Guild Wars 2

He meant to say that you were “flighty”.

This does not deserve a sticky.

The OP is actually from Mag. Not that it matters much. I’m not really referring to forum conduct in terms of my diminishing of respect for your server, unfortunately. You seem fine. I’ve enjoy this match too. Glad you did. But, yeah…at least with Dragonbrand it was a matter of getting outplayed by an organized force and I can respect that.

Ehmry? Well, I honestly think some people from your server earned what they got. Maybe not you. Maybe not even a large percentage. But some.

Although, as nice of a match up it was, I have lost some respect for Ehmry. I’d be lying if I said otherwise.

/shrug, says I. We learned just as much from that loss as we have from this win.

Doesn’t really do anything. Bags drop and you just take the whole stack. You still have to make sure you pick up the bag.

Why would we not fight? I mean, I understand that the point differential is there but calling it a day is a bit much.

Eliteseraph.4970:

Really Mag, you should be embarrassed.

I’m not from Mag but I feel I should say that after your post, they’re not the ones who should feel embarrassed. Sometimes, smart tactics means picking your targets and/or ignoring certain ones for those that you can take and hold. If, say, an enemy force is beleaguered by another enemy and you believe you can seize upon the advantage to destroy the first and then rout the second, that’s what you do.

Battle plans adapt and they generally shift in reaction to the actual conditions of the battlefield. You want to take that keep over there but it’s already being attacked by another enemy from the North? You attack from the South, split the initial forces focus and then crash in to take out the other enemy or at least drive them back. If you have the advantage, you attack where the advantage is. If you have the disadvantage, you avoid that spot or leave it.

There’s a shorter way to put all that. It’s called being smart.

I think off hour rotations became more important to TC (and possibly to Mag too; I’ve seen them make some fair off hour pushes)because of what happened with DB. I don’t know if we’re, overall, a more populated server though. The alliance thing is still pretty funny because it really was little more than strategies lining up. It wasn’t anything agreed upon or particularly planned.

I think this match has been a lot better for all three server than anything we had last week and hope that we can all be matched again in the near future. It’d be fun!

bwookie.3807:

What’ll be funny is TC will not be laughing if they go up a tier. Most likely TC will be facing Dragonbrand again. We’ll see you guys the week after that.

Shockingly, I’d welcome it. If anything, that match up taught us a lot. Would we win? I don’t know; especially judging from queue data and the fact that they’re also very smart players or, rather, there’s a lot of good guild coordination on that side. But we learned a lot from that match so, if anything else it’d be fun because it’d be interesting.

It is something of an annoyance that two of our maps "special mechanics are entirely based on PvPve. And that’s saying nothing of Capricorns sharks. It’s one of the reasons I dig Kyhlo so much.Trebs are not that big of a deal and it’s the closest thing to a “pure” PvP map in the game.

They should just replace it with Huttball.

Slamz.5376:

We’ve bombed Maguuma’s tower at Anzelias to where it has no walls. Tarnished is running past it, ignoring the fact that it has no walls, to continue attacking us. We’d take it but we can’t get through the Tarnishing/Maguuma alliance.
Oh yeah, no deals going on here.

Wait, your “proof” is that you flat out bombed a tower to rubble, meaning you have (I’d assume) a ton of treb focus on it. And you’re mad because of instead of taking the bait, trying to hold a position that was untenable in the long term with so much fire focused on it, your enemy saw through you and ignored the death box?

That’s sort of like saying “We were fighting Maguuma and this Tarnished Coast player saw us all and ran away!”; of course that’s going to be the case, because it’d be a fight they’d just get shattered in. The same applies for flipping a tower that’s been shelled to rubble. What’d be the point? Holding one tower for, what, ten minutes as your enemy moves across the bridge, enjoys fire support, and swarms it?

Roland Falantyr.3290:

@nefloyd:

Yea, because Ehmry started this thread right?

No. But you are claiming it had an effect of any kind. Without any real means to largely back up what your saying. That is, everything you are explaining can be explained through strategic decisions. Sort of like how Mag and EB decided to push back heavily in the TC borderlands because it was all green for a fair bit of time.

By your logic, I’d have to assume that someone from EB or Mag called a conclave and made a secret blood oath instead of seeing opportunities and taking them. You can try to paint your initial missteps whatever way you want. Doesn’t mean we can’t sit here and laugh at the tinfoiling.

