Guild Wars 2

It’s a definite L2P issue if people are saying they can’t beat a DH on fair 1v1 grounds. The same goes for Thieves, a class that has always had issues with Guardians in TPvP. At best, a good Thief will stalemate the fight until either two classes makes a mistake.

People need to talk about DH performances in a team vs team setting. DH is only as strong as the team he’s on and the comp he’s playing against. As an example, Necro/Thief/Mesmer is a worse comp for a DH compared to War/Engi/Ele.

I’ve made similiar play with Torch#4, immediately turning around and hitting a stealthed thief or Shield#5 a thief out of SR.

Nice plays!

There’s just an imbalanced shift in the meta right now with players choosing DH because it’s darn fun and unique for the guard. We’ll see this Sunday what’s really OP and what isn’t.

Either the new comp matchup will faceroll double DH Guards in the ESL and it’s just a soloQ issue or there really is an issue with DH Guardians on point.

These EU and NA ESL matches will basically govern class balances, imo.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Well, one the abjured elaborated on that point telling us that the reason was most likely how powerful minstrel was at top tier. According to him, he said that matches would actually go on until the time limit was reached and, in some cases, the scores wouldn’t even be close to 500.

Although no one actually understands the reasoning being the removal of the runes. My best guess would be because they summoned AI and with the recent AI buff, they’ve become a tad bit obstructive (nothing that can’t easily be dealt with by switching targets for a second, but nonetheless). I suppose venom share and virtue of justice could’ve been an issue if they procced with those minions (not sure).

I’m curious if there’s a bit more simplistic reason to it. A few newer players came onto GW2 and said they didn’t like the “Tank” classes in the game. Other threads mentioned Minstrel needing to be removed. I guess Anet was already keeping a close eye on the amulet and decided to flip the switch the moment the amulet looked unhealthy.

The only class that showed signs of bias is the Rev but that’s because he’s an “elite” class who’s part of the HoT package. Then he got a small nerf after the esl so there goes that assumption.

Atm there are no obvious signs of bias favoritism.

Anet are doing a good job with balance fixes, imo. They haven’t done anything drastic like Duuhmfire in a long time. These nerfs are mainly QoL, “that’s obviously op”, items.

Across-the-board nerf/buff on all classes should occur after every 3rd or 4th ESL tournament. Lets face it, the first ESL was a build + team composition test run for everyone.

Exedore.6320:

Saiyan.1704:

To be honest, the only thing that can be toxic is two players offering two different experiences based on their own point of view that may or may not be 100% accurate. These heated debates could originate from

• #1 The competitive realm they compete on.
  SoloQ meta is different than Team ESL play

• #2 Learn 2 Play elements from the player himself.
  including engagement strategies on the map

• #3 The build a particular person plays
  using a non-meta build for example

• #4 A one sided aspect that’s seen on one build from one class, while the other professions have 0 issues

5. Saying a mechanic or build is fine because it isn’t prominent in high level play.

That’s in #1, #3 and partly #4, depending on the complaint.

Condi Mesmer prepatch for example. People QQ nerf on them in soloQ when they weren’t even an issue in higher tier play.

Same for RoF on Ele
Same for Burn Guardian’s PF once RoF got nerfed.
Same for condi mesmers

No one in higher tier play had issues with these items except for soloQ players. It’s why the devs didn’t nerf burn guards… not just because the meta was about to change, because it was soloq complaints.

grahf.7540:

The only counters to a GOOD DH trapper right now is to a. Kill them without triggering any traps (difficult but doable if you are careful and have numbers advantage). b. Ignore that point and concentrate on getting the other points. c. Send your pet/minions in there to trigger traps first.

I take it you didn’t watch the ESL. Hint: Watch how Abjured handles the DH guards.

grahf.7540:

There is no question DH is a top-tier build right now for Conquest. Whether it needs further nerfs is absolutely impossible to say without seeing metrics that only Anet has access to. Let’s just leave them to do their work.

Solo Unrank Queue does not govern the meta game. If it did then Anet would nerf items based on these players Solo Unrank experiences.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Nah, it sounds like people running the game on low specs. Not much to be expected when every game’s download page warns you that you will experience less-than-optimal play if you don’t meet the recommended specs.

Lol! That should be your sig.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

Saiyan.1704:

Pure Burns – no traps
This is the only burn build that I like, though, I feel core guardian can perform better with virtues, valor and radiance in team fights.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRArd8elsAhmhY5QwaIwPEL+D1V4eBfgc4f+tvVAUB1JA-TJhAwAW3fgzJBYcZAAPBAA

It’s a burn on block build that’s mainly good in small skirmish fights, even certain 1v1 fights but underperforms in blobs compared to power DH. It’s an easier build to play considering the passive playstyle of burns on block.

why didnt you take torch and the zealots flame trait? You are missing out on 8 stacks of burn…

The Zealot’s Flame trait is indeed taken.

