Guild Wars 2

“That…wasn’t an opinion up for debate. That was a fact. If all classes are down to 50% on vigor, and thieves trait for 100%, then they’re 2x ahead of all the other classes. Math doesn’t lie.” – Fay

“Shatter builds are still countered by heavy aoe pressure, not just phantasm builds. There’s a very good reason mesmers can’t do damage in WvW groups…shatters and phantasms both don’t work under heavy aoe pressure. Trying to land shatters on top of a hotly contested point is much the same.” – Fay

Since thieves suffered a direct nerf to s/d through nerfing feline grace, and vigor was nerfed any thief that specs into acrobatics has just kitten themselves, acro is a terrible traitline and, no it does not put acrobatic thieves ahead because energy sigils are now as effective as vigor and thieves never get complete use of on swap sigils. Acess to weakness was also increased and that nerfs dodging and therefore S/D theives who have no cleanse for weakness.

A mesmer can be extremely effective in dealing damage to a large group of foes. Chaos storm on top of empower will absolutely destroy the frontline when fully traited for interrupts and ruin the enemies rotations.

Projectile reflects also deal an enormous amount of damage while in a zerg.

Time warp on the elementalists is a direct increase in dps, caused by the mesmer. even if it isn’t the mesmer doing the damage. Phantasm and shatters are extremely underwhelming in zerg play though, which is a design flaw of the mesmer class.

Laraley.7695:

Lordrosicky.5813:

It should have a 1 second cast time before the heal and evade happens. Its not like they cant get it off in stealth or by porting away anyway. Add some counter play to it

Lol, then all thieves would start using Hide in Shadows cause this would be completely useless. It’s also used for the immob cleanse and if you put 1 sec cast time on it, it completely lose its purpose.

Don’t forget all the tourney thieves have SA now !!! This will make HiS way better comparatively than it used to be

rchu.8945:

style.6173:

rchu.8945:

Nyx.7342:

who wins the balance? engies. Already really strong and enjoyable, now more strong and interesting. Friend told me about 6 months ago that the balance devs were ahem, not smart about changes and turns out even tho i didnt believe him then, i believe him now. Movement changes, buffs to already really strong classes….its like wtf are they doing.

But props on mesmer changes

Mesmer changes look good on paper, but let’s not forget Anet gave even more love to thieves. In the end, Mesmers still going to be suboptimal, and not really inclusive in the meta classes because thieves will still own them.

Engineers didnt need any buffs, the lock-on trait should be given to more classes, such as Mesmer that has a hard time against thieves.

Mesmer and engi received the biggest buffs in the game. Shatter is going to be insane.

still cant compete against Thief for a meta spot, so Mesmer remains borderline irrelevant. Thief’s buffs just made them even better at its role, and more effective in killing Mesmers.

A rupts mesmer got way more buffs than shatter mesmer and I don’t think thieves will be as hard of a counter anymore. Mesmer will do a LOT that thieves can not and will probably make it into a LOT more high lvl teams.

Kelthien.8593:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Condition builds got such a huge buff its actually making condi look really extremely tempting now. Having IP baseline has opened up so many potential doors, and Condi-shatter got some massive improvements.. and thats not even considering the general condition damage buff.

I’d expect nearly all condi Mesmer to go some mix of Dueling/Illusions.

Absolutely agree. Chaos stands out as the best pairing to me (Chaos storm is life), though I could see some interesting things pop up from Inspiration as well.

Domination doesn’t seem to fit very well with condi… do we know if the “Shatter skills inflict 15% more damage” also affects the conditions applied by shattering, or is that purely the power-based damage?

It most likely does not.

I will start running PU and make videos of me winning fights against nubs without even directly attacking them. I will be running both power and condi rupt along with condi phantasm. As of now I don’t even play mesmer that much ( im lvling my necromancer to shove people off cliffs in mass), but obviously my old spec (266 rupts strength runes s/p gs) changes a lot. It will be 666 with PB, DE, and CI strength runes staff s/p most likely.

MandJ.8965:

I will buy rare gear.

trolololol

Daniel Handler.4816:

The buffs are not specific to build or class, they are to the viability of conditions in general. In the coming weeks we will see how stable things are. But the meta in pvp will shift. Hopefully we can get an equal mix of condition and power builds.

Very important, semi scary thing: resistance

One thing I forgot to mention is dueling, illusions, domination. This is the only build that can apply decent vulnerability and boon removal, but it is glass canon by nature. Bad access to condition removal, to defensive traits/protection, to enhanced utility.

No boon removal means no resistance removal which means sad time.

There are specific buffs to memser traits and indirectly MtD

resistance is the biggest reason to take arcane thievery

Coinhead.7591:

Sadrien.3470:

I never said it was. Also the difference in power is 44.

So if a dude has full exo armors and his total power is say 2000. Another dude wears ascended gear his total power would be 2044.

2044/2000 = 1,022

Would this mean that by wearing ascended armor that gives 10% more power than exotic armor he would get 2,2% more power?

yes that is correct.

