Guild Wars 2

skupuz.6940:

Sinsko.9342:

When a CLASS DEFINING ability that we’ve been using for the last 6 months (and almost a year if you played through the betas) gets changed… you have to wonder what happened.

However, the patch notes were very subtle about the change, and I personally haven’t seen a post from ArenaNet.

Why was stealth changed?
Is there a post (from ArenaNet) explaining the reason for the change?

I’ve seen discussion threads like these:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Enemies-are-expert-trackers-now-stealth/
But would love to get a REAL response.

I would like to hear their thought process behind this one.

I second that.

jportell.2197:

IF you are a mesmer beating a P/D thief please give me tips because these guys stack so many bleeds…. And mesmers condi removal sucks… Worse than a warrior. :/ But if the march fix is going to permanently solve culling lets see what happens there… But if the thief complaints still continue then it means that the devs need to take a much harder look at stealth and all the perks that a thief gets with stealth.. I know it is the mechanic of the class. But i don’t think any class can get as high damage buffs/boons/defensive options rolled into one with their class mechanics.

There is always a counter.

Here’s a start.

Rune of Melandru + Veggie Pizza will kitten their DPS so badly. Reducing their 7 sec bleed tick to just 2 sec. Congratz, you just reduce their DPS by 60-75%.

Columba.9730:

BojacDR.2104:

It doesn’t seem to affect my D/P thief much. I purposely aggro’d a few mobs on me and then stealthed and ran. Came out of stealth and they aggro’d on me again so popped another stealth and kept on running. Lost aggro this time. They regained health but so didn’t I. That seems fair. I promptly went back and killed them.

I love thieves but I don’t understand the “Hey! You’re not suppose to hit me anymore! I stealthed! I stealthed!” mentality. Stealth is a great tool but not meant to be a one-button “Get Out of Jail Free” card.

That’s why most games don’t allow stealth to lose aggro. The change made great sense, and thieves are still very powerful.

There is something terrible wrong or seem wrong with the aggro table. When I stealth, the mob will de-aggro and attack someone else but as soon as I leave stealth it seems to me that I am automatically place first on the aggro table. I even tried this with SF for long duration stealth and it still happens.

I don’t mind that we will have to manage aggro more closely, however I do mind that just because we use stealth thief are auto placed to the top of the aggro table.

Anet should look into this.

I was in WvW last night and fought a ranger and two other thieves. It was too much for me to handle so I SF and retreated. I broke LOS from the ranger and thieves and was a good distance from them. Then out of no kittening where, this kittening wolve was on my kitten with the owner no where to be seen….wtf.

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

How about you don’t kitten Sword/Dagger over just to bring kittening Dagger/Dagger in line!?

How are the proposed change going to kitten over S/D??

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

During the fight on the build, they had a good chance to kill you when you missed 2 CnD. Too bad they didn’t know what they were doing and 1 or 2 were uplevel.

Sorry but if I saw you in WvW with that build of yours, you will either die in 10 sec or will be running for the hills.

D/P is too cheesy for me and I’m Back Stab build…

Yeap, I missed CnD multiple times… and used teleport (since I think my stealth’s were down)

Backstab builds it depends… if it’s a 1v1..You won’t win..I’ll kill you and move along, However if you jump me while i’m fighting a large group of people..I’m pretty much screwed (along with most people)..

If you were D/P though you’d crap on me..that build eats P/D builds up very easily.

I’m D/D S/D.

Want to duel? If I win, you pay me the gem I paid to get there and pay me gems to get back to my server. If you win, I’ll give you 25 gold.

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

During the fight on the build, they had a good chance to kill you when you missed 2 CnD. Too bad they didn’t know what they were doing and 1 or 2 were uplevel.

Sorry but if I saw you in WvW with that build of yours, you will either die in 10 sec or will be running for the hills.

D/P is too cheesy for me and I’m Back Stab build…

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

killimandros.5087:

I dont believe you were being sarcastic. I believe youve just read it or been explained it. Sorry. Shame the reading or explanation didnt fully explain how an ele works, and why venoms. Leaving you with a big 0 (nothing) look in your eyes from this post. Now, stealth and culling abuse. Thats what I was discussing. Btw, you dont need more than 1 stealth to take on an ele. Not even a bs from stealth one. Some videos show thiefs doing this with relative ease, and its not a d/d specc.
I highlight stuff when I know I have the tl;dr gang reading. Hence caps. You cant use more than caps 5 max 6 times anyway, as 7 words become meaningless to them. And if you watched the video, he uses his p/d about half of the fight. WHat does he use the rest of the fight?