You can use Shield or Torch depending on personal preference.
I just prefer the Shield’s survivability and additional blocks. I like Sword#2 + Shield knockback combo to get a rez or push people out of PF for another burn stack.

Where are you getting 8 burn stacks? At best Torch#4 and the trait offers 6.

Edit
Oh you mean Torch#4 start and end effects. That 250 radius burn, unless used with sword#2, isn’t guaranteed to proc. Same for the start/end effects on Radiant Fire. If this was a guaranteed proc then i’d definitely use the torch. Right now I just like how the shield plays.

Lejero.4168:

Concept, you simply have no clue about DH! 22.000 DMG by Maw and Procession…have you ever played this Spec? In best case in pvp it is round about 12.000 DMG. Besides that Maw is buggy then hell and you never know if it hits or not, and when the target is just a little bit intelligent, Maw and procession will not hit (fully) due to a dodge (or stab).

Why is everyone complaining about the “so strong” DH??? Playing DH against medium players is very tricky and not easy. To stomp a lot of noobs is of course very easy, but that is valid for every class.

And Everyone is playing Unranked PvP. This includes newbie players who are still trying to grasp rotational strategies and meta mechanics.

Where are all the veteran players QQing about DH? I like seeing new faces but most of these players are inexperienced PvP players.

sinject.4607:

ragnarokda.1805:

Lavexis.5360:

the problem with thieves is that.. they can’t do anything against wells, traps and medi guardians (condi thief might have higher chances against them though).

While classes like warrior can just use endure pain and berserker stance so that he can tank the wells and traps for his team. Mesmer also can use illusion to trigger those wells and traps.

Thief literally has nothing against wells and traps. D/D thieves can vault and dodge around, but once he land on that stacked traps and wells..hes done for, but classes like warrior can just stand on it for a few second.

They can… Not stand in them? No good player is going to stand in that crap even WITH immunities. Why would they waste those cooldowns on something repositioning could handle?

here’s the issue:

thief can’t get within melee range to punish dragonhunter because of traps (Test of Faith + Dragon’s Maw is GG in most cases) + greatsword totally being capable of killing us the second we’re in there, but at the same time we can’t even kite or outrange dragonhunter at all because of the insane damage and range advantage longbow has over shortbow.

the only way a thief can even hope to deal with a dragonhunter is by bringing p/p (which is mediocre in most other cases) and hoping the dh is trap-oriented rather than dh/medi dps.

the dh/medi dps matchup is impossible for thief (alongside almost every other marauder/beserker user) so when people move away from traps and back to meditations as the meta develops it’s essentially going to be like 2013 again where thief is totally hardcountered by guardian. nobody liked playing against medi guard in the first place but now they’re back and easier (but somehow stronger) than ever.

This is true on point where a DH is setting his traps but not when a DH is off point pew pewing and slowly trying to enter the team fight with his traps. If he’s pressured, you force him to not only place a trap off point but he’s also forced to use his F3 defensive utilities quicker.

How many melee centric players do you see pressuring a DH when he comes crawling in? Any d/d Thief, Rev, ccing Reaper, Core Guard medi, Mesmer, look to see if a DH guard is on Bow, exiting their base and walking up to the group fight?

If a Thief is on my team, I wouldn’t let him anywhere near mid fights unless I send him in to deliberately dodge roll to trigger traps, SR rez a teamate and/or I know he can pressure a DH without killing himself.

displacedTitan.6897:

Looks at ranged attacks

Looks at DH on point and knows traps are set

Runs onto point, dies

Cries on forum for nerf to DH.

OP is the same guy who threw out the words “tank”. Freudian slip, I think he comes from a different game considering his post count.

He is right about 1 thing though, a lot of newer players especially thieves, can’t handle DH in solo pvp. Yet, you can outplay them just as easily in any 1v1 fight. SoloQ are lacking experience players, coordination and team compositions.

Thieves calling themselves bunkers…. Team fighting 100% of the time…
Not roaming and backcapping because of the above?

Bunker teefs
I find it laughable that certain thieves are calling themselves bunkers as if they can perform better than Reaper, Guard, Rev, War, etc. Sounds a bit counter productive compared to their specific roles prepatch. Weren’t Thieves, notably, best at +1ing 1v1 fights and backcapping nodes? Did Daredevil give that role to Mesmers now, of which, can apparently roam and apply huge AoE team damages + cc now… of which, was the class’s core weakness prepatch?

