Guild Wars 2

HELLruler.4820:

Puandro.3245:

HELLruler.4820:

Hum… there’s a problem there. Warriors have more HP and defense, so in theory, thieves can deal more damage, but in a real fight, warriors will survive longer/stop less to heal, which means more DPS

You must not do high level fractals since you think the armor/health will save you from damage when both classes are glasss cannons.

But what’s the situation being considered here? My example is perfect if you are not going to move and just use your skills.
On the other hand, if you add dodges, kiting and the other mechanics GW2 offers, I’m totally wrong

Even though you can’t think of other situations, I won’t judge that ability. I just hope you become a better thorycrafter if you want to

The theory assumes a tank and spank situation, thus it’s a theory. But if you want to add reality into the calculation, you can still use the spreadsheet like I did — I added dodge delay into the calculation to see how much it will drop my DPS.

The spreadsheet is a great tool for theory-crafting and base on your post, its seems that not everyone knows how to use it.

Daecollo.9578:

Please switch Last Refuge with Infusion of Shadow, Last Refuse should be an optional trait for people with no other access to stealth.

Ok that made me giggle, just shows what your subconscious thinks about this trait, lol

If IoS is a minor, there will be problems with perma-blind in combination with Cloaked in Shadows and OP condition removal in combination with Shadow’s Embrace.

We don’t need to give Anet anymore reason to nerf our profession. Although the intention is sound, this “solution” will bring more problem for us.

This statement …

JakobGW.5730:

Without initiative regen, using too many skills will nerf your damage by 10% from First Strikes. Not only does DA not have the additional initiative to easily stay above the threshold of 6 initiative, but it also doesn’t have any initiative regen. When you use one C&D with ANY other skill, you’ve just nerfed your damage by 10% unless you have a good way of getting it back quickly. DA doesn’t have that ability. Trickery does.

..contradicts this statement…

JakobGW.5730:

It’s funny you posted this. Your reason is the exact opposite why I spec Trickery. I don’t spam skills. Watch my video for just 2 minutes. You’ll see that most of my kills are after simply using a mere 6 initiative (mostly from C&D). That’s the strength of the line: not using initiative.

…so, either I need Trickery so I won’t run out of Initiative or I’m simply keeping my initiative in reserve which defeats the purpose of spec-ing into Trickery in the first place.

I agree with your first statement since that is where I stand, but I disagree with your second statement.

Doesn’t make any sense to spec for Trickery when you’re not going to take advantage of max initiative and initiative regen.

Also, please see the thread about skill coefficents and damage multipliers. I will link it if you can’t find it. There you will see that FS actually does MORE damage than the autoattack chain.

There’s a really nice spreadsheet that you can use to compare the two and the difference in damage is roughly 3k in favor of Sword #1. Beside AA is free, no init cost.

I don’t know about you, but if I have to spend only 4 initiative for an unblockable boon strip, one second evade, and 9k damage, I’ll spend the 4 initiative. That, to me, doesn’t sound like merely a “utility.”

There are 2 utilities in FS, evade and boon strip, which I find more valuable to use appropriately than simply for damage. If you’re fighting against someone without boon, more reason to save it for tactical purposes.

EDIT: Here, I’m going to post it anyways, just to make things easier for you. =)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Skill-Coefficients-for-all-the-Thief-weapons/first#post467096

Just use the spreadsheet found here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-The-REAL-maximum-DPS-thief/first#post1895342

JakobGW.5730:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

25 in DA also receives bonus from First Strikes and Executioner, so you’re only chip is Lead Attacks. Sure Lead Attacks grants you 15% dmg boost, but 25 in DA gives you 20% dmg boost (Exp Weak + Improv) on top of +150 Power and +15% condition duration (compare to 10/30/0/0/30 build) difference. Then add First Strikes and Executioner to the equation and you got a lot of dmg boost.

I’ve tested, and so have others, that Improv does NOT increase the damage of the thief, only the damage of the bundle:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Question-about-new-Improvisation

There are conflicting reports that it doesn’t increase the bundle’s damage either. Others believed it to be bugged since not all stolen items deal damage.

But if your findings are true, then I will run another test tonight then append my findings to that forum. AFAIK, it works as stated but it seems that it warrants a more recent testing.

