Guild Wars 2

Honestly, Guardians will probably remain in the same spot as usual. I’m 100x more concerned about how powerful other classes will be.

Maybe the focus shouldn’t be about our minor trap nerfs but how much (or little) other classes are getting nerfed. I’m mainly concerned with Engi, Mesmers and Revs.

Aegis can get taken off so easily by a feable attack. How about we get a trait that increases this break threshold to 2k+ damages only? I think it should be an honor grand trait imo.

Hunter.4783:

Guardian is trash tier right now. And Anet is considering nerfing DH because amber players can’t dodge.

I wouldn’t want to play a Guardian now, much less after the update. Re roll ele war rev or necro whike you can. Druid and engie is much better as eell. Even thief is getting nerfed.

Guardian will be sitting in trash tier by itself till at least sumer 2016. I’m not looking forward to it

There are two classes in trash tier, atm, Guardian is not one of them. I’m optimistic about the soon-to-be balance patch… if all they do is nerf and not buff, then yes, we’ll be bad.

Have faith in Karl!

So much for the introduction of Bleeds in DH trait line…
“Condi Guardian, it’s a thing” … well apparently not

I would like Radiant Retaliation to have a rework or changed completely. Heck, Scrappers have higher retaliation damages now! We would have to sacrifice a Lot just to have 10 more retal damage points than scrappers but can’t be nearly as effective.

In terms of condi weapons, our F1 can turn any weapon into a condi weapon with the exception of Hammer, Mace, Staff and Bow. Guardians are the exception of the “weapons has to apply condi” rule.. but yea, we’re missing that “oomph”.

Were you a teef with no armor against a glassy DH Zerker Guard? lol.

Arnath.2319:

This official confirms that Guardians will be the worst profession in game when this patch goes live.

We will be worse then Thiefs or Warriors currently are.

Traps were the single thread holding this profession from falling into the abyss, i’m not saying they didn’t deserve changes, but with zero compensation to the rest of the Guardian this profession will be the most broken in GW2 history.

We are already useless in raids, we are already useless in high-end PvP, over half of our talents/traits/weapons/skills are either broken or useless, and now they wont to remove the only semi-optimal option Guardians have left with zero compensation elsewhere?!

Whats the point in playing this game when the devs clearly have no idea what they are doing.

Overly dramatic are we? The most useless class atm are thieves and warriors… you can’t give that title to Guardians out of blatant assumptions because history has proven otherwise.

I’ve said weeks ago that Guardians needed a nerd Only if other classes are receiving one also. Given the announcement, it seems that other classes are receiving a nerf. So yes, we definitely do too.. given our other traits/skills are changed just like the dev stated.

I also said that thieves needs a minor (very minor) buff if other classes are receiving a nerf. We may see another power creep Thief rise but we’ll see by how much.

I sense that Engineers will be the new Bunker mesmer or another cele d/d ele like prepatch. They said they’ll increase their sustains… but “keep an eye on them”… like, really? Mobility plays a huge survivability role in this game and Engis have plenty of that.

Our 2 instant cast traps needs to keep their base line stun tbh. The other trap stuns were nice but I agree, it was over the top…

Artaz.3819:

Saiyan.1704:

I’m having more success with this particular condi build than the others that I’ve tried, though; it could just be my lucky matchmaking.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAsf7dnkICNDhlDBeDB8DhjEi6usBQCk3v+bAxbQGUmA-TJhAwAAeCAcOJAjLDAb/BA

Double Ele Comps With Diamond Skin
Outrotate the Ele and avoid 1v1’s, or last long enough to get a +1 who can get him below the 90% health threshold. There after, it’s usually pretty easy for you to burst him down assuming you have the health and cds to do so. Condi Burst around his Water attunement.

This works until the Tempest Ele knows your build and swaps one trait from their meta build and hard counters you (AND what is more infuriating is it affects all allies around the Tempest as well)…so gg

Necros/Reapers running meta also destroys you thanks to Plague Signet which pretty much every Necro now runs :(

Revenants use Pain Absorption which takes it from all allies as well (and Glint heal) so yeah.

G’luck

Haven’t had a comp matchup like that but i’ve definitely have had double signet Necro and Ele comps running DS. I had to rotate and moderate my burn bursts very carefully. In most cases, not bursting until the very last second.

Reapers are still a 50/50 win chance. You’ll either cleanse that burn transfer and/or Elite focus their melee bursts or you don’t and die :o

Can’t vouche all too much in the higher diamond+ premade leagues but i’m not having many issues in Sapphire pug/premade matches.

So I wanted to give another update since I said i’ll stress test the build after receiving a few successful ranked wins prior to the weekend. Turns out my initial hype of the build was simply because of the current meta; you’ll melt certain classes given your burn burst engagements. I was just watching the burn build work naturally on classes that were already weak against conditions.

