Guild Wars 2

Firebird.8324:

Without minstrel amulet bunker guard cannot contend with the damage output on point, we need more vitality. I have been testing it, and it is absolutely worthless, rendering all guardians to running Dragon Hunter, which has also been nerfed considerably.

So, ArenaNet, since you’re in the mood to change and balance things, please add vitality to Guardian, maybe in the form of moving it to ranger health tier? Or, add 300 vitality as an addition to a minor trait in the honor line.

If everything stays as is the only viable guardian option is dragon hunter and we need more diversity.

Also, please respond if you’re a developer working on the issue, we would all appreciate it!

Yesterday I had the pleasure of going up against a full guardian premade team. That team proceeded to cover the bomb carriers in stronghold. Those bomb carriers were simply unkillable. Even with 4 glass players focusing fire using cleaving/aoe attacks and high burst single target attacks. I think I saw one drop to 60% before it was healed to full. We ultimately killed ourselves due to retaliation damage before anything went below 50% health simply because our personnel healing couldn’t keep up and they were on our inner gate so we couldnt stop dpsing or wed lose.

Bunker guardian is not dead. It just left conquest.

Probably because the original was a thread used as an attack against a specific team that devolved into a cesspool?

Just a guess.

Oh. So was one of the follow ups.

If you have the crippler on virtue proc it will work in tandem with the burn every third hit. I have used this on my dragonhunter during the beta weekend events.

It also works with permeating wrath for aoe cripple. Which is REALLY nice in preperation for a longbow 2.

Note this only works with the passive procs not the active.

Edit: I hope this addresses your question. Your phrasing made it difficult to understand and its 1:00 a.m. here atm so if I got the wrong impression I apolgize.

Thats a normal aspect of curving projectile skills. As a ranger main I can confirm this is normal and has existed for a rather long time. It’s part of what gave longbow rangers an advantage as an ambusher in WvW. Youl notice the range actually increases on that one skill if your above your target as well.

Using it wisely can give you a decent advantage against classes with teleports/shadowsteps that try to close the gap.

What if the greatsword had its executioner aspect reworked towards its auto attack. Say the auto gained more effectiveness towards under 50% health instead of grave digger.

Instead gravedigger loses the (no cooldown under 50%) and instead becomes the aoe skill of the weapon in truth. Gaining a wider range of effect or a double pulse type damage to make it less susceptible to blinds/aegis.

The idea would be so that the auto has a niche under 50% where as right now its just…gravedigger…gravedigger…gravedigger…gravedigger.

I don’t think crafting htem is supposed to be cheaper. Its supposed to be more reliable. Not every is good at storing large amounts of gold for long period of time. The collections are easier because they can do it bit by bit over time instead of dropping a bunch of gold at once.

I think its actually pretty normal for the ones that people are selling to be cheaper. And for people that have the gold for it thats okay. But for the ones that don’t have hundreds of gold laying around its easier to do the work themselves when they realise there near there next step or when they just want something to do for a couple minutes.

Thats my take on it anyway.

Firelysm.4967:

Hi Runeblade, i don’t want to say it but i’ll.

You are not experienced, that’s why you demand this changes to stay.
Please learn to use your pet. And you’ll see that even with F2 smoke field, you CAN use assault on demand.

HI Firelysm. Ive played ranger since the first day of the beta and I play the game daily. I dare you to say that im not experienced. I have also played shout ranger builds for that amount of time. I dare you to say that I don’t know how to use my pet.

The on demand might generation and the ability to preemptively buff your pet (sic em+heal as one then activate f2…or use the f2 to stack might and then heal as one to double it) is significantly more useful to me in PvP and WvW and most areas of PvE than the smokefield was. Not having a gimmicky stealth mechanic is something I can live with in return for reliable pet dps.

Edit: Not to mention that this is the ONLY PET IN THE ENTIRE GOD kitten GAME that can actually keep up with a target. Ill be kitten ed if I lose control of that functionality without a REALLY good reason.

Gratz on getting them haha. Im afraid that in the one map I managed to succeed the event on I wasn’t able to make it onto the electric wyvern platform. Kinda ruined the feeling of completing the event u.u.

Bit of imfo on the smokescale. The cloud itself does not pulse blind. Its projectile finishers that are causing the blind. Which means atleast in that case corrosive poison cloud should negate it.

ProtoMarcus.7649:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Going to be investigating this. It may require some change to Smoke Assault, since the active skills are intended to be a little stronger than the passive skills.

You can balance (nerf) Smoke Assault appropriately, the smoke field on demand is what we’re asking for.

Even a 30% damage reduction and removal of might on hit on smoke assault is fine by me. Although, I expect some additional on-use effect for the Smoke Cloud skill (maybe a 3s blind ON use ?)

Im sorry but no. Absolutely kittening not. I don’t even care if I get moderated. That is the stupidest thing ive read.