Coinhead.7591:

Sadrien.3470:

Your argument was that a 10% gain in base damage is a 5% increase. I just proved that wrong. Your “counter argument” is absolutely irrelevant.

That is not what I am saying. Your stats consist of more than just your gear! You have your base stat of 926 now and 1000 next patch. For example your power is actually

1000 base power + power gained from armor + power gained from other gear + power gained from elsewhere.

It has been said that ascended armor will give 10% more stats than exotic. I think that means it gives 40 primary stat more than exotic. So a dude with full exo zerker armor would have 40 power less than ascended dude.

Is + 40 power a 10% increase in total power? I say no.

I never said it was. Also the difference in power is 44.

Coinhead.7591:

Sadrien.3470:

3% ok…. that doesn’t really matter though because your statement is still flawed. Please prove that 5% crit chance is = 1/2 of 56%

If exo dude has full zerker exo armor and asc dude has full zerker armor too. And lets assume critical damage formula stays the same too. (crit change is calculated: Critical Chance = (Precision – 841.9664) / 21.0084)

From his armor asc dude gets ~30 more precision. At level 80 to gain 1% of critical change you need ~21 precision. With that you would get an additional 1,42 crit change.

That does feel, but its not the end of the game.

Your argument was that a 10% gain in base damage is a 5% increase. I just proved that wrong. Your “counter argument” is absolutely irrelevant.

Gellrock.4073:

Malediktus.3740:

10% is still miniscule
10% more stats on ascended wont make you 10% more powerful, since a huge part of your stats come from the 1000 baseline anyway.

That’s true, we’ll have to wait to see how it is in practice before I can really make a decision. I just thought this might anger a lot a players in the WvW community if they don’t implement this change properly.

No its absolutely not true in any way. Lets compare your crit chance with 1k percision to your crit chance with 2k percsion for example.

1k percision = 8%
2k percision = 56%

1k percision is not half of 2k percision its roughly 1/7th

Fudge.9527:

Josh XT.6053:

Is there anything at all you people won’t complain about? I have 9 full ascended sets, at least one of every ascended weapon, typically 2-3 of some. I’ll have to adjust my armor to make way for the new changes too, but if you farmed as hard as I had to in order to get full ascended gear, then you best believe it better be like a 10% increase. If you don’t want to farm for ascended or fight people with it, go play PvP.

This guy gets it. My question is, why stop at only 10%? If you farm much harder than everyone else, shouldn’t you be getting at least a 50% increase? I feel like if you put in the hours and 500+ gold for Ascended, you should be able to 1-shot people in Exotics. After all, that’s basically how mass pvp works in every other generic MMO, and people bought GW2 knowing it was going to follow the exact same formula. So they shouldn’t be upset.

Best troll post on this whole forum thread

Coinhead.7591:

Sadrien.3470:

you forget the base armor which is a roughly a 4% gain in damage reduction, but ill forgive you.

Ascended dude is getting total of 60 additional armor rating from his armor compared to exotic. (Just the armor rating, not talking about toughness)

If exo dude has 2000 armor, asc dude has 2060 = 3% more
If exo dude has 3000 armor, asc dude has 3060 = 2% more

From what I have understood this stays the same. It is some difference, but not really that much.

Again this is what I expect the difference will be post patch:

Ascended armor vs Exotic armor
+60 armor rating
+40 main stat
+30 secondary stat

It is a difference, but its not that huge and it doesnt raise your total stats by 10%

3% ok…. that doesn’t really matter though because your statement is still flawed. Please prove that 8% crit chance is = 1/2 of 56%

Coinhead.7591:

Crapgame.6519:

10% is still 10%. What is 10% of 100 dollars? What is 10% of 1,000? That number is growing now, yeah? Let me ask you a question. How would you feel if I took away 10% of your speed? You would notice that I’m guessing.

WvW is a numbers game at the end of the day with population and wall clock coverage winning the day. Not so much skill in that. Easiest solution is to treat both PvP metas the same and let the PvE boys and girls have their stats to min/max.

Its not like that. Its more like

Each player has 1000 dollars.
Each player with exotic gets 1000 dollars more.
Players with ascended get 1000 and 10% bonus = 1100 dollars.

Exo players have 2000 dollars
Asc players have 2100 dollars

By gaining 10% more stats from ascended gear the player becomes 5% more powerful.

you forget the base armor which is a roughly a 4% gain in damage reduction, but ill forgive you.

You also forget that armor stats are greater than base stats. Your 1000 percision base is only a 5% crit chance but 2k percision is 56% and you can stack stats higher than 1000 base with just gear. Your logic here is entirely flawed.

Tongku.5326:

There is more to this then just skill and gear.

Remember balance in this game is based upon “rock / paper / scissors” So assuming player A is running a “Rock” build and player B is running a “Scissors” build or even a hybrid, if those 2 players have exact same skill level and exact same gear level, player A will still win by far, most of the times. RNG and pure luck will give player B his/hers only wins.

