Guild Wars 2

I think people are looking at only half the chill skill. No one ever mentions the skill cooldown half of the condtion.

its like people forgot chill triples skill cooldown.

Bhawb.7408:

It would be a pretty big change for them to do. You’re basically asking them to completely re-do every movement skill that is affected by these things, which is a lot to do. I think its better for the game’s overall balance if they make this change and then follow up with better balance afterwards, such as giving Necromancers more/reliable/better pulls.

Spectral grasp/Reapers grasp:
Remove stability and pull your target(s) to your location. Apply XYZ affect.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sykper.6583:

Another thing I forgot to mention was Taunt, which will be another condition to be coming out of the woodwork. The same arguments apply to taunt like they did slow, we don’t know how prevalent or how many professions have it, but if it is out there, it can ruin a disengage outright. We will have to see..

Taunt is not a condition. Seriously, why do people keep saying this? It’s a control effect like Stun or Daze. Condition duration will have zero effect on it and Runes of the Trooper cannot help you out of it.

Is it like stun or daze, or is it like fear? Fear is a condition but also a control effect. Since taunt is essentially the same thing it would be weird for it to be just a control effect and not double as a condition as well like fear does.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Sigmoid.7082:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Eh true, just reliance on one damaging condition can be problematic when you account for all the condition cleanses in game & the fact that resistance is being added.

Less of an issue due to guards ability to reapply burning constantly. No amount of clense will be able to avoid the continuous burn pressure if specced for it.

Re-apply small stacks. You only see respectable damage when you hit the high stacks and those get cleansed far too easily and soon before that could happen.

Define respectable. A stack without might on a condi guard will do over 500damage.
The duration is extremely short, like 1~4s but the application speed is high. doesn’t matter if they get cleansed they will be replaced quickly. like i said if you are specced for it no reason you shouldnt be able to keep up 3+ stacks of burn even after they get removed. thats 1.5k+ damage a tick. No matter what happens its going to be higher damage than now by a mile!

Daniel Handler.4816:

The main reason this won’t happen is that we know ele is getting sword. It is unlikely two Elite Specs get the same weapon.

Ele may also get axe since a lot of their skills say chop and there is only 1 melee axe in the game so would be ncie to see another.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Eh true, just reliance on one damaging condition can be problematic when you account for all the condition cleanses in game & the fact that resistance is being added.

Less of an issue due to guards ability to reapply burning constantly. No amount of clense will be able to avoid the continuous burn pressure if specced for it.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Depends on how well burning actually ends up scaling.

Unlike the other classes we still rely on one damaging condition.

So it’s doubtful that pure burning/vuln guard will ever work, but for a hybrid it will be nice.

You can see a few things from the dragon hunter video. Burning doing base 150 a stack, with a carrion amulet and the +33% trait it doing just over 400 a stack and when the mobs trigger the +25% vuln trap it doing over 500 a stack.

I reckon if built for it even with the one condition the damage that would be output would be considerable.

It’s a great video and very skilled. all I could think of though is feline grace and shortbow #3 are too strong.

Great to see someone bring s/p some love though. Keep at it

We now something is going to happen to them because they don’t want a class to have a specific advantage based on race and if it stays as it currently is every necromancer will be human due to reaper of grenth.

E3Drinking game:
Take a shot every time you hear :

• Soon
• When its ready
• Numbers aren’t final yet

Well you know what. How about we all just wait till Monday.

Well necros are supposed to be good at manipulating conditions so having the longest duration out of everyone does make some sort of sense.

Saiyan.1704:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yeah, but Necro, as previewed thus far, has no access to Slow (outside of presumably corrupting Quickness), making it a moot point to talk about how they can use it.

The Devs are stress testing these items as we speak and are currently making what ever balance changes they feel is necessary. For the greater good. (see meme)

inc rage from everyone on every class on monday.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yeah, but Necro, as previewed thus far, has no access to Slow (outside of presumably corrupting Quickness), making it a moot point to talk about how they can use it.

Think its just more of a general case about class mechanics rather than necros in general. Im just interested to to see how its going to work now.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigmoid.7082:

@Drarnor
Im not to sure on that. In the chrono video the Gristleback that gets slowed does everything in slow motion including movement. It may also turn out that slow and quickness are the things that effect leap speed now.

i.e you still move 1200 units with rush but instead of the normal 2s cast it takes 1.3s with quickness or 3s with slow to move that same 1200 units of distance. It would explain why movement conditions dont affect leaps not because of the changes to slow and quickness correctly having an effect on cast speed.

