Guild Wars 2

glaphen.5230:

Saiyan.1704:

The dmg break down helps in figuring out exactly how you died and in what ways. 5 people attacking you and you not dying until 2m has passed, does not mean burning is OP..

Like would you want me to post every single death recap tomorrow?

Yes.

You’ll realize that the 15 to 40 hits out of those Burn Hits were burn Guardian.

Or

A condi Necro transferred 15 burn stacks that your single Ele or Guard friend applied on their entire team from one skill, PF and RoF
(you’ll know when you see your own team’s name as damage done to you… i’ve completely wiped my entire team because I applied team wide burns with a Necro nearby.)

Or

You’re a teef that can’t handle AoE damages, especially condition ones. Thieves don’t nearly have enough self condi cleanses to last through team fights.. .. it’s why I Always tell the Thieves on my team to rotate out. They don’t belong there unless the team is synchronized enough to utilize him for SR rez, bursts, cc, etc.

Total Condi Damages doesn’t tell us anything.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I notice a lot of these nerf burning threads with screenshots have a Guardian somewhere nearby.

Like 90% of Guards at this point are burn builds. How about we just tone down the access Guards, Ele’s and Engi’s have to burning instead of blanket nerfing the condition as a whole.

Burn Guardian’s entire damage is based on Burns. It’s going to be the most damaging item there because it’s the only damage we deal… aside from the 1900 power, 4% crit – raw damage filler.

There’s a reason why burn guardians (conditions in general) are not utilized much in Tournaments. Conditions, other than Signet Necros, are not an issue against synchronized teams who know how to condi cleanse.

Again, Burning (conditions in general) is only an issue against solo players on unsynchronized teams… and apparently Thieves… 99% of the Thieves in this game QQ about burns or conditions, more than any other aspect in the game.

The dmg break down helps in figuring out exactly how you died and in what ways. 5 people attacking you and you not dying until 2m has passed, does not mean burning is OP..

glaphen.5230:

Pretty balanced.

You’re a Thief… it explains why condi was the most damaging condition on the list… you only got hit by raw dmg a couple of times while the conditions were ticking away while you were stealthed :/

And i think you got downed by a Warrior…?

Ghotistyx.6942:

Nike.2631:

Could we maybe swap out the un-loved Radiant Retaliation for~

• Unscathed Mobility. gain +25% speed while under the affects of Aegis.

Making it a grandmaster trait might reflect how very badly we wantses it!

I like Radiant Retaliation though. It’s difficult to make a build that actually used it, but I like the idea.

I still don’t think we absolutely need +25% movement. If we were to get it, I think replacing Signet of Wrath’s passive is the best bet. I’ve never seen anyone use SoW specifically for the passive, and I do nothing but look at builds. The speed/immob passive/active dynamic is pretty good. I could dig it.

The best option is to change the light aura on Perfect Inscriptions to “gain 5% movement speed per Signet equipped” that would be absolutely delicious.

I really like that idea. It would give Signets uniqueness compared to everything else that we have.

But then Guardians would complain that the speed buff wasn’t given to something more meta like Medi, DH or some other trait that’s not as underutilized as Signets. I still think it’s a cool idea.

[edit]

Ug. I very much lean towards a trait granting “gain 25% movement speed if you have 1 or more signets equipped.” Keeps from stripping out a passive effect someone is using now and lets you choose when one you’re going to carry without locking you in to carrying 5 to get the full effect. Really, only Revenants should have to put up with that kind of anti-diversity to function .

Yea you’re right, that would make Perfect Inscriptions something to consider if you have 1 or two Signets equipped.

style.6173:

Saiyan.1704:

People complain about not having enough condi cleansed but they don’t want to trade their damaging sigils in with purity/geomancy.

Then you have team syncronization… Ele, Engi and Burn Guard will obviously show huge Burn damages in the death screen as oppose to Engi War, Revenant. Yet.. people just look at the combined numbers from both classes instead of the damage breakdown :/

I’ve said it before, Burns are only an issue in lower tier, unsyncronized teams. The single condition doesn’t carry builds… if it did then condi Eles and Engi would be a thing.

It isn’t about the single burn. The whole point of this thread is that condi removal should cleanse the highest damaging condition first. It is really easy to put a variety of conditions on an opponent. Cleanse needs to pull off the most damaging. No one uses a cleanse to clear 1 bleed stack.

I agree that a certain burst conditions such as high burn/torment/confusion stack threshold should have priority over other conditions. But these stacks should be 12 for burns and 8-9 for torment. Even then, we’re talking about supremes here; the incredibly high burn stacks that usually happen when syncronized players focus damage a single target.

You’re talking about a removal to condi bursts when Power users (zerk thieves, zerk mesmers, zerk warriors) have free realm over controlling their burst damages.

I remember the QQ threads about Zerk burst builds. Burst condi isn’t any worse than what burst power is dishing out. Especially now after witnessing what power Rev was capable of.

People complain about not having enough condi cleansed but they don’t want to trade their damaging sigils in with purity/geomancy.

Then you have team syncronization… Ele, Engi and Burn Guard will obviously show huge Burn damages in the death screen as oppose to Engi War, Revenant. Yet.. people just look at the combined numbers from both classes instead of the damage breakdown :/

I’ve said it before, Burns are only an issue in lower tier, unsyncronized teams. The single condition doesn’t carry builds… if it did then condi Eles and Engi would be a thing.

eleshazar.6902:

Saiyan.1704:

DH is a power build that I like to use, as oppose to the core power medi variant.

I’ve always thought that burn Guardians had more at their disposal in terms of damages via blocks and utility items. Now it’s power guardian’s turn. They receive more damage applications through traps, more aegis applications means higher shattered aegis hit rates, and more cc effects to synergize the two.

Burn/Condi Guardians are not going to gain much, if anything, from DH tree. As a matter of fact, we’ll likely lose out on either damages or sustains and rightfully so. Power Guardians needed a push to rival that of burn guard meta.
(thats not to say that burn guardians are good now… my goodness.. Rev, Reaper, Engi are crazy good specs at the moment)

I don’t think you have any clue what a power guard is. A power guard is Zeal/Radiance/Virtues running all the damage modifiers and zerk gear. If you really try hard you can get DH damage close to current meta guard dmg, but that definitely isn’t by taking long bow, or more than procession of blades. You also lose utility by doing so.

Yolo glass cannon builds are not the definition of power Guards.. it’s whether or not you utilize Zerks or Marauders.

Not sure what build you ran this past BWE3 but Fragments of Faith is a whole lot better than PoB. It did crazy damages when traited, though, it could be a bug. I ran a high burst hambow zerks build and it was very effective.

eleshazar.6902:

There may be some who like DH, but the fact that we have gotten removed from meta comp after being in it for 2 years (and let’s be honest, we were only in it for WoR, aegis, and occasional stability/protection) should probably tell you something about our elite spec compared to others.

Just because Power Guard got removed from the meta previously, does not determine whether or not our elite spec will be good or bad. It just means the bar was set low for DH to be better. DH can, and probably is, just as good if not better than the core power guard.

Ghotistyx.6942:

There is one condi DH build that uses traps and scepter+torch to create tons of passive VoJ procs. It’s much more of a chokepoint or point defender, but it exists. Other than that, I’d agree DH doesn’t help with conditions much. It definitely does help with applying cc and area denial though. Traps, LB, and cripple help you control space, which ultimately van help many different build styles.