JakobGW.5730:

~snip~
At full initiative, Lead Attacks can give you 15% damage increase. Thus, one way of taking advantage of the line is not by spending initiative on skills, which is what you are focusing on, but by conserving initiative on lower cost skills while regenerating initiative at a quicker rate.

When you combine Lead Attacks with First Strikes (10% damage when above 6 initiative) and Executioner (20% damage increase), you become a powerhouse at 50% health.
~snip~

25 in DA also receives bonus from First Strikes and Executioner, so you’re only chip is Lead Attacks. Sure Lead Attacks grants you 15% dmg boost, but 25 in DA gives you 20% dmg boost (Exp Weak + Improv) on top of +150 Power and +15% condition duration (compare to 10/30/0/0/30 build) difference. Then add First Strikes and Executioner to the equation and you got a lot of dmg boost.

Compare that to a dwindling damage boost given by Lead Attacks every time you spent initiative. Every use of CnD is -6% from your dmg output. That’s just too much restriction in keeping your DPS higher.

Everyone knows that the #1 weapon chain by S/D is pretty powerful. By using it, you’re conserving initiative and dishing some good damage. FS, when used at the right time, can easily do 6k – 9k (watch my videos) for 4 initiative! That’s an awesome damage to initiative ratio. When I want to get in close to my target, it only costs me 3 initiative to do so; but when I combine IS + Steal, with Kleptomaniac, it costs me nothing.

You just proved what I said to be true. Anyone spec-ing into Trickery is really only after the Initiative boost. With 25 in DA, your first Steals gives you a +20% dmg boost right off the bat because of Exposed Weakness and Improvisation. If I use my FS, my dmg doesn’t drop by 4%. When I use IS, my dmg doesn’t drop by 3% even if spec-ing into Trickery gives me a refund. When I use CnD, my dmg doesn’t drop by 6%, etc.

~snip~
But I can guarantee you that you do not have the mobility needed to fully take advantage of the conserved initiative damage increase with any D/x build because you have to spend so much more initiative to even get close to your target and not die.

It is ideal for D/x because that initial first attack is boosted so high that a back stab will really leave a mark. The initiative boost is not for decoration, it’s for spending, and S/D is not a spender. A D/x build deals more damage when spending the initiative than what Lead Attacks’ negative boost dmg reduction. That’s why putting points into Trickery will benefit D/x more than S/D.

Example: Using Shadow Shot for 4 initiative ~snip~

That’s not a very good example and you know it. :/

Let’s look at S/D: ~snip~

Further evidence that spec-ing Trickery is mainly for initiatives. And it seems that Lead Attack is starting to concern you also.

Trickery with S/D just works and it works very well. I’ve been experimenting with it since November and I can tell you that it’s a very viable and effective way of playing the thief. People have different play styles, but for me, S/D is fun, and I enjoy the challenge of thinking the exact opposite of the majority of the thief population: use less skills for more damage!

That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m simply saying that if your goal is damage output for S/D, you’re better off not spec-ing Trickery. But if your goal is max Initiative and Initiative gain, then spec Trickery.

The only reason someone will spec for Trickery is when they like spamming their weapon skills, rather than tactically using each one. If you are using your weapon skills tactically, the base initiative of 12 points is more than enough, which no need to spec for Trickery. The bulk of the S/D dmg is really coming from Sword #1’s third strike, which means the rest of the weapon skills in the set are for utility. Some might find this boring but that’s what tactics is all about.

In a build of 10/30/0/0/30, survivability is totally abandoned and less likely to stay in a fight longer than a build that spec for either SA or Acro or both.

Puandro.3245:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Just as I thought, by adding just one dodge to the rotation, the DPS dropped by about 2k DPS.

@Puandro.3245
Great spreadsheet and kudos to the effort on putting this together.

One tiny problem though, when I was adding one of the Delays in the DPS calculator, the numbers were not showing properly.

The formula is correct but the position of the cells were not. The location of “Damage per Second” and “Skill Information” under Delays is one column off. After making this adjustment, the values under the DPS calculator were corrected.

You are right the delays where not actually delaying the dps, this is due to the fact that i built the thief calculator differently since its initiative and not CD based. I fixed it though.

Thanks for the quick fix. I was using the delay in place for dodging which is a drop in DPS every time a dodge is performed.

That’s GW2 tool tips for you. To be honest, the tool tips in GW1 is 1,000,000,000% better than in GW2.

