Guild Wars 2

People will mark themselves online, send the message, and then go back invisible.

Odinens.5920:

Shadelang.3012:

Is the 2k rank minimum for the FINAL REWARDS gonna turn people off? Maybe,…probably..GOOD.

But it will give people that are dedicated to the game mode something to look forward to.

And it may encourage other people to try the game mode and realize they love it.

As such. I STRONGLY disagree with anyone attempting to lower the rank limit.

If this seems super out of hand for you and turns you off from the game mode. You weren’t going to stay there long anyway.

Really? From what I understand there was a way to cheese the system at launch of this game that allowed people to gain butt-tons of ranks.

I have said this before….I have only been playing WvW since around 2 weeks before the patch. I play 2-4 hours in there every night. It’s all I’ve been doing lately during my play time. In fact the only PvE I’ve been doing lately is to check the Pact Agents every day.

I’m pretty dedicated to WvW, and don’t see me leaving it for any significant amount of time in the near future. With that said, I am only rank 136! So, you’re telling me it’s fine that it’ll take me around 2 friggin years to obtain rank 2000 and the gear I’ll FINALLY be able to acquire?!? What’s the point? I can already make ascended gear in PvE and have already started crafting a PvE set (and I’ve only been playing this game for a few months). A few months compared to a 1.5+ years for a full set of T2 from WvW? How is that even remotely comparable?

The rewards are not reasonably obtainable for most players, and I hate to tell you, but if you guys were hoping this new system was going to bring a ton of new people to WvW, the obnoxious length of time it will take to get to these ranks will repulse rather than attract new people.

Good on you for all of you that have been dedicated to WvW for so long. It is……commendable. But don’t expect many newer players to become as dedicated as you with the reward system the way it is now.

So there shouldn’t be any tears unique to getting high ranks in WvW because it takes too long for new players to get there? That’s just as bad as no rewards early enough in the ranks. Because the players get all of the rewards within the first 10% of the track and then have nothing to work for and may leave due to lack of rewards where they had been getting rewards previously.

PabbyGaul.9682:

I dont think there is a middle ground.

Basically what this thread wants is a paradox.

Wvwers wanted rewards for rank.
Rank takes a long time to get.
New ppl want these same rewards without the need for rank.

Anets has already done about all they can do to try and middle ground. The legendary is easier to obtain than ascended(pve candy). Ascended requires medium rank (wvwer candy) legendary no rank. Pips and reward track vary by rank so even low ranks get reward chests. Imagine if only your pip chests were hard gated(rank req).

So. The most egalitarian thing would be to remove pip system and rank gate the armor and legendary. Remove skirkish tickets amd use badges instead.

Yeah, some ppl will be wearing all the armor tomorrow but atleast no more pip farming and pip complaining.

The result would then be these same ppl complaining about the badge cost and rank req then of course the answer is “go get em” as they arent rank gated unlike tickets.

As far as rank req for cool stuff I dont see a solution. See paradox above.

There are new players that just think the rate at which PIPS are earned is slightly off and that bumping the base by a small number would be enough. So there is a middle ground.

Linken.6345:

Seera.5916:

Linken.6345:

Seera.5916:

Mel.3064:

Astralporing.1957:

Mel.3064:

More raid bosses may lower the time gate, but the time you need to spend raiding each week will go up in return.

Yes, if you want to obtain something faster, you need to spend more time each day on it. Nothing special about it – almost everything in this game works that way.

Indeed, but currently the 13 bosses can be handled by the time budget of a casual, it will get harder as more bosses are added. Not that I expect any new raid before expansion 2.

But for the casual that finds a raid boss that’s just really hard for them do, more bosses means they get more % of the available LI each day.

Considering there are titles for things that require no skill at all, it’s not reasonable to say that if there is a title for getting all of the HoT legendary armor, than the core legendary weapons and the HoT legendary weapons each get their own title.

Why not tho they take just as much dedication to make/farm for as the armor tho and if someone want to buy said title with their credit card ( talking about the one for all core legendaries) how is that any diffrent then the guy who buy raid kills to get their armors?

Not sure what you’re getting at here. What point are you trying to make? Because you seem to think I’m against weapons getting titles based on what impression I get from the post. I’m not. So maybe I’m misunderstanding what point you’re trying to make?

Well maybe I read it wrong but saying it’s not reasonable to say that if there is a title for getting all of the HoT legendary armor, than the core legendary weapons and the HoT legendary weapons each get their own title.

Sure sound like you say legendary armor should get a title but weapons should not.

Oops. Meant to say if it IS reasonable for HoT legendary armor to get a title, then the core weapons and HoT weapons are reasonable candidates for getting titles.

Linken.6345:

Seera.5916:

Mel.3064:

Astralporing.1957:

Mel.3064:

More raid bosses may lower the time gate, but the time you need to spend raiding each week will go up in return.

Yes, if you want to obtain something faster, you need to spend more time each day on it. Nothing special about it – almost everything in this game works that way.

Indeed, but currently the 13 bosses can be handled by the time budget of a casual, it will get harder as more bosses are added. Not that I expect any new raid before expansion 2.

But for the casual that finds a raid boss that’s just really hard for them do, more bosses means they get more % of the available LI each day.

Considering there are titles for things that require no skill at all, it’s not reasonable to say that if there is a title for getting all of the HoT legendary armor, than the core legendary weapons and the HoT legendary weapons each get their own title.

Why not tho they take just as much dedication to make/farm for as the armor tho and if someone want to buy said title with their credit card ( talking about the one for all core legendaries) how is that any diffrent then the guy who buy raid kills to get their armors?

Not sure what you’re getting at here. What point are you trying to make? Because you seem to think I’m against weapons getting titles based on what impression I get from the post. I’m not. So maybe I’m misunderstanding what point you’re trying to make?

Mel.3064:

Astralporing.1957:

Mel.3064:

More raid bosses may lower the time gate, but the time you need to spend raiding each week will go up in return.

Yes, if you want to obtain something faster, you need to spend more time each day on it. Nothing special about it – almost everything in this game works that way.

Indeed, but currently the 13 bosses can be handled by the time budget of a casual, it will get harder as more bosses are added. Not that I expect any new raid before expansion 2.

But for the casual that finds a raid boss that’s just really hard for them do, more bosses means they get more % of the available LI each day.

Considering there are titles for things that require no skill at all, it’s not reasonable to say that if there is a title for getting all of the HoT legendary armor, than the core legendary weapons and the HoT legendary weapons each get their own title.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

zhonnika.1784:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

HazyDaisy.4107:

It’s a merged thread because there’s so many complaints about a 3-1/2 week old system. I’m not going to read the previous posts, because I wasnt talking to only 1 of the previous posters in paricular.

Whatever anyone doesn’t like about the system for whatever reason, understand some people didn’t get anything whill leveling wvw, not even the joy of waiting a couple of weeks for the possibility of something.

I thought wvwers don’t care about rewards. I thought it was all about the joy of playing wvw. Why do they care what happens with the rewards?

It’s not that we don’t care about rewards! It’s just that was pointless for YEARS to hope we would get them. The closest thing you could hope to acquire as a ‘reward’ was maybe an ascended chest on rank up. Or maybe a ring. Other than that… crickets

so if i say i play only for rewards, im met with your doing it wrong, if your not playing wvw for fun and just enjoying the game mode you’re not who we want playing wvw.

If i say ok then who cares about the rewards so then just lower the requirement for the rewards because who cares about rewards right? its the game mode that matters. I’m met with – these are our rewards! and we care about them very much, and you shouldn’t have them at all! This game mode is not meant for you and you should leave.

So its whatever argument wvwers feel like presenting to which ever logical argument is presented to them, as long as it makes them appear to be “right” then that’s all that matters. Who cares what new players or veteran players who play all game modes think… right?

Even though wvwers are asking for new players to join but they don’t want to listen to new/returning players opinions about how pips or rewards are handled, because this is “their” game mode and they don’t want anyone to change it, least of all new/returning players.

Just because we don’t agree with you or be convinced to agree with you after your arguments, does not mean that we don’t listen to what you say. It just happens to be things we disagree with.

So how about we not accuse either side of things that we can’t prove because we aren’t mind readers? You aren’t alone in claiming things you can’t prove and it’s not just your side doing it either.

The problem with just lowering the requirements, then you run the risk of the carrots being too “front end” loaded and leave nothing for when the player is a 2+ year vet. Which could lead to turn overs that happen too quickly for WvW to have a stable population and things become worse for WvW than they were before this patch hit.

And knee jerk adjusting isn’t good either. It could lead to over corrections in either direction and take longer to reach the magic numbers. I’d rather they sit for 3-6 months and let things stabilize in WvW before doing too much adjusting unless they feel things are grossly off. And unfortunately, none of us can really know what they intended for T2 and T3 armors to do.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

The requirements are fine as they are since they do not prevent you from acquiring a tier of equipment. Only the skin is locked.

