you are dead, we don’t have enough escape to be able to play that much glass cannon/spec.

Thief/Mesmer kitten hit the fans, stealth/reset comeback again. When we mess up, we die. I guess they should give our burst specs a stealth skill also, elemental camouflage, then I may start thinking about playing pure burst specs.

Otherwise, I can say I am middle tier and when I want to play a burst spec, I will play a thief, at least it gives me a chance to escape alive.

Phantaram does not play a pure burst spec, he plays a zerker build with 06044 which though glassy is not pure burst, and my mesmer can burst a zerker build 100-0 from stealth with almost no warning, same with my thief, in order to make up for the lack of stealth eles need more damage / healing / invuln/ damage reduction. The proposed changes by the devs nerfed freshair build damage by a large amount ( roughly 13% avg damage mods) and phantaram is the only tourney elementalist palyer I know of that actually runs that build, denshee and other great eles run d/d or d/f for these reasons and phantaram runs builds like these over freshair for the same reasons ( atleast part of the time).

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

oops sry I got confused between zephyr’s speed and one with air, my mistake v( I wrote as if oyu were talking about OwA. I know the traits and Im working off the specialization traits incase your out of date and you were discussing my trait… I was in direct reply to your comment about it being to strong. Please actually read what I say in reply to your statements. The devs stated they were going to make aura share affect more abilities ( like signets ) unlesss I am mistaken.

I did read what you said and replied to wat you said. And no, they said they’re thinking about it, hence why I said as of now it’s tied to weapons.

Why do care so much about removing an abismally low damage modifier and replacing it with something utterly useless….. And no you didn’t read it the way it should be read because the 10% crit chance while in air is one of my traits but your associating it with previous traits and an unrelated comment ? Regardless I’m writing based on my changed traits and the devs current specialization traits.

For a minor trait it is strong. I don’t get how it’s abysmally low.
No, I’m saying 10% crit chance in air is bad. It’s worse than what we have now and what they proposed.

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

messiah.1908:

Verock.8234:

Fay.2357:

JesseBensen.4817:

if you want to be “that guy” try running either 2/0/6/0/6 as hybrid shatter mesmer or 0/0/6/2/6 as full condition shatter. Both work amazingly well as a solo roaming build with scepter/torch staff, and require very little skill to play. At the end of the day though, its cheese in its ultimate form. -Priest of Lyssa

Actually, both of those builds are pretty awful. Running shatter builds without DE is a great way to get stomped by anyone competent.

Agreed, you need the extra clones.

In my experience with PvP (not WvW), the problem with condi mesmer is the burst. In a 1v1 fight, you may win. However, this can take upwards of 40-50 seconds. The condis continue to stack on, but there is nothing to close the gap. By the time you have your opponent downed, they’ll have another teammate on you for the 2v1.

The great part about power shatter is the heavy burst and disengage. You can provide that extra damage to down an opponent and move on. You can roam well. You can’t do this with a condi build.

It’s a fun build to play, but you won’t see competitive teams running it because it doesn’t have synergy with other classes (for the reasons mentioned above).

if it takes you 50 sec to down in 1v1 dont engage . like thief hardly engage engi in 1v1 rather going to help in 4v3
the same with condi the aoe pressure is huge if you know how to do it as you can do better aoe dmg than any other condi class or build.
but yes necro give fear to the table, engi gives cc with crates etc.. while mesmer bring some daze and condi pressure

I’m not even that good at thief but I kill the majority of engis within 5s…. and by looking at my bio you can see the tier of pvp I get placed in on occasion ( not normally against the WTS players but I see them enough), it could be just that im better than these engis and at tourny lvls you might have a different experience, I also run a non meta build ( this is a likely factor) but your comment is in accurate to my experience. Are you perhaps referring to the magical crate of “I win that 1v1” or just sayign that winning a 4v3 is more effective?

MSFone.3026:

I don’t understand Sinister gear, could you explain why you are using it over rabid or something else?

Isn’t one of the benefits of running condi the increased survivability? Why go glass condition? Glass defense with max burst offense makes sense, glass defense with over time offense makes less it seems.

our condi weapons already apply tons of power damage ( scepter 3 is blurred frenzy and staff 3 cna hit for over 10k in wvw, duelist can hit over 10k in wvw ) and if you feel like you can survive w/o defensive stats then sinisters is much stronger. I personally reccomend atleast cele armor though for more survivability and crit damage if your going to run a hybrid build even on mesmer or thief.

Yamsandjams.3267:

This assumes that mantra spamming is a wholly good idea though. In PvE, perhaps it will be since the AI is limited in what it can do. However, if you’re fighting other people and decide to spam all your mantra charges, you might not have them readied up when you actually need them if you’re burst doesn’t kill the opponent right away.