Drawing Guy.3701:

Vincent, 30 trickery is not for the initiative (though it plays nicely with the T3 minor) – it is to turn your steals into shutdowns. In PvE I run 25/30/0/0/15 because simply said you’re right about it being the best DPS and I could care less about shutting down a trash mob.

That’s my take on it also. If you ever want to shutdown anything in PvE, you’re better off with blind, which is only 10pts in SA rather than spending 30pts for a 1s stun. Besides, as I said, you’re already using S/D and the sneak attack is all you need if you ever want to disable your target.

If that is the only reason why you are maxing Trickery then it’s a waste since you can convert those trait points into damage.

Still didn’t answer the question why would you want to spend 30pts if you already have access to disabling skill even without spec-ing any traits using S/D.

Thrill of the Crime from a steal gives a nice DPS boost and the init minors are enough to keep me above 6 initiative for the extra 10% with active use of my #2.

25pts in DA achieves more than that since you can only steal every 35s. Exposed Weakness covers the 10% dmg boost since your target will have a condition until it dies. If you want another 10% dmg boost, you can spec for Improvisation that gives you 10% dmg boost as long as you don’t use your stolen property.

I crit 3-4k with my first two sword attacks and over 5-6k on my third. By swapping to 10/30/0/0/30 I give up about 500 damage max per swing on a standard target. What I gain is that my steals now strip two boons giving them to myself and those close around me (and this has turned many fights for me, especially on guardians), and a 1s daze (as you should take steal daze, not initiative on heal) turning my steal into an interrupt that gives me about 2 seconds to whale on the target (after adding the restarted attack animations to the target).

This is solely a PvP perspective, which I agree. But the OP is talking about PvE and WvW. In WvW, you’ll get better boons from other professions than what you can provide with TotC.

What this does is I do less on naked targets, more on buffed because I can make them naked without the expensive #3. I can daze them from any direction. I shave a little over 6 seconds off that powered up steal (over the 15 points I had, it’s 13.5s if you hadn’t traited). I still get 10%+ attack bonus from Lead Attacks making the only real DPS loss from sundering strikes and 150 power. On soft targets you will barely notice as you wouldn’t have landed many vulns anyways, and if you have others stacking the vulns on the harder targets, you actually hit just as hard at full initiative as the 5% more attack covers the power difference.

The same argument is true about your powered up steal if other player stacking the buffs as well as conditions. A lot of what you posted doesn’t really support the reasoning behind why someone will put 30pts into Trickery. If damage is your goal, then it is more reasonable to spec for DA. Otherwise, allocating for Trickery is really all about Initiatives.

Give it a try before you knock it Vincent. :p

I’m not knocking it. I am simply asking for any reason why someone would consider Trickery with an S/D weapon set when a D/x is way better for this spec.

Your explanation, although understandable, still not convincing enough since there are other avenues where you can get better results.

eldain stenlund.4306:

I dont get the name on this class.

There is nothing “guardy” about it.
You cant actively guard your friends, due to long CDs.

The name “guardian” is not about guarding, it’s derived from the sense of a caretaker. Just like a legal guardian.

And the hp base ?

My warrior in full DPS gear. have 22 k hp.

My guardian in full defense gear. Power / though / vital. have 17 k hp…

Seriously ?

To make a fair comparison, you need to consider effective health rather than base HP since it will mislead you into thinking the way you are thinking now.

Guardians have a passive Block and Health Regen which adds up to improve their base HP. For each x damage that is blocked, that is equivalent to a +x in their base HP.

And the traits doesnt seem to work as they should either.
I get the Improvement in 30 p precision tree. you should double the dmg reduction.
It still says onlyy 10% reduced dmg.

Guardian ??

I would assume that you are talking about Signet of Judgment. The tool tip is not updated when you spec for Perfect Inscription and the +2% to the passive may not be much but in conjunction with +33% damage reduction from protection, that’s a solid 45% damage reduction.

There is nothing he can do to be called “guard”

Guard and guardian are 2 different things. A guardian is not a guard, but a custodian or caretaker.

When i played swtor, i played juggernaut.
Now that class actually had an active Guard option to protect your friends.
(where you took 30 % of dmg).

Why use a skill similar to that in SWTOR when you can just give everyone toughness (Strength in Numbers) and health regen at all times (Battle Presence)?