Honor is only really helpful if you’re getting focused down and you’re needing to survive that extra 5s of burst damages. Aside from that, it doesn’t better your odds in 1v1 or any other situation compared to Radiance

I got this particular build from Lazarus.4105 This Build can actually break a DS Ele’s health threshold with the use of Fire and Air sigils thanks to the 15% crit and any fury you get from medis. You can actually break the Ele’s health with just Sword#3 and the right procs. The moment you see that health pass 90%, JI/PF/Torch/Auto Attacks him. If your burst cds are down, then you may not be able to.

yLoon.5289:

I’m still doubting the potential of Lithany of Wrath =/, does the burn tick return health to us?

Yup, burns count as damages done! The main reason I don’t use Shelter is because of all the Stuns in the game… between Necro’s Fear, DH’s Traps and Mesmer’s Wells… your Shelter Will get interrupted quite frequently. With Litany, it’s a quick heal that can potentially heal you to full health.

I share my builds, good or embarrassing, is so I can get feedback that leads to something that works :) That and I want the meta to change lol.. a bit bored of DH myself. Let me know if y’all have any questions.

They explicitly made it known that we’re not going to get any other type of peel off ability. DH F1 pull & F3 is the only thing they gave us. That and Cripple on F1 procs but we all know how pathetic that trait is compared to the much needed Stability Hunter’s Determination grants…

Be very careful with your team comp, especially if you’re all Diamond. If you have a team full of DH, Thieves, Warriors, Necros, it could be a lot more difficult against a team like Mesmers, Revs, etc. Losing a game as a full premade Diamond will almost guarantee you a 2 pip loss, all because of a back team composition. Especially if you face that one full Amber/Ruby team and they rekt you by a 200-300 points… that will be a 3 pip loss.

If you’re a full Diamond team, heavily consider your team composition and the players you have. Heck, grab any baddie Amber player and just carry or coms him with your 4 man team :P

Dealing damage to 1 person across the map then teleporting to the OP and instantly doing damage to him? That is NOT lag.

Hope Anet gives what this guy deserves!

You mean a team comp like 2 Bunker Mesmers, 2 Viper Revs, and 1 Ele?

I guess so.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Hi Saiyan!

I have a few questions if you don’t mind…

So currently DH has some issues with Tempest/Druid/Scrapper/Revenant/Reaper… It is nice that you addressed one namely the Revenant but this build is still underperforming against the OP classes. So as a Gua a DS Tempest won’t kill you with reflect but you still have no chance against it unless +1.

So why don’t you use FlameLegion to break that DS? Maybe supported by a Leeching sigil? Do you think 65% burn duration is a must have?

The 65% burn duration and 150 extra condi power from Bal runes may not seem like much of a difference on a single target, but that 82 dmg increase per F1 proc suddenly increases condi DPS exponentially when hitting multiple targets. The increased burn duration means these burn procs stack up quicker and stay on the target longer, forcing players to waste a condi cleanse so you can set up PF, JI & Torch#4.

What’s funny is that once the Ele’s health is below 90%… they melt like butter. It’s why Double Ele on a team comp isn’t as big of an issue. You either out rotate them, sustain long enough with valor/honor to get a +1 or join a group fight and choose another target. Either ways, your Permeating Wrath will grab the Ele once he’s below the threshold and then you can retarget him.

To me, the huge AoE damage potential in a group skirmish fight isn’t worth trying to better your 1v1 odds class against a class that has always countered Guardian since day one. If Flame Legion actually guarantees you a win against a Diamond Skin Ele then i’m all for it… but it doesn’t unfortunately, not even close

Aggrostemma.1703:

I see this is a sort of bunker build with Honor… Loads of self heal with Aegis and Selfless dodges… Did you just try to circumvent that Dire does not exists in PvP?

If it is a bunker it should have a chance against popular bunkers like Druid and Tempest. But it does not (you said).

Please can you explain the role of your build a bit better?

(Sorry I do not want to be a d-head. I’m absolutely open for new builds and ideas… But you said Feedback Welcome! Also please note: “Ay duo not ewan engrish”. My apologises again if I was too harsh…).

Happy Guardin’!

The build is definitely not a bunker build by any means, nor is it meant to be.

Honor was chosen over Radiance due to the lack of sustains and team support utilities core burn guard has. Radiance’s 20% increased burn duration and 20% increased burn damage doesn’t make up for Honor’s 6k extra health in a course of a fight.

Thanks to the current meta, we’re needing more sustains. I’ve been at a ridiculously low health threshold right when I received a +1, got a lucky stomp, etc. Force of Will as made a bigger impact than how it performed prepatch, most definitely.