It’s a similar argument to gaining might stacks on healing. Sure, it encourages spamming your heal skill in the sense that it will maximize your might gains. But then you put your heal skill on cooldown and might not have it for when you actually need it a little later.

So, whether or not the math concludes that it’s more or less damage, you’ll still need to use your mantras effectively instead of just spamming them out and not accomplishing much when your enemy dodges around and such.

Yes and I mentioned this in my comment too :P

apharma.3741:

I take it you mean 1% total dps increase factoring in that phantasms do about 50% of our damage.

However at 100% crit chance the old and new mantra trait are equal to each other (as percentage modifiers don’t affect phantasms) however with the new trait to get the equivalent of a 3 mantra buff you only need 1 mantra and to spam it like a new guild recruitment message. Also the buff kinda runs out and needs to be reapplied with the new one but mantra of pain can cover it easily.

I was thinking a few things.

20% non stacking ferocity for 5s.
Or
12% non stacking ferocity for 10s.
Or
4% stacking ferocity for 15-20s and upto 5 stacks.

Would you prefer it stay a flat damage buff?

I want it to be mathematically a little better than it is because spamming cds for 5% more damage is not going to be helpful, reserving your mantras should still give you some benefit.

Non stacking 6% damage bonus, duration 10s… there you have a completely balanced trait that might actually compete with DE

Also I believe your doing some math wrong but yes phantasms are not affected and I did not need to factor that in, no it will not be equal, sry I don’t feel like explaining the math that causes it right now but there are videos on youtube that talk about how the damage mods from critchance are limited by the fact that flat damage mods effect both crit damage and flat damage. I apologize if my small explanation is confusing, but this is the reason why when in air attunement the arcane lightning is less effective than taking the 10% flat damage mod while in air attunement ( 50% as effective).

Yes then I wouldn’t have to count down in my head while running away and hiding, would be very helpful for portaling into objectives. Also add a range indicator please so I don’t have to mark it on my map.

Omg we have too many trait choice that actually look viable, what shall we do !!!!

Here are some specs I have made:

Double ranged shatter – http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMDuAKcBeQ~
Im thinking pack runes with zerker ami.

Condi phantasm -http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMFvALcBlg~ using duelist + shatter to get 2 duelists every 16s ( thats a lot of bleed/confusion) + torment full rabid gear, staff sc/p + sw/t would you believe I’d take perplexity here too :P

PvE hybrid mabye :P – http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC-AV8Btg~ sw/p gs verata’s ( sinister )

Chrono Lockdown – http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMBfAa0A-Q~ gs + s/p or staff full zerker . for staff use staff traits…

PU portal condis – http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMDtAJ8Bqg~
staff sc/t portal build, full rabid, thinking undead runes, mabye MtD and blinding dissipation over their respective counterparts. This would have very high stealth uptime which is great for portals

PU zerker shatter – pre HoT – http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMB2AKcA9g~ sw/t gs infiltrator runes :P

Ross’s phantarupt kittener -http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMCfAFcBqg~ assassins armor with mesmer runes. S/s + sc/p

Double ranged condi shatter -http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMCXAP0BnQ~
Either cele, rampagers, or rabid gs staff condition shatter spec.

Support shatter – http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMCXAN8BKg~ staff s/f for most support options and melee capabilities to get more heals / cleanse to your allies. Soldiers amulet with lack runes for group fury. This build provides much of what shoutbow provides to its group. Playing with descent to madness, I would intentionally jump off certain spots to get chaos storm from falling. Using MoP, MoR, and heal skill mantra ( forgot name).

Condi rupt – http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC2AP0Bbw~ sc/p staff rabid, perplexity, undead or krait runes

Pre HoT LockDown -
http://intothemists.com/guides/5392-new_interrupt_mesmer
or
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC7AP0AXw~ see into the mists for full breakdown of gear choices and trait variation

All Builds now updated for 6/23/15

I will be posting more into the mists guides for the versions of these builds that become viable and will link them to this thread

Daniel Handler.4816:

@Pyro
I hope I speak for everyone when I tell you Pyro you need to stop using colloquial phrases. Not everyone here is a native English speaker. It also includes cliche’s into the writing. Second, you not explaining yourself or correcting me was to the detriment of the entire conversation. In what body of science do they allow colloquial slang to permeate their writing. Either write to be understood or don’t get surprised when people misunderstand you. Proofread your kitten kitten.

@TyPin
Your ability to make selective inferences, and then criticizes others selective inferences is interesting.

Either way the conversation is at a standstill.