Team fighting
I don’t understand why more Thieves throw themselves at a huge wall of Swords, Wells, bruiser Revs and w/e that golden ground fleece Engis have. I’ve never considered Thieves good Team vs Team fighters unless they come in, apply that 6k backstab and run out in a split second then glue themselves back to a target to apply pressure… Oh and shadow refuge + shortbow stealth is nice on a downed ally. But now Thieves are hopping around on point dealing what feels like worse single target burst damages and CC, only to sustain a bit longer in 1v1 or 2v2 fights. I’m just not understanding what i’m seeing.

I’ve argued with a ‘bunker thief’ in game and told him he was a counter to DH guardians. My notion is that a DH guard absolutely sucks when it comes to quick bursty classes like core guard JI + WW, a high burst 7k backstabing thief or teleporting power Rev; if that Guard is on bow with no traps set up I.E. coming to a point for the first time … he’s going to get downed fast by these power burst classes. Guardian’s are only powerful when they’re not getting pressured properly and they have time to set up their traps in a group. Oh, and necros can CC them all too easily – i’m practically forced to use Purification because their unblockable Fear is crazy.

Maybe I just have a false notion about Thieves in the current meta atm. Or, I’ve just keep getting matched up against Zerk thieves and ccing Necros who automatically places a target on my head in team fights or maybe I really do have a poor perception and have no idea what i’m talking about here.

OGDeadHead.8326:

…how does it work? Is it the devs themselves that plays around in pvp matches and find out that this needs to buffed/nerfed?

Or do they read the complaints here on the forums? Observe matches? Collect data in some other way? Or do they talk to some special individual top tier players about it? Are all classes equally represented, without bias?

Anyone in the know here about this?

ping @Josh Davis, for example.

It’s a bit of everything.

In order of highest priority listings to least priority.

1. Tournaments
Believe it or not, Devs look at tournaments as a strong foundation of where certain classes stand in TPvP. Mainly due to player synchronization – you just can’t consistently get these results in your average pug match. The skill cap is definitely higher here.

2. Forums
From bugs to repetitive posts saying to nerf something, Forum feedback is the best tool they have to research an potential issue. If a 20 page thread gets created by players asking for a change, addition, or a nerf to something, odds are, it’s going to happen. A prime example is RoF nerf, Turret Engi and Ele Might stacking and even GvG back when that thread became popular. All these came to light.

3. Obvious Power Creep
Ranger’s 10k pet damages and mitigation, Test of Faith’s 4procs in half a second when you cross the field, Engi passive sustains from a single trait. If it’s obvious for us, it’s obvious for the Devs too. That said, not everything is obvious, there’s a lot of l2p issues in soloq compared to Tournament play. This goes back to itemizing the two seperate gamemodes because what’s OP in soloQ pvp play may not be that big of a deal in tournament play. EU and NA both.

4. Their own data collaboration
I imagine they collect certain surveys in regards to X classes winning X Amount of games. I’d be surprised if they actually had a data pot that kept track of certain class specific traits and skills.

5. Casual Dev Team Players
Last but not least, the casual gamers within the company itself. There’s a constant collaboration of sorts within the small Anet community that are also wondering what’s OP and what isn’t. The above items are a bit more prioritized than the chit chat rumors that goes on during lunch hour.

The above is my experience of almost 2 years of watching Anet’s responses to the power creep. Sometimes they would buff or nerf something completely random like .5 seconds icd of a skill. It’s usually because they were literally observing a fight and the class would have performed better if it it lasted half a second longer.

It’s beyond amazing by how fast they’re currently responding where before, it was literally every 6 months before you saw any type of change – if that. Thankfully the game is successful enough where more money is put in the Tournament pot while at the same time, bugs and balance is of high priority. Expect a patch every two weeks or 2 ESL tournament matches for the sake of the meta shift and settle.

People are forgetting the powerful effects the boon duration healing amulet had on NPCs in Stronghold and Foefire Lord. It was ridiculous beyond belief.

There’s a bunker who can sustain himself and offer utility supportive abilities to allies, then there’s Minstrel amulet… it definitely had a more unhealthy effect in PvP’s gamemodes.

Val.7316:

I main a thief. You get zero sympathy from me. Frankly the power creep for the majority of classes needs to be brought back in line, not just for dh.

According to your class mechanic, Thief has no right to be in a team fight amongst every heavy AoE damaging classes. Your issue isn’t the DH in this thread, your issue is the role your profession has compared to everyone else. Should everyone else receive a huge nerf because thieves are no longer needed in their 1 specific roaming roles?