I most definitely agree that DH makes for a better 1v1 build (whether that is power or condi, I just didn’t have enough time to test either build.)

There’s no way that the build could be used for node assault/defender in the competitive scene. This was already proven with Hybrid Guardian (burn gerdiens prepatch). We were able to assault/defend any single node in a 1v1 point but when it came to any other 2v2+ scenario, the build lacked considerably. This mainly had to due with the heavy self sustaining meta comp as well as performing worse than a Thief in team fights..

Black Box.9312:

Some people like Dragonhunter.

But many do not.

A terrible speculative assumption. Rule of thumb: If there are less QQ threads, there are less unsatisfied players. The threads with “I want this added” are less and less. Even teh most pushed thread (speed buff) hardly makes top 5 priority in terms of “We really, really need to give this to our players”. It comes down to how good DH is compared to the other Specs. If the DH is good, players will think less and less about how fast they walk.

DH is a power build that I like to use, as oppose to the core power medi variant.

I’ve always thought that burn Guardians had more at their disposal in terms of damages via blocks and utility items. Now it’s power guardian’s turn. They receive more damage applications through traps, more aegis applications means higher shattered aegis hit rates, and more cc effects to synergize the two.

Burn/Condi Guardians are not going to gain much, if anything, from DH tree. As a matter of fact, we’ll likely lose out on either damages or sustains and rightfully so. Power Guardians needed a push to rival that of burn guard meta.
(thats not to say that burn guardians are good now… my goodness.. Rev, Reaper, Engi are crazy good specs at the moment)

tAzz.8497:

I had games vs 3 guards. 25 stacks of burning in like 1 second, cant even heal or hit the condi removal . Insta down, its all good, working as indended.
Even more try some games vs 2 bunkers on condi (warr and necro) Gl killing them and take the points.

Good thing that most ppl want to see some numbers and they go power builds, else the pvp in gw would be full of this kitten condi bunkers. cele ele v2

Conditions in general need a nerf. There is no way u can remove condi at the same rate they are applied. And u cant make that happen, that would make condi builds useless.
But then again u need to boost 1 stat for condi and 3 for power builds.

Something has to be done. Aint fun running around after a headless chicken thats full hp all the time and spams conditions.

You will die to any class that 3v1 you.

They were burn guardians with 4% crit rate… all the damage is from burns.

If your team didn’t help you out, thats a composition issue not a Condition one.

Burn Guardians don’t stack very well because of how easy it is to soft counter them. That said, any poor syncronized team can get destroyed if they don’t have self cleanses or team wide cleanses.

You could have gotten Aegis or that player got Blinded in a split second :P

Here you go gents!
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAse7dlsAhmhY5QwbIwPEHzD19ef0ao2AXZAYvgVYRB-TJhAwAW3fgzJBYcZAAPBAA

It’s of course a burn build but it utilizes Sword + Shield and Scepter + Focus.

Sword is mainly used for its #2 mobility and combo effects. I use Sword#2 + Geomancy weapon switch, and #2 + Shield #4 Shatter Aegis or #2 + Shield #5.
Mace would be my second pick to further utilize the Block build.

Shield has worked pretty well. It completely negates Lich Form attacks, Mesmer range dmges (not shatter), Engineers poison darts and Rifle skills, and others. If used correctly Shield can be quite strong. More importantly, bubble doesn’t root and the Aegis is just awesome.

I’m theory crafting Shattered Aegis for Shield#4 and Retaliation on block. It’s mainly for team fight scenarios… but Virtues Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath will perform better in 1v1 situations but maaybee not so well in team fights.

I’m going to stress test this build further (ran it pass 2 days, been working well) then switch to Virtues and compare performance differences. But so far i’m really liking the Sw/Shield and Sc/Focus Burn on Block combo. Others should try it (others will pick virtues, again i’m just theory crafting)

Keksmuffin.1450:

Your sigils are terrible. Also I don’t see how hammer would help with killing npcs more than sword/focus (apart from the fact that hammer/gs is terrible against actual players and has like no synergy).

The Sigils aren’t terrible. Most Guardian’s may replace the condi cleansing sigils for air/fire but… with all the Necros absorbing team conditions and transferring them around, that may not be a bad idea. The extra dodge may be needed as well. Hydromancy sigil adds more AoE damage to an already heavy melee oriented build

As far as whether or not this build is the best in Stronghold, DH will be better for several reasons.

Power builds will be better utilized on DH because of all the utilities DH will have. It gives Power builds a probable “range burst” option if Zerkers is utilized correctly on Bow, we can gain moderate (better) amounts of sustains via condi cleanses as well as gain F2 “mini” mobility and F3 blocks. Trap utilities asside… Player’s aren’t realizing how strong DH is looking compared to the first BWE.

Support Bunker builds do better at escorting Skrits, can make the Lord invincible, is a good supply runner and can possibly facetank mist essences.

Burn meta are better at killing NPC’s but other than that, they have little to no supportive attributes. They can’t defend/assault Mist Essences, Kill Treb fast, they can’t even down the Lord fast thanks to all the CC that’s being thrown around. Burn Guardian’s aren’t bad in SH.. they’re just not nearly as effective as the above build variants.

Honestly, as a Guardian I have bigger issues with pro Mesmers and Ele on point than a Necro.

I can usually counter play the Necro, holding out my bursty CDs till the very end so he’ll use his condi transfer shenanigans early on. Quite simply… Necros are 3x easier to counterplay than Ele or Mesmer.

That’s not to say that another class wont have bigger issues against Necros. In duels, I noticed Engi could hold his own against an Ele and win at times. Never saw how they faired against Necros.

They definitely don’t have the effectiveness a good Cele Ele can bring in Conquest. Give Necros mobility like Ride the Lightning, Fiery GS and a Teleport then yes, most definitely.

“Highest damage in stat screen… must be OP”

People are forgetting that Necro’s can condi transfer team conditions onto himself, then could either transfer them back to everybody and/or towards a single target for burst damages… then convert people’s boons for additional condi damages.
That screen shows combined damages from every player. Including your own.

People complain because they received absured burn damages in X amount of seconds… was there a condi guardian on your team and a Necro on the other? Your burn guardian that transferred 9 burn stacks on the necro/minions/enemies, probably killed you thanks to condi transfers. Burn Damage is not the reason people are dying in TPvP. That only happens when you’re against an Ele (r they fix?), Necro (transfered ur burns or corrupt boon) or Burn Guardian (all damages are through burns).

I challenge people to actually post “Top Skills by Player” and see exactly where these “OP” burns are coming from.

If I had to vote, it would be at Lobby Only. Reason being, it adds a bit of mysticism. A player can be roaming the PvP lobby and finally see that player’s badge. Whether it’s a high bad or low badge, they’ll be equally surprised.

If it was at end of map (my second vote) it’s almost inevitable to not be grouped with some one you’ve just faced previously. They’re just going to tell their team what rank they are… then again, they could just tell them how good you were anyways… so it really doesn’t matter.

I’m sure this has been said but it should also be something the party group (or pvp lobby) can click on and immediately see what badge a person is, but hidden in matches.

Please add prestiges to GW2 PvP! Have us revert back to lvl 1. I must flaunt my time played via prestiges in addition to title rewards!