It wouldn’t be if people would have read my post….

Simple balancing concept really. Since mesmers save moa for lich just don’t use lich and the mesmer doesn’t use moa ( .. because these 2 elites have equal cds this is completely guranteed balanced {and there is no reason to change it.*})

Hey its getting buffs outside of feline grace nerf so its not like this is the end of the world lol, It just might be subject to the power creep problem.

Phantom Master.9582:

MatthiasL.5346:

It’s fine because it will proc with fs/ls , sb#3, pw…( that’s what they said in stream). If you think about it, it’s more like a buff.

Its not a buff, if you do the math, we still don’t get the same amount of endurance back.

2seconds of vigor (with the +20% vigor buff) = ~ 15 extra endurance(Same from current)

But we only get a proc with a cooldown of 3 seconds, since this depends on if the opponent throws out a dodge worthy skill, lets make it ~3.5seconds.

How many times do you have to roll within the first 3.5seconds? If its an* aggresive necro or warrior that answer should be around 3. Which means we get 45 endurance back, but with our ’’buff’’ we get… 15… and wont get another 15 for more than 3seconds.

Your math is still wrong because current s/d thief has a 6s downtime on vigor every 21s meaning we are losing 15 per dodge ( lets assume your only dodging 8 times in 21s ) and 120 endurance ( 4 dodges ) for 6s of vigor ( less than one dodge and 20% faster endurance regen = only roughly 2 dodges every 21s) = bad tradeoff especially if vigor does not stack with the 40% faster endurance regen food ( fortunately I believe it does but I haven’t tested it and if it does they might nerf it :C ). So this is a trade off of roughly 4 dodge roles for 2 dodge rolls. Meaning this is a net loss even if you obtain perma vigor, therefore is a direct nerf. Anet should consider wether or not this is a good nerf or if a simple change in mechanics is what they really wanted.

Stacking ferocity bonus of 4 percent is equivalent to a 1% avg damage bonus for each mantra used assuming your crit chance is 50%. When compared to the old trait where you could gain 12% damage mods ( multiplicative so its even higher ) where as now even if the stacking bonus works above 5 ( which I think might be chosen to be the cap ) it is still lower avg damage ( 5% + ). This is not necessarily bad considering mesmers have had numerous buffs and you are getting your extra charge out of this but It would be nice for a mantra oriented build to be more viable.

Edit: I am making some assumptions due to the wording of the trait and that it does not affect phantasm, as I have been told the current trait doesn’t not.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Between access to the aura sharing GM, the aura when crit water trait, 2 strong auras from dd and the protection on aura (earth) you can keep juggling protection all you want, which shoutbow does not have for the entire team and still keep evasive arcana or you can go into another line for a more offensive option….

Hm, yeah 3 sec non selfish protection on 25 sec cd (Shocking Aura) and 40 sec cd (Frost Aura) is something that will make dd ele more desirable than shoutbow.

Again was taking about their proposed buff

Halcyon.7352:

robertul.3679:

Ehm. No. Chain damage was like this since I can even remember.

Do you recall all those warrior heroes going “my hundred blades hits for 60k”? I do.

Hundred blades does not behave the same though, because it’s not chainable – it has a cooldown. It simply hits 8x over the course of the cast. It stops tallying afterwards.

Flame Jet, Spatial Surge, and Arc Lightning’s damage counters do not reset after the cast time anymore – presumably because they have no cooldown and are chainable. They used to prior to the September 9th patch, which is what we’re discussing.

This change has at least been around for 2 years… probably since launch.

Ranger runes no longer work with clones or minipet, so I recommend you get scholar runes.

The poison field on crit sigils can really annoy people who heal via empower before bombs. Take crippling dissipation. Power block is great when used correctly, ( interrupt banner/empower etc…) I personally would take Ci over the Dom tree though but after the trait changes you can take all 3

Simple balancing concept really. Since mesmers save moa for lich just don’t use lich and the mesmer doesn’t use moa (the majority of the time and one 180s elite for 1 180s elite is automatically fair) , and if they do then you have a guaranteed lich form( and then they can attempt to counter this via blinds / reflects) and a chance to counter the moa…( yes you can counter moa through evades invulns blinds stealthing the moa, etc…) , therefore because the cds are equal the skills are completely balanced.

Dadnir.5038:

Fire magic
Every suggestion you did here feel like a nerf. How could this buff “burst ele”? The main issue is that blind disapear as soon as your enemy try to hit you, thus you can say that destructive ashes become useless 90% of the time. Pyromancer’s puissance is a strong trait in it’s current state (even for burst ele) and… you just nerf it out of the blue. Why?
Your idea for sunspot might be a good idea, thought. But, personnally, that’s all i’d take out of this traitline.