Supersun.4603:

I think it’s clear that while Mag in general may not have an alliance with TC, Goon Squad either does, is completelykitten or is playing for second.

First options isn’t likely since they led a big focus on Bluevale and Bluebriar for about an hour and a half. Might still be. People don’t invest that much time at a single target if they’re secret war buddies with the people holding it.

There should be, at a minimum, some way for beleaguered worlds to push back into a zone. I’m not sure what that would be though. My first thought would be supply to deal with siege at their gates but that implies a limitless supply unless it only kicked in when no other places were held.

Ideally, I feel like this countermeasure should be tied to the Outmanned buff but I’m not sure how. Increased toughness? All stats boosted like orbs? I really have no idea.

I don’t think a map reset is the solution though. I think it’d be more satisfying for an outmanned team to manage to push back somehow.

We’re still talking about this stuff?

EDIT: I should probably expand on this, although I would think that any knowledge of strategy makes this all clear. Talks of alliances are stupid because there haven’t been any. There’s been way too much three way fighting and attacks for anyone to think that.

OP, I’m from the Coast too. If EB and Mag want to turn their focus to us, it’s because we have the overall lead. The same reason why TC and Mag tended to focus on Ehmry earlier yesterday (besides the fact that both sides generally needed to regain strong footholds in positions they lost). Can we all just accept the fact that this is a pretty evenly tiered match that’s been really exciting? Is that too hard?

The potential points tend to swing upwards to one side for a bit, then the pie equalizes (that is, it tends to split at around 200-250 each), then it happens again where another server makes a large push and holds for a while. It’s a pretty consistent pattern. EB’s just getting edgy because Mag’s playing really well tonight, getting their upswing where TC had theirs for a lot of the day, and will catch them sooner or later if they maintain pressure over the week.

But here’s the thing…I know EB can play harder. And I’m saying this as someone from TC. They have that potential if they really plan out their assaults the way that their opponents have been.

Honestly, I don’t think we could have asked for much of a better match up. No matter who wins or loses, I think we can agree it’s all been pretty good fighting.

OP. Simple question: do you have no stun breakers? Beyond that, you know the stun duration is HALF a second, right? Dodge roll. If you’re immobilized and have no breaker, it’s your fault for eating the skill. If they’re using Haste and a Venom to root you, that might give an excuse for one of you dying but it means that your other friends should have no issue taking them out.

It’s a fair idea but Blossom have never really been the thing that Power and Weapon damage Thieves are meant to build around anyway. I don’t think that your suggestion is the worst idea but I do think it’s not really necessary.

Psh! That was clearly misdirection meant to throw us off your trail. We all know what really happened! Admit it!

(Satire. I say this people I think some people here might actually not get it.)

By the logic of a lot of people in this thread, there must be a pact between Mag and Ehmry now, considering the big dual pronged DB assault.

Except, you know what? Yeah, I’m pretty sure that’s not the case. It was two teams working at a target they both wanted. Funny how that works without any need for conspiracy.

An alliance can’t fall apart if it doesn’t exist. Do you folks enjoy fantasy land instead of the real world or something?

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Runes of the Thief on armor. Soldier’s Amulet w/ Berserker’s Jewel.

Sigil of Frailty on Sword. Sigil of Strength on Pistol. Gives chances to build Might and to apply Vulnerability on crits.

Offset is Dual Pistols, Ice Sigils but this set can be open to whatever Sigil choice you want. Can be replaced with Shortbow if you want extra mobility.

General overview is here . It has the utility set up for a Pistol Whip burst but it actually does a lot more of it’s damage through Infiltrator’s Strike and the various bonuses we get from dodging and attacking positionally.

To wit:

- Power of Inertia (Dodging stacks Might)
- Fluid Strikes (10% damage increase is Endurance isn’t full)
- Executioner (20% damage increase when enemy is at half health)
- Side Strike (7% Crit chance increase when attacking from the side or behind)
- Rune of the Thief (10 damage increase when attacking from the side of behind)
- First Strikes (10% damage increase when Initiative is over six)

Defensively, dodging gives some Initiative back, drops caltrops, and gives swiftness. Stealing gives Initiative back and our pool is increased by three passively. Helps with First Strikes.