ATM smokescale is the ONLY melee pet that can reliably keep up with and pressure targets. And for various reasons I don’t expect melee pets to get a rework any time this decade. Taking away the dmg and might on smoke assault turns this form a decent chaser pet into a BAD chaser pet. Seeing as chasing is what it seems to be designed around it thus becomes a bad pet. I DON’T want that to happen to smokescale. Especially sense the wyverns are currently so kitten SLOW.

Wuselknusel.4082:

So a map-wide event with multiple layers, multiple bosses and multiple stages with a complexity never seen before in this game, littered with deadly enemies is no indicator that the new maps are meant to be slightly harder?

I guess it’s just pointless to argue with you, if you’re not even able to see the obvious. And the pets are where they belong: gated behind challenging content as the reward at the end.

Again, if you don’t like it, suck it up or leave.

AGAIN. What is the issue isn’t the fact that its gated behind difficult content. What the issue is its gated behind content that the ranger himself has minimal control over.

A ranger can play perfectly for the entire two hours and still not get his goal because of 100 other people who spent those two hours trash talking eachother instead of working together.

If it was locked behind a champion wyvern that I had to solo. I would ram my face into it and die over and over again until I got it and probably enjoy the experience.

What I and many others hate is joining a map or even ORGANIZING a map spending two hours on this event multiple times a day and even then probably not getting it becuase green preserver group decided to dissapear and no one on the map is listening as the leaders try to get a new group in place.

Make it as challenging as you want. Just don’t force people to rely on the absolutely abysmal RNG that is the playerbase.

Edit: To put it simply. I have given up on getting this pet not because of the difficulty of the encounter. But of the fact that in the end its mostly RNG whether or not im LUCKY enough to get a group that can do more than scream at eachother.

This makes me incredibly sad. Because using both wyverns was my original goal for the expac ever since I saw them during the druid reveal.

Gah im not sure I want them swapped back anymore. As a shout ranger having the burst skill as something I can control as a massive part of my dmg. Before I agreed that they needed to be swapped back. But after playing with it. I find I like it as it is far more.

Druid is pretty succeptable to burst. There primary mitigation comes from control. Meaning that “safe” burst skills are very effective. In example a longbow rangers rapid fire combined with the a buffed smokescales f2 WILL out dmg his healing potential. Combine that with someone else hitting him with a CC or a debuff like chill (chill kittenS druids) and youl find there manageable.

Are they strong? Yes. But in this game healers HAVE to be strong. If they can’t outheal atleast one persons maybe twos damage in there burst healing phase. There simply wouldn’t be any reason to go healing. As anyone could simply burst through your healing and kill you or the person your trying to support anyway. (Im talking in things like immob lock scenarios. Where your healing is the only thing keeping a person alive. Also where a healer is most needed)

If the game was slower paced “recovery” style healers (which has more counterplay) might be more useful in PvP. But as it is recovery style healing will probably only be effective in raids. Where you’r in it for the long haul and fights last more than 30 seconds.

Azukas.1426:

Have started to make me dread conquest.

I’m waiting to see how the meta pans out, but it’s not looking good at all.

Ironically for me I found that my old build has a better chance against some of these builds out there than the new ones I made to fight the old meta.

Some of the builds are insane yeah. But I found relying on old tricks used new ways.

For my case I decided druid wasn’t really my thing and went back to my beast mastery focused shout ranger and just swapped to the new pets (Smokescale and bristleback). Im actually having alot more success against the builds that wrecked me just using the build im familiar with. Maybe the same concept will help you.

Hey ANET. Let me start this off on a high not. This event was one of the most epic multi hour long things I have ever done in a video game. It left me feeling giddy and exhausted after the rather incredible final fight.

Thank You for that.

The following 15 minutes though managed to take (most of) that away. I spent the last 15 minutes I had in that map attempting to glide to get the juvenile electric wyvern. I flew and failed over. And over. And over agian attempting to find the right spot to land on. I didn’t.

My main motivation for doing that event wasn’t the fight (even though that would have totally been worth it). It was to get my second wyvern pet which I had set out to do the second I realized they were to be put into the game.

In the end all I could do was watch the timer tick down for 15 minutes as I tried and failed again and again to land on the right spot without knowing where that spot is.

It left me feeling no longer overjoyed but simply exhausted. As I knew that to attempt again. I would have to do ANOTHER 3 hour long event. Ending in a climactic battle that I might not even succeed in. In the hopes of getting another chance at this.

I have sense looked around and learned where the right spot is. But at this time I simply can’t muster the energy to attempt that fight again. Ill probably try again tomorrow.

I won’t say anything like “I DESERVED THAT WYVERN” though a pathetic voice in the back of my head is saying that. Mostly what I feel at this time though is dissapointed. Dissapointed that I could succeed in everything up to that point. But ultimately fail not because of any lack of willpower or skill. But simply because I couldn’t see the path to my goal. It sucked the enjoyment of that epic kill out of me.

