Guild Wars 2

Eater of Peeps, the commander has every right to choose the criteria for being in his/her own squad. Even if those criteria are senseless. He could demand that people dye their armor neon colors and he/she would be in the right to kick anyone who didn’t from his/her squad. Even if the squad isn’t full.

Yes, you were unhappy that he booted you and wasn’t willing to compromise due to the reasons you don’t have teamspeak. However, the moment you started the name calling (even if he started first, doesn’t matter), you lost any support you may have had. You ceased to be the victim as there was no need to stoop to name calling.

If you had been gracious and understanding in accepting that you weren’t fitting the criteria to fit into the squad, you may have been invited in later on if you had shown value to the group even if you weren’t on TS. Or a smaller squad going after the smaller targets may have invited you to their group since you don’t need TS for those.

And given your rant was in a chat that spanned multiple maps, you may have burnt bridges with more lenient commanders and players. Because you may be on their block list so that they could see the reports scouts were giving or their commander was giving.

Just my two cents as a PvE’er who wouldn’t get on TS with strangers due to introversion.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Silmar Alech.4305:

If it is so easy and clear as you write, well, why do threads like these constantly pop up since HoT release, where people write about their problems, which are all the same since release? For you it might all be easy and clear, but for (too) many people it seems not, and that fact is proved by the pure existence of these threads. A non-issue would generate none of these forum threads.
Don’t look at the design itself, look at the people how they deal with the design. They clearly have their problems with it.

you know HOT came out nearly 2 years ago right? People saying they are still struggling after nearly 2 years of gameplay are either being disingenuous or are going to struggle with every game known to man. People don’t post for non issues, that’s why the vast majority don’t complain about the difficulty of HOT, because actually its not really a difficult game. Dark Souls is a difficult game, or a tightly tuned raid is difficult, even some GW1 elite zones, but GW2 lol, no.

Or they could be new to the game and not a veteran who was around before HoT launched. Given the level 80 boost, a good portion may enter HoT areas within a short time frame of joining the game because they want the elite spec.

Najten.2418:

Foefaller.1082:

KStudios.2850:

It’s a lot easier to get now than it was before, actually. The way it is now, you can get your GoB in 1-week or so. Whereas in the old days, you needed 500 Badges of Honor. Which in my hayday were only offered through player kills and the Obsidian Sanctum jump puzzle daily chest. So you literally had to kill hundreds of players and do the puzzle to get the 500 badges required to buy your GoB. Which overall took months to do. Nowadays it’s easy to max out a reward track in 4-7 days casually. All you have to do is run with the zerg and repair things in WvW for a handful of hours a day.

You forget that achievement chests were giving out badges for almost two years before they made GoB a reward track. It was a golden age (for PvEers) where they could get their gift for their Legendary without ever stepping foot outside the safe zones on each map.

But I get your point.

Actually, you had to first unlock the vendor by reaching WvW Rank 50, then this was lowered to 14. So you did have to step out of the spawn, just not for too long.

There was a time that you didn’t need ranks at all. Back when you had to do WvW maps for map completion. I’ve only done WvW to get the map completion done on two characters and I did not do it it by playing the mode as intended for most of it. I’m rank 5. I’ve got the gift of battle.

If they put in a similar title for owning all Legendary weapons from the base and a similar title for owning all Legendary weapons from HoT, then I’d be fine with a own all legendary armor from HoT title being added.

But there’s nothing special about legendary armor that’s not special about legendary weapons so it wouldn’t be fair to reward getting all of the armor pieces but not getting all of the weapons.

McWolfy.5924:

Well. If you destroy the fun of 60 others… Its not just about you :P

But stressing so much over not dying that WvW ceases to be fun is the point that’s being made.

As long as efforts are being made to improve and reduce the number of times one dies, then a player shouldn’t stress over the fact that they are new and dying.

I’m sure even vets die occasionally due to mistakes they themselves make.

Server only matters for WvW, so if you’re not interested in doing that then there’s no real point in different servers chiming in on their experience.

And based on your thread title and first post, you’re wanting the PvE side, which is done by megaserver now. No more one map per server + overflows.

If you’re wanting to do world bosses and what not, best bet is to check the LFG right after reset. There’s typically one group doing the temples in Orr and I’d bet there is one for the world bosses as well. At least on NA. Don’t know about EU.

Khisanth.2948:

Seera.5916:

Khisanth.2948:

The collections for the precursors are often more costly than just straight up buying. Then on top of that you often have to do other stuff too like Dry Top for the geodes or various fractals or wait around for events.

What the collections offer is smoke and mirrors to hide the total cost.

As for grind … well that is all on you. If you want to rush it then yeah that is going to require some grind.

Short of the bugged event that I ran into, I’ve enjoyed the process to get Storm. I prefer long term goals that I can split into smaller chunks. Outright buying the precursor or gambling didn’t have any smaller chunks really.

I don’t care if it cost me more in time and/or gold to make it via the collections. I’ve enjoyed it a lot more than opening my wallet or spending ages grinding for gold or ages gambling.

See that is all fine up until someone is also complaining about grind. Grind grind grind and more grind but then extol the virtues of the method that requires more resources which logically speaking would require more time grinding to acquire.

Those types will complain about it as long as it’s not simply log in and get awarded the precursor/legendary. Because anything else to them is just grind because that’s not what they want to do.

And how other people view it doesn’t bother me at all. So it’s not all fine up until someone else complains about it. Because someone will complain about any method they put in for getting a legendary. Even if it’s handed out for free.