If it was up to me, the requirements would be even higher.

If you only play WvW for a skin, you need to stop right now. The end game content should be your primary reward, not the pixelized carrot.

I disagree, the skins are a carrot on a stick, designed to entice new players to enter wvw, or veteran players to return. Its working lots of people came in to checkout the skins and looked at what it required to earn it. Most got dissuaded and left because the requirement was too high, the grind was too much.

If people dont play the game mode its because the game mode is not fun, which is a seperate issue. The carrot kept people engaged enough to check wvw out but not enough to stay. If it was lowered a bit then perhaps the carrot would be more enticing, enough for people to at least stay long enough to obtain it.

As it is now its just too much and players are leaving. The only ones I see are going for the back piece and even they think that should be easier to obtain (a testament to how much most players apparently dislike wvw, or the grind for the backpiece is even too much or both.)

Conversely, if the rewards are put too low, players achieve everything quick and then leave the game/mode. Which is just as bad as having rewards too high.

Do they have the magic numbers for base PIPS and Max tickets and rank requirements? Don’t know. But rushing into making a change isn’t the right thing to do either.

They should give some time for averages to come out so they don’t over correct.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Turk.5460:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Exactly!

The last thing the game mode needs is more skin scavengers. It is because I care more for the game mode than the reward that I do not want the reward to be more accessible.

I’ve seen what it did with pvp and the ascension. Let’s learn from that. People who don’t care about the game mode won’t stay. If you enjoy WvW, you will stay regardless of the presence of a reward or not.

Do you like having fresh new allies and fresh new meat to kill? Do you not realize that the point of the skins is to get the “scavengers” to try out the game mode? If they enter WvW for the rewards, then leave a day or two later due to the rewards being too difficult – that is not a proper WvW experience. I certainly wouldn’t have gotten a feel for WvW (which is now my only game mode) if I only tried it out for a couple of days.

People grinded out ascension in what, a month? Sure, lets not have that type of thing here in WvW, but there is absolutely no reason that it should take years of reaching for a goal for certain people to reap the benefits. – Yes, I know, we played for years without rewards, but this goal did not exist for us to even reach for at that time.

I welcome new players who are interrested in the game mode. The rest? Not so much.

This game is nicknamed Fashion Wars 2 for a reason. Expecting all players of a mode to not be skin chasers is unrealistic. Most players are not the type who aren’t affected by low rewards. Most players, even if they say they don’t care about rewards, deep down if the rewards are too lacking, they’ll move on to something more rewarding.

And that is a scary position for a game mode to be in. You need players to convince developers to spend money and time on it, but if all you do is chase players away due to lack of rewards…

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Where did I imply ALL rewards should be acquired fast, or fall within a current time frame for casual players? Of course rewards such as the last tier or third will take a long time, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It takes 4+months to get the legendary armor, and a few months to get the backpieces. Yet, you’re able to expedite that process reasonably well.

The point is being made is acquiring pips, to go through a tier and pass through wood for example requires a great amount of time, which others have noted as 40hrs+. I asked you where is that present in any game mode that actually has also long term goals, you couldn’t even answer and act obtuse like I’m asking for a 30kAP armor set to be awarded to people who don’t put the time into AP chasing. I even made it clear to you that I’m not talking about T3 armor, I’m talking about T2 or weapons for example, and put it into prospective that it takes a week to just get one T2 boot.

And I answered your question about where there is anything else like it: ANet is allowed to add things that do not have comparable things in other modes.

YOU SAID IT! That you think all rewards should be able to be earned with a reasonable time frame.

Let’s assume the following conditions:

1. You’re able to get to max PIPS and max ticket count every time.
2. You work towards one goal at a time.
3. You don’t miss a week.
4. You hit the required rank the moment you hit the right number of tickets
5. Perfect world scenario for anything I missed

Max Tickets per week is 175.
Each year has 52 weeks.
Total tickets per year is 9100
Total tickets in 2 years is: 18200
Total tickets in 3 years is 27300

People say it takes 2 years to get the 2K armor set. Regardless of whether or not that’s accurate, we’re going to use it for the sake of making sure we’re both on the same page.

And let’s assume for the sake of argument that it takes 1 year to get the T2 armor – no one’s coughed up a time frame. Insert however much time you believe it takes currently where ever you see 1 year for this part of the example. You believe that 1 year is unreasonable. So if another reward comes around that takes 1 year + 1 day to get, wouldn’t that also be unreasonable? So if they put in a reward that takes getting to max rank to achieve and that takes 9 years (assuming each tier takes Tier – 1 years to make), that would therefore be unreasonable.

If you haven’t figured it out by now, I’m very literal. If you say X time is unreasonable, I’m going to assume that you feel X+1 time is unreasonable, too.

Edited to fix the quoting

Musica Arcaida.4685:

You said, “Learn to accept what being a casual is.”

You do realize you can casually play, and make the process go by faster reasonably through how well you do in every other game mode? See, you don’t seem to realize it’s not about expecting to be awarded the same as people who are higher ranked, the issue is the amount of time required to achieve anything reasonably.

You then said, "Really, there’s a requirement to play for 40+ hours to even be eligible to get the rewards? I think you’re stretching here by continuously mentioning that. "

It’s pointed out right in the OP, where he states "Looking at my pip gain in silver—between 33% and 50% of my total pips are due to my rank. If I was in gold I would be earning over 50% of my pips from my rank. I also play a fair bit on outnumbered maps because I solo and group roam more often than not to support my team. The largest pip gains are outnumbered (largest share of pips earned) followed by slightly less pips from rank.

The problem is multiplicative. I get 2 pips per tick at silver. In the time a bronze player earns 60, I earn 120. Gold earns 180. Platinum earns 240.

The reward track assumes players will earn “enough” pips at a certain playtime per day.

3 pips per tick is 40.27 hours
5 pips per tick is 24.16 hours
7 pips per tick is 16.9 hours
9 pips per tick is 13.42 hours"

You act as if this is analogous to someone complaining they need 30kAP+ to get the radiant or hellfire armor. There’s no issue with those long term goals, just as there’s no complaint that legendary armor will take 4months+ to get or the back-pieces will take a few months or more as well. The issue is laid out when you were asked, show me where in any other game mode does it require for newer players to spend 40+ hrs to get max amount of currencies for some rewards? Instead of comprehending that issue, ones like you move the goal post and say there shouldn’t be instant gratification or expectation of newer players being awarded on par with higher ranked players. The situation would be similar to raiding, if you’re new you can still get max magnetite shards weekly, and go through your collection reasonably well. However, a person that has all the masteries and equipment can get further rewarded more by being able to do the challenge motes, raid sells, and have a easier time clearing, which all again can be achieved through skillful play.

You then said, “And what, are they supposed to say: sorry those of you at high ranks, you can’t get any rewards specific to your rank, it’s too much of a time commitment for those who play casually? Is that what you’re really trying to suggest?”

Why do you have such dichotomous thinking? It’s not a either or issue. The issue isn’t there shouldn’t be long term goals, or ones with high ranks should attain more. Rather the pip system for newer players makes no sense, and goes against other game modes where all the features you want is intact, but with a reasonable amount awarded to everyone, especially those with skillful play.

And you seem to fail to grasp that for casual players some rewards WILL fall outside of the time frame that makes the reward worthwhile for them strive for at the current time. And that that is completely reasonable to expect out of an MMO that’s not on it’s death bed. And with talk of another expansion pack coming, GW2 is not on its death bed.

And you failed to read the word REQUIRED. You aren’t required to max out the PIPS per tick in order to progress in whatever it is that you want. And maybe that was INTENTIONAL. Maybe ANet did not want a majority of players to max out the PIPS per tick. To always give players a drive to play more. And that is the goal of any MMO: to get players to play more. Just because a cap exists, doesn’t mean that ANet expects many players to hit it. To have an urge to move to the outnumbered map – if you’re at cap, where’s the reward for going to an outnumbered map?

And maybe the point about long term goals wasn’t a counter to the fact that it’s currently the first of it’s kind. And I hope they introduce similar mechanics to PvE and PvP. ANet’s allowed to introduce things that do not have something similar in game. They wouldn’t be able to come up with wildly new content or reward schemes if they were locked into keeping everything comparable at every step of the way.

You said there shouldn’t be rewards that can’t earned in a reasonable time frame. So I assumed based on your current position that the time it takes to earn the T3 armor is not a reasonable time frame to you. Therefore, anything that would award players at higher ranks would therefore also be earned in an unreasonable time frame for you.