I ask that. In the future atleast. Some serious thought be put into whether or not you NEED to put an additional wall after an already draining one. That’s all.

Thank you very much for the expansion.

Hahaha what if that became the new functionality of Guard. You summon three pocket raptors to attack anyone in an area.

I noticed the trend is tending to be an attempt to shift the blame away from the people that make the and on to those that trusted it at face value.

Id just like to throw my two cents in.

First: Its the build promoters fault for not being EXTREMELY clear. And also (as evidence has shown) massively exaggerating there likely performance with said build. They should have taken steps to promote what the practical reality of there build is as well as the theoretical value. Ultimately the practical value is more important.

Second: its the fault of the players for trusting people on the internet. For assuming what there being told is 100% true and 100% accurate. And for not double checking what there told. Or even using common sense. It shouldn’t be hard to look at there numbers in game and do a bit of quick math on the spot. Its simple addition and division. And you can even round numbers to the nearest thousand and still get a ballpark estimate.

Honestly. I put more blame on the build promoters. They were the ones that truly benefited from any confusion. And they earned there fame based on that confusion.

At the same time though the ones that accepted those builds aren’t entirely blameless. Ignorance is bliss until you realize you’ve been mislead.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I use guard all the time in WvW for the low cooldown condi cleanse/perma swiftness. I only swap it out if I run across a mesmer or a condi thief. It’s also a fantastic skill for solo flipping objectives since it provides your pets with protection/regen and if they are really in danger you can just stealth them until your pet swap or heal is ready.

I think if they would extend the other boon copies you get from WHaO to 5 seconds “Guard” would become a strong skill in all game modes.

Search and rescue needs it’s cooldown drastically reduced and it should have a secondary “Search and Destroy” function for sending your pet to finish downed players.

Protect me needs a complete change in my opinion. I would love something like “Protect Us” that grants 5 stacks of stability and resistance for 5 seconds to up to 5 people. Keep the stun break and lower the cooldown to 40 seconds.

Instant stab and more party support is something rangers can use in all game modes.

Last but not least they need to fix rangers shouts so they clear condi’s off your allies when using trooper runes. The fact that they can insta nerf things right and left but they still haven’t bothered to fix something as simple as this is just pathetic.

Hey Jim thanks for responding. On Guard my primary issue with it isn’t the secondary effects it has. But the fact that its core functionality (the idea of making your pet tankier so it can stay in a specific area to fight more effectively) is either unnecessary (in PvE) or not enough (PvP and WvW) yes the swiftness/regen/1 condi cleanse every 10 seconds is nice. But I would prefer that this skill be worth taking on its own rights. Not just because of how much you can smash into its low cooldown.

I agree with the trooper rune setup. However I believe that will lead to guard having a longer cooldown as well has having another issue you might not have thought of.

Atm it removes a condition from both the player and the pet. However if it affects other players then it will have a cap of 5 people. That means it will automatically prioritize the the other players for its affect instead of the pet due to how boon/cleanse priority works in this game. That means that the pet itself will lose its cleanse in any location where 5 players are present.

That would lose the only controllable method we have of cleansing anything from our pet. Every other method is outside of our control. For Beast Masters atleast. that is an undesirable outcome.

One thing I would like to add. This utility line has no methods of dealing with condition over load. Even with trooper runes your condition cleanses are spaced out and predictable. Meaning a condi load will signal death. I ask that if a rework for search and rescue is considered that the possibility of it becoming an anti condition skill be put forth. In that case it would justify its long cooldown.

Hey all. This is an update based originally on my previous shout utility thread. For those of you that don’t know me. Im a long term ranger that has run shout utilities pretty much since the beginning of the game. I believe I have above average (not im far from perfect) competency with the class. And I have moderate to high levels of success in all game modes with my builds.

What follows are my opinions based on my experience. And do not reflect the opinions of the rest of the ranger community nor can I claim to do so myself.

I made this to comment on the usefulness of ranger shout skills in the HoT content and what ive found so far in the evolving PvP scene. Of course said content has only recently released. However I feel that I have a decent grasp on where atleast these skills stand.

Note that all the following takes the use of trooper runes to be assumed.

1- Heal as One: This quite frankly is a decent heal skill. And in its current form a significant boon(pardon the pun) to the Beast Master playstyle I enjoy. As a skill it can be useful in both offensive and defensive situations. And excels at setting up pet bursts when combined with the Zephyr’s Speed grandmaster trait.

2 – Guard: This skill is in an awkward position. It has its niche uses in PvP. However in PvE and WvW it is heavily lacking in purpose. In PvE it is largely unnecessary due to the change in how pets recieve damage added recently. Simply put. You should never EVER need this skill to keep your pet alive. And using it just for the condi cleanse from the runes is kind of…lame.

In WvW this skill simply doesn’t do ENOUGH to warrant bringing it. Your pet will NEVER be able to effectively survive in close quarters combat with a significant number of players. And in a roaming environment the terrain is a bigger hindrance than the enemy is to your pets effectiveness.

