Guild Wars 2

Emtiarbi.3281:

Do you guys think that with the upcoming changes, there might be a viable (maybe descent?) Mesmer support build?

Maybe with the Chronomancer, being support might be viable

The inspiration line could be very strong on a shatter spec, I will add my version of a support shatter build.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

For your PvE Sinister build, confusion and slow are at odds.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC_AW8Bmg~
Minor changes that make this more interrupt + pistol focused with less shatter spam. I wouldn’t worry about p.fury in a hybrid build because rampager can make up a bit more precision if needed and you also want to crit yourself because confusion on sword cleave (8 confusion on BF). F2 for 8 AOE confusion, 8 torment and then resetting your duelists to barrage again. Having mistrust vs trash mobs can mean 10 stack of aoe confusion if you time a single MoD really well. Pistol 5 gives 4 aoe confusion. Focus offhand for slower but aoe illusions condition dmg + another aoe interrupt.
It lacks might stacks though and I think chaos can really help with that.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC_AOkBmg~

“Main hand pistol PS mesmer”
Basically do nothing but pistol 5 which recharges itself and #4. Interrupts give might and #4 shares it every time. MoD for a bonus.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC9AOkBJg~
I really hope interrupt traits work in PvE =/

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMBWAJcBOQ~
My take on a more team support shatter build that still brings a zerker amy. Self heal on shatter. AOE blind, condi removal and 100% vigor uptime on shatters. Swap to power block for weakness/alternative damage source. Personally, I’ve always felt that the shatter mesmer today is too selfish when it comes to defensive support while most of the meta builds can support/peel for each other. Slow from chronomancer can be nice but thinking about how often a mesmer can shatter and how much scarier stuff like stacking burning will get, I think inspiration is going to be the better choice.

Love the main hand pistol mesmer gg

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Sadrien.3470:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

For your PvE Sinister build, confusion and slow are at odds.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC_AW8Bmg~
Minor changes that make this more interrupt + pistol focused with less shatter spam. I wouldn’t worry about p.fury in a hybrid build because rampager can make up a bit more precision if needed and you also want to crit yourself because confusion on sword cleave (8 confusion on BF). F2 for 8 AOE confusion, 8 torment and then resetting your duelists to barrage again. Having mistrust vs trash mobs can mean 10 stack of aoe confusion if you time a single MoD really well. Pistol 5 gives 4 aoe confusion. Focus offhand for slower but aoe illusions condition dmg + another aoe interrupt.
It lacks might stacks though and I think chaos can really help with that.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC_AOkBmg~

“Main hand pistol PS mesmer”
Basically do nothing but pistol 5 which recharges itself and #4. Interrupts give might and #4 shares it every time. MoD for a bonus.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC9AOkBJg~
I really hope interrupt traits work in PvE =/

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMBWAJcBOQ~
My take on a more team support shatter build that still brings a zerker amy. Self heal on shatter. AOE blind, condi removal and 100% vigor uptime on shatters. Swap to power block for weakness/alternative damage source. Personally, I’ve always felt that the shatter mesmer today is too selfish when it comes to defensive support while most of the meta builds can support/peel for each other. Slow from chronomancer can be nice but thinking about how often a mesmer can shatter and how much scarier stuff like stacking burning will get, I think inspiration is going to be the better choice.

Phantasm won’t be getting fury from your party like you will.

For PvE, Condi has been traditionally for open world or solo. Even with the changes to condi stacking making it more “viable” I doubt groups will want a condi mesmer. Reflects will still probably be based off of precision, ferocity and dmg multipliers which condi builds won’t have. So what group fury do you speak of?

EDIT: Forgot to mention another thing. Even in groups, going full rampager +DD vs full sinister +p.Fury:
Rampagers has 321 less condi dmg but 15% higher crit base (5% lower after p.Fury) chance BUT 33% chance of duelists to stack 2 more bleeds on crit. Basically bleeds are ~10% weaker but you get 56% more of them with DD.

I was planning on not using a duelist, but each for his own. Your build would work better when focussing a single target. Reworking the build to be better anyways

Edit, decided to use pistol.

Ragnarox.9601:

Longbow was needed.

Sadly traps not.

We are in a good place – that means we must get 1 good thing and 1 bad thing – that is called balance (for guardians only).

That is what the devs call class balance across the board ( outside of warrior; and anything Robert Gee designs)

Sigmoid.7082:

Sadrien.3470:

Sigmoid.7082:

Actually dark paths cool down is fine as it is it just needs to travel faster so it lands better.

He means dagger 3, dark pact

Oh sorry messed up the letters

No worries, and your suggestion is good.

Sigmoid.7082:

Actually dark paths cool down is fine as it is it just needs to travel faster so it lands better.

He means dagger 3, dark pact

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

They do allow invulnerable players to rain death upon their unsuspecting pursuers with no threat of retaliation.

Yes, but this ‘rain of death’ is limited to a very localized area, depending on the spot. There’s only 2 spots that have anything approaching a use, on either side of the citadel, that are somewhat near the northern towers. However, you can’t actually hit anyone on the tower from that spot, so unless you decide to go and give them a target, they’re not going to be raining death on anything other than empty snow.