Air magic
Ferocious wind : seem legit.
Zephyr’s precision : too strong for a minor. It would just be better if they made one with air the minor and switch it with your Zephyr’s precision.

OwA is stronger than zephyr’s percision. Referencing phantarams use of OwA over btth when btth is stronger than zephyr’s percision and the OwA trait has not had its duration doubled yet.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

oops sry I got confused between zephyr’s speed and one with air, my mistake v( I wrote as if oyu were talking about OwA. I know the traits and Im working off the specialization traits incase your out of date and you were discussing my trait… I was in direct reply to your comment about it being to strong. Please actually read what I say in reply to your statements. The devs stated they were going to make aura share affect more abilities ( like signets ) unlesss I am mistaken.

I did read what you said and replied to wat you said. And no, they said they’re thinking about it, hence why I said as of now it’s tied to weapons.

Why do care so much about removing an abismally low damage modifier and replacing it with something utterly useless….. And no you didn’t read it the way it should be read because the 10% crit chance while in air is one of my traits but your associating it with previous traits and an unrelated comment ? Regardless I’m writing based on my changed traits and the devs current specialization traits.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sadrien.3470:

Well torch is subparagraph on CI ( focus or staff are better ) and with all the rangers in blob fights you’ll never get tired of using feedback and trying to read your screen of white numbers >:D

The trouble is you’re reflecting those backliners, and those guys withdraw the moment they lose HP’s and rarely ever see the downed state.

With those weapons you could just go standard 4, 4, 0, 0, 6 shatter with zerk, take torch CD and long range manips. Focus your attention on bursting down anyone out on the wings, or anyone who over extends. You can also dump a quick bomb after an engage when the enemy is low to try and proc downs.

Use your stealth and long range blink to get back out to safety.

You obviously don’t play in a skillgroup ross. The first thign you have to take out is an enemy zergs backlien otherwise the cleanse + heal and counter pressure will prevent you from killing their frontline, but the frontline is virtually useless on its own in may cases ( not enough dps to down anyone) so you use CCs to catch any backliners that become in range, the only other option is to use venom wells which we refuse to run ( because pulsing stun + immobilize so it can’t be cleansed inside of wells is brokenly strong if used properly). Even if they do manage to escape that means they have been taken out of the fight and aren’t bombing our frontline who are now having a hay-day mashing the other enemies. I run with a very strong skill group fighting in 10v20-60s and winning consistently ( and im not talking about eotm or fighting pugs) . In smaller group fights any backliner that breaks position will be oneshot and stomped by our thie(f/ves).

I must mention that portal is always nice as is vale but with CI I recommend you take / massinvis and no vale and keep portal/reflect bubble.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

Zephyr’s speed – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

1. As of now, Aura share only works with weapon auras.
2. Sunspot – the trait is not bad, but the radius is just a joke. Don’t want blind, tyvm.
3. No clue what Precise Blaze should be, didn’t find it in your post.
4. We have a winner! Zephy’r speed is the most useless trait elementalist has (10% movement speed in air), since it’s overwritten by something else all the time. And it’s minor btw. Phantaram actually uses One with air instead of BTTH. There is no trait that gives 10% crit chance in air. BTTH is 20% more damage flat when enemy is under 33% hp, pretty strong if you ask me. So maybe you should actually learn what traits ele has and then think about balance.
5. Glyphs:
8 sec of blind? Isn’t it more like 10 effectivelly? Anyways, 10 second of aoe blind on 60 sec cd is pretty bad especially when thief can do that (with much smaller radius) without any cd’s. Blind isn’t really that useful as cele specs are standing on point and dps might not even got hit, for stomping purposes you have thief. No one is going to waste their cd’s during Sandstorm and you can just move out of it.
LS: Yeah, 25 stacks of invuln if you’re lucky that gets cleansed instantly. Useless in pvp
Glyphs aren’t skills you’re going to use in pvp unless they completely revamp them.

oops sry I got confused between zephyr’s speed and one with air, my mistake v( I wrote as if oyu were talking about OwA. I know the traits and Im working off the specialization traits incase your out of date and you were discussing my trait… I was in direct reply to your comment about it being to strong. Please actually read what I say in reply to your statements. The devs stated they intended to make aura share affect more abilities ( like signets ) unlesss I am mistaken.

If you check I have it written under my changes that they affect all auras you gain.

Parktou.4263:

Warriors only have a couple sources of sustainable defense and that’s Adrenal Health and the Healing signet, which is why so many warriors(the ones not getting blown up immediately) use it as a heal and will continue to do so even after the specializations patch and the xpac comes out.