3- Search and Rescue: This skill as I mentioned before has a fatal flaw. It does not do enough vs its cooldown to justify its use. I stand by what was discussed in my previous thread that this skill needs either an additional support capacity outside of simple rezzing or a lower cooldown.

4- Protect Me: Ironically this skill seems to be more effective in the HoT combat areas than it did in the previous areas. Where enemy bursts are often combined with enemy CCs. Most of the new pets have decent health pools. Meaning your less likely to suicide them the second you hit the button

In PvP and WvW this skill is still unreliable compared to its competition.

5-Sic Em: This skill is good for beast mastery play styles now that the effect can no longer be canceled by giving an additional order meaning it can now be used in combination with pet f2s. This is a VERY good change. I am satisfied with its current working.

6- Strength of the Pack: This elite skill is also significantly better in newer content than it was in previous content. The new pets work very well with this skill. Either having multi hit attacks or attacks that directly improve its functionality in some way. Stability is also much more useful to have on the pet now that mobs have as many CC’s as they do. Using this skill at the right time can guarantee you dps uptime when your pet should have been stunlocked. And pets like the smoke scale, Bristleback, and the fire wyvern with there multi hit/aoe f2’s do a good job ramping up might with this skill.

TLDR

All in all. Heal as One, Sic Em, and Strength of the pack are (relatively) in significantly better places with HoT in my experience.

Protect Me is in a slightly better place as far as PvE is concerned. But is still heavily outclassed in other game modes.

Search and Rescue: This skill still requires rework in my opinion. It simply isn’t what the shout playstyle needs.

Guard: This skill while still having niche uses, actually has LESS of a place since the release of HoT and there new methods of dealing damage to pets than it did before. In the other game modes, it is either a gimmick skill or it simply does not do enough to warrant slotting.

Please leave any opinions you have below. If you disagree with me on a point please feel free to say so. If you have an idea on how to rework the skills you feel need rework that would be Relevant To The Current State Of The Game please post below.

Mikkel.8427:

nearlight.3064:

Josh Davis.6015:

Passed this along to the team.

Also the wanderers stats in pvp are different from the ones in PvE.

What are they in PvE?

Edit: Power Vit focused with added toughness and boon duration.

Nemesis.8593:

Molch.2078:

AngryBear.8741:

That is why I said don’t theorize, show it, prove your claim in a simple and objective manner so that everyone understands. I don’t understand why you are against it. If you are right, such test will just confirm it and that would be it.

DnT and Co. provided video after video of record runs over the last years. So “their” side of the argument has their “proof”. Not their fault that no one competed with a necro-and-ranger only team.

And for now, well, the game got a huge update with new instabilitys, elite specs and so on. The meta needs some time to figure itself out, people can only make some educated guesses about whats to come. I doubt that much will change from the current state of the game, but your contest at this time would had no meaning.

Video after video with proof, you straight up lie without the slightest hesitation.

Link me a video in which Bloomhunger died in 20 seconds without timewarp and icebow… a single one. Otherwise all the “advertised DPS” is a lie. Absolutely all of it.

I’ll wait right here.

I don’t think you even understand what just happened, yet you come here and argue with me.

Nemesis they can’t understand. You see the same behavior when ANYONE with long held beliefs starts to be argued against and the arguments make sense. They shut down. They refuse to acknowledge any evidence against there claims as “real” then they push at anything they can making false comparisons to try to trip up there opponent without getting baited into an actual honest debate. I have seen the behavior before. Hell I grew up in a situation where every adult I talked to behaved exactly the same way when I asked questions they didn’t want to hear.

The most sure way to win against this kind of behavior. Is to educate the people around them (as you have been doing) and slowly erode there fanbase. The people themselves will never acknowledge they were wrong except on the most minor of points. But you can convince the people they attempt to train into believing them rendering them without anywhere to reach for. Thus isolating there influence.

EDIT : THIS IS NOT IN REFERENCE TO MOLCH I just suck at the reply feature and never bothered to learn how much of the first post to cut out in order to make it not look like kitten .

Yes. Revenants like to justify it by saying there not a pet however. Pretty much the only defense against it is to zerg. that way the damage gets split between 5 targets. Ironically MM necros have the best chance against them haha. Except hte cleave on hammer shafts minions.

Hey all. Most of you probably don’t know me. I made a shout utility thread recently but that really isn’t important. This is mostly my thoughts and opinions on the new pets. What I feel there good at. What I feel they have issues with. I have spent all of my game time since release using the new pets and testing out there capabilities in different game modes. And ive played pet classes for most of my gaming life (since EQ1) so thats where my opinions stem from.

First up are pets ive tried in both PvP and PvE.

Fire Wyvern: This pet (and its sparky counterpart) has some great potential. But also some massive issues preventing it from reaching that potential. Namely Its attacks all do great things. It’s F2 is a fire field. Its auto attack cleaves. Its special attacks do a cleaving cripple and knock back respectively. And they deal decent damage for its sustainability.

