Overall though I wish the unique utilities would have been given to other classes instead. of just repeating traps/shouts so far…
Its so they can have runes specific to skill types. See runes of the trapper and rune of the trooper for example. They may introduce a well rune per say that mesmers and necros can make use of in some builds.
Its not like Reaper has -33% movement speed, they walk just as fast as anyone else, and its not like base Necro has a bunch of extra movement effects.
Anet necro logic. Reaper won’t have conventional movement skills or speed. They reduce peoples moves speed by 66% with chills and can move 25% faster as base with traits. We move 3.8times faster than them. Inverse mobility. Such speed, much movement.
My fear is with “slow” condition. The slower your attacks are the worse it becomes. I’m not sure if it increases casting time by 50% or slows casting by 50% (aka 2x casting) but either way, the longer your cast is the harder it’s going to hurt you by far. I cringe at trying to resummon minions with their 1.5 sec cast times with slow being in the game.
I was on about move speed since you can get 25% in shroud and swiftness potentially.
The slow condition that will be one that needs to be transfered right away since cronomancers have that stuff in droves. Will be a hard melee.
Reaper will be bad at Pvp because it has no little range and can be kited. Play greatsword, and you’ll never get life force against anybody good. Play anything else and you lose the chill that your specialty is based on.
.
i believe that any fight on point reaper will be an asset but 1v1 vs any class with decent range ( ranger, mesmer and core necro, dragon hunter ) they will have issues. Like huge issues. Eating damage walking towards a target will be bad.
GS/Staff or axe horn would be the only way to get the best of both words. Also reapers generate so much lf naturally anyways that is never an issue. I see it working just super weak vs some matchups 1v1. Anything within 600 range though is far game. outside that prep to suck…and hard too.
It has no decent ranged option like normal DS so that is a thing. Suseptable to kiting.
Also most of the base class has been reworked since we know they took our feed back on board which can be seen the the leeching working on DS and the changes to blood magic. We don’t know in total what has reformed after our feedback so I’m sitting tight. Out of the core classes I expect us to get the biggest rework./changes.
The spite and, unyielding and vital ate self explanatory.
Zerker – chilling nova, soul eater/ chilling force depeding on group and then reapers onslaught and dhuumfire in soul reaping for burn damage. Max might is 750 condi damage so OK burn. Also take flame legion runes for burn duration and +7% to burned foes. 6 stacks of burn.
Valkyrie – soul reaping take death perception . reaper take chilling nova, decimate defences and reapers onslaught. No idea what rune since on scholars the precision is redundant but the % damage and ferocity isn’t. Maybe strength runes.
Based on the livestream(which i know isn’t final) the damage numbers are waaay too low. Greatsword is slower than dagger and still seems to deal less damage? If they want us to be slow and hit hard then we really need to hit hard…. So when the final numbers come out then i’ll know forsure how i feel about it.
You are comparing the wrong thing to the wrong thing. Reaper shroud auto should be compared to dagger and even then with dhuumfire it should be about even/higher.
Pvp wise GS is better cause of the pull and the execution finisher of grave digger as well as the pseudo well on nightfall. The damage is only low in the video since he is using a settler amulet.
Reapers shroud looks like it might have potential but greatsword didn’t impress. Also I’m gunna compare reaper shroud to death shroud and greatsword to the other weapons as well. We haven’t really seen greatsword in pvp yet. So I can’t say it’s better than dagger, have you?… I think our offhands are pretty kitten useful, war horn and dagger moreso. I just see greatsword being blinded, blocked , interrupted, shadow step and stability being used to counter it. But if it’s gunna truly hit hard maybe that’s enough to make it threatening anyway.
The reason you do the cross comparison is since dagger matches Rs and DS matched GS functionality wise. Try to compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.
It has better tools to actually deal with being in melee and if you know what you are doing with it all the things you mentioned mathematically are not an issue at all given the skills we have been shown.
I’m not fussed with the stats being removed from traits, I don’t even think they should compensate us and apply those lost stats to amulets, just leave them out.
There’ll be less of a power creep, less power precision and ferocity going around, meaning less damage over-all, I’m fine with that.
Honestly more worried about the new burning and poison that direct damage.
Because the current scaling is basically a lie, you take half damage while in DS, meaning vitality is effectively double what it says. You would get technically 9% more vitality scaling according to the numbers, but 18% due to half damage taken.
