Guild Wars 2

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspCYnuSiF17ICoCAmoHPGlNZfe8WPIEC-jUDBohBkgAhEBgKAM5pIasVOht0JIVQRTXDT5iIq2eDzgbR12dASBAxwK-w

Ok since you plainly refuse to read my original post let me make it simple.
does my build look like a DPS build to you or a control bunker build. You can make your mind up and then go roll that warrior. Fact is i use that build to a high degree of success to command and run in zerg v zerg you dont believe me, i dont care. Your new cookie cut warrior is waiting.

Banumiel.1926:

Maiden England.3491:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTA1_p5sm6Y

example of what necro wells do. I’ve yet to see an engineer achieving similar results using bomb kit…

And a warriors example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Je7ktc2MHqs
Engineer into a melee train is a poorly exploited slot

well then why dont you go roll one because you obviuosly cant see what an engineer brings to the fight.

Maiden England.3491:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTA1_p5sm6Y

example of what necro wells do. I’ve yet to see an engineer achieving similar results using bomb kit…

i am confused. Thought i mentioned that my build is a control build and that a zerker necro will obviously get higher DPS but thats not what the bomb kit is about. huh…

But your right i wont see the same numbers the zerker necro in the backline will but if you look closely you will notice that my roation heavily weakens the enemy zerg.

aoe 5 stacks confusion : enemys have to watch there attack speed.
aoe poison: reduced healing
aoe chill; reduced ability recharge and movement
aoe vuln; massive stacks on multiple targets (this plus hammer warrior = dead people)

and i can throw smoke bomb, glue bomb and flash grenade into that rotation as well for

aoe blind.
aoe immoblize
aoe cripple.
(these all apply per pulse)

the best bit about the pulsing effect is if they cleanse they just get more and theres no aoe downtime as this all happens in 10 seconds. Now you tell me if this is not as valuable as a zerker necro who has a dps uptime of 6 seconds with 22 second downtime and 5 second uptime with 27 second downtime respectively. (traited)

Oh and i get 25 stacks of might passive just for rotating.

naaaaaw must be imagining it.

EDIT: nice video btw. a nec doing his job really well.

Maiden England.3491:

Singer.8740:

Maiden England.3491:

If you run full clerics, which is a PAIN to get, your bombs will heal for around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky bu around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky builds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.ilds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes in terms of damage… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.

wrong, wrong and wrong the only thing right is that EIB is not worth it. If you look at my bunker bomber you will see that it does allot of damage via burn pulses and confusion while stacking vuln. the fire bomb is the best burn applier in zerg v zerg because if they cleanse it the field just immediately applies another burn. once fully stacked the burn does 1k damage a second and is applied on pulse and this of course is only one facet of the bomb kits damage and control ability. You cant really compare the bomb kit to wells ether since wells are primarily power based and have long cool downs, the opposite of the bomb kit.

yes, but the burning is literally the only skill that pulses, doesnt last as long as wells, and has a much much smaller radius. plus wells can be put down from range, and are instant. in large scale zerg vs zerg fights wells are simply the better option. you may toy around and see some numbers when you use bomb kit in a zerg, but you still arent being as effective as a necro.

see numbers. my screen is lit up with numbers. smoke bomb, glue bomb also pulses benefiting from steel-packed powder. There is only a 7 second interval between fire bomb up times and it apply’s 5 burns every pulse for three pulses. Its super sticky damage that can potentioly burn fifteen people. i described my opener above but after words my rotation generally goes;

concusion bomb > fire bomb > med kit> nade kit> shrapnel grenade >posion grenade >shrapnel grenade >freeze grenade > med kit > bomb kit >repeat. using other skills as depending on the situation.

But your right i wont see the same numbers the zerker necro in the backline will but if you look closely you will notice that my roation heavily weakens the enemy zerg.

aoe 5 stacks confusion : enemys have to watch there attack speed.
aoe poison: reduced healing
aoe chill; reduced ability recharge and movement
aoe vuln; massive stacks on multiple targets (this plus hammer warrior = dead people)

and i can throw smoke bomb, glue bomb and flash grenade into that rotation as well for

aoe blind.
aoe immoblize
aoe cripple.
(these all apply per pulse)

the best bit about the pulsing effect is if they cleanse they just get more and theres no aoe downtime as this all happens in 10 seconds. Now you tell me if this is not as valuable as a zerker necro who has a dps uptime of 6 seconds with 22 second downtime and 5 second uptime with 27 second downtime respectively. (traited)

Oh and i get 25 stacks of might passive just for rotating.