Mending being a physical skill and possibly getting the cooldown reduced to 16secs is a good start to help it compete with HS but the fact remains that almost every warrior build has either Defense for AH or Discipline for fast hands and warriors sprint. Why not make some of these baseline, warrior probably has the least build diversity of any profession in the game and so far the proposed changes aren’t doing much to change that.

If Fast Hands and Adrenal Health are low enough on the totem pole to be minor traits than why not just make one or both of them baseline for the profession?

The lack of build diversity is self imposed on warrior, shoutbow is not the only viable spec, gs lb is not the only viable spec axe/sh lb is not the only viable spec, hambow is not the only viable spec, axe bow is not the only viable spec. Anyone who thinks warrior has a build diversity problem is creating it in their own mind not in reality, you can run anything + gs with a 40406 traitline and be fine, 20606 or 00626 work great, 60026 or 60206 work really well for axe/sh lb burst builds and 00464 is a meta shoutbow build. Warrior has the best build diversity excluding the fact that you need 3 in the last line….. but eles pretty much needs at least xxx44, mesmer have to take x4xxx, necromancer has to take nothing universally but Condi must go x4xxx and power has to take 6xxxx (almost required 62006), guardians must take either xx6xx
Or xxx66, ranger just works/ doesn’t work…. and thief has to take xxxx6 for pretty much any useful build.

Well torch is subpar on CI ( focus or staff are better ) and with all the rangers in blob fights you’ll never get tired of using feedback and trying to read your screen of white numbers >:D

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Daniel Handler.4816:

MonkeyButtFace.4862:

Funfact!

Necromancer has it’s own hilariously, stupidly awesome counter to Lich.

Immobilize -> Well of Corruption.

Pulsing stability? I call that pulsing FEAR.

Lichs cannot be immobilized, their five skill removes all conditions the have on themselves. And they can target the area of the skill so that they lose all conditions a second time.

Tell that to the poor liches I’ve done it to. The immob is mostly there to keep fear from running them out of the well, not to actually keep them in place.

And this us because the skill 5 can not be fast while feared… unless I am mistaken (dont play necro a lot)

Koeder.2365:

I put these observations regarding blinding befuddlement on another thread, but will reiterate it here (as this thread seems to be more active).

More than half of the mesmer skills that blind (currently) impact multiple targets
Utility skill signet of midnight: blind nearby foes (up to 5 targets)
Torch skill the prestige: disappear in a cloud of smoke blinding nearby foes (up to 5)
Scepter skill illusionary counter / counterspell: shoot out a bolt that blinds foes in a line (up to 5 targets)

So many mesmer blinds impact MULTIPLE targets. Blinding befuddlement as it is now (and unless specifically stated otherwise, I think the default assumption would be that it retains this feature) confuses only a SINGLE target. I am guessing the cooldown triggers after the first target is infected – my experience with this has been that other targets in a group of (up to) 5 are merely blinded and don’t get the stack of confusion.

In my opinion, this multiple target blind, but single target confuse, is a fatal feature of this trait which makes it suboptimal.

Yeah it needs the icd lowered and made per target to have any real use.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Curently, ele is a double-edged blade. It is, indeedly, the most versatile (And by that, people say most op) profession in game (At least until revenant enter in scene).

But, on the other side it is also the hardest class to learn and actually know how to play it. You need to know every set of combos and timing for each skill, and of course, the main gameplay of elementalist : Element rotation.

So, yes, there are multiples reasons to play ele nowadays, you just need to take some more time to learn to play it very well. And for the other question, yes ele have some things that warrior doesn’t have. It indeedly have party support, it also have more ways to clean conditions than warrior, it also have best burst dps (Warrior have heavy damage, but ele wins in terms of burst), eles have massive ammount of AoE damage, a point that warrior lacks ind, and finally, we have the versatility – You can change you way to play to pretty much be anything you want (Except condition applier, seriously, don’t do that with your ele), from pve to pvp and world x world, you can be what you want. Dps, Aoe zerg dealer, Healer, Knocker/cc, Party support, Tanker (Diamond skin ftw).

A solo roaming condition ele can be extremely strong. Though it is absolutely useless in pve. And after the burning changes Condi dagger mainhand could be really strong.

You used to be able to go / into deathshroud in mist form as a necromancer and lifeblast pose to death…. or finish off a greedy thief with your instant toolset skills on sd engi. Now that been nerfed… does mist form need to be useless…. right now it’s just free Condi tick on you.

