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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
i’m a thief main – and i have never seen a post saying thieves should be getting weaker because we counter mesmer (due to the fact that we can constantly teleport after them on S/x or D/P and have the strong steal skill)
Medi Guards are doable for thieves, it’s just a lot of work and usually takes a lot of time
if you outplay them you win, otherwise you dont (unless you are able to burst them down) – same goes for mesmer/thief
In a normal pvp fight a guardian beats a thief of equal skill unless it is something like hammer gs guardian which has less mobility and the thief decides to slow camp Sb to kill them via poison fields ( I should know I have hundreds of matches on thief and guardian, even though they are right down by necromancer in terms of how well I play with them QQ.)
Mesmer vs thief is different. A mesmer of even skill to me is easily destroyed by my thief due to the hard counter mechanic thief provides. All I have to do is not button mash.
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Mediguards and thieves pretty much kill mesmers 80% of the time. Fighting a shouting 1v1 takes ages and should be avoided if possible. Make sure your mindstabbing SR and using knockbacks. If the thief enters melee use blurred frenzy and interrupt any heartbreaker you can. If you must fight a medi guard kite them as much as possible.
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
Agreed… nothing else really needs to be baseline imo.
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My post was deleted by a mod. TL;DR – you really want that gold too bad you don’t have anything to claim it.
The best you can do is complaining about wording in the usage, which basically isn’t even part of the build? But fine, let’s consider usage to be a part of it because you are special.
If you watch closely, the skill itself does link to Blur. The rest is called figurative speech but you probably never heard of it.
The article is refering to Sword 2 as 2nd distortion because it can be used as a panic button just like F4. What’s next, you’ll say “ha! it say stability will help me stomp enemies, I pressed stability and he did not get somped! you did not say I must press F!”?
@Sadrien – MtD is trash, whatever you add or don’t add it’ll be trash. Besides, not having extra 10 million options listed isn’t a mistake.
PS – I have better things to do than listening to unreasonable arguements of the forum cult, if anyone still has any questions PM me, but I’m done here.
I never demanded the money, I never really gave an unreasonable argument. (None of the members of these forums did). You call MtD trash( is by far an overstatement, imo) and if it is it shouldn’t be on meta battle listed under good / working builds should it? I’m now demanding 100gold just for that. But ofc ‘you just keep replying with (paraphrased) ’ ill make you a bet and then when you win it will say you didn’t and come up with some unreasonable reason why and call you a forum cultist.‘to others and that is how you’ll respond to my obvious success ( any trash build posted as good is an error at least worthy of the payment for one mistake.)
(The blur vs distortion is worth the gold imo… ) why you respond to people in this manner is beyond me and it obvious we can’t have a reasonable discussion outside of the occasional single post. And I will quote you here “if you find a mistake in any pvp shatter build…” therefore MtD shatter which is posted in conquest is a qualified build.
Edit: auto correct is stupid.
Oh and just because as soon as I message you the build changed categories doesn’t mean that you can say it doesn’t count just making sure you know because I have several screen shots. I’m willing to be nice here and consider my payment a donation.
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
Also note that you can still be hit by another mesmers shatter well under the affect of blur if the shatter is initiated before blurred frenzy and the clones land after the blur affect is applied. Confirmed as of 2014, maybe they fixed it now but it has not been in any patch notes.
This…doesn’t seem right. This interaction would make zero sense with how the skills work. I’ll test it, stand by.
Edit: Tested it, this is 100% false. I honestly think this never ever was a thing, but I can’t prove that obviously.
It made 0 sense to me either… maybe caused by latency when I tested it but for me I was able to get clones to shatter on me and deal damage. I apologize for this statement since it is obviously incorrect as of now if you tested it. I think it has some correlation to the “long fixed” bug with the torment landing from scepter 2.
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
MtD shatter build should list runes of the krait as a rune variant and sigils if torment as sigil variants. Add a notes on how scepter 2 can be intentionally used in an existing AoE to proc the torment against a foe who is not actively attacking and on the aftercast from the torment application.
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
Also note that you can still be hit by another mesmers shatter well under the affect of blur if the shatter is initiated before blurred frenzy and the clones land after the blur affect is applied. Confirmed as of 2014, maybe they fixed it now but it has not been in any patch notes.
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Agreed! Only imbued diversion ( they are already giving use ipersona) needs to be baseline.
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by taking a build like 56003 you can get 20% damage mods from being in fire and air because of lingering attunements
Lingering elements doesn’t work with ANY traits other than the 1-point minors. Also, it doesn’t work with the fire minor, and the water minor already lingers even without the trait. So “lingering elements” only works with the 1-point minors in air (Zephyr’s Speed, 10% speed in air) and earth (Stone Flesh, +120 toughness in earth, although a UI bug makes it not show up). Since Zephyr’s speed is over-written by ANY speed buff (swiftness, signet of air), that basically does nothing. Thus, “lingering elements” really only works with the 1-point minor in earth.
Really ? I saw a video where they tested it… maybe the video is outdated but I have had numerous good elementalists tell me it works with attunement based damage mods. I will test this for myself tomorrow.
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your build is sub optimal by a long ways because you lack some damage mods and most importantly lightning rod. Lightning rod is extremely power in zerg vs zerg combat especially with earth wall which can hit infinite targets.
by taking a build like 56003 you can get 20% damage mods from being in fire and air because of lingering attunements, or you can just go a more gvg and support spec like cele armor scholar runes zerker trinkets lightning flash, arcane wave, armor of eath with the 06044 trait setup.
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
I tried very hard to make an arcane build that actually works, it may happen after the path with burning stacking and dragons breath + arcane power but until then there are better builds interms of both damage and survivability.
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It’s still a Blind dependent on chance, which makes it less favorable then the current Blinding Ashes anyway :L
Ok then do you have any suggestions on how I can make it not an on chance blidn and still keep it balanced ?