Maiden England.3491:

If you run full clerics, which is a PAIN to get, your bombs will heal for around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky bu around 315 or so. in a zerg that makes such a small difference, especially since you wont be constantly dropping the bombs, you’ll also be switching out to do other things. zerg sustainability either comes from individual players having tanky builds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.ilds, or from water fields. bomb heals is no replacement for those, and is outdone by ele waterfields. oh and bomb kit isnt as reliable as other aoes in terms of damage… compared to a necros wells or marks for example.

wrong, wrong and wrong the only thing right is that EIB is not worth it. If you look at my bunker bomber you will see that it does allot of damage via burn pulses and confusion while stacking vuln. the fire bomb is the best burn applier in zerg v zerg because if they cleanse it the field just immediately applies another burn. once fully stacked the burn does 1k damage a second and is applied on pulse and this of course is only one facet of the bomb kits damage and control ability. You cant really compare the bomb kit to wells ether since wells are primarily power based and have long cool downs, the opposite of the bomb kit.

tattoohead.3217:

Access to more knock backs than my war (all of them AoE too) great group healing, cleanse, and stability. Plus all the combo fields & blast finishers, I really see no reason not to take engi. If a guild asks you not to bring your engi and play your war instead… They kind of suck, look for a real wvw guild.

I laughed so hard at this. You are absolutely right.

One internet high five for you.

/highfive

I run allot of wvw and I only do zerg combat.
I use the two builds I am going to list bellow. They are both very effective at what they do.

The bunker bomber.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqel0pSX3zSiF87ISoC2noH6Hl5YfeIXPIEC-jkCB4iBkWAhkGkEBITqIasVhFRjVJjIqWdDzcjRr2uDIEATA-w
I use this build when I am commanding and most of the time otherwise.
It uses “Potions of karka toughness for nourishment” and you can swap the omnomberry creams for saffron bread or lemongrass if you want to be even tougher.
I generally open with toss elixir b then run into the enemy with shield 5 followed by big old bomb, bomb 2 and 3 then mash the elite. If I turn into the tornado I start blinding enemy’s while shooting burning bolts from fire field. If I turn into the hulk I use skill five then use skill 3 to get out of the mess where I call for a stack up and switch to nade kit ready for the next push. while all this goes on you can keep up 25 stacks of might simply by swapping to med kit every 10 seconds. A super tanky build with extreme control options.

When I feel like a change up I use I standard zerker nader build.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIqyX37SiF17IyoHdGntZgKAYfe8WtFEC-jEDBYfAohgEEIk3gUBAJPFRjtMkIasqBVXDT5iIq2ejRr2uDQKAI2VB-w

With this build you hang around the far periphery of combat taking advantage of high ground whenever you can and bombard the centre of the enemy ball with nades. This build has become allot more viable since the decline of retaliation. (because of the ret nerf) If you like suuuper high dps while covering your enemy in massive stacks of bleeds, poison torment and vulnerability this is the build for you. It requires good spatial awareness as you have to make sure to stay away from the lightshow, luckily you have elixir s and rocket boots to hep you do this. this build is allot of fun and I recommend you give it a try. It is a little expensive to put together however. :P

If you actually took the time to read my post properly you would have read the bit were I mentioned the patch is coming weather you like it or not. so you can

a.) be optimistic and try and enjoy the patch.
Carrot.

b.) or be pessimistic and not enjoy it.
Stick.

Draknar.5748:

Wethospu.6437:

Again, we are complaining about the time lost. Time can be spent on other things than just items. Please ask if you don’t understand the situation.

As have been mentioned multiple times before, your gold is also just a number. Remove all your gold, it’s just a number.
If you feel like you should get a compensation then please make your own topic instead of hi-jacking this. I honestly won’t care if you get compensated (I’m not that selfish).

A) Gold can be spent on items so it has a value. You can do absolutely nothing with your “Personal Reward Level” in Fractals. Nothing. Not one thing. No one sees your level except for you.

B) I need help with the time lost argument: how did you lose time exactly? You played X hours of X dungeon and got X rewards over the course of that time. So, what did you lose? You basically farmed mini dungeons over and over for gear, skins, mats, gold, experience playing the game, fun, etc. etc. If they took every bit of reward you had obtained from FoTM that’s one thing, but you want to be compensated for hours playing something that has already yielded you compensation in the form of money, gear, skins? Are you telling me, us, that the ONLY reason you did FoTM was for that little number in the upper right corner that only you can see?

No, I don’t buy that for a second and nobody else does. People grinded FoTM for higher and higher reward levels, which the benefits have already been obtained via drops. You don’t get double compensated. So your reward levels is pushed down to 30, OK, so what, you still kept all of your rewards from before and they are revamping 30+ FoTM to make it even more rewarding. You aren’t out anything at all, not even your time…

This.