Also “Save yourselves” transfer all condition to you.

It had a Slow attack, to let your friends get away, or keep enemy close.
It had a push attack, to interupt, and save your friends.

etc.

Hammer and Staff has Wards that are impassable for the enemy. Sanctuary is a great skill to save your friend. “Retreat” are great to help your friends get away. Shield of Absorption is a great push back and AoE heal.

What The Hell is a guardians role in this game ??
Dance support ??

A caretaker.

And symbols..
Why do i place those crap on the ground ?? It should be an aura.
In pvp. people dont want to stand still in your little fine AoE…

Symbols in PvP is great when taking/defending a capture point.

It seems that you are too caught up with what a “guardian” really mean in terms of the definition of the word instead of the definition of the role. The common misconception is mostly based on the player’s bias on what they think what the profession should do rather than basing on how the developer designed the profession.

If you set aside your bias and receive the profession with an open mind, you will understand why such profession is designed that way. If you cannot, then your bias will always be the barrier blocking you from understanding any of the professions.

I think it also deals damage if I’m not mistaken which will equate to having a Dancing Dagger bouncing around while you’re in stealth.

EDIT:
According to wiki, it deals around 500 dmg and can crit.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil_of_Hydromancy

lol very nice. I like this kind of play style.

I used to run a Condition build also using the same rune (undead), but turning it to a bunker is just brilliant.

RashanDale.3609:

S/D has enough mobility as it is that adding more dodges is simply overdoing it. And if you need to put points into Trickery, then I guess S/D is not the right weapon set for your play style.

do you have an actual argument why trickery is apparently so bad for S/D?

Trickery gives more Initiative that S/D simply doesn’t really need.

Just like putting points into Acrobatic to be able to have an extra dodge. That extra dodge will simply sit there and not contributing because S/D doesn’t need extra mobility while an extra damage is always active.

Trickery is the same. If you are using S/D and think that you need more Initiatives, then what I’m suggesting is you’re better off with D/x that will definitely take advantage of the extra initiative. Otherwise, you’re either wasting Initiative on unnecessary weapon skills, or that extra Initiative just sits there and not contributing.

Here’s a question though, what rotation are you using that an extra Initiative is required for you to put points into Trickery?

JakobGW.5730:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And if you need to put points into Trickery, then I guess S/D is not the right weapon set for your play style.

I run 10/30/0/0/30.

I can tell you that S/D definitely fits my play style. Ask my victims. =)

What are you doing that you need 30pts into Trickery?

Just as I thought, by adding just one dodge to the rotation, the DPS dropped by about 2k DPS.

@Puandro.3245
Great spreadsheet and kudos to the effort on putting this together.

One tiny problem though, when I was adding one of the Delays in the DPS calculator, the numbers were not showing properly.

The formula is correct but the position of the cells were not. The location of “Damage per Second” and “Skill Information” under Delays is one column off. After making this adjustment, the values under the DPS calculator were corrected.

kevkelsar.9507:

This video shows a small taste of what my current build can do. It’s a Flamethrower/Rifle build that mainly uses turrets for the other two utility slots. However, when not needed, I switch them out for gadgets and/or elixirs depending on the situation. Armor, weapon, accessories, and traits are given in the description. I took Nakoda’s build as a base and modified a bit from there.

I have my Eng use the same weapon/kit for the longest time now. But I’m phasing out from using turrets since it really bugs me when trying to pick up loot and picking up the turret instead. :/

I use the following healing and utilities;
- Med Kit
- FT
- Tool Kit
- Slick Shoes

I find Slick Shoes hilarious seeing my target slip and fall while I burn them to death.

Having 10/30/x/x/x IMO is totally gimping the damage of the Sword. I can’t make myself to pass up Exposed Weakness on top of keeping 10 stacks of Vulnerability. I guess you can change everything else, but if you want to actually kill something instead of just dancing around and hiding, 25 in DA and 30 in CS is a must.

S/D has enough mobility as it is that adding more dodges is simply overdoing it. And if you need to put points into Trickery, then I guess S/D is not the right weapon set for your play style.