Now, assuming both players are running “Rock” builds, then yes, edge will go to the player with better gear, however, that margin is tiny in comparison where the traits are concerned as “Rock vs. Rock” duels are far few and inbetween. It is a rare chance when 2 players of same conterbuild meet, but it does happen and I can tell you from experience, those are the best fights. Thats when you say GG, thanks for the fights to your opponent in the most altruistic sense.

Your chances of beating a player that has a 10% stat bonus of ascended over exotics are by far better then beating a player that is in exotics, while you are wearing ascended, but he is running a counter build to you while you aren’t running a counter build to him. You will still get owned by the guy in exotics, it just takes somewhere between 3-10 seconds longer, trust me, been there done that on both ends.

Exception being here are perhaps warriors, mesmers and thieves whos escape mechanism CDs may reset within that timeperiod and they will run away causing a tie. But even within that group, most of the time, if you play right, you will make sure that will not be the case when you burn down their low health.

Not all builds are direct counters to one another and I’m not suggesting that these matches are always of evenly skilled players, but it really does not matter. A 10% gain in capability results in a 10% great win rate – end of discussion. The avg players will win 10% more fights with ascended gear vs other exactly avg players who are stuck with 10% less optimal gear when you run through infinite scenarios.

ArchonWing.9480:

I don’t think you can dismiss a class solely based on people not knowing how to use it. If someone doesn’t pick a frontline tanky build to command, it’s not the fault of the class itself. Why would a ranger need a LB to command?

I don’t really command myself, thus this is largely based on my observing the commanders. When I was tagged, all instances were either as a guild or an emergency pug tag, Ironically, the later usually happens on an engineer or necro….

IMO, a good player could use any class and all thoughts are anecdotal….
8.) Thief— Have seen about one good thief commander. In the end, too squishy and too much aoe/cleave negates the thief’s strength. Getting focused down is a major problem. Stability is an issue. Best choice would be to run a venom share, tanky build (don’t shoot me!), shadowstep helps tons.

7.) Necro— Have seen very few good commanders on a necro, as the stability change really nuked their best source. No way to stop being focused, bad stability, no mobility. Is mostly saved by wells, wells, marks, and plague form/chilling darkness which will buy you time. Necros are generally good anywhere in wvw, but I think their talents are a bit wasted up front.

6.) Ranger— Have seen very few good ranger commanders. Unreliable stability, but usually enough to last on contact. Mostly RAO and Signet of the wild/signet of the stone (sadly, stone does NOT make you invul, it just negates direct damage). GS/sw/d provides enough mobility, blocks, and escape route lest things get too dicey. Unfortunately, the pet is going to die close up, and thus that takes away Empathetic bond as reliable condi removal. If you have reliable stability in your party, you could easily take Entangle/LR with SOTF though.

5.) Engineer— Have seen very few good engineer commanders. Lack stability, but have good mobility and ability to avoid damage. Slick shoes can screw people up if they try to focus it down. Some kind of bomb heal/slick shoes with prot injection and melandru runes should be pretty kitten ed hard to kill though I am skeptical about the bombs. Capable of some serious healing

4.) Ele- Have seen many ele commanders. Capable of obscene healing/cleansing and sustain via water attunement. Tons of CC; only weakness is being focused down but mist form and of course vapor form makes ele not a sure kill.

3.) Mesmer— Have seen a few good mesmer commanders. Mantra of Concentration is one of the best sources of stability. Distortions are lifesavers and blink is one of the best escapes in the game. Plus, they are slightly harder to focus down due to their access to a number of interrupts and bring lots of utility. No real weaknesses, other than Guardians and Warriors existing.

2.) Guardian— Have seen a ton, obviously. No real need to explain. Stab, cleanses, group support, and ability to mitigate damage via protection and blocks. Either Ring of Warding or Binding Blade is excellent for collecting enemies in an area for your group to blast down. Only weakness is the base health.

1.) Warrior— A lot of warrior commanders as well, for good reason. Similar to guardian, but more excellent at selfish survival thanks to the healing signet as well as high base health. Warriors edge out guardians slightly as they are more mobile although their stab is on some really long cooldowns.

venom thieves are meta, no one will shoot you

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Thief.

I don’t like my commander Shadow Refuging and slipping out the back door when everyone’s getting wiped.

That and they can’t push.

Thieves push farther than anyone else. They hit the backline far in front of the enemy melee train. You sir, are a terrible zerg theif.

Zephyra.4709:

Just a fun topic on what YOU think is the absolute worst profession(s) at donning the role of commander; primarily PUG commanding.

My list from worst to best:

8. Ranger
7. Thief
6. Necromancer
5. Elementalist
4. Engineer
3. Mesmer
2. Guardian
1. Warrior

I don’t know about you guys but rangers take the cake at being the worst when it comes to commanding; little support, always in the back longbow’ing away at god knows what, pet(s) die to cleave instantly, no reliable anti-CC abilities other than RaO and SoS which get stripped in seconds anyway.

Maybe I’ve just been having an ongoing plethora of bads in general tagging up with this profession? Ehhh.