Oh you counted the damage reduction as a multiplier. That’s stupid. Everyone already knows about that and it should be counted as a separate effect when you crunch numbers. I literally thought you meant we was getting bumped from 0.78 to 1.38 on top of damage reduction.
But maths with and in terms of effective hp it produces the correct number. Also the reason its 60% hp with -50% damage and not 120% hp like we originally thought before a number was attached to it is due to how lf is regenerated and being % based and how damage interacts with lf over flow.
Let’s go with this. You have 167 HP giving you 100 LF, a 60% HP->LF conversion just like live. Now, with the base Soul Reaping changes, you now have 15% increased LF, for 115 LF, which means 167 HP gives you 115 LF, 115/167 = 69% of your HP is your LF pool. However, while you see 115 while in DS, whenever you get hit by direct damage you’ll take half the damage you “should”, so a hit for 100 will only take 50 LF away, making your effective LF against direct damage 230 since you’d have to take a hit of 230 to fully deplete your LF pool, which doubles your actual HP->LF scaling to 138%.
Just did my own math and got the same thing just had no idea where you were getting the number from. its also ~160% with soul reaping.
By my math having 900vit from gear would mean you would effectively have ~70khp. About 27k hp and effectively 44k LF
What? But that’s almost double the current scaling. Why? When was this announced?
I mean I’m not complaining since it means you’ll be able to have 33k HP + 45k DS for kittens and giggles if that’s the case. But I fail to see the reasoning behind it.
Because the current scaling is basically a lie, you take half damage while in DS, meaning vitality is effectively double what it says. You would get technically 9% more vitality scaling according to the numbers, but 18% due to half damage taken.
Thought the base was up by 15% then traits is another 15%. Compound effect would happen but you would only get an extra few % compared to now
9% by the numbers, 18% with how the LF actually works.
i still cant see it. can you explain it using 100 base lf as an example??
the way im seeing it lf is 60% of your hp and that gets increased by 15% base to 69% of your hp pool. 15% more from soul reaping #3 minor takes it to 79.4% of your hp converted in to your lf pool
Reaper should be a good tank if there is some small healing through DS and there is enough Protect up-time but I have concerns that there is little need for that role.
PvE bosses can be kited more easily than tanked and Necromancer’s tanking skill set is still not complete.
PvP groups are too small to need a dedicated tank.
WvW battles are too focused on mobility and cleanses for tanks to be truly effective.
No idea why you are pigeon holing reaper to be a tank…
Unless the other party has condition duration then yes you could be immune to the condition and they would see an " immune" message when trying to apply it.
Are you sure they would see the immune message? I thought that was reserved for abilities that made you fully immune, as opposed to “effectively immune”… just curious since if that happens there is going to be a lot of crying about necros and all these immune messages :P
You will indeed see the immune message. It’ll pop up even if your target isn’t 100% immune. It showed up against warriors running -96% duration.
I think its as long as its under 1/4s of a condi it wont do anything.
Based on the livestream(which i know isn’t final) the damage numbers are waaay too low. Greatsword is slower than dagger and still seems to deal less damage? If they want us to be slow and hit hard then we really need to hit hard…. So when the final numbers come out then i’ll know forsure how i feel about it.
You are comparing the wrong thing to the wrong thing. Reaper shroud auto should be compared to dagger and even then with dhuumfire it should be about even/higher.
Pvp wise GS is better cause of the pull and the execution finisher of grave digger as well as the pseudo well on nightfall. The damage is only low in the video since he is using a settler amulet.
I’d sooner go cavalier until about 2600 to 3000 armor and the rest in Valkyrie for the above stated reason of you getting crit chance off vuln and assuming you’re going soul reaper for 50% crit in shroud. Full cav armor and trinkets will only set you back about 250 power and you will get 2600ish armor and maintain the high crit dmg.
Because of skills we have for damage mitigation and it being a flat % vit is better than armour due to it scaling life force and that being generated as a . You can easily net 72 damage reduction is shroud. So the more of it you have the better. Valk would have higher effective hp than cavalier.
I could see a condi build easily stacking that, but power not so much. The only consistent one I see applying is the damage reduction on chill. I doubt people will go death as a power build so that alone knocks out 2 key traits. Even if you did go death, poison isn’t that common. And protection is very reliant on you running Spectral Armor which will be harder to do in a WvW setting now.
And lets not forget that this all relies on the stars to align. In duels and PvP this may be possible, but WvW this will never happen.
You do realise that % damage mods are a compound not additive effect. This 72% you could possible get is in a power build, no need for death magic at all.