Eval.2371:

Ragnarox.9601:

so pet doing 9k dmg plus maul doing 8k….nice buffing and creating new power creep…GG AT BALANCING STUFF!!

ranger can do 20k dmg in 1 sec..thank you.

lol this is old news. If you played a power builds pre patch you could land 10-15k mauls(which is is just SoH/MoC maul) or a 10k rapid fire its really not that hard. Canines have been hitting 5-9k for a long time. Somewhere I have a screen shot of my fernhound downing a thief from full with sickem for 11k.

The only things they changed damage wise is they allowed us to copy boons to and fro pets. It just means we can actually use the might we stack(most of might stacking goes to pets). The damage potential was always there, just stacking might was a problem.

People that are complaining about the boon stacking don’t understand at all, go play some and wait till you encounter anyone with boon rip or corruption. You literally implode.

Pretty much this. I have a Guardian video some where that showed me getting 1 shotted by a lucky Maul + procs prepatch. It was so ridiculous I had to add it in the vid >.>

Veeman.5270:

This is a nerf to the synergy for Dragonhunter’s traited Wings of Resolve leap + Judges Intervention (for damage + 3 sec immobolize).

That, actually makes a lot of sense. I imagine other classes with teleporting + leaping abilities could have been problematic too. I don’t mind the loss of QoL as long as there’s a proper justification behind it.

I don’t see why Hammer got effected though.. unless a DH Hambow Lockdown build really is that powerful considering the new DH abilities. Out of all the DH builds, I felt that was still the most viable one.

Burn Guardians are only OP if you let the following happen:

• Allow them to Whirl Wrath you and your group. If they land this 3s long attack, you’ll likely have 9+ burn stacks on top of 2.3k raw damage. If it hits 5 people, that’s 15 burn stacks, approximately 3x more dmg than power guard (assuming it doesn’t get immediately cleansed…)
  Guards will try to cleave downed targets.
• Purging Flames + WW – Every hit applies an additional stack of burns. Same as the above.

That’s pretty much it… other than that, we have JI and PF for people to avoid. Mid fights are fun for a burn Guard if he can cleave. Mid fight is Not fun against mobile spread out targets… we would have to do all of our damages through JI and PF..

So yes, Burn Guardians are very OP against class stacking teams who have no clue about burn guardian mechanics.. (i’ve wiped full teams before.. it really should never happen)

When I was defending, I couldn’t help but wanting to kite back towards my Guards for some type of strategic support. They don’t have the “help me” feature I’d hope to have when I run back to them.

I’m not asking for moba level sentry Guards, just added strategy that’s similiar to something like it.
Moba sentry points attacks npcs, but the moment players are attacked by other players within a fixed area the sentry will prioritize that attacking player.

The way I would like to play is, I’d like each Guard to offer a hard CC. This CC can occur to any single person but only once every 10 or 15 seconds or so.

This would mean that it’s less of a race between which burst class can kill guards first. If that class gets hard CC’d, he’ll have bigger issues if some one like a Thief comes along that split second. It would make roaming with NPC’s (mainly skrit and occasionally ranger) more wanting, yet risky, as skrits could die if they’re targeted first. But they can take the cc.

Ranger minions should nullify Guard’s CC effects. Guards CC effect proc range should be less than the Ranger minion so they can nullify the Guard effectively. This would probably make people choose at least 1 ranger minion per start of map.

Thoughts?

If OP was refering to Stronghold then I would agree. Why take a Thief when a Mesmer, between portal and mass invis (omg mass invis!) would be waayy more viable for the game mode.

Thief would be good at ruuuning to treb… ruuunning between offense or defense to +1 either side then ruuuning supplies when there’s no where else to ruuun.

Quite boring and not nearly as significant as Thief in Conquest. Other than that… I have to agree with the other posters. Thief is top two in Conquest in terms of how big of an impact the class could have in the gamemode.

Guardian Duel Tournament Imminent!!!

Who will compete hmm!?!

TorsoReaper.8530:

Saiyan.1704:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Dawdler.8521:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Dawdler.8521:

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

Except when the matchmaking system isn’t flipping a coin but rather a complicated algo that can be admittedly broken.

Which still wont change the fact that the average will gravitate towards 50%.

If its broken, it will be broken on both sides but the 50% remain – sometimes you end up in the team that roflstomps the opponent, sometimes you end up in the team that is roflstomped.

Sure the matchmaking could be better. But loosing 8 times in a row is just bad luck. I bet the OP still has around 50% winratio. Because he’s probably won 8 or so times in a row too. A couple of days ago, I won 4 matches in a row (the only 4 I played that day, 100% win ratio w00t!). Yesterday, I lost 3 matches in a row and won the 4th by literally the skin on my chin (I held center vs 2 enemies, they got it down to 20% cap and we won with 500 vs 498 or something haha).

Still will never be 50% if you solo queue because pug vs premade w/l ratio is going to be in the 30% range or less. Therefore if you have 50/50 on your pug vs pug and 30/70 on your pug vs premades, your weighted average will be less. The only way someone can get 50/50 is if they have insanely good luck that they are on amazing pugs that can take on premades who practice together and have voip going (unlikely) or if someone does a fair amount of premade vs pug themselves in order to offset their pug vs premade losses.

Wrong.
How often do you think a 1+1+1+1+1 vs premade happen?

Look at the current leaderboards.

In 1000 players, how many people do you see with less than 45% win rate? The averages are all around 50%, +/- 5%.

You’re talking about extremes here. I can’t help it if you get premades back to back for 10 straight games. That’s definitely not happening to everyone. For starters, I haven’t faced a premade in a week. Really wish I got more tbh.

" I can’t help it if you get premades back to back for 10 straight games."

That sentence alone proves my point because you’re admitting that premades are going to beat pugs. I know you think anet matchmaking is great and there’s nothing wrong with it. You’ve been proven wrong there. You think pug vs premade isn’t a problem, there is. When 90% of the 500 people who take a survey want solo queue back, there’s absolutely a problem. 500 is beyond a statistically significant sample size.

That statement means your odds of losing increases. It doesn’t mean you’re guaranteed to lose against premades.

I never said I agreed with the matchmaking and I never said it was perfect. On both accounts, I don’t.

TorsoReaper.8530:

In addition, pvp leaderboard only goes to 1000. You’re telling me only 1000 people played pvp last leaderboard season? That’s the entire population? Pretty sure GW2 has sold over 5,000,000 copies. If they let us see every single person’s W/L ratio in GW2 we would see A LOT of people at < 40%. There’s also something called “survivorship bias”. If someone has a win rate of < 40%, how long do you think they’ll keep playing pvp? So if we only count W/L on “active players” we’re going to get a skewed ratio.

Finally, if you truly hope you get put against some premades, I do too. That way you’ll stop thinking matchmaking is totally fine.

Never said only 1000 people played the pvp season. What I did imply was that 1000 is a big enough pool to see exactly where the win/lose ratio stood amongst players. You’re blindly assuming that players not listed on the leaderboards, are automatically <45% win/lose ratio.

The last 1000 players on the current leaderboard have 81 rank points. These players played 200 games, give or take 20. It’s reasonable to assume that anyone who hasn’t reach this game count, will not be listed on the leaderboards. This does not mean these players have <40% win/lose ratio They just haven’t played enough games to be ranked.

You have no evidence to support your assumption.

Tournament, Team PvP play?
Best Duelist on Marauder/Zerks Power Spect?
Best Duelist on Condi Burst Spect?

TPvP, I’ve played against Boons and Arken (not at once). For the sake of respect, i’m not going to tell you which three of us are better.

