Guild Wars 2

Thanks Firebird!

I’ll definitely add you in game!

Just wanted to give a quick shoutout here incase I miss anyone!

If any newer players are looking to learn the fundamental basics of Structured PvP, I can definitely speed up the learning curve for you! Especially if you’re one of the players who just enter sPvP to do the dailies, it can definitely be more rewarding when you’re actively engaged in Unranked or Ranked PvP matches.

I am a Guardian main with nearly 3k pvp games played. So even if you’re a non guardian main, I can still teach you PvP fundamentals, such as, roaming (especially mesmer and thief!), strategic engagements, team compositions, even builds that are and aren’t viable.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/PvP-NA-Coaching-Newer-Players/first#post5623311

The original post link above has additional info including my contact information, best time to reach me in-game, as well as, other players who can multiclass and help you further!

I’ll try to answer any questions but please PMing me or posting in the original thread linked above.

Cheers!

Just wanted to give a quick shoutout to the WvW forum!

If any newer players are looking to learn the fundamental basics of Structured PvP, I can definitely speed up the learning curve for you! Especially if you’re one of the players who just do the PvP dailies, it can be more rewarding when you’re actively engaged in Unranked or Ranked PvP.

I am a Guardian main with nearly 3k pvp games played. So even if you’re a non guardian main, I can still teach you PvP fundamentals, such as, roaming (especially mesmer and thief!), strategic engagements, team compositions, even builds that are and aren’t viable.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/PvP-NA-Coaching-Newer-Players/first#post5623311

The original thread link below has additional info including my contact information, best time to reach me in-game, as well as other coaching players who specializes in other classes.

I’ll try to answer any questions but please PM me or posting in the original thread linked above.

Cheers!

Azure The Heartless.3261:

witcher.3197:

Buff thieves so they don’t need shortbow? You mean, buff thieves without touching shortbow, so you’d give them more mobility and utility, while they can just choose to keep shortbow too because they have no reason not to?

Amazing ideas so far.

A sustain buff (Namely, the one we were promised but is yet unimplemented) would allow thieves to fight more effectively on point and might allow some newer builds to resurface that aren’t focused on “Get to point when it is uncontested, leave when someone comes.”

Maybe that will get some people to look at not taking shortbow, especially with DD coming up. Maybe not. fact of the matter is that at it stands now, backcap mule isn’t working.

Erzian.5218:

I win a 1v1 if I kill my opponent and I lose it if I die. Thief doesn’t die unless you over-commit but can still kill a variety of builds.
If you insist on taking nodes into account then I win the 1v1 if I can contest the node and as my (thief) mobility is higher than yours (non thief) I can contest it by simply being there before you. I already won. I can then just go somewhere else and as it takes longer to cap than to decap I have succeeded. I can even contest it by being invisible for a big as you then have to guess whether I go to your node or not and either way, I can do the opposite and win again.
Either you see 1v1 as contesting nodes at which thief is very good due to its mobility (which becomes obvious as in any top team brings one for that reason) or you see it as fighting, at which thief is very good as its worst match up is a draw. It you mix up both you are purposely making up a situation that makes thief look bad but by doing so you prove absolutely nothing as everyone can make up a large variety of situations in which class/build xy is bad. If you want to be good in that particular situation then you might be playing the wrong class, if you want to have what you can do now+be good in that situation then you are simply asking to be overpowered as thief has had and still has its place in the meta with a higher certainty than any other class.

Contesting =/= capping a point before someone else.

The very core of the issue is that because thief is good at sitting on unattended points, it should not be allowed to spec in such a way that allows it to challenge other classes while they are on the point.

I frankly don’t care how it’s done. What I’m concerned with is that I cannot be an effective thief in SPVP unless I perform that one task, however entertaining players may think it to be.

Being trapped in that one role is stupid. I don’t care about -why- we’re there or being able to instantly devour 1v1s because of the nature of my class. Damage is in a good place, but there’s no option to do anything outside of what people are touting as apparently proper thief gameplay (namely, cap and run), because thieves are not equipped to deal with the recently scaled damage output of the other classes.

And that’s the conversation this thread should be having instead of blatantly calling the class bad without awknowledging the fact that the class is used effectively in almost every top PvP team.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Saiyan.1704:

Bad thieves are bad in pvp because they concentrate more on being in team fights and 1v1ing classes, instead of roaming to +1 and rotating the map to backcap nodes. If you don’t like that class, talk to your dev on Daredevil, surely some one must have talked about expanding the Thief role.

See thief wiki for dev intent of the class.

The Devs also said, prepatch, that Guardians were “known for their burns”. … this was prepatch where everyone was Shout Bunker meta or Medi Hammer.

Thieves were also a lot better in 1v1 prepatch but not all that great post patch.

The community defines what the class is meant for. In this case, the Devs are only right about Thieves single target burst. Not about Thieves Role in PvP.

ZenMa.3976:

Dragon rank/ played only thief almost 1k matched.

Can’t fight 1vs1 with any class cuz thief will lose mostly.

Thief can actually stalemate almost any 1v1 fight. Except he has to leave point to do it. So it’s counter intuitive for any thief to 1v1 unless his teamate comes to +1. If you want to 1v1, join a dueling servers

ZenMa.3976:

Therefore, Thief must run. Run Run Run. Just do decap or +1 fight. <<< other class can do this same. So, what is the point of playing thief in SPvP?? Just res in stealth?

Thieves can do this so well, a good Thief can literally snowball the map. It’s why 99% of teams has at least 1 Thief. No other class can do it better.

ZenMa.3976:

Oh, that’s freaking coooooooooooooooooooooool. That is Only one reason to play thief.

Yea, probably. So instead of complaining that Thieves are bad, instead talk about changing their roles in TPvP since that’s what you’re QQing about.

Bad thieves are bad in pvp because they concentrate more on being in team fights and 1v1ing classes, instead of roaming to +1 and rotating the map to backcap nodes. If you don’t like that class, talk to your dev on Daredevil, surely some one must have talked about expanding the Thief role.