Yall’s 1 single role in PvP was an issue from the get go. It finally caught up to yall when that role was taken by rev, engi, and now mesmers. Are yall not asking your dev for this to improve in the current meta?

I rather see something done with our signets and spirit weapons :p

Tigaseye.2047:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Timiok.1048:

I mean, this part of the forums is just toxic and everywhere is mild.

no, i disagree.

the PvE forum (general discussions) is way more toxic than our this PvP forum.

seriously, have you any idea the amount of elitism PvE people raging whining just because the total amount of hero points to unlock an elite specialization in PvE is reduced from 400 to 250?

I know.

Sadomasochists only, in there, I think.

I don’t care if they’re masochistic, whatever floats their boats; but I do care if they try to insist that we all are.

For one thing, you can’t logically insist that other people become masochists, like you…

They either are, or they aren’t and trying to impose your own masochism onto them, against their will, amounts to sadism.

Which is (or should be) illegal.

Had more than enough of that weird type of behaviour, in WoW, TYVM.

Even if it’s “just” about a game, it’s borderline creepy.

Timiok.1048:

Why have we been doing the same exact thing for like 2 years? Heck, why do we come here to complain to other people, and not the devs themselves? We could have actual meaningful threads if we could directly contact them about the ‘balance’ issues.

I mean, this part of the forums is just toxic and everywhere is mild.

To be honest, the only thing that can be toxic is two players offering two different experiences based on their own point of view that may or may not be 100% accurate. These heated debates could originate from

• #1 The competitive realm they compete on.
  SoloQ meta is different than Team ESL play

• #2 Learn 2 Play elements from the player himself.
  including engagement strategies on the map

• #3 The build a particular person plays
  using a non-meta build for example

• #4 A one sided aspect that’s seen on one build from one class, while the other professions have 0 issues

The first three, in order, are the most common. It’s why they’re mentioned first.

A perfect example is a Thief calling burn guard OP when other classes typically have 0 issues with it. The thief is right in that this particular build is OP. But the build itself is not OP compared to other classes. These other classes think it’s a l2p issue as the thief shouldn’t should have played the map better from the get-go.

The majority of the QQ thread originates from solo players on unsyncronized teams. Considering the vast majority of players are new, #2 and #3 suddenly stick out like a sore thumb.

Highlie.7641:

It’s not the profession, it’s the foolish amount of CC they added.

a 14k-20k damage trap is nothing.
a 14k damage trap when you are perma stun locked is asinine.

Chrono / Reaper / Dh, all the ones they are calling OP are only that way because you guy’s went full _ on CC.

It’s time to add DR. or take away the crazy amount of stun’s taunt’s dazes, ect ect you keep adding that is destroying this games combat mechanics.

We went from “Noone likes to be stun locked”
To every elite spec getting CC, (when we had more then enough to begin with)

please get well soon arena net.

If you’re a class that lacks stunbreakers and/or stability then you better start roaming with a class/classes who can offer both.

If there’s a power creep, there’s almost always a counter reaction for it. If everyone is playing cc power burst builds in a pug match, why fight fire with fire? Bring supports for your group. If you’re on a team, you better get more syncronized.

When ever I try running purification, I get caught in a situation where a thief, rev, mes burst me down. As if everyone knows I didn’t have shelter >.<

But… some one made a thread about AoE damages being too stronk.

Mightybird.6034:

Revs are pub stompers. They are good in very low levels of play vs newer, unorganized players (all of their sustain requires YOU to attack them)

I could be wrong but I don’t think we’ll be seeing much of them at high levels of tourny play.

We’ll see in the next esl whether the abjured utilizes 2 again or not.

I have issues targeting individual players across the map and placing ground targeting skills. It could be that i’m just not used to it. I’ll give it another shot later.

As for regular camera function, I find it easier to use the improved Tab function and simply point click any target in a split second. I admit that I can’t instantly cast a ground target skill without first adjusting the ground target to where my mouse is… incredibly annoying.

It depends how you’re wanting to play – what you’re trying to achieve.

Group aoe blob fights – traps and burns
If you’re constantly in group AoE blob battles then you have no choice but to have vita so you don’t get 1 shotted. As fun as zerk/sinisters/rampage are, I wouldn’t recommend it. I think a DH needs at least 15k health (build editor may be wrong in stat vs in game stats)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJATSnsABVdilDBedC8DhlEi6aZDgEQe5j+rPL/6vBE-TFDFABLq6ADHBgiVawoaAA8IAKUFCBuAAIpMYYVQSSJGfKBrZ/hAAIAO6RP6RP6Rbn7cn7cn7sUA+p3C-w

Stats
Carrion amulet alone doesn’t offer the same performance like Marauders have with traps and all that vita from Carrion gear isn’t needed for a trap build. (again I think build editor is wrong, I just added vita gear to reflect the healthpool.)