Or are you just not communicating well that you feel the rank and what not for the T3 armor is fine, you just don’t like the speed at which PIPS are earned? With threads being merged, it’s harder to keep track of who has what exact position.

I wouldn’t have a problem with base PIPS being raised. That way players can still feel some sense of progress without feeling the need to max out. So if the current spread in min PIPS and max PIPS is 10, if the base PIPS are increased by 10, then the max would be raised by 10 as well. 10 is just an example and not necessarily the value that should be used.

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Seera.5916:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Seera.5916:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Sarika.3756:

It’s actually somewhat similar to fractals dailies. If I do t4 fractal dailies, I get all the daily chests. Because I’ve been playing them long enough to have the AR and know the mechanics.

Should high level fractals players have to grind out all the low level dailies, too?

Horrible comparison. ANYONE that does T4 fotms gets rewarded with lower tier chests, the only thing needed is AR, which is gold gated NOT SKILL gated. Even if we were to take what you said on face value, you can progress fast enough to get enough AR to do T4s to gain all chests, again by skillful play. The same can’t be said for WvW newer players spending a inordinate amount of time to get awarded reasonably.

So long term goals are now unreasonable?

It’s not like the first reward given out by the tickets requires rank 2000. There are definitely items that can be purchased while progressing up through the ranks.

You said, “So long term goals are now unreasonable?”.

Are you that obtuse to recognize that the time needed to get the max amount of weekly tickets (To simply get T2 Armor NOT T3 or T4 or Mistforge weapons), or even a good amount of them requires newer players to almost no life? You think that’s reasonable to try forcing people to no life a casual game? Where is that a feature in Raids,T4 Fotms, or PvP? In those game modes again, depending on your skill you can expedite the process of rewards weekly regardless if you’re new or not. There’s long term goals but not to the extent of almost 40hrs+ being required to make a reasonable amount of progress; as is the case in WvW.

I think it’s reasonable for ANet to have things that require 2+ years to get by casuals.

Those things are called long term goals.

Casuals (I am myself a casual) should accept that they will rarely get things done at the same pace as hard core players. And in this instance casual vs hard core is purely a time definition. And that some things will fall out of the realm of what they wish to spend their limited time on. And that that is perfectly fine and acceptable.

Learn the difference between long term goals, and spending 40hrs+ a week to get enough tickets to buy one T2 boots. Where in any other game mode is that a feature of? There have been people in this thread that nicely pointed out the differences with every other game mode to this unreasonable amount time required weekly in WvW for tickets. In T4s Fotms, want all the rewards, spend about 100 to200g on AR and be skilled with a good group, and you’ll progress through your rewards and collection for back-pieces quickly based on your skill. In PVP, you want the backpiece (a long term goal), where that’s actual skill than a zerg bukkakke, you get awarded pips and go through the ranks accordingly based on how well you do, which eventually leads to the backpiece in two seasons or three. Same thing is the case with raids, all long term goals that are achievable at a reasonable pace that’s expedited with skill. Again, show me where in any other game mode does it require for newer players to spend 40+ hrs to get max amount of currencies for some rewards?

Learn to accept what being a casual is.

Not everything in this game has to be obtained by casuals playing at their usual pace in 1 year or less.

Really, there’s a requirement to play for 40+ hours to even be eligible to get the rewards? I think you’re stretching here by continuously mentioning that. That is only required to max out the PIPS earned per week. Guess what? It’s not required to do that in order to get the rewards. So let’s stop talking about that as if it’s a requirement.

And what, are they supposed to say: sorry those of you at high ranks, you can’t get any rewards specific to your rank, it’s too much of a time commitment for those who play casually? Is that what you’re really trying to suggest?

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Seera.5916:

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Sarika.3756:

It’s actually somewhat similar to fractals dailies. If I do t4 fractal dailies, I get all the daily chests. Because I’ve been playing them long enough to have the AR and know the mechanics.

Should high level fractals players have to grind out all the low level dailies, too?

Horrible comparison. ANYONE that does T4 fotms gets rewarded with lower tier chests, the only thing needed is AR, which is gold gated NOT SKILL gated. Even if we were to take what you said on face value, you can progress fast enough to get enough AR to do T4s to gain all chests, again by skillful play. The same can’t be said for WvW newer players spending a inordinate amount of time to get awarded reasonably.

So long term goals are now unreasonable?

It’s not like the first reward given out by the tickets requires rank 2000. There are definitely items that can be purchased while progressing up through the ranks.

You said, “So long term goals are now unreasonable?”.

Are you that obtuse to recognize that the time needed to get the max amount of weekly tickets (To simply get T2 Armor NOT T3 or T4 or Mistforge weapons), or even a good amount of them requires newer players to almost no life? You think that’s reasonable to try forcing people to no life a casual game? Where is that a feature in Raids,T4 Fotms, or PvP? In those game modes again, depending on your skill you can expedite the process of rewards weekly regardless if you’re new or not. There’s long term goals but not to the extent of almost 40hrs+ being required to make a reasonable amount of progress; as is the case in WvW.

I think it’s reasonable for ANet to have things that require 2+ years to get by casuals.

Those things are called long term goals.

Casuals (I am myself a casual) should accept that they will rarely get things done at the same pace as hard core players. And in this instance casual vs hard core is purely a time definition. And that some things will fall out of the realm of what they wish to spend their limited time on. And that that is perfectly fine and acceptable.

Mel.3064:

Seera.5916:

If they put in a similar title for owning all Legendary weapons from the base and a similar title for owning all Legendary weapons from HoT, then I’d be fine with a own all legendary armor from HoT title being added.

But there’s nothing special about legendary armor that’s not special about legendary weapons so it wouldn’t be fair to reward getting all of the armor pieces but not getting all of the weapons.

Legendary Armor is special because you are required to raid 12 weeks for one set and a total of 60 sets for all 3 sets and spend thousands of gold in addition. Legendary weapons are not timegated or skillgated by anything last time I checked.

And there are titles for collecting junk.

I’d be fine if the armor one gave more AP for it, it is more skill based than legendary weapons are.

cpchow.7416:

BTW, the people arguing in the topics of Unfair Pip acquisition and Lower the Rank Requirement for Armor are meaningless. Golem rush double WXP week and WvW tournament will simple solve all the problems. Who cares about rank requirement and pipssssssssssssssss if i can rush rank quickly and acquire the tickets directly.

No one in those threads are meaningless, no matter which side of the argument they fall on. The fact that you would even suggest that shows much towards your character.

Musica Arcaida.4685:

Sarika.3756:

It’s actually somewhat similar to fractals dailies. If I do t4 fractal dailies, I get all the daily chests. Because I’ve been playing them long enough to have the AR and know the mechanics.

Should high level fractals players have to grind out all the low level dailies, too?

Horrible comparison. ANYONE that does T4 fotms gets rewarded with lower tier chests, the only thing needed is AR, which is gold gated NOT SKILL gated. Even if we were to take what you said on face value, you can progress fast enough to get enough AR to do T4s to gain all chests, again by skillful play. The same can’t be said for WvW newer players spending a inordinate amount of time to get awarded reasonably.

So long term goals are now unreasonable?

It’s not like the first reward given out by the tickets requires rank 2000. There are definitely items that can be purchased while progressing up through the ranks.

I think, they should have skins sprinkled out through all of the ranks.

Maybe add in another set to bridge the gap between T2 and T3.

Then have a new set every 2K up to the max ranks.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I would say the fundamental difference between my opinion in the reward system compared to most others, is that I dislike grind and feel that all grind should be negated by skill. Most wvw vets seem to love grind. And they associate grind as prestige and in some cases as substitution for skill. These 2 viewpoints cannot be reconciled.

It’s only a grind if you want it and want it now.

If you aren’t in a rush to get the armor, then it’s not a grind. Something you’re failing to at least show you agree on.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Seera.5916:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Ashen.2907:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

The reward…penalizes newer players

No it doesn’t.

Being rewarded commensurate with your investment is not a penalty. Getting what you paid for (with time as the currency) is not a penalty.

2 ways of looking at it
1st) the higher my rank is, the quicker I get my pips which means quicker ticket cap and more rewards and I don’t have to do anything special to get this currently, except for all my previous hours of gameplay.

2nd) the lower my rank is the more I am penalized and have to put in many more hours to achieve the same rewards as veterans, even though I am doing the same thing as the veteran player right now and in some cases playing beter then they are.

Add in the fact that you need to gain hundreds of ranks which takes hundreds to thousands of hours of gameplay in order to influence pip gain in a meaningful way and yes I’d say that’s penalizing. Doesn’t really promote people to play well, the carrot on the stick is raised to high, endless grind results in little to no pip gain causing players to endlessly be stuck at “low rank.” So everyday/month/year they get low pips and are always considered low rank. Not very motivating.

