Guild Wars 2

If you have spec’d Mug, you will be revealed if the Mug dealt damage.

It’s not a bug.

Kryshade.6075:

What you are forgetting is that s/p also gives you a pretty incredible amount of damage via pistol whip as well as the movement restrictions/stuns. I run 20 into trickery for the boon strip on steal so I’m not losing out on that ability.

You mention now 20pts on trickery yet you mentioned earlier that you are waiting for Stabs/Retal to fall off. Hmm…

Is it because you can only strip boons every so often?

30pts in Trickery only reduce the Steal CD to 30s, hardly comparable to FS’s boon-stripping ability.

I’ve honestly not played much with s/d so I wont’ comment on it’s effectiveness in high level tourny play. My point was that thieves claiming that s/p wasn’t viable need to stop and think outside the box for a bit.

Well, in your case, since you have not effectively used S/D, that will make S/D outside of your box that you have not tried yet — right?

Alas, the nerf to haste (because a hasted PW was critical to the build) has severely cut down the effectiveness of it to the point I don’t think I can run PW in tournies anymore.

That I agree. Critical Haste is so useless now. 10% of haste for 2s with 30s CD. Garbage!

They added 1s on Haste (skill) but not on Critical Haste.

Volrath.1473:

most utility venoms are better then BV.
BV is a silly excuse of an ELITE and its the ONLY one we can use under water…

The only one I use on land also. The other Elite skills are situational and very limited.

Btw if you turn someone to stone under water, why don’t they “fall” to the bottom of the sea/river? does the BV tun ppl into styrofoam wile under water?!

Depends on your understanding of what/where “bottom” is. To be fair, Anet choose neither sinking nor floating.

There are other factors in your build that can influence your result.

Example: Procs coming from Opportunist and First Strike can be a balance tipper, plus the procs of Critical Haste.

So yeah, on paper it looks that way, but if you add into your calculation the probability of your traits proc-ing, I assure you, you’ll get a very different result.

Oldgrimm.8521:

i have another outlook/pov about BV, i use it as a God mode buff using runes of lyssa,

i tried to follow one of the guides here, and it is quite nice for a change

lol, very nice

Rizzy.8293:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You can move/run away while in Moa Form while BV locks you for the duration.

You cant jump in moa morph and have no utility skills and it lasts an entire 10 seconds.
You cant even click mist form to get get out of it because of no utility skills.

Honestly, you’re gonna tell me that 1.5 secs of being rooted to some place is far worse than being turned into a useless bird for 10 seconds.?

I would have to say yes.

1.5s is long enough to get flatten because you are not just receiving active damage, but also DOTs from AoE, well, marks, etc.

Rizzy.8293:

go infusion, survivablity trumps damage

I agree with this if you want more survivability.

You can easily do the math.

Break down how much (flat) damage you are dealing with Infusion of Shadow with the additional Initiative.

Compare that to the +15% damage (that can scale higher on boons/buffs/vulnerability also).

Just because you ran out of Initiative doesn’t necessarily mean you are doing less damage.

IMO, I’ll take the +15% damage.

You can move/run away while in Moa Form while BV locks you for the duration.

Kryshade.6075:

There is a strong difference between daze and stun. Daze only locks out skills, players can still move. Stun = can’t do anything. The stun from PW is the real beast because when hosted you are chaining stuns which means they aren’t moving. When/if they do move or break stun you simply follow up with infiltrators strike for the immobilize. Most people can’t react to both and simply crumple to the ground. Believe me, the build works and works extremely well especially against other thieves. Stability hurts but it only requires tactical planning on when to pop your burst. Bow and sword auto attack are fantastic fill ins for when you need to wait for stability to drop or retaliation to wear off.

You see, S/D can strip off Stability and Retaliation. Again S/D is ahead of S/P in that situation.

EDIT: Movement restriction is handled by Dancing Daggers and IS. Daze for 1.5s is better than Stun of 0.5s (may be even shorter in PvP, not sure).

Kryshade.6075:

To answer your question I never use tactical strike. The only time I ever stealthed was from heal or shadow refuge. Basically the burst goes like this: PW, steal, haste, PW, PW, infiltrators strike (remember it has an immobilize on hit) auto attack, target dead.