In depth analysis is here . With suggested rune changes, potential weapon set substitutions, and minor trait changes. Main suggestion is to have the 10 slot in Crit. Strikes use Side Strike and then have the 20 use Critical Haste. It works well, considering our higher precision and crit chance.

The build is about dodging and picking your targets well. Vitality is high, toughness is low (barring some changes to runes). The Venom, Haste, PW use should really only be for emergencies or for burning high priority targets. It’s not really something to be spammed since we can do enough damage with our other bonuses and have a decent uptime if we use dodging and Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return to our advantage.

^
Who are you? And why are you talking if you don’t know what you’re talking about?

Cufflink.3985:

Yes. The word for this is strategy.

I knew there was a one word answer! I knew it!

Roland Falantyr.3290:

Just stop. we all know what happened.

We do. Two “losing” teams decided, having dealt with a large zergfest from their prior match up, to deny the dominant team the map control necessary to keep their lead. Alongside this, in various Borderlands, these two teams continued to harass each other. This largely took the form of sabotaging supply lines in the hope of weakening the other force for later attacks. A larger push was attempted by one of these teams on a rival’s valley keep in the Eternal Battlegrounds but the line held, convincing the (for lack of a better term) defeated team that continued attack wasn’t tenable and to focus attacking a different front that would yield better results

This was done without major forms of communication, with continued skirmishes at camps and towers between these two forces, while they also attacked the dominant force with significant results.

This setback led certain individuals to concoct not one, but two separate explanations from what occurred that appear to have little grounding in the actual beyond the fact that this apparently beleaguered and aggrieved homeworld faced attack on two fronts and could not muster sufficient defense to defend the large holdings they’d claimed, which made them into a target to begin with.

Am I missing any details?

Wait, wait. Let me get this straight. One person says that Mag decided to ignore TC in order to get back their holdings this afternoon and this is an alliance? Even though that information isn’t correct and the two servers have been fighting? Even thought TC never has reciprocated upon this?

That doesn’t sound like an alliance. It sounds like Mag made a strategic decision to focus on a particular foe. And that foe was the one that held more of the map and thus, had more potential points to give up. Alliance, again, implies communication and coordination between two forces. Yet, I’ve killed more Mag today than Ehmry, overall. So either your definition of alliance is not what any dictionary is telling me or something is really, really off here.

Slamz.5376:

I don’t have any illusion that all of Maguuma agreed to an alliance with all of Tarnished.

You should. At least insofar as that there’s not really a lot to show this. Mag still attacks TC and there’s been no mention, any time I’ve be on (from any major leadership for that matter) of such a thing. So, if all of Maguuma made this decision, they made it alone. And if that’s the case, then that’s not really great thinking.

But here’s the thing: I’m pretty sure that Mag’s smarter than that. So…yeah.

Roland, calls have to be answered. I’ve killed every Mag attacker I’ve seen. Taken as much Mag holdings when the chance has presented itself as I have Ehmry. I spent an afternoon doing it. In fact, all territory I attacked and defended this afternoon was against Mag. And this was not part of some large, Machiavellian scheme but because they were attacking TC territory.

What makes you think, for an instant, that the entirety of our server has read this thread? Cares about this thread? Or even decided to listen to the OP, except for the fact that you can’t hold on to what you take?

You realize that you made yourselves the prime target by taking as much as you did, right? That’s how it works. You have to prevent major periods of uncontested holding or else the lead someone has gradually snowballs.

Cufflink.3985:

Wow this thread has become hilarious. The tin foiling and narrative building would make a conspiracy convention proud.

It makes me laugh because I personally think this has been a very exciting and generally goodnatured fight all around, save for a few folks causing trouble but that’s the case for any server. Mag actually seems a bit more organized this time around, which is cool. Ehmry’s faltered a bit but they’re still pretty decent opponents, I’d say. Coast, I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but we’ve been trying to get things locked down tight. Playing a bit more aggressively than we could manage against DB. And we’re keeping to pretty clear roles for zones.

I actually think a lot more people from all the servers have a been hold on things and their strategies. Spent most of the afternoon preventing Mag from starving our supplies and building up our own locations for solid defense. Had a dedicated team working the north of the borderlands, which organized and started to really get rolling defensively while we had a larger forces moving to the south.