Compare that to reviving through walls, which can literally instantly hand possession of an important objective to an enemy team.

Sadrien.3470:

In addition, there is/used to be a treb spot where you can hit your garris inner and outer wall while in the invulnerable zone. I should report those to the bug forums.

I went looking for this recently and couldn’t find it. It took them about a year and a half to fix it since I first brought it directly to the attention of the appropriate folks, but at least they did (I think).

Yeah that last time I actually witnessed this was months ago, glad it’s been fixed. Was hard finding a way to break that treb whenever people used it.

Auldon.1972:

Laraley.7695:

While shoutbow cannot get out of it, ele is a bit more vulnerable to burst than shoutbow due to low base hp poor and armour. You can get spiked up easily. However, if such team decides to focus you, there is a high chance you will be dying no matter what you play.

The thing is ele is losing its support and answer me this: Why would you take a support spec on your team, when it lacks…you know, support?

Actually, I think shoutbows are more susceptible to burst than D/D eles. Shocking aura, protection, LF, stability, Frost Aura. Those all make an ele pretty hard to kill.

A shoutbow, if he’s running 3 shouts, doesn’t have stability, endure pain (invuln), or any form of escape.

The thief/mesmer burst can kill a shoutbow almost instantly if you get procs. And as you hinted at: if you’re getting hit for 25k.. Having 18k hp compared to 22k doesn’t matter.

Also, add in a DPS guard which will a) ring the shoutbow, so he/she can’t escape it, and if it’s a first engagement, should provide stability to allies so the Fear Me from the warrior won’t help.

Also, D/D is an off-support role, not a support role. The shoutbow is the main support, and then D/D provides secondary support, but more damage and mobility.

Ele got dropped in favour of triple zerker comps. Engis are just too important (CC, condis), shoutbow is better support/sustain, and banner is super valuable, so that stayed.

Eles are not out of the meta (arguable) because shoutbow is better, but because the role a D/D ele fulfils is no longer there.

Your planning on hitting for 25k in spvp as a mesmer or thief??? Tis much higher than anything you can reasonably obtain against a celestial warrior…. especially because they can dodge.

BlackBeard.2873:

Sadrien.3470:

Only thing I disagree here on is that the mesmer auto is good. Spatial surge does terrible damage just like most ranged autos. Mesmer sword auto is better but still / weak compared to almost every other melee auto.

Depends on whether or not you cancel-cast it (which gets you like a 50% dps boost). For a ~1400 range attack that isn’t a projectile, it does excellent dps. Certainly, more single-target dps than any ele auto on scepter or staff. If you throw in air/fire, it gets really high.

Sure, it is low in comparison to ranger’s long-range shot, but has those other benefits.

Is cancel casting considered an exploit… that’s a rather large unintended benefit.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

afaik it’s against the rules to bump your post for the sake of bumping it.

Additionally, this is not a bug as it is the same behavior of other #1 skills and a few others, you just notice it far more due to the range. Per a dev post from long ago, and I believe wiki somewhere states the information as well, I think it was stated as ~15% cushion related to tracking so that you don’t miss on something you were just hitting because of a little latency. Phantasm/clone skills and ground-targeted skills have a hard range limit.

Thank you for the information.

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

By your logic I can conclude that finding that way into the enemies home base / in order to troll them by having a dance party in their spawn is not banable ?

Correct, that’s not a bannable exploit. You get absolutely zero benefit out of it other than pure amusement.

Sadrien.3470:

But when they stand in open field place where they are invulnerable is this banable? If so there could be entire blobs of people getting banned

This is…questionable. The only reason it’s not bannable is that those invuln spots only exist directly adjacent to a spawn area, and don’t allow the invulnerable people to actually reach anything important.

They do allow invulnerable players to rain death upon their unsuspecting pursuers with no threat of retaliation. I would put this under a similar Category too reviving through walls. In addition, there is/used to be a treb spot where you can hit your garris inner and outer wall while in the invulnerable zone. I should report those to the bug forums.

Has anyone elsewhere been experiencing problems with contemplation of purity’s tooltip excluding all wording and recharge ?

Fay.2357:

Sadrien.3470:

apharma.3741:

Sadrien.3470:

serenke.4806:

WvW has never been fun, or worth doing. But if you like roaming, it never went “out of favor”. Sure there are massive fights, but you can always roam…

In higher tier servers roaming has “fallen out of favor” because massive blobs of 80 stampeding around the map block out all the solo players and having few opponents makes this very boring for many people. It does not help that most opponents are incompetent and will run to the protection of 5-60 people or call for assistance at a glimpse of you in the distance, but there are lots of fun things to do in WvW, your statement was purely opinion with absolutely no factual base.

@OP For enjoyment in wvw you can, troll zergs and video it, stealth icebow massive blobs, make instant kill montages, make outnumbered commentaries, duel, roam with friends, troll more enemies, find glitches around wvw, cheat your way into objectives, experiment with builds, and make incompetent players QQ.