Using 1000 as arbitrary damage
in shroud you will take -50% so 500 damage
SO
add in chilled you take 15% less so 500*0.85=425 -> ~58% damage reduction. These two are the most common.
Shrouded and with protection you would take 33% less damage so 500*0.67=335 -> ~67% damage reduction
protection and just chilled: 1000*0.85*0.67 = 570 -> 47% reduction
all together you: 1000*0.5*0.67*085=285 damage -> ~72%
This doesn’t even count putrid defence or frost armour which by the end only add another 3% each.
Not to mention as a power build you have spectral armour as a minor trait in soul reaping and its likely its going to be taken as a stun break as it is. In WvW protection is more available since other people will provide it to you all the time. This 72% is extremely attainable in both pvp and wvw. This alone and again lf generation thats is huge: shroud#1, warhorn#5, spectral armour , and chilling force. again lf is % based so the more you have the more you get % wise from a strike. An extra 9k hp and 7k life force would do more for you than having 2700 armour.
I’d rather have an pseudo invincibility considering I’m going to be full glass. No amount lifeforce is ever enough in ranked pvp as a necro.
I was unaware focus had weakness.
Try using focus in ranked. I bet you manage to pull of 4 maybe 3 or 4 times per match and I wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t land a single focus 5.
It doesnt just necro in general. Who isnt going to take the stun break shout.
Its not that hard to land. But i do see the merits of horn with more thought to it.
I probably not taking any of the shouts. I plaN on wells all day everyday.
double well spectral armour / you’re all weaklings. or some mix depending on match up. 25s stun break that brants might and causes weakness is also extremely good. It also does damage so can proc onhit/crit effects.
I’d rather have an pseudo invincibility considering I’m going to be full glass. No amount lifeforce is ever enough in ranked pvp as a necro.
I was unaware focus had weakness.
Try using focus in ranked. I bet you manage to pull of 4 maybe 3 or 4 times per match and I wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t land a single focus 5.
It doesnt just necro in general. Who isnt going to take the stun break shout.
Its not that hard to land. But i do see the merits of horn with more thought to it.
D/w greatsword zerk. Chill the and cripple All over the place with a leap.
Depending on if they do any changes to weapons you can replace horn with focus for boon removal, more chill and the spike combo combining dagger #3 , focus #4 and RS#5. rip.
I could. BUT then I’m losing my only real scaleable defense, and an unblockable interupt.
Unless they drastically reduce the cast times on focus it’s still poop for pvp as far as I’m concerned.
I would never ever allow anyone to pull that combo off on me.
Got enough life force regen only thing missing would be the aoe daze.Sustain vs damage really. Though horn would put you way OTT on lifeforce generation/ healing combined with certain reaper traits coughblightersboonandchillingforcecough.
Its actually not that hard a combo to land, just got to time it right but it would finish pretty much anyone. Especially since reaper has the tools to do so much easier than base necro atm. Weakness and chill make for a great combo at stopping evasive maneuvers.
I’d sooner go cavalier until about 2600 to 3000 armor and the rest in Valkyrie for the above stated reason of you getting crit chance off vuln and assuming you’re going soul reaper for 50% crit in shroud. Full cav armor and trinkets will only set you back about 250 power and you will get 2600ish armor and maintain the high crit dmg.
Because of skills we have for damage mitigation and it being a flat % vit is better than armour due to it scaling life force and that being generated as a . You can easily net 72 damage reduction is shroud. So the more of it you have the better. Valk would have higher effective hp than cavalier.
D/w greatsword zerk. Chill the and cripple All over the place with a leap.
Depending on if they do any changes to weapons you can replace horn with focus for boon removal, more chill and the spike combo combining dagger #3 , focus #4 and RS#5. rip.
Math wise grave digger is on single targets grave digger is stronger once one target in its reach is below 50%. For every 2 dagger auto chains, 5.6 damage coeff applied, you would cast 3 grave diggers, 6.0 damage coeff applied, and be mid cast for the 4th. At max potential for max targets thats 11.2 applied coeff vs 30 applied coeff. Its Several times stronger in fact.
I think berserker will work but i don’t think berserker and spite trait line should be mixed. Ofcourse there are probably a few who have already decided to do this but it shouldn’t come as a surprise when they suddenly get one shotted by Dragon hunter trueshot with +50% damage.
Spite : stack vulnerability and has ways to increase your damage
Zerker : all about doing damage
how do they NOT mix?