Ryou.2398:

Linken.6345:

Ryou.2398:

Vayne.8563:

The reason why SOME people are less “friendly” in HoT is because the content is harder and not everyone is good at typing and playing. It’s easy to type in core tyria, because you’re not as ;likely to die when you do. That has nothing to do with friendly. It has to do with the ability to communicate while in danger.

Plenty of friendly people in HOT who just don’t type well.

I did not say friendly I said toxic, perhaps you missed that part?

You often get treated as you teat others just saying mate.

Not sure how this applies to me, I am very aware of this and did not treat anyone toxic, you do not know me just saying.

Don’t know if anyone’s ever told you or not, but you come off as brash to those in here that are saying things you disagree with (be it for perceived misreading or whatever). Which can turn people off. Which could be leading to the responses that point to the maybe it’s you answer.

Now I’m not saying that you’re intentionally doing this.

Khisanth.2948:

The collections for the precursors are often more costly than just straight up buying. Then on top of that you often have to do other stuff too like Dry Top for the geodes or various fractals or wait around for events.

What the collections offer is smoke and mirrors to hide the total cost.

As for grind … well that is all on you. If you want to rush it then yeah that is going to require some grind.

Short of the bugged event that I ran into, I’ve enjoyed the process to get Storm. I prefer long term goals that I can split into smaller chunks. Outright buying the precursor or gambling didn’t have any smaller chunks really.

I don’t care if it cost me more in time and/or gold to make it via the collections. I’ve enjoyed it a lot more than opening my wallet or spending ages grinding for gold or ages gambling.

Vayne.8563:

Silmar Alech.4305:

If it is so easy and clear as you write, well, why do threads like these constantly pop up since HoT release, where people write about their problems, which are all the same since release? For you it might all be easy and clear, but for (too) many people it seems not, and that fact is proved by the pure existence of these threads. A non-issue would generate none of these forum threads.
Don’t look at the design itself, look at the people how they deal with the design. They clearly have their problems with it.

I never said easy or clear. I said that what you did worked out for what you needed for the story. Period. That’s a fact. If you did the low level stuff first, the easiest to get stuff, which is what a lot of people did, then you did what you needed to do to get through the story.

How would you know? Because when you try to get through the story it tells you what you need and you’d probably do that at that time.

There are not “so many” threads complaining about this. We know what complaints are like. We see them.

There were a TON of complaints that the hero points required for unlocking your elite spec was too high and Anet changed it because of that response. There was a response that was huge about having poison lore as necessary for the story and Anet removed it almost immediately.

I’ve seen a tiny handful of threads complaining about this. I’ve also seen threads complaining about not having mounts, in much larger quantity than this.

The fact is, a few people on the forums saying this doesn’t make this a tidal wave of complaints.

It’s no more or less confusing than the rest of the game. This game has always been terrible at messaging and teaching people how to play it from day one. It’s no easier to figure out how to trait for most new players. Combo fields and break bars are barely mentioned anywhere at all. Those are real problems.

I’m not sure why the messaging in general is so bad in this game, over all, but this particular complaint, because the required masteries are so low, is a non-issue. Even if you spent all your points leveling up gliding all the way, you’d only need like 3 more points do everything else you needed for the story.

And I don’t believe I’ve met anyone who leveled nuhoch all the way up before they leveled gliding.

Players who didn’t start the story first, but explored first would miss the hints the story gives as to the best order to unlock the masteries to traverse the HoT maps.

As for me, I’ve got the mastery points, I don’t have the experience. Because I’ve been focused on finishing up my precursor for Meteorlogicus which I’ve been doing via the collections and therefore spending most of my time in core Tyria which doesn’t progress the mastery experience bar for the HoT masteries. Luckily, I’ve got alts and story steps do give decent amount of experience and the mastery experience bars are account wide. So when I do feel like continuing the story on my main, I’ve got characters I can push through the story.

I don’t hate the system, but I do see the flaws in the system. It’s best suited to players who want to do the story first or explore as they do the story. It’s troublesome for players who prefer to do exploration first and then the story.

It would have been made a little easier if they allowed for the experience to be earned in any region but still kept the points to region specific.

So you’ve talked with all members of DB and find them toxic?

Chances are you found the small portion on that server who are. And guess what, your server likely has a small portion who are also toxic.

And no, I’m not on Dragonbrand.

Panda.1967:

Let’s be honest, there’s actually a lot more options to combat condition damage than people like to admit. The only “problem” is that most of them compete with those oh so important DPS traits… I’m sorry to break it to you, but it won’t kill your DPS to drop one or even two of those traits for a trait that helps counter conditions. Many of the ant-condition traits are quite strong too… and on a few classes they even add to DPS…

Or realize that you likely won’t die if you don’t remove the condition in most situations.

Donari.5237:

I think it does, on certain professions traited for it. I’m not 100% sure though.

I believe it’s one of the traits for the Elementalist. I know my Elementalist drops a condition when she dodges. Don’t remember name or trait line, though.

I’d be ok with it being something that could be earned in PvP as well as an alternative method.

So the current method for getting the Gift of Battle would remain and an additional method for PvP would be added.

Like you can get Dungeon Armor from both PvP and Dungeons.

Now that you can use legendary skins in PvP, it does mean that PvP methods for items used in the creation are reasonable.

Miku.6297:

1) What is it that you absolutely want to keep from your old character?
– For me it’s bag upgrade slots. To a lesser extent map completion/hero points

2) What of the above is not achieved by making a new character and keeping the old. Seeing as anything gained from birthday presents are account bound, and /age isn’t visible to others.
– Literally both things are not carried over to a new character.