This build is definitely a bruiser style of play. It provides excellent AoE damages that could potentially wipe an entire group if they’re not careful. You typically want to go far or home at start and enter mid fight thereafter so that you can effortlessly condi burst on a focus’d target.

Tough criticism is the best kind!
I hope I answered all your questions. Now that it’s the weekend, I’m going to stress test the build further. For all I know, it’s only working because people have poor condi cleanses in this meta – or – just the matches i’ve been in. Either ways, it’s killing Revs, Scrappers, and Reapers and that’s all I need going for me.

Inb4 “were’s our frequent balance patches”

Awesome post nonetheless. Looking forward to S2.

I’m having more success with this particular condi build than the others that I’ve tried, though; it could just be my lucky matchmaking.
revised build – removed Honor for Radiance and added Air/Fire sigs + Fire runes.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAsf7dnkICNDhlDBeDB8DhD/hyGAdbdeD3L4DyJxEmhA-TJBFwACeCAAOJAm2fIaZAA

Double Ele Comps With Diamond Skin
Outrotate the Ele and avoid 1v1’s, or last long enough to get a +1 who can get him below the 90% health threshold. There after, it’s usually pretty easy for you to burst him down assuming you have the health and cds to do so. Condi Burst around his Water attunement.

Viper Rev Meta
This build pretty much counters the glassy zerk revs. You shouldn’t even have issues with 2 revs on you if they’re skill level is mediocre. You’ll output just as much damage (if not more) while also having CoP + Purging Flames to cleanse conditions.
Editor’s Note: Cast PF or JI Burst attacks at the very start of a Rev engagement. Force him to use his heals early on for your unexpected burst so you can have the advantage later on in the fight. Save your two dodges + Focus for his Sword Teleport bursts and save Renewed Focus for his second teleport bursts. Do that and you should win every time.

Druids
You simply won’t beat a good Druid 1v1 unless you engage them while they’re already in a fight. You’ll do a good job downing Druids in a team fight, just don’t condi burst around their invulnerable skills.

Reapers
Are a 50/50 matchup. Either you’ll cleanse that 10+ stacks of burns they transfered back to you, or you fail to cleanse early and die miserably. Reapers are easier to outplay than Scrapper.

Scrappers
The more difficult comp 1v1. It’s a 4/6 or 6/4 matchup that could go either way. You have to be very careful to not throw your Torch when he has his reflects up. Remember to burst with PF/JI after he uses his turret water splash cleanse. Another fight that’s better to burst early on rather than later.

Skill Rotations
Start out with Scepter in group fights and auto + Scepter#2 as long as you can before you condi burst. Choose who you target carefully, never an Ele unless you’re in a group and others are also attacking him. Once you see his health drop to <90%, instantly JI + PF and/or + Torch#4 him and he should melt like butter. You

_Use Scepter#3 for Condi Coverages, preferably right after casting PF or JI. Don’t auto attack at all after you condi burst or you’ll apply a burn and ruin the cleanse priority.

Litany of Wrath Heal
It heals more when you do large AoE Damages. PF + JI + Permeating Wrath in a group pretty much guarantee you an extra 8k-10k heal. Just time your LoW very carefully as your JI can easily get blocked or ur PF bursts gets cleansed. I usually pop LoW when I know i’m going to take heavy damages, so that the heal will come back on CD when i’m near 20% health.

Everything else requires a learning curve, knowing other classes mechanics; knowing when to burst, when to cleanse condis and when to use LoW. More importantly, learning how to survive in high pressured scenarios. For example, you can Stunbreak out of a Mesmer’s CC Well if you time it at the very start of the Well effect. Since you don’t have any Stability, you could get Stun locked so be careful.

You can use Shield in replace of Torch on Khylo to knock people off of Mid. It’s also useful when peeling under the middle node, then retargeting a player above you to teleport back up – allowing players who were following you to waste time and run back up middle node.

Feedback Welcome!

Defiling Treekiller.1632:

the one trick pony whaaambulance drivers are back with a new cross to carry, maybe stop playing a build that relies on your opening move being load em up with 9 condis in 3 seconds. there are plenty of ways to beat DS if you adjust your build/playstyle or maybe just maybe play with a team and if your a condie bomb then go after the other 8 classes that it works on and let your DPS team mates hit the ele for the 1800 damage needed to break DS

I’m perfectly fine with a team made of instant AoE cleansing Guardians + Water Cleansing Ele + Condi transfering Necros + Shout Cleansing Warriors.

I’m not fine with 1 trait mechanic doing all the work for the Ele, without the need of other players.