I’m thinking you have a 33% chance to burn foes you hit; blind foes you burn ( 3s ICD )
I think the trait would be balanced if it were just “Blind foes you burn (3s ICD PER TARGET)”
great idea!!!
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Fire magic
Every suggestion you did here feel like a nerf. How could this buff “burst ele”? The main issue is that blind disapear as soon as your enemy try to hit you, thus you can say that destructive ashes become useless 90% of the time. Pyromancer’s puissance is a strong trait in it’s current state (even for burst ele) and… you just nerf it out of the blue. Why?
Your idea for sunspot might be a good idea, thought. But, personnally, that’s all i’d take out of this traitline.Air magic
Ferocious wind : seem legit.
Zephyr’s precision : too strong for a minor. It would just be better if they made one with air the minor and switch it with your Zephyr’s precision.
How is a 10% crit chance bonus too strong when it totals to a 6.666% damage gain in one attunement. Meditated math, used the wrong formula
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
It’s still a Blind dependent on chance, which makes it less favorable then the current Blinding Ashes anyway :L
Ok then do you have any suggestions on how I can make it not an on chance blidn and still keep it balanced ?
I’m thinking you have a 33% chance to burn foes you hit; blind foes you burn ( 3s ICD )
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
(edited by Sadrien.3470)
Well, for me the fire magic line is already in a good shape. Like I said, pyromancer’s puissance is already pretty good in it’s current shape. Perhaps it doesn’t suit “burst ele” but it suit “sustain damage ele” which have it’s place in the game.
If you really look at it Fire magic work as an hybrid line focused on conditions and a bit of extra damage along with some self utility. It’s a good line for a lot of selfish build/gameplay. When I say that you nerf Pyromancer’s puissance it’s because it fit in a perspective of gameplay diversity while your version is simply useless (from my point of view).
On an other hand, Air magic is a CC/burst line with a bit of self support. Again, it’s a very selfish trait line but it’s here that lie the core of a “Burst build”. Inscription used along with glyph of lesser elemental have a lot of potential (just to say you got the boon when using the minion skill which have a really low CD. Also work with Pyromancer puissance ). Bolt to the heart will most likely become a 20% damage boost against foe under 50% life along the line of other profession.
Your aeromancer’s training trait is to strong. Anet had a good reason to create ferocity and a 150 ferocity buff is already good for a master trait.
NB.: Complaining about health pool and armor type don’t balance a game. In a lot of way, Elementalist if corectly traited have more survivability than the warrior (which is it’s total opposite). Beside, sometime a large health pool is more of a handicap than a low health pool. I think the Elementalist is pretty well balanced in this regard.
Elementalist tends to have more survivability than Warrior because we always max out two lines that give us survivability…We never spec into damage lines unless we’re going full glass. Even then, ShoutBow Warriors can be pretty tough to kill anyway, so that’s a moot point.
We have the lowest health and armor and no real natural defensive mechanics, so we’re forced into 6 Water/6 Arcana(some builds opting for Focus, which can help stall for a bit, but it doesn’t really sustain for very long).That being said, I think these changes help BURST Elementalists, but some are just not in-line with their theme, like Blinding Ashes having a chance to blind on Critical hits. How does that fit the Fire Line at all? The only similar trait is Burning Precision, which also doesn’t fit! Fire should be about sustained Damage, either Direct or Condi.
Having a little survivability splashed in(Blinding Ashes) to help out; something that is really lacking in our trait lines. What we really need is a way to add direct damage(currently lacking) and some cleansing/survivability(Make a trait that Cleanses 1 on Signet use or something or give us the ability to get Evades when we use Fire skill other than the Auto-Attacks; we could give the Ele a smoke “aura” while in Fire that lets attacks “phase” through you when you’re casting a Fire skill with X amount of cast time so Meteor Shower is excluded)Right now, even if you’re trying to delve deeper into the Condi side of things, you can properly use Blinding Ashes(even if it’s not that amazing right now), but with a change like that, you’re just hurting all precision-excluding builds and barely helping the Burst builds. Blinds are best when controlled.
I didn’t mean to write on crit there, it was completely accidental.
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No one replies to me at 4 in the morning /cry.
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Just because you buff ele’s base hp or toughness doesn’t mean people will stop playing cele dd. It will just buff cele dd more then any glass build because the perma protection work better with higher hp and the higher healing of cele dd works better with high toughness. All your suggestions do not buff staff they make dd ele broken op.
Glass builds can’t exist without more innate stats or tools to avoid damage entirely. That’s just how it is. Builds like Celestial can be adjusted by going after their Boon generation like they already are with the EA/EA both GM nerf coming up.
That is true. None the less I think that your suggestion is still more potently upgrading other builds than a full glass build which needs more hard mitigation like blind and invulnerable than hp.
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I only run condi mesmers in spvp when I’m bored. WvW I don’t play condi mesmer anymore but I used to just because it is a cushion for inexperienced players.
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Really ??? I thought that one was an obvious jk lol.
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You are wasting some cooldowns. I understand you to some extent because I got that habit back again recently and fixed it now. Some of those fights could of been over a lot quicker. Try thinking more about interrupting heals and elites.
For example in the 1v1 vs the dp thief (first one that was shown) you could of interrupted his heartseeker which would of probably killed him. It ended up taking 15 more seconds so not a big deal, but sometimes it could make the difference between win and loose. When he swapped to sd and you did the duel where you got an immob on him while he was in shadow refuge, you coulda swapped GS and noscoped him. Also against thieves a really good thing to do are short bursts (meaning dodge bursts wich you already to) but also mind stab at your feet and mind wrack. Its gonna do good damage!
Generally AA more, other than that, a big improvement from the one video I saw of you which I believe was your first video.
Good advice. Not that anyone can play perfect or always make the decisions but you can always improve.
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Most mesmer use Zerker + a little knights or soldier in their trinkets. Are you playing WvW or PvE mainly? For pve just use the ascended account bound Zerker trinkets from your ranger (assuming that’s what you run).