I didn’t see the Gristleback actually moving that much in the video. The Chronomancer kited a lot, but the mob just turned around since it’s a ranged foe.

It preforms the actions slower. The leaps and skills are actions are hence why i think they will be moving slower when doing a movement skill. We will have to see but i feel that is the most likely way its going to work.

Yes, that’s the point. The 600 range leap needs to be 900 range. It has a full 1 second cast, that isn’t much faster than walking with swiftness.

It has relative speed to all other leaps in the game. Rush and RtL move 1200 units in 2s and this moves 600 units in 1s. Its exactly the same 600u/s as those other skills. It would be to far at 900 range and it doesnt auto aim, going that far in a straight line would be annoying and make the last blast on which poison and path of corruption proc on hard to hit.

@Drarnor
Im not to sure on that. In the chrono video the Gristleback that gets slowed does everything in slow motion including movement. It may also turn out that slow and quickness are the things that effect leap speed now.

i.e you still move 1200 units with rush but instead of the normal 2s cast it takes 1.3s with quickness or 3s with slow to move that same 1200 units of distance. It would explain why movement conditions dont affect leaps not because of the changes to slow and quickness correctly having an effect on cast speed.

I would assume it stacks in some way since parts of the line would be redundant. Example being hemophilia having 20% bleed duration.

Saiyan.1704:

Sigmoid.7082:

There are no rules to it because, playstyles.

design=/= playstyle.

just cause something can be used to do something outside its intended design doesnt mean it still doesnt have rules and restrictions around what its intended use is supposed to be.

Judge’s Intervention requires a target to teleport.
Like many other skills, Hearseeker does not require a target to be used. If they specifically designed it to be a certain way, they would have made it so.

Who are you to say otherwise?

Let me use my Focus #5 to block three attacks instead of teleporting its burst effect. Because you said so.

Focus #5 is actually a bad example since its clearly designed to do both. Again “just cause something can be used to do something outside its intended design doesnt mean it still doesnt have rules and restrictions around what its intended use is supposed to be.” I see no issue with skills having downsides depending on what their intended use is. Ride the lightning is a very specific example of this.

There is no need to be sarcastic because my opinion is different from yours.

There are no rules to it because, playstyles.

design=/= playstyles.
just cause something can be used to do something outside its intended design doesnt mean it still doesnt have rules and restrictions around what its intended use is supposed to be.

Im going to watch the chronomancer vid in super slow mo to get a glimps of how slow works and post back.

Edit:
They seem to just effect the animation so distance traveled should be the same just the speed is different. This explains some stuff with the changes since its a mechanic change due to normalization for these two things.

Sigmoid.7082:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Lord Kuru.3685:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

Here we go again.

When a game does balance updates only every six months and does not player test those updates, every single update is super high stakes. Six months of broken gameplay is a very long time.

Players have no choice but to speak out on their predictions.

In past updates they typically didn’t completely change the trait system and will soon add a new soft CC. Normally I would agree with you, but in this case we have no idea how slow will affect melee characters.

Slow won’t affect melee any worse than anyone else. It increases cast time of skills, it doesn’t hinder your ability to move.

I was thinking about this on my way home from work. Slow and quickness change the cast time of a skill by -+50%. For example if you cast rush with haste will you travel 1200 distance in 1.3s or only travel 923 distance. Same with slow. Will you travel 1200 distance in 3s or travel 1800 distance.

I think the changes may have been for this as well. Means their is a difference between types of movement. You will have shadow steps, teleports, running and skills that move you.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Lord Kuru.3685:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

Here we go again.

When a game does balance updates only every six months and does not player test those updates, every single update is super high stakes. Six months of broken gameplay is a very long time.

Players have no choice but to speak out on their predictions.

In past updates they typically didn’t completely change the trait system and will soon add a new soft CC. Normally I would agree with you, but in this case we have no idea how slow will affect melee characters.

Slow won’t affect melee any worse than anyone else. It increases cast time of skills, it doesn’t hinder your ability to move.

I was thinking about this on my way home from work. Slow and quickness change the cast time of a skill by -+50%. For example if you cast rush with haste will you travel 1200 distance in 1.3s or only travel 923 distance. Same with slow. Will you travel 1200 distance in 3s or travel 1800 distance.

Saiyan.1704:

Should a disengagment skills not disengage?