If you think we’re complaining about condi viability then you’ve completely misinterprered all of these obvious threads. We’re asking for a mechanical change here.

edited: It’s the same cross btw… our views about DS hasn’t changed…

Towren.1745:

I main an Elly with Diamond Skin:

If you play an Elly without Diamond Skin you die. You just melt, you really do – completely and utterly. Try it. Take stoneskin instead, boom you’re dead in seconds. Everyone knows Viper Revenants… ………. Lol
-snip

Revenant facts:
Are OP 1v1 and 5v5 skirmish fights both…
Uses a Glass amulet with Power + Crit stats
Is NOT and does NOT represent condition builds!

I think the loss/win of 2 pips should be reduced to 4v5 / 5v4 scenarios ONLY.

The point system is so ridiculously miscalculated/uncalculatable, that ANY team can snowball the map given the right comp; increasing their point lead to gain a win of 2 pips.

sephiroth.4217:

ReaperJr.5967:

Mysticjedi.6053:

sephiroth.4217:

It’s a lot easier for newer players though, they haven’t settled into a 50/50 win/loss ratio set by the system yet, which is why you see so many r40 and under already at legendary compared to all the legendary champions stuck in Ruby.

This is a true statement. With no adjustments made, the system can give a wider variety to more inexperienced players as it tries to figure out how to get them to 50/50. The more games you have the more you’re pegged within a +/- range that will hinder progression.

Let’s face it though. This only really matters if the division represent skill. I wish they did, but they are a grind fest. There is no need to be mean to people who are in Diamond or Legendary unless they think it means they’re good. Divisions are like personal scores in a match, they give no indication of skill.

Just play and try to have fun.

It’s funny because I haven’t seen any r40 or below in legendary. Or know of any. Simply put, it’s impossible for them because they haven’t grasped the in depth mechanics of the game. Their mmr may be more volatile but their lack of understanding and mechanical skill offsets that. It is easier for them to progress up the leagues, but only till ruby and possibly diamond. Moreover, mmr only accounts for 50% of matchmaking.

Also, I’ve found it very hilarious to see how contradictory people are. Many are, like you, fervent believers that divisions do not represent skill. Yet, they whine and make a big fuss when
1. They matched against players of a higher division than them
2. They are matched with players of a lower division than them

I mean, if they truly believe so, it shouldn’t matter what divisions their team mates and opponents are right?

The “If I don’t see it, it’s not true” logic is childish.

There’s a few low level legendaries, the person I have in mind, played Druid, key board turned, got on point and used his GS block without moving, got attacked and never moved just popped signant, then popped troll urgent, still not moving or dodging, that’s how he played his way to legendary.

There was also a thread a day or 2 ago about “Ultima Troll” afk’ing his way to legendary…. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/First-Legit-EU-Legendary/first#post5895465

The sad thing is… this is somewhat true. All you really need is two heavy set bunkers, like Druid or Mesmer, on any given team to snowball the game because no one can 1v1 or 1v2 these classes efficiently like we could prepatch.

GW2 is ridiculously in need of a balance patch…

Those who oppose Diamond Skin

• Condi classes can’t counter, outplay/outsmart any Elementalist with DS on
• It’s the only condi defense trait in the game that actually 100% counters condition heavy classes except power+crit+condi hybrid glass amulets.
• Asking for a trait mechanical rework, not a removal"

Those saying Diamond Skin is fine

• Run with power friends.
• Don’t choose a condi build, choose bunk or power instead.
• I’m a power/condi/crit Rev and have no issues
• I don’t like condi, so, a trait that counters it is fine

There’s no mechanical justification for Diamond Skin being the way it is.

I thought decap rangers were about as niche as condi Daredevils lol… they’re becoming a thing?

You’re going to get two different answers here.

Burn Guard can beat a rev, it doesn’t mean it’s anywhere near the performance a Rev is in TPvP… or even on the same performance Power DH is for that matter.. of which.. underperforms compared to a Rev.

A good Warrior can make a decent 1v1 build but again, we all know where his standings are in TPvP…

Power Shatter Mesmer/Condi Mesmer are strong 1v1 builds but people don’t/can’t use them in higher teir PvP for obvious Meta reasons. Bunk Mesmers simply perform better.

Your best bet is to go with a Scrapper or Rev as these two classes can use their same exact meta build for 1v1 dueling and TPvP both. While almost every other class needs to change builds to be efficient in either…

Balance patch, please get here!

It may help the Ruby/Diamond team rank up by getting matched up by a lower mmr team, or losing less pips, or winning more pips.

Honestly, the loss of more or less pips should only count for that Amber player only. While the other higher division players compete against the other higher division players.

In other words, average team and division mmr is the same for matchmaking but the pip/score algorithm needs to count individually for each player at the end of the match, instead of a team wide average count.

Make this happen Anet.

The whole meta needs a redo. I would nerf Guardiabs Only if Rev, Mes, Ele etc are nerfed too. Remove this Bunker meta… then we can look at DH and see whats strong and what isn’t.