Chaos archangel’s lyssa’s armoire is a great resource for all mesmer questions.
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
(…)
If blood was added instead of leeching that’s because blood was used at tournaments or by top streamers and not leeching, as we don’t add things randomly. Leeching works best if you have a geomancy, hydromancy or an already placed AoE to proc it, otherwise it can be dodged or blinded. When you swap to sword that usually happens because you are being focused, very often by a thief in which case melee combat is unavoidable and proccing blood more than once shouldn’t be too hard. Both sigils have pros and cons but neither of them are main recommendations.
I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.
Yes like adding runes that are at least 2 years outdated, sure great suggestions. Or the one where you did not realize that staff is listed on the build and were ranting about how the usage has parts about staff?
I forgot to add the troll face it was obviously a joke message… but you also forgetting about breaking banners while your foes has Stab with moa, and condi build edits. And I did not rant I wrote 2 sentences you are trying to make me sound undignified and stupid because you don’t want to look like your breaking your part of a deal I wouldn’t hold you to anyways.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
(edited by Sadrien.3470)
I think all my suggestions I pmed to witcher deserve 100gold each…. where’s my 1k gold in the mail.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Oh ok… that confused me. I like the lightning glyphs idea!!!
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The reason why burst Elementalist doesn’t work in SPvP is a lack of escapes/mobility to correspond with it’s low HP/Armor.
When you look at the play styles of traditional high burst classes, namely the Thief and Mesmer, both have numerous escape tools to get out of hard situations. This show these classes deal with being focused, they can use stealth and mobility or clone generation. Their survivability isn’t tied directly to having to tank damage but rather avoid damage entirely.
Elementalist on the other hand lacks these escape tools and instead is expected/designed to take these hits and either mitigate them with Boons and recover from them with healing. However, because healing was repeatedly nerfed at release, in order to properly keep up with the amount of damage out there you’re instead forced to spec heavily into Water/Arcane to get enough boon generation and healing to get enough sustain for it to matter.
Realistically we should probably have our HP pool swapped with Mesmer but that would mean having consistent game design and I’m pretty sure the developers are against that because “ooo wow looky here the light armor pool is different than the medium woooo diversificationalism shiny special cases!!!11”
I think your wrong because light armor has a steady progression
Light: ele-mesmer-necromancer
Medium: thief-ranger/engi ( maybe this needs changed ???)
Heavy: guardian-revenant(i think this is below warrior)-warrior
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Other than the odd Sunspot (which others have addressed) the Fire Spec looks very well consolidated and look coherent both mechanically and thematically. Adding more blinds or blind synergy would make less sense for the Fire Spec as it’s supposed to be focused on damage, burning, and conjures.
Though the Air Spec looks very odd in its current preview. In regards to this thread, Air does promote CC so I can see blinding maybe moved into this line. My current grief with Air is Bolt to the Heart not matching its thresholds with similar traits from other professions. If it was deemed too powerful for Adept I’d argue it’s not is the same ballpark as a GM. Let’s move it to Masters?
Love the feedback. I got that fire was a combined ash and fire ( so burning and blind) from the recent changes and built it around that concept. My specs are already changing the themes a little so that fire and air both take blinds along with another thematic option where as water and earth both have defense but in different ways ( damage reduction and healing/cleanse).
Edit: after numerous people requested blinding traits be moved to air I have edited this.
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
The reason why burst Elementalist doesn’t work in SPvP is a lack of escapes/mobility to correspond with it’s low HP/Armor.
Guardians doesn’t have either (escapes/mobility) and they are doing fine. Elementalist have very few damage mitigation skills. We have to rely on cantrips for defense and they all come with high CD.
They also have other ways to compensate built in on top of also having Heavy Armor from the get go. Also their offensive lines are tied in with their defensive stats, such as Valor adding large amount of Toughness while also massively boosting Hammer skills (Glacial Heart) as well as Meditations (Monk’s Focus). Comparatively it’d be like getting Fresh Air and Soothing Disruption in the Earth Line.
This is why Guardian makes a poor comparison compared to a Thief or Mesmer.
agreed, I like to compare classes within those of comparable trait setups so I compare elementalist to a mesmer in terms of balance / trait design.
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I don’t play ele, but i’m considering it as my next toon. From what i’ve seen, I thought scepter focus was a burst single target build?
Yes very high single target damage and some good AoE if you can land dragons tooth and Phoenix.
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Fire magic
Every suggestion you did here feel like a nerf. How could this buff “burst ele”? The main issue is that blind disapear as soon as your enemy try to hit you, thus you can say that destructive ashes become useless 90% of the time. Pyromancer’s puissance is a strong trait in it’s current state (even for burst ele) and… you just nerf it out of the blue. Why?
Your idea for sunspot might be a good idea, thought. But, personnally, that’s all i’d take out of this traitline.Air magic
Ferocious wind : seem legit.
Zephyr’s precision : too strong for a minor. It would just be better if they made one with air the minor and switch it with your Zephyr’s precision.
I like the critique. I disagree on the point of pyromancer puissance as an avid mid tier pvp player if you are camping fire long enough to get any reasonable amount of might you are already dead on a glass spec, my version was intended to be used mostly for things like dd or staff eles to allow them to enter fire attunement faster so that my lines are not only viable in burst specs. If you have suggestions you think will improve the fire line please post them here.
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
Also if you like my ideas Arena-net please allow me to help you with more design balance I have the summer free and would be happy to help you then ( Note that especially the blind traits in the fire line are not final).
Hahahaha…do you really think this is going to get read by anyone at Anet.
You do have some good suggestions and its clear that you have a greater grasp on the true usefulness of some of the lines already. Even as an inexperienced designer, I would have more faith in you than the current designers.
I’m hoping that the game reporter person reads my thread and demands that Karl reads it.
Edit : enough devs read my posts to delete and move them around too lol so obviously at least someone with mod powers is looking at them. Also ty for the compliment ( regardless of whether or not it is a big compliment )
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(edited by Sadrien.3470)
Typin, all the proof I need of lich being able to decimate things in a 1v1 is that it does 3.5k-6k on its autoattacks.