You may want to change that last part, I’m gonna take it when you say “cheat” your way into objectives you mean sneak in with an enemy, hide and flip the objective. No-one condones cheating in any way

;P ofc we don’t we only use features anet adds to our game. That can’t be cheating wether or not it’s intended. I don’t actually know wether or not using some of the mechanics anet puts into the game is considered cheating I haven’t asked them. Like is using mesmer gs auto from 1420 distance cheating because it wasn’t intended to work that way, or reviving someone through walls, leveling up mid combat using a time ( before it was nerfed), etc… It would make logical sense that we never know what anet intendeds so unless they specifically tell us it’s cheating or it involves hacks it’s not really cheating.

This logic is wrong and can absolutely get you banned for exploiting.

An exploit is defined as an exploitable bug in the game. You’re not using any hacks, you’re not cheating the game client itself, but you’re still committing a bannable offense. Here’s a couple of examples:

Numerous instances of mass bans due to monetary gain from an exploit. When Anet introduced a recipe or miscoded some price so that it gave more than it was supposed to or it cost less than it was supposed to, people exploited that. Those people also got banned.

You used to be able to wall jump into every keep in WvW. You didn’t need a third party program or hacks, you just walked up to a wall and basically mashed space bar. I don’t know if anyone got banned for this (since wvw…), but it’s absolutely a bannable offense of an exploit.

In general, when you’re about to do something, there’s some questions you should ask yourself.

1. Is this a seemingly normal behavior for the game?
2. Am I benefitting in an abnormally large way from this action?
3. Does what I’m doing feel generally wrong, as if I’m breaking the rules of the game in some way?

If you answer yes to any of those questions, then there’s a good chance that you’re using a bannable exploit. Let’s apply that to your examples.

GS auto reaching slightly farther than it should. This is a minor thing that is not out of line with how other similar attacks perform. You’re not benefitting in an abnormally large fashion, and it doesn’t seem generally broken or wrong.

Using a tome to level up and full heal+ knockback. This is abnormal behavior for the game. However, you’re not benefitting in a large way from it (winning a 1v1 maybe?), and it doesn’t feel like a massively wrong or broken thing, just amusingly broken. In this case, I’d refrain from doing it, but I wouldn’t worry so much about getting banned for it.

Reviving someone through a wall or gate. This is an abnormal behavior for the game. Additionally, you’re getting a potentially massive gain from it: portaling into a keep or tower. Lastly, it feels wrong, as if you’re breaking the game. Somebody inside a tower that got killed being revived by someone outside? Nothing is right about that. In this instance, I’d call it an absolutely bannable exploit, to be for at your own risk.

Lucky for me I don’t do the later one, but it’s a fairly common strategy on some servers.

By your logic I can conclude that finding that way into the enemies home base / in order to troll them by having a dance party in their spawn is not banable ? Or is it considered abnormal benefit ? I can’t kill the players so I would put it under amusing, like map breakouts. But when they stand in open field place where they are invulnerable is this banable? If so there could be entire blobs of people getting banned. Also you missed the troll face.

Sebrent.3625:

What’s amusing to me is that when the game was still in beta we had these discussions about whether or not a phantasm build should ever shatter. We’ve sort of come full circle.

And this time I think we have a different answer :P

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

For your PvE Sinister build, confusion and slow are at odds.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC_AW8Bmg~
Minor changes that make this more interrupt + pistol focused with less shatter spam. I wouldn’t worry about p.fury in a hybrid build because rampager can make up a bit more precision if needed and you also want to crit yourself because confusion on sword cleave (8 confusion on BF). F2 for 8 AOE confusion, 8 torment and then resetting your duelists to barrage again. Having mistrust vs trash mobs can mean 10 stack of aoe confusion if you time a single MoD really well. Pistol 5 gives 4 aoe confusion. Focus offhand for slower but aoe illusions condition dmg + another aoe interrupt.
It lacks might stacks though and I think chaos can really help with that.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC_AOkBmg~

“Main hand pistol PS mesmer”
Basically do nothing but pistol 5 which recharges itself and #4. Interrupts give might and #4 shares it every time. MoD for a bonus.
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMC9AOkBJg~
I really hope interrupt traits work in PvE =/

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgMBWAJcBOQ~
My take on a more team support shatter build that still brings a zerker amy. Self heal on shatter. AOE blind, condi removal and 100% vigor uptime on shatters. Swap to power block for weakness/alternative damage source. Personally, I’ve always felt that the shatter mesmer today is too selfish when it comes to defensive support while most of the meta builds can support/peel for each other. Slow from chronomancer can be nice but thinking about how often a mesmer can shatter and how much scarier stuff like stacking burning will get, I think inspiration is going to be the better choice.

Phantasm won’t be getting fury from your party like you will.

RlyOsim.2497:

I understand the class rotations quite well from playing a lot with a friend but I take it from your tone, besides mechanics etc., that you would suggest not learning it?

If you play on a team where they want the strongest builds possible, there are builds that currently look more promising, if you just think it looks fun then it’s completely worth it. I would wait until the new arcana traits are decided to really say wether or not it will be good when the changes go through and even then it can still change easily.

Laraley.7695:

sirrrock.7940:

Snip

Part I
First step would be indeed making Elemental Attunement a baseline. The problem with ele is the fact it has the lowest hp and armour pool AND it depends on healing. You have very little ways of mitigating the potential damage unless you trait for protection on earth, which still worse than for example Blurred frenzy or stealth since protection can be stolen/removed/corrupted. The fact they think you should trait for this and put it as a GM trait makes me feel like they do not understand how difficult it is to play without these traits. Such a squishy class shouldn’t be revolved around healing, but rather avoiding the damage.