So the ballpark I was aming for is around 15k health, about 2k less than Marauders amulet in pvp. The health can be adjusted accordingly depending on personal preferences.

This build is a power burn burst utilizing Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath. You’ll be doing respectable group burn damages with the bow as well as power damages so the build isn’t entirely a 1 trick poney.

Hammer is personal preference. I wanted to take advantage of CC and burst damages to the group.

Test of Faith will still hit pretty hard, while Procession of Blades will do even more damages in blob fights. Both utilizes power a bit more efficiently than pure condi stats.

Again, this is for burn builds who want to utilize burns and traps both. Feedback appreciated – yet to stress test the build.

Pure Burns – no traps
This is the only burn build that I like, though, I feel core guardian can perform better with virtues, valor and radiance in team fights.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRArd8elsAhmhY5QwaIwPEL+D1V4eBfgc4f+tvVAUB1JA-TJhAwAW3fgzJBYcZAAPBAA

It’s a burn on block build that’s mainly good in small skirmish fights, even certain 1v1 fights but underperforms in blobs compared to power DH. It’s an easier build to play considering the passive playstyle of burns on block.

To answer the title, because people asked for everything without realizing the effectiveness of traps in a team setting; the performance of DH as a whole. I’ve talking to a few people in ts3 prepatch and we agreed that DH will be borderlined OP. If not, top 5 on a team. So no the entire community didn’t exactly think DH sucked. The QQ was just loud.

Don’t think that the forums are always right. The only thing the community is right about, that’s reiterated constantly, is spec functionality. Now, the finished product is just darn fun to play. DH isn’t the best 1v1 build (definitely not) so this only contributed to the misunderstood prowess of the spec.

And that’s because a “DH Sucks!” post was created post patch. People still didn’t know how to play the spec properly…

For the record, the biggest item that makes DH strong is prestacking traps on a point, long enough for the icd to replace the triggered traps in a fight.

DH isn’t overpowered in higher tier pvp, I think we’re just right compared to the Scrapper, Mesmer, Rev and Reaper powercreep. It’s just the soloQ players not realizing the DH trap mechanic strategy.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

I mean, I suppose that you are right, but also consider the primary perk of this build(in teamfights or solos):
It deals damage really kittening fast. Not many other classes can output 40k damage in 10 seconds, and few classes can take that. Also in group fights, you will have lots of cover condis being applied by allies to negate cleanse

Not exactly true. The current power DH builds can dish out damages quicker on point than a burn guardian can. This is not taking previous trap placement into consideration. In fact, a DH power build can average 500k total damages each match. Even reach as high as 700k
(A guildy hit 1mil on power dh but he was playing against noobs >.>).

But your right, any high hitting ability can apply as much as 15 burn stacks from your F3 or Shelter alone and BBQ themselves. It’s just situational and you’ll likely wont pull it off in a team fight every time. Especially once people gets used to the meta. Right now a lot of players are unaware of condi guardians so you’ll have that to your advantage. For example, many dh guardians don’t run the Fortification trait so you’ll down almost any DH build 1v1, especially if you Shelter their procession blades

For PvP, power DH has better performance in team fights as oppose to cele, carrion or sinisters. This mainly has to do with the amount of team cleanses being thrown around as well as classes in general, have some type of self-cleansing traits or utilities.

Burn block builds can perform better vs certain classes compared to its power counter part. As an example, dh burn builds can beat a reaper, war, ranger and other power dh guards 1v1 where a power dh build variant would perform a lot less in these 1v1 scenarios. Mostly due to them avoiding the traps all together. And/or you didn’t place traps on point previously for these classes to engage you first – you engaged each other with no trap placement previously. IMO, it’s why power DH can be strong in pvp. Previous trap placement on point, then placing more traps once they proc to deal huge aoe damages.

Now, that’s not to say burn guards wont see players who are all zerks/marauders and have 0 condi cleanses or team AoE cleanses. You’ll just have issues against certain good players like Scrapper or Mesmers 1v1; more importantly, feeling lackluster in mid skirmish fights because of the power creep burst power damages and cleanses vs your burst burn on block/utility damages and survivability.

If it’s soloQ, you can really run what ever build you like as. Just be aware of your build’s weaknesses, power and condi both.