The second worst profession to come to mind is thief. Sorry guys but I have witnessed uncountable instances where these bad boys tag up and command like their profession; teleporting everywhere (confusing players), running ahead of the zerg (losing players, long tail) because you can, downing a lot (quite squishy) and generally having zero stability other than DS which, in turn, will most likely get you killed by retaliation.

Other notable professions include necro due to barely any stability/escape/leaps and a toss up between engi/ele as I’ve one too many times had terribads clad in what seemed to be full zerk-twerk-time that go down very quickly with those professions.

What professions do YOU think are the worst at commanding? Feel free to discuss this topic amongst yourselves.

rangers have lots of AoE immobilize and power melee attacks. with pack runes and s/w rangers provide permanent group fury. Rangers have extremely high mobility when running a duel melee set, a 6s immunity to damage, and rediculous evasion uptime. I put them above thief and necro atleast in commanding capability. Rangers also have a powerful water field.

My ranking list: ( best to worst)
1. Guardian
2. Warrior
3. Mesmer
4. Elementalist
5. Engineer
6. Ranger
7. Necromancer
8. Thief

Cobrakon.3108:

Is this a true statement:

In a duel, the closer 2 people’s skills are evenly matched, the more important gear becomes in a duel.

Now I didn’t say how much more important, but that generally speaking it does become more important.

your thoughts plz

ascended gear is a total of 15% cushion now for players with full ascendeds now in terms of damage. If you look at armor defense and celestial stats the gain becomes much larger. And with the emphasis on stats this gain becomes much greater. Already that 15% can carry your missed dodge, or cause instant death to your foe where as if you were in exotic gear your foe could react and kill you. The amount this changes could be extremely bad for the pvp community when they join WvW. New players who want to join WvW will be discouraged by the ever growing power gap between ascendeds and full exotic. It will force players moving from pvp to wvw to spend months grinding boring pve content. Ascended gear should not be a huge difference in terms of stats for pvp purposes because it affects fights heavily and does not promote more skillful play than your opponents to win. Instead it allows you to gain the upper hand via farming ( a skill less activity).

Crapgame.6519:

10% is still 10%. What is 10% of 100 dollars? What is 10% of 1,000? That number is growing now, yeah? Let me ask you a question. How would you feel if I took away 10% of your speed? You would notice that I’m guessing.

WvW is a numbers game at the end of the day with population and wall clock coverage winning the day. Not so much skill in that. Easiest solution is to treat both PvP metas the same and let the PvE boys and girls have their stats to min/max.

give us equalized ascended stats in wvw where you have your inventory panel able to choose any stat combination for all piece of gear that have stats and any sigil we chose as well as any rune set that exists in the game. I like your solution

BrickFurious.7169:

Orochimaru.4730:

10% isnt much, 5% isnt much, even 1% isnt much.

But when you put two identically evenly skilled players together where one has the ascended gear, the one with the ascended gear will always win.

It’s not much, but every little helps when it comes to any fight.

So if you have the gold and mats craft your ascended gear. If you dont exotics are fine but expect to lose some fights.

Exactly this. Even the current gap between ascended and exotics was annoying, because no matter how small the gap is it still matters when you’re fighting other players. Now it’ll be even more annoying. It wouldn’t be so bad if ascended armor wasn’t such a massive gold sink, but as a 95% WvW player…I just don’t have 600 gold to drop on a full set of ascended armor. It just isn’t realistic. Do we all have to go farm silverwastes now if we want to be on an even playing field in WvW?

my inventory stays at about 7 gold consistently unless I farmed all day that day. I have plenty of exotic weapons and ascended trinkets, but ascended armor and weapons have been outside of my reach unless they come as random drops or someone kind is willing to donate me enough money to make some ascended weapons.

Advent.6193:

As a huge proponent of Mesmers getting more OOC speed:
I can work with the new SoI … hell, it’ll actually get back on my freakin utility bar for the first time in months. Not to mention, popping Air Runes instead of Traveler for a bit more damage potential.

i’m not sure about air runes actually having more damage, it depends heavily on your crit chance.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Whether it is “Too much” will be decided by playtesting it the next few weaks. Remember there was a correction to torch so the phantasm bounces do not cleanse conditions. This means that if we take your version.

dueling, illusions, inspirations has no access to protection
dueling, illusions, chaos, has no access to meaningful condi removal without adding in a utility or sigil or rune.
dueling, illusions, chronomancy has no meaningful access to the previous two and must rely on utilities.

there is always a sacrifice.

your correct here, but MtD certainly becomes much more powerful after the patch.

Kicker.8203:

Windwalker.7421:

MailMail.6534:

Hmm it’s still to be seen, but I’m pretty sure thieves will still counter Mesmer. My hope is that it just won’t be a ridiculously hard counter anymore.