To those strongly opposed to race changes. How does it negatively impact you if other players would like the ability to change their race? (in terms of playing the game, dev resources are obviously going to be taken, but that’s the case for any change or feature addition.)

I don’t think anyone’s opposed to them adding race change. Just saying that the chances of it are near 0 due to the problems the race change would bring and the cost associated with it vs the number of people who would use it.

And very few people who ask for the race change seem to do more than just magic wand the problems away. Very few seem willing to try to find a solution to the problems race change will bring.

voidvector.2780:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I’m not against the idea; I just can’t imagine how it would be a good business decision by ANet to make it happen.

They implemented in WoW, and charge $25 dollars. The same arguments were made about breaking quest log, breaking story content, vs re-roll, etc.

Considering how many people use the makeover kit, it is in the same realm of business decision.

Hardcore players are not going to care, and are going to tell people to re-roll. Even if hardcore players use it they are going to pay with in-game gold. Casual players (Fashion Wars 2 players) are the ones going to be the major revenue generators of this. Mid-core players like myself are somewhere in between.

Code is written differently in each game. While WoW may have been able to find the answers to the problems they ran into while implementing race change, we have concrete evidence that race change likely won’t be possible with GW2.

The personal story is the concrete evidence. Just rearranging the steps in the story causes problems. One of my characters which had finished the entire personal story before they changed things around got affected this last go around. I had to redo like 6 chapters including the long Victory or Death mission. And this last go around was to fix some of the problems caused by the shuffling of the personal story.

Fixing forum bug.

And I play mostly solo to answer the OP’s question.

SkyShroud.2865:

DeadTreeJig.6714:

SkyShroud.2865:

I don’t see how introvert you are when you are willing to start a thread about it.

Introverts can, and do, talk to people. Though I do spend a ridiculous amount of time composing my posts.

At it’s heart introversion is about where you gain and expend energy. Introverts (the minority) expend energy when engaged with other people (socializing) and recharge when alone. Extroverts (the majority) gain energy while engaged and expend when alone.

It’s not that introverts can’t be social, it’s just that we can’t do it for long before we are exhausted. We tend to be selective in how we socialize in order to conserve energy.

I know it sounds like a bunch of carebear talk, but there are actual chemical and neurological differences between introverts and extroverts.

Sorry for the lesson.

-DedTreeJig

_

I assume you meant that extrovert enjoy the feelings of certain things while the introvert may get annoyed and tired of the same things ?

I don’t really understand, base on multiple personality tests, I am ambivert, both introvert and extrovert, something like a middle ground? /shrugs

Pretty sure it has something to do with age and life experiences.

I’m an introvert and pretty strongly so. And I was that way when I was young and I don’t imagine it suddenly changing no matter how much I interact with others.

What changes is the introvert’s ability to mask our discomfort when we’ve exceeded our quota for socializing. And our ability to prepare for situations where we know we’ll be doing a lot of socializing – so that we take longer to hit our quota.

SirDrygan.1823:

Very easy, I stop joining anything, because it’s my computer fault, my network fault, my fault……….

never ANET’s fault…….

I run an i7 with 10GB of RAM, with a GTX 960 Graphics card, a high speed HDD, all programs in the background are paused or turned off during GW2 sessions. My internet is pinging quite well because it’s not major patch week. If there is a patch week, I would never join Fractals, because my ping is 1k plus.

Next thing you know, Seera, you are going to tell me I need to upgrade to a better Processor , better graphics card, more RAM, buy an SSD with 90k iops read and write minimum, buy a better monitor because my monitor is lagging, get better internet, go report to support…etc.

oh, maybe I should also buy a new keyboard, mouse, immigrate to a country where ANET server is locate and stay almost next to the datacenter.

I shouldn’t be giving disclaimer everytime when I can load into LA in seconds, load into other maps in second, then and on the same session, it suddenly slows down when loading into Fractals.
it’s RANDOM. And it doesn’t happen ALL THE time either. I can go for weeks without any loading times, then suddenly it loads in slow……..

Whatever, I guess I need to go buy a new processor and other stuff now, since it’s my fault…….it always is…….
just like major patch week or LW patch…………

None of us are saying that ANet’s in the clear with the issue. Just that given how long your load times are and how at least I haven’t, don’t get that, it can’t be 100% ANet. Because if it was, everyone would have the same issue. That’s how code works.

It could be that for whatever reason you’ve got some background process that kicks up at the wrong moment and causes the long load in time. And a background process due to optional, possibly third party, software – so not something everyone would have. And any program that’s not directly related to keeping Windows running is optional.

Like in Mass Effect 2, there were certain spots where if you hit it just right you would walk up on an item and not be able to get back down. One play through you hit the spot and the next you don’t – because you didn’t hit it just right.

Your computer with your hardware, your software, the path your internet takes to go back and forth to the ANet servers causes the random long loading screens. And yes, if you haven’t already reported the issue to ANet in a support ticket or a bug report you should. Because how can ANet find the cause on THEIR end if they don’t get data from players it does happen to? Or if they can’t find a cause, see if they can’t adjust the code so that it doesn’t conflict with a common thread between players who are affected.

For all they know, your “room mate” decided to download something really huge and caused internet lag on your end.