Zanyu.2017:

My background: While I don’t have an extensive knowledge of GW2 PvP I do have a high competitive background from other games.
WoW: Multi-time gladiator. 2800+ in 3v3. 2600+ in 5v5. 2500+ 2v2
2900+ RBG leader.
League of legends: Gold. (I guess it’s not too impressive. I like to watch the game more than I play. I’m terrible at MoBAs)
Diablo 3: Top 100 in season 1 for monk. (If this even counts as being competitive)

Zanyu.2017:

Aside from the combat system, I really don’t think it’s fair to blow off that transition of playing WoW to GW2 or vice versa.

Your competitive background will get you up to speed a whole lot quicker in GW2 PvP compared to other new players.

You are new to GW2, at least, new enough to post a politically incorrect class tier list for reasons that’s already been said. It’s why you’re receiving heat from certain players, you’re inexperienced in the GW2 PvP Meta and it shows.

Mechanics and performances in the GW2 PvP Meta is vastly different than WoW or Moba games. As a comparison, GW2 is like a rising tide, you never know how high a wave is going to be. The coming ESL tournament in 4 days is going to be a whole lot different than the last tournament. The meta can and will change drastically. Builds could reemerge out of no where on any class while others could get pushed out of meta. It’s inevitable.

For the record, DH does not cover all areas of PvP. Cele D/D Ele is 2x more mobile, tanks better on point and still pressures well in team fights amongst the power creep classes. DH right now are the Burn Guardians of post patch. Once people stop staying together in a group, learns DH trap utilities and actually pressures the DH then he’s suddenly not a big threat.

Revs can be an incredible strong bruiser class. Basically an Ele on steroids except he has reduced peel mobility. Then you have the Scrapper that will obliterate any DH build 1v1. DH is currently mid tier. A 5th at best and I definitely wouldn’t stack one on a team.

Players may be able to grind out their first few entry ranked games to reach medium tier but you’d have to maintain a solid winrate to hit the higher tier pips. I imagine a team would be needed. That or a team is mandatory, from start to finish, for League play.

Should be fun either ways.

Sure, lets just dumb down a trap because some one runs into it multiple times because that person lacks “counter play”.

I’ve surprisingly only gotten a couple newish players in unranked. That said… all the kiddos are asleep at midnight XD

I’m not sure how the mmr-matchmaking works now. I was under the assumption that it still averages a team’s mmr. Meaning, a veteran player with high mmr can be on a team of lower (newbie) mmr players.

I’ve been on a full noobie team against another noob team with maybe 1 veteran player. Couldn’t complain because it was technically a fair match…

Nerfs across the board is inevitable. There has to be some type of equalization, though, I really hope it’s not anytime soon.

The meta has yet to settle, higher tier teams are quick to adapt to the power creep whereas solo players are having a tougher time – calling qq in every direction.

It may be another week or two before they nerf certain items (meta still has to settle) but i’m curious if DH bursts really needs a look into.

In ESL, people weren’t exactly pressuring the Guardians as well as they should have. It wasn’t until the last couple of games where Abjured did just that to one of the teams; heavily applying pressure and CC to the Guards.

zone.1073:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Shield of wrath: 36s CD untraited.
Shelter: 30s CD
Renewed focus: 90s CD (72 when traited, which is usually the case).
Virtue/shield of courage: 70s CD. Both apply aegis, latter blocks projectiles for 3s.

What is this about blocking every 10s?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fragments_of_Faith

5 fragments = 5 aegis

One trait activates one aegis and one fragment trap on stun, so that’s 1 aegis + 5 more aegis. The active version of the trap is another 5 aegis. That’s 11 aegis from DH specialization, in addition to all the aegis from the guardian base spec.

And how many guards can actually use up all those Fragment Aegists? Disregarding 1v1 fights, it’s tough utilizing every Fragment drop in a skirmish fight unless the Aegis placement RNG places them right in front of you. Most of the time we’re having to have back track to grab the Aegis.

Especially if your Fragment Trait procs in addition to yours, how many of those 10 fragments do you think we can get before they dissapear? Again, not many if it’s a skirmish fight. Having to backtrack towards an enemy to grab the Fragments is counter intuitive for a Guardian trying to kite.

Are yall speaking for PvE? DH is looking incredible in ESL currently.

Supreme.3164:

Saiyan.1704:

I suppose the people who are having a good time are playing the game and not on the forums XD. But yea, I’m playing DH and having a blast.

At the moment, I can’t list any single class as OP because i’ve yet to consistently have trouble against anyone.. there seems to be a high skill cap for these spec classes so it’s way too soon to start calling nerfs.

@ sinject.4607 – If 5 out of 9 classes are op, why not buff the 4 classes that aren’t?

Wow…people mention that a guardian build is OP and you get an answer like “no build is OP atm and I enjoy playing dragon hunter”

The..

@ sinject.4607 – If 5 out of 9 classes are op, why not buff the 4 classes that aren’t?