I like stealing fear from a Necro because I can keep the first one I’ve stolen, wait for Steal to get off cooldown, use the first fear, Steal from the Necro again, use fear again — chain fear is awesome.

iNaddict.8021:

I would have to disagree with you there though. I maintain that no matter how big of numbers you see.. a thief backing off to recuperate is a thief doing 0 dps.. i would at least go with cond removal and shadow protection in the SA tree to be able to stay in the fight..

The problem is that no matter how good you are.. without toughness or vit.. when you get hit.. (and you will.. even if its just once) you go SPLAT.. and now a liability for your team because you need to rez or help get rezzed..

I agree with this.

@OP
Rotations only apply if you can actually stay in melee range to rinse and repeat.

You should incorporate “your heal, projectile blocks, blind, protection, and most importantly dodges” into your rotation and see the REAL DPS numbers out of your rotation.

I bet it won’t be as stellar.

I’m sorry but I hardly notice any Rangers in WvW, not that they don’t exist, it’s just that…hmm how should I put this…they are non-threat and non-priority.

I don’t waste my time on easy targets, I leave those to my team mates, I always target the ones that will give a challenge.

There was a Necro in WvW last night that actually got me irritated — never knew that fear can last so long.

I agree with power/crit/crit dmg. The conditions from SB are just bonus damage.

ShoeMoney.5249:

So my whole point kind of got lost.

You can read about other people’s builds and watch youtube videos forever but dueling for me is what has made me a very good pvp/wvw player.

Thats all I was trying to say.

The point of the post is not lost, because everyone who played thief knows that we need to get those timings down and find our rhythm may it be from dueling or just running random PvP a lot. So that’s kind of a given since everyone agrees on that matter.

You also posted builds and an image of your thief, so that is also up for discussion.

The build is not what beat you, because everyone has access to that information, instead it’s the dedication and hard work of that thief. To make 4s seems like “nanosecond” to you is a sign of a brilliant thief indeed.

As for the builds and tutorial, all you have to do is search. There are also a lot of most recent postings of builds.

EDIT: Here’s a link to a forum with links to guides – enjoy
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Guide-to-Thief-Guides/first

Maugetarr.6823:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

Glad it works for you! I rarely build without 30 in SA myself. One question though, why 30/30/0/10/0 and not 25/30/0/15/0? Not a criticism, just curious!

He wanted Mug, Sundering, and Dagger Training — that’s why.

Typically 25/30/x/x/x is for non-Dagger builds.

Ok, I just thought if the fight is over in a matter of seonds, the extra dodge may decide the battle over sundering strikes.

I would think it’s an insurance policy just in case the fight took longer than expected. Extra dodge will make the fight last even longer so if you want to end an overdued fight, I think you’re better off with Sundering.

randomfightfan.4091:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

Glad it works for you! I rarely build without 30 in SA myself. One question though, why 30/30/0/10/0 and not 25/30/0/15/0? Not a criticism, just curious!

He wanted Mug, Sundering, and Dagger Training — that’s why.

Typically 25/30/x/x/x is for non-Dagger builds.

You don’t need sundering for dagger build. Sundering is a prolonged fight trait. He’s a burst thief. Sundering is pretty much useless for him. Panic strike would be over 9000 times better. 4s immobilize (so those heart seeker spams can’t be dodged) vs 1% more damage to your burst before you run away. When I saw 30 in da I just assumed it was panic, didn’t even look. Now that I’ve looked at what they are I can safely say the traits are quite junk. Sorry op but they are. I suggest looking up other builds, it would make you a much better thief.

Don’t chew my head, I’m just stating where he allocated his points.

Maugetarr.6823:

Glad it works for you! I rarely build without 30 in SA myself. One question though, why 30/30/0/10/0 and not 25/30/0/15/0? Not a criticism, just curious!

He wanted Mug, Sundering, and Dagger Training — that’s why.

Typically 25/30/x/x/x is for non-Dagger builds.

+10 Toughness = +10 Armor
+10 Vitality = 100 HP

So depending on the damage threshold, either one is valuable. There was a discussion about which is better and the concensus agreed that Vitality should be prioritized over Toughness — even more so in the case of Guardians.

For me, the best balance is 2600 Armor and 20k HP.

Shelter has 2 parts: Blocking and healing. If a skill bypassed the blocking part to interrupt your healing, the skill is not necessarily interrupted nor if you interrupted the skill yourself, by dodging for example, unless a combat text shows “Interrupted”. Otherwise it goes on full recharge.