Also you would need to be on fire, crippled, tethered with justice spear, max vulnerability, standing in a symbol, your enemy to have aegis an not be chilled or yourself in reaper shroud and have no investment in armour to be hit for a 14k crit. Also means they have to have zeal, vitures and dh specced. no meditation traits = less sustain → easier to finish off.
If you are in shroud, they are chilled and you have frost armour or protection then the damage drops drastically up to a max of 75% with standard power set up down to 3.5k. I dont see anyone being one shot by that skill at all..
For pvp this trait is literally the best tier 1 major trait reaper has.
That just means the tier 1 traits suck.
Dogged March gives you similar immunity to the same conditions, without death shroud restrictions, and gives the warrior regeneration.
You do the trait is the same outside of shroud at 33% and doubled to 66% in shroud. Its actually better than dogged march. Im sure people would rather have the potential-and-more-than-likely-since-you-will-be-in-shroud-more-often-than-not extra -33% duration thatn 3s of regeneration.
I feel your underestimating the -53~86% reduction on movement impairment.
It turns a 4 second immo into a 1.3s immo on its own. Considering how much might we can get people will take runes of hoelbrak with it. That’s makes a 4s immo last half a second on yourself in shroud. You can shrug off and immo and even walk out of entangle :/ that is huge. Condition duration is no long a free stat on traits so immos will be naturally lasting shorter unless people opt for duration.In shroud NO IMMO IN THE GAME will hold you for more than a half a second
Also I don’t get why you say when you enter shroud with a staff you get nothing. The trait has no weapon restriction.
For pvp this trait is literally the best tier 1 major trait reaper has.
Damage wise its similar since the amount of power and ferocity is the same.
It’s just the difference between more reliable high damage and not taking decimate defences and taking chilling force or soul ester or decimate defences 9k HP and 7k life force.
Just a note reapers lf generationis huge and since its % based the more you have the easier it’s gained.
Tl;dr
More reliable damage and different traits vs decimate defences 9k HP and 7k life force.
the reason why you want to take staff/gs with celestial is, when you’re not in shroud you want to have something with what you can 1. chill 2. control 3. still deal damage and build life force. thats why gs is perfect.
i said it is a power/hybrid weapon, so more of a power than hybrid but more of a hybrid than for example dagger (if that makes sense?).
Dagger focus can do the same thing. Just have to see and feel exactly how gs plays out. Until we get our hands on it we wont really know.
In all honesty the GS is a power weapon and thats it. It has poison to help attrition. It cant stack it fast enough to be considered a hybrid weapon. Its essentially the guardian great sword. It maps directly across. Auto > damage > utility > area denial > control.
Staff actually gets a boost on a reaper.
the poison on gs5 and shroud2 is extremely viable for a celestial build because you won’t have to run doom sigil and other celestial classes can’t outsustain you, that’s why it is perfect for a celestial build, the best mix for defense and offense. you can look at ele, you have burn, few bleeds and poison and it is a very good celestial class. gs/staff has a similar amount of that.
My point was that GS isnt a hybrid weapon because it has only 1 condition. Other than that it is a pure power weapon and an essential copy of guard GS, again a power weapon.
Not only that but because of how the build would play, mostly in shroud for dhuumfire and might stacking, GS isnt essential. You can take a different mainhand/offhand combo and still do essentially the same thing.
You can trait to make chill deal condition damage. That would make it very much a hybrid weapon, though I can’t help but feel like condi/hybrid builds with this are going to be rather gimmicky. It depends on how much damage chill ends up doing.
Then you cant take blighters boon for sustain and its the same as saying guards GS is condi cause of passive burn. Also only way so spread enough chill would be to take chilling dark due to nightfall synergy for aoe chill damage.
Every zerker build has access to the same poison you mentioned, so the difference is really just Dhuumfire and that is just no where near the extra direct damage you’d get with a power amulet and Deathly Perception.
Exactly this like i stated before, a pure build would so so much more damage that it would be a better fighter. Especially as as soon as someone is below 50% hp they are essentially dead to a zerker reaper.
4~8k Gravedigger, downed body cleave/res denial
6~11k Soul Spirals 100% crit chance
4~10k Executioners Scythe 100% crit chance
2~3k ticks on Nightfall, can drop into shroud for 100% crit followed by #4 for epic leech.
Unless bloodmagic is epic now and healing power benefits is greatly.