That is an interesting combo.

Now against a good player they will pop stun break. Opposing thieves would shadow step away so it’s pretty easy to counter. Infiltrators strike in, PW – when they shadow step, steal to them, PW again. If they shadow step back double tap infiltrators strike to teleport back to them, pop haste, PW and dead thief. Can also use your own shadow step to get back in range of them if you’re running low on initiative. The stuns from pw and the immobilize from infiltrators strike are plenty to lock someone down. It’s about movement, lockdowns etc. Rarely used headshot as not worth the initiative unless it was to stop a heal. Beauty of this build is its MUCH better in a team fight as you are not only doing crazy damage you are setting up the rest of your team to spike since the enemy pretty much can’t move.

But if you really want to set someone up for your team to have a feast on, I strongly believe that you are better off with S/D. You don’t only daze your target for 1.5s (in PvP – compare to 0.5s stun of PW) but you also strips boon (using FS) on top of immobilize from IS and cripple from Dancing Daggers.

Daecollo.9578:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If your goal is to hit multiple target, why P/P?

As for doing less damage than Mesmer’s autoattack is subjective since it relies which damage connects and actually dealt damage. Immobile target, sure, Mesmer wins, but hardly anyone will just stand there and take damage.

The funny thing about it is, Mesmer’s have 4 other abilities that do damage, and “Unload.” is bursty, but you have to wait 0.75 seconds after using the skill to use another “Unload”, whilst a Mesmer can use Spatial Surge immediately afterwords.

The reason I said that is because they are both channeled “beam” type attacks, and unload should hit targets that get in the way of it, that is what bullets do.

However, because of the high initiative cost and the wait time, and the fact it doesn’t even go up to par with an ‘autoattacks’ damage, and the fact its the ONLY damaging ability…

Yes, the class needs a revamp, nothing else needs said.

Not so far as revamping the class itself. If the discrepancy is the damage output, no need to touch the other parts of the class.

One thing I disagree with you on is the damage. Unload deals way more damage that Mesmer’s autoattack.

Pistol’s autoattack also deals more damage due to bleeding thant Mesmer’s autoattack.

The only difference is the ability to damage multiple targets, but if that is what you want for a P/P build, then Spec for Ricochet, I guess.

Kryshade.6075:

You guys are crazy if you think S/P isn’t a viable build. I play strictly high level tPvP and I can assure you a well played S/P thief will destroy any other build on tournament play. Most thieves run d/p or d/d. S/P is a fantastic counter to that as the dazed,lockdowns and teleports will destroy most backstabbing thieves. After the haste nerf not so much unfortunately but saying that s/p isn’t viable is just noobish.

IMO it is not viable in comparison to other weapon set.

Daecollo.9578:

Raine Akrune.8416:

Daeqar.8965:

Raine Akrune.8416:

I’ve been playing a S/P thief and beat d/d and d/p thieves all the time in WvW/sPvP.

S/P in WvW…wow, I hope I run into you out in the wild someday. I can always use another sparkly bag.

Although, I could see you catching some glass cannon builds or low skill players flat-footed and blowing them up. Against a high skill player patiently running a balanced build with D/D or D/P, you’d be pretty severely handicapped, though.

One day perhaps, it’ll be fun to teach another cookie cutter thief about thinking outside the box. =)

Yeah, we should all go “P/P.” and do less damage then Mesmer’s autoattack by spamming unload and only being able to hit one target.

If your goal is to hit multiple target, why P/P?

As for doing less damage than Mesmer’s autoattack is subjective since it relies which damage connects and actually dealt damage. Immobile target, sure, Mesmer wins, but hardly anyone will just stand there and take damage.

I only want 50% reduced receiving damage while under the Revealed debuff.

Thank you.

With all honesty, S/P weapon set is really bad where ever you go, especially in WvW and PvP…it’s manageable in PvE, but still frustrating. Dagger off-hand is a must in any dual-wield set.

Nice thread. Here’s my contribs.