Sniping skills is definitely in the game and this had been suggested many times before. In fact, there’s a concept art floating around showing a female thief with a rifle.

So yeah, I, too, am hopeful.

brickforlife.1364:

If any of you thief pros can recommend me a build or some opinions, combos or tactics that’d be super.

I wouldn’t call myself “pro” but I have been fine tuning my S/D build for a while now. Here are the facts on my build.

Build:
25/30/15/0/0

Utilities:
- Shadow’s Refuge
- Roll for Initiative
- Signet of Shadow

Runes:
- Lyssa

Sigils:
- Paralyzation
- Peril

Key Traits:
- Side Strike
- Executioner
- Cloaked in Shadow

Main Stats:
- Critical Damage
- Condition Duration

Play style:
- The goal is control, not burst. The main stats insures that my Sword AA is crit-ing for 3k-4k (or more) by maintaining 10+ stacks of vulnerability debuff at all times.

- It is very important to anticipate your opponent’s movement so that you won’t waste your resources. Flanking Strike is not for damage — use it only to strip boons or evade attacks in case your endurance is low.

- Infiltrator strike is for positioning and evading. Always position your Shadow Return (white circle) behind your target by turning them around.

- Cloak and Dagger is for blinding (Trait: Cloaked in Shadows) a big attack.

- Basilisk Venom should only be used when target is below 50% for a smooth finish with Executioner and since using an Elite skill triggers Lyssa (6).

Optional:
- Remap your skills. I have the following keymaps;
1 – Steal
2 – CnD
3 – Flanking Strike (same)
4 – Hide in Shadows (or whatever heal skill you prefer)
Q – Roll for Initiative
E – Infiltrator’s Strike
F – Signet of Shadows

- Also I have been swtiching the 15 points between Acrobatics and Shadow Arts for quite sometime now and I still haven’t decided which one I prefer most. But so far, Shadow Arts works with my playstyle better because of Cloaked in Shadows. I miss Power of Inertia and Feline Grace from Acrobatics though. It’s up to your which you prefer most.

Disclaimer:
This is subject to change. In fact, I have changed this many many times already trying to find the sweet spot. This build will not fit everyone’s playstyle.

I personally cannot play that build well. I tried it before and it’s just too fragile for me — making a lot of mistakes.

But nice to see that your hard work paidoff.

Grimwolf.7163:

Maugetarr.6823:

I’d like to see the Engi give you overcharged shot like you get from some PvE mobs. The you could overcharged shot>infiltrators signet for some control.

Ohhhh, now that would be awesome. Throw Net would be really useful as well. I’d prefer either one.

It can be random from a list of items. It’d be also nice to steal Elixirs and Grenades.

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Decked.8274:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

No thank you. The gunk gives Chaos Armor.

Chaos Armor has NOTHING to do with Engineers.

err?

The connection is between the gunk and the Eng.

Once used, the connection is between the gunk and the combo field.

Chaos armor’s connection is between the combo field and the combo finisher.

He means thematically, engineers cannot summon ethereal fields, which are used to generate chaos armor. That’s part of the mesmer’s class identity.

But Eng is not the one summoning the ethereal field, the combination of the gunk and finisher is.

Decked.8274:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The connection is between the gunk and the Eng.

There is no connection between the gunk and the engineer.
Do you usually see engineers throwing gunk? I dont.
Do you see them throwing nets? Yes, Net Shot / Net Wall

From the dictionary:

gunk
: filthy, sticky, or greasy matter

example
The engine was all full of gunk.

Link: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gunk

As you can see, there is a connection. But why would a combo field give a Chaos Armor, I have no idea — Anet has to answer that.

Regardless of the logic behind it, I like the chaos armor.

WereDragon.6083:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Shadow trap is useful in WvW. I use it to over-extende while defending a gate.

All you have to do is have an enemy trigger it close to the side entrance, then over extended as far as possible. When things gets rough, you can activate it to instant teleport out of harm’s way.

Another trap that I like is Ambush and pulling my target into it using Scorpion Wire.

You really just have to be creative with the traps.

Yes but creative doesn’t mean effective.

Effectiveness is subjective to what you’re trying to accomplish.

Traps are of no value other than doing fun and silly things, and IMO, it’s very effective.

Not every skills has to be viable. I don’t see any changes that will make players pick any of the traps over Caltrops without making them over-powered.