Please post video of a good thief owning a good ele with ease by using just 1 stealth skill.

Xsorus.2507:

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

They could also 1 shot someone….and I’m not talking about 3 hit in 1. I’m talking about just 1 button…

jkctmc.8754:

I run a bunker style Thief now, with very little stealth, running primary sword to teleport around, and confuse the enemy. My bunker Thief outperforms my bunker Guardian, and Bunker Warrior ten-fold. Thieves who know how to play the class will be perfectly fine.

Even running very little, to no stealth, I die rarely, if at all. Hell, I have more stealth on my Mesmer now, than I do my Thief.

Quit being bads, and learn the Thief please. You don’t need stealth to win fights.

“This is what a good Thief looks like, and how noobish he makes the Ranger class look”

You made the above comment in response to a dagger/dagger thief video. The thief in the video uses stealth heavily.

So what is it? Is the thief in the video bad and need to learn the thief??? Make up your mind.

Is this a joke?

It has been this way for a long time!

Adaneshade.2409:

I also play a thief as a main (1200 hours and 14k kills in WvW mostly solo) I actually agree with the OP about needing changes to stealth. I would prefer to see the thief go more along the lines of the assassin from GW1.

Instead of making the player totally invisible to the enemy, just make them transparent and add in a chance to evade incoming attacks. Note this should be a CHANCE not 100% but some percentage that could be tweaked in testing.

This would make it so that stealth still performs it’s basic defensive purpose but removes the issue of fighting against an opponent you can only see 40% of the time.

How would one backstab or Tactical Strike an enemy at 130 range if you can clearly see it comming?

How would Shadow Refuge work? Do I just stand in the hut and let people hit me?

xiv.7136:

Xsorus.2507:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy96IsNrMa0

This is an example of why stealth needs a nerf.

This is me on my thief.

Agreed.

1- 14 stealth via heal/cnd/bp for the first 4 mins. Thief was visable 75% of the time.
2 – Player is troll p/d spec. Mind you he is horrible at landing CnD. Made numerous mistake but the players he was playing against were even worst.
3 – A competant glass thief would destroy him
4 – How easy it is to play a condition thief
5 – The point of the video is to nerf stealth yet he was visible 75% of the time. If you want to make a “nerf stealth” thread, you should spec d/p.

Xeph.4513:

Stark.1350:

lol, the overreaction here is making my slow afternoon at the office quite amusing. Calm down. It’s a game.

People have the right to an opinion, regardless if its a game or not and these forums are provided for people to express those opinions in any form or manner they choose.

I understand that it might seem like people are overreacting, but they’re angry, this will probably die down by tomorrow.

I beg to differ that you can express your opinions in any form or manner you choose. We have to post per the forum rules and as such I have reported you for making a post just for the sake for ranting without leaving much room for discussion/suggestion.

This is no different than a thief QQ post.

JonPeters.5630:

There are some updates missing from the notes. We are tracking down those, but some changes to the D/D and S/D ele build are in this patch despite not being in the notes.

Why don’t you post this under News and Annoucements so people know about this too?

Jayne.9251:

Sifu.6527:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

JQ must be the most bored server now. No competition can’t be any fun.

I think they’re trying to get the most point as possible to push SoS to T2 so they can fight BG next match. Very smart move on JQ part. Why fight SoS next match again when you know they are a T-2-8 server now.

lol if that was the case, they’d leave SoR alone …

Congratulations to JQ. That’s a major feat. However creating another thread for it when you already did it in your match thread is kind of like rubbing salt in people’s wounds.

Yeah, they should leave SOR alone so it will lower SoS score even more.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

JQ must be the most bored server now. No competition can’t be any fun.

I think they’re trying to get the most point as possible to push SoS to T2 so they can fight BG next match. Very smart move on JQ part. Why fight SoS next match again when you know they are a T-2-8 server now.

Okamy.8235:

Doesn’t sound like a nerf.

25% increase cool down to RTL is harsh.

Evasive Arcana took a nerf too.