However. This pet and the electric wyvern suffer from one critical failure that will quickly see it dropped. It’s slow. It’s Attack speed is incredibly slow on nearly ALL of its skills. Its f2 was improved to finish faster. Though its radius and spread rate are too low I would say. But its physical attacks did not receive the same treatment. Which is a massive concern for me. You can actually WALK out of the range of those attacks before they have there full effect on you. And there aftercasts are massive as well. Meaning they have an even harder time keeping up with targets than other pets. Which was already a big issue in combat.

I wan’t to be able to use wyvern’s. I love dragons and anything closely resembling dragons. If I could run an electric and fire wyvern for all content I would. But at this point there actual ability to connect attacks is so low outside of there f2s that I simply can’t risk it. No matter how high the potential payoff.

I ask that you increase there attack speeds. Adjust there damage if need be. But a pet that doesn’t hit is simply baggage.

Bristleback: This is a good ranged pet. It hits regularly with its auto and special attacks. Its f2 is the case where this pet has the issue. Namely the f2 cannot adjust for differences in elevation. If its on a different elevation it will cause it to shoot massively over the targets head into the ground below it. It needs to be able to aim its spines. This is massively important for pve AND pvp. ALOT of HoT combat areas are on sloped areas. And many locations in PvP cause you to fight on differing elevations. If the f2 cant react there. Then its primary method of burst is unreliable. And its a risk to bring instead of an asset.

Smokescale. Swap the f2 back and this will be a good overall choice -.-….seriously… This was the closest you had to a good general pet even WITH the damage nerf until you decided to swap the f2s.

Edit: if you feel that hte smoke scale needs the cooldown reduction on smoke assault in order to make up for its now reduced damage. Reduce its base cooldown. Swapping it to the f2 helps with that. But losing the smoke field hurts the group support capabilities of this pet.

I have only tested this pet solely in PvP

Tiger: Not much to say here honestly. Its of the feline family (which is good) has feline stats (which are good) and greats fury (thats also good). Id say its the most…plain of the new pets. But from a combat perspective. I can’t find anything truly wrong with it.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Jim Hunter.6821:

incoming nerf in 3… 2….

Hah! Sad, but pretty accurate apparently.

vespers.1759:

So good it already has its own hate thread.

The second I saw that pet on the reveal I knew it was going to be whined about. Now it’s only a matter of time to se how long it takes to be nerfed.

Seriously? A pet hate thread? Where is it?

PvP forums…where all ranger nerfs come from.

I agree that this should have been released at a seperate time than the expansion. Like said above a month before or after. As it is people are farming masteries. Not WvWlding. People are trying to get to the end of the story. Not play competitively.

On that note. I love the mechanics of the new fight. Its fun to fight in. Its gorgeous. I could hang it on my wall and not feel awkward about it. But I feel the player cap needs to go up a little bit as soon as the servers are in a state to be able to handle it.

At the moment in PvP and PvE the amulet/gear of this stat name seems to be drastically different. One being condition focused and the other being power&boon focused.

Is there a mix up in this amulets stats or is this intended? As it is the PvE version is something id very much like to try. However nothing like it was added to the PvP section while the current PvP Wanderer’s amulet has other amulets with very similar setups which leads me to believe that somehow this stat set got confused with another.

For now atleast. It doesn’t seem to make sense to have two sets with the same name be completely opposite eachother. For one thing its a bit dissapointing for those of us excited to see the amulet only to realize its nothing like what we thought it would be haha.

As soon as revenants lose the ability to do the exact same thing then sure. The smokescale can go.

Oh. And also the second the wyvern attack speeds get buffed…Because they hardly hit anything in PvE much less PvP. There bad even for downcleave because of the sheer amount of time ANY of there attacks take to land.

It doesn’t matter if it hits like at ruck if it never hits.

Atm there are some insane builds running around that we actually NEED the smokescale in order to actually kill. With any other pet it either takes over a minute or it simply doesn’t happen. That is NOT a good sign for overall balance.

So yeah. This can get nerfed when all the other kitten out there can get nerfed.

Note this is purely a guess. but I believe they are either fruther into the jungle. Or in places masteries are required to reach. I have scanned almost all of the base terrain and havn’t found any of them yet. So I have to guess there either deeper in or hidden.

One down my friend. One down

Justine.6351:

Someone rubbed me wrong the other day so I followed them and used pbs anytime it was off cd. I was tempted to put on the bear but decided wolf fearing and devourer kb would be more hilarious.

Next project, making a true kb master. Mesmer illusionary wave/temporal curtain? Warrior hammer? Guardian shield? Revenant displaced field? The unlimited options!

Go the mesmer route. I think most people don’t even realise that half the knockbacks rangers get blamed for are from mesmers who practically have the exact same weapon.