You can see it with other servers too. Ehmry’s been pretty good about routing teams that are taking towers, letting them do a lot of them legwork first, and then swooping in. It’s smart play. I think everyone’s exhibiting their own tactical/strategic acumen.

So, this thread? Seems silly. Conspiracy theories seem silly because there’s been way too much fighting to dispel the notion of truces and, more importantly, there’s still a long way to go until the finish and things are far more balanced than last week.

PS. It also makes me laugh because having one person say “Well, our commander said to focus on Red for now and not Green” means, well, that they wanted to focus on Red first and not green. Pretty much what it says on the tin.

Tsuroyu.7956:

I’m a bit confused by the continued attempts to justify these two servers working together against Ehmry Bay.

Working together still implies a concerted, deliberate effort to coordinate with each other. There really isn’t. You’re just the better target, strategically and tactically from battle to battle. If that’s a “justification”, you should bear in mind that you can’t really justify what doesn’t exist (ie. some type of formal alliance).

For the record, we’re fighting Mag at Bluebriar and the SE of the TC Borderlands. We’re not all, say, turning and attacking Redlake as a two server team. Interesting how that works.

RagingPwner.1530:

People from Mag are on this forum right now posting that their commanders are telling them to ignore TC and attack EB. You cant deny that you guys are in collusion. Mag is admitting it.

Do you understand what collusion really is? It’s an actual agreement between two parties, which also means communication and, often, general coordination. The term implies secretive behavior but it seems to me that there’s not really been any direct communication, just a tactical understanding on the part of Maguuma and TC that Ehmry is a prime target because if either team wants to take first, they need to prevent Ehmry from building any type of demonstrative lead.

All it is, is a smart shift of strategy. In fact, it seems to be part of the general idea behind three forces facing each other. It provides an organic means to take on the most dominant force at any given time.

RagingPwner.1530:

This same exact thing was going on yesterday at server reset when no team had any lead. In Eternal Battlegrounds, both teams were attacking EB exclusively. There wasnt one battle going on between the 2 in the southern border.

This is demonstrably false, unfortunately. TC pushed quite a bit on on the Quentin, Danelon, Langor trinity for quite some time. But it’s always tricky to fight that close to the enemies keep without really mustering a force to try to break that as well. So that southern push kept up for some time until it was clearer that Speldan, Mendon’s, and Anz gave the clear foothold.

I imagine that those southern areas will see more action throughout today.

I do think it is sort of interesting that EB is assuming major collusion between the other servers. We don’t really talk much with them at all. And even that’s been a charitable assessment of any interaction with Mag. This is just what happens when a team takes the lead. They tend to become the focus. If TC or Mag manages to pull ahead, they same thing will generally happen.

It’d be a bit harder from Mag, considering the points but they’re tough enough that they could work some Mag-ic. (Heh, puns!). TC’d be closer. I don’t really see what a lot of the arguing is about here and I wouldn’t paint with a large brush about any of the servers much. TC’s got a fair bit of organization but nothing back-breakingly amazing, Mag’s down but they’re tenacious enough, and Ehmry does seem to have a stronger night presence judging from what we saw but that force can be pushed back and was (although I admit I’d slightly ignorant of what happened following some of that pushback, 5AM EST becomes a bit of a “You should probably sleep now.” time.

Overall, I think this is a really exciting still!

Except for the whole “We took back all of TC Borderlands” bit. Seems to have gotten EB a bit upset.

This has been a great match. I think that a lot of swings could happen over the session. TC on top but Ehmry with the orbs for now. Mag trailing but still putting up a good fight. I think we’re in for something fun!

We’re not gonna be. It’s gonna be a pretty fair match all around.

“—Pistol Whip damage reduced by 30%, Self root has been removed, Stun has been replaced with a 1s daze.”

15% at max. Because the burst is still warranted for the weapon set. Daze is fine. Smart use of the skill would allow it to still function as an interrupt.

“— Flanking strike now performs an evade and Shadowsteps behind the target.”

They need to make some type of change, for sure. At least, alter the animation so that it doesn’t turn the player to their target’s front if they they are already behind them.

“— Shadow return has been added to the Steal mechanic. Has it’s own icon and takes it’s place next to steal as F2. Ability is greyed out and only able to be activated after steal is used.”