Build Name: Tactical S/D (off-set P/P)
Reason for using: Consumption of PvE contents
Changes applied: No changes post update
Considering trying/experimenting with: N/A (New build)

Pre-nerf to stealth, this build can chain daze any target using CnD → Tactical Strike with only 1s window (2s daze, 3s Revealed debuff) for the target to react before getting dazed again. Post-nerf to stealth, the window between dazes is now 2s and the only change I made is to add Flanking Strike in the equation. I typically save Flanking Strike for removing boon, but that 1s extra to window of opportunity is crucial and needs to be evaded or dodged every time. Also popping my Signet of Agility in case I need the extra Endurance for dodge.

Typically, those using the S/D build initiates with IS and that’s really not an ideal approach. Instead, initiate with either Steal or CnD (my Steal btw is spec’d to put me in Stealth – which works very well now post-update since it no longer auto-attacks) that puts you in stealth to begin with the semi-chain daze. In my playstyle, I save IS for getting away since it roots my target giving me a chance to dodge away, heal, then Shadow Return (back to my target) → CnD. As you notice I use IS to get back into the fight rather than using it to get away.

Dodge, evade, and shadowsteps are very good tactical defensive skills. I advice to save Stealth for offensive post-nerf, especially after the previous nerf to Stealth when the mob AI will stop and stare at me while in stealth rather than dropping aggro.

I personally want just a Red/Blue/Green (depending on thier color code) arrow pointing at their heads.

lvis.3824:

~snip~

I wonder if any of you ever tried a full venom based build. ( PvE )
I know i will not be able to deal the amount of dmg i will be doing with full zerker setup + 25/30/0/0/15 , but i am looking for something different.

There are now dmg-meters so i don’t care so much about that, i seek a fun to play build.

I don’t see why a full venom based build would not use ’zerker items when the ’zerger benefits the most with such build.

I used to run 30/0/0/30/10 with Apothecary + Undead Runes + Rabids. A lot of condition damage but it is vey slow at killing anything in comparison to other weaponset.

In any build, there should be a windo of opportunity, and in this case, that’s when Thieves blows their Initiatives right away and wait for recharge. On non-theif professions, there’s the CD to open a window of oppurtunity. Without that window, the profession using the wespon set will be out of balance.

With that said, Death Blossoms is fine as is, and it is a condition-damaged-based skill, not so much as a burst skill.

If you want burst damage, then you are using the wrong skill since certain skill deals a lot of burst damage while stealth.

I personally off-set either P/P or D/D. In a big fights, using D/D off-set, if you master the timing of IF →Death’s Blossom(x3)→Shadow Return, that’s a really fun game play.

This set is very boring to me since you have to rely heavily on your condition to take out the target and often time they are countered by regen or removal.

Two skills in P/D (#3 and #5) are not used while in ranged, thus it renders the weapon set as a failure on the get go. Trying to make P/D works, and it works sometimes, the effect is not significant enough in comparison to other builds, like D/P or even P/P.

I personally failed with the Weapon set more than I can count and that’s why I no longer use it. If you want to stay in ranged, SB and P/P are way better choices.

I find any heal skill that requires attacking counter-intuitive especially when the only way that it is viable is during an increase in attack rate (i.e. quickness).

On top of that, Signet of Malice’s activated ability is horrible in comparison to other Thieve’s heal skills.

Hide in shadows heals for more, plus it removes DoTs, regen, and put you in stealth, which prevents taking more damage.

With that said, I don’t think leeching health will be a good solution since that can be easily abused. So for balance’s sake, the percentage of dmg-for-heal will be really tiny if not buffed (stacking Might will quickly break this skill) and going to be a very unattractive heal skill.

I mean, compare this to Healing Signet…Warrior’s can just stand there and get heal, plus the activated heal, which again, is much better than SoM.

If it were to change though, I rather have it work like Sadist’s Signet of GW1 with a GW2 twist. For example:

Passive: Heal 100 (+ 5…10…15 per condition on target) per second.
Active: Heals 3,275 (+ 5…10…15 per condition on target)

(Note: level 80 numbers)

This way, it ties very well with weapons set that focuses on conditions and matches the name of the skill.