Rest are buffs

Silver.4798:

What is the saturation point for condition damage? After poking around this forum, it seems that most condi thiefs have stats along the lines of ~17k HP and ~1300 condition damage (ballpark range).

I’m asking because right now I do about 1100 ish condition damage and from the damage perspective I’m doing alright, my HP is around 16500, I’m pretty sure by the time I upgrade my gear I’ll get 17,500 HP and 1300 condition damage. But since I rely heavily on signet of malice I’m thinking of picking up + healing gear in terms of jewelry, sacrifice some condition damage and stay around 1100 rather than try to get it to 1300.

Sound like a good idea? I haven’t been poking around much in Orr yet, mostly I’m doing just CoF (to get mah gear!). Maybe that’s giving me a false sense of security, lemme know what you think!

2250 condition damage would be too much. 150 a tick is sick tho…

waha.4921:

I have a dream .. 4 waypoints

Waha

ZONE COMPLETION TIME@!@@@@@

oZii.2864:

Sifu.6527:

/facepalm. Getting desperate man…

What’s next? 20 Norn with snow leop elite stealth at the same time forcing culling?

We need to nerf Norns and Snow leopards!!! They have to much mobility and they get invis with knockbacks. Have you guys fought a group of 5 norns its impossible to win.

I fought 4 of them one time, that kitten is OP. They basically have Ele’s RTL but it is in stealth!!!

koroshi.2658:

Hello everyone,

I have just started a new project which will show thief duels vs every class. This is the first video.

Thief versus thief!

All footage was taken from my own stream!

The first couple of fights….you had keep buffs????

killimandros.5087:

Sifu; you need 3 thieves, 13 players of whatever class with their brains connected to their spine. You make 3 SR, people enter and can attack unseen. 15 people stealthed. You have 4 thieves. You have 5 thieves…see the problem? SR last so long with the culling and a handy mesmer a huge group can attack unseen and fight unseen 15-20 seconds. I have a thief, as I pointed out. Its not hard to make a puzerg stand under the hut, add swiftness on them and finally memser stealth line. Culling takes care of the rest. The bigger group, the longer culling. Hence its a problem in WvW not pve or spvp.

Take a look at how some of the most known guild groups abuse this. A couple of weeks ago, we fought RG. Most of the time we were running around without seeing them. If stealth makes this possible, be it thieves, mesmers, its a huge impact to wvw. It is THE biggest problem, because it ONLY gives huge groups benefits. The bigger the grooup, the more effective the stealth.
and Sifu, I just noticed your last 50 posts are all about defending thieves abilities, so Im not going to argue anymore with you :-) (apart from the one where you challenge anyone to fight your p/d build, which is the same one I use, its neat)

I guess your first statement would work if there’s no such thing as reveal but hey fI want to hear you out. What are you suggesting to fix this?

killimandros.5087:

Sifu; you need 3 thieves, 13 players of whatever class with their brains connected to their spine. You make 3 SR, people enter and can attack unseen. 15 people stealthed. You have 4 thieves. You have 5 thieves…see the problem? SR last so long with the culling and a handy mesmer a huge group can attack unseen and fight unseen 15-20 seconds. I have a thief, as I pointed out. Its not hard to make a puzerg stand under the hut, add swiftness on them and finally memser stealth line. Culling takes care of the rest. The bigger group, the longer culling. Hence its a problem in WvW not pve or spvp.

Take a look at how some of the most known guild groups abuse this. A couple of weeks ago, we fought RG. Most of the time we were running around without seeing them. If stealth makes this possible, be it thieves, mesmers, its a huge impact to wvw. It is THE biggest problem, because it ONLY gives huge groups benefits. The bigger the grooup, the more effective the stealth.

/facepalm. Getting desperate man…

What’s next? 20 Norn with snow leop elite stealth at the same time forcing culling?

killimandros.5087:

Im not trying to force anything on anyone. I am just merely pointing out the fact this thread intentionally was NOT about the thief on a small scale note, but problems one of its abilities would make in a wvw situation. Maybe you need new glasses or someone to help you read and explain text /facepalm. Theres countless threads about thieves being op, while this one interestingly enough started off as pointing out problems STEALTH can make. I really wanted to add “political uninterested” in anciant greek, but ill hold myself.