There are several ways to fix this, but many of them seem rather crazy such as increasing the hp pool, removing cd from attunements…

What they need to do is simply improve the base defensive mechanisms of ele, while removing/nerfing/reworking traits that improve only ele’s defense, such as Geomancer’s defense, Stone heart…Ele cannot really afford losing more support traits (Evasive Arcana, Healing Ripple, Elemental Attunement…etc.).

The problem is that self healing of celestial ele is a bit too high, but it doesn’t bring as much support as shoutbow. The radius of all heals is rather a joke, it doesn’t have banner and it’s more vulnerable to burst despite of all healing. The issue is that nerfing ele sustain while not touching the support is has is tricky.

Cantrip Mastery just should be a baseline. There is no justification for those skills having such high cooldowns. Armour of earth is on 75 cd cooldown while you get 6 sec of prot and stab (without boon duration) that can be countered by single steal/shatter/corrupt boon. Mistform is again 75 sec cooldown while you cannot use your skills and it lasts 3 seconds. Compare it to Distortion, which can be up to 4 seconds on 47 seconds cd traited AND you can use all your skills. Same goes for lightning flash/Blink. Making it a baseline would mean other builds could pick up some cantrips while not being forced into water and you know…just because it’s dumb for cantrips to have such high cooldowns.

For other builds to be viable, there are things that need to happen:
1. Ele needs to get boon hate, it’s such an important thing for a dps spec to have. I would say this is very likely since they hinted this could happen.
2. It needs to have at least one on demand interrupt. Both comet and gale have quite long cast times and it’s VERY difficult to time the interrupt right seeing as lots skills worth interrupting have lower cast time than the cc skills.
3. Stealth. This would help ele gameplay so much. Obviously it wouldn’t have as much access to stealth as thief, but one or two abilites that would allow you to stealth and disengage would help tons. Fresh air has bascially no way of leaving a fight if fgs is on cd.
4. Rework to scepter. All AA’s on scepter are bad, Dragon’s tooth is still not ground targeted, shatterstone is still not worth casting and rockbarrier still have 1 sec cast time.
5. Actually having good skills on sword (or a different weapon depending if it’s really sword, hopefully not offhand). It’s crucial to have good autoattacks, without that the spec will just become the same fresh air is now. Nice burst but bad sustain damage. Just look at Spatial Surge or thief dagger chain and compare it to Flamestrike, Stone Shards…
6. Teleports. Once ele is out of cooldowns (50, 75 sec), it’s gonna have a bad time in a fight. There should be ways of getting out of AoE kitten that don’t have such high cooldowns. I would say this is likely, sword is really asking for teleports. Also, Arcane shield should be on 60 sec cd.
7. Rework on focus would be nice, too. Fire shield is just a joke and Freezing Gust is not really that useful either.

Not all of these things need to happen, but if ele gets none, it just won’t have any viable dps specs.

Only thing I disagree here on is that the mesmer auto is good. Spatial surge does terrible damage just like most ranged autos. Mesmer sword auto is better but still / weak compared to almost every other melee auto.

Still worth learning even if it’s just to improve your overall gameplay and teach you to counter those the you see.

TymX.8017:

Hi!

I really like your guide, it looks like fun, and something different than my usual d/d cele build. There are a few thing missing on the metabattle page, but you did a great work.
I would like to ask you to make a video tutorial, showing how you use this spec, in tpvp or wvw. You don’t have to own everybody, or show exceptional skill, just show us the basic mechanics and how you use them under pressure. I will definitely sub for you on youtube if you do so

Yeah I too would like a video demonstration of what this build is capable of and the best examples of fights he can find.

Laraley.7695:

sirrrock.7940:

Bolt to the heart could be kept how it is now, then moved to the master slot( Sadrien is right, no one will take it as a gm being compared to the other traits)

Sadrien is not right, they already said they are gonna change the numbers so it’s equal to similar traits of this type. The reason why no one will take this is the simple fact it’s not better than fresh air.

Um you just reiterated something I said already after saying I was wrong about it. ( I have acknowledge that they said they will be changing number, I also said that it still will not be better than fresh air in a previous comment).

Donut.6914:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Ritt.3069:

Phantom Master.9582:

Donut.6914:

snip

Being honest here… you sound like a pretty mean dude. What’s the point of this post?

Just let it go man. Personal merits and skill aside, this guy is obviously a super strong contender and the rest of us bads just don’t compare.

With a name like Donut, you know he is the voice of reason.

if you’re crying on the forums about a slight nerf to a trait that was too strong (while also getting plenty of buffs) then you’re bad, plain and simple

just git gud

Hmm about 30% is a slight nerf ??

Klowde.9876:

I guess I’m among the few that are looking forward to s/d when specs come out. Trickster looks so yummy. Guarded initiation with assassins reward also seems fun. I’m just worried about PvE, as it seems like all classes are getting super buffed. In fact, giving thief access to Mug, panic strike, and executioner in one line makes me excited by itself. Even after reading this, I honestly see no problems with the coming s/d thief, bunch of people overreacting and whining is pretty much what I see.