All you really need is 10 pts in BM to have access to the quickness-on-pet-swap and just keep your pet out of combat at all times, then only send them in after activating a signet where they do a burst damage, then call them back.

Pets don’t need to actively DPS., its more important that they stay alive so you get to use the buff from F2. I rather take a partial loss of DPS (really miniscule) rather than having 100% loss of DPS (dead pet). Either way, pet is not engaged in DPS until I told it to.

I ran P/P in the past and I just went with full Berzerker set. But depending on where in PvE you’re willing to go because a balanced set like the Valkyrie maybe even better.

I think the best downed skill is the Warrior’s vengeance specially with Sweet Revenge.

Thief’s down skill can’t even compare to that.

I would personally like to see a more ninja-like-substitution skill when being stompped, leaving a wood log and being teleported away and in stealth instead of being finished.

It can even function like a blocking mechanic that triggers after block.

peter.9024:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

It’s always a choice between dodge-caltrops and dodge-swiftness in some situations. I find dodge-swiftness to be more universal than dodge-caltrops since in PvE it can generate unnecessary aggro.

But most of the time, it’s better to carry a shortbow since the goal is to get away and save your endurance when it is really necessary.

You probably mean dodge might instead of swiftness. Swiftness is the default 5pt trait

I was talking about my choice to either trait Acro or Trick to get either of those effect. And no, I don’t trait for both even if you can.

Boomstin.3460:

KensaiZen.3740:

Just imagine if the pet wasn’t there. Don’t spec for a build that requires the use of the pet. Problem solved.

That doesn’t solve anything. The pet still amounts to certain percent of rangers damage which we can’t properly use at the moment.
Imagine is some other profession had a bug after 7 months since release that made them lose 30 percent of their damage by pretty much default agains’t player targets. Sounds awesome.

Unless you spec for BM, pet do little to no dmg. You lose potential DPS if you allocate a lot of trait points to BM, that’s a given. Pet don’t attack fast enough or hard enough to even count their DPS as a gain/loss. What pet brings to the table is their Pet Skill (F2) and they should always be swapped anyway so the damage is distributed between the pets and so that they also drop aggro.

Sebrent.3625:

~snip ~

It is their job to check if current fixes correct known bugs and to check for additional issues/bugs.

~snip~

I just find it amazing that something as obvious as Mesmer clones not having weapons wasn’t picked up before the patch went live. That’s a blatantly obvious thing.

It’s not that simple. The disappearance of the weapons might be a cause of a chain reaction. The QA might have done their job based on the job order and they approved it. They did the job, but if the bug happens because of the chain of events, usually a lot pops out on live servers, then there’s no way they could’ve predict that.

I found it amazing that the Mesmer spears no longer hit.

I’m still amazed that my target and I can be on an open field and I will (seemingly randomly) receive “obstructed” for some of my shots with my Ranger shortbow.

Perhaps it isn’t the QA isn’t finding them and it’s the devs introducing bugs more quickly than they can fix them.

That is more probable that these other bugs are products of a domino effect after fixing a known bug.

Either way, I’m not impressed with the code quality given that you have what I and many other programmers would assume should be largely (if not completely) unrelated aspects being broken by changing one of them. Seriously, look back at the last patch for Mesmer changes and tell me what their is related to the spear’s hitbox or the Mesmer clones having weapons.

Well it can happen if the code is issuing a query for the weapons and weapon skins and the weapons and weapon skin for the Mesmer depend on this query. So if the query bust, you get the bug, often time, it’s just a simple of misspelling the name or calling the wrong ID. The big change that relates with weapons and skins is the TP item preview.

Boomstin.3460:

danbuter.2314:

I’d love a non-pet ranger. If that is impossible, I’d like the AI for pets to be dramatically improved very soon.

They should have scrapped the pets in beta. I wonder how on earth such a poor implementation of pets slipped through to release?
They can’t scrap pets now, it would be like admitting their own failure. Designers are not usually very eager to admit that :P

But they did admit that there were problems with the Ranger’s pet before release.