This coming from @Sayan the same guard player who was asking huge nerfs to ele for months…that’s double standard for you

But wait there is more XDD

]I suppose the people who are having a good time are playing the game and not on the forums XD

This coming from the guy who was spending 3/4 of the day on the forum asking for huge nerfs on ele and visibly defending burning guard.

Not here to complain about anything…except your outrageous double standards

Hey hey! For the record, I asked for nerfs on Guardian’s PF as well. I’m not entirely bias!

I never said no build was OP, I said I haven’t met any OP builds as of yet. I’ve fought Reaper and felt it was a 50/50 fight. Same goes for Chrono and Scrapper. That doesn’t mean that every other classes perform the same against each other too.

“I suppose the people who are having a good time are playing the game and not on the forums”
When people QQ, you’ll see “Nerf X Build” or “PvP is Bad!” threads and hordes of players posting in these threads. This isn’t exactly the case with HoT. A lot of player’s genuinely like PvP. I mean, who here are consistently saying that a certain class is OP or that PvP is bad? That’s all that I meant.

I’m more curious if he legitimately thinks these players in his videos are good or he thinks these are excellent plays.

I suppose the people who are having a good time are playing the game and not on the forums XD. But yea, I’m playing DH and having a blast.

At the moment, I can’t list any single class as OP because i’ve yet to consistently have trouble against anyone.. there seems to be a high skill cap for these spec classes so it’s way too soon to start calling nerfs.

@ sinject.4607 – If 5 out of 9 classes are op, why not buff the 4 classes that aren’t?

F3 is already a powerful skill, I think it’s just fine, imo.

I’ve gotten as high as a 4.3k crit on LB#3 in Zerks (pvp) against another DH bow user. It’s definitely not a bad skill in that regards.

The only thing bad about LB#3 is its consistency.

I feel a player’s rune icon should be listed on the side of the player’s Specialization icon so we can know that player’s additional rune abilities.

I’m not entirely sure if certain rune CDs are required but I feel this is a necessity to ultimately differentiate build variants amongst players.

I’m finding DH incredibly fun.

There’s just more active playability. What I mean by that is, it’s going to take more skill to counter act another player. I’m not sure if this is the same for other classes but right now, I feel the Guardian has it down pat.

A lot of players may complain about certain items (I feel Stability trait needs to apply on ALL knock back effects but, that may make power builds OP…) but it may just be a Huge learning curve considering everything is still relatively new and there’s no true meta yet.

Regardless, I appreciate Karl and the other devs for not throwing in the towel when things started to heat up leading up to HoT, All the beta classes brainstorming and what not, I think everything, the final product, is excellent. I hope you all get a giant cookie cake.

Drussthelegend.2630:

Yes but will you play it in serious pvp. Thats the only question that matters. You are one of the best players on the planet when you face run of the mill players you can face roll with mostly anything. Is DH something you think you could play in a serious tournament?

I concur.

Any Power/Condi build can work in solo pvp – some builds may even be more OP than others but what really matters is whether or not the build will work against any competitive, highly synchronized, TPvP teams.

It’s going to take numerous theory crafting, dueling, and team vs team skirmish matches to figure out exactly which build under performs. I imagine it’ll take a good month or two until the new meta settles. Heck, I’m still trying to learn all the other specs; figuring out how to counter play them effectively!

To OP, DH is freakin’ awesome!

Oh and big fan, I want your entire team to sign my chest. I’m going to wax a special spot just for yall </3
#hairychesthairs #notcreepy

Rangelost.4857:

Necromonger.4970:

So it’s possible to use the elite specs in pvp without purchasing the expansion ? I’m asking, because I have gw2 uninstalled.

No, it is not possible to use elite specializations in PvP if you do not own Heart of Thorns.

No, you cannot choose to join matches with other players who do not own the expansion.

Yes, this does mean Guild Wars 2 is now technically Pay-to-Win.

If you can only play with other players who don’t own the expansion, then how can it be pay to win?

Silverkey.2078:

Saiyan.1704:

Silverkey.2078:

I personally think burn guards are fine. But it appears some can’t deal with it, so since they don’t want to learn to play, I was suggesting something that I don’t think won’t impact high tier players as much as low tier players. But I would personally keep things as they are.

Ele’s RoF is on a shorter cd (12s vs 28s) and it’s instant castable. That means that players would have a higher chance of crossing the field inadvertently. Considering PF has a 3/4 cast time, it gets interrupted all too easily.

That said, no single skill should have a burn burst of 12++ because some one crosses it multiple times. Yes, it’s a definite l2p but for newer players but the mechanic is still unhealthy for the inexperienced.