They are resetting fractal levels because they are introducing the new mistlock effects which are level specific.
Why should a player who exploited there way to level 80 and received the level based rewards for doing so get a free meal ticket over the other players who will have to level up through the more challenging content to get there. Here is a carrot and here is a stick pick one because weather you like it or not the patch is coming tomorrow and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

They CATAGORICALY stated that they would NOT do the abbadon fractal EVER.
Sorry folks.

rifle is heavily a 1 v 1 weapon and its short range and lack of utility generally mean it looses to p/p or p/s as a viable choice for wvw. Condition is more popular in general because engineers get there power output from stacking might also engineers can apply conditions so fast that cleansing does not really effect them compared to say a necro who has long cool downs on his ability’s so generally goes the power root as it is more effective. All of this is outside of roaming ofcourse. There really is not any rules or guid lines when building a spec for roaming.

Jastorm.5972:

thanks singer for the math, I wasn’t looking at how multipliers work, just looking at base damage.

your welcome. The problem a lot of people have is they just read the tool tip numbers which sadly are inaccurate, including on sights such as gw2skill.

the calculation is

weapon power (found at the top of the weapons tool tip) x power x skill modifier (found on the wiki for the skill) / armor

Wp x P x Sm / Amr = direct damage

you can further then modify this number by adding on food bonuses, might , traits etc.
to gain a new total that is then further modified by crit damage that is then finally modified by your enemies ability’s (traits such stabilized armor for example.), protection, glancing and the vulnerability de-buff.

Its a lot to take in but i reccomend if you want to compare skills. Simply do the formula and then compare pros and cons of the skills such as range, attack speed, effects etc.

DINAMIT.3018:

Singer.8740:

you guys do know our rifle auto has a 0.65 multiplier compared to a warrior’s 0.4 multiplier.

example; (using the lowest damage range 1035 and 2000 power with enemy medium armour 2200)

warrior:
1035 × 2000 × 0.4 / 2200
828000 /2200
= 376.36

engineer:
1035 × 2000 × 0.65 /2200
1345500 / 2200
= 611.59

after this if we take into account the fact that the warrior auto causes bleed and the engineer auto pierces the engineer auto still comes out on top. This is before introducing traits after which point the engineer auto pulls ahead by a large margin.

Warr rifle have condition damage and 1200range vs 1000 rifle range for engi.

Lets take warr long bow thats have only direct damage and same range
What we see? 0.66 damage multiplier for #1 long bow

1. I outlined the fact that the warrior rifle auto does cause a bleed but you have completely ignored the fact that the engineer auto has the far more useful pierce ability.

2. what does the bow auto have to do with anything in this thread? apart from the fact that it is slow as hell (half a second slower than the warrior and engineer auto’s) for having a mere 0.01 more multiplier.

The fact remains that the engineer rifle auto is one of the games better auto attacks. Sadly our pistol and harpoon gun auto attacks are not up to the same standard (although why you would not be using the OP nades under water is beyond me?)
Just do the maths as I have and you will see.

you guys do know our rifle auto has a 0.65 multiplier compared to a warrior’s 0.4 multiplier.

example; (using the lowest damage range 1035 and 2000 power with enemy medium armour 2200)

warrior:
1035 × 2000 × 0.4 / 2200
828000 /2200
= 376.36

engineer:
1035 × 2000 × 0.65 /2200
1345500 / 2200
= 611.59

after this if we take into account the fact that the warrior auto causes bleed and the engineer auto pierces the engineer auto still comes out on top. This is before introducing traits after which point the engineer auto pulls ahead by a large margin.

fodem.2713:

Lets see if everybody has the same opinion…
Wich class is the easiest to kill as an engineer ?

thief or guardian. cant make my mind up.

Maevlynin.3280:

naphack.9346:

It’s no longer about being part of a guild. WvW on Drakkar is about being part of the server. Every single soul on the map works as one singular being.

This is exactly why I love playing for Drakkar Lake, too.
I am sorry the way we play is no fun for you, Surmias, but on the other hand, I am one of those boring players who rather like to build and support than joining 1vs1 fights. It’s simply no fun for me to bash other people (even if it’s virtual bashing) and, that said, I have little to no experience how to fight against other players. Come, bash me if you want. I’ll let anyone kill me to get back to what I actually like to do, and you can’t say that scouting, Dolyak speeding, building keeps and keep defense are not part of WvW, too. I am roaming too, but not exactly to look for fights, more to support my server by trying for bloodlust or such. Well, yes… may sound boring for most, but it’s fun for me.

So… if I’d have to put up with lots of small and bigger guilds all working for themselves instead of the server community, I’d certainly enjoy the game much less than I do now.
To each their own, I guess. You can’t have it all, stop looking for all the things you don’t like. Think positive and focus on things you do like, even if you think they’re tiny bits of the whole kitten. Instead of complaining about the massive blobs that blast you while you seem to succeed against smaller groups and the unfairness of it all, think about what Naphack wrote. It may be a different game than you know, or favour, but that doesn’t make it wrong or bad. It simply needs adapting to and making the best out of it. You’ve been doing a great job during the first half of the week but I do think we deserve the outcome (same as you would because of the spirit you showed ingame) since we dedicated ourselves to win the week and didn’t lose faith we could do this.