INB4 vine item on steal

LoW actually sounds like it would be great for keeping seekers away on vail guardian. Same with other wall spells like spectral wall with necromancers.

Edit: actually a dragonhunter running longbow/staff would be able to control seekers for a rather long time while still doing decent damage. (not max damage obviously but as far as control builds go for pve it would be pretty kitten nice)

I imagine if your using the action cam and a thief shadowsteps behind you youl lose attack target anyway. If your not using it and you standing still it will probably follow like it does now.

I imagine if the thief is still in your attack radius with the action cam and he stealths your attacks will continue to hit them.

In all honesty. Id prefer that there be no complete invuln passives. The elixir s proc on engineer is an example of this.. I wouldn’t mind them being significant damage reductions. But completely losing the ability to pressure someone even for a few seconds can be lethal in a close team fight. And its pretty frustrating when you get the drop on someone and even though you KNOW you had them and outplayed them significantly they still get a free chance to recover because your burst isn’t the type that allows you to take out 25% of a players health in a single strike or you couldn’t double lock them with a CC just because they happen to be running x trait.

I wouldn’t say there “op” but I do believe that things that automatically save you without any input from the player should be discouraged. I don’t mind if the traits assist you. But they shouldn’t completely negate the opponents ability to affect you. Mitigating the affect of the dmg or cc by a heavy amount sure. But complete negation? That just seems a bit lame to me.

Ive been running shouts for a rather long time. Sic Em is working. The only part of the skill that might not work is the dmg and speed buff. But as Puck mentioned thats only if you give the pet another command after the initial use.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Otaur.9268:

@Roy Cronacher, would it be possible to use this same type of system except a maybe 25% damage reduction on pets in WvW? Pets die instantly in WvW battles and it would help immensely to make some class features available in WvW… Of course percentages can always be tweaked until a balance is found.

This is not currently possible. For this change we made creatures, at the base AI level, look at what they are targeting and what they hit to adjust damage accordingly, it has nothing to do with player damage interactions. Doing this for WvW. adjusting outgoing player damage to minions, is not tech we are currently working on and likely would cause some perf issues as well. Players attack much much more often then creatures. So doing checks on each one of the damage targets from a player can become expensive very quickly. Though, that’s not to say that we won’t ever consider investigating it, but for now this change is specifically for creatures attacking player minions and we’ll be balancing it and seeing how it goes.

Thats…unfortunate. It means rangers will still be limited to mid-small scale engagements in WvW. Theres plenty of those don’t get me wrong. But it does mean well still have that feeling of being less than usefull in fights for keeps or towers where aoes tend to be concentrated into kill zone’s.

Edit: Either way this is still a good change for PvE.

If there are enough hero challenges to completely unlcok the elite spec. And each one is worth 10. Then theres atleast 40 in the new territories. Honestly. Thats not too bad to me.

I don’t know about agro mechanics. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there are mechanics designed to make healing more difficult. Mobs that spawn walls that seperate players (like the mordrem snipers and wyvern flying trails). Mobs that launch poison fields at players receiving significant healing. Mobs that specifically target low health players.

Things like that.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Shadelang.3012:

snip

No offense, but you are the exactly the type of player (The people who play a pure and are not flexible with their spec choices) I wouldn’t want to be in the same team with. And that is perfectly okay if our goals are different as long as we found the right team for us. It’d be like joining a zerker speed run when you are clerics and want to kill everything.

I do understand your point, but that just doesn’t apply to world first guilds and is less true the higher the skill of your guild is. I used to play an elemental shaman, which is usually mediocre or low DPS on simcraft, but I still managed to be top DPS on a lot of fights for many reasons. 1. I was a good player and knew how to pad/cheese meters. 2. Other players in the guild were worst than me 3. The guild in general wasn’t skilled enough to beat encounters pre nerf or without over gearing encounters. #2 and #3 were the main reasons why I was able to top meters on a class that doesn’t sim well, if I was in a decent guild I would have been last on meters.

Also, there is no meta yet for raids. We have to make ourselves cause it’s new content. Your guess for what good is as good as mine is, and things can and will change from beta.

Haha no offense taken. Likewise I tend to see your viewpoint as equally inflexible just in a different form. Its one of the reasons I typically try to stay out of this type of convo. Becuase ultimately its two opposing viewpoints. I tend to base my playstyle on what I can realistically expect which I believe ill encounter most often. But its true in a “perfect” scenario my absolute capability is less in a specialized situation. The build I am intending to run will be a hybrid after all. I made it under the assumption that something does go wrong. Not on the assumption that everyone I play with will be perfect or near perfect. I hope to cover for the imperfections.

I ran with some extremely skilled guilds in my wow days. And I took part in the AQ40 rush for server first (we were late by 6 minutes -.-) so I very much understand your viewpoint. I don’t agree with it and part of me thinks it will cause a collapse at some point based on my previous experience. But at the same time I understand it and I believe your logic is sound. However.. I believe your logic is colored pretty heavily by the content we have available to us at this time. And assumptions made on future content. While I ended up with an opposing viewpoint based on my previous raiding experience.