SirDrygan.1823:

Seera.5916:

SirDrygan.1823:

Let’s be clear, it’s NOT everytime the loading screen takes forever, it’s random. Sometimes, it takes like forever, sometimes it loads in fast. I have no idea when it will happen. But it does happen. And I have been in groups where other people are also in the instance but doesn’t move for quite a while. I also assume they are loading in. I usually suggested that to the group after they started getting impatient.

Yes, but at some point, the wait becomes too long and your party members are fine to kick. Especially if they have not been told that you are prone to random long loading screens that happen enough to warrant being worried being kicked due to them. At which point, unless the party member would be locked out of content, I would suggest we start the instance and the party member who loaded in long can catch up later. We can always hold while they catch up. And I would make sure the person who said they might load in long was aware that if it took more than a 2 minutes, that we would start without them.

So, you solution is to tell everyone that I have a problem and be sure to wait for me even if I load in 5 minutes later? Every time right? Because that is what we must do because you don’t the random loading screen problem and I do?

Is that how you push the fault on to me because ANET cannot make loading in faster? or something wrong happens during loading and it takes a while to load in.

Because ANET can do no wrong right?

I’ve never loaded into the map with that long of a wait time, so it’s obviously not 100% on ANet. Part of it is your computer or your internet connection.

And as such, you should warn the others you play with that you are prone to 5+ minute long loading times.

Just because some of the blame is on ANet doesn’t give you a free pass to not warn others. Even if it was 100% on ANet, it would still not give you the right to warn others.

SirDrygan.1823:

Let’s be clear, it’s NOT everytime the loading screen takes forever, it’s random. Sometimes, it takes like forever, sometimes it loads in fast. I have no idea when it will happen. But it does happen. And I have been in groups where other people are also in the instance but doesn’t move for quite a while. I also assume they are loading in. I usually suggested that to the group after they started getting impatient.

Yes, but at some point, the wait becomes too long and your party members are fine to kick. Especially if they have not been told that you are prone to random long loading screens that happen enough to warrant being worried being kicked due to them. At which point, unless the party member would be locked out of content, I would suggest we start the instance and the party member who loaded in long can catch up later. We can always hold while they catch up. And I would make sure the person who said they might load in long was aware that if it took more than a 2 minutes, that we would start without them.

Probably a little of both, depending on if long loading times are normal for you for at least 50% of the time.

If you know you tend to have a good chance at a long loading time, you should let your group know. Otherwise they may think you’ve DC’ed. And if they’re looking to speed run, that delay going to be a problem.

However, there’s a point at which it’s reasonable to kick because the chances are high that it’s most likely a DC. And at which time the group decided you’d probably DC’ed and kicked you. Which means it’s partly their fault no matter what the reason.

Without knowing how long it was between instance start and the kick, no one can say if the kickers were wrong or not.

Well, think of it this way:

If someone guessed your email correctly and were trying to get in, how easy do you want it to be for them get the password changed to something they know?

As for your situation, you’ll have to contact Support to do so. Hopefully you’ve still got something that you can use to show that you do own the game (like the credit card used to purchase the account).

Doam.8305:

LouWolfskin.3492:

I take the waypoints and other mechanics over having to wait 10 minutes for a gryphon to carry me over to another city just to explore an adjacent area any day.

Ah but that’s the best part of MMO you meet new and interesting people while doing events and in gameplay. However when you wp think of all the interesting people you miss by teleporting. Of all the movement types in this game I only really have an issue with waypoints they don’t fit into lore well and you miss that character interaction while traveling cause everyone will be traveling the roads as well. You see more people in the back allies of even HoT maps than you do in the open areas of core not because of population in the maps but because fewer waypoints mean you have to travel.

They fit into the lore very well. One of the LS2 missions ends up with results that show that they can adjust the waypoints to keep Mordremoth at bay. Because a few waypoints had been destroyed by the dragon due to the ley energy it uses.

And the benefits now are if a friend needs help, we don’t have to factor in travel time. We can just pop over and help. Someone in map chat says they need help with a boss on the other side of the map, I can be there in a minute instead of ten minutes.

zealex.9410:

I would rather see a ap milestone rewards overhaul first. 10K or so karma is a joke and wvw items which are useless to a huge partof the game and litterally cost close to nothing. But the weapons and armors are fine and i do thank them for that. I would tho up the gold you get for each big ap milestone )every 5 to 8k ap or so.

As for the bday gifts i would swap out some queen Jennah’s or w/e else you get in all your chars for each bday (maybe a mini or a bl skin ticket?) After you get your first qeen Jennah with your first char to reach his bday.

Or have someone who would exchange a Queen Jennah mini for one of those random mini eggs that you get from a BLTC. That way it keeps to the spirit of the reward (a mini), but gives something that players can turn excess Queen Jennah’s into.

vesica tempestas.1563:

it happened before ofc, However it will certainly happen more with meters for the wrong reasons, e.g drama, impatience, bullying, insecure or inexperienced leaders driving wrong behaviors. Then there is misinterpretation of the stats i.e someone has top dps, but actually causes massive disruption on the fight due to the pressure he puts on other players, or a kid with no experience who sees a number but fails to read the group dynamics. Still raiders are used to it, winning at meters is part of the psyche, so as long as it doesn’t bleed into other areas then i guess its a necessary evil.

Personally i think the root cause of this conflict is the evolution of group orientated dungeons that derived from rpg roots to the modern competitive dps race style of dungeon. The worry for me is that this will grow out of control and turn into a wow like selfish cesspit. Most play games to relax, not deal with this kind of drama.