Some people over reacted , other explained through math that this was a nerf, people stated their belief it was unnecessary, and done.

Erasmus.1624:

Sadrien.3470:

Actually the developers having control over some traits can be a good thing and assist in balance.

They do have control over the traits. All of the traits. They’re what you call major traits now. Minors can easily be shuffled into the majors or removed entirely because they really aren’t anything truly unique or rewarding for anyone.

• Gain passive [effect] when hit below X% HP (or at all).
• Gain X% chance to inflict [condition] on target when you critically hit.

Why not just fold these sorts of things into skills or traits and make them 100% chances? Why not just… make them… things that players actually consciously do? Why would anyone ever promote mechanics that reward players for being hit??? Besides, when you get right down to it, RNG and threshold procs are things over which NOBODY has any control. They’re just in there because the devs thought that more passive screen clutter would surely promote esports and dynamic combat. It’s honestly inexplicable.

You miss interpret what I meant. Developers can change balanced between lines better if they 100% know you are taking x trait by speccing into x line.

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

Laraley.7695:

Sadrien.3470:

The abysmally low is mathematically proven…. and how is 10% crit chance worse than an absolutely useless 10% movement speed increase? Can you pls explain how a buff overridden by any other movement buff in the game is useful ( and you are telling me to learn the traits lel) ? Also you said the fire version of the same critchance bonus is bad and this is too strong, kind of hypocritical.

Okay, where is your math then? I want to see how it was proven abysmally low.
That’s my bad, forgot you wanted it as a major trait. Doesn’t change the fact 10% crit chance in air is not really much useful anyway. And yeah, I actually know the traits unlike you.

Please prove I don’t know the traits… oh wait you can’t. And I can explain via math but you still never answered why you want a horrific trait to be kept over a rather low damage modifier. Edit … Math provided in earlier comment. A 5% damage modifier might be too high for a minor but seeing as it only works in one of 4 attunements I doubt it.

The only thing you said is that BtTH is abysmally low, you never explained why close to 7% damage modifier is bad for a ADEPT trait. It also works in fire, which has the highest burst skills.

And your 10% crit chance would be 5% damage increase only if you spend at least half of the time in air, which realistically will be 3-5% damage modifier. Never said Zephyr’s speed is better (you were the one clamining it’s much better than BtTH, because Phanta uses it), I just said I would prefer something else than crit chance in air.

Your math is wrong here, if 100%of your damage comes from air it’s 5% therefore it is abismally low through the lenses of mathematics.

What? If 100% of your damage came from air, it would be 10% dmg modifier. Seeing as fresh air spends and therefore does damage in other attunements, I estimated reastically it could be around 3-5% of damage increase. Also, you were the one who suggested this trait.

A 10% chance to gain a critical damage bonus ( assuming your crit damage is at 200%) is actually a 5% gain.

And I know I suggested it, you and dadnir both appear to believe it is too strong or a bad choice.

Sigh. Without 10% crit
Average damage = Base damage * ( 1 + Critical Chance * ( Critical Damage – 1 ) )
AD = BD * (1 + 0,50 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1,50 > Average damage output higher 50% higher than base.
With 10% higher crit chance
AD = BD * (1 + 0,60 * (2-1))
AD = BD * 1.,60 > Average damage output 60% higher than base.

60-50 = 10 > 10% damage increase

(Data from 26006 fresh air build)

No, I said I don’t like the trait and would rather if they came up with something else.

Ok I will change this for you. May my suggestion appease your endless posting.

Edit: you have any suggestions for a balanced and theme fitting trait ?

Edit 2: also your comparing the gain from base not from 1.5

I believe your math should be .1/1.5 = 1/15

1 = x
15=100
X = 6.666

If roughly 50% of your damage occurs in air this is a 3.333% damage gain relative to not having this trait.
Therefore it’s basically the same as btth and my comment on OwA being considered better by phantaram is still relevant for the concerns of dadnir.
This is how damage mods are compared btw, they are not comparative to the base but your avg damage w/o that damage modifier.

No, it’s not. 1.5* base damage means it’s 50% more damage on average than base, this would happen without the trait. If you consider the trait, it would be 60% more damage, it’s pretty simple. Base damage itself is not affected by critical chance. If 50% of your damage camre from air, it would be 5% damage increase.

Base damage * 1,5 and Base damage * 1,6 IS comparing the gain from the trait.

One with air is rather a utility trait that lets you kite, nothing to do with damage. If you take Bolt to the heart, you’re pushing for more damage.

But your damage mods affect your current damage not only your base damage ( because damage mods affect crit damage too) therefore when comparing crit chance to a damage modifier you should be comparing your damage w/o that crit chance to your damage with that crit chance.

apharma.3741:

Sadrien.3470:

serenke.4806:

WvW has never been fun, or worth doing. But if you like roaming, it never went “out of favor”. Sure there are massive fights, but you can always roam…

In higher tier servers roaming has “fallen out of favor” because massive blobs of 80 stampeding around the map block out all the solo players and having few opponents makes this very boring for many people. It does not help that most opponents are incompetent and will run to the protection of 5-60 people or call for assistance at a glimpse of you in the distance, but there are lots of fun things to do in WvW, your statement was purely opinion with absolutely no factual base.

