You got reapers might thats cool but you missed siphoned power which looks to grant 2 stacks while having a 2s internal cooldown ( watch the video ). Also look at the trait chilling force….everytime you strike a chilled foe you gain might for 5s. With all the multi hit skills like RS #4 and GS #3.
Also in the video he chills two trolls and then whirls and maxes out at 25 stacks easily and it keeps refreshing. From some random math ive done it can actually mean you can gain around 2~10k hp from it and maybe around 15~60% life force.
Its actually perfectly fine as it is.
With blighters boon chilling force is actually better than soul eater. Also chilling nova may be better since you would spread chill faster and thus this would be a wvw combo.
Sigil of ice procs and you crit procing chilling nova 3 times chilling potentially loads of people enough for your while to finish. all 55 hits would grant might. All might would proc blighters boon. potentially healing yourself over 10k to your actuall health while massing up your own life force so your shroud doesnt drop either.
Only a few mobility skills arent effected by movement impairing conditions so making someone burn cooldowns on condi removal or escapes for something we apply just by doing every day things is a win.
Also in the guard video the guard has base hp meaning the ammy isued has damage stats, probably a new zerker ammy without vit since his crits are 200%. In ours he has 30k hp only meaning settlers ammy. The damage on our GS is higher than on their bow if it was the same amulet. We also self stack might easier so it all adds up
Still trying to figure out why Axe Training
I pray that this got the blood magic treatment and was reworked after our feedback.
@Darwec.
Did some rough timing and the full auto chain is about 2.5s. If he wasnt using the trait it would drop to around the same as the dagger auto chain but have 0.4 less damage coeff. It should balance if the burn stacks are over 700~1k damage
If he is already using the trait and its 2.5 anyways then the whole chain is 2.9s which is very slow overall.
@ Spoj i lierally just did the same thing and came out with the same numbers pretty much except nightfall does 4 hits so its 2.8 pretty much. Seems dagger should still be the best 1v1 weapon for pve but RS and great sword would be good for trash and packs of stuff. Especially when one gets low since grave digger spam would be best dps then.
For pvp though grave digger will be huge if you can land it since you will be hitting people for between 4~6k or higher if they are below 20% and have vuln stacks. Especially you can stop people ressing since you can just repeat spam it on downed people. If you have Soul eater trait nightfall geave digger spam will make ressing almost impossible since GD makes it cool faster so you can keep placing it down.
i never though of dhuumfire instead. you should be able to keep like 4 stacks for extra dps. Still 100% crit due to decimate defenses. Also could take kitten rs might instead because unyielding blast+deathly shiver would stack max vuln as it is. 750 condi damage from max might, 4 stacks of burn will do huge amounts of extra dps.
i never though of dhuumfire instead. you should be able to keep like 4 stacks for extra dps. Still 100% crit due to decimate defenses. Also could take kitten rs might instead because unyielding blast+deathly shiver would stack max vuln as it is. 750 condi damage from max might, 4 stacks of burn will do huge amounts of extra dps.
15s CD on withdraw, instantly cleanses all that chill.
The they just shadow step off and 5 seconds later are at another point.
Or they just blind chain you since all the attacks are slow as hell.
Nightfall counters blind by being aoe and putting your own blind down. Also GS #3 and RS#4 have so many hits blind wont effect them at all. Throw in a well or horn #5 and you are immune.
True they can do that but means they wasted time trying to take the point instead of being somewhere more useful. Sure they could get there fast enough but in the 10~20s they have been attempting to fight you they would have done more else where or the fight is lost by the time they arrive late. Also means they have use shadowstep or other cooldowns to drop the easily reapplied chill an dont have them for the next fight they are going to starting at a natural disadvantage and with less options.
Good luck trying to put down a competent thief without any proper ranged abilities or good mobility.
Only a few of those would be a real issue and the fact is still there that to do any real damage they have to get in our face. When they do they have to use cooldowns to get out because of all the chill. We also have better cleave so they cant sneak up on us a much. Reapers will fair much better. Especially a we can counter bask venom and head shot stpam with loads of stab.