I would tell you who makes a better dueler but these guardian players don’t duel as often as others so I have no idea.

psst.. i’m best bern gerd na

TorsoReaper.8530:

Dawdler.8521:

TorsoReaper.8530:

Dawdler.8521:

Forcing? Uhm… If we assume two equal teams – or unequal for that matter – there is a 50% chance you will win and a 50% chance you will loose. Which means that the average over time will be just that, 50%.

Its hard to avoid basic math. People that doesnt approach this is doing things to avoid it. Like the pics above. Its not suspicious at all with 80% winrate in custom arenas and close to 50% in any normal matchup. Nope, not at all.

Except when the matchmaking system isn’t flipping a coin but rather a complicated algo that can be admittedly broken.

Which still wont change the fact that the average will gravitate towards 50%.

If its broken, it will be broken on both sides but the 50% remain – sometimes you end up in the team that roflstomps the opponent, sometimes you end up in the team that is roflstomped.

Sure the matchmaking could be better. But loosing 8 times in a row is just bad luck. I bet the OP still has around 50% winratio. Because he’s probably won 8 or so times in a row too. A couple of days ago, I won 4 matches in a row (the only 4 I played that day, 100% win ratio w00t!). Yesterday, I lost 3 matches in a row and won the 4th by literally the skin on my chin (I held center vs 2 enemies, they got it down to 20% cap and we won with 500 vs 498 or something haha).

Still will never be 50% if you solo queue because pug vs premade w/l ratio is going to be in the 30% range or less. Therefore if you have 50/50 on your pug vs pug and 30/70 on your pug vs premades, your weighted average will be less. The only way someone can get 50/50 is if they have insanely good luck that they are on amazing pugs that can take on premades who practice together and have voip going (unlikely) or if someone does a fair amount of premade vs pug themselves in order to offset their pug vs premade losses.

Wrong.
How often do you think a 1+1+1+1+1 vs premade happen?

Look at the current leaderboards.

In 1000 players, how many people do you see with less than 45% win rate? The averages are all around 50%, +/- 5%.

You’re talking about extremes here. I can’t help it if you get premades back to back for 10 straight games. That’s definitely not happening to everyone. For starters, I haven’t faced a premade in a week. Really wish I got more tbh.

TorsoReaper.8530:

If it’s a pug vs a premade, the average MMR of the premade team should be multiplied by something like 1.15x or 1.25x in order to take into account the obvious advantages a premade has versus a pug. Anet can look at the point distributions and adjust this multiplier as needed in order to not have premades dominate pugs but also vice versa.

The reason I say point distributions is because W/L ratio is bull. Someone can have a 50/50 W/L ratio but if every game is 500 to 100 either for or against, this is not good matchmaking and not fun pvp. It’s much more important to have games be 450 to 500 and maybe the W/L strays from a 50% average because a competitive match that is lost is much less disheartening than a blow out loss.

They already give an additional 2% (forgot the actual numbers) for premade vs solo queuers. The “odds of winning” increases for the premades. That meams that the soloQ team wont receive that bad of a loss in points because of the odds being against them.

Anet said that it’s hard to govern exactly how much of a “buffer” to give solo players vs premade matchup because every match, every team, is different.
Personal experience: I’ve beaten several premades while on a solo team. I just wish I could see my “odds of winning” in a match.

Furthermore, Anet said that the average points a losing team can reach are around 300. If a player consistently reach a certain point threshold, it’s hard to determine exactly how “good” this player is.
(In other words, if the majority of solo players have an average of 300 point distribution, then it’s difficult to differentiate mmr amongst them)

It’s why there are many factors govering MMR matchmaking, even ones we may not know. Anet just gave us a simplified version of how it works.

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

You got a whole minute to change your build. That is more than enough imo.

And players could physically go to their banks to deposit materials. Sometimes QoL changes make things better. In this case, it would make doing seperate gamemodes with different builds easier to do.

Black Box.9312:

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t get the relevance really; why would anyone expect DH to be any good for PVE in the first place? Was there ever any doubt that it had a heavy flavour as a PVP spec? I don’t think a lack of endorsement by Obal indicates anything other than we already have an optimal DPS spec for PVE.

I’m gonna go ahead and say that it should be safe to assume that it’s not going to be any good in PvP either.

Like when you said Burn Guard was going to be bad?
Hehe, i’m not going to let that one go!

Again, I said that it was gimmicky, and again you’re trying to twist my words to make me look like a fool.

Don’t do that.

Was just teasing! Though we have different opinions, I wouldn’t do that. I’ll remove the comment.

Eagelseye.6312:

Thanks Teutos.8620 for the advice. I had been reading the forums and trying to figure out what is the overall scenario of the PvP but I am still confused.

Rangers/Hunters getting staff to heal, Ele/Mages also acting as healers with Guardians/Prot Warrios fighting for Revenant for being top healers to play Bunker/Tank seems very confusing for a returning player as such.

I seek more suggestions and help from veterans here.

That’s not exactly accurate. Even the community (granted, the majority who don’t pvp on a competitive level) are having a difficult time realizing exactly what’s going on with the Specializations that HoT is bringing.

Elite Specializations
The patch is “specializing” classes, basically giving them a new playstyle in general. This was never meant to completely replace another class entirely
– Druids or Revenants are not going to replace Guardians in terms of the Guardian Lore – what the Guardian is as a profession.
That doesn’t mean they all can’t fulfill that bunk/sustain/team support role. When people say they’re going to replace guardian, it usually means the meta Bunker Guardian role.
(Your Tanks in other MMOs are Bunker classes in GW2)

That said, every class could always do what the other can offer. A damage role is not defined by a Warrior or Thief or Ranger… like other games. Everyone is dps. Everyone is sustains. It’s a matter of performances; a player’s skill level and/or certain team syncronizations.

In PvP, we turned Conquest Roles into a science. For example:
Rotation/Decapping/+1 builds
Thieves are The Best in rotations; decapping points and +1ing a fight. Other classes can do the same… they just can’t do it as efficiently as a Thief. A team with out a Thief, better have syncronized players who can rotate the map in an efficient and organized manor. These team comps usually win team fights but struggle to win back the map due to a Thief decapping them.

Bunkers
These guys hold down the point, often 1v2ing or even 1v3ing long enough for people to rotate in. Guardians are currently the ‘meta’ when it comes to choosing a bunker class for a team but Warriors and Necros can also make for great Bunkers. It used to be required on any competitive team but that has changed since the Cele Meta (celestial amulet, it was added in a previous patch)

Power builds
Damage dealing is split up in two different forms, Power and Conditions. Power is a direct, immediate burst where Conditions are usually damage over time effects. There are some instances where Condi can be burst damage but condi is also susceptible to cleanse condition effects – completely negating the damage.
(High power builds utilizing Berserker amulet used to be meta but was considered “unhealthy” to the game. It’s why they added Cele and buffed certain sustain trees)

Bruiser Builds
Basically a class that doesn’t have enough sustains to be considered a Bunker and not enough dps to be considered a power build. These guys constantly applies pressure throughout a team fight, lasting as long as they can on a point to either receive help, or peel away to help some one else. The best Bruisers are the ones who can act as a bunker and 1v2ing classes as well as have high rotational mobility. It’s why Cele Dagger Ele (cele d/d ele) have been receiving so much heat. Teams have based their entire compositions on them and won tournaments.