That’s no proof. You are being hypocritical in your criteria if you mean that seriously. Than I say: Proof of not being able to decimate everything in 1v1 is that you can kite the AAs. When you judge the things I say very critically, then do it with your own assumptions too please. At best what you do is a deduction. Necro in DS can do similar damage and it’s projectiles even have homing. So does DS Necro now also decimate everything in 1v1?
Death shroud necro has less hp, the projectile moves slower, the casting time for the projectile is enormous, and has no stability. The two are not comparable.
That being said…DS necro can do similar things to lich. I’ve been 1shot on my ele by a single life blast from a DS necro. The life blast did 5k, air + fire did 4kish, and then chill of death procced for the remaining 4k of my health. The difference is that DS has counters due to the slow windup, no stability, and less health.
I do know all of that. You seemed to have missed my point (probably intentionally…).
Except that isn’t comparable proof. One is objective and mathematical and uses the coefficients of the skill, it requires no video. The other is subjective. You can’t always dodge the AA, but a Lich blast will always inflict damage in a high mathematical range if it hits. If you respond “but it doesn’t always hit”, you need to show me the probabilities of how often it hits. Again requiring a video.
To expand on that idea:
Based on the math of the skill, I can say with absolute certainty that if you get hit ~5 times (absolute maximum, probably closer to 3 times) with the lich autoattack, you will die.
You’ve countered by saying ‘but you can block and dodge and blind all the attacks, so that’s not going to happen’.
I already proved my case, it’s on you to prove your statement.
If a mesmer takes mirror and has sword skills they can easily 1v1 a lich, its not even a problem for me as a 266 lockdown build with no stab strip on shatters. That said this argument is not about 1v1ing a lich its about if moa should cancel lich and still transform your foe. I believe the best solution is to have the necro return to lich after the duration of moa is over but others may chose differently if they believe differently or have different experiences.
That’s easy to say, but significantly harder to do.
I’m assuming that you’re going to be very glassy, so you’ll have around 18.5k hp and 2100 armor. With those stats, every autoattack from the lich will hit you for ~5k damage, conservatively. This means that you get 3.7 hits before you’re dead. Tack on a bit of healing and I’ll give you 5…but then add in fire/air sigils and chill of death brings us back down to 3 at the most.
So, roughly speaking, you can get hit by 3 hits before you’re dead. Explain to me how a 2 second reflection and a 2.5 second evade are going to let you live through an autoattack roughly every second for 20 seconds.
As per usual, if you really feel you can do that, feel free to take a video of it happening. Until then, I’m going to call it nothing but fantasy.
I’m counting LoS into a factor of my survival. And if I get in another 1v1 vs a lich necromancer I will get a recording program and show you it lol. It’s not a very hard fight if you know they are gonna lich. If your caught by surprise the first lich auto can take you to 50% hp and the second can kill you. ( assuming some sigil procs and the necromancer critting) if you plan on standing in front of a lich you need feedback.
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in all seriousness burst builds have taken a much bigger hit other tankers cele specs. Nerfing a entire segment of the class that already was underwhelming is a big mistake. (I am biased towards burst ele and don’t really like dd tank specs in their current state but that would make me biased towards thinking burst specs are stronger than they are would i not ???) the way the traits are it looks like zerker mesmer might become meta but ele still will have no truly competitive zerker option. please remember I design this on a small amount of freetime and the devs spend much more time with a larger team so don’t expect every trait to be perfect yet.
Trait changes: these are mostly focused on bustier or damage focused builds but include overall design changes that are beneficial to all eles.
Fire:
This line did not receive nerfs necessarily but is not going to be able to provide enough survival for a glassy ele and doesn’t add enough to its burst because many of the traits incentivize melee gameplay ( bad on glassy builds) but aren’t even that strong in the first place making it likely to be the least used line by elementalists outside of pve.
My changes: This line will be strong for adding sustained damage and some sustain (moving most blinding traits to air)
Grand Master – Blinding Ashes – you have a 33% chance to burn foes you hit; blind foes you burn ( 3s ICD per target )
Grand Master – Pyromancer’s puissance – Fire auras you apply reduce damage taken ( 15% )
master- minor – Sunspot: Blind your target when attuning to fire ( AoE around target)
adept – Power overwhelming – gain 33% more duration for burning and gain might when you strike a burning foe ( 1 stacks ( 1s icd) 5 seconds base duration)
Adept – conjurer- conjure weapons have additional affects ( not sure about icebow but if they Nerf it damage ( the said the would) making it support viable could be nice- icestorm on frostbow heals ( more on theme with it anyways), lightning hammer applies vulnerable with each attack (2 stacks), you take reduced damage while wielding earth shield, fiery gs ( need better ideas), flame axe does increased damage to burning foes ( 10%)
adept minor – critical blaze – ( 10% higher crit chance to burning foes, might change this)
Air: this line is okay but the modifiers on it aren’t consistent with other traits i will explain on aeromancer’s training)
My Changes: this line becomes a highly critchance and damage based line with emphasis on popping in and out of air attunement to burst and use skill that provide utility and synergizes with blind ( fire will keep the blinding GM but other blind traits will likely be moved to air )
adept- Ferocious winds: Gain ferocity based on your percision ( 7% )
adept minor – Zephyr’s percision: gain 10% critical chance while in air attunement ( awaiting laraley’s obviously amazing suggestion she is bound to post)
Master – aeromancers training – air skills reduced CD by 20% and increases crit damage by 30% ( roughly 425 ferocity ) this is because as the trait is set up now it provides + 10% crit damage which, because it us a multiplier for power, is only a 5% damage bonus on crit and the average crit chance of a Zerker scholar runes build in pvp is 49% this is under a 2.5% average damage bonus and so is absolutely useless; with my changes it would be an average 7.5% damage bonus but can be made higher with the crit chance the air line would incentivize.)