Good job, to all three servers. It’s an awesome week and I’ve enjoyed taking what little part I can take in it right now due to RL issues.

thumbs up

Edit: I’d like to add, that this is only speaking for me, not for all Drakkarians. We do have people who love to fight.

And that’s the crux of the matter right there. As a server German server’s in general have the same mentality as the high tier servers. and that is the ability to come together as a server for the outcome of the larger picture. You may have noticed for example that DL do not have many dedicated wvw guilds ( IF is the only one that comes to mind.) but what they lack in this aspect they eclipse with there ability to come together as a server, and what this does for them is a.) numerical advantage b.) Good commanders who understand that attrition warfare is the best way to play wvw and who are trusted by there community. c.) they play to win (don’t mind doing the little things and are relentless.) d.) the wvw guilds they do have are active in the community and are not elitist and/ or excluded by the community. e.) coverage. In short it is a very well oiled machine.
hats off to DL on your victory. /salute to the IF guild for some nice fights. I hope RoS learns from this loss and comes together as a server for next time.

funny how everyone forgets the naughty stuff we can do with weapon swap sigils and runes that other classes cant. I run a might stack build based off this example.

I am however not agreeing with engineer’s being left out of the loop, …. again. just thought i would point it out.

Banumiel.1926:

Singer.8740:

only sword and GS auto’s cleave

And hammer

AOE heal on five people every half a second

AOE damage on five people every half a second

has to be in melee range to deal damage

A melee train no needs more range…

only the third auto attack on hammer cleaves which is why i did not include it as a viable option because it is vary rare for a hammer to get to the third auto or enemy’s to stay in range for it. If you do not see the point in a HoT skill then i suppose you wont be needing healing signet huh because there is oh so many attacks out there that deal damage faster than 1 second /sarcasm. I cant believe your arguing against using a HoT and a good one at that.

EDIT; also cleave only hits 3 people not five. cleave is not AoE like earthshaker for example. Think before posting, thankyou

cant beat a good hitler rant.

coglin.1867:

Read the OP, and my first thought was……….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q3em9s5I4c

i prefer this one. Now the December patch, that was a bad day for engineer’s.

http://youtu.be/gfRXlkZuxLc

Phineas Poe.3018:

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

personally I’m more worried about the buff to healing bombs being too powerful and resulting in future nerfs to be honest.

Interesting use of a braveheart reference

If they stick to what was announced, then you need not be: 1200 healing power scaling by 0.15 (+50% from now) will result in 325 healed/bomb for 30 trait points.
Elementalist staff autoattack heals for 370 with 0 healing power and has a scaling of 0.25 (so with 1200 it would be 670) for 0 train points.

To be fair, Water Blast is a significantly slower auto-attack with a smaller radius.

Mechanically, it’s also important to recognize that Water Blast requires a target to hit. You can drop bombs anywhere, like when you’re on the move.

yup you get 2 and a quarter auto attacks with bomb for every 1 staff ele water auto so it adds up.

coglin.1867:

Baron NJS.5704:

Every class can do everything we do but better

I find it interesting that this has been disprove repeatedly, yet the same people love to post it in topics and say nothing else.

It is a poor craftsman that blames their tools.

Indeed coglin makes me /sigh every time I read one.

Linc.6834:

I guess my question is it worth going to 100% condition duration bonus? How do the duration bonuses work? His -40 cancels my +40 food? And his -25 from runes cancels 25 of my explosive points? Leaving me basically base duration conditions?

the reduction is applied after all your modifiers are applied.

so your duration final total is then effected by his reductions. no cancelling is applied.
example;
burn (5 secs)+ 70% condi duration =3.5
5 +3.5 = 8.5 total.

8.5 – 65% = 3

so the burn that was originally 5 seconds lasts only 3 seconds.

as you can see this causes more trouble for duration based conditions such as burn poison, chill, cripple etc than condi damage conditions such as bleed, confusion, torment (all though they are still effected somewhat.)

EDIT; basically you will have trouble trying to kill the warrior but he should have trouble dealing with you if you kite him effectively. Pure condition builds will ofcourse have troube with builds like this which is why I suggest you build hybrid. I use a bomb nade tanky control build and I stack might to get 3200 attack and 3k condi damage. I also take 53% reduced damage when disabled its a very good build for dealing with most situations.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcQQJAqel0pSX3zSiF17ISoC2noH6Hl5YfeIXPIEC-j0CB4iCh0CIk0gkIAZSFRjtKsIasKZER1KlYGcZ1uDwgWRWKAImGB-w

I recently swapped my tuning crystals out for potions of karka toughness, they are very good.