You’re all forgetting the removal of attributes from trait lines and adding more of them on gear (amulets in SPvP) will in turn buff the celestial amulet more than the others, but either way, going with cavalier or valk still means a tanky necro with lots of crit chance.
Thought even with the redistribution they were nerfing it?
That build will replace the current power necro. Literally in all aspects its an improvement.
Hell no. It has no ranged option at all. I expect I will be getting kited to death a lot. I just don’t care. Maybe I’ll drop the Chilling Novas for Relentless Pursuit depending on how badly I get kited and how salty I’ll feel about it.
True but your sticking potential is higher. Especially with relentless pursuit, your own chills, leaps and the pull. Plus 25% move speed in shroud. You will walk into a fight and prevent people from leaving unless they burn cooldowns and anyone under 50% is essentially dead anyways. Either grave digger spam or your 30s aoe backstab with 100% crit chance.
If we’re talking SPvP here you won’t need to even go with a zerker or assassin amulet, because of 2 massive crit traits. Even with one of them, getting a celestial amulet will probably be better overall.
Valk or cavalier would be better if you are going that way but then you would lose your might stacking and lf from chilling force. Would also have to drop either reapers might or chill of death for the respective bitter chill or deathly shiver to get enough vuln all the time to crit enough. tanky as though with still very high damage.
i say we will hair better since RS #3 will stop the headshot spam cutting into us. SInce it is also pulsing bountiful theft is less and issue. Also You have a way to cleave in RS so you can check when they are near and still do damage through stealth.
Take chilling dark. Use nightfall or well of darkness. Stack stupid chill amounts due to pulsing blind. Possibly cover with vulnerability from of of the many source we have ( bitter chill every time blind procs chill, deathly shiver ). Enter RS, use #2 to corrupt boons and get poison. Spam 1 to stack burn.
????
Profit??
You forgot the new trait that gives us vulnerability on chill in Spite.
I will be running something like this
Zerk stats
GS + Dagger/Warhorn
Consume Conds/Well of Suffering/Well of Corruption/“Nothing Can Save You!”/“Chilled To The Bone”
That build will replace the current power necro. Literally in all aspects its an improvement. You will have insane might ALL THE TIME and never be short of lifeforce due to the same trait.
you forgot terrify will always chill due to master minor trait.
Even so that’s not much chill up time in shroud.
Even with that & the number 5 your looking at around 1/5-1/4 up time.
After looking at the evidence put forward by Xaylin, The only suggestion I make is changing deaths charge so that it applies 3 seconds of chill & poison in a small AOE when it ends.
That ought to be sufficient to help keep enemies in melee range.
You also forget that you can spin to win through the cold field for even more chill.
Ya but wouldn’t you rather have a short duration chill on demand with a short CD them something on a long CD that you have to combo through ?
Cant you take chilling dark then drop the well or nightfall to get your chills. They are both persistent skills so fire ad eneter RS to stack burns on auto attack.
Take chilling dark. Use nightfall or well of darkness. Stack stupid chill amounts due to pulsing blind. Possibly cover with vulnerability from of of the many source we have ( bitter chill every time blind procs chill, deathly shiver ). Enter RS, use #2 to corrupt boons and get poison. Spam 1 to stack burn.
????
Profit??
you forgot terrify will always chill due to master minor trait.
Even so that’s not much chill up time in shroud.
Even with that & the number 5 your looking at around 1/5-1/4 up time.
After looking at the evidence put forward by Xaylin, The only suggestion I make is changing deaths charge so that it applies 3 seconds of chill & poison in a small AOE when it ends.
That ought to be sufficient to help keep enemies in melee range.
You also forget that you can spin to win through the cold field for even more chill.
Or fire for more burn, or poison for more of that, or chaos for confusion.
Sigil of ice will be a thing for sure. 20~40% chill uptime regardless of anything else.
I am just worried what can condi necro get out of new reaper ds form. And we loose 1 minor trait because of this.
Which one?
Instead of usefull minor we get a must new reaper ds even if its weaker version of current ds (for condi necros).
How is it weaker?