GM – bolt to the heart – increase damage by 20% to foes below 50% hp ( this is only an average age 6.66…% damage modifier so it is not GM worthy. 20/3 = 6.66…)
GM minor – piercing lightning – cause vulnerability ( 3 stacks) to foes you blind ( does this need an icd? )
Master – Powerful inscriptions – reduce recharge of glyphs by 20%, glyphs have addition effects based on your attunement:
Glyph of storms fire attunement-example- firestorm also grants might to allies in an AoE ( 5s duration 2 stacks per second )
Notes:
Currently fixing balance, design, and thematical issues as well as adding an arcana improvements section.
Also if you like my ideas Arena-net please allow me to help you with more design balance I have the summer free and would be happy to help you then ( Note that especially the blind traits in the fire line are not final, moving most of them to air and adjusting traitlines right now).
More ideas, critique, and balancing suggestions are much appreciated!!!! Nothing is final and theme reworking is in progress. Remember my balance is based on mathematics and quantifiable amounts or references to top or players with well respected opinions.
As this thread is full ( my post has reached work cap ) I will be making a separate arcana + water changes thread which will eventually become the final product of my game balance design recommendations for ele.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
(edited by Sadrien.3470)
Fire: – Fire is about sustain dmg. It should focus on high dmg and burns with defensive options to keep the ele in the fight to deliver its sustain.
Minors: Burning precision(Critical hits cause burning (1s, 1s icd) in fire attunement and burning last 33% longer.) , Pyromancers training (20% fire skills CD reduction part only), Burning rage
This reflects the spec main goal, deal more sustain dmg and extensive burn application.
The change to burning precision make it more useful to eles that focus on fire attunement, but working with lingering elements can extend to attunement dancers for a small period. The 1s duration and 1s icd make it viable to keep the burn but not over stack (no more condi duration bonus in trait lines)T1: Flame Barrier (Gain 3s fire aura while attuning to fire, 100% chance), Pyromancers inscriptions (signets give 3sec fire aura, deal 10% more dmg while in fire attunement), Power Overwhelming(Gain 10% condition damage based on your power and improved condition duration)
T2: Burning Fire, One with fire(fire auras you apply last 33% longer and give 1 stack of might every 2secs), Conjurer (conjured weapons have 10 extra charges and increased attribute bonuses),T3: Blinding ashes, Pyromancers puissance(Each skill you use while attuned to fire grants you might. Might have improved effects on you), Persisting flames
This open up different synergies and playstyles.
The change to flame barrier makes it a good option to be used by attunement dancers, while the glyphs can be used as a good source of fire auras for other aura builds. The proposed change to Power overwhelming makes it a good trait for pve (with condi stack changes) and condi builds, and it can replace the condi duration lost.
The change in Pyromancers puissance makes it a good trait by not only giving might per skill (not per spell, so works with conjures) but improving might effects could net you a dps increase equivalent of persisting flames in some scenarios, making it a good option.Air: Air is the burst dmg element. Specialization in air should increase burst dmg and provide ways to deliver that burst. Extra procs for more dmg, bonus dmg and hard CC and mobility are what this speacialization should provide, so that the air ele can get in the fight fast, deliver its burst, and move out of harms way.
Minors: Zephyrs Speed (move 25% faster while attuned to air), Aeromancers Training (Reduce air skill CD by 20%), Weak spot
T1: Zephyrs boon, One with air, Ferocious Winds (gain 5% attack speed and 10% dmg while attuned to air)
T2: Inscriptions(Grants a boon associated with your current attunement – fire: vigor, air: haste, earth: resistance, water:regen – when you cast a glyph. Reduce Glyph Recharge by 20%, Bolt to the heart (20% dmg against foes under 33% hp), tempest defense (Surround yourself with a Shocking Aura when disabled.)
T3: Lightning rod (Disabling an enemy causes them to be struck by a Lightning bolt, Deal 20% more damage to disabled enemies), Fresh Air, Lightning Inscriptions (glyphs are instant cast)
Zephyrs speed needs to be a 25% increase. a 10% is useless even to run around in pve. 25% would make it viable, but would still keep the signet for holding the speed on other attunements and stun break.
Ferocious (as proposed here) winds make camping air attunement a good contender to use conjures with, improving the attack speed and dmg. It also improves the auto-attack capacity of scepter and staff users that are very slow…
Bolt to the Heart needs to be on T2 to have it synergy back with fresh air. But at the same time, moving the bonus dmg against disable foes to GM makes a possible great synergy with BttH and Lightning rod. this opens the possibility of high burst (BttH+LR) or more sustained bursts (BttH + Fresh air).
The changes to the buffs provided by inscriptions can make the trait more attractive to eles, opening up room for glyph uses… combine with instant cast glyphs in GM could make a great option (instant cast ress glyph? still long CD) for a buff spec ele or support ele.
The loss of electric discharge may seem harsh, but by combining it with other traits in the arcana would give the fresh air ele even more procs that would help him, if he specs in arcana.
Lightning rod as a tier 3 minor is far and above broken considering it hits as hard as what mesmer have to land interrupts for and take a gm trait to have. There are better ways to make ele have a strong burst spec without making a better better melee tank spec than glassy midranged build.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
There are a lot of issues with the traitlines changes in the elementalist.
First, the change of flame barrier makes it not able to work with lingering elements.
Lingering elements is a great idea of a trait, but as it only works with T1 minors its useless.
Now, before you could make it work with all 4 minors, but now it will only extend the duration of 1 or 2 (due to specs and elite specs substituting trait point distribution). So I hope they completely change the LE trait to work with any and all traits…
But thats not the point…For me, burning precision is a good T1 minor to increase burning application and duration for the fire-spec ele, it could be changed to only work in fire attunement, so it would have synergies with lingering elements too and not be too OP for a minor.