Shadow trap is useful in WvW. I use it to over-extende while defending a gate.

All you have to do is have an enemy trigger it close to the side entrance, then over extended as far as possible. When things gets rough, you can activate it to instant teleport out of harm’s way.

Another trap that I like is Ambush and pulling my target into it using Scorpion Wire.

You really just have to be creative with the traps.

Decked.8274:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

No thank you. The gunk gives Chaos Armor.

Chaos Armor has NOTHING to do with Engineers.

err?

The connection is between the gunk and the Eng.

Once used, the connection is between the gunk and the combo field.

Chaos armor’s connection is between the combo field and the combo finisher.

Zikory.6871:

I would have to agree with Sir Vincent, though the only thing I don’t like about the Ele item is its melee. Oh if I could throw that!

I typically use what I’ve stolen ASAP. I can’t imagine myself holding unto those gunks, whatever it is, for too long.

Decked.8274:

Here’s the suggestion:
– Replace Engineer’s stolen skill Throw Gunk with Throw Net

No thank you. The gunk gives Chaos Armor.

- Replace Elementalist’s stolen skill Ice Shard Stab with Use Staff

No thank you. 10s Chilled against an Elementalist is perfect as is.

Daeqar.8965:

It’s a big deal in WvW when mobs continue to chase or stand on top of stealthed characters. Mobs tip off players which way a thief went. Downed #3… Ambient mobs often play a significant role in the outcome of fights.

I’m somewhat split about this one. I do agree that the mobs tip off players but you can also have the same effect with a single-target channeled skill.

GuildWarsPlayer.5608:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If you approach and study any profession with an open mind, it doesn’t really matter what profession it is.

I hear you. It just seems some professions are geared for certain types of play style.

In open PvE, playstyle is not that much important — you just do what you find to be fun.

Of course in serious situations, you need to make some serious considerations.

For example, I soloed a Guardian and Warrior to 80 relatively easy where as I’m currently at level 50 with a Mesmer ( soloing pve ) and its been brutal but fun.

I soloed my Thief and 100% map completion and doing so is also relatively easy.

If you just give any profession a chance, you’d find that each one has their own way of clearing the same content. The ease factor may be with my Guardian, but the fun factor is still with my Thief.

I also have a Mesmer and I find GS Mesmer to be very boring, but that’s my opinion. I think I need to regear and pick up a Sword and a Torch to spice things up.

I once saw a SB Thief in WvW who’s really good at using a SB making him hard to catch, shadowstepping everywhere and shooting cluster bombs in stealth. Very annoying and very effective for harrassing but it didn’t really made a lot of damage.

In PvE, shortbow is fun kitting mobs around your Caltrops and Choking Gas.

AikijinX.6258:

*How would you feel about reverting the aggro table in WvW/Pve?

In WvW, the aggro table don’t matter.

In PvE, I like how it is now. I never like the fact that mob resets when I go into stealth.

*Do you feel like it makes sense to be in down state half way across the map, and still get potential aggro from mobs?

No it doesn’t. The Dev needs to break the leash and drop all aggro after certain time/distance.

*Should we or should we not take in to consideration that if aggro table is reverted rangers primarily and necromancers(minion mancers) will have a hard time trailing us?

Pets are squishy and buggy, I never really consider this since giving them a hard time is a good thing — but I’m not for reveting back, I like the way it is now — just fix the leashing.

If you approach and study any profession with an open mind, it doesn’t really matter what profession it is.

S/P
Pro: has the most damage output when trying to take down Siege Engines and Gates. This is the only time that Pistol Whip shines in WvW.

Con: I personally won’t use S/P in any other situation. Pistol whip is clanky, often misses, when fighting other players.

S/D
Pro: very good at taking out players. Has access to stealth and boon removal. My auto-attacks deals 2k-3k crit damage using non-berserker weapon.

Con: I can only auto-attack structures and since we cannot crit or bleed/poison against structures, it does very little damage.

In WvW, I switch around several weapon sets depending on the situation.

S/D – is my general weapon set of choice
S/P – used vs structures using Pistol Whip (mini-100blades)
D/P – pursuit/ambush situation
P/P – taking a Supply Camp
SB – defending the walls

I hate this camera behavior also and it’s really bad for the eyes. A lot of jumping puzzles with tight spaces are simply impossible for me without losing my dinner in the process.