Depends on if the skill is designed to engage from a distance and used to disengage or if its built to be used to disengage.

Regardless of what is done a reaper will manage to chill you. Sure it wont effect leaps but it depends on situation and movement speed is relative anyways. It still wont take you long to catch up to someone regardless of if they dash now because their dashes, and all dashes in the game, are their fixed range.

Jekkt.6045:

thanks for the clarification still not too bad i guess^^
so all that’s left of a 2s immob is 0.28s. not sure how the game handles this atm… i know some effects used to get round up to the next full second but afaik this changed with a patch that addressed stuns and condis.

Aldo bear in mind condition duration is no longer a free stat so conditions as a while will be lasting shorter. Means traits such as dogged march, geromancers freedom etc will be note effective and not get nullified completely right off the bat by trait line +30% duration.

Cynz.9437:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Cynz.9437:

Shadow.1345:

Personally I’m gonna wait and see how it plays out before I jump to the OMFGUSUCKANET reaction because some things got changed.

Vulnerability will make you vulnerable to conditions too, awesome. Constantly I see people complaining about how condi builds are worthless. Alright they did some tweaking to conditions and suddenly it’s OMFGCONDISR2OP!!!

- that is why i said conerns and i did state that numbers are not out yet so it is all assumptions atm; i can leave my feedback however in hopes that Anet will tweak numbers with some common sense before patch goes live
- where did i say OMGUSUCKANET? OMFGCONDISR2OP?
- condi builds are not worthless, what do you think celestials are?

Poison + Burning + Celestials = kills condition-type builds.

ArenaNet failure to nerf Sigil of Doom is amazing. It’s one of the most toxic sigils in PvP and why Celestials is significantly more powerful than it should be. Burning and poison can easily deal 1k damage a second and reduce recovery. Why take other conditions? They are just a waste.

that is my point, you don’t even need to run pure condi build for them to be effective

certanly, the 700 condi dmg change will have impact
BUT (correct me here, i am not so sure about numbers) current celestial gives 438 condi dmg, with 10% nerf it will be 394~ condi dmg; 300? will be baseline after trait patch so any character with cele amy will already sit at 700 condi dmg? throw some might stacks and certain runes/sigils in and you got same celestial cancer running around doing way too much condi dmg

Nowhere did they said secondary stats would be baseline. That 300 condi damage is completely gone from traits and is being rebalanced by increasing its gain from gear and amulets. Cele builds will bee 6~10 might to reach 700+ condi damage.

The change was made to make investing into condition damage more worth while since as it is now in pvp and pve its essentially lacklustre compared to power damage because it a) takes time to ramp up, b) can be completely removed so wont do full damage, c) can now be completely ignored for small durations due to resistance.
With this change power builds will do next to no condition damage at all, cele builds will do low to average condition damage, like they are meant to, and condition builds will actually do a decent amount of condition damage like they need to to be competitive. How much more they will do than now has yet to be seen as well.

In short without might cele builds condi pressure will be so much lower, especially with the changes to poison and burn stacking in intensity. From the Dragon hunter video you can see that burn does base 150 on the parts when he is using the zerk amulet. As it is now because it does like 4~600 damage for them. Because it stacks in intensity it will be harder for them to keep it on us and ramp might for higher damage on it and any random burns wont do massive damage before falling off. Same with poison, this stacks in intensity means it wont last for extremely long times meaning you actually need to use it correctly to prevent healing. This is better since you need to be active with it instead of just stacking it as long as you can.

Stat wise cele builds will be weaker overall because of the loss of stats from traitlines. Also i fully expect conditions to have their durations looked at as well as condition duration getting the ferocity treatment and becoming a stat. If this happens then condition builds will have to branch out to decide if they want longer conditions or more defense. Even without that I dont see a problem with their only needing one stat because the damage is over time and they are meant to grind people down rather than instant power damage.

All in all i have no concerns about this change since in combination with the stat and trait changes it should bring a few things into line that were out of whack before. Cele builds namely as well as conditions being essentially meh.

i am not saying that vulerability change is bad, i am saying that spells applying condis need to be rebalanced to match direct dmg build costs

I dont agree with this. Condi damage takes a while for it to happen. An ability that can do 3k direct damage should have the same balance as one that does 3k condition damage because one is instant and the other isnt. Also if you have condition on you and someone stacks vuln to increase their pressure, or vica verca, then again i see no problem because they can be mitigated completely.

edit:
You can also see that vulnerability is working on condi in the dragon hunter video since after the trag goes burns go from 3.2k to 4.5k with 25% vuln and max condi damage due to carrion amulet.