@OP For enjoyment in wvw you can, troll zergs and video it, stealth icebow massive blobs, make instant kill montages, make outnumbered commentaries, duel, roam with friends, troll more enemies, find glitches around wvw, cheat your way into objectives, experiment with builds, and make incompetent players QQ.

You may want to change that last part, I’m gonna take it when you say “cheat” your way into objectives you mean sneak in with an enemy, hide and flip the objective. No-one condones cheating in any way

;P ofc we don’t we only use features anet adds to our game. That can’t be cheating wether or not it’s intended. I don’t actually know wether or not using some of the mechanics anet puts into the game is considered cheating I haven’t asked them. Like is using mesmer gs auto from 1420 distance cheating because it wasn’t intended to work that way, or reviving someone through walls, leveling up mid combat using a time ( before it was nerfed), etc… It would make logical sense that we never know what anet intendeds so unless they specifically tell us it’s cheating or it involves hacks it’s not really cheating.

frifox.5283:

Finally got a chance to explore Illusionary Elasticity fix and how it affected condi mesmer performance in PvE.

Ideal encounter (test dummy)

• Power Mes: 6,098 dps
• Condi Mes: 5,071 dps

If you can actively avoid the incoming damage through blocks/dodges/blurred-frenzy and can keep your phantasms up and alive for the whole encounter – power is definitely better. That is when you use 2x Swordsmans + Duelist, if you use 2x Swordsman + Warden then dps is more or less equal for both condition and power builds.

Not-so-ideal encounter (mob actually fights back)

• Power Mes: 3,057 dps (melee weapons + kiting)
• Power Mes: 3,003 dps (ranged)
• Condi Mes: 4,929 dps <—— POST PATCH
• Condi War: 5,535 dps

If the mob hits so hard that you can’t melee it even when using all your active defenses then a condition build is definitely a great option now. With the inherently high toughness (2k+ toughness & Illusionary Defense trait) you can literally facetank and outheal almost all of the incoming damage. Dps-wise, in some cases, we now can match or at least get very close to the condi warrior dps, which many consider the highest condi-based dps’er in pve.

The build used in the condi tests (if too lazy to watch the videos):

• http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQFAWlknpBtVoxTNUrNiuxY6H64AU2zPlMgdB-TxRGABAcBAUS5XuPAgEV/hNdAls/QVKBBA-e

And of course, a very basic dps calculator (only staff calcs for now):

• https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fXjdoYeyQgz0uC7Lm_pTgkAX0Y7UDYunNi4l7rDfcfI/

Bleeding stack counter over 30 seconds pre changes ( significant buff after changes; will be making guide if it turns out to be viable and I’m not busy) Assumes no might or other party buffs or power damage.
Thief -
caltrops (1x) 1812 x 10 = 18120 18120 × 1.2 = 21744
Needle trap (1x) 9513 × 1 = 9513
Krait runes elite (1x) 17.5 × 151 = 2642
Uncatchable (6x) 1208 × 3 = 3624 3624 × 6 = 21744
Death blossom (11x) 9513 × 11 = 104643

W/o death blossom bleeds = 55643
With death blossom bleeds = 160286
Total possible bleeds = 25 × 30 × 151= 113250
Bleed Dps possible = 3775
Theoretical bleed dps with death blossom = 5342.866

Other condis
Krait Torment (1x) 113 × 12s =1356 113 × 2 = 2712
Theoretical poison dps
15 + 9 + 12 + (6 × 12) = 108 × 301 / 30 = 1084
Poison possible (x) 301 × 30 = 9030

Total damage possible = 113250 + 9030 + 2712 = 124992
Total dps possible = 4166.4
Theoretical dps = 5343 + 1084 + 226 = 6653

Reference,
initiative gain =
Traits = ( 27 + 33 + 10 = 70 initiative gain every 100 seconds) = 23.3 initiative gain above base ( in 30s )
4/15 ( 26.666 /100)
3/9 ( 33/100)
1/10 ( 10/100)
Base = .6 / 1 .6 × 30 =
Utilities = ( 6/48 ) = 12/100 = 4 gain
Total initiative gain per 30s = 23 + 4 + 18 = 45

Build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAR8fnsISZa2oG2oB3aGx0YM9NxUDJD4gSWy4A-TVCFABNcQAs+IEAwDA4KlgIp8TgLAAKq/Qz+DppbgMAmbB-w
( this is not the optimal version for bursting ( and does not use confusion, despite the fact you can get 60k confusion damage in 3s against some types of foes, I may share that later.)

serenke.4806:

WvW has never been fun, or worth doing. But if you like roaming, it never went “out of favor”. Sure there are massive fights, but you can always roam…

In higher tier servers roaming has “fallen out of favor” because massive blobs of 80 stampeding around the map block out all the solo players and having few opponents makes this very boring for many people. It does not help that most opponents are incompetent and will run to the protection of 5-60 people or call for assistance at a glimpse of you in the distance, but there are lots of fun things to do in WvW, your statement was purely opinion with absolutely no factual base.