That’s basically it. Certain classes can do things better than others but they can all be configured to be the same role. People play GW2 PvP because it can be very competitive. Strictly speaking, Tournaments. Otherwise, it’s super casual – playing mainly for titles and skins. The casual playerbase are finally getting a League system. The Veteran PvP players who got their title and skins all too quickly, are going to be able to craft PvP specific Legendary gear ^.^

trytonianYeti.4389:

Pre June 23 ele was indeed the most balanced. It was easily countered by shoutbow, cele rifle, poison master ranger. After they nerf the d/d, it will be slightly more powerful than the pre patch with less sustain.

It’s a toss up if teams will continue stacking eles. I know the pvp will be a mess for a bit after expansion release but a new meta should be established within a month after

You mean Ele was countered by two other overpowered Cele classes so this made the game “balanced”? You don’t say.

I think there’s a Willie Wonka meme about this some where.

Hunter.4783:

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t get the relevance really; why would anyone expect DH to be any good for PVE in the first place? Was there ever any doubt that it had a heavy flavour as a PVP spec? I don’t think a lack of endorsement by Obal indicates anything other than we already have an optimal DPS spec for PVE.

I’m gonna go ahead and say that it should be safe to assume that it’s not going to be any good in PvP either.

Like when you said Burn Guard was going to be bad?
Hehe, i’m not going to let that one go!

I’ve stressed tested DH in TPvP and duels. A lot of what the build lacked has already been addressed.

• Condi clears
• Invalid line of sight with Bow skills
• Low damages with bow
• F3 didn’t block (a huge one)
• F2 was worthless if you had a CC
• If F2 did work, you’d never go anywhere with it

I feel the DH will handle itself quite well now in any 1v1 situation, better than group fights. In team fights, it’ll still take some ingenuity to be good with bow in terms of not dying right away from geting focus targeted.
(I feel power builds will utilize bow more than condi builds)

1v1 the class will still be terrible, don’t kid yourself. Any melee centric class, like thief and war, and reapers especially will literally RIP the DH a new one.

You think your 1k auto attack crits will save you from the 10k mesmer burst or the constant pressure reapers can pull out?

DH really wasn’t that far off of being a “good” 1v1 duelist. Now that they actually gave us an F3 block, it’ll help to additionally counter an ability/skill/strategy on any class. It was absolutely needed for counterplay purposes.

Every block will give us a condi cleanse. That is way more than enough for any 1v1 fight. Heck, Contemplation of Purity is enough cleanses for any 1v1 duelist build. We have more build diversity now that we don’t need CoP or Absolute Resolution (unless team oriented).

The biggest thing I have issues with is Stability – they never addressed that weakness of DH… the stability trait isn’t exactly great but I guess it was never meant to replace our other Stability utilities.

I have my doubts that the Bow will be used in this selfish 1v1 playstyle because it just sucks against any melee centric class. But yes, DH will definitely be a better 1v1 duelist than a team fighter. This makes sense considering Rangers are currently in the same boat lol… DH is basically a direct mirror of them, with a spice.

Khenzy.9348:

Meh, who cares. In less than a month from now you’re gonna see revenants/heralds, reapers and chronos all over the place drastically changing the meta, Eles are not going to be top dogs anymore.

D/D Cele Ele will still rotate faster, tank better and will still have a higher damage to sustain ratio. It’s why Cele D/D Ele is the best Conquest class. They’re inadvertently made for the gamemode.

The only thing that would push them out, is the amount of CC effects such as Slows, Cripples, Immobs, Taunts, etc, in HoT.

Considering Ele gains half of their performances via mobility, they will underperform against heavy CC comps. That said, they may still out-perform everyone in mid’s Foefire but lets see what that nerf of theirs do.

Locuz.2651:

Saiyan.1704:

It is an MMR system, it’s ran by Glicko2.
You’re wanting high win rate = skill level and that does not equate to skill. That’s only if it’s a premade team vs a premade team – it doesn’t help the solo, duo, trio queue players at all where winrate is always around 50%.

The old system had huge issues with it…. I don’t want to go back.

NO higher win ratio shouldnt equal higher leaderboardrank/MMR. I never said that… Gaining/losing MMR should be based on who u lose or win against.

It’s kind of already based on that.
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/gw2-pvp-ladder.jpg

Locuz.2651:

Soloq should be seperated from teamq anyway…

I agree, soloQ would help the casual player base who prefer to play against other solo players. Hotjoins should be 100% solo players only. If you have a friend who wants to queue, or on a full team, it should all be played on Unranked PvP.

The previous SoloQ leaderboard was the most frustrating, ridiculous system ever. It was not based on skill level, it was based on pure luck – any player who won 10 games in a row would be on the top of the leaderboards.

Ajax of Telamona.6974:

Saiyan.1704:

Locuz.2651:

The problem is that youre overcomplicating things Evan.

You created an MMR system with 20 variables while only 2 or 3 are needed.

Youre like the guy that tries to act like a really smart guy while hooking up with girls… but who ends up going home alone at the end of the night since he made himself look like a major kittenhead.

Stop being arrogant and trying to reinvent the wheel. All we need is a simple and transparent MMR system similar to what for example world of warcraft has. AND split team and soloq.

It is an MMR system, it’s ran by Glicko2.
You’re wanting high win rate = skill level and that does not equate to skill. That’s only if it’s a premade team vs a premade team – it doesn’t help the solo, duo, trio queue players at all where winrate is always around 50%.

The old system had huge issues with it…. I don’t want to go back.

Ajax of Telamona.6974:

I wanna say something and before u start to answer think.
I have 4 accounts that i play (Why? Is my problem) I play almost only PvP.
The matchmaking really scks. Some days my 2 accounts are so easy doing daily and fast that i can’t believe ( in pvp always)
The other 2 to get 1 win takes sometimes 10-12 games. This thing make’s me feel that account’s random targeting and the kitten them up in matchmaking . I do not not know the reason but it happens. I pay attetion this thing the last 5 months everyday the same. Sometimes is better to leave a game and log another account ( this i try for science is not something that i like ). Why this happen?
Why?
Please answer something logical and not only for paserby my question.
And really i don’t care if is difficult or not to find a solution ! 3 years i support u with gems buy accounts etc . I want an honest answer.

There are several factors as to why.
Matchmaking definitely doesn’t show favoritism nor is it random.

Assuming you’re running the exact same class with the exact same build across all 4 accounts – matchmaking is ultimately based on mmr. The longer you play a class on that acount, the more “true” your mmr is going to be for that class.

Judging by “it takes 10 games to get a win”, that account has a high mmr setup for you. The only way to truly know is if we can see our mmr (make it happen anet!)

From what I understand, mmr isn’t seperate on classes, it’s seperated by game modes. If you play Mesmer for the first time in Rank PvP and do terrible, it’s going to lower your mmr on your main class that you usually do good on.

(It’s like this because people would choose a new, low, mmr class to get a newbie matchmaking then switch to a high mmr class for the win. They haven’t set an angorithm to fix it, from what I understand)

So unless you play the exact same number of games with the exact same build across all 4 acounts, there’s going to be differences with your matchmaking because all 4 accounts have differences in mmr.

Wrong! Every day is different account! and all accounts are Dragon!

/facepalm

Amante.8109:

Are people still under the impression that Diamond Skin is (or ever will be) a thing? For a variety of reasons that should be self-evident, “above 90% health” traits aren’t practical against any reasonably competent player.