“Thieves have abilities which makes large group of players invisible "

Then don’t make comment like this without knowing stealth mechanics. We do have abilities that stealth a SMALL number of players (5) invisible but no where near what a single mesmer is capable of.

And I get your point. This thread isn’t about thief – it is about stealth in general. It is fine to redirect the thread back on course but when you make false statement like that how can I take you seriously?

Edit*
“If you didnt know SF affects a large gfroup of players, maybe you would be better off not adding into the discussion.”

Killimandros…the door out is that way.

killimandros.5087:

Just remember this thread originally wasnt about thieves 1v1, it was about abusing the stealth mechanic, which is the most interesting topic. WvW is about large scale combat, not 1v1 or 1v5, thats spvp. Problem is still; Thieves have abilities which makes large group of players invisible for a long time, due to culling bugs etc and whatnotwhatever. Anet need to divide these issues into 2 separate ones, thieves abilities into one (balancing issue) and their ability to cvreate huge disparities in the wvw scene when 2 equal groups fight each other. How are they going to fix the culling abusing warbands?

I didn’t know SF affected a large group of players….What you are talking about is Veil and Mass stealth which are Mesmer abilities.

If this thread is really about mass group stealth and its affect on culling, direct your attention to the mesmer.

If this thread is really about curpstomping people 1v1 using stealth, direct your attention to the thief.

You can’t blame the thief for mass group stealth when the mesmer is the culprit.

Musty.3148:

Magiofdeath.2745:

Well, this is definitely a different post – hearing about the experience from the other side (the thief side). Regardless, this will end up in linksville just like the other thief post. I agree with your post though.

Hell, I’ve been saying this for months, I stopped playing my 80 thief because it’s an imbarassingly easy class to curbstomp people with. Any of you kids playing them should be imbarrassed for picking and continuing to play such an imbarrassingly OP class.

I can stealth into a zerg, DPS someone down, restealth, stomp and SB out in about 5 seconds without taking 1 damage. I did it all the time, literally.

If I get into a fight and start getting wrecked, Just TP/SB/Stealth out, reset the fight, go back in and curbstomp the poor fool(s) that used all their cooldowns to try to kill me.

Anyone that is Pro-stealth as is is really just kidding themselves. It’s way out of whack probably because of the culling. But they really need to make a short term fix until they can get culling fixed or it’s going to cost a lot of players.

So…thief is easymode you say and we should reroll. From your signature, we should all reroll ele/mesmer/guardian…oh wait those classes are all OP in their own ways too. LMAO

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I watched your Ranger Pain Inverter 1 video. The first fight is vs a thief and you destroyed him.

So what is it? A thief can take 5 players with no problem at all? BS much? Based on your video, a single thief can barely handle a ranger which is considered a free kill for the thief. In that case, buff thief and stealth!!!

This thread is a bust. Mod please close.

Yes, a thief died because he chose to spam his attacks while he had 5 seconds of confusion on him.

Yes, sometimes bad players do actually die in pvp.

I’m recording more video for another Thief Video….I’ll try and post it here in next few days showing how silly it gets.

So it basically comes down to skill and learning to play!

A thief can take on 5 people if those players are clueless but would have a hard time vs 1 good player. Seems balance to me.

killimandros.5087:

Sifu.6527:

killimandros.5087:

Yesterday my guildteam witnessed 2 thiefs making shadfow refugee, a group of 20 people entered, and thats the last we saw of them (they were roughly 8-10 sec. run away from us). Luckily we spotted them and were prepared for incoming, which came, invisible of course. So there we were spamming aoe against an invisible force attacking us. In the mid fight 2-3 of them appeared, then when the match was over we could see most of them again. Still a couple of “red” guys popped up a bit after the actual fight. This is what stealth plus culling does. Players WILL abuse this mechanic as long as it is not considered an offensive exploit. Was this intended Anet? Is this how you want WvW to be played?

Yes working as intended.

If you would, go watch some of the guild vs guild fights (25v25). Almost all fights begin with mesmer’s veil ability. At least with SF, there is a limit on how many players it will stealth. There is no such limit on the mesmer’s veil ability.