Like the meta right before Elite Specs/Hot was introduced and the only class not being meta is Ranger?

Yea. If Anet did it once, Anet can do it again.

But this is GW2, an MMORPG game that’s constantly being compared to other Moba games because people think the two are the same skill level and genre…
/facepalm

Couldn’t have said it better myself OP.

WuGzaGenius.5684:

Aktium.9506:

2 million something

Fights against 5 Minion master teams don’t count.

“Check out my AoE damages against NPCS guys!”

Can you please add a voting option for players who go over the time limit? Kind of like boxing where you can clearly see which person gave out the best blows throughout a fight. The judge (the mod’s) would elect a victor.

I feel that if I take the other person down to 20% health but I never go below 50%, then I should be the victor

You should probably label your title correctly so Anet can identify that this is a Bug thread and not a QQ one…

Yup, I got a teef stuck at that exact same spot. It happens when they peel away and jump off the cliff. The moment they hit the ground, pull with F1. This isn’t the only glitch spot.

I have bigger issues with Scrappers than Revs tbh. Out of all the classes, Revs counter me more. Well, them and Power Mesmers.

hotcarl.8621:

Also, remember that against certain builds that have multiple ways of cleansing a single condi (like HGH engi or medi guard w/ smite condition), the burning stacks are usually cleared before they can do much damage. Granted, you may still down those ppl in team fights when they are focusing on other players and/or condis that have been applied, but a (power) DH can also do the same. And I think the CC and stability DH offers gives it a slight edge in PvP.

I don’t see many burn guards these days, but that doesn’t mean it’s not still a good build. In fact, it may be even more viable now that people aren’t expecting to go up against them. Personally, I run a cele DH, relying on purging flames and symbol of energy for my burn stacks. The fire field, condi cleanse and reduced incoming condi duration that PF offers makes my cele trapper build extremely versatile and very supportive in team fights.

Plus, I absolutely love dropping test of faith and purging flames at the same time and then just pulling and knocking enemies back and forth thru the flaming ring of swords.

As much as I like that build type, it just isn’t on the same performance level as power DH.

Test of faith, traps, and PF isn’t nearly as rewarding on Cele amulet. You’ll do maybe 2k on ToF. Purging Flames can get easily cleansed off, it doesn’t stun anyone, and you don’t gain Fury or heals. The burn damages just isn’t their to sacrifice Trap or Medi utilities.

Atm, Burn Guardians are in a worse spot than prepatch. Before, we were viable 1v1 duelist builds but now, aside from beating some Revs with poor condi cleanses, we simply underperform compared to power DH.

Buran.3796:

Eponet.4829:

Honestly, a trap nerf might be a good thing for guardians at the moment.

They’re so powerful vs other glass cannons that the meta shifted to tanky builds, which as it so happened, also counter guardian in general.

False. The meta moved towards bruiser builds because they can tank while outpace in sustained dps most of the burst builds. Traps are almos useless in high level of play due they are predictable, easy to evade and fill slots for other utilities so once they are used the DH remains exposed and vulnerable.

Currently, meditrap is the most solid, well rounded, DH build, and is used broadly in random matches due they are easy to play. But even then, DH are outside the meta and serious matches because they are also SO EASY TO OUTPLAY.

Berserker specs are actually doomed due current iterations of non-DH/guardian classes. Also, the amount of people in random matches which keep entering in cqc against DH even after knowning which is going to happen is outstanding: makes me to belive that no matter the meta, those people will be always prone to lose the matches and to whine whatever the scene is.

You’re definitely right about how easy it is to outplay a DH compared to Mesmer, Rev or Scrapper but I wouldn’t say we’re not a viable 5th pick.

We’ll likely always lose to a rev but that’s the case for everyone. However niche, DH can 1v1 any Rev if we preplace traps near or on point before hand. Out 5th pick may have been taken by some other bunker classes but that’s only because teams are running double ele/mesmer/rev. This popular team comp leaves very little room for anyone.

It’s not that we’re no longer viable, we’re just not popular in this “capture a point first” poor meta.

Another Thief QQing about how OP Guardians are…

Yall QQ’d during the Zerk Power meta era…
Yall QQ’d during the Bunker Guard meta…
Yall QQ’d during the Burn Guard meta…

70% of all Guard thread complaints come from Thieves…

Yes, we counter you Thieves pretty hard now, compared to any other meta era, but i’d imagine you people would be used to it by now.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Saiyan.1704:

ReaperJr.5967:

Burtnik.5218:

ReaperJr.5967:

Yeah and there’s also heals for direct damage. Lmao.

There also heals for condi damage, unless conditions disable your healing abilities completely? But then why i even bother when youre spoiled by your immunity ez trait? I wouldnt want it to be taken from me either.