Between access to the aura sharing GM, the aura when crit water trait, 2 strong auras from dd and the protection on aura (earth) you can keep juggling protection all you want, which shoutbow does not have for the entire team and still keep evasive arcana or you can go into another line for a more offensive option….

savacli.8172:

Other than the odd Sunspot (which others have addressed) the Fire Spec looks very well consolidated and look coherent both mechanically and thematically. Adding more blinds or blind synergy would make less sense for the Fire Spec as it’s supposed to be focused on damage, burning, and conjures.

Though the Air Spec looks very odd in its current preview. In regards to this thread, Air does promote CC so I can see blinding maybe moved into this line. My current grief with Air is Bolt to the Heart not matching its thresholds with similar traits from other professions. If it was deemed too powerful for Adept I’d argue it’s not is the same ballpark as a GM. Let’s move it to Masters?

Even with bolt to the heart being matching to other classes freshair will be much stronger for most builds (imo) and I see it being unused. Staff builds will likely still take lightning rod, but mabye for eotm full damage mods meteor and PvE it could be better but its still only a 10% avg damage mod in pve – equal to the fire master minor – not good) So I like your idea, but that slot is already stuffed full of good traits..

FrownyClown.8402:

I think all the ideas are pretty good. The damage modifier on destructive ashes should be 10%. I would rather have a 66% chance to apply blind on targets I burn and increase the cd to 3s.

Changing the trait for glyphs to add a new affect to them is a great idea. Like lightning storm now pulses aoe blind. Ice storm becomes a field and cleanses conditions. Fire Storm gives you and allies within it 5 stacks of might. Sandstorm now pulses cripple.

Glyph of elemental power will also apply boons on the attunement it is activated in.

Glyph of Elemental Harmony- fire will give 10 stacks of might
water- healing in water will also proc healing ripple
air- gain 3s of quickness
earth- 2 stacks of stability.

Nice ideas… Mabye I shall add a quote of them to my list through the magic of chronomancy, Anways because the blind traits aren’t really fire oriented I will be renaming / moving destructive ashes into air line probably.

Dadnir.5038:

Well, for me the fire magic line is already in a good shape. Like I said, pyromancer’s puissance is already pretty good in it’s current shape. Perhaps it doesn’t suit “burst ele” but it suit “sustain damage ele” which have it’s place in the game.

If you really look at it Fire magic work as an hybrid line focused on conditions and a bit of extra damage along with some self utility. It’s a good line for a lot of selfish build/gameplay. When I say that you nerf Pyromancer’s puissance it’s because it fit in a perspective of gameplay diversity while your version is simply useless (from my point of view).

On an other hand, Air magic is a CC/burst line with a bit of self support. Again, it’s a very selfish trait line but it’s here that lie the core of a “Burst build”. Inscription used along with glyph of lesser elemental have a lot of potential (just to say you got the boon when using the minion skill which have a really low CD. Also work with Pyromancer puissance ). Bolt to the heart will most likely become a 20% damage boost against foe under 50% life along the line of other profession.

Your aeromancer’s training trait is to strong. Anet had a good reason to create ferocity and a 150 ferocity buff is already good for a master trait.

NB.: Complaining about health pool and armor type don’t balance a game. In a lot of way, Elementalist if corectly traited have more survivability than the warrior (which is it’s total opposite). Beside, sometime a large health pool is more of a handicap than a low health pool. I think the Elementalist is pretty well balanced in this regard.

until prove my math wrong I am the correct one in terms of how strong aeromancer’s training would be and you wont prove my math wrong because It is based off of well tested damage modifier principles)

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

snip

Oh, god no. This would be awful. A GM trait for a burst build that revolves around having a fire aura (which is pretty bad anyway) that reduced damage taken? I don’t really follow here.

Sadrien.3470:

master- minor – Sunspot: Blind your target when attuning to fire ( AoE around target)

The problem with this trait is not its tier, but its ridiculous radius, this would solve nothing.

Sadrien.3470:

snip

Yeah, let’s make all the conjure weapon useless, so no one ever picks them up, same as with this trait. No one already uses axe and shield. If they nerf the damage from icebow and LH, do you think people will use it? Nope.

Sadrien.3470:

adept minor – critical blaze – ( 10% higher crit chance to burning foes )

Okay, why? What would be the point of this? Having a 10% higher crit chance only at some time in fire seems pretty bad and it also makes no sense as this trait line should revolve around power and and eventually condition damage.

Sadrien.3470:

adept minor – Zephyr’s percision: gain 10% critical chance while in air attunement

I would rather if they came up with something a bit more useful. Zephy’s speed is beyond useless but what’s up with you and crit chance?