Im not under the illusion that what I do will be best for a world first attempt. Infact Im not even going to attempt that for this raid (I probably will make the attempt for the next wing provided I find a team to run with). I tend to focus more on the stable approach.

In the end I feel its a difference in method of play. Which is interesting when ya think about it.

Edit: also Im not entirely inflexible with my spec choice haha. Im inflexible with my utility choice. Which is one part of a larger build. I know the utilities I use best. My traits are all subject to change. The only line I feel is mandatory for my playstyle is beast mastery. Its what I know best after all.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TurtleDragon.3108:

…Why not? It’s no different than using the right Talents/gear in WoW, LAS in Wildstar etc. Raids aren’t play how you want environments, and using the right builds or playing to your teams wishes is pretty standard.

It’s totally different because stats do not matter near as much here as elsewhere. This whole game is a play how you want environment, stats have nothing to do with being viable, they only make you more efficient. You can literally complete all content currently in the game with no armor or traits whatsoever. Raids will be harder, but I’m betting not as hard as people are expecting. They certainly will not be gear gated.

My point was that your guild wants you to run Cleric gear, so I wouldn’t want to be in that guild because I don’t want to run Cleric gear. 1250 healing power and +40% healing is ample, so, the rest of the stats are put into damage. Same as if they wanted me to run Soldiers for WvW or Sinister for dungeons. I don’t let people dictate to me how to play the game, I just play with people who know what they are doing, but are easy-going.

Stats and gear definitely do matter. If you don’t enjoy playing that way, it’s cool. But I do enjoy being in an environment where everyone is running the meta and trying to be efficient and the best player they can be for the team. We are preparing for the worst case scenarios where raids are actually hard instead of being under prepared and surprised. I maybe should have mentioned that my guild is participating in the world first race as well.

(stealing my way into your convo hope youl forgive me) I see your point. However I believe that non meta builds aren’t necessarily a hindrance. I believe its mostly up to playstyle.

When I was in Battle Knights in WoW I played a BM hunter. That was pretty much the build I only played. Ever..much like how I play a shout ranger in todays game. The reason for that is because it fit my playstyle the most. I was simply better at that build than I could be at any other build.

At first this was an issue for me. BM hunters weren’t meta except for a very small window in the burning crusade expansion. Typically survival or marksmanship rangers were the top dogs.

However I never had an issue finding a raid team. The reason for this is that I set myself a rule and made a bet with every raid team I joined. I’d always end my lfr posts with “If I am not in the top 3 dps on the meters I will pass on all loot”. I only had to pass on loot less than 10 times in the 7 years I played the game.

The reason for that is I played the build I knew with a 99%+ efficiency rate according to the recount meters (it would sometimes bug on certian fights and say I was at 110-120% due to boss mechanics). I knew exactly how to make the most of the build I was using. And I did it regularly. Also my build enabled me to do some unique things no one else could (offtanking a raid boss with a pet for a short time in order to finish it after the healers die so the tank could recover for one thing).

Now that isn’t the norm by any means. I was a no lifer who pretty much gave up any social life to play that game haha. But it does show that sometimes its more important to match a build to a playstyle than to run what is theoretically the best. I could theoretically have done around 17k more dps than the build I was running when I quit. However In actuality I probably would have done around 12k less.

What im saying is. While I firmly believe your right in most situations. Keep an eye out for the exceptions to the rule. There are some REALLY good players out there that run non meta builds to higher efficiency rates than the mast majority of meta players. So I have to reccomend not dismissing someone if there absolutely certain they can do better playing a different way. Give it a shot first and see if it works. If it doesn’t you were right. suggest that he go back and give the meta another shot. Atleast then youl have tried something new and he can also be satisfied for having made the attempt. That way he won’t feel bitter about playing a build he simply does not enjoy. Hel understand on a personnel level that theres a reason for it. And not just an arbitrary “I told you to do it so do it”

Rising Dusk.2408:

I just wanted to follow-up that I hope this never gets implemented in PvP environments. There are countless times where in a team fight you position yourself to cleave multiple minions or turrets or whatever down, and to have that damage reduced simply because you can only select one of them is awful. If minions are too weak in PvP/WvW, there should be traits that buff them up so that they can be useful.

For PvE, though, this is absolutely great. Thanks for this update.

Honestly? If pet builds don’t get this in pvp/wvw or atleast a weaker version of it. Then we need atleast the health boost that we get in PvE. At the VERY least. I can’t tell you how many times ive seen my pet just get slaughtered by accidental burn damage. To put it simply. if I wasn’t runnning trooper runes on my shout build for PvP and WvW. Id probably treat my pet the same way alot of other rangers to do. A cc bot whos only purpose is to pop taunt weakness and blind and not as an actual weapon. Im fine with my pet being killable. But it should die to purposeful intent. NOT accidental kitten all that neither party had any control over.