Actually oRNG ran a terrible burn guardian. I’m curious how he would have performed with a different burn burst build entirely. (that wasn’t a burn burst build)

Bunker Guardians don’t necessarily perform better, there’s just less room for error in TPvP against players who don’t know how to manage their sustains and supports in mid. It has been proven that you can out rotate them or syncronize burst them down (it was more difficult prepatch). Me and any other CC + Power class (notably power wars) can down a Bunker Guard reletively fast in mid skirmish fights… then again, this was just casual Ranked matches.

In spite the aoe syncronized team cleanses in tpvp, I’m not impressed with burn Guardians in tournament play. They really should be performing more than i’ve seen.

Good Tofu.9376:

Saiyan.1704:

Nova Stiker.8396:

DotA 2 is one of the most balanced MMOs/Moba’s there is. If it wasn’t for that, Dota 2 would have fallen to the League of Legends dust.

But you forgot the most important rule: ARENANET STOP TREATING GW2 LIKE IT’S AN ESPORT. Not a single one of my friends takes Guild Wars 2 PvP seriously because it has so many problems with bugs, balance and exploits.

You cannot become a sport without a supporting community, period.

And GW2 was one of the most balanced RPGPVP games there is. Arguably, it still is.

LoL is 5x easier to play in comparison. They have numerous more characters but they’re either tank, power, or support. Nothing complicated about it other than item buying (dota) and the usual forest roaming and team strat rotations therein.

Your friends can’t take GW2 PvP seriously because it’s too hard – too many meta builds with different fundamentals in each. If it was easy, tell your friends to make a team and win $400,000. There are no bugs or power creep preventing that (until hot releases :p)

Your logic is flawed. You are equating a convoluted UI/rules/gameplay system with competitiveness. This cannot be further from the truth.

GW2 is convoluted – too many animations/particles that blur the screen, skill spamming with low CD’s (causing way too much screen frenzy), and skills being balanced in conjunction with PvE (ANet is NOT a PvP-only developer). These factors combine to make GW2 PvP borderline unwatchable from an observer’s standpoint, cause a lot of slowdown on lesser rigs, and generate a greater dichotomy between “Meta” and “Non-meta” builds (offering less game diversity).

The key note to remember is that all of these points detract from GW2’s PvP userbase. The userbase and # of people playing is key to the competitiveness level of any game/sport/activity.

Here’s a real life example: the aforementioned principle is why the game of Soccer is more valued and competitive worldwide than, say, the game of Darts, Bowling, or a more complex game such as Rugby. There are simply way more people playing and watching Soccer.

GW2 PvP is not to the point where LoL, DotA2, Heroes of the Storm, Hearthstone, CS:GO, etc. are. GW2’s userbase is not nearly as big and thus the game is not as competitive.

This, in a nutshell, is why people don’t take GW2 PvP seriously. It’s not because it is “too hard.” Its simply because it is difficult to watch (too much screen clutter), its interface is too clunky (way too many spammable skills), and the game isn’t dedicated to balancing on a pure PvP scope (huge dichotomy between “meta” and “non-meta.” These combine to make its userbase too small and thus nobody takes it seriously on a competitive level.

PS – ANet is making some good strides though – putting in a larger prize pool for its tourneys and reducing animation effects and screen clutter with the HoT release is definitely a start.

Well put. Though I don’t have an issue with clutter or watching tournament play, I can agree that others could, especially in skirmish plays and gw2 may not be as easily readable compared to other games.

Nova Stiker.8396:

DotA 2 is one of the most balanced MMOs/Moba’s there is. If it wasn’t for that, Dota 2 would have fallen to the League of Legends dust.

But you forgot the most important rule: ARENANET STOP TREATING GW2 LIKE IT’S AN ESPORT. Not a single one of my friends takes Guild Wars 2 PvP seriously because it has so many problems with bugs, balance and exploits.

You cannot become a sport without a supporting community, period.

And GW2 was one of the most balanced RPGPVP games there is. Arguably, it still is.

LoL is 5x easier to play in comparison. They have numerous more characters but they’re either tank, power, or support. Nothing complicated about it other than item buying (dota) and the usual forest roaming and team strat rotations therein.

Your friends can’t take GW2 PvP seriously because it’s too hard – too many meta builds with different fundamentals in each. If it was easy, tell your friends to make a team and win $400,000. There are no bugs or power creep preventing that (until hot releases :p)

Alent.4780:

Easy to get discouraged considering we haven’t heard from Karl for weeks…. Meanwhile, Roy is actively engaged in the Rev forums, last post was at most 2 days ago.

It is sad that only Roy seems to have time to chat

It’s not Roy, it’s the Rev. Rev has priority atm for obvious reasons.

Schurge.5194:

Burns are not just apply and forget, the Guardian needs to know the class they are fighting and if they do it may very well seem like they are applying an ungodly number of burns but in reality that is not what is happening. In the case of a Necromancer a Guardian will try to bait one of the two guaranteed transfers and then blind / block / shield the second. In the case of other classes they interrupt the cleanse or tease out the burns to get you to waste a cleanse on a stack of four burns when they have nine waiting to be applied afterwards.

In group fights it is hard to keep track of these things… especially when they coordinate CC’s with their team mates (something a Necromancer can’t do much to deal with at all). In a 1v2 I can wait for 11 stacks of burn and then one shot the Guardian’s ally with a transfer… however in a 4v4 you need to cleanse those burns ASAP and that is where burn Guardian’s really shine because you can’t keep track of how many burn bursts they’ve done in the past fifteen seconds or if you have a blind, etc.

I apologize for the patronizing tone of this post… while I tend to be sarcastic and trollish in this instance it isn’t intended but I don’t have a better way to word this.

Finaly some one who knows the class.

There are two different condi guard players roaming around in spvp. The ones who spam their high cd skills and hope it doesn’t get cleansed, while the better condi guards can out-play classes like the signet necro – even in tough skirmish mid fights where we know our burns could kill our own team. These burn guardians are also getting better at other encounters, sometimes demolishing mediocre casual pvp players.