ReaperJr.5967:

Why not? This game isnt based on 1v1s. It’s a 5v5. Contesting a point in a matchup unfavourable to you? Get a team mate to rotate over.

This game is not even balanced around 5v5. All i see is class stacking while everything else (mostly) feels useless. Put 2 eles on point and call it a day.

Yeah and you’re spoiled by your condi ez spam and since diamond skin is the only trait that forces you to l2p, you want it taken away. I can sympathise. Anyone who has played condi builds know how easy they are to play. I wouldn’t want to make things difficult for myself either.

Your anti-ele bias is so blatant i’m not even gonna bother trying to make you see sense. I’ll bet 50 if diamond skin is nerfed you’ll be back complaining about cleansing water because we kitten out more cleanse than you apply condis lmao.

Brother, the biggest issue we all have with DS is… it doesn’t promote L2P. What other trait in the game forces another person to “work as a team”? It is a single passive trait that completely counters a built type. No other trait has the same effect. The whole conversation is about mechanical design here, not viability.

I understand your hatred towards incredibly easy, passive, condition playstyles. I too wish there was more skill involved with these condi builds.. but biasness aside, Diamond Skin is simply a poor trait design.

Give Ele extra condi cleanses per swap… more resistance on Earth activation.. anything. Just don’t completely single out a built type by a passive trait that has no counter play.

Elementalists don’t need more condition cleanse. They have plenty, they just don’t bother with it when they can get the same effect from one trait. Condition cleanse on aura, on regeneration, pulsed cleanse on the heal…that’s much more than average, on top of above average healing and permanent 40% damage reduction. D/D cele was overpowered before the nerf, but at least that didn’t promote this horrendously slow, stagnant gameplay.

Out of personal experience, I have to disagree but i’ll try not to sound too contradicting here.

What Diamond Skin does for Elementatlists is 2 things.

• Earth line – DS doesn’t just offer additional sustains from conditions, it also gives them a 0.5 version of Stability. Basically, removing CC abilities like Chill, Immobolize, and Slow effects. In the Power meta like we have, these items are more important than condi.
• Diamond Skin’s condi dmg negation helps SoloQ players because Condi is seen more in lower rank solo games.

DS should probably keep the same ‘soft anti-cc’ mechanic while also having minor resiliences against heavy condi damages.

The reason I believe why Ele’s still need some Condi resiliences is because i’ve mained Burn Guardian for half a year; as well as, seen other condi classes perform against the Ele. Ele really does need some additional form of condi protection.. in spite the Cele Meta Ele was prepatch. I vote for Reduced Condi Duration myself, like, 10% to 15%.

CooloutAC.3451:

more often then not, its a guy who sucked, 9 times out of 10. The guy who gets the lowest score on the team, and I don’t just mean lower, i mean significantly lower like he was in a diff league, because he successfully scared everyone away from him on a base and never had to fight or assist anybody, is very rare. I’m not saying its not possible or that a high scorer is the most valuable player always. Just most of the time

There’s only 1 rare scenario where that happens.

• The bunker class literally sits home all game.
• His team starts winning teamfights elsewhere.. in spite the potential outnumbered 4v5 in mid and far.

Most probable reason is they win the initial mid/far fight due to the other team going for Svanir (outnumbered mid) or going Far (1v1ing or 2v1ing a bunk class), etc. I.E – terrible beginning openings the opposite team has, resulting in losing nodes and snowballing the game due to not recovering from being out-rotated from the initial push.

.. it’s possible but don’t you dare think it happens “more often than not”. Quite literally the opposite because if he’s sitting home All Game.. then you’re More Likely going to get a 4v5 at mid… resulting in Your team losing fights all over the map except Home.

Not sure what’s more sad.. the poor personal score system Anet has in placed or the people who actually believes it’s a strong indication of “skill”.

This thread proves that people depend on these certain meaningless numbers on the screen… Anet, please revamp it further! Statistics only!

Talk about working the map! GJ guys lol

But yea, personal score means absolutely nothing… it’s only good for figuring out whether or not you’re winning team fights – knowing who’s dying more.

The personal score needs to be revamped to statistics only. More emphasis on Statistics please…

ReaperJr.5967:

Burtnik.5218:

ReaperJr.5967:

Yeah and there’s also heals for direct damage. Lmao.

There also heals for condi damage, unless conditions disable your healing abilities completely? But then why i even bother when youre spoiled by your immunity ez trait? I wouldnt want it to be taken from me either.

ReaperJr.5967:

Why not? This game isnt based on 1v1s. It’s a 5v5. Contesting a point in a matchup unfavourable to you? Get a team mate to rotate over.

This game is not even balanced around 5v5. All i see is class stacking while everything else (mostly) feels useless. Put 2 eles on point and call it a day.