I like the concept of getting fire shield when attuning to fire, the problem is fire shield needs to be changed. I strongly believe that fire aura needs to be reworked into removing conditions when hit (1s icd), instead of applying might. This would make the aura more useful (not only for ele, but overall) and would open up possibilities to deal with condi spam without negating it. Currently, all auras have a good defensive value, except fire aura.
I’ve done some suggestions and analysis too, although didn’t get much feedback on it…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/suggestion-Eles-specs-and-playstyles/first#post5023386
also the flame barrier traits is awful, no one in their right mind would take it as a master and that is what you appear to have made it lol. and the pyromancers training s very good as it is right now i think a very different change of the fire traits would be much more beneficial especially to glassier builds that require high burst to work in pvp.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
There are a lot of issues with the traitlines changes in the elementalist.
First, the change of flame barrier makes it not able to work with lingering elements.
Lingering elements is a great idea of a trait, but as it only works with T1 minors its useless.
Now, before you could make it work with all 4 minors, but now it will only extend the duration of 1 or 2 (due to specs and elite specs substituting trait point distribution). So I hope they completely change the LE trait to work with any and all traits…
But thats not the point…For me, burning precision is a good T1 minor to increase burning application and duration for the fire-spec ele, it could be changed to only work in fire attunement, so it would have synergies with lingering elements too and not be too OP for a minor.
I like the concept of getting fire shield when attuning to fire, the problem is fire shield needs to be changed. I strongly believe that fire aura needs to be reworked into removing conditions when hit (1s icd), instead of applying might. This would make the aura more useful (not only for ele, but overall) and would open up possibilities to deal with condi spam without negating it. Currently, all auras have a good defensive value, except fire aura.
I’ve done some suggestions and analysis too, although didn’t get much feedback on it…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/suggestion-Eles-specs-and-playstyles/first#post5023386
your very wrong you can get all the attunement damage modifiers to overlap with lingering attunements ( fire + other attunement damage bonus on meteor shower anyone??? )
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Actually the attributes are a problem for a large amount of people. There’s already many existing threads on why having low HP forces us to gear and/or spec a certain way in various game modes. Even though increasing our base HP would not only be consistent in terms of the way the rest of the game is balanced and also allow people to diverge out of water/arcane they likely will never do it. This really affects all builds. including staff builds.
The same goes with how we are balanced as a class: thematically. What that means is that instead of having a normal power line, a condi line, a crit line, etc (like every other class) we’re instead spread out where each condi is put based on what they match thematically. This means we have multiple condi lines with burning only in Fire and Bleeding only in Earth. A more focused Power line could really help a staff build out.
Elementalist uniquely has access to the largest variety of weapon based ranged AOE abilities. Other classes like a Necro or the upcoming Chronomancer are tied entirely to their utility slots which often gives up colossal amounts of survivability as a result (especially when compared to triple Cantrip). Revenant and the Engineer (post overhaul) have some potential we’ll have to see. While Heart of Thorns will certainly shake things up I don’t really see another class being a contender flaws or no.
Just because you buff ele’s base hp or toughness doesn’t mean people will stop playing cele dd. It will just buff cele dd more then any glass build because the perma protection work better with higher hp and the higher healing of cele dd works better with high toughness. All your suggestions do not buff staff they make dd ele broken op.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Got infracted for posting names of players here. I apologize for that. Blurred other players names out now.
Heres my post:I had a 4v5 game because of Leeto being a BigD(get it? [Just a joke!]) and afking. I notice enemy team overcomits to fights. I keep a 3v1 going vs DPS ele, necro, and mes. I kill necro, and get the ele low but I mess up a distort so my heal gets interrupted by vamp runes. I get 5s burn I die because I couldnt heal (kitten you vamp runes!!). I kept 3v1ing them and we ended up loosing 490 to 500. I got called a hacker after the game.
Then a few weeks ago we’re wrecking this team in soloq because I happened to get a good team. 3 cap the entire game, after 350 I setup lord portal. I decide to just sit at range and AA, not do anything, I just tank a few wells from necro and go down because I’m basically not touching the keyboard. Necro calls me noob and proceedes to tell me how he was rank 1 on leaderboards, I tell him it doesnt mean anything because its just a farm. He asks me ‘did you play in ESL?’ I say ‘yes’ and he proceeds to tell me ‘its not a big deal’ in a desperate attempt of getting back at me.
A month or so ago I keep killing this thief by +1ing and in 1v1s. He whispers me in capital letters ‘you lucky c*** getting your lame a** lucky shatters off on me when I dont see you, get good’. Asks for 1v1s. Gets killed every 1v1 we do, proceeds to make excuses about how hes lagging, just came back, messed just this one thing up ect.
Helseth question was when I killed this thief in a 1v1, just proud to show that, he was decent from what I remember.
The ‘lord why you spamming skills’ was obviously a hater. Score was around 450 to 150 for us so I went playing like a kitten (my tradition as you can see).
The first guy is self explanatory.
How do you get infracted for that lol. But i guess i got infracted for asking eles not to QQ so yeah the mods sometimes should be more lenient, I can only guess who reported you for publicly showing whispers….
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content.
Not entirely true. Multiple guardians could bring enough reflects. A single guardian brings one reflect and a possible three absorbing domes. So, mesmer has them beat for reflects, we have access to four (using the signet heal to recharge warden for a quick 4th reflect), three base though, with traits.
Also its worth mentioning that the warden and temporal curtain aren’t always easy to set up right to actually use for reflects, especially in pugs where people don’t stand in the right place to actually benefit from them a lot of the time.
He never said mesmers didn’t have more he said guardians usually have enough, which is true.I singled out the word “reflects” in their post darling. That is something I want a newer player to be aware of. Mesmer has more of them when built for them. A guardian has absorbs, which is not a reflect. They only have one. So, by case of wording, they are not correct. Mesmer has more reflects than a guardian, but the catch 22 is they have to trait 4 points into Inspiration to get it. If you want to count it as who has more blocks, then yes, guardian has more.