I sit at 3k after im all stacked up and have my might rolling.

Banumiel.1926:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

personally I’m more worried about the buff to healing bombs being too powerful and resulting in future nerfs to be honest.

Interesting use of a braveheart reference

A warrior hits for 1k+ AOE with autoattack, a engineer heals 350. Where is the buff? Elixir-Infuse Bombs is a trait for n00bs.

only sword and GS auto’s cleave, the warrior has to be in melee range to deal damage and you overlook the fact that it is an AOE heal on five people every half a second. you shouldn’t throw the noob word around especially when your misinformed. That’s like saying the warriors healing signet is bad because it only heals about 400 a second. think before posting please.

Baron NJS.5704:

Ya but that would only make sense…and im not convinced they know what they are doing with this class.
Every class can do everything we do but better

except stacking might, except stacking vuln, except being able to do lots of different things at the same time without watering down the class. (other classes have to specialize to do “better” at something we can do without specializing)

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

personally I’m more worried about the buff to healing bombs being too powerful and resulting in future nerfs to be honest.

Interesting use of a braveheart reference

If they stick to what was announced, then you need not be: 1200 healing power scaling by 0.15 (+50% from now) will result in 325 healed/bomb for 30 trait points.
Elementalist staff autoattack heals for 370 with 0 healing power and has a scaling of 0.25 (so with 1200 it would be 670) for 0 train points.

except it takes 1.35 seconds to do one ele staff auto (while in water) and only half a sec to do one bomb attack auto (3/4 sec on first bomb do to explosion delay). so you get 2 bomb autos done at the same time you get one ele staff auto. so (x2) that math, nuff said.

lLobo.7960:

Singer.8740:

Kizzu.5826:

@singer, I know what the trait is supposed to do. But I am using it right now, it gives me one extra blast per turret.
Try it.

tried it before posting, double checked before posting this. Try it.

I tried it, no extra blast finisher.

yup. even tried the old bug with hitting blast while the turret was traveling, needles to say that’s been fixed.

Kizzu.5826:

@Singer then we are not playing the same game, nuff said.

Indeed, nuff said. :/

“I´ve put Mod Ammo there just for the update on dec 10th when it goes for all weps/kits”

good call

Kizzu.5826:

@singer, I know what the trait is supposed to do. But I am using it right now, it gives me one extra blast per turret.
Try it.

tried it before posting, double checked before posting this. Try it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqel0pqbn1ynF17IyYGd2oBmRddXfUIXPIA-jABBkIAFhht0JaVQBBA-e

I think this would be more viable. sitting in FT gives you a base of 6 – 8 might and swapping to med kit gives you 9 stacks of might and you can build on that every 10 seconds. you also have two fire fields and a plethora of blasts.

lLobo.7960:

If you are going for the FT its (IMO) a waste of dps not to go into alchemy for the 15% dmg trait.

I`m using this one on dungeons:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcQQFAUl0pyansSTF19IxYGkuzgZA47KSR+bMA-jACBYLAkIAJPFRjtIMs1hRryJI6aYKXER1A-e

25 might stacks with ease using all the blast finishers on the FT fire field.
good ammount of burning due to riffle turret TB skill comboing on the field also. Use the Riffle turret overcharge to get some extra Vulnerability on the target before you blast it, you got time, the FT field lasts for a long time.

With 2 runes of altruism and a sigil of battle you get 6 (and 3 to your group) stacks of might going into healing kit. With the long lasting might stacks and the ability to go on HK at will, it goes up to 12-15 stacks for you. Add that the stacks from juggernaut and from the 4 blasts in the fire field and you get perma 25 stacks with no problem, while doing dmg from SD on the target.

That’s all well and good but this thread is about might stacking while NOT using the alchemy tree.

Kizzu.5826:

Two blasts when using the deployable turret trait, except for the healing turret.

I think your misinformed. deployable turrets does not make them blast finishers

Kizzu.5826:

I’m destroying the turrets immediatly after throwing them in midair (first explosion), then they land and I destroy them a second time (second explosion).
I’m not chosing thumper cause the CD is twice longer than flamethrower turret.

Turrets only blast when you blow them up (or if they get blown up and you have the trait accelerant packed turrets.) so basically only one blast per turret unless you use thumper.

also you would get better stacking swapping the flame turret for bomb kit.

lunyboy.8672:

Is this real life?

Obviously you’re not going to hit for 8K in most dungeons. That has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the kit so much as that running a dungeon like Ascalon Catacombs explorable maxes you out with the stats of someone at level 35.