They should have just renamed it to Hunter/Tracker/Stalker and scrap the pet as you said.

But I think they wanted the pet to define the profession so they kept it.

The stupidity of the AI is not only limited to Ranger’s pet, this AI controls all other pet/companion/minions. And I have a feeling that the GW2 team is using the GW1 henchman AI, since I am experiencing the same frustration as I did with Alesia. >.<’

^ROFL

That pet is awsome. :P

Rangers requires preparation. This ranges from weapon, pet, utility, elite, position, distance, etc.

Preparation test:
If you are chasing after someone, which pet do you choose?

Since you already have experience with your Warrior, then you know when to melee and not to melee.

Before the Feb 28 stealth update, you can just burst target with D/D and stealth to drop aggro. But after that update, I became a more laid back playing it safe with high crit/critdmg P/P using 30/30/0/10/0…very boring IMO.

I’m changing my build to a bit balance with S/D, valkyrie, 0/30/20/20/0. Someone suggested 0/30/20/20/0 here in the forum and I’m taking it for a test drive using S/D.

It’s always a choice between dodge-caltrops and dodge-swiftness in some situations. I find dodge-swiftness to be more universal than dodge-caltrops since in PvE it can generate unnecessary aggro.

But most of the time, it’s better to carry a shortbow since the goal is to get away and save your endurance when it is really necessary.

ensoriki.5789:

evilapprentice.6379:

Just like I know for a fact every time my shadowshot hits, i’ll be teleported to the player it hit (again, understanding there is a small margin of error with anything), I should be confident that FS works consistently, regardless of things that shouldn’t be affecting the skill itself (my facing, my target moving though still in range, any speed buffs I’ve got on, etc etc etc)

Evil unfortunately this sounds rather silly. The first two aren’t FS specific it’s generally how the game works when it is not baby-sitting.
Some abilities turn you around stupidly and play the game for you (Blurred Frenzy), other’s do not. Reality is those skills that play the game for you, should get flippin checked. Your target moving affecting the accuracy of your hit isn’t FS exclusive even on thief abilities for one. I’m quite confident on FS working. A random dodge will throw it off, but that is true for anything.

That’s what I am trying to explain to him. He notices it in FS because he uses FS, but the root problem may not be FS.

His definition of “consistent” is flawed too.

There are difference between what works, what doesn’t work, what should work and what we expect to work.

Not often that intentions meets expectations. More often good intentions turns horribly bad.

Sebrent.3625:

I was landing FS easily on my engineer guildie without having to use IF. In fact, I was forced to use my skills without setting them up with IF because he quickly learned that IF was my “goto” opener for various combos.

That’s the point of other posters here. Once one learn how the skill work, the expectation changes.

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

S/D weapon set provides the Theif access to a root skill (#2) that serves as a Lead attack and FS as a Follow-up attack. If done that way, as it is intended, it works flawlessly.

If FS doesn’t work any other way, I will not be hasty to call that a design flaw.

There’s no amount of vehicle safety technology can prevent a bad driver from causing an accident.

And there’s no amount of design feature/fix that can prevent a bad player from failing to use the skill properly.

If FS didn’t work any other way, that would be awful design – you might as well just make FS cost 7 init, teleport to the target, root him, then spin and stab stab. FS being more effective with IS is fine, but it still needs to work on its own as well

Every.
Single.
Time.

This where player judgment comes into play. Would I Unload on blocking or obstructed or out of range target? Of course not. Thus, by your own definition, Unload doesn’t work every single time.

But adding player judgment into play, a player will re-position or use a utility skill to achieve a more satisfying result. Player judgment is required using FS, that’s why some players dub it a high-skill skill.

Not most of the time, not if my target is the right size, does or doesn’t have x conditions, isn’t moving, I’m not running a speed buff…..It has to work every time (with of course a margin of error – nothing is truly perfect, I get that).

Imagine if Hundred blades ONLY worked if you Bolo’d or Rush’d first – that would be dumb. Being MORE EFFECTIVE or EASIER TO USE after those skills is fine, but not reliably working properly without them is unacceptable.