It’s only a thing against the condi meta… oh right, there is no condi meta.

Ele are actually more susceptible to go Earth for Stone Heart once HoT meta is changed to
Druid/zerks/zerks/zerks/sustains support

btw diamond skin still needs a rework.

Locuz.2651:

The problem is that youre overcomplicating things Evan.

You created an MMR system with 20 variables while only 2 or 3 are needed.

Youre like the guy that tries to act like a really smart guy while hooking up with girls… but who ends up going home alone at the end of the night since he made himself look like a major kittenhead.

Stop being arrogant and trying to reinvent the wheel. All we need is a simple and transparent MMR system similar to what for example world of warcraft has. AND split team and soloq.

It is an MMR system, it’s ran by Glicko2.
You’re wanting high win rate = skill level and that does not equate to skill. That’s only if it’s a premade team vs a premade team – it doesn’t help the solo, duo, trio queue players at all where winrate is always around 50%.

The old system had huge issues with it…. I don’t want to go back.

Ajax of Telamona.6974:

I wanna say something and before u start to answer think.
I have 4 accounts that i play (Why? Is my problem) I play almost only PvP.
The matchmaking really scks. Some days my 2 accounts are so easy doing daily and fast that i can’t believe ( in pvp always)
The other 2 to get 1 win takes sometimes 10-12 games. This thing make’s me feel that account’s random targeting and the kitten them up in matchmaking . I do not not know the reason but it happens. I pay attetion this thing the last 5 months everyday the same. Sometimes is better to leave a game and log another account ( this i try for science is not something that i like ). Why this happen?
Why?
Please answer something logical and not only for paserby my question.
And really i don’t care if is difficult or not to find a solution ! 3 years i support u with gems buy accounts etc . I want an honest answer.

There are several factors as to why.
Matchmaking definitely doesn’t show favoritism nor is it random.

Assuming you’re running the exact same class with the exact same build across all 4 accounts – matchmaking is ultimately based on mmr. The longer you play a class on that acount, the more “true” your mmr is going to be for that class.

Judging by “it takes 10 games to get a win”, that account has a high mmr setup for you. The only way to truly know is if we can see our mmr (make it happen anet!)

From what I understand, mmr isn’t seperate on classes, it’s seperated by game modes. If you play Mesmer for the first time in Rank PvP and do terrible, it’s going to lower your mmr on your main class that you usually do good on.

(It’s like this because people would choose a new, low, mmr class to get a newbie matchmaking then switch to a high mmr class for the win. They haven’t set an angorithm to fix it, from what I understand)

So unless you play the exact same number of games with the exact same build across all 4 acounts, there’s going to be differences with your matchmaking because all 4 accounts have differences in mmr.

Burning is basically the only damage the Guardian has. Nothing unusual about that.

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t get the relevance really; why would anyone expect DH to be any good for PVE in the first place? Was there ever any doubt that it had a heavy flavour as a PVP spec? I don’t think a lack of endorsement by Obal indicates anything other than we already have an optimal DPS spec for PVE.

I’m gonna go ahead and say that it should be safe to assume that it’s not going to be any good in PvP either.

I’ve stressed tested DH in TPvP and duels. A lot of what the build lacked has already been addressed.

• Condi clears
• Invalid line of sight with Bow skills
• Low damages with bow
• F3 didn’t block (a huge one)
• F2 was worthless if you had a CC
• If F2 did work, you’d never go anywhere with it

I feel the DH will handle itself quite well now in any 1v1 situation, better than group fights. In team fights, it’ll still take some ingenuity to be good with bow in terms of not dying right away from geting focus targeted.
(I feel power builds will utilize bow more than condi builds)

For those who missed it:
http://dulfy.net/2015/09/26/gw2-twitchcon-skill-balance-update-preview/

Shield of Judgment – will now apply 4s of Protection in both PvP and PvE.

• Many have asked for it, glad we got it.

Shield of Absorption – changed to 4s channel from 1.25s channel but in compensation we are no longer rooting you when you use this skill so you can move around with the bubble.

• Absolutely Needed It!!!

Feel my Wrath – increased the recharge from 30s to kitten . It was too strong.

• Indifferent! Maybe a WvW thing?? A Specialization Thing??

Save Yourselves! – Was split between PvP and PvE version, now we are using the PvE version across all modes.

• Needed It! Assuming this was a buff.. .. I don’t use the shout.. .. guess that’s why we needed it :P

Vapour.7348:

Nah I don’t think these leather lovers will replace the support guard.

Currently, Rangers and Mesmers are at the top of the heap in 1v1. I think the Druid elite could secure their position as the best duelers out of all builds and classes. That’s probably the biggest threat they have – which isn’t that much really.

I guess we’ll just have to see how well they stack in a team. 2 or more of these could be a problem.

This is also in response of Yelloweyedemon.2860.… the poster above me.

I honestly think DH can be a Better 1v1 profession than Mesmer and Druid both.

This comes from the utilization of the Dragonhunter’s F3 Block, Hunter’s Fortification trait (every block is a condi cleanse) as well as a stacking of Amplified Wrath and Rune of the Guardian (2x burn on block effects).

Too bad Power Guardian’s don’t gain more damaging through DH effects.

In terms of 1v1 viability, DH will gain more DPS and more Condi Cleanses than your average META Guardian.. .. in that 1v1 aspect.

Druid – will basically gain more self heals and team heals.
Mesmers – will gain more CC/Slows/bursts but these items are more animated than your average, random, stealthy rotations that you can’t counter..

Yelloweyedemon.2860... you’re not on a top team.. you have nothing to hide other than facts about what a profession Can or Can-not do. Like you said, there’s nothing more to say.
I’m not acting immaturish, i’m not calling you out, i’m merly stating facts; challenging statements that may or maynot be accurate…. don’t take it personal.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Saiyan.1704:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Saiyan.1704:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Saiyan.1704:

Unlike the Guardian, the Druid lacks numerous mitigative abilities like Blinds, Blocks, Invulnerability etc. The Druid will get CC’d and bursted down so fast, it’ll be laughable.

Signet of stone
Protect me
Shared Anguish
SotW (stability)
RaO (stab)
GS#4 (one of the best blocks in game)
Various damage mitigations from WS traitline
Protection after dodge rolls
Various (all sorts of) utilities from pets, like Blinds, Weaknesses, Dazes, Fears, Stuns, Taunts….

Want me to continue? …

Yes continue, but I’m looking for more of a “how to” rather than a list of traits and skill that the Ranger already has. I don’t main Ranger remember? A skill list isn’t telling me anything.

All the items you listed are from what the Ranger already has. It’s not like the Ranger is going to automatically give 5k heals per sec to his allies, due to his Elite specialization. It’s hard to believe that the Ranger has everything to gained and nothing to lose.

You said that ranger has no way to mitigate damage, and deal with CC. I just listed you various skills and traits that prove that to be laughably wrong, and that’s the skills that quickly came to mind.

You obviously have no knowledge on ranger, yet you did create a thread saying jibber jabber about what the class can do.

The class utilizes self sustains via large amounts of CC and Survival skills (what you listed) that’s already part of the Ranger’s Meta – Not Druid.

What I want to know is, what are you going to trade in to gain the Druid skill set? I’ve seen the Ranger meta, a meta full of CC, Power and self sustains.

What is the Druid going to bring?
What tree are you going to sacrifice to gain these items?
What role does it have?
Is the Meta Ranger going to be the same with the exception of “moar team heelz”?