There are still more bad condi guardians than good ones but that’s not to say something doesn’t need fixing. I just don’t want the class to be absolutely useless in TPvP where we already have trouble against these high tier team compositions. Not to mention 1v1 situations – burn guardians are still not the best in this realm in TPvP play.

Ara.4569:

I believe that shortly after HoT, a balance pass will shave condi, cleanse, burst and active defense. Power creep has never been healthy, and there’s already too much of everything.

Actually HoT is bringing in more classes that can manipulate conditions. There’s going to be less burn guards and more everything else. We’ll just have to wait and see what’s trully OP and what’s just right.

Schedule Change

M – F
7:30PM – 12:00AM CST (central time)

Will revert back to 10am – 2pm on the 26th

Thanks messiah!

If you have the right quality mower and very resilient grass, then burning suddenly isn’t strong at all.

But hey, the majority of people are running cheap crappy overheating mowers and their grass is dry as heck and catches on fire easily… of course they’ll both agree that burns are an issue.

/thread

Sunshine.5014:

So, Nos had consistently won most of his 1v1 since the time Necro was considered the bottom class. With your philosophy, we should balance based on what people can do with the class. That mean we shouldn’t have buffed my Necro at all? In fact, it should have been nerfed?

/cringe with those forums warriors, both you and Saiyan.

Aren’t forum warriors suppose to have high egos and insult or something? I just throw out some common sense and sometimes politically correct people….

Sunshine.5014:

If you think Ele has too much sustain, get your Fire Cele Ele in and duel with my Mesmer. Let’s see how much sustain you have.

Mesmers can’t bunk and hold a point like a Cele D/D Ele can… their sustains are incomparable. The only reason a Mesmers can even beat an Ele is because Mesmers are 1v1 powerhouse builds…. When they +1 a mid fight, they lack considerably beyond that initial mid stealth burst spike. The mesmer will get pushed off point their after, unless they kite around Foefire mid. Even still, their sustains are not nearly as efficient as Ele is on point.

Sunshine.5014:

Reviewed the list of threads cakeonroof posted. You and Saiyan were the biggest forum warriors claiming Ele were too strong because of burning. Now that Ele burning was needed, you switched to ask for healing nerfed. I’m pretty sure after that you will continue to ask for mobility nerf too, since you don’t seem to be able to deal with Ele no matter how easy it is to deal with them.

I thought I corrected this misconception on cakeonroof’s post.

Lets take a step back, I’ve said numerous times in prepatch that Ele sustains comes from their mobility. Their damage to sustain ratio was over the top.

Sources: Jan 2015

Below, I’ve even said that burns damages were not the culprit. This was after patch, and before all those Burn QQ posts.

Source: August 2015

“In the past 2 WTS tournaments, Cele Ele D/D have performed the same.”

• Kings of conquest mode 1v1’s
• Extremely resilient to the point of being a tank in 1v1 and 1v2 scenarios
• Very few weaknesses compared to other classes
• Moderate team supports when syncronized
• Able to leave immediately in clutch situations
• Great mobility

“Burns haven’t played that big of a role in WTS/ESL tournaments compared to what Eles already were. Those QQ’s are from solo, unsynchronized teams running in and out of fire fields, but that’s not to say human errors don’t occur. 6 to 9 burn stacks from just RoF can still happen, it’s just rare seeing it. All the same, it adds salt to the wound,”

My posts regarding Ele Burns was mainly in reference of how RoF acted on unaware, unsyncronized players. Like I said to Cake, the RoF changes were still absolutely needed.

Again, a misconception on your perception of what I said about Ele’s Burns.

Gav.1425:

I suggest you start a YouTube channel and record your coachings to post them as public tutorials. You’ll get a lot more knowledge out there into the Mists that way.

There’s quite a lack of GW2 PvP stragedy and game break-downs out there.

Thanks for the advice!

At the moment, it’s easier for me to just go knee deep and play with players that i’m coaching, telling them where to rotate and why. It can make for a great learning experience when players are getting hands on rotational advice.

Most of my coaching is in relation to class specific or topic specific so, I can’t exactly make a generic tutorial that touches on what everyone wants to know, more importantly, what they need to know for their class or build setups.

But i’ll definitely try to make a generic rotation video some day. So far this video is the best one i’ve come across.

Hey!

I can definitely tell you in game if you’d like. We can even use team speak and have a more in depth convo about Guardian! Click on the Coaching link in my sig for additional info if you’re interested.

Sorel.4870:

Saiyan.1704:

One person’s fortune is another’s misfurtune.. i guess?

You had a BBQ night?

Every night!!! ^.^

For the people who messaged me, let me know the the hours yall get on so I can try to be on at the same time to schedule something in. I already added yall to my friends list in case we find each other in game.

Cheers!

infantrydiv.1620:

I already did this with max size norns with the mustache. We all played PU and played in a tournament. All the names were like I i iI i Il l. There might be a vod of it somewhere :p

….it was YOU. t(-.-t)

If it means reduced damage then no, the root on it is fine.

One person’s fortune is another’s misfurtune.. i guess?

Novuake.2691:

Saiyan.1704:

Engis are strong since the last buff they received (practically impossible to condi burst them, I tell ya!)

It’s like you don’t even play the same game as the rest of us.

I should have been more specific. I was refering to the increased condi cleanses from their Elixirs and Regen in general. That was recently changed and it shows in the dueling servers.

I wasn’t talking about the Meta Soldier Rifle builds where anyone can burst down anyone in TPvP skirmish scenarios… the Engi the OP is refering to still isn’t an issue.

Absolutely!

100% NA though, hope that wont be an issue! Edited the title.

I’m willing to coach everyone and anyone who is new to GW2 PvP! Teaching the basics of the basics, from what PvP stand for, to strategical map rotations, all the way down to developing your very own team composition; whether that be for casual play or on a competitive level!

Main – Guardian
I can teach any Guardian player meta builds, build rotations, proper map rotations and strategic engagements against your ‘soft counters’. Even setting up important skill keybindings on your keyboard or mouse.