How in the world are you penalized for not being a veteran?

Please tell me. And no, not getting as many PIPS as fast as a veteran is not a penalty.

Is there some debuff or condition that gets applied?
Are you not able to enter Eternal Battlegrounds?
Are you bumped to lower in the queue if a veteran queues for the same map?
Do you have to pay more tickets or Badges of Honor for things?

What is the penalty?

Penalizing is not a penalty

When someone sees someone play X number of hours and get y (veteran)
And someone else played 4xs as much to get the exact same y. That is a penalizing.

The baseline for how things are attained are always measured in how fast someone can attain something.

If the baseline for how fast a person hits ticket cap is about 10-12 hrs per week and others are required to play 30-40 hrs a week to get the same rewards, simply because they haven’t played previously, then being low rank is penalizing compared to being high rank. Thus the reward for being high rank is to not be penalized in regards to hours spent trying to earn pips and wvw rewards.

This is an argument about perception, and the perception of new players is that playing wvw at a low rank is associated with greatly reduced rewards due to an artificially implemented mechanic which rewards less for the same activities.

Penalizing = verb
Penalty = noun

They are different forms of the SAME WORD.

Definition of penalizing:

1. to impose a penalty on (someone), as for breaking a law or rule
2. to inflict a handicap or disadvantage on
3. (sport) to award a free stroke, point, or penalty against (a player or team)
4. to declare (an act) legally punishable; make subject to a penalty.

Now before you claim definition #2 as a victory:

Definition of penalty:

1. a punishment imposed or incurred for a violation of law or rule.
2. a loss, forfeiture, suffering, or the like, to which one subjects oneself by non-fulfillment of some obligation
3. something that is forfeited, as a sum of money.
4. a disadvantage imposed upon the competitors or upon one side for infraction of the rules of a game, sport, etc.
5. consequence or disadvantage attached to any action, condition, etc.

So how about you answer my question now that we’ve cleared up the definitions of the words penalizing and penalty.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Ashen.2907:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

The reward…penalizes newer players

No it doesn’t.

Being rewarded commensurate with your investment is not a penalty. Getting what you paid for (with time as the currency) is not a penalty.

2 ways of looking at it
1st) the higher my rank is, the quicker I get my pips which means quicker ticket cap and more rewards and I don’t have to do anything special to get this currently, except for all my previous hours of gameplay.

2nd) the lower my rank is the more I am penalized and have to put in many more hours to achieve the same rewards as veterans, even though I am doing the same thing as the veteran player right now and in some cases playing beter then they are.

Add in the fact that you need to gain hundreds of ranks which takes hundreds to thousands of hours of gameplay in order to influence pip gain in a meaningful way and yes I’d say that’s penalizing. Doesn’t really promote people to play well, the carrot on the stick is raised to high, endless grind results in little to no pip gain causing players to endlessly be stuck at “low rank.” So everyday/month/year they get low pips and are always considered low rank. Not very motivating.

How in the world are you penalized for not being a veteran?

Please tell me. And no, not getting as many PIPS as fast as a veteran is not a penalty.

Is there some debuff or condition that gets applied?
Are you not able to enter Eternal Battlegrounds?
Are you bumped to lower in the queue if a veteran queues for the same map?
Do you have to pay more tickets or Badges of Honor for things?

What is the penalty?

So you’re going to gloss by Ashen and I pointing out that you have posted that you didn’t think the system was unfair in one post but are now saying that it is?

I am now convinced that you don’t truly believe the system is unfair or dissuasive. You just want the armor as soon as possible. You really want it now, but realize that you won’t be able to convince anyone of that, so you’re compromising on that. And since you know you won’t be able to convince ANet that due to selfish reasons you want things to be done faster, you’ve come up with non-selfish reasons to spout out that you don’t really believe in but can at least put up a somewhat decent argument to support those reasons.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Ashen.2907:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Ashen.2907:

Everyone who puts in the same amount of time, effort, etc earns the same number of pips.

A new player who pushes his rank to 500 will earn the same number of pips as a player who has worked his way to rank 500 over the course of a year.

Asking that new wvwers earn the same number of pips as veterans without spending the same requisite time and effort is asking that new players be given an advantage over veterans.

“I know that it took veterans 1/2/3/4 years to accumulate the prerequisites for a certain level of reward, but I want that same level of reward immediately, without putting in the time and effort”

your acting like i think the system is “unfair” i never said it was unfair, its dissuasive to players the carrot is set too high, all im asking is that they lower it.

You might want to edit your original post to more accurately reflect your intentions then because it supports my comment and contradicts yours.

the system is fair for people in wvw when you are thinking about wvw in a vaccum and ignoring the rest of the game. If the entire game was wvw then yes everyone grind gets you your ranks and you reap your rewards and thats it. But anet has mutliple game modes and a long history of doing things a certain way.

When you compare the wvw reward system to the rest of the game it gives players in wvw an unfair advantage in terms of time played over players who dont play the game mode. No other game mode rewards this type of time commitment like wvw does. its unfair and dissuasive to new players or even people who have around rank 1k, which is why i suggested it should be brought in line with other game modes and made comparable, or i suggested that other game modes should get the same system of time played = rewards (although I dont like this). it rewards straight up play time while severely handicapping those who are just starting out, for no good reason. No other game mode does this. In that sense its unfair in relation to the rest of the game.

Just because they do things one way for a while, does not mean they are locked into doing things that way for forever. They are allowed to make changes that deviate from how they’ve done things in the past. If they were locked into it, ANet would never be able to give WvW any attention because they’ve had a track record of not giving WvW much attention at all.

And maybe, just maybe, WvW is just the first place they’re putting in rewards that are based on time spent playing. And that maybe, just maybe, there will be equivalent reward systems put into place for PvP and PvE in the future.

You previously said the system wasn’t unfair and now you’re saying it is unfair. Please, please, please, make up your mind if you want your arguments listened to. Because if you can’t argue without contradicting yourself, then it calls into question if the reasons you give are the ones you actually believe or if you’re just covering for more selfish reasons.

It does not handicap anyone! Please enlighten me, WvW players: what conditions or debuffs or restrictions do you have if you don’t have the armor set? What are you guys not allowed to do?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Ashen.2907:

Everyone who puts in the same amount of time, effort, etc earns the same number of pips.

A new player who pushes his rank to 500 will earn the same number of pips as a player who has worked his way to rank 500 over the course of a year.

Asking that new wvwers earn the same number of pips as veterans without spending the same requisite time and effort is asking that new players be given an advantage over veterans.

“I know that it took veterans 1/2/3/4 years to accumulate the prerequisites for a certain level of reward, but I want that same level of reward immediately, without putting in the time and effort”

your acting like i think the system is “unfair” i never said it was unfair, its dissuasive to players the carrot is set too high, all im asking is that they lower it.

But it’s not dissuasive at all!

There a ton of other carrots to get along the way. It’s not like the first carrot starts at max rank.

Guess what? I’d bet it would take the average player greater than 1 year to get all of the current AP rewards. If you didn’t complain about that when the rewards first came out or when you first discovered it if you joined after it started (link those posts), then you’re really just complaining that you want the armor a lot quicker than you can currently are set to get it based on your rank and time spent playing WvW.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Seera.5916:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

somewhatobsessed.6309:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

im good at wvw, player skill is irrelevant to advancement only time spent increases advancement to rewards this type of mechanic is coded to only this game mode.

If you really believe all this, you don’t understand WvW very well. Bad players = loot bags. Loot bags don’t make much progress.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

rewards ins spvp take 3-6 months
rewards in pve take 3 months to 1 year
rewards in wvw take 5 months – 2 years

Irrelevant.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

wvw – requires no skill and an outrageous grind – having skill gives infinitesimal advantage in terms of advancement to rewards due to the severity of the grind.

Again, if you truly believe this, you don’t understand WvW. If you think it’s an outrageous and severe grind (I firmly disagree), you should find a more enjoyable way to spend your time.

The amount of wxp gain from getting bags is minimal. Real wxp is gained from karma trains with boosters. Yah im afraid I “get” wvw.

Yes anything over 1 year to obtain in an mmo in 2017 is severe, Needing to play wvw 30-40 hours per week to hit ticket cap is severe in 2017. Believe me I know, I used to play ffxi, I know what a real grind looks like.

Newflash: GW2 shipped with the mindset of doing things differently than other MMOs. So while most MMO’s may think in the time frame of 1 year max for their long term goals, GW2 does things differently.

It’s also not unhealthy for an MMO company to think in the greater than 1 year time frame for rewards. Because they want players playing for more than one year.

this game has been committed to low grind < 1 year for any rewards for its entire duration (even in gw1) of existence until the unveiling of this wvw reward system.