HB is more effective if used as a Follow up attack after a rooting Lead attack because you would want your target to savor every single swing.

And yes, I would say HB is very unreliable especially against moving target — funny how it share the same limitation as FS.

What would be cool is changing #2 pistol skill to Reload. Does no damage but cost 3 init to gain 5 init and create a mini-Smoke Screen for 2sec. The thief animation will show that the thief drops the magazine from the pistol and that creates the smoke screen. It will function like a 1sec channeled skill and can be done while moving.

evilapprentice.6379:

The way you perceive the English language to work is not the way the English language actually works.

Everyone but you understood what I was getting at – they know i wanted FS to work, regardless of whether or not the ability itself was the cause, or some secondary factor.

You don’t have to speak for EVERYONE, they can simply read what you posted and make up their own mind.

In fact, since your testing isn’t granular enough, its entirely possible its still the skill that doesn’t work properly – perhaps something in the exact way that FS is coded is the actual cause of the issues you saw in your testing. Neither of us has access to what the server is doing when the code is carried out, so we don’t know. Due to that lack of knowledge, we literally can’t know whats at fault, and have to ask the dev’s to look into any possible cause of the issue, including the ability itself.

You still need to deduce any possibility that is not highly probable and identify the possibilities that has high probability.

Based on your post, you seems to believe that the skill is bugged — all I have been saying is — you don’t know that for sure.

So I’m actually right, and we can’t know if I’m your weird extremely literal context ignoring version of right.

You can claim to be right all you want. But if you really want something to be fixed, you need to be more than just “another kitten y customer demanding that they are right” and provide some evidence that can help the Devs to narrow down the source of the problem.

And reviewing this thread, there seems to be more players who has no problem with FS than those who demands that it needs to be fixed.

S/D weapon set provides the Theif access to a root skill (#2) that serves as a Lead attack and FS as a Follow-up attack. If done that way, as it is intended, it works flawlessly.

If FS doesn’t work any other way, I will not be hasty to call that a design flaw.

There’s no amount of vehicle safety technology can prevent a bad driver from causing an accident.

And there’s no amount of design feature/fix that can prevent a bad player from failing to use the skill properly.

I have a different view on dungeon reward. In my view, the reward reflects the path that requires more effort and the easy paths are just icing on the cake.

But that’s just me.

Lighthammer.3280:

~snip~

The only thing I don’t like about it is that it takes too long for a trivial reward.

Was it fun? Yes. But it is something I never want to do again.

Kajin.5301:

When I saw the thread title I thought it was a bout p/p #3 and sb #3. You know when you end up dodging off cliffs/platforms in fractals thinking you’re about to unload like a gunslinger x-D

I’d be rich if I have a penny every time that happens

evilapprentice.6379:

Analogy time, I suppose.

The power in my house goes out – I give the power company a call.
Me: “Hey, the power in my house is out. Fix it.”
Company: “Sir, we can’t come into your home and redo the wiring.”
Me: “What? No, my house has no power, fix it.”
Company: “Again Sir, we can’t fix the wiring in your house. We do see that a transformer is out in your neighborhood tho”.
Me: “Jesus, yeah, fix it.”
Company: “Well that’s not what you asked us to do, now is it?”

There you go – a conversation that will never happen anywhere ever between 2 people with the barest shred of common sense.

When I said “fix the weaponskill”, I very obviously meant “Fix whatever it is that makes the weaponskill not work consistently and as intended”, just like in my analogy, I said “fix the power in my house”, I meant “fix whatever reason is behind my house not having power” not literally "Fix the power in my house by specifically fixing something in my house. that is the only way i want my power turned back on. I assumed the issue was at the weaponskill level, but my request that it be fixed was a universal one.
Perhaps you have a very literal take on the english language, but I’ve never met someone like that.

This is a case of your words against your words. I quoted what you said and you are saying something very different now.

Your analogy is flawed. Because you can easily say in a different outcome of event that you meant it to be literal.

Also by meaning “fix whatever reason is behind my house not having power” is very different from simply saying “fix the power in my house”.