PF should stay the same with the exception that a single player can only receive 2 hits from PF. Whether that’s from the initial hit from PF or blocking the initial cast but crossing it twice – PF should give no more than 6 stacks of burns on a single player.

One should not forget that initially, purging flame is a condi cleanse, not a purely offensive skill. 3 stacks burning for 5s on a crossing is fairly insane.

We don’t use the skill for condi cleanses. And Absolute Resolution fills the role of AoE team cleanses so we don’t use PF for that either. It’s purely for damage purposes. If you nerf it down to 2 stacks like ele, we better be compensated with a reduced CD or some other insentive.

PF is not RoF. Don’t treat it like their the same skill.
3 burn stacks when you cross is reasonable. What isn’t reasonable is receiving over 6 burn stacks from PF.

Silverkey.2078:

I personally think burn guards are fine. But it appears some can’t deal with it, so since they don’t want to learn to play, I was suggesting something that I don’t think won’t impact high tier players as much as low tier players. But I would personally keep things as they are.

Ele’s RoF is on a shorter cd (12s vs 28s) and it’s instant castable. That means that players would have a higher chance of crossing the field inadvertently. Considering PF has a 3/4 cast time, it gets interrupted all too easily.

That said, no single skill should have a burn burst of 12++ because some one crosses it multiple times. Yes, it’s a definite l2p but for newer players but the mechanic is still unhealthy for the inexperienced.

PF should stay the same with the exception that a single player can only receive 2 hits from PF. Whether that’s from the initial hit from PF or blocking the initial cast but crossing it twice – PF should give no more than 6 stacks of burns on a single player.

nearlight.3064:

Cleric guardian is still really really strong, but lots of people I know don’t find playing the slow, point-holding, babysitter role to be all that fun. They want to be fast, mobile, and kill everything in sight, even though playing a support guard is logically a better choice for solo queue since most people don’t know how to outrotate it (which is pretty easy).

Starfall.6425:

I’m currently playing burn too, because during the first year of GW2 a condi guard wasn’t possible and I played mostly bunker. But yes, support guards really make my life hard and in a good team, against much condi it is pure gold.

^ Pretty much this.

Bunker Guardian really do perform better in Solo PvP in this current Burn Burst meta. But Burn Guard is just darn fun to play for several reasons, one being that Anet gave the guard community what we wanted (and other forums like the french, dutch, etc)

I switch to a bunker Guardian if my team are incredibly weak against conditions, especially if there’s more than 1 burst condi build.

Bazooka.3590:

Why celestial amulet is still in pvp?

Bazooka.3590:

Cele amu give 4480 stat points and berserker 4 example is only 3000 thats why.
And yes if u are a necro or an ele u are forced to use it cause u dont have anhoter build option if you wanna win a fight.
And yes there are kitten loads of unviable viable builds. Well not too much since the new trait system..

A bit of PvP history for you.

We had the Zerker meta. People were making 5 QQ posts a day because of all the “Instant burst 1 shot builds takes no skill” posts. Anet deemed it unhealthy (their exact words) and wanted to change the meta so they introduced Cele amulet.

Cele amulet used to have the same stat to stat ratio as other amulets. It got buffed because it was utterly useless on every class. Concequently, other classes got buffed such as Elementalists trait cleanses in the process of this change. We got the Ele – War – Engi Cele meta. (April 2014)

A recent patch changed the meta further, engi and war were no longer powerful on cele except Ele – Ele’s might stacks got nerfed shortly after burst mesmer did to put them in line, some what.

Look at the history. They put a lot of work in having the meta be where it’s currently at thanks to the QQ posts that zerk meta brought.

Team comps in the zerk meta era consists of condi 1v1 builds, a bunk guardian that every team had, and zerker builds
Team comps now, are made up of cele, zerks, marauders, soldiers and/or even cleric bunker sustains. You can even work in 1 carrion build in the group and that’s burn guard.
The meta is more diversed than it has ever been.

You realize a hambuild Power Guardian can almost 1 shot you and a thief in a team fight right? The reason why it’s not meta is because it’s just incredibly hard to synchronize on a pvp team effectively… that and there really isn’t anything else going for it. But hey just wait, Power DH will be on the same performance level as a Burn Guardian as their traps are essentially the same as JI and PU utility condi damages. Power Guardians needed more damaging utilities for sure instead of the same medi sustain variant.

We try to burst you before you enter stealth… but you will utterly rek shop when we miss this initial burst attack because you stealth first.

You will definitely die if we join that teamfight because all of your cds will be used up. But that could be said on any class, on any build. In fact, Thieves and Mesmers are notorious for it.

I still think your 1v1 capabilities are OP. >.>