Beyond Guardian main experiences
I have Legendary Champion title (1,093,500 Rank points), 10 of 10 tiers from Champion Brawler and 42 of 42 tiers from Conqueror so I can definitely give non Guardian players a jump start into TPvP! Or intermediate players who have been playing for a couple weeks to a couple Months. The average learning curve for the game is 1 Month to 3!

I can definitely teach map awareness to all Thieves and Mesmers who need further help on rotations, team support and focus targeting properly.

So if you’re constantly getting yelled at in AspectGG or Pug Quest, I can most definitely help you as an individual. If you’re a premade looking for an outsider to coach your intermediate team, the doors wide open!

Available Coaching Hours (subject to change)

Mon – Friday
7:30PM – 12:00AM Central (cst)

Saturday – Sunday
Open for scheduling

Contact Info
Forum PM (primary contact)
Game PM (secondary)

Your Preference of Communication: TS3, Skype, Line, Discord etc.
If you prefer in-game map chat only, then that’s fine too but I won’t be able to coach efficiently during games.

I challenge every veteran player to help coach new GW2 players. Posting your PvP strengths that you can offer, as well as, the class’s you main and overall PvP experiences.

• Your Class/Multiclass Main

• PvP Experiences

• Hours Most Likely Able to Coach

• Contact Info

No specific outline is needed other than what you can coach, the hours you’re most likely able to be on, and the best method of contacting you.

Cheers!

Warriors Recognize Rampage beyond the first 6k crit attack that pops up in your screen. If it takes big numbers to realize a Rampage warrior is…. Rampaging… you have bigger issues.

Engis are strong since the last buff they received (practically impossible to condi burst them, I tell ya!) but a competent team can still take them down in a skirmish fight. Strong yes, but they’re no Ele who has sustains, tanks, and mobility, all rolled up in one.

Mesmers are still only strong in 1v1, and when they come to +1 burst a target on point. That’s not to say their win button (stealthing for days and bursting right out of stealth) doesn’t need added counter play. It’s a bit lame. They’re still not all that great on node skirmish fights unless that node is Mid’s Foefire.

Obtena.7952:

I think the part of the problem with ‘misdirected changes’ on things, like shield, etc…

Heyheyhey, I absolutely love the Shield changes! If it’s too OP, simply increase the CD or reduce the bubble uptime. The utility usages with the Shield will still be there <3

morrolan.9608:

hharry.1967:

There’s also black desert going out for the NA-Europe beta

The PvP in Black Desert is extremely poor.

Yup. That hype train was a short trip.

cakeonroof.7385:

Well duh 99.9999% of pvpers are not high tier tourney players so why the heck would I speak on their behalf?

Most of the stuff that happens in tourneys don’t apply to the matches I play. Ranked Solo Q.

Unlike most people here, I’m not delusional to think that I play in the same level as they do. Most of the QQ threads were about burning. And yes they are from solo queue ppl and yes their opinions mean more to me because I can relate with them.

Since you apparently know Ele sustains were the culprit and you apparently know that all the complaints were from SoloQ players, why even say what you said?

We never said you were speaking on their behalf. We were merely correcting this statement,

“The complaints about eles before the RoF and might nerf was about sustain and not burns is absolutely incorrect on every possible level.”

To further politically correct you, we complained about Ele Sustains waaayyy before the June 23rd patch. It’s not like this wasn’t mentioned before. It most certainly was, multiple times.

You can teleport any channeling spirit weapons to summon it immediately on a person. Not very useful for the sShield though.

I particularly like how you can use Merciful Intervention on the Shield to get away. It just isn’t exactly useful because Shield’s Command will take the shield in the middle of the fight… so that’s a bit counter intuitive there.

I would love it if sShield tracked the Guardian (not enemies). There have been many instances where I want the Shield to follow me as I try to get in melee range like a Power Guardian should. Unlike DH who keeps his distance, I feel Spirit Weapons should stick to the Guardian at all times instead of yoloing it. That would make for some fun core guardian builds, assuming spirit weapons attacked faster in compensation.

cakeonroof.7385:

Either you people have no integrity or you forget REALLY fast. To tell me that the complaints about eles before the RoF and might nerf was about sustain and not burns is absolutely incorrect on every possible level.

This is what the pvp forum thought of d/d eles before the RoF nerf and after the June patch. Bear in mind that this is only as far back as 2 months ago or about 1/3 of all complaints about elementalist BURN OPness

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Burning-Fire-trait-Does-this-bother-no-one

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balance-Cele-DD-Ele-Please

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Do-something-with-this-insane-burning/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stop-with-the-QQ-for-ele-nerf/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-ele-d-d-nerf-confirmed/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-stacking-officially-seen-as-an-exploit/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalists-Balance-Celestial

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-A-more-focused-fix

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Another-Balance-Path-Ele-Still-Supreme

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Is-Ele-Base-Damage-Too-High

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Issues-with-the-elementalist-Fire-line/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Wars-2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/as-an-ele-i-m-sick-of-fire-line

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalist-and-Ring-of-Fire/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-ele/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-from-a-Ele-player-perspective/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Before-you-nerf-D-D-ele/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/DD-Ele-Burns/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Not-Another-Ele-Post

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Nerf-After-WTS

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Realistic-way-to-nerf-Ele

Lets not confuse things here.

All the complaints are from SoloQ and what SoloQ players perceived in Unranked/Ranked PvP. Honestly, the change to RoF was still needed for these Solo QQing players but that’s my own opinion on the matter.

The competitive players in high tier pvp – Team vs Team or ESL / WTS tournaments, would tell you that it’s entirely Ele’s Sustains in Team fights that makes them OP. That 4 Ele comp didn’t win a tournament off of their damages alone. It was because of their incredible mobility to rotate the map and bunk a point.

Phantaram himself said that the Might stacking nerf was good enough but… he’s Phantaram. He doesn’t want his class to perform worse than it already is. Phanta and Wakkey set the bar for the Ele class. I’d hate there to be a nerf that completely ruins it because I think they’re incredible players.

glaphen.5230:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

glaphen.5230:

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This is literally the last time I’m gonna bother commenting on one of these threads that’s claiming condition builds are “way too strong”, “OP” or what ever other kind of ridiculous dribble people want to spew.