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Some may think that you are just annoyed that guardian might lose his spot to a druid.

Then those people don’t know me at all

Druid is not going to replace Guardian for what that bunker Guard build already does.
I would be happily surprised if the Ranger turns out to be a dps warrior but, he’s not going to outclass the Guardian. He’s not going to outclass Shout Warrior. He’s not going to outclass Revenant. Druid is going to offer heals, heals, and.. .. selfish utilities.

You are already throwing a class in the trash by jibber jabbering about what other classes can do, completelly ignoring the fact that we have not played the class and do not yet know how elite specs will change the game.

I’m done replying to you. Keep on hating.

There’s the difference with replying with facts, like what the meta class already offers, as oppose to replying what the class is going to improve on….

That’s what I’m looking for in terms of a response from you – tell me what the Druid’s strength is and tell me what its weaknesses are..

TL;DR
We haven’t played the new Dragonhunter Changes but I can absolutely tell you what our strengths are, what trees we’re going to pick and what our weaknesses will be.

Can you not do the same with your main, given the Druid specialization video and utilities / traits that you’ve seen?

The Reaper’s Gothic “Super Saiyan” was alright but… the Druid definitely had better SFX throughout his specializations.

Sorry Reapers, but I just used half of your budget for the entire Druid specialization!

ok not politically correct, but hey, cuddos to the Druid dev SFX team!

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Saiyan.1704:

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Saiyan.1704:

Unlike the Guardian, the Druid lacks numerous mitigative abilities like Blinds, Blocks, Invulnerability etc. The Druid will get CC’d and bursted down so fast, it’ll be laughable.

Signet of stone
Protect me
Shared Anguish
SotW (stability)
RaO (stab)
GS#4 (one of the best blocks in game)
Various damage mitigations from WS traitline
Protection after dodge rolls
Various (all sorts of) utilities from pets, like Blinds, Weaknesses, Dazes, Fears, Stuns, Taunts….

Want me to continue? …

Yes continue, but I’m looking for more of a “how to” rather than a list of traits and skill that the Ranger already has. I don’t main Ranger remember? A skill list isn’t telling me anything.

All the items you listed are from what the Ranger already has. It’s not like the Ranger is going to automatically give 5k heals per sec to his allies, due to his Elite specialization. It’s hard to believe that the Ranger has everything to gained and nothing to lose.

You said that ranger has no way to mitigate damage, and deal with CC. I just listed you various skills and traits that prove that to be laughably wrong, and that’s the skills that quickly came to mind.

You obviously have no knowledge on ranger, yet you did create a thread saying jibber jabber about what the class can do.

The class utilizes self sustains via large amounts of CC and Survival skills (what you listed) that’s already part of the Ranger’s Meta – Not Druid.

What I want to know is, what are you going to trade in to gain the Druid skill set? I’ve seen the Ranger meta, a meta full of CC, Power and self sustains.

What is the Druid going to bring?
What tree are you going to sacrifice to gain these items?
What role does it have?
Is the Meta Ranger going to be the same with the exception of “moar team heelz”?

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Some may think that you are just annoyed that guardian might lose his spot to a druid.

Then those people don’t know me at all

Druid is not going to replace Guardian for what that bunker Guard build already does.
I would be happily surprised if the Ranger turns out to be a dps warrior but, he’s not going to outclass the Guardian. He’s not going to outclass Shout Warrior. He’s not going to outclass Revenant. Druid is going to offer heals, heals, and.. .. selfish utilities.

If you choose Guardian because you think you’ll do more healing than class A B C… .. Then you misunderstood what the Guardian is.

We prevent X amount of damage while, as a bonus, also aiding in damage output.
We’ll still grab that sword and enter battle by your side… better yet… we’ll be front line!!!

We Are Not not going to put a bandaid on you and say that things are going to be better – The Druid

- If people are looking for a Healer Class, Druid is your calling.

- If people are looking for a class that’ll offer “support” while also deal damage, Guardian or Dragonhunter is your calling. It isn’t hard to wrap your head around – Guardian isn’t the ‘Kings of Support!’ class.

I have no issues with another profession offering more heal than I do. However, I DO have issues with a class mitigating more damages then me!

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

Saiyan.1704:

Unlike the Guardian, the Druid lacks numerous mitigative abilities like Blinds, Blocks, Invulnerability etc. The Druid will get CC’d and bursted down so fast, it’ll be laughable.

Signet of stone
Protect me
Shared Anguish
SotW (stability)
RaO (stab)
GS#4 (one of the best blocks in game)
Various damage mitigations from WS traitline
Protection after dodge rolls
Various (all sorts of) utilities from pets, like Blinds, Weaknesses, Dazes, Fears, Stuns, Taunts….

Want me to continue? …

Yes continue, but I’m looking for more of a “how to” rather than a list of traits and skill that the Ranger already has. I don’t main Ranger remember? A skill list isn’t telling me anything.

All the items you listed are from what the Ranger already has. It’s not like the Ranger is going to automatically give 5k heals per sec to his allies, due to his Elite specialization. It’s hard to believe that the Ranger has everything to gained and nothing to lose.

atlrising.5134:

Heres why I say it was not needed, max stealth was 25s with torch 4, decoy and mass invis.

Seriously.. 25s of stealth with huge Bursts in between.. .. I made a Mesmer. This exact build made me beat mains who had 1200+ hours worth of PvP. Please…

We could cross the map from one side to another just like a thief (which no one is complaining about) and it would run out before we even got all the way across.

Just… NO

If a Mesmer could roam quicker or better than a Thief.. .. then Mesmer would be utilized in EVERY team. Mesmer roamer skills aren’t as good as a Thief.

Mesmer’s “team roaming skills” isn’t even a big deal in ESL and Mesmers utilizes that aspect a lot more than your average casuals.

atlrising.5134:

Most Mesmers dont even use all three, so our stealth is only around 14s total. It seems to me that everyone did not like it because when we stealthed you could not just instant burst us. It required you to put in more effort. I invite all my mesmer brothers and sisters to post here and cause a fuss. Make Anet see the error of their ways.

It seems to me that people abused the stealthness of the Mesmer all too often.
Stealth
Bursts + auto attack
Stealths
stun lock/burst
stealth
Bursts
…rinse and repeat.

If stealth is being underutilized because they’re using 14s out of 25s of it, then force the casuals to utilize ALL the stealths….

I remember a time when a Mesmer actually took skill to be good. If I can use a Mesmer PU build and be “good” then something needs to be changed.

Last I checked, Rangers didn’t have much to offer….

Can you tell me how the Ranger can drop a tree to further utilize what it’s gaining from Druid.. instead of, “Ranger has other trees”.. that really doesn’t tell me anything
(non-Ranger main here, be specific)

I imagine a Ranger will go Beast Mastery / Wilderness Survival / Druid

Anything specific that will remove what I just said about Druid?

Trevor Boyer.6524:

What we really needed was a universal nerf to burn fields in general.
And maybe a very slight nerf to D/D Ele heal coefficients.

That would have been = problems solved.

I do agree, to an extent. Burning Fields should receive a Max Stack count.. there’s no reason for a single fire field (Purginf Flames… Ring of Fire…) to go over 9 burn stacks… I’ve seen as high as 12 burn stacks because of l2p.

That said.. a Signet Necro can Purposely walk inside fire fields (doesn’t need to if he’s a minionmancer [all minions will receive 3 burns = 15-18 burn stacks transferred!] ) multiple times to transfer X amount of burn stacks. Well played Necro, well played.