SirDerp.3520:

Wouldn’t it make more sense to give them a base “dodge” chance? Or would that be too much RNG?

That would be pretty rng and largely ineffective. It doesn’t matter if it auto dodges 9 attacks if the 10th one shots it. I have seen other games try it before. It ultimately made the pet users paranoid constantly watching there pets health wondering when there going to have to ressumon it because they honestly don’t know whether or not they need to pull it back.

@ Simplicity

Damage transfers in this game do what Ive heard called “True Damage” In other rpg games. Namely its damage that ignores any form of mitigation. For example if a ranger casts protect me his pet starts taking 100% of the damage he would have taken BEFORE any damage mitigation effect is taken into account. That includes bark skin for example which would have reduced the dmg the pet takes by 50%. Protection as well does not protect the pet from this damage as far as I can tell after 3 years of running shouts.

So the defender and horror you mentioned will still take full damage from the transfer. They just wont ALSO take x amount of extra damage that attack just happened to throw there way.

I.E. They won’t get double tapped.

Kitty.1502:

Shadelang.3012:

Heheheh not a bad change at all. When/if the core shouts get tweaked I think ill be pretty kitten set with my beast master build. This + the we heal as one shift is gonna make things better for my shout playstyle atleast.

please don’t use my character’s name in your speech.

There are entirely too many y’s in your name for that to apply

Heheheh not a bad change at all. When/if the core shouts get tweaked I think ill be pretty kitten set with my beast master build. This + the we heal as one shift is gonna make things better for my shout playstyle atleast.

Kinda hoping pets get this in WvW atleast. When theres 30 people in a ball the only thing my pets can do is just look at that and tell me to go shaft myself. I don’t like my pet telling me to go shaft myself. Even if tis not 95% something like 50% would actually make it potentially possible to sneak a pet through a ball into an enemy backline. As it is now though…good luck with that.

Atleast as far as hybrids go. Using zealots armor/weapons will prob be a good start. and swapping healing accessories in as necessary if the primary support player can’t handle the output. Prob around 700 healing power for a hybrid would be a good goal as far as I can tell.

Otherwise though. You can manage that by going with cleric/magi accessories.

Atleast what ill be running at first is Zealot armor/weapons. Either strength runes or a utility rune. and assassin’s accessories with zerk/magi rings/backpiece depending on content. Ill be running a self might shout build in order to make use of pet dmg to make up for my lack of ferocity since pets have a good survival rate in the boss fight we know about. My goal for healing power will be 700ish which with the new scaling should be enough to have the heals be useful without going all in to them kind of like an off healing druid in the old wow days.

For a full on healer though. Id have to reccomend a cleric/magi mix. You don’t want to have the max toughness if your going to be in melee. Or else youl pull agro from the boss.

@OP for the atlernative. Youl prob be okay going assassin’s armor with magi accessories. Youl use self mighting to get your power back up to pre might zerk levels. Your dps won’t be high but it won’t be nonexistent either and you’l still have high crit chance for procs.

I can’t remember exactly. But one thing I remember when I played druid during the beta is as long as the squad UI was up and running I think i could indeed see ally health bars. Atleast most of the time. It wasn’t very big or flashy but I remember them being there.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQJATRnUqA9Ci1CCuCCctgBMhyP8F4x/bYyr4eZHgAogVPA-TZRGABAcBA6uMwBHCgEeCAAt/AA

This is what ive been using since the specialization shift. Ive been running shouts for around since launch so I feel I know the build pretty well.

I have moderate to high success against D/D ellies. Soldier engineers give me much more trouble than DD ellies do.

The general Idea is might stacking for the pet. Getting 6 stacks of might whenever you swap onto the pet makes its first leap attack a killer. Combine with a well timed hilt bash for the bonus damage and youl see 7-9k crits. Ive downed thieves in under 3 seconds from a pet leap+maul combo.

You won’t have the highest personal damage with this setup. But thats generally not what shouts are about anyway. This is the closest thing ive found to the true beast master playstyle.

The shouts are very useful for stripping condis such as chill/weakness/blind off you and your pet. As well as cleansing your pet of the more deadly conditions it takes off of you. Evasive purity is very good at keeping you just barely out of enemy reach when combined with the natural vigor minor trait.

The build is mostly about timing in practice. Knowing exactly how to trigger your pet into certain combos and using your owns kills in conjuction with that. I have found canines work better with the shout utiltiies thank to there attack patterns and the way those patterns combine with sic em and guard. Putting your canine into stealth in order to mask its leap attack with the sic em buff is VERY rewarding.

If only the shout utilities themselves were better.

Anyway. I mostly solo pvp and solo roam in wvw. Havn’t met a build im not comfortable fighting aside from soldier engi.

Edit: when the heal as one change hits the might stacking potential is gonna be freaking AWESOME with a smokescale/wyvern combo.

posted the wrong build haha the right one is up now