I just went through all class mechanics, responses from Anet on this issue, and I cant find anywhere where it is stated that in a group of 25++ fighting each other, it is intended that one of them should be able to stay stealthed, incvisible, for 20++ seconds, not including the time it takes from the stealth was cast to the moment the combat started (in this case about 8-10 secs). If you have other info, please highlight it and preferably link to official response/explanation. As far as I know, no class should be able to stealth themselves, permanent or for such a long duration. Not to mention a full warband. Am I wrong? Add this into huge battles, the ones at the upper tiers, and you can see the immense lag this creates as well. ANd yes, I have a fully decked thief so I know what I can do to stay permastealthed and stealth many people for long duration times. I am kinda hoping it was not intended, because it is so out of balance, specially to classes with little to no AoE.

I tried to search for it but I couldn’t find it. Nor could I find anything that would hint it is an exploit or not intended.

I re-read your original post and I am confused. I thought Shadow Refuge only affected 5 players…is this incorrect?

killimandros.5087:

Yesterday my guildteam witnessed 2 thiefs making shadfow refugee, a group of 20 people entered, and thats the last we saw of them (they were roughly 8-10 sec. run away from us). Luckily we spotted them and were prepared for incoming, which came, invisible of course. So there we were spamming aoe against an invisible force attacking us. In the mid fight 2-3 of them appeared, then when the match was over we could see most of them again. Still a couple of “red” guys popped up a bit after the actual fight. This is what stealth plus culling does. Players WILL abuse this mechanic as long as it is not considered an offensive exploit. Was this intended Anet? Is this how you want WvW to be played?

Yes working as intended.

If you would, go watch some of the guild vs guild fights (25v25). Almost all fights begin with mesmer’s veil ability. At least with SF, there is a limit on how many players it will stealth. There is no such limit on the mesmer’s veil ability.

Miiaah.5416:

Macondo.4827:

10mins ago.
Green is the Color of Will……..

Those numbers are almost identical to T2, looks like T1 might get exciting in a week or two

I think BG will make T1 comes this Friday. Based on the current score, BG needs 14 more points to get into T1.

Straegen.2938:

IMO there are two types of thieves that need to be looked at. Stacked glass canon thieves that steal/backstab on tough targets for 12k+ and grief thieves that annoy the hell out everyone (hide in keeps by CnD walls, keep waypoints locked down, destroy canons, pester players, etc).

Power and Crit Dmg should have diminishing returns at some point and this goes for all classes. No single character should be able to dish 20k of damage in 1-3 seconds. As for stealth, every time a thief stealth skill runs out they should hit the stealth cooldown. It still makes them powerful but they would no longer have long periods of stealth. They should also not be able to CnD on an inanimate object.

Inanimate object?

Like how ele/guardian/thief can block siege weapon?

If thief cannot CnD on inanimate object then ele/guardian/thief should not be able to block siege.

Deal?

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I watched your Ranger Pain Inverter 1 video. The first fight is vs a thief and you destroyed him.

So what is it? A thief can take 5 players with no problem at all? BS much? Based on your video, a single thief can barely handle a ranger which is considered a free kill for the thief. In that case, buff thief and stealth!!!

This thread is a bust. Mod please close.

Michael.3279:

Also curious as to why so many D/D builds include Evasive Arcana when it was so obviously designed for use with a staff…

Might stacking from fire combo or extra heal and condition removal from water.

I personally do not use it. I’m 0/10/20/20/20. I havent played in a while so things may changed that I am not aware of.

Michael.3279:

So it really is all about RTL then? Pages and pages of threads devoted to a build that helps you run away from a group?

If a group gets the jump on me, sure… otherwise, Teleport and perma-swiftness get me out 9 out of 10 times.

W/o RTL, D/D is trash. There I said it.

Michael.3279:

I run a 0/0/10/30/30 Staff build with mostly PVT gear/Divinity runes and a few +healing power accessories.

PvE, sPvP, WvW… I can outlast pretty much anyone/anything 1v1 as well as bringing amazing utility to a group. I’ve dueled D/D Eles and win 8/10 fights.

I fail to see where the benefit is in D/D over staff… it might just be a min/max numbers thing, but on the actual field I never see it play out that way. Ride the Lightning is pretty boss, but as far as I can tell it’s pretty much the only advantage over staff… but being that I can catch runners with static field, etc… I’m not even sure it’s a benefit other than making an awesome reference to Metallica.