And you call me misguided. Wow.

so/

969 x pow x skill specific coefficient / target armor

meaning

969 × 3563 x (insert skill) / (2000, 2200, 2600)

example

969 × 3563 x (bomb, 1.250) / 2600 (heavy mob) = 1660

1660 x (trait, vuln, protection, glancing, nourishment special effects)

therefore

1660 + explosive powder 10% + enduring damage 10%

1660 + (166 x2) = 1992

1992 x Crit (245%) = 4880 + vuln (25%) = 6100

before food and nourishment, warrior banners etc. and as i said im specced support so no power runes and lets not forget scaling making low level stuff lolz.

with such things you get this;

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/92649/Bomb.jpg

and i have all that awsome utility and who said anything about knockbakcs 0.o thats more comman sence of when and when not to use them than anything else :/

P.S. Tooltip info is inacurate and scaling maxes you at say catacombs 35 + % of gear quality so as such a level 80 in exotics in catacombs will do more DPS than a lv 35 in blue greens in catacombs. please do your homework.

EDIT; just noticed so many people here trying to make points without backing them up with valid proof such as traited FGS going god mode exept for the part were theres things called cooldowns on abilities so you will be using most of those charges on auto. So i think im gonna call quits on this post before i go insane. Think ill go number crunch a conjure ele. seems like fun.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Singer.8740:

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Singer.8740:

…
please take a look at this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pqb3zSeF1LJyYGkWnBqAgJWwnHyVb9gA-jADBYfBhgAhEBI5pIasFhhtyJalOBRXDT5iIq2eDzgbR12dASBYiyI-e

this is an example of an engineer build that;

1. gives 9 stacks might to the party just from switching to med kit every 10 secs. combined with the fire field everyone is on 25 stacks of might without you breaking dps rotation.
…

It’s 9 stacks for you (while in combat) but only 3 for the party.

nooooo after 30 secsonds its 9 stacks for everyone 16 stacks for me (while IC)

Base might duration on altruism runes is 10 seconds. With 25% boon duration and 40% might duration it’s 16,5 seconds. You can reach a maximum of 6 might for 6,5 seconds then it goes back to 3.

lol, your completely right got my maths mixed up with the maths from my wvw gear (below)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqel0pSX3zSiF87ISoC2noH6Hl5YfeIXPIEC-jQCBYfI4iBkgAhkGkEBITqIasVhFRjVJjIqWdDDA-e

doesnt change the facts that the dungeon group still sits on a comfortable 25 might with the swapping combined with the fire field and blasts though.

Mork vom Ork.2598:

Singer.8740:

…
please take a look at this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pqb3zSeF1LJyYGkWnBqAgJWwnHyVb9gA-jADBYfBhgAhEBI5pIasFhhtyJalOBRXDT5iIq2eDzgbR12dASBYiyI-e

this is an example of an engineer build that;

1. gives 9 stacks might to the party just from switching to med kit every 10 secs. combined with the fire field everyone is on 25 stacks of might without you breaking dps rotation.
…

It’s 9 stacks for you (while in combat) but only 3 for the party.

nooooo after 30 secsonds its 9 stacks for everyone 16 stacks for me (while IC)

Phineas Poe.3018:

lunyboy.8672:

But to be frank, your claiming that the Flamethrower is good for anything other than a torch for dark jumping puzzles or a utility kit that helps you die from retaliation is misguided at best, and leads me to take the rest of your comments with a very large grain of salt.

Well that was rude.

indeed :[

wonder when was the last time i saw a ret mob pack in dungeons was.
ive seen some very good FT dungeon builds.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

coglin.1867:

lunyboy.8672:

The point trying to be made is, other professions have access to these various utilities easier without having an engineer in the party.

Okay, Let us put it to the test. Take the 6 areas of group benefit everyone has focused on and tell us how other professions do it better.

1. Area Might
2. Vulnerability
3. Projectile walls/reflects
4. Condition removal
5. Stability
6. Area Stealth (for skipping)

I think we can all agree that you can skip #6 though. That one is kind of no contest.

I notice you still left out #7 group fury

I have already shown you where I think other professions can do each one better the only one engineers have is #2 vulnerability, and debatably group condition removal which upon further investigation I think is off from guardian with purging flames and save yourselves, I don’t know if pure of voice stacks with soldier runes for 2 conditions removed per shout, cleansing flame, ray of judgement, purifiying blast, bow of truth, or possibly necros with putrid mark, well of power and plague signet(personally think engis might be better then necros on this one but debateable).