People were already kicked for those reasons before DPS meters were released. It won’t happen anymore than before because of them. Because DPS meters don’t turn people into drama lovers, impatient people, bullies, insecure people, and doesn’t make a person inexperienced.

And the person putting pressure and disrupting the fight would have found someone else to blame for the failure of the mission than his disruptive nature and kicked someone for some arbitrary reason.

The kid with no experience without the DPS meter assume he’s doing great because he’s been in successful groups when he’s really just being carried and then finds it harsh in other groups and kicked because he’s not really as good as he thought. And then doesn’t know why. With a DPS meter he has at least one tool to help him figure out that maybe he’s not as good as he thinks he is.

So each of those bad situations you mention would still exist or have a potentially worse situation happen without it.

vesica tempestas.1563:

‘held accountable’ in a mmo game where the point is to enjoy content together, interesting viewpoint. So why isn’t dps meters needed in GW1, or 99% of GW2?

And sometimes there are people whose views differ so much that they would not enjoy doing something together because that something highlights their differences.

Some people find enjoyment in simply trying to complete difficult content. Being successful doesn’t hinder their enjoyment.

Some people find enjoyment in completing difficult content. Failing to complete the difficult content is not fun for them.

Then there are people who fall in the middle. They don’t mind failing sometimes, but too many times and the fun wears off of the content.

For the first group, DPS meters don’t matter. They don’t need to know the exact numbers they or their group are doing.

For the second group, DPS meters help them ensure that they fail as few times as possible. Either by helping them figure out what rotation gives the group the best DPS or routing out the player who just wants to be carried.

Most people fall into the third group, with the number of failures they’ll tolerate varying from person to person. And DPS meters can help the players who have a low threshold for failures they’ll accept before the content ceases to be fun avoid failing too many times.

Everyone needs to remember that different people find different things fun and that failure affects people differently.

And DPS meters aren’t needed in any content in GW2. They’re wanted because they are helpful tools for players to get better.

Unfortunately, like with any measure of skill or possible skill, some players will abuse the tool. Report those who break the rules of the game while doing so.

vesica tempestas.1563:

As you can probably guess, you are not the only player who has raided. i raided from pre wow through to start of cata, including casual through to hardcore competing directly with IS on silvermoon. level of player is irrelevant though.

As i said 10 years ago which was before tbc and yes during vanilla time when people did indeed do 40 man pug raids – recall, random pug to MC, the only concern was decursing correctly and wearing fire res gear, there was never any booting people because they didnt do x dps etc.

And yes from end of vanilla onward it started to change, that’s what i said. and the competitive nature did in fact evolve alongside meters- that’s no coincidence.

Ever wonder why there wasn’t the same level of anti social behavior in GW1 raids?

There was already competitive nature in the game before meters were allowed.

Speed run groups in dungeons trying to see if they can get the fastest times. These guys were usually in guilds and it was competitive to get into these guilds. You went through a trial period where you had to prove that you knew the dungeons and the meta to even be allowed into the guild.

PUG groups trying to do it as fast as PUG groups can go. The PUG groups had to rely on guesswork on who was the weakest link if there wasn’t a clear answer. And that usually relied on player bias as to what classes are the weakest link. Players used AP, gear, class, etc to gauge whether or not a player was worth having in their party. None of which actually gave any clue as to how good the player actually was in the dungeon.

Just reading the posts in this subforum that date from before HoT was released will show that this competitive nature that you said comes with meters was already present in the game.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Damage meter cons:

-It makes a % of the populace uncomfortable
-A % of the populace that would otherwise not criticize others feel empowered by statistics to criticize (or worse) other people.
-A % of people will kick others based on a statistic
-It is just not needed outside highly tuned raid fights.
-It encourages subjective tunnel vision
-It does not measure altruistic behavior and in fact discourages it.

positives

It is good for highly tuned raid fights
Some people like to use stats to improve
Some people enjoy winning at meters and see it as part of the meta game

pros do not outweigh the cons in a game like GW2 where there is a power ceiling imo.

1. Unless that % of players that are uncomfortable exceed a decent amount, then it’s not strong enough to use a reason to not have DPS meters. Because there’s a % of players that felt uncomfortable joining high end content due to not knowing if they were performing well enough to not be carried.

2. Very minor concern as the % of players here is likely small that would act in a negative way based on any judgements made. Kicking in and of itself is not negative, the how it’s done matters.

3. Those players will kick based on LI, AP, class, etc. It’s not a valid con as that % of players would kick based on other things. It’s actually lessens the problems of kicking based off of a single measurement. Because DPS is more of a indicator of skill at THAT specific boss, fight, etc than any of the other means players have used in the past to kick people based off of.

4. How is that a con? Just because it’s only wanted by those who do high end content doesn’t make it a con.

5. How is a specific number subjective? And if a group kicks based solely off of a number off of a DPS meter, then it’s their loss and not yours. You don’t want to play with them anyway.

6. How does a DPS meter discourage altruistic behavior? It only does if you’re playing with the group mentioned in #5 and you don’t want to play with those people anyway. Getting kicked by them isn’t a bad thing.

Yargesh.4965:

I not only thought the 2015 airplane event was funny, I also thought it was the most beautiful event I had ever seen during my online life.
2016 was quite shocking that they had listened to the mob and did basically nothing.

I liked last year’s April Fool’s day joke. Considering that April 1st fell on the standard patch day, I do not think that it was due to the reception of the 2015 joke that caused them to do the fake patch notes.

I don’t think that all April Fool’s jokes have to be in game things, personally.