Yeah and you’re spoiled by your condi ez spam and since diamond skin is the only trait that forces you to l2p, you want it taken away. I can sympathise. Anyone who has played condi builds know how easy they are to play. I wouldn’t want to make things difficult for myself either.

Your anti-ele bias is so blatant i’m not even gonna bother trying to make you see sense. I’ll bet 50 if diamond skin is nerfed you’ll be back complaining about cleansing water because we kitten out more cleanse than you apply condis lmao.

Brother, the biggest issue we all have with DS is… it doesn’t promote L2P. What other trait in the game forces another person to “work as a team”? It is a single passive trait that completely counters a built type. No other trait has the same effect. The whole conversation is about mechanical design here, not viability.

I understand your hatred towards incredibly easy, passive, condition playstyles. I too wish there was more skill involved with these condi builds.. but biasness aside, Diamond Skin is simply a poor trait design.

Give Ele extra condi cleanses per swap… more resistance on Earth activation.. anything. Just don’t completely single out a built type by a passive trait that has no counter play.

Legiion.7385:

Hi After testing some guard builds and running with my new rev i would say the old Burn guard is much more better in pvp than the DH .
Most of the DH i can counter so easy but Burn guard are still a very difficult enemy to fight .
What do u think ?
I think I give Burn guard in tpvp a new chance

Burn Guardian Pros

• Can beat most revs 1v1, when revs eat up most DH.
• Can beat most DH Guards 1v1 if DH don’t take Hunter’s Fortification but all other 1v1 fights are about the same level as DH, depending on their build setup.

Cons

• Lacks team AoE damages
• Lacks stability and stunbreaks; either we gain burn dmges and lose stab, or we lose dmges for stab gains :/
• Gets easily countered diamond skin
• Sustains worse in team fights, partly due to getting controlled easier by Mes, Necro,
  DH Pros
• Has more AoE damages
• More CC utilities
• Does fairly well 1v1 except for certain revs, scrappers and Eles. Non-issue if traps are preplaced.

Cons

• Revs, Scrappers and certain Ranger/Ele specs can outplay us 1v1

Burn Guard simply underperforms in the most important area of PvP, skirmish fights. Due to less stunbteak and stability utilities, they simply lack survivability as well as damages.

DH doesn’t offer much of anything for burn guardian so, core burn Guardian performs better than DH burn Guard. Their are certain core traits locked in Radiance/Valor/Virtues that’s needed.

StickerHappy.8052:

Team Conquest is 5v5, not 1v1

• Why would you 1v1 an ele on point if you play a condition class?
• Rotate?

It’s the mechanic, not the viability

• No other trait in the game counters a build-type.
• No other trait in the game counters a build-type.
• No other trait in the game counters a build-type.

It’s a terrible, passive, trait mechanic that shouldn’t exist. You can’t justify it.

StickerHappy.8052:

Daze on traps need an icd. 3 secs. So u can’t spam CC and call it skillfull

It’s strategic to place a trap (especially an instant cast one) on an enemy who is trying to stomp or rez. 1s is incredibly short for our 20 to 40s cd traps dude. Heck.. more people QQ about Maw Elite and that’s only viable in SoloQ… not TPvP. So that alone tells you how bad solo players are and how terrible they want to nerf things that’s not viable in high tier play.

If every other class is getting a sustain reduction, including DH, then we’re even more susceptible to power Thieves and Revs countering (literally.. countering) a DH. Don’t overestimate Dragonhunter’s position in the current meta.

morrolan.9608:

Toker back on thief for game 2

Because they knew he would win lol. Promode, he wouldn’t play Thief in championships.

Probably because that’s where all the solo players went.

Requires a meta change.

Mesmers have too much sustains
Think of any bunker class in the history of GW2 bunkers. Mesmers have 2x more sustains in this meta, in comparison to previous bunkers in their own metagame.

Back when it was Bunker and Zerker meta, Bunker Guardian at least had other power classes to balance him out, up till, the celestial meta. Then we had everyone celestial except Zerk Thief, Mesmers, and occasionally rampaging wars. So where is that Zerk Rampaging Warrior, Zerker backcapping Thief or that other Power class balancing this heavy Bunker Mesmer? All we really have is Rev in this meta (too much sustains for a DPS class) and 4 other sustain classes compared prepatch where we had at least 2 zerk classes on a team. This meta needs a change and that change is a mechanical balancing; lowering sustains across the board.

Revs
Imho, they’re in a better spot than Mesmer. Sure they could use a shave or two on their certain single-target burst abilities and/or sustain passive heals, but that’s all they really need, a shave.

Eles
In regards to the build that ele’s usually play, they’re in a bad spot. Unless Ele’s like the current build type they’re currently stuck in… I just hate to see them with only 1 viable build like always.