Please find me a quote from an ANet staff member where they said that all rewards were to be able to be completed by the average player in under 1 year.

Until then, you’ve pulled that time frame out of thin air and you can’t use it in an argument.

The only thing I recall them saying about grind was that there would be no forced grind. Please tell me how this grind is forced. Am I locked out of Eternal Battlegrounds until I have the armor?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

somewhatobsessed.6309:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

im good at wvw, player skill is irrelevant to advancement only time spent increases advancement to rewards this type of mechanic is coded to only this game mode.

If you really believe all this, you don’t understand WvW very well. Bad players = loot bags. Loot bags don’t make much progress.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

rewards ins spvp take 3-6 months
rewards in pve take 3 months to 1 year
rewards in wvw take 5 months – 2 years

Irrelevant.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

wvw – requires no skill and an outrageous grind – having skill gives infinitesimal advantage in terms of advancement to rewards due to the severity of the grind.

Again, if you truly believe this, you don’t understand WvW. If you think it’s an outrageous and severe grind (I firmly disagree), you should find a more enjoyable way to spend your time.

The amount of wxp gain from getting bags is minimal. Real wxp is gained from karma trains with boosters. Yah im afraid I “get” wvw.

Yes anything over 1 year to obtain in an mmo in 2017 is severe, Needing to play wvw 30-40 hours per week to hit ticket cap is severe in 2017. Believe me I know, I used to play ffxi, I know what a real grind looks like.

Newflash: GW2 shipped with the mindset of doing things differently than other MMOs. So while most MMO’s may think in the time frame of 1 year max for their long term goals, GW2 does things differently.

It’s also not unhealthy for an MMO company to think in the greater than 1 year time frame for rewards. Because they want players playing for more than one year.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Seera.5916:

There are these things called long term goals. Maybe ANet wanted some things to be long term goals in the game and not short term ones.

That they wanted something that WvW vets could show as an indicator that they have put forth the time and effort to get the item.

And maybe they wanted the weekly cap to be higher than what the average player would get so that most players would always have the motivation to play longer so that they could get more rewards rather than just enough to reach the cap.

Nothing ANet does will be liked by all of the player base. Just because you and others don’t like it, doesn’t mean it has to change.

nope certainly dosent have to change, but the path were headed down is that of a grindy korean mmo i guess if u like that sort of thing. Its also pretty lame that other game modes dont really track dedication (time spent) as much as wxp does for wvwers.

I don’t like forced grind. This game was advertised to not have any forced grind.

There’s not a single bit of forced grind in this game.

Koren MMO’s have a ton of forced grind and/or pay walls.

There are these things called long term goals. Maybe ANet wanted some things to be long term goals in the game and not short term ones.

That they wanted something that WvW vets could show as an indicator that they have put forth the time and effort to get the item.

And maybe they wanted the weekly cap to be higher than what the average player would get so that most players would always have the motivation to play longer so that they could get more rewards rather than just enough to reach the cap.

Nothing ANet does will be liked by all of the player base. Just because you and others don’t like it, doesn’t mean it has to change.

ANet can choose to reward players who have put in the TIME to reach a certain rank. Regardless of whether or not skill is required. It is not unfair to anyone for ANet to reward players who have spent TIME playing WvW to gain ranks.

It in no way dissuades people from playing WvW that were truly interested in playing WvW. Those it dissuades were likely people looking for an excuse to stop playing it or to not play it.

They said there would be no FORCED grind. You are not forced to get a specific amount of bonus PIPS in order to do anything in this game. You aren’t locked out of entering Eternal Battlegrounds or from making a legendary or anything.

So this change does not go against that.

You aren’t forced to grind for the bonus PIPS.

And yes, I can, because other posters have posted examples of that in other game modes. Other posters have already proven that statement fals.e

The problem with laptops and gaming is the lack of air space in them means that it takes a lot more work to keep them cool than it does for a desktop with a standard or larger sized case.

Just think about it:

Does a hot summer day with a decent breeze feel worse or better when you’re in the middle a large crowd of people that all give off their own body heat vs being in a wide open space?

It feels worse in the crowd because the cooling effects of the breeze don’t reach the middle of a large crowd of people as well as they do when you’re in a wide open space.

So the fans in your laptop have probably been working pretty hard while playing games. And it’s coincidence that their performance has gone down at the same time as a patch. So if your laptop is decently old, and it probably is given the OS, then it could just be wear and tear on the fans.

Also, how’s the temperature in your own house been lately? Warmer than usual?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

No u ignore all logic so it’s worse then trolling. Simple fact is I am correct In my argument. I don’t post arguments that can be invalidated. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make my argument any less valid. The arguments I assert in this thread are 100% true and doesn’t matter if u don’t agree with it it’s a fact.

There is nothing as egregious as the new wvw system and there is nothing in game that it’s comparable to in terms of sheer grind and time spent. My main objection is the direction of the development of the game as a whole. I prefer games that reward skill but apparently you all love low skill high grind games. If u guys want the game to become a mindless grindfest then your all doing a very good job of that. If your all pleased with the new system then so be it, but I can tell u that it dissuades all new players and a lot of veteran players. But if u don’t care about that then by all means.

Because you said so is not a reason our arguments aren’t valid. They are valid. Just because you don’t like them, doesn’t mean they are suddenly not valid. Because guess what: this game does not revolve around you.

And guess what, this system doesn’t dissuade me from playing WvW and for WvW purposes, I’m a new player. My 5 ranks come from doing map completion from back when that was required to get the Gift of Exploration. I’d kill sentries, get blood lust, and take camps that I ran into if possible. Because killing NPC’s is the same between PvE and WvW.

I realize that I chose to not play WvW and therefore am not given the bonus for being a veteran of WvW. And should I choose to one day play WvW, I will eventually get the ranks required to get more PIPS.

I don’t like competitive play is the reason I don’t play WvW. They could give out legendary weapons and 100 gold every time you captured SMC and I wouldn’t play WvW.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Your all total trolls if u can’t read plainly what I wrote in the op. There is nothing in this game except wvw reward system which locks rewards behind 2000 hours of game mode specific gameplay.

There is no mechanic in game which translates hours played into a massive reduction of weekly hours required to earn rewards. Everything I have been posting are analogies and examples of how this doesn’t exist in any other game mode.

They need to add these systems of game mode specific dedication to pve and spvp which translates into exclusive rewards or more profitable/efficient rewards for dedicated players in order to balance it out (which I hope they don’t because then the game will be a grind fest.) Or remove the grind and ridiculous requirements from wvw since this game was marketed as a no/low grind mmo.

We can and have read what you put in your posts. We happen to disagree with the conclusions you’ve gotten from the facts of how the system works. Since we don’t have the same conclusions, we obviously don’t agree on the solution.

We aren’t trolls just because we disagree with you and think you’re conclusions are wrong.

Maybe, just maybe, ANet designed PIPS to reward players for actually playing WvW. Those that actually play WvW rank up a lot faster than those who don’t.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Chaba.5410:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Everyone should get the same pips for playing in wvw.

….

I’m aware of the ticket cap, you didnt address any of my logic, and basically just said if I dont like it, don’t do it.

My point is that its discouraging and disadvantageous to newer players in terms of time, whereas other game mode specific content is not.

You didn’t have any logic because you didn’t ask why first place gets three pips but third place gets only one while proclaiming that everyone should get same pips. No one should take you seriously with such a disingenuous OP.

Im completely 100% fine w/ 1st place getting 3 pips, 2nd getting 2 and 3rd getting 1, im talking about pips awarded due to rank. and how there is no mechanic in game which gives bonuses for doing “nothing” due to having high play time, both concurrently or previously. (exept new wvw pip system/rewards)

happy?

It would be different if they said that only those who were at those higher ranks before they changed the system got the bonus PIPS.

But there’s nothing preventing players from getting to those higher ranks and getting more bonus PIPS.

And it works as a motivator: if I play longer and do things to increase my rank, I can get more PIPS. Which is what ANet wants to encourage: actually playing WvW and not sitting in spawn twiddling your fingers and taking up a spot that someone who wants to actually play WvW could be using.

Edit to add: Before you claim that I’m some high rank WvW just trying to protect my bonus PIPS: I’m Rank 5.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I find it amusing reading how defensive and entitled wvwers are. They say they “deserve” these awards. I’m sorry you don’t deserve anything over anyone else who bought this game. I also love how when people complain about the rewards they become exclusionary and say “this reward isn’t meant for you” and at the same time they say “I wish more people would play wvw.”

On one hand they say they play the game mode to enjoy it and that people who want rewards are “doing it wrong” then they immediately complain that they should be rewarded more. Isn’t the joy and privileged of playing wvw “reward” enough?