Thankyou for adding the implied message to my quote !!!
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
sometimes teleporting seems to break the stomp animation for me and it appears to be a glitched likely caused by latency.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Typin, all the proof I need of lich being able to decimate things in a 1v1 is that it does 3.5k-6k on its autoattacks.
That’s no proof. You are being hypocritical in your criteria if you mean that seriously. Than I say: Proof of not being able to decimate everything in 1v1 is that you can kite the AAs. When you judge the things I say very critically, then do it with your own assumptions too please. At best what you do is a deduction. Necro in DS can do similar damage and it’s projectiles even have homing. So does DS Necro now also decimate everything in 1v1?
Death shroud necro has less hp, the projectile moves slower, the casting time for the projectile is enormous, and has no stability. The two are not comparable.
That being said…DS necro can do similar things to lich. I’ve been 1shot on my ele by a single life blast from a DS necro. The life blast did 5k, air + fire did 4kish, and then chill of death procced for the remaining 4k of my health. The difference is that DS has counters due to the slow windup, no stability, and less health.
I do know all of that. You seemed to have missed my point (probably intentionally…).
Except that isn’t comparable proof. One is objective and mathematical and uses the coefficients of the skill, it requires no video. The other is subjective. You can’t always dodge the AA, but a Lich blast will always inflict damage in a high mathematical range if it hits. If you respond “but it doesn’t always hit”, you need to show me the probabilities of how often it hits. Again requiring a video.
To expand on that idea:
Based on the math of the skill, I can say with absolute certainty that if you get hit ~5 times (absolute maximum, probably closer to 3 times) with the lich autoattack, you will die.
You’ve countered by saying ‘but you can block and dodge and blind all the attacks, so that’s not going to happen’.
I already proved my case, it’s on you to prove your statement.
If a mesmer takes mirror and has sword skills they can easily 1v1 a lich, its not even a problem for me as a 266 lockdown build with no stab strip on shatters. That said this argument is not about 1v1ing a lich its about if moa should cancel lich and still transform your foe. I believe the best solution is to have the necro return to lich after the duration of moa is over but others may chose differently if they believe differently or have different experiences.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
@Sebrent: Agreed, to a point. Sword-Dagger thieves are way harder to pin down. I think I’ve heard Rylock say that you can interrupt CnD and the chain skill for Infiltrator’s Strike. But that’s a little difficult for me just yet :P. Dagger-Pistol thieves, on the other had, as long as you can clear the blind, feel free to interrupt those Heartseekers. You know that it’s coming the second they fire the blinding shot. My problem with DP thieves is never the initial burst, it’s the complete reset after Shadow Refuge. If they can avoid the push/pull from the GS/Sword-Focus set, they have 15 seconds of making us play a guessing game. With Basilisk Venom and a backstab/steal combo, it’s a risky gamble if we want to time our dodge.
I’d say shatter does a little bit better than lockdown even in the thief matchup, but some people will prove me wrong.
But as I’ve stated elsewhere on these forums. The thief should just stick to shortbowing mesmers down. That weapon was F@#$ing designed for PVP.
Shortbow excels in all gamemodes from pvp and wvw to open world farms and blasting in dungeons it is by far the thief strongest weapon, which is why I made an sb only thief build :P
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
That like a free 100g your giving away witcher….
Then why aren’t you going for it? Besides it’s still a wiki if you feel like something’s off it would cost you roughly a minute to help out.
Your wiki won’t let me create an account or act anonymously without an account so I can’t if I want to.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
PU/MtD
These are all duel builds which work just fine in WvW.
TL;DR These are dedicated duel specs yet can’t hold points and most dedicated duel builds are going to beat these not to mention that there are many many builds out there that can fill this role better and be useful in other situations as well.
Which is obviously why I was able to play nothing but PU and sit happily at top 100 and top 150 in old solo queue and team queue, respectively.
Sorry, but you’re simply wrong. If you know what you’re doing these builds work just fine. If you try to play them like a standard power shatter or lockdown, you’ll fail spectacularly. If you play them leveraging their strengths properly, and with just a tiny bit of rational and logical thought, you can be extremely successful.
Yes, I know, you don’t agree. That’s ok, you don’t have to agree. I’m right, because I did it and proved it.
metabattle.com( which is an acceptable resource but in general is very close minded. )
The leader boards mean nothing a decap Sb only thief was rank 2 on the leader boards.
The leaderboards tracked your ability to win matches very effectively. If you win a lot, you’d sit at the top. Apparently, that decap thief was highly effective at winning. Trying to claim that the leaderboards meant nothing is just making yourself look foolish. If they meant nothing, why did every single notable player on the top teams sit near the tops of them?
Leader boards aren’t tracking your win to loss ratio they track quantity of points score, it just happens to be that all the top players play lots of matches so they score high on the leader boards.
Old leaderboards, not these broken ones.
How old are you talking about ? They changed them several times.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
PU/MtD
These are all duel builds which work just fine in WvW.
TL;DR These are dedicated duel specs yet can’t hold points and most dedicated duel builds are going to beat these not to mention that there are many many builds out there that can fill this role better and be useful in other situations as well.
Which is obviously why I was able to play nothing but PU and sit happily at top 100 and top 150 in old solo queue and team queue, respectively.
Sorry, but you’re simply wrong. If you know what you’re doing these builds work just fine. If you try to play them like a standard power shatter or lockdown, you’ll fail spectacularly. If you play them leveraging their strengths properly, and with just a tiny bit of rational and logical thought, you can be extremely successful.
Yes, I know, you don’t agree. That’s ok, you don’t have to agree. I’m right, because I did it and proved it.
metabattle.com( which is an acceptable resource but in general is very close minded. )
The leader boards mean nothing a decap Sb only thief was rank 2 on the leader boards.
The leaderboards tracked your ability to win matches very effectively. If you win a lot, you’d sit at the top. Apparently, that decap thief was highly effective at winning. Trying to claim that the leaderboards meant nothing is just making yourself look foolish. If they meant nothing, why did every single notable player on the top teams sit near the tops of them?