Any other Staff Eles out there? What are your experiences in relation to the D/D bandwagon? Does it really just come down to winning slightly quicker than a staff Ele? Why would a group EVER choose a D/D Ele over a Staff Ele in PvP OR PvE? I’m just blown away by the massive posts about D/D Ele and seemingly non-existent post regarding Staff Eles.

Discuss!

Then 5-15 enemies show up and kitten you in the face…

The D/D wave bye to them as he/she RTL out

D/D is about mobility. Everything else is 2nd.

Edit: I read your post – this time in its entirety. Staff ele are awesome. No one is saying it sucks. Just different playstyle.

Death Henk.7143:

sostronk.8167:

Unless things have changed, there was a build you could do to get infinite stealth for a theif. I believe it involved pistol/dagger skill with other deception skills. Its on youtube, Id link it but I am at work and do go on youtube whilst at work.

People still getting beaten up because they can’t understand stealth are bad. WvW players are bad in general. Try that P/D ‘infinite’ stealth in sPvP. All the higher ranked people will laugh at you.

Would you like to come to WvW and show how much of a bad player I am on my P/D thief?

Death Henk.7143:

@OP Do you know why the higher ranked people don’t complain about Thieves? Guess what, they know what to do. You just start calling for changes (be it good or bad) while you have no clue what you are talking about. Just like you said, you never played a Thief. Start playing one for a day, maybe you can beat one if you are competent enough to understand the profession.

Calm down cowboy. He’s talking about WvW.

While D/P may not be that strong in s/tPvP, that kitten is kitten in WvW. This is basically the strongest 1v1 build for thief imo.

Harbinger.9645:

Sifu.6527:

You don’t see a problem with HS costing 1 initiative for access to 4 more sec of stealth while somewhat ignoring the need to manage init?

I could see myself thinking it was overpowered if what you were saying was true. Do you think black powder is free of initiative cost? Because HS won’t do what you propose without a stealth field.

BP is not free and you need it for the 1st HS.

However, it only cost 1 init for each 2nd and 3rd HS to stack stealth.

I would agree with you that this is not OP if you have to cast BP each time but you don’t…

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

swinsk.6410:

HS is fine rofl

I dont like clones exploding on me, can we nerf that too?

I hate getting BS and HB b warriors, lets nerf that too..

L2p!

You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…

Yea it’s so OP I can get any HS spam thief to blow their entire init pool using by using 1 evade and 1 utility. They start heart-seeker spam, evade once, shadow-step away, they come flying at you, shadow return, they come flying back and land somewhere near you with zero init. So OP man, so OP.

Other profs have other tools that can accomplish the same exact thing. L2P.

The issue isn’t about fighting HS spamming thieves. The issue is that HS is a spammable gap closer with lower intiative cost and a leap finisher while doing med-high damage.

Think about how HS is used in D/P build then come back and talk or how other classes would love to have so many leap finishers.

Yea just thought about it. It’s D/P’s access to stealth. So what? They can stack it up making build sacrifices. I still don’t see the problem.

It’s also not very often HS is all those thing you mention (Someone spam HS and on it’s third one it hits through a combo field on someone at <50% health). Yea it’s one or two when you use it but that’s the nature of a game that allows for flexibility in it’s abilities. Most abilities serve at least two purposes depending on the situation.

Initiative is part of the Thieves design and what makes the profession unique. They are meant to be able spam while at the same time dealing with resource management.

You don’t see a problem with HS costing 1 initiative for access to 4 more sec of stealth while somewhat ignoring the need to manage init?

Stiv.1820:

Sifu.6527:

swinsk.6410:

HS is fine rofl

I dont like clones exploding on me, can we nerf that too?

I hate getting BS and HB b warriors, lets nerf that too..

L2p!

You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…

Yea it’s so OP I can get any HS spam thief to blow their entire init pool using by using 1 evade and 1 utility. They start heart-seeker spam, evade once, shadow-step away, they come flying at you, shadow return, they come flying back and land somewhere near you with zero init. So OP man, so OP.

Other profs have other tools that can accomplish the same exact thing. L2P.

The issue isn’t about fighting HS spamming thieves. The issue is that HS is a spammable gap closer with lower intiative cost and a leap finisher while doing med-high damage.

Think about how HS is used in D/P build then come back and talk or how other classes would love to have so many leap finishers.

swinsk.6410:

HS is fine rofl

I dont like clones exploding on me, can we nerf that too?