He means loss of torment…And forgets that you can stack Dhuumfire like a boss with the new AA. Als chill can do damage, and the Fear is AE. Also cold field and whirl, and with set-up poison field and whirl…and poison will stack…
With condi damage burn does around 200 damage a stack ( seen from DH ready up ), poison does 68 damage a stack and chill doing 300ish over 50% and 600ish under ( seen when he is fighting the grawl ). Terror doing around 1k per tick since it will have best damage due to chill. Most of these are with no condi damage but with condi damage It will be a whole lot higher. This also doesnt count anything you corrupt from a boon every 6s due to skill #2.
Oh and none of this counts our insane ability to stack might for another 5~750 condi damage.
Its actually a 6 seconds cd on deaths charge (without vital persistance).^^
In the stream you can see the 4 % LF degeneration so we can be sure that the base cd is indeed 6 seconds.
I think you mean Path of Midnight. At least thats the current trait reducing DS-cd’s.
The two get combined into one trait.
Also more often than not in most builds you will be able to stack might lik crazy. Wither through chilling force or reapers might and siphoned power.
If you watch the video no idea what gear set he is using but you can see the chill tick for 647 and 725 with 9 stacks of might. below 50% hp so its not weak either.
The point is the potential is there. Even with 1 target it will still heal you for around 1.2k and do 1.2k damage. making a 2.4k hp swing is pretty big for just leeching.
Where the hell are you getting those numbers from. The base life siphon is 49 healing. With Bloodthirst its 59. With Healing Power you’re looking at maybe 70. Vampiric is even lower. So you’d get about 420 from the skill, another 200 from Vampiric trait. And if we assume you could somehow get your hands on some Zealot gear in PvP to make use of Vampiric Precision you’re looking at around 800, 900 tops.
Maybe closer to 1k actually i just assumed a little extra due to the possibility of the vamp aura that further continues to increase of our siphon. Its still a lot for 1 skill.
Those numbers were if you could somehow get Zealot stats. Without being able to trigger Vampiric Precision you’d only get 650~
And the new aura isn’t a part of the skill.
You dont need them, just blood thirst. Just vampiric, bloodthirst and vamp precision without any healing power at all is still 150+ a hit you just need to crit. Without any crits yeah would be 600.
The point is the potential is there. Even with 1 target it will still heal you for around 1.2k and do 1.2k damage. making a 2.4k hp swing is pretty big for just leeching.
Where the hell are you getting those numbers from. The base life siphon is 49 healing. With Bloodthirst its 59. With Healing Power you’re looking at maybe 70. Vampiric is even lower. So you’d get about 420 from the skill, another 200 from Vampiric trait. And if we assume you could somehow get your hands on some Zealot gear in PvP to make use of Vampiric Precision you’re looking at around 800, 900 tops.
Maybe closer to 1k actually i just assumed a little extra due to the possibility of the vamp aura that further continues to increase of our siphon. Its still a lot for 1 skill.
Dhuumfire, Reapers might and a sigil of ice with a bit of condi duration would be fine. Since you can have chill do damage and same with fear and fear cause chill. You will gain stacks of poison every time you use #2 and corrupt 2 boons.. #3 will chill and hear making terror synergize with itself damage wise, #1 will stack AOE burn and might, he had 16 stacks in vid just from autoing, making your conditions do even more damage as well as applying 2~4s of chill every 10s.
It hits 6 times with a target cap of 3 and a range of 170. You will rarely be able to hit 3 people standing that close to each other in PvP unless they’re all ressing someone. Maybe in WvW you’ll be able to hit 3 people standing on top of each other reliably but who the kitten gives a kitten about WvW.
The point is the potential is there. Even with 1 target it will still heal you for around 1.2k and do 1.2k damage. making a 2.4k hp swing is pretty big for just leeching.
with its better target limit and #3 skill as well GS wont be far behind at all. Especially if you take the skill that allows it to also leach extra hp.
Your soul is mine is actually great immo. Seeing as you can use it very sharpish compared to consume conditions. Not only that it will heal you for 3k and anywhere from 4 to 20% life force. That can be used to enter shroud and use the #4 skill with leech traits for a further 2-10k heal because it can hit a Max of 55 times.