Condition builds are not OP, the stupidity of the average player is. You laugh at someone who cries Thief is OP because it two shot them on their zerk amulet no block, no invuln build the same way you laugh at the person who cries conditions are OP on their no cleanse, no immunity build.

When I go in to a match I consider all possibilities. I don’t bring only blocks for physical damage while not bothering to bring any cleanses. And if I don’t bring one or the other (or some variation of it) I’m sure to be extra careful around that which I am weak to.

Burning Guardians are a bit over the top right now. Far from OP but if they catch you unprepared (in the middle of a fight for example) most times you are toast. If they have their burn stacks adjusted, there will be no condition builds that are anywhere near OP, at least in PvP.

I will die at least 60% of the time to a condition build if I am not a full offensive power build. I will die about 10% of the time if I am. -> When I fight a condition Mesmer on my zerk amulet Warrior they die before they can wear me down. When I fight one on my Soldier amulet Warrior they have enough time to stack conditions and I don’t have enough cleanses to manage them. You know why that’s okay? Because a bunker shouldn’t be able to bunk against everything.

Can you kitten off with your ridiculous dribble. Hurr condition build dies to a zerker Warrior somehow even though they have 2 working dodges but somehow they don’t on soldier even though if they were that kittened they would have died from the same Hundred Blades on the soldier. There is no way in hell anyone decent dies to a zerker Warrior with a condition build in a 1 vs 1, especially a Mesmer, the king of 1 vs 1.

“Condition builds are not OP, the stupidity of the average player is.”

So the stupid Mesmer somehow dies to a class that can only do damage against someone not moving i.e stunned, dies with one of the lowest cooldown semi-stun break in the game on his weapon and a free stun block of the telegraph hammer on the other one with an instant blind stealth on his torch.

Not sure why Mesmers were even brought up in this conversation… Mesmer is a 1v1 class by default. Power and Condi builds are both OP on this class in a 1v1 situation. Power is 3x more effective in TPvP than Condi is… on this class.

What separates Mesmers from other Condition built classes is that Condi Mesmers do significantly worse in team vs team skirmish scenarios because of how lacking their AoE conditions are. What’s sad is, even Condi Trap Rangers have more AoE condi applications than Mesmers. Condi Mesmer is basically the prepatch version of Condi Guardian.

Back on Topic
Condi doesn’t work as well in TPvP but it’s OP in Solo PvP. Fix what’s OP about Condi in Solo PvP and it’s fixed.

Lets be realistic here and realize exactly why yall’s suggestions wont work.

• Reducing damage but increasing condition duration? This will only hurt condi builds in tournament play and render them useless because people are already cleansing conditions efficiently.
  Then you have that one random solo team full of guardians/ele/necro (two Sig Necros alone will soft counter any condi team composition) that already counters condition builds. The game is a bit more Rock-Paper-Scissors than you think, sadly.

• Condi can now crit? Wont change a thing… 10 stacks of unique conditions all criting at once = new condi burst meta.

• Buff Thieve’s condition cleansing because every teef i’ve come across thinks conditions are OP? Don’t expect to have 11k health + 7k backstabs without having a weakness.

• Prioritize incredibly high condi stacks I’m leaning towards this idea because it just makes sense. If I have 10 unique single stacks of conditions on me and that single 8 stacks of Torment, why should I cleanse that 1 condi stack just because it luckily proc after some one’s condi burst? GW2 promotes active play. A player who saves his condi cleanses for a condi burst is considered active play.

I understand why condi cleanses is prioritized in this way… but in 3 years, it isn’t exactly common practice strategy for a condi build to cover his condi bursts with a minor condition proc afterwards, of which, is usually a rng stack of blind or bleeds. Maybe for 1v1 fights but definitely not Team vs Team skirmish fights.

It may hurt the high tier pvp condi meta (lel, that 1 condi class… :/ ) but help the casual, minority, players in soloQ.

TL;DR
Conditions (along with power builds) were changed to be a bit more bursty in PvP. Cleansing Conditions should be prioritized to compensate this new bursty playstyle.

Prioritize the conditions with the highest damage coeficient. If that coeficient isn’t there on any condition, the usual First-in cleansing priority would take effect.

Photinous.4628:

And when it’s not 5 man vs solo, it’s 3+2 premade vs 5 solo.

Half the time it’s that. I can’t remember having a full solo team vs a premade… that said.. i’ve been in a premade where it was us vs a duo and solo comp.

There just isn’t enough premade teams throughout a 24 hour day for premades to fight other premades 100% of the time.

I rather have 4 patches a year that was 100% about fixing bugs.

There were several flagship games that came out since GW2 was released, all were supposed meant to blow GW2 PvP and other MMO games out of the water. They didn’t.

I’m not a sheep that follows the hype herd. I think I’ll switch over when the game comes out for NA and it’s legitimately better.

Knighthonor.4061:

and especially with you nerfing the reward tracks, we going to have the same situation that game went through and their developers admitted openly to regretting heading in that design direction.

You mean the disgustingly over simplified build and skill direction that a 2 year old could understand? Or that game’s constant nerf and buff of classes because they fail at game balances?

Good Tofu.9376:

Also, please keep in mind that DotA only had a few thousand players when it first started….even towards the end of DotA 1.

DotA2 started with a few thousand as well…and when Valve pumped 1 million of its own money into the International 1’s prize pool, it wasn’t nearly as popular as it is today.

Now, prize pools of 15-20 million are being completely funded by the community and Valve is rolling in the dough. DotA is also a F2P game….Valve makes most of its money off of cosmetics being sold within the game.

Thanks for that. Perhaps it’s not as crazy as it seems, assuming your information is correct.

Black Box.9312:

Saiyan.1704:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re miss informed. We designated the Guardian as the healer class because there was no other class around to fulfill that role. No one, not the Devs or Lore, said Guardian was the healing class. So yes, Guardian was never meant to be the healer class.