I still don’t understand how you see toss elixir b as anywhere near the stability a guardian can put out for example toss elixir B with 30 points in tools and 100% boon duration would give something like 8 seconds of stability on a 21~ second recharge possibly 2 extra seconds from rumble while guardians have under similar situation stand your ground 10 seconds of stability on a 25 second recharge, and hallowed ground(I could be wrong about how this skill would work with 100% boon duration and master of consecrations, if so please correct me) 24 seconds of stability on a 64 second recharge meaning a guardian could have a 77.5% uptime on stability with 44 seconds of unstopped stability while engineer at best has about 50% stability uptime with 10 seconds of uninterrupted stability

please take a look at this build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pqb3zSeF1LJyYGkWnBqAgJWwnHyVb9gA-jADBYfBhgAhEBI5pIasFhhtyJalOBRXDT5iIq2eDzgbR12dASBYiyI-e

this is an example of an engineer build that;

1. gives 9 stacks might to the party just from switching to med kit every 10 secs. combined with the fire field everyone is on 25 stacks of might without you breaking dps rotation.
2. 22-25 stacks of vulnerability
3. reflect (see comment below)
4. condition removal
5. group stability. (see comment below)
6. swap med kit, EG and Elixer U for healing turret, thumper and flame turret. (15 secs of stealth for skipping) Then swap back.

Elixer U is a flexible utility this slot can be filled with whatever you need for the situation with no detriment to the build at all, need a push or pull done. need more cleanse done. need stability done. whatever you need you can have it.
you cant beat hallowed ground for stability and the condi cleanse on a guard is through the roof not to mention guards have reflect in buckets. Its for these reasons that guard holds the number 2 spot on my list. Lastly the perma fury thing is not needed cuz warriors give us that just from banners/ shouting.

As such my list for dungeon usefulness still stands at;

1. war
2.guard
3.engie
4.ele
5.mes
6.ranger
7.theif
8.necro

EDIT; Forgot to mention that Poe is completely right, my build here has 4828 atk. I get around 7k auto as a matter of course and thats because i choose to might up my team. If i was selfish and took power/crit runes like scholar it would be higher. its pretty easy to get high DPS on an engineer if you know what your doing.

This does not change the fact that if you bring an engineer to a dungeon everyone else can consentrate on min/maxing there DPS cuz that one guy can supply all the utility and still put out those how did you put it “mystical” auto attacks. (just apply zerk and smart trait choices its not rocket sience.)

Engineers dont need PvE buffs what we need is QOL fixes, a rework of traits to do with gadgets and turrets and condi Cleansing that is NOT in the alchemy tree.

Edit; i have close to 4k hours logged on my engineer alone since were playing the measuring game :/

How about a GM trait that takes a gadget off cooldown when you use another gadget (15 second internal cooldown.)

This means that every gadget is essentially two gadgets and i think it would promote gadget builds. Use battering ram rocket boots comes off cooldown, 15 seconds later use throw mine ram comes off cooldown and so on and so on.

coglin.1867:

Singer.8740:

Shanks R Us.2489:

Or, they could completely delete the skin & make an entirely new one that doesn’t suck.

Ooooooooooh someones buthurt cuz they got corpse trolled by a quip auto in WvW.

Do you actually think before you post? It has nothing to do with a random player killing someone in WvW.

With Quip, your own friends and guildies will avoid playing dungeons and WvW with you. Because the soud effects will annoy them that much. You will not even want to play with you, because the noises from this pistol will annoy you.

i own quip and i have never noticed these problems? i have noticed allot of people rageroiding there keyboards in WvW however. Take a chill pill and keep your assumptions to yourself thank you.

“a smiley face as a bomb cloud”

ME LIKEY.

YES. That is all.

“Id have to say your list here is quite off for a few reasons
1) ele if using fiery rush from FGS #4 without a target and FGS#3 plus LH when on cooldown they will likely be the highest dps in your party by quite a margin, not to mention their ability to stack 25 might for the group and perma fury I think they deserve #1or 2 spot.”

so you think that an ability on a 3 min cooldown jumps you to number one DPS meter and that you can stack might gives you more utility than the guy who does that passive while stacking vuln, cleansing, healing, DPSing, CCing and carrying stealth……you under stand there is a reason warrior is no 1 on the majority of the player base list and the ele and engie comparison is laughable at best. Speeking of warrior this brings me to my next point.

“2) warrior brings quite a lot of utility to the group actually using GS,A/M banners and able to stack somewhere between 18-22stacks of vulnerability on their own for a short time, also able to create fire fields(wouldn’t suggest it but still there and able to blast them), also if using soldier runes can cleanse about the same number of conditions as the engineer (with a different build from the one above that would be using banners and “on my mark”) also can take trait empower allies for more power for the group”

… i dont even know were to start wiht this one. what your saying is a warrior that brings a banner is UTILITY…thats just DPS min/max i believe you are a bit confused about the meaning of utility. Now Shout cleanse THAT is utility. Shame only idiots would give up a set of Ruby orbs/ Divinity runes/ insert power rune here >< for them outside WvW. and ye three warriors can get get 18 to 22 stacks of vuln for a short time on a single target. why/ how your comparing that to ONE engies aoe vuln stacking is beyond me.

point three:
“3) I feel that you are selling rangers a bit short as they can provide ok vunerability, stone spirit for protection, frost spirit for extra damage, spirit of nature for a group res, and I believe the longest lasting water field through their healing spring, and condition cleanse, they can also bring might and fury stacking to the party through their pets and warhorn. "

Spirits and spotter trait as before. water field overwrites fire field and only supplies regen and cleanse unless blasted so is hence disqualified as a sound choice. you were joking about the might stacking right….