Bhawb.7408:

He’s talking about the CDR.

ok right

ronpierce.2760:

I wish they’d swap dagger and focus skills so i could run Dagger/Dagger and get full benefit from the new blood dagger trait. would be worth having to get another dagger :P

it doesnt see to have a restriction. as long as you have one equip it will be 25%

[quotes]The active on Signet of the Locust, which it pops at a health threshold, scales with power, making it very weak on condi builds. This is also pretty weak for a Grandmaster, especially when we compare it with Lingering Curse, Terror, Foot in the Grave, and Dhuumfire, which are all amazing traits.[/quote]
The healing portion stacks with siphon traits and healing power so its useful in that regard since it can be between a 1.5~around 10k at max potential. Its a second heal that will trigger at 50% every 24s. Combined with the spite minor for +1900hp on striking a target below 25% it can add up to a lot of extra sustain. Its an extremely defensive grans master.

Stacking in intensity means they stack in intensity and will function like everything else that stacks in intensity. Watch the dragon hunter video for reference.

Literally one necro or mesmer will remove enough boons to make might stacking up to extremely high numbers difficult. As a whole its going to be harder to maintain high stacks of might.

They will have less HP, armour, and healing power so there sustain should also be lower. Again all stats lost from traits.

I’ll put it bluntly. They will maintain less might because they lose 30% boon duration.

They have lower base condition damage because they lose it from traits and it will just come from their ammy. Dedicated condi builds will have far more. They need around 10-11 stacks of might to break even damage wise.

Boon removal is essential and just as easy as it is to stack might. If you can’t keep someones might in check its not my fault because its easy to do with the amount of boon removal in the game.

No matter how you look at it those builds are becoming weaker stat wise than they are now and should be far more manageable.

Rickster.8752:

Sigmoid.7082:

Keep the might generation in check and they actually are much weaker than they are now. They also lose stats of trait lines so some of their stats will be much lower to boot. They will have less toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration so the build will be more manageable and easier to keep in check.

Yeh but the might generation won’t be in check. Warrior can instantly stack 15 stacks of might on his own.

For one they will have lower stats and for second they will have less boon duration do the stacks won’t last as long. Further more boon removal is s thing and they count as a single stack. Maybe classes have access to lots of boon removal. Again not an issue. This change makes Condi’s on power builds weaker, Condi’s on cele build average at best if you let them stack up enough might and it improves them on condi builds since they were lacklustre.

Keep the might generation in check and they actually are much weaker than they are now. They also lose stats of trait lines so some of their stats will be much lower to boot. They will have less toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration so the build will be more manageable and easier to keep in check.

C.) Chill deals damage trait to be mandatory

Not really.

I dont think its going to be a huge bother since it effects a very small number of skills that now wont be covering an extra 2~300 range. The main skills this is going to bother are ride the lightning, if its used to get away it has a 40s cooldown, Rush , savage leap, swoop and hornets sting but then the ranger/warrior has to have swords.

Im not at all bothered because of a few other things as well as just reaper and their chill uptime. the movement speed reduction is more of a bonus. the real thing im excited about is more chill uptime and ease of application because chill triples peoples cooldowns.

Dont bring meta arguments because that is all going to change because of stat, trait and condi scaling changes.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

choovanski.5462:

Sunfish.5970:

infantrydiv.1620:

Sunfish.5970:

Conditions do not provide enough counter pressure to stop a train, if any pressure at all before you die to pure dps.

Wow, sounds like you yourself admit a perfect reason why dire could possibly be added.

dps will always win against condi as long as shoutbows/medi-guards exist in a team. Adding dire isnt a solution to that. Nerfing shoutbows is 8^)

if you nerf shoutbow people will just go back to the old group condi cleanse class pure voice guardian. shoutbow is nothing new.

except shot bow has more CC & damage then pure of voice guardian while doing the same or better healing while removing conditions.

It will do agurably much less damage after the changes to stats and amulets as well as the condi changes.

Leaps

• feeling less bothered *

If it did it as a one off on application with the numbers on deathly chill it would be extremely weak and you can see from the reaper video it causes it to work exactly like terror does just at lower damage because chill is easier to do than fear.