Yes, building a guardian based on damage mitigation is one of the many ways to build them, but not seeing the obvious connection to healing that they have is just simple delusion.
I’d go on and on about all the supportive healing that guardians have, but BlackBox was already courteous enough to list most of it, although you shrugged it off as him being “misinformed*”. Guardians also used to have the best healing ability in the game until it was more or less stolen by druids.
As for the lore, I think the rather large connection that guardians have to monks really says enough.

It’s fine if you really love the kind of guardian that you’re playing right now, but your persistent and delusional insistence that guardians were never meant to be able to be built as healers is extremely obnoxious and you should really stop.

I’m not being obnoxious as if i’m flaunting my ego around. This is about the very representation of what Guardian was as a class before patch; what the certain people portraited the Guardian as being, to the current evolution to what the Guard truly is.

I’m not in any illusion that our biggest group healing aspect, Tomb of Courage, was removed so the Druid would appear as the game’s group healer class. It definitely wasn’t all about the asthetics of Tombs themselve. I could look at other class mechanics and say “oh, it doesn’t fit” or “it needed a change”. They wouldn’t have touched Tombs at all if it wasn’t for the Druid spec. That’s the Devs covering for what their intentions really were.

My point is, yes, Guardian was played as the Healing class because it was a group healing class. But that isn’t the core lore – foundation – of the Guardian himself.

He is a soldier who damages first, protects second and heals third.

Druid is a healer first, CC second and everything else falls under third.

I never said that Guardian was the healer. I said that Guardian is a healer. Big difference.

This game was built on the premise that roles would not be class-restricted. Yet here we are with a perfect example to counter it. If I need a healer, why would I ever want to take a Guardian when I could just take a Druid instead? What good would bringing Sanctuary be if a Ventari Revenant can do virtually the same thing on a much greater scale with much, much less downtime?

It’s pretty evident that we were given a set of healing skills and traits with the idea in mind that a player could create a healing-focused build for a Guardian. This does not imply any sort of exclusivity. The problem with it no longer being exclusive only comes from the fact that these skills are now all rendered near pointless, because there’s no reason to even have so many allied healing skills on a Guardian when you can just bring someone else that will inevitably be better when it comes to providing allied heals.

So why do we even have these skills anymore if they’re the least effective option? If Anet truly wants the Guardian to be objectively inferior at allied healing, then that’s one thing. But if that really is the case, then they need to replace skills and traits meant for a healing build with other things that will help push the Guardian closer towards what it IS supposed to be.

I absolutely agree with you there. Our certain team healing abilities needs to be rethought or removed entirely. I feel we are limited because of these certain aspects in place, like team wide regen with sig elite and the trait that gives allies F3 regen. Or not increasing our base health pool because of traits like Zealous Blade… but I suppose it differentiates us from being facetanking Warriors.

I don’t have an answer for you other than it suppose to promote different playstyles, not exclude anyone build wise like you eloquently stated and more importantly, develope different team compositions.

The game is too new and too complex for 5 players to brainstorm and actually run a unique off meta build, imo.

Farzo.8410:

Obtena.7952:

While this sounds like a good idea for SW’s, I don’t recall people asking for this for years. Personally, I think the idea wouldn’t make SW’s any more appealing to use.

People have been asking for a change on the spirit weapons since 2013.

People have been asking for a lot of changes since 2013.
What he means is, SW wasn’t exactly the most voiced. Definitely not this year.

Since we’re talking about it, I personally want to do away with brainless AI build that people can just summon and win. I want the mechanic changed, that immobile spirit weapons idea that another player suggested.

Fluffball.8307:

abc.5790:

But it is a LOT of money because whomever makes it to the top will have an easier road from having little competition unlike other games.

If it does attract pro gamers, they’ll get up to snuff in no time at all. Once you learn the profession abilities and communication/rotation, high level PvP is more about innate, unteachable abilities than experience.

For example ROM can chug a bottle of rum, be talking to viewers, and still dodge skills out of the corner of his eyes that I never even saw. I simply don’t have the reaction time to do what he does and have to get by purely on me having played a lot. And that hard caps me to a certain level of play. I know when a ranger is probably going to use PBS and be ready to dodge it, but I can’t just be doing something else and miraculously dodge the KB if I’m not waiting for it.

ROM didn’t learn that in a week. He didn’t even learn that in a month! Don’t underestimate the learning curve this game has. Pro players from other games will try it, realize it’s either too hard or “not their cup of tea” and go back to what they know best.

There are a lot of players who’ve played for months and still haven’t gotten the jist of proper map awareness, and/or they’re simply not skilled with their class like other players are with theirs. The skill cap is definitely there.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Vatlaaw Fierceshot.5713:

Nova Stiker.8396:

abc.5790:

Incentives are getting serious. That’s a VERY generous prize pool considering how small the population is ATM. I do hope it attracts more people into pvp.

I’d rather them use that 400k to get someone to fix all the bugs and exploits, I just love invisible AoE fields, weapon stowing abuse and in Spirit Watch the blue side has the advantage.

I think this has been the 2nd time they had to fix Runes of Vampirism?

ArenaNet get your priorities straight. Guild Wars 2 can be a great Esport, but right now is a joke of an Esport.

Spit your venom elsewhere. This is a great thing for Guild Wars 2.

No, it’s really not. Guild Wars 2 is simply not ready for Esports, trying to make it so is a complete waste of resources.

League of Legends was the most played game of all time, THEN it became an Esport. A sport is something the community supports, right now Guild Wars 2 PvP does not have the community or support it needs.

This is what I fear the most. I would have doubled the prize pool, not quadruple it.

But hey, for better or for worse, it definitely wants me to create a team and compete just to compete. I got nothing to lose and i’m definitely confident enough to do so.

I hope GW2 gets bigger with the increased prize pool.

Xaylin.1860:

Saiyan.1704:

Still not all that impressed with Defender’s Dogma. You would have to block numerous attacks while also hitting numerous players. It doesn’t replace, or complement, Supreme Justice at all or permeating wrath for that matter.