You cant argue both positions, being exclusionary to others and using rewards to justify others exclusion all while asking for more rewards, and then complain that you want to include others and that others should be content with just playing the game mode and receiving no rewards and that rewards aren’t the goal.

That’s not the point of this thread.

The point of this thread is the OP saying that because a reward system for an event that no longer takes place rewarded tickets, players who didn’t play in the tournaments have been treated unfairly.

Which isn’t true. They had a choice on playing WvW during the tournaments, buying GW2 in time for those tournaments, or not doing either of those things.

Kam.4092:

Nana.9512:

I actually still think ANet has pretty well calculated the amount of playtime it takes to hit the pip cap. Yes, it takes long and it suckes for all WvW Vets, who get finaly rewarded, but only slowly and with much investment.
But just imagine everybody could hit the cap easily in a relative short time. The WvW would be crowded with players just for the grind and probably with no love for the game mode at all. Getting to the cap has to be a bit ludicrous to discourage this kind of behavior or WvW would turn into an ascended gear farm.

Using the term “it sucks” shouldn’t be used when saying something about a game. We play for fun.

It discourages both sides.

Sometimes it’s the only thing you can say though.

If you have two people who want different things that are mutually exclusive, it’s going to suck for one of them.

Have a setting in options called Classic Night Mode. Classic Night Mode is what we have now for nights. When selected, nights show as they do now. When not selected, it’s however dark ANet makes them.

scorchbomb.3750:

Iris Ng.9845:

Have you tried speed-leveling with dungeons…

Good to know, I’ll try it.

Dawdler.8521:

Waaaaaaaaaaay to easy to exploit if this is open world…

Not quite sure how that would work. If you only did 20% damage and you only get 20% of the reward, other peoples presence makes virtually no difference. The most they could do is give buffs/debuffs to increase your contribution, but keep in mind you’re still going to have to do all that damage, so it wouldn’t be a huge amount.

Healix.5819:

The most they could do is give you more XP…

Good point, limiting it to exp makes sense. Tho up until this point gear has made little difference for me, I always found fighting things my level easy regardless of gear.
I’ll give condi a try but I heard that got patched and isn’t a viable way to solo higher level mobs anymore.

You don’t get partial rewards if multiple people tag something. You get full rewards regardless of if it’s just your or 10 people attacking it.

Otherwise you wouldn’t want other people to show up because just 1 person showing up would reduce your rewards in half and I can’t think of many people who would want that to happen consistently.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

For 3 days I’ve encountered 7 cmdrs booting ppl (not afk) in not-full squads for elitist reasons (no TS, not rt class, we don’t like u, etc.).

In 3 days, after waiting in hr ques, I was unable to join squads on various maps for more than 10 hrs . Either cmdrs r punitive cuz I’m vocal/dissenting, disturbing their “rt to command” or else (as I suspect) the practice is prevalent.

-Quote trimmed for space-

Just because you disagree with the benefits of keeping squads to those who fit the requirements doesn’t make them not valid or bad reasons.

It’s not horrible for commanders of squads to have requirements to be in their squad and to boot them when the requirements aren’t things that violate the TOS. And a requirement for TS is not a violation of the TOS.

Here are some suggestion:

1. Apologize for how you handled being kicked. Your disapproval with his decision did not warrant a rant in team chat, no matter how wrong or how right his decision actually was. That was something that should have been handled in a whisper or messages. Not in team chat where it disrupted everyone’s else ability to play. And mean it.

2. Acknowledge that you know why you were kicked. You don’t have to agree with his judgement call that the benefits of squad management prior to squad being full outweigh the cons, but that you realize that he does.

3. Talk with others who don’t tend to be in squads how they handle buffs and armor sets if the roam when they’re not able to find a commander willing to have them in their squad. Ask the commander if he has any suggestions or other players.

4. Learn how to roam or to scout or join/form a havoc squad to take the smaller sites that don’t require a zerg.

I wasn’t there so I don’t know if the commander handled your rant well or not or if he was able to do more than just read it given that he was commanding, but sometimes the bigger person is the one that steps up and admits that they were at least partially at fault for the situation.

Mal.1670:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Reverence.6915:

holodoc.5748:

Reverence.6915:

Well, to be honest, if you’re following the tag, the correct thing to do is to join their teamspeak server if they’re advertising one. Otherwise, get off that particular tag and follow someone else, or put up a tag yourself.

There is no “correct” thing to do. If you are following an open tag (usually blue) then you are not obliged to do anything. TS is a courtesy on both sides, the one providing it and the one choosing to use it or not. However it’s by no means a required tool to play WvW efficiently or successfully.

I don’t frequent these forms too often anymore, but here’s a late reply

Yes, that is the correct thing to do. That person is leading their squad. They set it up how they want. If they don’t want to have someone not in teamspeak in their squad, that’s their right. If they don’t want non-TS users on their tag, that’s their right as well, especially since ANet refuses hidden/guild commander tags. You can go follow another tag, put up your own tag, or roam if you’re not happy with their rules.

Some good points being raised in this thread though

1. Disabilities

Yes. This is a huge problem. Those with disabilities should never be forced into teamspeak. I know I had a couple of people with hearing disabilities explain that to me so I knew to keep them in squad and not force them to join teamspeak. They even joined along later in advertising teamspeak. Also had a person that required hearing aids to hear, but still enjoyed being in teamspeak. Each person is different. Find a commander that is still happy to have you along.

2. Elitists in TS

Yeah… This is an issue. It’s extremely irritating to listen to. Having commanders call out random kitten and blaming random people that aren’t in their guild just feels bad to listen to. I’d leave the channel if that were the case

3. Noisy chatter

Okay, so it’s not for everyone, but TS3, for a lot of people, is a place to socialise with other people on your server. These are the people you have to play with day in and day out (server transfers aside). You’ll find a lot of times, that it will be the same people following specific commanders with a specific group every time. People will find their niche in their server and just hang around them. Each server is a huge community after all.

If you still prefer your music though, what I tend to do is to mute everyone but the commander, and have my music playing through my speakers, while TS3 audio goes through my headphones. Works a treat

---

Honestly, it’s generally better, if you’re following the tag, to join their teamspeak. If you can’t or won’t, just don’t join that tag. Such a simple solution.

So, what tag do I follow, when they’re the only game in town, and I/ve been booted, w. purchased boosters popped and a 2 hr que? O, don’t suggest I reroll and rewait, burning up boosters/food, etc. Don’t suggest I go solo, I have a zerg build and will just get picked off, hurting the server goals. Don’t suggest I run alongside the zerg, as it exactly the same thing as running with the squad w/o TS, only I get no protections so I die more (and the zerg doesn’t get my heals) so the zerg fails more (or alienates me by not rezzing, not healing, etc) and the server goals fail more often (than if I were in squad). I’m confused. Such a simple suggestion that doesn’t help.

How does the zerg not get your heals? Not being in a squad in WvW does not prevent you from playing the game. While I think elitism in general is fricking terrible, if a commander was actually strict enough to boot players until all 50 were people in TS, hell that means your zerg is gonna be hella dedicated and stomp over pug zergs which is even better for capping and loot. You can always get better gear, it’s pointless to complain about dying in a zerg when there are always steps to take to perform better, squad or no. I don’t know what your problem is unless you’ve irritated commanders and get kicked for that reason? Lol

He got kicked a few days for not having TS and was not planning on getting on it before a squad was full when a commander switched from one who didn’t require TS to one who did. He’s got a logical reason for not having TS, he’s deaf.

However, instead of just accepting that life isn’t fair and the commander was just fine to kick for not meeting the requirements, he proceeded to rant and rave in team chat for 3 hours about it.

Therefore he’s probably got himself a pretty bad reputation tagging along that may be causing him issues. You don’t forget a 3 hour rant and rave in team chat when WvW is so busy there are queues in a few days.

SkyShroud.2865:

Seera.5916:

SkyShroud.2865:

fost.9167:

What harm am I doing if I am running down my participation in an outnumbered map? Not even botting or autocasting just moving every few minutes.

Maybe you should blame anet for such a clunky pip/participation/track.

Yep I’ve seen it in prime time and it sucks, ive also seen opposing faction spies drain keeps of siege before attack and pull levers.

The harm involve artificially boosting the server population status since population algorithm calculate by your WvW hours. Boosting the server population means increase the size which increase the transfer cost, then making it full and thus no people can transfer in or new players can join in. Finally, the WvWers will then get outman at all timezones.

Just because anet is responsible for this design, it doesn’t means the actions aren’t inconsiderate. Justifying inconsiderate behaviors is just another selfish act.

If the time it takes for the PIP count to go down on the PvE’ers testing to see if they like WvW with the current changes who didn’t play for long is enough for the WvW algorithm to kick in, then the algorithm needs adjusting.