Totally agree. I don’t think that it’ll be Mesmers>Thieves, that was not a notion I was ever defending, but it was:

Thief >>> Mesmer

and may now be closer to:

Thief >= Mesmer

With many caveats of course…

Mesmers gonna get half of their best traits(including a grandmaster) baseline. They get up to 4 traits melted into one. Blind on shatter. these alone get thieves rekt

Theives already have numerous blinds to spam, an immobilize cleanse + evade and uninterruptable heal, and are gaining a huge boost to their effectiveness through gaining the ability to use ectoplasm 2x = almost perma uptime on all the boons in the game + the ability to steal the mesmers boons. The match should continue to favor thieves a little but we will have to see how even the playing field is when this goes live.

Expansive.3716:

Sadrien.3470:

EremiteAngel.9765:

Even though I don’t play mesmer and got no idea what those changes to you guys mean, I believe you guys.

the mesmer thread is overflowing with joy.
I’m happy for you mesmers. no longer going to get whipped by thieves.

All I can say is… with the way mesmers have had to work harder to get less for so long…. Now everyone will think mesmers are God.

This is precisely what i’m afraid of. There will be a ton of salty tears from players of other professions

yeah, I’m scared memsers will get nerfed to the ground because the other players are used to being able to faceroll and beats us and will QQ too much on the forums I hope Robert Gee will deal with this the right way.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Windwalker.7421:

Here are a “few” more…

- Power Block causing Weakness on interrupt
- Confounding Suggestions being a 100% stun on Daze (hello Daze + MW combo!)
- AE Blind on Shatter
- PU providing us with longer & more Stealth than Thieves (and the ability to even specialize into PU while still running a Power Shatter build.)
- Mental Defense, summon pDefender off block or evade
- Restorative Illusions cleansing a condition and healing yourself on shatter
- Cripple on CoF

Virtually every line has some “game changer” in it, as do our Elites (new Moa & Time Warp both are greatly improved!)

Then there is also the 2x 1200 range Blink via Mimic as a perfect getaway. (Or PU + MI for 10s of Stealth will do as well.)

And we haven’t even gotten around to all of the vast Condition damage improvements that will continue to wreck Thieves even more than they already do now.

can you explain how does mimic work for 2 × 1200 range blink?

according to wiki:

Mimic Copy boons from a targeted foe to yourself and doesnt blink

see mesmer changes for the update on 6/23/15

Daniel Handler.4816:

Guys I don’t think you actually want it to stack. Because if you do they have to change it to a pulsing aoe. Which you don’t want. Think if symbol of swiftness were a straight line. There are no exceptions to what stacks and what doesn’t. And that is a good thing.

See my earlier comment please daniel

I explain that because anet already has the capability to individual entity icds for traits and weapon abilities they should just make a icd per player on gaining swiftness from each temporal curatain.

Me Games Ma.8426:

Yamsandjams.3267:

That won’t be happening… unless they’ve been sipping THAT kind of Kool-Aid over at the ANet office.

All people would do it run back and forth over it to stack up a bunch of swiftness, and then run around with it. This was how it was like in the betas, and that’s why they made it work the way it does now.

Of course, it would be nice if it would remember if you has already crossed it, and thus only give you one stack of swiftness per line, but I don’t think they’re setup to do that properly in their code.

Signet of inspiration got the buff though, so now there is a dedicated movespeed option for mesmers. It’s a brave new world.

This argument against the stacking doesn’t count. There are traits that have ICD per target. Why can’t there be a skill with ICD per target?

Edit: Oh someone already said this :x

Yep you and pyro both said it after me XD

Fay.2357:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Me Games Ma.8426:

Yamsandjams.3267:

That won’t be happening… unless they’ve been sipping THAT kind of Kool-Aid over at the ANet office.

All people would do it run back and forth over it to stack up a bunch of swiftness, and then run around with it. This was how it was like in the betas, and that’s why they made it work the way it does now.

Of course, it would be nice if it would remember if you has already crossed it, and thus only give you one stack of swiftness per line, but I don’t think they’re setup to do that properly in their code.

Signet of inspiration got the buff though, so now there is a dedicated movespeed option for mesmers. It’s a brave new world.

This argument against the stacking doesn’t count. There are traits that have ICD per target. Why can’t there be a skill with ICD per target?

Edit: Oh someone already said this :x

All aoes with no target cap follow the same pattern. If they apply a cc, the cc will be reapplied when they enter the radius. If they apply a boon or a condition, it will not be reapplied.

Yeah, but they’ve demonstrated the ability to have a local icd timer on a specific person (with hitting auras, with the new ineptitude, etc). They could implement that for curtain and put a local icd on acquiring swiftness from temporal curtain.

I already said this pyro no need for you to waste your time. but I guess your writing is more eloquent than mine XD

littlebabyprincess.9786:

How much did Anet paid you for this message? Explain why existing players are denied a chance to create a revenant without paying another $10 more. I am not even factoring the free game.

He is a dev alt account

akaCryptic.2389:

Sadrien.3470:

akaCryptic.2389:

I agree with you but don’t care enough anymore. Mained necro since I started last year, but now I’m gonna switch to our elementalist overlords.