In all honesty the GS is a power weapon and thats it. It has poison to help attrition. It cant stack it fast enough to be considered a hybrid weapon. Its essentially the guardian great sword. It maps directly across. Auto > damage > utility > area denial > control.
Staff actually gets a boost on a reaper.
the poison on gs5 and shroud2 is extremely viable for a celestial build because you won’t have to run doom sigil and other celestial classes can’t outsustain you, that’s why it is perfect for a celestial build, the best mix for defense and offense. you can look at ele, you have burn, few bleeds and poison and it is a very good celestial class. gs/staff has a similar amount of that.
My point was that GS isnt a hybrid weapon because it has only 1 condition. Other than that it is a pure power weapon and an essential copy of guard GS, again a power weapon.
Not only that but because of how the build would play, mostly in shroud for dhuumfire and might stacking, GS isnt essential. You can take a different mainhand/offhand combo and still do essentially the same thing.
You know I remember it being 78% now that you mention it, because I think it came up on the podcast; it would just be another 10% damage reduction from some source to bring it to 78.
75% comes from:
Cold Shoulder
Protection
Innate DS Reduction
Putrid Defense
In all honesty the GS is a power weapon and thats it. It has poison to help attrition. It cant stack it fast enough to be considered a hybrid weapon. Its essentially the guardian great sword. It maps directly across. Auto > damage > utility > area denial > control.
Unless the other party has condition duration then yes you could be immune to the condition and they would see an " immune" message when trying to apply it.
I wouldnt count out zerker. Less reliance on vulnerability and RS for crit chance means you can land some heavy grave diggers and night fall will do decent ticks. Around 5~9k grave diggers and 2~3k nightfall ticks without max might or vulnerability. It goes higher.
Also with just death precption you hit 100% crit chance in RS meaning your #4 will do like 6~11k damage and exe strike will go anywhere from 4~10k.
Valk will have similar numbers but in RS only. Soliders are lower still and again in RS only. Plus you cant take chilling force with either of these since you need decimate defences for extra crit so less healing potential from blighters boon.
Edit : This makes perfect sence since we have so many things that turn into swiftness already. This changed to make it more like well of power actually makes the skill stronger. Gaining resistance means it will save you from reapplication of condition burst and ensure your survival better than the skill does now.
I don’t thnk some of you understand what Anet has done with the reaper. As it stands now, with any amulet and rune you can have up to 68% damage reduction (excluding weakness) and keep it that way for quite a long time, almost permanent.
75% if you have all reductions and are in DS w/ protection, so yeah pretty heavy possible reduction.
Its almost certain to be berserker. The chill sigils arent worth getting for PvE. So same sigils as before (force, night, slaying etc). Assassins is going to fall out thanks to decimate defences and maybe even just the stat point changes.
For solo stuff you might want strength runes. In groups where might isnt an issue then scholar runes will still be best.
Id argue force/frailty for pve. Other than that i agree.
I would say frailty would be a nad choice with the amount of vuln you would put out using just unyielding blast and death shiver.
It might be, but bosses suffer reduced duration for vulnerability correct? So every 3 seconds you apply 5 seconds of vulnerability, 3 stacks. Unyeilding blast does 2 stacks, so essentially 4 stacks every two-ish seconds (not counting the trait reduction).
The stacks from death shiver would stack up to 6 stacks max on their own. Unyeilding, worst case, would be 8 ish stacks. Maybe 10. Thats still only 14-16 stacks? I think there is room for some gains.
You can get new max stacks yourself even with the -50% duration and you owuldnt be the only one stacking vuln since lots of skills do it. . So even though it does seem like a good idea it gets out shined by other sigils due to the fact you can put out so much vuln as it is.
Its almost certain to be berserker. The chill sigils arent worth getting for PvE. So same sigils as before (force, night, slaying etc). Assassins is going to fall out thanks to decimate defences and maybe even just the stat point changes.
For solo stuff you might want strength runes. In groups where might isnt an issue then scholar runes will still be best.
Id argue force/frailty for pve. Other than that i agree.
I would say frailty would be a nad choice with the amount of vuln you would put out using just unyielding blast and death shiver.
Second, this skill only hits at the end of the leap
In the PoI you see the spinny traveling part of the necrocopter do a whole bunch of small hits before the bigger hit.
Good to know, but I still really doubt it will be everyone hit in between.
This was exactly my point. Unless its just on the blast then it has to much potential. One necro stripping an entire zerg of 2 boons would be too good.