By saying “fix the power in my house”, you are already providing information that the cause of power outage is in your house. You might perceive it to be that way, but that is just not the case, because using your analogy also, the transformer caused the outtage.

Now having to know that it was the transformer and not your house is causing the power outtage, an investigation would have been done prior to gaining that knowledge that it was the transformer and not you leaving a fork in the microwave.

So, all this time I have been trying to exaplain to you, who suppsed to have the “the barest shred of common sense”, that your perception is not the fact.

That’s like blaming a Tire Store for getting flat tire on your brand new tire every week when you drive over the pot hole everyday. Simply changing your tire will not solve to root problem.

And those who have “the barest shred of common sense” can understand that.

Serjical.9613:

I’ll agree the combat log is a poor source of information but it is what Anet provides us so if anything is ridiculous it’s what they provided us. Who knows perhaps it will be something they improve in the future.

There are other ways to test your hypothesis whether your observation is true or not, but it will require that you have to run some testing.

Your approach that your conclusion is true simply because the combat log says so is ridiculous.

I will give credit to the wiki as it does have a lot of useful information. My example which happened included the wiki was to simply illustrate bugs do occur from time to time contrary to wiki provided information. As a wiki advocate if you felt that my pointing out that example discredits the wiki in its entirety, so be it.

Kinda hard to pull that off when you spit on the whole wiki and may be only a miniscule part of it that was proven inconsistent.

I say, you jump to many conclusions, just like your main post.

Frenk.5917:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

By your description, that’s not a very “organized” group.

In an organized group, every profession knows their role. As for me, and all other thrieves in the group, don’t fight in the front line where you can get AoE to death. Our commander assigned us to do what we do best, infiltrate the front line and take out the casters and the first target on the list are Necros, then Memers.

We follow the commander from the flank and not in the zerg, thus we’re never concern with survival as long as we get the job done. It only takes 3-4 thieves to take out a caster in split seconds, then each summoning the Thieves Guild just to generate choas in this backline.

So yeah, your group needs to be more organized first.

You probably don’t wvwvw a lot. Be aware, I don’t mean to be harsh. In an organized group if you don’t stand on your commander you don’t receive buffs, heals, and you cannot provide blasts. I am able to take out a caster in less than 1 second alone, but that’s ONE caster, what about the other 20? What if they ress him up while he’s downed? Also.. thieves guild? Really? I’m talking about surviving inside organized zerg vs zerg fights, not 2 parties of friends vs 2 parties of pugs.

An organized group run like a “deathball” (quote from a friend) and I’m trying to find a way to stay alive and be useful in that situation.

That’s more like a gang riot to me.

They rez the downed player because you failed to generate chaos behind enemy line, thus your effort was wasted. Even a single Engineer dropping a Big Ol Bomb behind enemy line, preferably on top of the down player, will generate the chaos needed.

But whatever, if you think that is “organized” then so be it. But you have to also accept the fact that it is the reason why you don’t survive even with those precious buffs.

Yes, thieves guild is effective in breaking enemy ranks and weakens the enemy frontline so that the main group can penetrate through.

jportell.2197:

D/P #3 ad P/D #3 should be swapped… Why? Because to access stealth from d/p its better the further you are (seems like) to access it from p/d you need to be melee and p/d burst comes from the stealth skill (d/p has a couple other options inits A/A). So by using #3 on a p/d set up you are able to close gap and set up for stealth.

Anyways Just a thought something I was mulling over.

It seems that you only have a problem with P/D #3 skill and I do too. Although it serves the purpose of keeping you within farther range, it also alienates the most important skill, CnD.

But I disagree on switching it with D/P #3 skill, because that set has a great synergy of skills and I hate to see it changed.

As for P/D#3 skill, I simply don’t know since it is a weapon set of dillema, perhaps the reason I don’t use that set.

Gamblit.5041:

In the Interview with Arenanet’s Dev, Jon Sharp said: " …you don’t have to bring Shortbow to every set to be mobile. We want the Thief out of everybody to be one of the most slippery classes, one of the most mobile classes, kinder like how Elementalist is … "

What could this mean? Which of the weapons set do you think they are talking about?