There’s your answer. Each time you make a new ticket, they merge them on their end and move you to the end of the queue. Close down the duplicate tickets and wait patiently. If it’s been more than 3 days since the most recent, you can post your ticket number in the sticky thread in this forum.

But that’s not a reason to not allow DPS meters.

Until there’s evidence of widespread jerk behavior explicitly due to the DPS meter in this game, then I see no reason to ban them.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Seera.5916:

vesica tempestas.1563:

all you are talking about is dps dps dps, this is the problem with meters, tunnel vision that leads down a single strategic path.

When discussing the benefits of DPS meters, of course you’re not going to talk about things that are not related at all to DPS.

Any group that only uses the DPS meter to decide who stays and who goes and disregards other aspects relevant to whatever content the group is doing, is not a group worth being in anyway.

well that’s the reality of things, people do indeed focus on dps over everything else otherwise there wouldn’t be a problem.

And DPS meters didn’t suddenly make people focus solely on DPS. You can’t claim something that exists without DPS meters in the game as a con of DPS meters.

vesica tempestas.1563:

all you are talking about is dps dps dps, this is the problem with meters, tunnel vision that leads down a single strategic path.

When discussing the benefits of DPS meters, of course you’re not going to talk about things that are not related at all to DPS.

Any group that only uses the DPS meter to decide who stays and who goes and disregards other aspects relevant to whatever content the group is doing, is not a group worth being in anyway.

@BenjaminMS:

But we’ve had not one example of someone that be posted in this thread or any other DPS meter threads. Not one. Just “it may happen” or “it happens in other games with DPS meters”.

Is it wrong that ANet’s wanting to see if a majority of us players can be mature enough to not suddenly become toxic just because we can use a DPS meter, when there are more positives to DPS meters than negative ones?

And DPS is a better indicator of skill at a particular raid than any other objective thing in the game. You can’t fake it with chat codes. You can’t ping the set you keep in your bags as opposed to the ones you’re wearing.

And personally, I don’t know about you, but if someone kicked me solely because my DPS was lacking on a DPS meter without any type of trying to help me improve my DPS, I’d be glad. I don’t want to play with players like that. And I would leave any raid that permitted such behavior.

fixing forum bug

BenjaminMS.6710:

If someone wants a personal DPS meter for themselves to have a look at their own output. Go ahead.

But if it gets used to judge others? kitten. OFF. I’ve seen too much toxic & elitist behaviour in other MMOs (from Star Trek Online, to Rift, to Neverwinter) when combat meters on group level got introduced. Those who say a group-based DPS meter isn’t a bad idea in itself are intentionally ignorant. ANet should build an own DPS meter which can standard measure your own DPS and only if others allow their DPS to be measured, also track others, allow people to buy it in the cash shop to cover the development costs and forbid any of the others. DPS meters are often too toxic in general widespread usage for uncontrolled use.

DPS meters are not toxic. Players are toxic.

Toxic players will be toxic with or without DPS meters.

Without DPS meters people will use other things to exclude and kick people. Including things that have a lot less to do with a player’s skill in specific raids than their DPS. Like their AP or their LI (since LI can be earned in any raid, LI is not a good indicator at experience at a specific raid). Or worse: their bias towards a particular class – Johnny playing Toxic’s hated class would likely be kicked if there were any issues, even if Johnny wasn’t the one causing the problem.

Despond.2174:

Ah that would explain why some threads they got 2. So basically I am paying $25 for 4000 gems given if I was going to by the deluxe edition as a minimum. Food for thought I guess, I am definitely going to buy something, maybe the 4k gems isn’t 50% value since Ultimate won’t receive the 50% sale and the price difference will be $50 instead of $25. So you’re essentially paying $50 for 4K gems if you buy the Ultimate during the deluxe/standard sale, which then if I am wrong 4k/800×10 = $50 so you’re not saving anything unless you buy it during non-sale periods. Sorry if that sounds convoluted, because I am thinking of just buying the standard for $25 during the sale now given that logic and using in game gems/gold to just slowly build up my character slots, maybe buy 1600 gems.

Personally, I would only get Ultimate if you were going to get Deluxe anyway. Because unless the extras that the Deluxe version has have value for you, there’s no “savings” with the 4000 gems the Ultimate version gives. You’re paying the same amount for the same amount of gems whether you buy in game or via Ultimate. And if you buy in game, you’ll get them instantly. You only save the cost of the character slot since that appears to be the only item in Deluxe that actually matters for you.

The only difference between Deluxe and Ultimate is 4000 gems.

The conflicting information may be due to the fact that you’re reading threads/posts dated from before HoT’s launch. If you preordered HoT and owned GW2 you got a free character slot for being a veteran. That was a preorder bonus and therefore is not available anymore.

It should also be noted that they do take the 72 hours period to give the 4000 gems. You will not receive them automatically. So if you’re waiting for an item to go on sale before you buy Ultimate, beware that if it is a one day sale, you will miss the sale if you get Ultimate the day the item goes on sale.

And considering the gems are basically being sold at 50% off considering what price the put on the other items in the package, there is not a high chance of the Ultimate Edition going on sale.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Dawdler.8521:

Personally I will still maintain that there are “lucky” and “unlucky” accounts – we’ve even seen proof of odd account behaviour where they get nowhere near the event participation of other accounts, they couldnt even get gold by soloing events start to finish. But it’s been brushed under the carpet and Anet would of course never admit that little “bug” ever existed.