Also I love the noon hate we have with the leap, path of corruption the shout and our existing skills such as axe #3 new spiteful spirit and corrupt boon.
The 3 skill hits 18 times. Vampiric, GS siphon, vampiric precision all will proc and the new siphon aura.
That’s between 1-3k heal on a 10 s cool down as well as all the extra damage. Also traits from weapons should carry over onto RS as they do now with axe training and death shroud. Means RS #4 can do a Max of 55 hits. So it does work out as worth it. Besides RS #1 is almost as fast as the dagger auto but hits mor targets so heels are the same/ better.
First off, I don’t want it to make it seem like I don’t appreciate the changes because I actually do. They fix a lot of issues that we have in PVE setting. That’s it. It doesn’t really do much in a PvP/WvW setting.
So based on the POI, I still believe necromancers are going to be overwhelmed in unbalanced fights (2v1, 3v1, 3v2, etc).
So now, in PvE, you can do a ton of damage, tank enemies, and even help allies by giving them life siphon. AWESOME! Cool….I guess. But that doesn’t help me out when I’m facing actual players.
Funny, I was thinking the exact opposite. The changes seem very interesting for spvp and wvw (especially roaming small scale or plain zvz aoe damage) and address very few of the necros problems in pve.
Necro already does a TON OF DAMAGE. Guess what they were and still are lacking? Group support and utility. Necro’s aren’t geting shunned by groups due to lacking damage(at least not groups of experianced players). They get shunned because they bring nothing to the table besides damage, which others bring as well along with utility and support.
Why should we support allies directly like that? That’s never been the necro (in GW2, anyway.) It seems to me, that, ideally, we’d be the ones charging in, maybe with a warrior or guard buddy, and having a back line of support/ranged dps. In that scenario, yeah, we’re being “carried” in terms of boons. But, we’re also drawing a ton of aggro and relieving pressure on squishier allies. I fail to see how that’s a significant problem.
It’s all about a different mindset. I know I don’t want necros to be the same as everyone else in terms of support. Some incidental support abilities wouldn’t be bad, but that is kind of a bad focus for a death themed class.
Do that successfully in fractals 40+ and I’ll applaud you. Mob damage will slice you down faster than your third GS autoattack will go through.
My guardian (full ascended zerker) might take 2-3 hits from trash before he goes belly up. Won’t be very different for a light armor class.
But you might put on tanky gear… -> have fun finding a group in zerker meta.
Reapers done need perc. always 50% crit in reaper form, death perception, and 50% crit with easy 25 stacks of vuln. 100% with both. As long as you have power and ferocity you are good..
I mean, can you IMAGINE what a reaper could do with Well of Suffering + Well of Darkness + Nightfall + Reaper’s Grasp + Chilled to the Bone + Soul Spiral + Executioner’s Scythe? The order’d need work, but that’s a lot of stuff for a potentially terrifying AoE Combo, without even getting into preexisting weapon sets.
In a power build being below 50% health vs a reaper would be an instant GG. Beauty of it is from the video you can move in grave digger like guards can in while just slower so with chill you can land 2. . Exe scyth followed by double gravedigger will finish anyone off. Grave digger/ exe scyth, CoD, air and fire proc..RIP. Not to mention all the might you have from attacking someone chilled..
Reaper will be tanky. Siphons working in DS is huge especially if you are a tank. With the new traits you will have perma chill, meaning every hit gains you might, and if you have spite more might when they are below 50% . You can have anywhere from 4~max might depending on chill and targets.
Attacking in reaper shroud will keep you in reaper shroud, 2 adds poison which can have -10% damage along with -15% damage from chill and possible -33% from protection and -10% from frost armour if you have it. Also you can siphon in it. There is potential to have 100% crit in DS and the #4 skill hits 11 times per target. 1.1k heal per target from vampiric and vamp precision, not counting any new siphon aura, gs siphon or bloodthirst. Also if you take it every time you grant yourself might you will get an extra 133 hp. At best on 3 targets in RS you will heal yourself for just under 10k with a single skill.