I constantly get the feeling that other class developers and necro class developers live in different planets. When every sing class has acces to either one of; a sort of immunity, teleport or stealth (cough mesmers got em all) and necro has none of these. Flesh wurm just teleports me 1 step to the side like 1/3 of the time. We look okay on paper but the class has a low skill ceiling, discourages creative thinking in games like teleport up ledges to escape focus fire or juke (i.e mesmer sword 2) but instead we tank what we are thrown…

Hey, don’t worry. Robet HAS to fix this.

After all the feedback and report from the forums not much changed. If don’t fix things by tuesday, chances are they never will, maybe only minor things. The forum had dozens of AMAZING and creative ideas for GS and existing skills. Some include projectile block on CPC, A Bone wall on GS that blocks then explodes, Death Shroud Elite skill and so on…

I’m pretty sure they’ll listen to reason. If they don’t necromancer need to have some kind of protest

Laraley.7695:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Sadrien.3470:

Icebow is no longer being nerfed, hurray ! Now lets just hope tornado becomes instant like plague

I don’t even understand why the reversed their nerf decision, and then turn around and buff it… I thought they didn’t want it to be a “use #4 and toss” deal.

But oh wells.

It was clever, though. People were worried about IB being nerfed, so now they’re happy it got some buffs. Very meaningless buffs, though.

I wouldn’t call them meaningless, but insignificant is a better description. I’m just happy I can still prevent ktrainers bots from roaming freely, because there is no way I can report them all.

Empty Sky.6354:

If they make Conjured weapons same as kits,they can leave attument cd. It’s such a simple thing to do. And eles would become so much more than d/d,staff or s/f or d/f.

And while they are at it,they can put Tornado in Utility choice,since it sucks,while they move something from Arcane utility skills to Elite. The one,where you crit 5 times would be nice.

I find that tornado would be a great skill if they just removed the cast time.

Jasher.6580:

I don’t play an Ele.

One of the reasons why I don’t play an Ele is the same reason why I don’t play a Thief.

I find it overwhelming.

Too many buttons, too many things to remember. All the combo’s and blast finishers… too much.

I multi-class though. I play everything else.

That being said, I’ve seen a lot of people complain that the upcoming changes will be simplifying Elementalists…

How so? I’d really like some detail on that.

If they are really making them easier, that is good news for me…

I’ve actually always liked the idea of playing an Ele… but the attunement switching and the need to do blast finishers and combo’s… I didn’t like having to cycle through all that. I tried Diva’s Condi Signet Build which was really fun, but it wasn’t very effective during higher tiers of gameplay.

Will these changes make it simple enough that I may actually enjoy playing an Elementalist more extensively?

If that’s the case, how so?

Play dd and write a bot. It will carry out the fixed rotations perfectly and probably perform much better than you since you do not handle elementalists mechanics well.

Sunshine.5014:

Ryld.1340:

I actually feel like I’m getting buffed with my build.

0/0/6/6/6 will give me higher protection update. Frost Aura as Staff will be very welcome. Buffs to Ether Renewal which will now give Vigor and Regeneration. EA dodge roll heal unnerfed (big thing there). Elemental Contingency for free when I didn’t have it in my build before? Blasting Staff is now free and clearing up another spot? Extra damage reduction from Earth’s minors and now I can get Evasive Arcana, Water Swap Heal, AND Rock Solid + Ether Renewal combo? This sounds great.

It’s because you play Bunker staff. I played it for so long I’m actually kind of sick of it. I’m not saying you’re playing it wrong or anything. I just wish that Berserker Staff Ele becomes more viable in PvP. It’s more fun, and more active.

Right now the Bunker staff is like “alright, you can’t kill me, I can’t kill you, let’s run around on the point, slowly draining each other”. It’s also very boring to the audience. Nothing for the shoutcasters to tell either.

I play an offensive staff ele in my team, when I want to play staff. I’d say it’s a lot stronger than people realize in team fights. My team peels for me, so reacting to the enemy isn’t as much of a problem, but I feel like staff has some very potent skills for that anyways.

Jski.6180:

littlenana.8150:

Jski.6180:

littlenana.8150:

Guys…it is a horrible, terribad, useless buff.

Now lets talk about how awesome, great, fantastic that they get rid of Fire Embrace.

(last thing you wanna do is to praise the goodness of a trait or post a build based on it)

Fire Embrace we will miss u!

By all 30 of you in all of gw2!

Its a major buff effectively you have 4 air atuments on-top of having a base 10 sec cd on atuments with the ability to push it down to 8.5 sec. Its more then d/d though or s/other staff can get use out of the new fresh air due to its persisting dmg effects images dropping a metor and jumping to air each time you get a crit. Soon staff ele is going to be able to gank in wvw or even spvp. As for pve the dmg out put should be all the higher.

Do i have to explicitly tell you…the more you talk about how great a buff is..

the more likely it will be on the nerf list in the future patches?

Consider how many posts/builds we had all based on Fire Embrace..Poof all gone.
Now do us a favor, and keep all this Fresh Air hype to yourself.