The only problem with it is since its still duration it will suffer from the problems that burn and poison are suffering from now. And i dont see them changing it to stack in intensity since that would ruin chill for everyone else.

It only really affects warrior, ranger and engi and it actually loweres the maximum distance they can move. The more i think abou it the less this actually bothers me as a change. Also im calling the ride the lightning nerf is going to hit rush and swoop.

Darksteel.8412:

Lordrosicky.5813:

This only is a buff to warriors and rangers basically. Guardians deserve the more mobility.

So its a stupid change which dumbs down the game completely. However, to compensate I suggest that skills on warrior like the leap on sword and the gs mobility skills have their cds bumped up a little.

20 sec on rush is long enough as it is and 16 on trait…not bad compared to ports that breakstun…however if they will do this…then also for ranger gs leap…I think you forgot ranger as well so I added it

In4b the “If this skill hits a target its cooldown is reduced by x%” on movement skills.

Ride the lightning nerfs, ride the lightning nerfs everywhere!!

L Step.8659:

Sigmoid.7082:

L Step.8659:

Zerker still meta in PvE, Shoutbow still meta in PvP along with dd eles. And our condi build isn’t even the best damaging condi build.

Nope still not viable.

Meta will change with all te trait and stat changes so we dont even know whats going to be what.

Zerker will always be the most damaging gear and most meta specs like shoutbow are getting stronger. There’s going to be a huge power creep in PvP judging from the previewed trait lines. Also condi necro is still in a bad state regardless of traits. Not enough pressure. Cripple on scepter has just become weaker, still can’t generate life force reliably. All it has going for it are transfers, and a monkey can dodge deathly swarm.

Numbers and traits werent final. Before i see them i wont judge whats going to happen to the meta in pvp. Because of what we got told today i expect a bunch of skill changes as well.

L Step.8659:

Zerker still meta in PvE, Shoutbow still meta in PvP along with dd eles. And our condi build isn’t even the best damaging condi build.

Nope still not viable.

Meta will change with all te trait and stat changes so we dont even know whats going to be what.

sevenDEADLY.5281:

The damage from the trait to make chill do damage is NOT a DoT. Its a one time up front damage done at the time chill is applied. So it doesn’t matter if it stacks in intensity or not. You’ll get the up front damage every time you use an ability that applies chill.

Dude its a dot that does damage over time. It causes chill to do damage for every second that it is on a target. Clearly. watch the reaper video. You can see at 44:22 he hits and ice wurn with the final auto and it chills it. you see 415, 624, 626 as the three ticks, the last two being higher due to it falling below 50% so yeah you are wrong.

1. Parasitic Contagion
2. Epidemic
3. ???
4. Profit??

damage with less than 700 condi damage<Current damage< damage with more than 700 condi damage.

One example is the pull. You can negate shadow refuge if timed right and opposed to fear it puts them in the range of further damage.

Second is night fall has a radius of 300, that covers most points and removes pressure from people on point. can also spread mass chill and be used as a better well of darkness ( Imo well of darkness is going to get changed loads because nightfall is better in every way )

Also it cleaves downed bodies better than anything we have due to nightfall grave digger spam being essentially an aoe backstab every second on 5 targets.

And may more. just have to look at it out the box.

Darksteel.8412:

Sigmoid.7082:

With the warrior rush going 1200 distance. Evene if you had the max move speed difference of you swifted and them chilled it would still mean that at the end of their rush it would still take you almost 6s to catch up to them unless you used a similar movement skills.

6 seconds?…..youre on permachill yourself then…it never takes that long to travel that distance even on just regular moevement….so he got away…..yea that’s the intention and option the warri should have like many others do. your point?

Movement speed is 210 base in combat. With swiftness its about 280 and with chill they are moving at 70 units. With them 1200 range away after rush; so catch up to them to be on the same spot them moving at 70 units and you at 280 units in the same direction it will take you ~6 seconds.

The point being RtL got nerfed for this same reason so in all likelyhood rush may also have the same treatment in having its cooldown adjusted if you dont hit a target. Also it was just used as an example of movement skills and how this change will make things very different. No doubt movement skills will be looked at.

Roe.3679:

I wish they didn’t sell death’s charge as being awesome for ignoring movement impairing effects before they made it baseline.

That’s a big change for us, using cripple or chill at the right time actually kept some of those classes around. Now they’ll always get away.

I hope they changed it in some way to compensate.

Dual ragee condi bomb inc. 50+ stacks of bleed instantly. Rip.