1v1 as it is now you can essentially be unkillable. same pretty much up to 3 targets in which it will take a long time to kill you. long enough for support ot your team to cap other points in pvp. This is huge.
Also skills that render damage to 0 will have a lesser effect on us since siphon damage will still happen afaik.
Exactly. The longer the fight goes the bigger advantage you get. The only problem I see is blinds from thief which every melee spec can’t deal with easily. The constant poison might vuln and chill in aoe form is ridiculous. It’s not about disengaging it’d about keeping your ene.y where they are while your team comes to you. People are not going to 1v1 reapers easily and burst g tank ones down is going to be very difficult. I understand exactly what you’re saying g but if you look at the traits, reaper is the new Guardian
Also in reaper shroud use infusing terror with the cd on RS/DS skills will mean you will have almost perma 2/3 stacks of stability in RS meaning youre harder to CC. Engaging a reaper will be a choice of low long do you want to commit to a fight and if you have time since with all the easy chill, the grabs avaliable ( deathly and reapers grasp ) , stab access in shroud, ease of staying in shroud, leaps, stuns and siphons, we will stick to people like glue unless they use cooldowns to escape and we will sustain like beasts.
Also " Nothing can save you " will counter gear shield, shield stance and shelter.
Reaper will be tanky. Siphons working in DS is huge especially if you are a tank. With the new traits you will have perma chill, meaning every hit gains you might, and if you have spite more might when they are below 50% . You can have anywhere from 4~max might depending on chill and targets.
Attacking in reaper shroud will keep you in reaper shroud, 2 adds poison which can have -10% damage along with -15% damage from chill and possible -33% from protection and -10% from frost armour if you have it. Also you can siphon in it. There is potential to have 100% crit in DS and the #4 skill hits 11 times per target. 1.1k heal per target from vampiric and vamp precision, not counting any new siphon aura, gs siphon or bloodthirst. Also if you take it every time you grant yourself might you will get an extra 133 hp. At best on 3 targets in RS you will heal yourself for just under 10k with a single skill.
1v1 as it is now you can essentially be unkillable. same pretty much up to 3 targets in which it will take a long time to kill you. long enough for support ot your team to cap other points in pvp. This is huge.
Also skills that render damage to 0 will have a lesser effect on us since siphon damage will still happen afaik.
The main weakness is that you actually need to be whacking away at something in order to keep your sustain up, unlike warrior who has a perma regen with signet and guardian, who has multiple ways of healing up (dodge roll, staff 4, AH, etc.).
That makes you very susceptible to kiting, and with only 1 dash found in the shroud skill, you still need to pick your fights carefully.
True but in zvz you can essentially fronline and be the last man standing. Hitting in RS keeps you in RS, you can poison and chill in RS for extra damage reduction. Unless its changed or you get focused you can RS #1 forever and heal up your main pool then drop…obviously last more than 10s then do the same again.
Also can see spectral grasp getting a lot of use here in 1v1s since its delayed you can chain it with grave digger or DS #5 to finish someone off. From the vid you can move, though super slow, when casting grave digger. With that much chill people move so slow as long as they are below 50% you will get them twice with it with the 100% reduction. Seems as soon as someone is below 50% health and we are close its game over…
It seems 000666 can be used for frontline WvW, with siphon via crit and GS + Blighter’s Boon as your main sustain.
Spin2win would be a 2.5k heal with vampiric minor. With vamp precision and 100% deathshroud crit chance….another 2.5k. More if the GS siphon traits works in RS.
The gs #3 could also heal for a max of 2.7k frim siphons alone and the best thing is all of this is extra damage you are putting out as well and doesnt count the new vamp aura thats apparently a thing or blighters boon….you will never die.
Imagine full toughtness, 30k health, 24k Life force. About to die? sit in RS and just receive boons, attack and you will be almost full when you come out.
Putrid Defense – 10% less damage from poisoned foes
Trait that decreased dmg of chilled foes – 15% (not final)
Protection – 33%
Frost Armor (RS #5 + #2) – 10%
Holy Moly.
death shroud has an innate 50% damage reduction as well. you should take like 22% of the damage you usually would with it all stacked. 10k backstab doing 2.2k….loool