Leader boards aren’t tracking your win to loss ratio they track quantity of points score, it just happens to be that all the top players play lots of matches so they score high on the leader boards.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Why am I even trying. Ok, MtD is the best build universe. It can even 1v5 teams. /thread
I offered a reasonable argument you are the one who is being unreasonable right now. I never said MtD was better just that it has the strengths listed above and you outright refuse to admit it can be any good, don’t even read my posts or respond as if you haven’t, and insult guilds as if they are a single entity of which all members are identical.
That comment wasn’t only meant for you, but the direction this thread was taking. I’ve had one too many conversations about MtD on this forum and I do not want to turn this thread inot another one that’s why I do not want to elaborate. Your points are wrong btw, but I know that I will never be able to convince you.
Edit: nvm, very brief response: it doesn’t “force” any cleansing, a warrior/ele doing simple roations and healing can negate you as a side effect, your attacks are mostly unrelyable and only strong in theory, your weapon skills and shatters are clunky, power shatter destroys MtD in a duel, and is just as dependent on stealth if not more as you don’t have access to instant defensive mehcanics granted by IP or the distortion from sword 2.
switcher please go back to being a highly biased admin for metabattle.com( which is an acceptable resource but only recruits closed-minded admins )
We are where we are because we value quality over quantity and aren’t biased. Last month I’ve archived 2 of my favorite builds (which means removing it from the working category/frontpage), how is that biased? I think we are open minded, but that doesn’t mean we worship everything you can kill an enemy with in very specific situations.
Metabattle.com, at least for mesmer, is just about as close to a complete joke as is possible to achieve.
100g if you find a mistake in a shatter build for Pvp that we have. If you can’t, you owe me 100g. Deal?
That like a free 100g your giving away witcher….
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
PU/MtD
These are all duel builds which work just fine in WvW.
TL;DR These are dedicated duel specs yet can’t hold points and most dedicated duel builds are going to beat these not to mention that there are many many builds out there that can fill this role better and be useful in other situations as well.
Which is obviously why I was able to play nothing but PU and sit happily at top 100 and top 150 in old solo queue and team queue, respectively.
Sorry, but you’re simply wrong. If you know what you’re doing these builds work just fine. If you try to play them like a standard power shatter or lockdown, you’ll fail spectacularly. If you play them leveraging their strengths properly, and with just a tiny bit of rational and logical thought, you can be extremely successful.
Yes, I know, you don’t agree. That’s ok, you don’t have to agree. I’m right, because I did it and proved it.
metabattle.com( which is an acceptable resource but in general is very close minded. )
The leader boards mean nothing a decap Sb only thief was rank 2 on the leader boards.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Why am I even trying. Ok, MtD is the best build universe. It can even 1v5 teams. /thread
I offered a reasonable argument you are the one who is being unreasonable right now. I never said MtD was better just that it has the strengths listed above and you outright refuse to admit it can be any good, don’t even read my posts or respond as if you haven’t, and insult guilds as if they are a single entity of which all members are identical.
Edit: switcher please go back to being a highly biased admin for metabattle.com( which is an acceptable resource when finding meta builds but in general is very close minded. )because it fits you better than having a reasonable conversation with me, this is obvious because you refuse to even acknowledge my points.
Edit: ‘acceptable resource when finding meta builds’
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
(edited by Sadrien.3470)
When people say the builds are “bad” what they’re saying is that the specs don’t have as much of a place in teamplay by their very playstyle.
You are right about that, though if you are playing PU or MtD you are doing something wrong and the greatest issue is that it’s not only about teamfights.
PU/MtD
These are all duel builds which work just fine in WvW. Notably the best defense a mesmer has is Stealth – which isn’t an optimal choice for point contesting, and that’s the only role in Conquest where dueling makes sense. Let’s say you still go for it and engage in a 1v1 on a sidepoint. Most specs in the meta can easily counter you (shoutbow, cele ele, even cele engi can do that especially with elixir gun). But let’s say you are winning against something – at this point there is a good chance that your opponent fullcapped the node and the duel went on for ages, giving the enemy team chance to +1 the fight and quickly overwhelm the mes.
(Even if you are winning the duel, there is nothing you can do to stop your enemy from disengaging and resetting the fight.)
Now let’s say you are respawning and close needs help. The most you can do is to give motivational speeches because you will barely do any damage and if you do, ele/war/guard AoE cleansing will negate it.
And finally, there is no dire amulet so you can’t even have the optimal stats.TL;DR These are dedicated duel specs yet can’t hold points and most dedicated duel builds are going to beat these not to mention that there are many many builds out there that can fill this role better and be useful in other situations as well.
Lockdown – well technically this is still a power shatter build and there is nothing wrong with it. It can set up kills for the team with the immob, deal good dmg in teamfights, it’s useful.
These forums aren’t some cult
Actually this forum does feel like a hipster cult. :P You have an entire guild/forum worhsipping MtD and Lockdown hating on everything that’s more viable.
We don’t worship lockdown, half the members are Zerker gs staff shatter mesmers. It us a guild built to experiment because the meta is always changing and new things can become viable. Also MtD shatter is rather strong for mid fights be cause it forces foes to use cleanse, distributes lockdown condis, confusion even punishes cleansing, destroys engineers and teams with badly organized cleansing, has strong auto attack pressure, eats other mesmers alive, and has strong AoE condi application via shatter and is less dependent on stealth than Zerker mesmers.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.
Usually guardians can provide enough reflects for most PvE content.
Not entirely true. Multiple guardians could bring enough reflects. A single guardian brings one reflect and a possible three absorbing domes. So, mesmer has them beat for reflects, we have access to four (using the signet heal to recharge warden for a quick 4th reflect), three base though, with traits.
He never said mesmers didn’t have more he said guardians usually have enough, which is true.
Have fun. Be Alive. K Thnx Bye.