Looking at every possible weapon set we have right now, p/p come up as the only weapon set that has no mobility at all. What could be changed or added to p/p to make it on pair with a shortbow mobility?

Well, Thieves are being compared to Elementalist in terms of mobility and the only thing that comes to mind is that Thieves will have their own version of Ride the Lightning.

The lower the sun sets, the farther we can travel.

randomfightfan.4091:

Too many times it has gotten me killed because of having a slight delay in casting so I click to cast it again then it insta casts me away and back into the suicide position. This has got to change. I guess at least the immobilize or stun or kd or w/e got cleansed when I went back to die :P

Hmm, I was debating this with my brother the other day and I am still undecided about this.

I agree that it should have delay, but in an aggresive playstyle, I disagree, since you would not want that delay in many occasions.

But if the delay is voted in, I wouldn’t mind it at all, I just need to accomodate the change.

Frenk.5917:

Any suggestions? How do YOU survive inside an organized group? How do you survive in situations in which you are forced to stay with your commander and you can’t rely on your mobility to save yourself?

By your description, that’s not a very “organized” group.

In an organized group, every profession knows their role. As for me, and all other thrieves in the group, don’t fight in the front line where you can get AoE to death. Our commander assigned us to do what we do best, infiltrate the front line and take out the casters and the first target on the list are Necros, then Memers.

We follow the commander from the flank and not in the zerg, thus we’re never concern with survival as long as we get the job done. It only takes 3-4 thieves to take out a caster in split seconds, then each summoning the Thieves Guild just to generate choas in this backline.

So yeah, your group needs to be more organized first.

evilapprentice.6379:

You’re kidding, right? Did anyone else think I meant “Fix FS by literally only changing FS”, or that maybe I meant “fix FS by fixing whatever the reason it bugs out is”
What would I have to gain by being so granular? I just want to the skill to work consistently correctly- whatever it is thats preventing it, fix that thing. Jeez.

Have you forgotten this already?

evilapprentice.6379:

Oh cool, I’ll specifically dedicate a utility to make one of my poorly designed and poorly functioning weapon skills work! That’s much easier than expecting Anet to fix the ability so it works in and of itself, with no outside help, like every other single weapon skill in the game was designed to do.

If you don’t like my suggestion, feel free to express your opinion without being condescending or an kitten. If you can’t do that, do not bother.

Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-should-ignore-block/first#post1654232

I say, you became unconfortable in that position that you have to change your stance.

Serjical.9613:

I posed my question because I looked at my combat log and seen his opening single hits doing same amount of damage on two very different builds one being tanky and one being glass cannon. Who knows maybe it was a lucky crit or whatever but I figured I would ask on the forum as perhaps there was a bug someone knows about.

Yes I’m well aware I didn’t bring forth screenies as it never occurred to me at the time to take any.

Well you only have your combat log as your source of information which is very inadequate in illustrating what happened before you pop.

I suspect that you have suffered from multiple stack of Vulnerability and a Thief can apply at least 5 stacks on a Crit hit (sometimes more stacks). That’s 5% increase dmg, and if the thief specs Exposed Weakness, another +10% increase dmg, then all other dmg source like Crit Dmg mod, etc.

May not be seen often, but possible under those circumstances.

On a flip side.

You seem the type who believes everything a wiki would say and would have argued on Anet behalf that condi duration % on runes and weapons work “as stated by wiki”. It took some testing by people to prove it doesn’t work and later Anet confirmed. Thus proving bugs DO happen and sometimes things DON’T work as stated.

Give credit to those who spend their precious time to provide information to you. If you don’t believe the wiki, then so be it. But the wiki is the best source for this information and I know that the editors there takes pride of the accuracy of the information shown in the wiki — given of course that you understand how those information are gathered.

Besides, nobody ever claim that bugs NEVER happen. You just have to come up with proof, like those “people”, to convince everyone interested that it is in fact a bug.

Judging something based on your combat log is ridiculous.

ps. I’m anxiously awaiting another Épeen measuring “You’re wrong!” reply. lol

No need to state the obvious. I’m sure that many readers agree on the same fact.