The ones that spend the most time waiting for their PIP’s to go down or taking a break are the ones who just spent hours playing WvW and are the exact ones that the algorithm should be calculating.

It don’t matter. There are many ways to be afking somewhere and asking dev to create a advanced AI level kind of algorithm that you will only see in scientific industry to determine afker from non-afkers with the many ways of afking is unrealistic. People need to be considerate, endorsing these behaviors are silly.

But to convince people that they shouldn’t, you should use valid reasons.

If they’re just going to be like 10-15 minutes Max, then I’d be fine with asking at spawn. But given the queues, they can leave WvW and put themselves back into queue if they are going to be longer.

I never said I condoned long term afking to avoid having to queue up again for WvW.

SkyShroud.2865:

fost.9167:

What harm am I doing if I am running down my participation in an outnumbered map? Not even botting or autocasting just moving every few minutes.

Maybe you should blame anet for such a clunky pip/participation/track.

Yep I’ve seen it in prime time and it sucks, ive also seen opposing faction spies drain keeps of siege before attack and pull levers.

The harm involve artificially boosting the server population status since population algorithm calculate by your WvW hours. Boosting the server population means increase the size which increase the transfer cost, then making it full and thus no people can transfer in or new players can join in. Finally, the WvWers will then get outman at all timezones.

Just because anet is responsible for this design, it doesn’t means the actions aren’t inconsiderate. Justifying inconsiderate behaviors is just another selfish act.

If the time it takes for the PIP count to go down on the PvE’ers testing to see if they like WvW with the current changes who didn’t play for long is enough for the WvW algorithm to kick in, then the algorithm needs adjusting.

The ones that spend the most time waiting for their PIP’s to go down or taking a break are the ones who just spent hours playing WvW and are the exact ones that the algorithm should be calculating.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So, what? Deaf ppl cant run in squads for whom TS is “crucial?” Why? Will I never get to play the “crucial” battles. I react the same running alongside it solo, and its the same net effect to the squad. In squad w/o TS = out of squad w/o TS. Same effect, same play. Being in TS w/ HEARING is arguably better than being w/o TS (tho that point is certainly arguable) – but, sry I can’t accommodate that all important request.

Tell me what I’m missing here. The squad wasn’t full. The cmdr wasn’t prevented from adding anyone. He didn’t comment on my play. He wasn’t prevented from using TS and neither was anyone else who wanted to use. The cmdr has no idea who has TS muted, and often doesn’t care from what I’m reading. I didn’t ask for typemands. I didn’t ask for anything. I didn’t cause the zerg to lose. In fact, when I joined back in w/ a smaller squad after some ppl were nice to me, we did substantially BETTER and won much faster/more aggressively. So I just don’t get it. What is it exactly that has your back up so much? What did I do wrong? Will I ever be good enuf to play?

Because it’s the commander’s call at how strict he wants to be with his rules. If the commander wants to play by follow all the rules no matter how full the squad is, then that’s his right. He does not have to wait for the squad to be full to kick those who aren’t following the requirements for the squad. And it’s not discriminatory or unsportsmanlike or any other such negative word you wish to use to do so.

Because the commander has to manage all of the members of the squad and remembering who is and who is not on TS when the squad is full and things are heating up may not be something the commander wants to do. So when taking over the squad, he dealt with clearing out those who were not filling the requirements to be in his squad. And that’s his right to do so. Remember all of the things that the commander has to do that was posted earlier in this thread? Remember who is and who is not on TS and for what reasons on top of everything else is above and beyond the call of duty for any commander. And should not be expected.

And maybe why the smaller group was doing better with you in it because they weren’t being drowned out in chat by someone going off for hours on end on one small incident. But that’s just one possible reason. Could also just be coincidence.

O please. It is precisely unsportsmanlike and certainly not the “friendly community” I keep hearing about. It was a very exclusionary behavior, which the cmdr had every “right” to do, but which I am complaining about and will continue to complain about. It was the cmdr’s call – no one disputes that. And he did regrettably do it. And I am reacting to his decision, and will continue to do so. It was quite egregious and personal in my op.

There was nothing here for the cmdr to “remember.” He asked for TS. I immediately pmed him and explained I was deaf and that I would like to stay in squad, where I had been successfully playing all day. I pmed him many times after that, quite politely and reasonably, to the point I felt humiliated in the face of his responses (and the responses of his team support) and then I began to protest after that. There was nothing here for the cmdr to managed. It was a partially full squad. I contacted him politely and explained my circumstance. I’m not sure what else ppl expect I should have done at that pt? Just gone away in silence so u can all have fun while I shut off the game? Thx for that. So fun, so friendly, so non-elitist, so professional. A good experience was had by all!

And for what exactly? Pls tell me exactly what the cmdr gained in my instance by booting me, when playing beside the zerg is the exact same thing as playing in squad w/o TS. Where was the harm? Where was the gain?

It’s not unsportsmanlike to kick someone from a group that has reasonable rules, which his group had. Requiring TS is not unreasonable.

Oh, so he was supposed to ask you to get on TS everytime he noticed you weren’t on TS? Otherwise, yes remembering that you are deaf is something else that has to be remembered.

And how about taking a deep breath and and actually reading the replies from people who have explained the benefits of TS to you. You may be better trained at acting reflexively when something moves given that you’re deaf. Because you’ve had to train yourself that way since you don’t hear any visual tells. The majority don’t and react faster to auditory tells than visual tells.

And there are pros and cons to being strict vs relaxed and the points in between. For those that are strict, it means if the commander says something will happen, it will. Players don’t have to worry about the commander flip flopping. But players that aren’t meeting requirements don’t get the squad benefits. Nothing is all good or all bad and yes, it’s unfortunate that you fall under the bad side of strict commanders.

But as my mom says, your reaction made a mountain out of a mole hill. I used to do that, then I realized that it’s a waste of energy. And she also says to choose your battles. Your not going to make a strict commander make an exception.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

So, what? Deaf ppl cant run in squads for whom TS is “crucial?” Why? Will I never get to play the “crucial” battles. I react the same running alongside it solo, and its the same net effect to the squad. In squad w/o TS = out of squad w/o TS. Same effect, same play. Being in TS w/ HEARING is arguably better than being w/o TS (tho that point is certainly arguable) – but, sry I can’t accommodate that all important request.

Tell me what I’m missing here. The squad wasn’t full. The cmdr wasn’t prevented from adding anyone. He didn’t comment on my play. He wasn’t prevented from using TS and neither was anyone else who wanted to use. The cmdr has no idea who has TS muted, and often doesn’t care from what I’m reading. I didn’t ask for typemands. I didn’t ask for anything. I didn’t cause the zerg to lose. In fact, when I joined back in w/ a smaller squad after some ppl were nice to me, we did substantially BETTER and won much faster/more aggressively. So I just don’t get it. What is it exactly that has your back up so much? What did I do wrong? Will I ever be good enuf to play?

Because it’s the commander’s call at how strict he wants to be with his rules. If the commander wants to play by follow all the rules no matter how full the squad is, then that’s his right. He does not have to wait for the squad to be full to kick those who aren’t following the requirements for the squad. And it’s not discriminatory or unsportsmanlike or any other such negative word you wish to use to do so.

Because the commander has to manage all of the members of the squad and remembering who is and who is not on TS when the squad is full and things are heating up may not be something the commander wants to do. So when taking over the squad, he dealt with clearing out those who were not filling the requirements to be in his squad. And that’s his right to do so. Remember all of the things that the commander has to do that was posted earlier in this thread? Remember who is and who is not on TS and for what reasons on top of everything else is above and beyond the call of duty for any commander. And should not be expected.

And maybe why the smaller group was doing better with you in it because they weren’t being drowned out in chat by someone going off for hours on end on one small incident. But that’s just one possible reason. Could also just be coincidence.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

I wasn’t allowed access to a commander-led squad. I was specifically prohibited from accessing it. In fact, I had been in it all day, and the new cmdr booted me. I did not break any “rules.” I followed the squad all day. I followed commands all day. I thought the kick function was added to wvw squads because cmdrs complained about afkers. I wasn’t afk. I wasn’t breaking a single rule. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I was being singled out, humiliated, prejudiced against, and denied access to advertised content. The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.

Please show me where commander led squads were advertised. Post a direct link to a blog post or something else by ANet that advertises that.

You aren’t able to join a SUBSET of commander led squads. Not all. So even if you do find something, you’re still not being lied to. “Access to commander led squads” is not “Access to all commander led squads” no matter how much anyone wants it to be that way.