@OP For enjoyment in wvw you can, troll zergs and video it, stealth icebow massive blobs, make instant kill montages, make outnumbered commentaries, duel, roam with friends, troll more enemies, find glitches around wvw, cheat your way into objectives, experiment with builds, and make incompetent players QQ.

apharma.3741:

Hmmm

I just had a thought, would “reset your phantasm cool downs on kill” be too OP? Grandmaster trait? Possibly illusions? Duelling or domination?

I doubt it, the only game mode where you can kill people fast enough to make this really matter is zerg vs zerg and there phantasms are useless. In the event you are in pvp a kill means your 90% likely to win that fight because you now +1 the enemies for 20s

Would anyone else like to post more theory crafted builds here?

Erasmus.1624:

Remove minor traits. Players should have full control over their choices. It also culls unnecessary passive stat and trigger clutter from the field. Traits: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Elementalist-improvement/first#post5129400

Actually the developers having control over some traits can be a good thing and assist in balance.

Erasmus.1624:

You’re just saying obvious things that people already know. The biggest issue is that conjured skills are boring and clunky to use due to the nature of conjured weapons in general. The whole utility category needs an overhaul. As it stands, Frost Bow may as well just be a water attunement off-hand, lightning hammer gets to be an autoattack and fiery greatsword might as well just be Engineer Slick Shoes toolbelt skill except that it also grants invulnerability frames.

Your discussion is in progress because there’s nothing to talk about. You have shield, hammer and axe at the bottom because they’re either never used, or lightning hammer sees use just so the player can press 1 while wielding it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Elementalist-improvement/first#post5129400
Look at the conjured weapon tabs and the trait tabs (master tier) if you want a non-anet solution to “fixing” conjured weapons (i.e. something that isn’t just moving a few numbers up or down).

I’m pretty sure you mean rocket boots because slick shoes knocks people down…

And even then it’s more like a stronger version of warrior gs except missing hundred blades….

Thread closed…. changes renounced, kind of.

Mattmatt.4962:

Rework diamond skin:
Aura grant condi immu (forgot the name x) ) for the duration

Stone earth need a rework too, but i couldnt come up with something good.
My proposed change to Lingering element (reminder: make only the LAST attunement linger but until it get overwritten) would make it too strong in my mind.

Buff rock solid. It was a decent trait till stability got hammer nerfed.
Make it 3stack or a stability pulse for 3-5sec when attuning to earth (kinda OP i think), can’t come up with something balanced here

What about stable auras (placeholder name) gain ones stack of stability when you apply and / aura? Otherwise 3 stacks of stability is too high but 1 is useless.

Anyways this is supposed to be a discussion where other community members decide what is best, my statement is just an quick overview for those who do not know the conjure weapons well. Your link may prove to be helpful in the discussion and I’m sure the community will considered your suggestions. Many of them look beyond just a revamp and more like a new class but the base premises will remain applicable.

Come on do I have to rename this thread goodbye icebow to clickbaite people QQ

Some one post something !!!

BlackBeard.2873:

Let’s follow ANY aura-build to its logical conclusion.

1. You have to build D/X b/c otherwise you only have 1 aura every 40s, and a whole lot of traits for that 1. Because you are dagger, you are going to have build a tanky build b/c you have no high-damage skills that aren’t super-easy to evade.
2. You have to take fire and signets, b/c otherwise you still have too few auras justify making your build based on it. Maybe you only take the 3 good/decent signets (restoration, air, and earth, which is the decent one), leaving you room for lightning flash-the best ele util.
3. You have to take earth to get any access to prot on your auras, otherwise all those fire auras you have are worthless. While you are in this line and taking signets anyway, you are going to take the GM signet trait so that you at least maintain passive healing and move-speed from your signets when you randomly activate them to get that fire aura.
4. You have to go water b/c the minor trait that gives frost aura is your best option. If you want to be supportive at ALL, you take powerful aura. This means you only have room for 1 condi clear from cleansing wave. If you don’t go with water, then you end up with a completely selfish tank build, which we know has no place.
5. You might think about taking air over earth, so you can go tempest defense + lighting rod, but that will leave you with exactly 0 protection and not much burst, so your build wouldn’t really be viable. If you really think about it, any AURA-dedicated build semi-viable in pvp MUST go fire-earth-water.
6. B/c condi clear is so low, you have to take focus, which is fine for a tanky build. You might have some trouble getting kited, but earth traits and signet of air might help.
7. You are forced to take cele or soldiers amulet b/c you need SOME hp (and won’t be getting any from water), and your build HAS to be able to take a beating and keep ticking, so probably cele. Because you will have high burn uptime, you might think about a condi amulet, but unless dire comes along to give you some toughness AND vitality (both of which will be sorely needed), your build will be hard-countered by either burst or condis.

So you have your build now. You probably take blind-spam to go along with all that burning and help your tankiness. And you are pretty tanky. You can handle pressure from 1 person quite well, and win a war of attrition with most classes. However, b/c your defense comes from just tanking and healing, your build just dies in team-fights (much like current signet-aura builds). Your 1 utility to survive focus-fire requires you to be in earth, so its not reliable in group fights.