Actually it does complement / partly replace Supreme Justice with certain set ups. Because it works great with slow weapons or when not facing many enemies as long as you got enoug blocks. Drop your trap. Pick up one Aegis one after another to reset your F1 passive. Pop an occasional Mace or Shield block while your trap is on cooldown.

It might not be attractive with Sword, GS or Scepter. But Defenders Dogma is pretty nice for builds with Mace or Hammer.

Yea you have a point there. Haven’t thought about slower weapons like mace/hammer taking advantage of DD trait over GS/sc/sw. I’ve completely overlooked that aspect o.o

Fashion Mage.3712:

Saiyan.1704:

You’re miss informed. We designated the Guardian as the healer class because there was no other class around to fulfill that role. No one, not the Devs or Lore, said Guardian was the healing class. So yes, Guardian was never meant to be the healer class.

Yes, building a guardian based on damage mitigation is one of the many ways to build them, but not seeing the obvious connection to healing that they have is just simple delusion.
I’d go on and on about all the supportive healing that guardians have, but BlackBox was already courteous enough to list most of it, although you shrugged it off as him being “misinformed*”. Guardians also used to have the best healing ability in the game until it was more or less stolen by druids.
As for the lore, I think the rather large connection that guardians have to monks really says enough.

It’s fine if you really love the kind of guardian that you’re playing right now, but your persistent and delusional insistence that guardians were never meant to be able to be built as healers is extremely obnoxious and you should really stop.

I’m not being obnoxious as if i’m flaunting my ego around. This is about the very representation of what Guardian was as a class before patch; what the certain people portraited the Guardian as being, to the current evolution to what the Guard truly is.

I’m not in any illusion that our biggest group healing aspect, Tomb of Courage, was removed so the Druid would appear as the game’s group healer class. It definitely wasn’t all about the asthetics of Tombs themselve. I could look at other class mechanics and say “oh, it doesn’t fit” or “it needed a change”. They wouldn’t have touched Tombs at all if it wasn’t for the Druid spec. That’s the Devs covering for what their intentions really were.

My point is, yes, Guardian was played as the Healing class because it was a group healing class. But that isn’t the core lore – foundation – of the Guardian himself.

He is a soldier who damages first, protects second and heals third.

Druid is a healer first, CC second and everything else falls under third.

Black Box.9312:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Guardian is in a good place. There are lots of build options and things to explore. Our class hasn’t stagnated, and still has a place in any game mode. Players refusing to develop the tools of their class is not the fault of the designers.

You’re really just plain 100% wrong on this. The class has absolutely stagnated. Want proof? Take a look at the Druid and Ventari Revenant. Take note of the fact that despite how many of our skills and traits being related to allied healing in some way, that these are being built from the ground up to be better healers than the Guardian ever was. Look at the fact that they’re abandoning healing power entirely in favor of just boosting allied heals by a percentage value.

Don’t say that Guardian wasn’t meant to be a healer, either. It was definitely meant to be a healer to at least some extent. The problem has always been that our allied heals are still balanced around a launch-era meta that Anet has now proven no longer exists. They’re not afraid to allow for actual scaling and have low cooldowns on allied heals anymore. And yet, here we are 3 years later, with skills like these:

-Virtue of Resolve: 1,625 heal, 50s cooldown, 32.5 HP/s
-Orb of Light (Detonated): 271 (to allies it passes through) + 788 (1,059) heal, 12s cooldown, 65.67/88.25 HP/s
-Empower: 1,500 heal, 20s cooldown, 75 HP/s
-Shield of Absorption (Detonated): 1,300 heal, 24s cooldown, 54.17 HP/s
-Merciful Intervention: 1,960 heal, 50s cooldown, 39.2 HP/s
-Sanctuary: 266 * 6 (1,596) heal, 120s cooldown, 13.3 HP/s
-Signet of Courage: 808 heal, 10s interval, 80.8 HP/s

None of these even bump above 2k unless you invest heavily into healing power, and even then you’re hard pressed to get them past 3k. Meanwhile, the HP/s ratio on every single one is under 100, making them less worthwhile for raw sustain than regen alone.

As for the actual thread topic, the change to gyros is really just another nail in the coffin for me. I loved my Guardians, but I really just don’t see myself caring about the class anymore.

You’re miss informed. We designated the Guardian as the healer class because there was no other class around to fulfill that role. No one, not the Devs or Lore, said Guardian was the healing class. So yes, Guardian was never meant to be the healer class.

It’s clear the Guardian mitigates the damage Allies receives, cleanses them instantly, grants them stunbreaks to get back up and stability to not get knocked back down. The Guardian picks you up, puts a sword in your hand and fights with you side by side.

The Druid is basically a field medic with a net and shotgun. He’ll put a bandaid on people, ensnare enemies and occasionally poke them with a stick.

People are so immersed about how the “Gerdien is thee support class QQ” mentality that they don’t see the game is evolving and defining the very classes we play.

Ragnarox.9601:

I tried DH H/LB and it sucks like guard with no DH. Slow attacks bad burst. G/LB is way better. If glacial heart goes back where it should be than it may be good. Havent seen hammer guard for ages.

I’ve tried DH Hambow high burst builds and… i’ve 1v2’d people with the bursts i was able to create. Didn’t pick a single trap, mind you.

The major differences is pretty much Bow DPS Zerkers + Trueshot has been phenomenal as well as Bow#5’s AoE burst damages. You just have to be incredibly careful with certain instant burst Thieves, Mesmers, other melee teleporting Power Guardians. Basically if you’re immediately in melee range, you will underperform every time.

Oh, and I used Sig of Hydromancy + Intel Sigils/Air sigs on Hammer. The JI + Weaponswitch + Hammer#2+Smite Condition, can be quite a powerful burst. That alone can and will down any glass Thief or Mesmer. I usually save it for when I get heavy bursted myself since players don’t usually think about being defensive during a huge offensive burst.

In all fairness to Karl, there has been a plethora of items asked by the Guardian community. Spirit Weapons were definitely lower priority than:

• Bow and its skillset changes
• Peels via F3 and its mechanic changes
• Burn guard/condi guard,
• Shield (omg shield! <3),
• Trap’s boons/stunbreaker/stability/dmg buffs
• DH self condi cleanse trait (although bugged)
• F3 self blocks for DH survivability
• An awesome F1 pull thingy to synergize trap playstyles – traps may actually be viable in high tier TPvP play.