As for casuals who aren’t as experienced… that aspect of Fire Fields is kind of a double edged sword. Should you or should you not allow the mechanic? The enemy can definitely use it against you. Newbies will get pwned.

kdaddy.5431:

Wow i didnt see this in patch notes but if is what there doing thats huge. Might stacking is what allowed D/D eles to be strong. Without might they dont do the condi dmg or dps they were doing before. Also the time reduction on the burn stacks is a bit much. Before it was 7-9 stacks of burning for 5-7 seconds. Now its literally nothing and this is a huge blow to d/d eles. I called for a nerf on longer cd time on blind which i felt should of been 10sec and reduction from burning stacks. Wow though on the might from cantrips. D/D ele might be dead now.

What allowed D/D Ele’s to be strong in the first place was the rotation advantages they had in Conquest, the self sustains that could rival that of bunker classes, and the large amount of damages that really only existed via Fire Fields. Less Might Stacks? The only thing this means is less time in Mid on Foefire… the map is absolutely OP for Ele’s… they can kite and sustain so well that Ele broke it…. they absolutely needed less sustains in an area that required it more – mid.

I agree with the other posters here, the change is not going to hurt the Ele position much. It’s just going to make them “fair” – in theory.

(Look back on any Foefire map that utilizes two cele d/d ele, they dominated that map. It’s because of the amount of sustains/damages they could manage in mid via kiting people. That said, I do agree that ESL/WTS set a new standard for Cele D/D Ele. Better be kitten good to use the spec.)

Elegie.3620:

I don’t understand the Ring of Fire thing. Currently, you can avoid the burning by not walking through it, but with the new skills, you’ll get some initial burn unconditionally?

It’s finally fair.

Guardians can 3/4s cast Purging Flames (my goodness, i’ve been interrupted so many times…). It can instantly applies 3 stacks of burns and 3 more stacks per walk in/out.
PF is on a 35s cd, 25s if traited.

Ele’s can cast this fire field instantly.. every 12 seconds or so. That means in any given match, you’re 3x more susceptible to walk through or out of the Fire Field. This has been seen and proven countless of times through multiple games. The class ultimately received more Hate than the Guardian!

Ele’s Fire Field needed to be more on Tier with the Guardian’s Purging Flames. Give it an instant 2x burn stack because I know it will give me 4 burn stacks maximum due to some “Lucky” instance where while my character was kiting or engaging the Ele.

L2P is impossible to govern when Ele instant casts RoF on my feet. Ridiculousness.

This also means that ANY class who usually Re-enter’s Ring of Fire 3 times due to walkage and receive 9 to 12 burn stacks… will receive 6 to 8 burn stacks instead.

Nice Anet, nice.
/claps

“If they strike you or your allies, it will heal you”
“When they see this, they will know it’ll heal them.
“This trait will, you guessed it, will increase healing.”

Druid is nothing but a giant healing well where allies can get healing from. This Well has little to no defensive attributes in terms of mitigating CC or burst damages. He’s basically a Healer with “oh crap” utilities. He’ll still be dependent on classes that can offer him stun breakers, stability, instant condi cleanses (guardian) or some CC effects like Knockdown, Knockback, Fear, immobolizes, blinds, (War, Necro, Engi). Not to mention safe stomps and safe rezing, which almost every class has except the Druid.

Druids are going to do very well in keeping glass cannons alive, assuming the Druid himself can stay alive amongst class cannons. The Druid will complement Zerker Guardians who take Absolute Resolution and Indomitable Courage. They’ll most definitely complement Zerker Warriors, Engineers and Power Necros. Honestly, the Zerker Meta (lack thereof) needs the Druid.

The current self-sustaining classes (the meta), wont utilize a healer class with little to 0 Stability or self mitigative attributes.
The team wont tell him to rotate to Far node to 1v1 a class, or to even keep the node contested long enough for the team to get there. In other words, I don’t see the Druid replacing an Engi or Necro Meta in order to take a role of a Bunker class, of which, a Guardian can do better in. Team regen isn’t that much of a necessity.

“Druid is a better Guardian than the Guardian is”
Guardian’s Guard people through Blocks, Blinds, Cleanses, Prot, Stability and Stunbreaks. We make sure the door doesn’t slam in your face. If it does, it won’t do enough damage for you to care.

Druid will make sure you’re healed back up once that door slams in your face. But if the door slams and you’re low health, better hope I have a CD up to instant heal you back up. Otherwise, good luck.

Assuming we’re comparing bunker to bunker… The druid won’t be able to hold 2 burst classes at once like the Guardian can. I can guarantee you that much. Why you ask? Lets say the Druid is Settlers. This will put him around 15k health with moderate amounts of heals. Unlike the Guardian, the Druid lacks numerous mitigative abilities like Blinds, Blocks, Invulnerability etc. The Druid will get CC’d and bursted down so fast, it’ll be laughable. If you have a team that complements the Druid, the Druid could help a team live longer (i’m not saying the Druid is bad, he definitely have his perks if he’s utilized correctly).

TL;DR
The Druid can and will no doubt live for days with a Settlers rune vs any one Zerker class. The moment he gets engaged by any type of CC + 15k burst damages, he’s dead. Period. It doesn’t matter if the Druid gets 2k heals per second.

Black Box.9312:

Don’t expect much from the Dragonhunter. If you want to play something similar to the Guardian playstyle (or at least what it was meant to be), pick up either a Revenant or a Druid Ranger. You’re far less likely to be disappointed.

Druid Ranger isn’t a Guardian play style… Druids are basically a healing plant that occasionally offers CC. Guardians will protect you while also making sure you mitigate damages via Blinds/Blocks/Stability/Stun breakers while occasionally improves party damages through Quickness + Might stacks.

Drennon.7190:

Saiyan.1704:

zinkz.7045:

lilz shorty.1879:

We have one specific viable spec in PvP and WvW, and what do they do to the elite? Nerf it? LOL…….

Ahh, poor guards, only one viable spec in WvW, for a class that has been both a requirement and the most numerous for 3 years, I am sure engies, rangers, mesmer, etc are crying tears for you.

How about PvP, well lets see, for nearly two years every single team had a bunker guard, and since then decent representation with medi, then more bunker and condi build, again I am sure those who play classes who have spent huge periods of time as poorly represented like ranger, necro, mesmer, etc are shedding tears for your perceived plight.

What next, elementalists moaning?

Trust me, OP doesn’t represent the Guard community.

Good thing the solo queue hero is a better representation of the Guardian community than one who has actually played top tier pvp….

Awe people recognize me as that? /blushes

Never said I was more qualified. Only meant that he doesn’t represent me or anyone else.

zinkz.7045:

lilz shorty.1879:

We have one specific viable spec in PvP and WvW, and what do they do to the elite? Nerf it? LOL…….

Ahh, poor guards, only one viable spec in WvW, for a class that has been both a requirement and the most numerous for 3 years, I am sure engies, rangers, mesmer, etc are crying tears for you.

How about PvP, well lets see, for nearly two years every single team had a bunker guard, and since then decent representation with medi, then more bunker and condi build, again I am sure those who play classes who have spent huge periods of time as poorly represented like ranger, necro, mesmer, etc are shedding tears for your perceived plight.

What next, elementalists moaning?

Trust me, OP doesn’t represent the Guard community.