No, we haven’t seen “proof” of that. Luck doesn’t care if you got good drops after dinner last night; it doesn’t remember.

Everyone goes through streaks — we never, ever see exactly average for very long. It’s even rare that our bad streak will be immediately followed up by a matching good luck streak.

Humans are really good at seeing patterns — it’s an important survival trait. However, we’re also really good at imagining patterns, especially when it comes to luck, because we (as a group) have very little understanding of probability.

To add to the survival trait, we’re really good at remembering negative feedback. Like that berry made me not feel good, I shouldn’t eat it again. Or Bob died after eating that fish, I shouldn’t eat it.

So not only do we see patterns often, we remember the negative ones more often. And if you actually noted down your drops for a month or 100 drops if you don’t play that frequently to get enough drops in 1 month, you’d probably end up with more good drops than you would have remembered otherwise.

They do have the power to resolve issues, they also allow themselves 72 hours to respond to tickets. If you have been waiting for longer than 72 hours you can post your ticket # in the appropriate sticky.

Depending on the cause of the suspension, reversing it may not be as simple as checking/unchecking a box. Legal considerations do have to be taken into consideration.

I do however think it should warn players who are about to apply a key to a suspended account and ask if they want to proceed and what to do if they want to request the account be unsuspended.

Dawdler.8521:

Miku.6297:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Keep in mind that neither age of your account nor hours played have much to do with your odds of getting a precursor drop.

^^; While true, there is a correlation to time spent playing and precursor drop amount. At least meaningful playing… standing in LA or DR increase your hours but really wouldn’t help you find a pre. While spending time playing killing things looting does in theory give you more chances.

Well time give you more chances in practice lol.

Personally I will still maintain that there are “lucky” and “unlucky” accounts – we’ve even seen proof of odd account behaviour where they get nowhere near the event participation of other accounts, they couldnt even get gold by soloing events start to finish. But it’s been brushed under the carpet and Anet would of course never admit that little “bug” ever existed.

In true RNG situations there are people who fall on the extremes. Some accounts will just luck into having great drops and others will luck into having horrible drops. Has nothing to do with their account and tomorrow their luck could change. In either direction.

As for the event credit bug, they would need to submit a report to ANet when it happened for them to have any real chance of figuring out what causes it as it’s obviously not something that happens often – which means certain rare conditions have to be met. And those conditions can’t be uncovered if the players don’t report it.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Seera.5916:

Miku.6297:

Right, I’m 100% good with responding to what others are saying. However your response should take into consideration the rest of the conversation. When you quote a user, that usually implies you are responding to the quoted post.

I have not been saying anything about banning dps meters or people using them. I’m simply saying they can be used for good or bad depending on the user.

I’m pretty sure someone stated there are a few that do actually give your squad/groups DPS opt in or not, they aren’t 100% accurate and can be a poor reflection, but I’m sure they will get better over time.

^^; so minority is pretty much just your opinion based on what you see/have seen.

Any way, what is the best opt in DPS meter floating around?

And there have been people asking for DPS meters to be banned in this thread. I apologize if my comment made you think that I thought you were one of them.

You claimed that people being jerks was a negative of DPS meters. If they would be jerks even without the DPS meters, how is that a negative of the DPS meter?

People make estimates of other people’s DPS all the time. Just not in numerical numbers and not necessarily anywhere near accurate either. High, low, non-existent, etc. Someone who would be noticeably lower on a DPS meter is likely making noticeable errors and would likely be estimated at low DPS by someone not using a DPS meter of any kind.

The problem with dps meters is that it focuses on 1 thing – dps. they are not used to evaluate altruistic behavior and they are not used to take into account stats which re a significant part of GW2 game player – boons, auras, rezzing, standing on circles of doom etc etc. Dps meters tend to be written and used by players and devs who have learned behavior from trinity based games – and they are fed with god-awful dps race style encounters which encourage the worst styles of play. Take the race element out of an encounter but make it wipe able, that’s a positive style of raiding that does not need dps-kitten and may possible end up with meters that are used in a better way.

Like I said in a previous post: people who kick based on a DPS meter readout only are jerks.

People should look at why it’s low and if it’s not a logical reason (fight mechanics, party member’s role, etc), then a player should be asked and given at least a couple of chances to correct their mistakes before being kicked.

And people were already DPS focused even without DPS meters. Getting rid of DPS meters will not solve the problem. Raid mechanics would have to be changed in order to do that, and even then there will be groups that will still be DPS focused.

Miku.6297:

Right, I’m 100% good with responding to what others are saying. However your response should take into consideration the rest of the conversation. When you quote a user, that usually implies you are responding to the quoted post.

I have not been saying anything about banning dps meters or people using them. I’m simply saying they can be used for good or bad depending on the user.

I’m pretty sure someone stated there are a few that do actually give your squad/groups DPS opt in or not, they aren’t 100% accurate and can be a poor reflection, but I’m sure they will get better over time.

^^; so minority is pretty much just your opinion based on what you see/have seen.

Any way, what is the best opt in DPS meter floating around?

And there have been people asking for DPS meters to be banned in this thread. I apologize if my comment made you think that I thought you were one of them.

You claimed that people being jerks was a negative of DPS meters. If they would be jerks even without the DPS meters, how is that a negative of the DPS meter?

People make estimates of other people’s DPS all the time. Just not in numerical numbers and not necessarily anywhere near accurate either. High, low, non-existent, etc. Someone who would be noticeably lower on a DPS meter is likely making noticeable errors and would likely be estimated at low DPS by someone not using a DPS meter of any kind.