- A complete redesign of Spirit Weapons isn’t exactly on the to do list, nor was it something people were talking about all through the DH skills collaborations, at least, compared to the other items we asked for. I wouldn’t dare trade any of these items for a Spirit Weapon AI fix.
- As for a run/walk speed increase, a Trap has Swiftness now. That’s about as close of a speed buff as we’re going to get lol.

Ragnarox.9601:

If someone DC’s and come back I think they dont need dishonor buff.

They don’t receive it if they come back within the 30s time window. Past that, and they’ll receive the dishonor buff. It’s fair :P

uhohhotdog.3598:

Saiyan.1704:

uhohhotdog.3598:

Saiyan.1704:

Anet needs to not hold players hands just because that player had a streak of bad luck. If this was 10 straight games worth of premade vs solo players then I’d understand but that’s not the case. If people lose 10 games or more, matchmaking shouldn’t automatically give them an auto win match… isn’t fair for the rest of us.

There is a surplus of newbie players in the game right now. It’s awesome seeing new faces but… matchmaking comps like the below pictures simply shouldn’t happen =/

*Me on Blue Team:
Lower MMR players against higher MMR players. If matchmaking is saying that the MMR is the same on both teams, I know for a fact that the MMR is wrong. I’ve played with and against those players to know how experienced they are.

Me on Red Team: Higher MMR players against Lower MMR players. Again, if matchmaking is saying that the MMR is the same on both teams, I know for a fact that the MMR is wrong.

How do you know which group is higher?

In my 2200 ranked/unranked games played, in each picture i’ve played with and against three users on each of those high mmr players. Them too – I guarantee you they knew I was FalseLights, the Burn Guardian.

Blue Team – why we lost
The Thief couldn’t rotate (he was new, so i wasn’t being rude or anything) so I had to tell him where to go. For the most part, he hung out at mid and went after beasts as soon as he could. He didn’t know his class all that much from how he fought. Warriors never stack well together unless they’re darn good at focus targeting, bursting and rotating. If I had went bunker, we probably would have reached 350-400 points so I’ll put this one on me.

Red Team – why we won
Toke, Kirito, and Verse knew how to rotate and i’ve played with these guys numerous times over. There were 2 good players on blue team, one of which was on the previous picture that I lost to but in the end the team comp simply didn’t know how to rotate the map appropriately.

I don’t see how that proves anything. Maybe it was a large spread on both sides.

Lets break it down a bit.

An inexperience Thief that can’t +1, decap, single target burst or rez an ally means the team will lack AoE damages in team vs team fights. This will slowly but surely snowball the map, basically becoming a 4v5 mid game.

Matchmaking should have traded the experienced Thief in for one of the other experienced thief (Lerla is better than char char if I recall). That alone would have caused less of a snowball than the game was.

Matchmaking doesn’t take into account the roles certain classes have. In-experienced thieves who can’t rotate the map properly, will contribute a whole lot less than an inexperienced Guardian/Ele/Engi/War/Necro player.

uhohhotdog.3598:

Saiyan.1704:

Anet needs to not hold players hands just because that player had a streak of bad luck. If this was 10 straight games worth of premade vs solo players then I’d understand but that’s not the case. If people lose 10 games or more, matchmaking shouldn’t automatically give them an auto win match… isn’t fair for the rest of us.

There is a surplus of newbie players in the game right now. It’s awesome seeing new faces but… matchmaking comps like the below pictures simply shouldn’t happen =/

*Me on Blue Team:
Lower MMR players against higher MMR players. If matchmaking is saying that the MMR is the same on both teams, I know for a fact that the MMR is wrong. I’ve played with and against those players to know how experienced they are.

Me on Red Team: Higher MMR players against Lower MMR players. Again, if matchmaking is saying that the MMR is the same on both teams, I know for a fact that the MMR is wrong.

How do you know which group is higher?

In my 2200 ranked/unranked games played, in each picture i’ve played with and against three users on each of those high mmr players. Them too – I guarantee you they knew I was FalseLights, the Burn Guardian.

Blue Team – why we lost
The Thief couldn’t rotate (he was new, so i wasn’t being rude or anything) so I had to tell him where to go. For the most part, he hung out at mid and went after beasts as soon as he could. He didn’t know his class all that much from how he fought. Warriors never stack well together unless they’re darn good at focus targeting, bursting and rotating. If I had went bunker, we probably would have reached 350-400 points so I’ll put this one on me.

Red Team – why we won
Toke, Kirito, and Verse knew how to rotate and i’ve played with these guys numerous times over. There were 2 good players on blue team, one of which was on the previous picture that I lost to but in the end the team comp simply didn’t know how to rotate the map appropriately.

Anet needs to not hold players hands just because that player had a streak of bad luck. If this was 10 straight games worth of premade vs solo players then I’d understand but that’s not the case. If people lose 10 games or more, matchmaking shouldn’t automatically give them an auto win match… isn’t fair for the rest of us.

There is a surplus of newbie players in the game right now. It’s awesome seeing new faces but… matchmaking comps like the below pictures simply shouldn’t happen =/

*Me on Blue Team:
Lower MMR players against higher MMR players. If matchmaking is saying that the MMR is the same on both teams, I know for a fact that the MMR is wrong. I’ve played with and against those players to know how experienced they are.

Me on Red Team: Higher MMR players against Lower MMR players. Again, if matchmaking is saying that the MMR is the same on both teams, I know for a fact that the MMR is wrong.

I’m more concerned about players rage quitting… telling everyone he’s no longer going to play, then sits in the base when the game is basically even.

Not that 4v5’s aren’t important either but the trolls who constantly quit mid game are utterly frustrating to deal with. I just tell everyone to report these players as “botting” and hope the Devs can see the trade chat. (A dev told us to do that, if I recall correctly)

Haha i haven’t even seen the new BWE3 thread!
\m/