Give back to Warriors
I want our Rampaging brutes back. When you see a Warrior show up in a team fight.. you just don’t have that Warrior feel. They should have given Warriors the conditions Revs have, you know, because Wars got a Torch. Burn guardians still do it lots better. War sustains is fine even though people complain that it’s not. I say it is simply because everyone else’s needs to be lowered. Once that’s done, I would simply increase their damages by a hair.

Thieves
The class is incredibly hard to play in this meta and people call them next to useless… I was proven wrong when I actually met some good thieves. The good players can actually sustain in Daredevil while also offering great single target damages. So balancing this class is going to be tricky because pro thieves could easily abuse any buff Anet gives them; too much damage and we’ll see another 7k backstabbing + a tanky thief. Too little and they’re stuck with being useless. I would actually not change a thing, and simply lower the sustains of other classes so thieves, the better players, could burst these “meta” classes easier.

DH
Sustains, along with other classes, needs to be lowed by a hair. Otherwise he’s “in a good spot”.

Scrapper
Only a small shave in sustains or Hammer damages, but not both. They’re otherwise in a good spot.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

Malchior.5732:

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

Saiyan.1704:

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

Josh Davis.6015:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Upcoming-Balance-Changes-Week-of-December-14-2015

Did you guys seriously just nerf based on a meta team build?

FYI Not everyone plays on premades.

How complicated is it for anet to make a non-stacking class in this game?

…wut?

Please forgive him. He knows not what he says.

Hmmm actually I do.

DH still untouched? Maybe because it isn’t used in the meta builds XD

-> Mesmer and Rev are higher priority right now
-> This is more of a small hotfix rather than a full balance patch
-> Why would they NOT use the meta as a guideline?

2 condi REVS together is what truly made Mallyx unbeatable. (Mesmer needed a nerf, not surprised there) I agree Mallyx needed balancing, but why overnerf it? A single Revenant 1 on 1 running full condi wasn’t that hard to beat.

But seriously DH? Again escapes a nerf. The only reason Rev and mesmer were considered a priority was because of the QQ of the meta build.

The QQ was rightfully justified lol…

Where are the OP DH builds in Tournaments? Oh right, Revs, Eles, Scrappers, etc pushed them out (still a viable 5th mind you).

Can’t handle a DH in SoloQ? Get better at your class or blame your team comp you’re with.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

Josh Davis.6015:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Upcoming-Balance-Changes-Week-of-December-14-2015

Did you guys seriously just nerf based on a meta team build?

FYI Not everyone plays on premades.

How complicated is it for anet to make a non-stacking class in this game?

…wut?

Please forgive him. He knows not what he says.

Eldervakten.9147:

Its impossible to play spvp anymore. Just put one DH on each point and you win.

Title is a typo guys. OP is obviously talking about Bunker Mesmers because we all know DH gets countered by at least 3 classes in this game lol

Scrappers do really well against DH 1v1 actually.
They’re mobile
Have a weird damaging bubble shield thingy
A block and invulnerabilities
Stronk focus target dps skills with hammer
Mobility
Can dodge through a trap

Test of Faith is only unblockable when you cross the triggered trap. To say the trap alone kills you is HUGE L2P issues… Engi has an easier time out-smarting a DH than DH out-smarting the Engi.

Same goes for Rev, they eat DH for breakfast unless we preplace traps ahead of time.

I wanted to be a righteous class with selfish and unselfish attributes. What I realized later was, Guardian touched on so many aspects, like support, dps, sustains etc, that we were never truly specialized in just 1 or 2 things. That led to many weaknesses compared to other class. It’s why dps guard was never a viable 5th.

I love DH because a bit of these weaknesses were removed while some how managing to keep the core values of Guardian. Everything is unique about DH compared to other classes.

It’s not that DH is no longer viable, the meta preference simply changed and DH is no longer popular anymore.
Heck, DH was one of the first unique eye-candy specs everyone tried and stuck with until they grabbed a hold of mesmers, scrappers and revs. Even then, these classes took some getting used to while people still played DH for easiness. People QQ’d about the popular class that was everywhere until the meta shifted and players suddenly had less issues with DH.

Now, people are leaning towards Mesmer to bunk points and Revs to single out targets, along with other support classes that can pretty much 1v1 anything. DH is only good at 1v1 against these classes if they preplace traps before hand, strategically defending a point. Their abilities are otherwise very animated to counter, unlike Revs who seem to be the class that’s hard to beat.

tl;dr
The only thing that changed about DH is popularity. People still prefer at least 1 DH on a team while the rest are a mix of bunk mesmer, rev, ele, scrapper, and occasionally necro, due to new meta popularity. DH isn’t bad by any means, they’re still a viable 5th.

p.s. I despise maw elite with a passion. I think it’s only viable against soloq players.