Sadrien.3470:

GM – bolt to the heart – increase damage by 20% to foes below 50% hp ( this is only an average age 6.66…% damage modifier so it is not GM worthy. 20/3 = 6.66…)

They already said they will be modifying the numbers

Sadrien.3470:

GM minor – precise lightning – You have increased critchance vs blinded foes ( 20% )

Seriously, what’s up with you and the crit chances? Again, this would be pretty bad. The vulnerability is way more useful than 20% crit chance at a tiny amount of time since blinds get cleansed instantly.

Sadrien.3470:

Master – Powerful inscriptions – reduce recharge of glyphs by 20%, glyphs have addition effects based on your attunement:

Glyph of storms fire attunement-example- firestorm also grants might to allies in an AoE ( 5s duration 2 stacks per second )

First of all, they would have to make glyphs actually worth using.

Sadrien.3470:

Also if you like my ideas Arena-net please allow me to help you with more design balance I have the summer free and would be happy to help you then ( Note that especially the blind traits in the fire line are not final, moving most of them to air and adjusting traitlines right now).

Well, I doubt that they will even read this, let alone get someon from forums to help with balance. I don’t think any devs stepped a foot in ele forums in the last few months.

The traits aren’t completely for burst builds ( I’m not only reworking those lol, Im reworking everything thats subpar, I prove most of this with math)…. having a fire aura up for your entire team permanently with this would be a huge buff to signet eles which have a trait that gives them fire shield on signet use, if anything my pyromancer’s puissance is brokenly op for a more supportive role ( this was not the trait intended to maximize burst, other traits cover this).

Sunspot – You response to this is completely incoherent, please actually explain your concern.

Precise Blaze – if this is so terrible isn’t the Gm minor horrible also? I mean really they are almost the same thing except this one is weaker.

Precise lightning – your right this is so terrible I will get a better idea but the roughly 2 stacks of vuln ( avg even if your using a long channel like air auto on scepter isn’t even close to what other classes get in the gm minor slot ( 5 – 10% damage modifier > 2%.)

OWA – is much stronger than a 10% critchance while in air… ( phantaram even uses it over bolt to the heart ( 6.66 avg damage mods rather than abismally low due to math) on some occasions before it is getting its duration doubled!)

Powerful Inscriptions – What are you talking about glyphs aren’t useful!!! an 8s blind spam across an entire point or blinding a boss in pve while you burst it isn’t valuable? ( in absence of thief for the pve one) oor lighting storm which causes 25 stacks of vuln ( amazing in solo content or low vuln teams for dungeons/fractals) and the goal of the trait is to make is strong enough in a support role to make glyphs a viable alternative ( having 2-10 stacks of might for 10s might not be very strong but the final goal is too make the glyphs usable so if it needs buffed it needs buffed.)

I already made a sub post on this in a earlier thread but will happily participate here. The amount of confusion needs increased or it needs another way to add confusion that changes your playstyle to be a worthy GM, otherwise this ought to just be a master trait and compete with extra torment damage ( about the same effectiveness).

A lot of the time vs D/P thieves a good ranger will win (talking about Zerker) because of rapid fires into stealthing ( mid hs through blackpowder then use gs leap because of the auto targeting vs stealth players ( l2exploit people) so the thief either doesn’t stealth or loses 50% + hp and A good condi ranger will beat a s/d thief the majority of the time. The problem is ranger does not have the immobilize of a panic strike thief, the survivability of a mediguard, or the AoE / support of many other classes. That said rangers excel in wvw due to large open fields where they can basically free kills builds with few closers from 2k range and have peeling/ stealth from their havoc squad and high terrain to stand on.

MailMail.6534:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Up to you what you do. Sorry you’ve found yourself in an awful predicament. I’m not loaded but if you’re short on gold or something I’ll chip in 20g to help you out.

I can throw in 10g for Witcher as well. This has gotten so embarrassing for him.

I’m still awfully surprised that this debate is going on…

I’m willing to consider that all his bets are simply donations to us for our hard work on trying to make the strengths of other builds known or helping his website and forgive him for calling us forum cultists! ( and I think that is more than he deserves at this point. especially considering that he tried to warp honest suggestions from me in his pm box when responding on the forum) and allow him to pay only Daniel.

Curunen.8729:

If Imbued Diversion was baseline, what would they do for F3 in Master of Fragmentation?

I like the idea, I’m just struggling to think of a substitute in that trait.

Make that entire trait baseline then !!! Mabye reduce the power of something else popular to compensate but it would make for a much more interesting mesmer gameplay, but that might be too many buffs…

Dadnir.5038:

Malchior.5732:

We have the lowest health and armor and no real natural defensive mechanics, so we’re forced into 6 Water/6 Arcana(some builds opting for Focus, which can help stall for a bit, but it doesn’t really sustain for very long).