With the potential caveat that it should be under consideration if this Shadow Return should purge conditions. If it does, it’s still okay because it’d be on a CD but it might make skills like the actual Shadowstep utility or Infiltrator’s Strike not as useful.

I’d add to this list either some path fixing to Infiltrator’s Arrow or a minor range increase. Not sure which.

mcl.9240:

…which is interesting, since Dragonbrand do as well. Yet both TC and Maguuma are between those two in the rankings and neither have a strong off-peak presence.

One might expect it is because the two servers still put up a competent fight? I’d almost think that the rating is partially measured by the relative rates of gains and a few other factors besides mere map domination.

*TC, Aspenwood, Sanctum of Rall.

*Maguuma, Darkhaven, Sorrow’s Furnace.

Those are the only two predicted match ups I have.

EDIT: I also predict, like most, that Henge of Denravi faced ET and smokes them like a gas station cigar.

The boosts are nice but I feel like those things are partially what the orbs should be about. Give some gathering and EXP boosts to orbs and there’s a lot of incentive for a server to hold them because that would effect everyone on the server. A stat boost is acceptable with this as well but it cannot be too large.

Outmanned should probably not affect anything in terms of gains. To the victors go the spoils, after all. What it should do is help maintain a competitive parity for the team on the ropes. Again, noting excessive but something that helps them be a bit competitive. Minor stat bonuses. Perhaps increased badge drops to help with procuring siege, within reason. That sort of thing.

I’m certainly willing to give it time. Overall, I enjoy this match for most of the week. Regardless of the DB zerg and numbers presence, I found that the match up between Mag was nice, even though the skirmishes tended to be smaller. For DB, it was fair enough and there was never sense of necessarily being outplayed but just outmanned. Which are two entirely different things.

If, and I think it’s fair to acknowledge that this is certainly an if, match making can consider the relative point spreads, general win percentages, and potentially hours of play per server, we’re going to get the proper match ups. Time will tell, however, if this system truly works.

This data should be used, along with the relative rankings to pit proper servers against each other. Or at least be brought into the consideration.

Nothing “wrong” with the win at all. Regardless, the data we’ve recieved explains what we all know and pretty much dispells the notion of superior strategy and tactics on their part. During the hours where the number of players across all three server was concurrently the highest, DB saw significant (read: noticeable) pushback. And even then, that wasn’t just do to numbers equalizing because the relative numbers still don’t tend to show complete parity.

werewolf.8703:

4) remember when a thief use his pistol wipe ability he have no dodge after that.

You can break the channel on PW and cancel the attack, thus stopping the self root. PW only will prevent dodge if used with Haste as well.

There can be adjustments to the move, but minor at best. Major executions of it have a lot of downsides and smart players can avoid it. Failure to connect with certain skill combos leaves the player in a terrible situation as well. It should remain because SP doesn’t have a lot of damage potential without the skill unless you really work a build that offers damage boons and flat bonuses to your attacks in general.

Which can be done, to be sure. I have build that only uses PW sparingly. Uses my main attack a lot but it requires a lot of set up and smart target choices. But without PW having some general effectiveness, the weapon set suffers. So, if there are adjustments, they probably can’t be the major nerf people might want. Just some tweaking.

ANet loves PvE in their PvP. It’s like they saw a Reese’s Cup and thought: “Yes! That!”.

Please. DB doesn’t have small groups. Unless 30 is small.

The two and three slots are close. Had plenty of chances to pass Mag but DB seems to have a real love for attacking the Coast comparatively. Shame because as much as I’ve found a lot of Mag players to be fair folks, they’re not really that competent in my eyes. Just fortunate to not have to endure the zerg as much until the obligatory night flips. They’re average fighters but decent chaps. I’ll give them that. Save for a few rotten apples. It would have been a bit more interesting a match if we could have faced each other more.

DB? Well, they’re relentless and I admire their tenacity but they exhibit no tactics or strategy really. They just have a constant rotation of players. Read their “battle plans” on their forums before lockdown and it seemed detailed but in practice it’s just zerg, zerg, more zerg with the occasional zerg on top. If they move up in ranking, they’re in for a rude awakening.

cyrealkylla.7145:

lol fine sharp tell me what other class gets that much burst from one button…still waiting

Nothing about the way you died was one button.

Some of the only real questions of balance comes in the nature of the Outmanned buff and orbs, I think.