So the problem here, is you have a tanky bruiser-build that wins through attrition. Does this offer more than d/d? You share a lot of worthless fire-auras with your team, and an occasional shocking and frost aura, which are great. You share some protection to go with those auras, and have 1 condi clear every ~13s in a 240 radius.

D/D offers more team protection (because it WILL take elemental attunement b/c the protection alone is better than EVERYTHING evasive arcana offers. They both offer the same cleanse potential thanks to cleansing water. Even tourney eles like phanta will admit as much), and has more self-protection. D/D offers WAY more group cleanse, and has far better map mobility.

Because both specs fulfill the same role, one is STRICTLY BETTER, and as it is with traits as proposed, D/D tank ele is still better. Now, we could take it a step further and compare to bruiser builds of other classes (esp hambow) and see that D/D is also no longer even in the same ball-park, but we won’t go there.

When you break it down, the BIGGEST problems with an auramancer ele are:
1. There are not enough access to auras from weapon/utility skills to justify 8 traits being centered around them.
2. The aura traits are spread out in ALL 5 lines (2 in fire, 2 air, 1 earth, 2 water, 1 arcana).

I’m prepared to disagree with you on the point of taking fire, an aura build does not have to take signets. A glassier lightning rod + lightning aura sharing build ( which would be rather niche) could be potentially stronger than a tank spec using signets. Regardless signet eles lack cleanses, which is their biggest flaw. No, one build is not always strictly better even though they perform the same role. A d/f signet build like you suggested would be great vs low condition comps compared to dd tank builds.

Conjure weapons have very specific roles and limitations. Recently Arena net announced the nerf to Frost Bow and lightning hammer. This thread is for the discussion of these nerfs and wether or not they should come to be. And, if so, in what ways should these changes be brought about and for what gamemodes.

Frost Bow :

This is an amazing utility, the skill 4 kits harder than meteor shower but is limited to a smaller area and lower target count, it’s channel can not be broken down without canceling the icestorm.

Frostbow potency;

PvE – it lends a hard Cc of extreme length and the highest damage attack in the entire game onto the same weapon. Bosses with large hit boxes can be nearly instantly destroyed by a team of icebow wielding speed runners.

WvW – Frostbow still provides and extremely high damage attack but it is not nearly so easy to land. With special comps and unaware opponents icebow can kill many mindless ktrainers stacked upon a point doing nothing to escape the wrath of the glass elementalists wielding them. Thief Venoms make this significantly easier to land and provide more damage modifiers.

Lightning hammer:

In progress.

Conjure earth shield:

In progress

Flame Axe:

In progress

Discuss the fate of icebow, where the nerfs should be applicable and what changes should be made.
Does lightning hammer need a nerf?
What changes can be made to flameaxe?
Where is conjure earth shield useful?
How can conjure weapons be improved as a skill type?

Cecilia.5179:

I don’t think rtl needs to go back to its original, but rather something that they skipped over when they super nerfed it.
Original RTL: 15 second cooldown and 1500 range despite being labeled as 1200
1st nerf: Increased cooldown to 20 seconds
2nd nerf: Increased cooldown to 40 seconds with cooldown halved if it hit a target and reduced range to 1200.
I think the skill would’ve been far better off with a 20 second cooldown and the 1200 range or even a 25 second cooldown and the 1200 range than the rediculous 40 second cooldown this skill recieved.
On the topic of elites, all of them have small, niche uses, but you will never win a fight with your elite, unless you count running away as winning (Against a zerg, it is).

The quaggan hater is wrong!!! You win by having 4 eles frostbow the zerg from stealth not running away!!! Goodbye to the only tool capable of making small man groups able to destroy mindless ktrains.

Jonandu.2073:

It is needed that we get RTL back to its old fashion (Launch GW2). The current state of it is bad. The hit or miss CD is a pain to deal with. If you miss a target due to lag, the target dodging, or even being 10 ft short the skill becomes useless and 40 sec cd applies… Now enough about RTL everyone knows it’s bad and needs to be reworked again…

Also speaking of bad skills… Elites… ALL of them… GARBAGE!

Here would be a nice Elite Skill for Elementalist.

Arcane Insanity
You become enraged with arcane power for 10 seconds reducing your attunement recharge of all elements by 100% while also reducing the cooldown of your skills by 50%.

I could think of a million elites better than what we have, because all our elites are useless…

Elementalist only need traits fixed, skills, and elites… That’s not so much to get done, but please get it done.

I love both tornado and fire gs even after their perspective nerfs. Tornado, though, is the weakest of our elites as it is ungodly easy to kite and no longer affect meteors!!!!! Fire gs is great for mobility but it’s damage is not comparable to skills like rampage and moa which have similar cooldowns but are much stronger.

What trait changes would the ele community like to make to the water and earth lines. Mine are still in progress so your suggestions will be helpful! I hope to get as many great suggestions as the fire and air discussion contains and to continue to improve it before my final collection of ele recommendations. An arcana section will be following the arcana rework reveal.

Water:

Grandmaster – powerful auras – all auras gained are shared to allies. Reduced cool down on aura skills by 20%

GM minor – Aquatic benevolence – your healing is 15% stronger

Earth:

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_ !!! Don’t Be Afraid To Post Your Suggestions Here !!!

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