I am sure the majority of eles are smart enough to use the right traits nowadays,
since not many are left : P ( Bye Fire Embrace…Bye)

All 2 builds? Fire embrace was an very nite build that most ppl did not run and going crazy over the lost of something so finite feels more like a “look at what they did becuse i cant deal with the changes” thing to point out. Most likely One did not truly play that type of build as a main thing. One wanted to run bolt to the heart and Fresh air so ones attking the update even if it was a buff to the build.

I mean look at the upheaval of EA update and the numbers behind it now look at the upheaval of FE or even the BttH one is out match in every way GET OVER IT.

Leaving fire to go into air on staff is a dps loss. L2P

FrownyClown.8402:

its going to be great for dagger/focus users. the auto attack alone makes it worth going into air. focus also won’t be tied down to its lack of mobility any longer.

Have you been playing too much pve elementalist QQ, scepter is much closer to viable for pvp.

Dirame.8521:

Bhawb.7408:

We got amazing trait synergy too… as long as you don’t play condi.

EVEN IF you play condi.

I mean guys, seriously, Plague Sending exists right? I’m not dreaming it up am I? You’re complaining about consume conditions when, if you really wanted to, you could have 4 ways to transfer condis to your enemy, 1 way to consume those conditions, and another way to convert those conditions into boons.

Now I don’t know about you but that sounds to me like Necros have no issue at all.

Necros have lots of issues. You don’t play a necromancer do you?

dood.7526:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Maybe you could Consume Conditions so you can put yourself in combat and drop one? ;-D

And then do another transfer to get rid of the vulnerability keeping you in combat!

#necromobility

Yes, transfer it to the mob you just had to agro because you hit dodge after using your heal out of combat.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

Shaogin.2679:

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
Lich form is actually longer than pre-nerf with trait and benefits from spectral traits. Aka, it’s better now. also, 1 stack of bleeding while in plague form is not even going to come remotely close to killing you. They only added that one stack of bleeding to make it in line with the corruption skills theme. please learn something instead of just jumping on the bandwagon and complaining for the sake of complaining.

THANK YOU somebody who knows how our traits and utilitys work. all this forum hate is incredible and annoying no wonder we dont get fixes/changes. if u are a dev and the only thing u get form a certain profession forum is hate would you read all of it to find some constructive criticism?

Yes, I would . :P I ofc, would be a tremendously small minority their though

Dirame.8521:

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

3. “Furious Demise” , Minor2 in the Curses Specialisation. 5s of Fury doesnt serve any Condition build. Curses is now a condition-only specialisation since power has now 4 way better options so no power build will play it.

Are you sure you’ve read the traits in curses properly? And I guess maybe you only play Carrion Amulet maybe? But see, there are those of us who play Rabid or even Carrion and still want that fury so that we can proc things like;

Sigil of Torment
Plague Sending
Weakening Shroud
Sigil of Blood
Sigil of Rage
Sigil of Generosity
Sigil of Strenght
Sigil of Nullification
Sigil of Earth

But hey, maybe it’s just me.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

5 healing while in Shroud: one of the main reasons why Consume Conditions is our only available heal is the fact that Signet of Vampirism and Well of Blood dont benefit us while being in Shroud. Not even Regeneration we applied to ourselver (Mark of Blood) works. it was said that all siphoning will work now but that isnt enough.. every other class benefits from running around with an ele or engineer BUT not the necro because when he needs the heal he is unaffected bc he is im Shroud. EVERY OTHER CLASS CAN BE HEALED DURING THEIR INVULERABILITY!!! think of that..

From personal experience, I’ve seen the power of Unholy Sanctuary and, you wouldn’t believe how effective it can be ON ITS OWN. Throw in the ability to life steal while in DS and yea…… don’t knock it till you’ve tried it.

The rest of your suggestions are valid though. 3 of 5 aint bad.

3/5 is a passing suggestions grade, that’s rare !!!

Devs you better start reading, I will be commenting more on ele too, because it was buffed the wrong way.

Mesmers are happiest and had the best designed changes

ele / engi / ranger/ mesmer got the most

Necros got obliterated and had their hopes crushed #RobertPlsFix

War got a lot too

Guardian got a good amount

Rev is yet to be available

Ranger got a TON too, but nothing OP (imo, we will have to see)

Ele got its changes in the wrong way #RobertTellKarlToFixIt
( cantrips ( tornado) should be instant, fresh air should have an icd, auras should be improved, camping should be discouraged)

Eight Samurai.6840:

So if an existing player buys the ‘core game’ again then shouldn’t we get 5 character slots for buying it again?

That was my suggestion. I hope anet listens. The core game has effectively been spent in value but the character slots haven’t, especially because it’s a couple values in a table.

akaCryptic.2389:

I agree with you but don’t care enough anymore. Mained necro since I started last year, but now I’m gonna switch to our elementalist overlords.

I constantly get the feeling that other class developers and necro class developers live in different planets. When every sing class has acces to either one of; a sort of immunity, teleport or stealth (cough mesmers got em all) and necro has none of these. Flesh wurm just teleports me 1 step to the side like 1/3 of the time. We look okay on paper but the class has a low skill ceiling, discourages creative thinking in games like teleport up ledges to escape focus fire or juke (i.e mesmer sword 2) but instead we tank what we are thrown…

Hey, don’t worry. Robet HAS to fix this.