I hate getting BS and HB b warriors, lets nerf that too..

L2p!

You have no idea how unbalance it is do you? Think outside the box a bit…

This skill does need an adjustment.

HS: Low cost, leap finisher, mid-high damage. I don’t mind the distance on it because thief are suppose to be mobile. But the cost is too low for what it gives in return.

They should increase the initiative cost by 1 or 2 and increase damage (not sure by how much but if they increease the cost to use it, it should do more damage).

Iohanna.4863:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ecl8d0TQGQ

Slight change to build; just mixed in a few Berserker pieces with for more lethality. I concluded that most of my survivability comes from my traits and abilities, rather than my stats.

Now I have just enough Toughness to survive surprise butt-sex, and enough lethality to deliver surprise butt-sex.

Good times fighting you. That build is hard to counter.

Narcarsis.5739:

Mrbig.8019:

Because you hit like a wet noodle, because pistol whip is countered ridicolously by armor, protection, retaliation and stability, because you’re basically building for venoms while using just the only really useful one and worthy to be shared in this burst meta, or rather the devourer one, while an ele /longbow warrior could do that as easily, while having more damage, more sustain, and a faster CD to reapply them ( pin down = 3 secs immobilize every 25 secs, instead of devourer every 36 ; magnetic gras every 12 secs instead of devourer every 36 secs, especially after last patch).

I agree for a total overhaul of the thief class, because currently there’s nothing this class can do in high end PvP aside burst, and you know it perfectly, otherwise you would be running your venom share build instead of D/P burst.

I run D/P because my role is Roamer/Damage. You’re confusing Venom Share with a damage build. It’s a support spec, stop trying to do damage and start using your unlimited immobilizes and large amount of stuns to do your actual job: Controlling their damage so that yours can land their burst.

How you think another class has more CC astounds me. Sword 2 has no cooldown, is a teleport with an immobilize, and a stun break with a condi remove. Again, stop trying to lock people up and do damage with pistol whip when you’re speccing for a support role. If you have a 5v5 you give your team 25s of immobilize and 10 seconds of stun with venoms alone.

Both D/P burst and S/P venom share is viable. You have to have the right comp for both. If you’re running around with venom share and no DPS then yes, it’s useless. Also, the thief class does not need an “overhaul”. Condition thief needs a rework, yes. Pistol whip could use a small change, yes. But the rest of the class is fine. If you can’t play it well then go to something else instead of crying for a complete change. The game will not cater to you.

I could be wrong but immoblize does not stack in duration.

I am GIG (Girl in Game). Can I post here?

So you know there’s a invul safe spot there yet you still chase and attack them? /facepalm

swinsk.6410:

I play backstab/daze build in wvw and still prefer that for wvw, but in spvp I have found that it isn’t about how much dps we burst off in seconds but how much dps we can continuously dish out while staying alive and not having to reset combat.

This is the build I came up with in the moment without any research: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqYVlUmCN3ey8E95EB3Djy0mqf4m9Mw6VB;T8AgyyuEcJ5S1liLqvMfJ+y+l7L5XLIGlMLA

I don’t use stun breakers because I am stealthed like 90% of the time. Dropping caltrops and applying bleeds with pistol.

It works out pretty well. I just wanted to start a discussion on it and see if anyone had any suggestions.

I included gear and sigils as well. Comments on all would be welcome. Even from doing the calc it noticed I might want to use undead runes instead of nightmare.

I don’t like death blossom build. I don’t find it as effective as p/d for bleeds.

P/D build is crappy for tpvp…

Can’t kill them fast enough before their teammate come.

They can contest a capture point if you’re in stealth.

What class do you like to fight the most?

For me, it is against another good thief, any spec. Nothing like a good game of cat and mouse. Usally who comes out of stealth first is at a disadvantage.

The other night, I fought this S/D thief (I was S/D, D/D spec). The fight lasted for a good 10 minute but I was constantly on my toes for the duration of the fight. We both used terrian and mobs to our advantage. These type of fights are the most fun for me. Also, it gives me a good indication of how I stand vs other thieves.

Another class I like to fight is D/D ele. I have to use every trick in the book to fight these guys but it is very rewarding when you come out on top (that’s if they want to fight and not run…).