At least give us an option to lock the camera so that those who like it wont be affected.

Potato Slayer.3107:

GW1 had short recharged elites that you could build your character around, depending on how you wanted to develop your play style and build. Many could be used regularly, such as Glimmer of Light or Searing flames or Dragon slash. That is what I liked about GW1 which I wish they would of incorporated into GW2. For those of you unfamiliar with GW1 GW1eliteskills

The Elite skills found in GW1 were added into GW2 as a special skill.

Example:
Eviscerate – GW1 costs 8 Adrenal – GW2 costs 3 Adrenal as a Burst Skill

And there are others scattered around every profession.

In GW2, it seems that Anet wants the Elite Skills to be a scale-tipper rather than just another powerful skill.

Azura.4172:

And here you are tear my post apart for what purpose? Are you trying to prove that I am wrong, I fail, I should apologize? Because You are a Lv80 Forum Warrior? That you need your daily Forum battle XP?

I don’t expect people to support this idea, but I also don’t expect people to argue about something irrelevant like you. But, you know, people do whatever they want when they are bored. So go ahead, farm away your Forum XP in this thread. Get your grumpiness out of the day so you can sleep at night.

I proposed an method of IDEA for those who complain about OP or not OP for all classes, and you are here to argue with me in terms of facts and internet argument? You are right Sir Forum Warrior the 3rd Lv80.5. I don’t have proof on how or why Anet nerfed Thief this badly from the start, but I do have proof that I am willing to defend for the class that I love.

While you are here spending you lovely time to level up your Forum Warrior XP with me, I am going to stand by my idea, and I will tell every single “QQ omg OP” person that comes to me in game or out to not kitten off, but go try out the class, and show me how OP it is. And when I am convinced, I will gladly join the Nerf camp to call for self nerf for any class that I play.

Good day, and keyboard away your pain.

You see, you have just illustrated that there is no way to convince anyone to support your idea — neither will the QQs will ever manage to convince you.

If you don’t see what I’m trying to tell you, then good luck in your endeavor.

FYI, I am also defending the profession I love from people like you who gives us a bad name by behaving the way you are behaving now.

You demand proof yet you have nothing to show for it. Isn’t that a double standard?

Azura.4172:

If no one on the internet would even try to convince others something, then how did Thieves end up at where we are today? Because somebody is convinced by the amount of QQ and rage after the release that thief is broken, thief is OP, thief needed a nerf. And someone is convinced enough to actually do soemthing about it. And now, someone is also convinced the 4s reveal is a bad idea after culling fix, going back to 3s for PvE/WvW.

That’s hearsay — you have no proof nor any substancial evidence to support that it was the “amount of QQ” was the main reason that convinced Anet to nerf the thief.

The burden of proof is in your court.

How about it?

Oh no, I am not trying to covince anyone here, I want them come to convince me. If they are not going to try to do that, then I can just dismiss their stupid comment easily by saying go make a (class) and show me how OP you are.

Well, you’re not doing a good job trying to convince us to present a convincing argument so that we can convince you.

They might not be trying to convince others, but they sure are doing it unintentionally.

Then let us all “unintentionally” convince others. If you believe that is the reason, then it might be a very effective method on convincing others.

Your way, by the way, already failed. Just so you know.

ZenonSeth.5739:

SpaceCowboy.1398:

Einlanzer has been bring this up regarding Pistol #1 practically since the launch of the game (read: a long while)
[snip]

On the one hand, that’s great – Einlanzer has noticed this and I’m glad he’s brought it up, and we shouldn’t let it go unfixed.

On the other hand, if he’s been bringing it up since near-launch, for such a long time, and it’s not fixed yet, it gives me very little hope that it will be fixed… /sigh

It will get fixed…eventually. Just that, according to Anet, more pressing matters are bumping these issues to the bottom of their list.

If a thief can bypass the wall, then it is not a thief issue but a wall issue or a hacking issue.

The player is exploiting, not the thief. That player can easily use any profession if they are indeed using a hack.

I guess if you mess somthing up and revert it back — it becomes good news. :/

They shouldn’t have done it in the first place.

But QQ is not about proving a point or to present supporting evidence.

If such action has to be taken, it’s no longer a QQ but a valid argument.

OP completely missed the point.