“5) thieves can also provide some good defiant removal(if that’s what you want), can also provide, can give party members might fury swiftness and vigor (through steal skill)” Number of bosses were boon steal is important…….Champ karka………champ karka…….and……champ karka. stick to the stabby stabby thank you.

so once again can you please make a VALID argument as to which classes can offer more DPS than the warrior and more DPS/Utility than the guardian/ engineer to unseat them from there 1. 2. and 3. slots respectively becaue i still dont see any classes that match these three for usefulness.

Shanks R Us.2489:

Or, they could completely delete the skin & make an entirely new one that doesn’t suck.

Ooooooooooh someones buthurt cuz they got corpse trolled by a quip auto in WvW.

Phineas Poe.3018:

spoj.9672:

Yes engineer can contribute to all points you mention but they have pretty weak dps compared to other classes and have to maybe sacrifice a bit more to provide those things.

And again you go back to the numbers. The purpose of my post has seem to gone completely over your head.

spoj.9672:

If you really need stealth take a thief or just use mesmer stealth. Thief has very good damage so its not a loss, mesmer can cover reflects and condi removal so the bad dmg isnt much of an issue.

But I’m not a Thief or Mesmer, and no one in my guild looking to complete a dungeon at the moment is a Thief or a Mesmer. What do I do then? Do we just sit around and wait for one to get online?

You go with what you can get. And the truth of the matter is that the Engineer offers all you need when it comes to stealth with a Smoke field and 5 Blast finishers.

spoj.9672:

Engi cant perma reflect like a mesmer and theoretically mesmer can do alot more dps than any other class if all phantasms stay alive.

You’re talking about two entirely different builds.

spoj.9672:

Its the same issue with necro aswell. Points 3-6 can be covered by and engi reasonably well and points 2 and 4 can be covered by necro pretty well. But that doesnt mean they arent the bottom 2 classes. Why take a sub par choice when you can get all 6 points covered with better dps/group dps and better access to that utility? The real kings of pve and ele’s. You have 5 spaces in a group so why take a class with low dps that can cover most of the utility on its own but less reliably, when you can take 2-3 classes that do more dps and cover the same stuff better?

You agree with me that an Engineer can provide all six necessary things to complete a dungeon in one build and yet you still argue that they’re “sub par.” Sorry, but this just doesn’t make sense to me.

They’re not sub par, and you’ve already established yourself how they aren’t.

spoj.9672:

People defend their class blindly with very little knowledge of pve mechanics and understanding of the other classes. There is nothing wrong with admitting your favourite class is bad for a certain gametype. Heck if you dont then it will never get fixed.

Don’t be rude.

Engineer is not the only class I play. I have an 80 Warrior and an 80 Guardian, and am currently working on maxing out an Elementalist. Both my Warrior and Guardian are outfitted in Berserker/Scholar gear, so I can very easily see how their DPS compares to the Engineer’s.

I’m not defending the Engineer out of favoritism. I’m defending the Engineer because I think you’re wrong.

Yup, there just not seeing the big picture, not to mention we already had a link with pictures to ONE of many dungeon builds that supply all this versatility and utility and crushes the DPS meters as well. Shame the naysayer’s ether ignore the facts of one and use the other as validation or the other way around, or they just flat out claim ignorance. its quite simple really.

1. War= DPS min max (if you have 3) but no utility.
2. guard= DPS if with the above warriors, supplies might, cleansing reflect walls and other usefull dungeon supprot mechanics.
3. Engineer= Self sufficient DPS . Brings might and vuln stacking, heals, stealth, cleansing, reflect walls and various other Dungeon support mechanics.
4. Ele= tool box. lightning hammer, might stacking, water fields.
5. Mesmer= tool box. time warp. reflects, pulls. situational DPS (IF phantasms can live.)
6. ranger = yet again tool box. spirits. spotter trait.
7. Thief= single target DPS, stealth.
8. Necro= vuln stack, blind.

@theguy

Just leave Imaginary be. I tried explaining a few of the rebalances to him and the fact is he is really just too short sighted he does not even read the patch notes properly so my best advise to you is simply to ignore his ranting.