I can’t agree with that there are other way to be survivable out of water and arcana. Elementalist aren’t forced in these two attunment. It’s just that most of the elementalist are used to depend on them.

natural defensive mechanisms :
damage mitigation :
Focus : earth 4-5, air 4
dagger : fire 3, water 4
staff : fire 4, earth 3
scepter : air 3, earth 3 (and 2)

Utility : arcane shield, mist form, conjure shield 5, signet of air

controle :
focus : air 5, water 4 and 5
dagger : water 3 and 4, air 3 and 5, earth 3 and 4
staff : water 4, air 5, earth 4 and 5

utility : signet of earth, signet of water

sustain :
focus, dagger, staff, scepter : all these weapon have skills that actually heal the user and even it’s teammate in water attunment.
Water field and blast combo, utility that grant regeneration when trait… etc.

condi cleanse :
focus : earth 4
dagger : water 5
scepter : fire 3
staff : water 5

utility : signet of water, cleansing fire, water elemental

This is just a quick look at it and i forgot a lot of them in the process but the elementalist have way enough tools at his hand to disregard the fact that he have a bit less health and armor. Beside he also have strong traits to support this (thus even out of arcana and water).

Well, excuse this post that rush a bit out of the elementalist burst change theme. Still, in my opinion, there is no need for more “blind” in fire attunment (except perhaps sunspot) and yes 10% flat crit chance on the adept minor trait IS to strong of a trait and that’s why I suggest that you switch it wit One with air (not that I am fond of one with air but I think it will be more fitting in this place).

10% crit chance is not too high I explained it in mathematical terms… especially when you consider it is only in one attunement of 4…. ( and I didn’t factor that in because it is not quantifiable)

ResJudicator.7916:

Dadnir.5038:

I can’t agree with that there are other way to be survivable out of water and arcana. Elementalist aren’t forced in these two attunment. It’s just that most of the elementalist are used to depend on them.

natural defensive mechanisms :
damage mitigation :
Focus : earth 4-5, air 4
dagger : fire 3, water 4
staff : fire 4, earth 3
scepter : air 3, earth 3 (and 2)

Utility : arcane shield, mist form, conjure shield 5, signet of air

controle :
focus : air 5, water 4 and 5
dagger : water 3 and 4, air 3 and 5, earth 3 and 4
staff : water 4, air 5, earth 4 and 5

utility : signet of earth, signet of water

sustain :
focus, dagger, staff, scepter : all these weapon have skills that actually heal the user and even it’s teammate in water attunment.
Water field and blast combo, utility that grant regeneration when trait… etc.

condi cleanse :
focus : earth 4
dagger : water 5
scepter : fire 3
staff : water 5

utility : signet of water, cleansing fire, water elemental

This is just a quick look at it and i forgot a lot of them in the process but the elementalist have way enough tools at his hand to disregard the fact that he have a bit less health and armor. Beside he also have strong traits to support this (thus even out of arcana and water).

Well, excuse this post that rush a bit out of the elementalist burst change theme. Still, in my opinion, there is no need for more “blind” in fire attunment (except perhaps sunspot) and yes 10% flat crit chance on the adept minor trait IS to strong of a trait and that’s why I suggest that you switch it wit One with air (not that I am fond of one with air but I think it will be more fitting in this place).

Elementalist has great survivability cooldown skills. The problem for a burst ele is that they have long cooldowns and aren’t very good for disengagement (except lightning flash). The ele’s survivability skills are very good for a tanky spec, because you can heal up during that period of invuln. But for burst specs, this style of survivability doesn’t work as well because healing is less effective w/ low toughness. The top burst specs generally have more access to skills that let them disengage from the fight.

For example, thief has initiative-based stealth + port, both of which are great for disengaging. And mesmer has blink (comparable to LF for disengage but on a lower CD), and decoy, which is also great for disengaging.

I think the best avenue for giving a burst ele disengage potential would be through tweaking “One With Air.” The currently proposed duration buff might be enough to let the burst ele disengage via superspeed, but A.net will still need to figure some way to make the damage comparable to other burst classes (given that the spec is going to lose bolt to the heart and air mastery, while other burst classes are getting buffs to both damage and defense).

Which is included in my thread through all the damage mods, and for PvE where the survivability of one with air is unecessary I added a powerful stat conversion trait ( atleast powerful for its spot). And lightning flash doesn’t even work as a disengage if you used it to combo phoenix… a big reason why burst eles aren’t used in high tier pvp.

Make it actually work with damage modifiers….. then its perfect, beyond that no one cares.