Commanders have the right to kick anyone they want for whatever reason they want. The smart ones will have logical reasons behind it. Requiring TS is a logical reason and whether or not a commander wants to add the responsibility of remembering who is and who is not deaf of the members in the squad that aren’t in TS on top of the other duties the commander has to deal with is up to the commander. Or how strict the commander wants to be on enforcing their rules.

The ones who are rude and discriminatory will soon find themselves without a following because people gossip and word gets around. Or at least they won’t have the good players following them.

So stop wasting your energy getting angry and upset and going off on anyone you think falls into that latter category. It’s not worth it. Report those that you feel break the game’s rules and let ANet decide. It’s just an online game; you aren’t going to change their opinion or their behavior. Or anyone else’s.

I don’t have to do your homework for you. You look it up.

Aren’t I glad that its just a SUBSET right now! Lied to? I don’t understand. I don’t agree with your assessment about commander led squads.

I’m getting tired of agreeing with posters that Cmdrs have the right to boot ppl. I am complaining that the choice in this case to do so was unfair, prejudicial, punitive and without good cause, as every single reason justifying mandatory TS requirements that I have seen posted does not make sense or is logically flawed/advantages not as depicted.

Please stop stamping your feet. IT doesn’t help. Blocking me from accessing a non-full squad for the reason that I cannot use TS is not a valid reason for a kick. Its not good sportsmanlike behavior. It needs to be pointed out, so others are not humiliated or discriminated against or disappointed or wasting gold/boosters bought on the trading post. This isn’t about having a logical reason. Its about having a reason that isn’t solely predicated upon being unsportstmanlike or exclusionary with no good cause or net improved effect (as so many erroneously keep claiming).

Then I won’t do your homework for you either. So don’t ask me to find where kicks are advertised content if you aren’t willing to find where ANet says that commander led squads are advertised content.

You said it was advertised that you’d have access to commander led squads and you claim that you aren’t. So doesn’t that mean ANet lied to you?

Not being allowed into a squad or being kicked at commander change due to lack of TS usage is not discriminatory or unsportsmanlike. People keep repeating it because you aren’t getting what we’re saying and are saying things that say that you feel like they aren’t allowed to.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Seera.5916:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

I wasn’t allowed access to a commander-led squad. I was specifically prohibited from accessing it. In fact, I had been in it all day, and the new cmdr booted me. I did not break any “rules.” I followed the squad all day. I followed commands all day. I thought the kick function was added to wvw squads because cmdrs complained about afkers. I wasn’t afk. I wasn’t breaking a single rule. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I was being singled out, humiliated, prejudiced against, and denied access to advertised content. The kick function btw is not advertised content. Show me where that feature is advertised when purchasing, because honestly, nearly every single complaint I’ve ever had about this game (which is hardly any) is because of the community abusing features, not using them as intended. Had I seen advertised that a commander is allowed to boot for capricious, abusive or prejudicial reasons, I would have given serious thought to not purchasing.

Please show me where commander led squads were advertised. Post a direct link to a blog post or something else by ANet that advertises that.

You aren’t able to join a SUBSET of commander led squads. Not all. So even if you do find something, you’re still not being lied to. “Access to commander led squads” is not “Access to all commander led squads” no matter how much anyone wants it to be that way.

Commanders have the right to kick anyone they want for whatever reason they want. The smart ones will have logical reasons behind it. Requiring TS is a logical reason and whether or not a commander wants to add the responsibility of remembering who is and who is not deaf of the members in the squad that aren’t in TS on top of the other duties the commander has to deal with is up to the commander. Or how strict the commander wants to be on enforcing their rules.

The ones who are rude and discriminatory will soon find themselves without a following because people gossip and word gets around. Or at least they won’t have the good players following them.

So stop wasting your energy getting angry and upset and going off on anyone you think falls into that latter category. It’s not worth it. Report those that you feel break the game’s rules and let ANet decide. It’s just an online game; you aren’t going to change their opinion or their behavior. Or anyone else’s.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Puck.9612:

kittening millennials……
@Eater of Peeps, buying the game gives you access to wvw, it doesn’t hire a group of people for you to play with.
You want a zerg that plays on your terms, buy a tag, start leading. No one is obligated to spend their play time, on a game they also payed for, doing kitten for you.

Cant afford a tag. Don’t want to lead. Purchase gives me access to advertised content, which includes commander led squads. No one said anyone is obligated to me. No one said ppl must do as I say when leading their squads. But I will call them out for their bad form, and I will do it as often as they do it. Maybe then, they’ll think about not being such a …… w.e.

No one should have to say that people should follow the demands of a COMMANDER in a squad or be kicked. It’s something that should be instinctive. You shouldn’t have to be kicked out of squads of commanders with rules you don’t like. You should leave on your own accord

You are allowed access to commander led squads. However commanders are allowed to choose the criteria for their squads and can’t kick and invite those who break or follow the rules accordingly. There’s a kick function for a reason. That’s advertised content. You can’t say that you shouldn’t be prevented from access to advertised content and then turn around and say commanders can’t use advertised content.

usnedward.9023:

Even if I were to to join TS it is pointless running background processes I am not using and either I am in the group or not. No point in whining about it and I get along just fine. They can’t stop you from running with them regardless they can only kick from squad. So no worries from me.

Just pointing out that it is an option for Eater of Peeps if he tends to play at times when commanders who require TS tend to play vs those who don’t. If his fun is tied to being in a squad.

It is acceptable for a commander to be able to determine the criteria for being in their squad.

What’s not acceptable to me is someone taking one incident of lost fun and ruining it for countless others for hours on end. Which is apparently what you did and as I’ve not heard you say otherwise, I’m inclined to believe is what you did.

Honestly, your reaction to what that commander did, is worse than what the commander did. His action only affected you in a negative way. Your action affected everyone on the map who needed the chat. You potentially ruined more peoples’ fun than the commander you’re complaining about. Not to mention, may have ruined your chances at fun in the future if you’re so stuck on needing to be in a squad to have fun in WvW. Considering your reaction, I wouldn’t want you in my squad. You make mountains out of mole hills.

Also, no where did I say you were playing the victim card. I said you lost any support because you ceased to be the victim. Other players on the server may have seen you as the victim of a too strict commander who should have let you remain in the squad until the squad filled up – there was no one who was willing to comply with the requirements waiting to get in. But when you went off the way you did for as long as you ceased to be a victim. There’s no call for being mean to someone back.

Wasn’t saying you should be a doormat either. But there’s a difference between being firm and polite and being firm and rude. And based on what I’ve read from you and others, you weren’t being firm and polite about your being kicked. You can stand up for yourself without knocking the other person down.

Now, if the commander kicked you because you’re deaf, then I’d be saying I hoped you reported him and he’ll get his karma from ANet. But he didn’t. He kicked from the squad because you were not complying with the requirements for the squad. He didn’t want to have to worry about remembering the one exception out of many on the squad.

You’re not being excluded because you’re deaf. You’re not excluded from zerg squads that don’t require TS – just the ones that require it. And it’s your choice to not install TS and just have it on and be accepted into squads that require TS. You could always install it and make your username/display name something that alludes to you being deaf. Like Eater of Peeps is DEAF. And then alerting the commander that you are indeed deaf and would like text commands when possible.

Black Frog.9274:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

If only 1 cmdr is on, and the squad’s not full, what’s the justification for this punitive action (cuz its only punitive). This is true also in those cases where cmdrs boot people for not having certain classes. Perhaps a little more credence if the zerg is full, but punitively obnoxious if its half empty.

This is kind of what it comes down to. If a commander takes the extra step of booting deaf people from a squad that’s not full, there’s no way to claim that it isn’t discrimination. Can someone please tell me what is lost if a member of a non-full squad doesn’t meet the requirements? If I lag behind or miss some maneuver, so what?

The largest, most successful group in Eve got to be that way by taking advantage of this exact disparity in view point. When they started, there were elitist groups and commanders who wanted “only the best.” So this group recruited heavily among noobs, unskilled, clueless, ragged, depraved, careless, and uncompetitive players and taught them how to win while having fun.

I’d like to take every commander in WvW and move them over to Eve Online. Commanding a fleet is orders of magnitude more complicated than running around in circles on a static map, hitting the same targets, with the same limited number of tactical options, and the same tidy little scoring system. If I can participate at full effectiveness in a fleet or, more accurately, several coordinated fleets, with nothing but chat and in game fleet tools, I’m absolutely certain you can do it in this pale imitation of group combat.

Only if he was booted for being deaf. He wasn’t. The commander decided that he wanted all members in his squad in TS. Eater of Peeps wasn’t in TS, nor willing to get on TS. His reason was logical, but it doesn’t change the fact that commanders can set the requirements for their squads and be as strict or as lenient as they choose. I’d lean towards strict myself, because then no one can claim the rules were bent for one person but another.