Miku.6297:

Ummm ok, I was simply answering what Zealex posted.

As far as the “minority” of players who would/do, do you have any hard factual numbers or just your opinion? As far as being kicked from a group or raid based on DPS, do you honestly believe no one has been kicked based on DPS?

This post isn’t about banning dps meters or people using them. It’s about giving people the option to opt into being displayed on them or not. A-net has given the green light on them so that ship has sailed, lets keep on topic

And none of the legal DPS meters will give people exact DPS unless you’re using the same DPS meter. So it’s already opt-in.

And just because it was a reply to what someone else said, doesn’t mean others can’t respond to it.

I believe that most people aren’t jerks, only a minority are. I don’t assume any community is different until proven otherwise. It hasn’t been proven otherwise for this community. So the jerks who would kick solely for a number on a DPS meter are a minority.

Not to mention the lack of anyone saying that it’s happened to them leads me to believe that it isn’t the majority. Someone would have kicked someone who would have come running to the forums to talk about it by now if it was anything but the minority.

Miku.6297:

zealex.9410:

whats the main negative to a dps meter?

Pretty much what’s been mentioned… The other potential issue DPS meters can cause (in terms of play style) is an extreme tunnel vision or focus on DPS and only DPS. There is more going on then just DPS.

example:Take time to heal someone, take time to do mechanics right, or just keep rolling up the DPS because I’m being monitored! Someone else can rev/heal and take care of that other stuff.

So they ban DPS meters. Players will still be excluded from groups. And without DPS meters they’ll use things that are even less relevant to skill than DPS is.

Players who would exclude someone solely for a number on a DPS meter are the type who would exclude players for any number of reasons. Removing DPS meters will not make them suddenly accept anyone into their groups.

Jerks will be jerks. Why should the people who would not and do not abuse DPS meters be punished for the minority of players who would/do? And only because it may happen and no one has come in here saying that it’s actually happened to them?

Genlog.4983:

i think its a bad thing for me adleast am full cleric build and my dps is low
so am sure no1 wants you duo the lack off dps i can do

my dps mostly comes from my pets ad least i can heal good and my pet can tank allot to
duo my beast master

but yea like most mmorpg partys only want upper dps to kill everything fast if not your out

its pretty sad how mmorpg turn out players don’t enjoy it anymore
its all about rush ad fast ad possible and that it

but if you have a good guild that don’t ask anything from you only if you come and enjoy it then your good

You do realize that for some people seeing how fast they can do it may be what’s fun about the content for them? This is harder to do in PUG’s but for static groups, this is what DPS meters allow them to do. Find out where their issue is so that they stand a chance of being able to correct it.

That some players may not have the 3 hours a non-meta group might take on a raid wing and they’d rather spend 30 minutes getting a good group to lower the risk of having a 3 hour run.

If DPS meters weren’t around the toxic players would just use something else to exclude other players. At least DPS is a lot better tool to determine a player’s ability to complete the raid wing. Unlike LI which could have been earned in a raid wing that’s not the one their in so it hides a players inexperience. Unlike Achievement Points which could have been earned by Dailies and PvP and WvW which are not raid content at all. Or by gear pings which can be easily faked and a gear alone does not mean a player is any good.

More benefit comes to the game from having the DPS meter than without.

Rednik.3809:

ButterPeanut.9746:

No…it means that the entire game of gw2 has made less revenue than it did previously.

There is absolutely no evidence that any one particular aspect of the game was directly related to this revenue loss. It is equally as likely (and could even be more?) that the revenue loss is from poor WvW support, HoT maps too hard at launch, 4 seasons of bad PvP structure, poor class balance at HoT launch, etc.

Only in the raiding subforum to people explicity blame raids for this…even though there is no evidence to support it.

Please stop with this. The game made less money. The…Entire…Game. Not one specific part of it.

The entire game without that specific part was making more money before. The entire game with with specific part being pushed as only valuable endgame (recent nerfs to fractal ascended drops says hello, lack of updates in comparison with raids says konichiwa) for a wast majority (because PvE players are wast majority) is making less money than previous game version during its worst days. So… something is clearly wrong, right?

Holidays came right after HoT launched so maybe the drop in sales is due to people having to repay debt due to Christmas purchases and not having as much as money to spend on entertainment.

Also, with medical insurance, high deductible plans are more common this year than last year. Maybe more people have a lower entertainment budget, because their medical bills are higher at the beginning of the year due to deductibles having been met.

The reason for the drop in sales may not be caused by the game primarily. Real life factors into this as well. It’s not like GW2 is food, shelter, or any other necessity for life.

None of us have any proof of causation. We just have enough for correlation.

Rednik.3809:

NikeEU.7690:

What you miss is that when someone on r/mmo asks “does guild wars 2 have a good end game” is the answer is “no, they don’t have raids and the dungeons haven’t been updated since launch” that murders sales.

GW2 had zero raids since launch, and despite that was very successful MMO. And no one ever asked dev team for raids, simply because everyone knows that raids = WoW. No game ever can compete with WoW raids. But they made raids and… revenue crushed trough floor. So much for “endgame desired by paying customers”, eh?
And even raids was made horribly, utilizing long-dead model from vanilla WoW. No successful MMO on market is using it anymore, but hey, Anet decided that they know better. Again. You know the results.

I recall posts on the forum requesting raids prior to HoT’s announcement.

And correlation doesn’t mean causation. Just because revenue is down post HoT lwunh, doesn’t mean it’s because HoT added raids.