Siva Mira.3546:

Step1, picking all 5 Corruption skills.
Step2, traits for Master of Corruption.
Step3, activating all 5 Corruption skills. By doing so you give yourself 10 conditions or in other word, you just Signet of Spite yourself. But don’t worry the good part is coming.
Step4, you are in downstate now, the most OP thing Anet ever give us. Press 1
Step5, Profit!!!

I expect this build is going to be so OP that Anet will have to Patch it after 2 hours once the update went live.

Exploits!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bhawb.7408:

Ice Furl.4982:

Whining people into giving you what you want is a terrible thing.

Its not about whining until they give us what we want, its about expressing a completely valid opinion in the hopes that ANet makes good changes. The reality is that they made bad decisions, and if no one says anything we can’t fix that. Only reason we even got changes this good was due to thousands of posts of feedback.

Ice Furl.4982:

The necro forums are probobly the most negative proffession forums on here and I dont think it is because necromancer is so bad now but because early on necros had alot of bugs that did not get fixed for a long time so that created a very toxic enviorment.
The necro forums are probobly the least looked at by the balancers because of how extreamly unreasonable most people here seem to be.

Not remotely true. Necromancers have traditionally been some of the most constructive and realistic of all the profession forums. Just because we don’t get on our knees before ANet at every sight of false hype doesn’t mean we are toxic. We are the most reasonable forum, the first thing you’ll see most people (at least the long standing members) do when they suggest buffs is very carefully outline counterplay and accompanying changes or nerfs in order to keep suggestions from getting out of hand.

The most toxic forum is the elementalist forum and they aren’t toxic, they just like to QQ

necromancer forums have never seemed that unreasonable to me. Some specific members are out of hand but that is not the fault of the necromancer community.

Cecilia.5179:

Gryph.8237:

Devs chose a Necro representative from this community and start working with them. It’s obvious you’re lost

I think we need a Necro CDI. The level of Necro hate from the devs is unrealistically bad. Maybe somebody should make a music video about it. I’m thinking Wrecking Ball would make a good parody for this situation.

Make choxie, holtts, or another well known necromancer in charge of this.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Would that solve most of the complaints?

It would solve most of mine.

I actually think we are under-reacting to the consume conditions mega nerf. The fact is that its our own even semi viable heal in pvp. Its “ok”. It is not great because it can be easily countered by good players.

The main problem is we condition necromancer is dead because you can’t take terror if you want to have a viable heal. Consume conditions on a 30s cd with a 1.25s cast and gives you vulnerability isn’t viable at all. It is terrible. And it hurts EVERY single necro builds. Every one. The 5 second increased cooldown is a much bigger issue than the vulnerability. This is OUR ONLY HEALING on any condi spec. And it is being nerfed by 20%. We are essentially getting our sustain nerfed by 20%. This is beyond huge. This game has no healers and so every class needs to have a viable heal in order for it to be even remotely useful. It is of critical importance.

I dont think any of the traits will change. But maybe we can persuade anet to not make CC a corruption skill. To just leave it as it is. Heck, at this point I will be happy with this outcome.

Those 10 stacks of vulnerable will draw pressure to you, ensuring that if your low and just succeeded in healing you will be focused to death so it’s even worse than you make it sound.

Tobias.8632:

We have yet to see how much health per second we’ll be able to get with siphon on hit from minor trait + siphon on hit from aura.

Seems they want consume conditions to be a skill that only “conditionmancer” builds use and they’ll have access to dagger 4.

We need to see how good well of blood is with all the well traits and etc. The normal “powermancer” is already a primarily wells build relying on well of corruption and well of suffering as their main DPS utilities. The only reason no one calls it a “wellmancer” is because the current blood magic sucks so no one picks up the wells traits.

The fact that necro got such a mixed bag of nerfs and buffs was kind of insulting when other classes who are already stronger got straight buffs all around though.

Plague form’s self bleeding is godkitten ridiculous.

Self-bleeding when you have no cleansing ability …. that’s insane. They need to add a transfer on plague if they are going to do that. I would put 1 stack , of pulsing vulnerability on plague for 3s instead.

1 stack of bleeding may not sound like much, but the duration can be doubled 12s, and the condition damage per tick could be 2 + .3 * 80 + .075 * condi damage
Assuming you have fairly low condition damage, 1000, and 50% higher duration this will be [ 2 + 24 +( .075 * 1000)] * [ 6 (seconds of bleeding) * 1.5 ( extra duration )]

( 2 + 24 + 75 ) = 101

101 * 6 * 1.5 = 909 damage of bleeds per second

This means each second of being plague form, where you have no cleanse will apply 909 damage in bleeding to you and the other, unmentioned, condition from the corruptions trait. Assuming you have the corruptions trait, 50% condition duration and 1000 condition damage. Right now it is possible too achieve over 2000 condition damage and 100% additional duration 200% of base). This means it is possible to more than double let this damage.