Guild Wars 2

Everything tastes like chicken. Every other flavors are simple fabrication of your mind to classify the things your put in your mouth.

Cypher speaks the truth!

BojacDR.2104:

Any idea what those boots are?

They’re called Noble Boots from a Noble set. (crafted)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/c/cc/Noble_armor_human_female_right.jpg

The leggings are called Conquest (karma).

http://www.gw2armorgallery.com/armour/human/human-medium-karma-conquest-female.jpg

RoterFuchs.9216:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The tool tip only shows the minimum distance for IF, not for SR. SR is time limited, no need for it to have a range limit also. If a range limit is added, no sense to add a time limit. It’s either/or and Anet choose the time limit and it is perfect as it is.

Actually that’s not true. Tooltip says:

Infiltrator’s Strike – Range: 600
Shadow Return – Range: 1200

Most of the tool tips are…how should I put this…“relics”…from beta.

A lot of times, if you want to know how a skill functions, you’re better informed to test it rather than to trust the tool tip. I mean, the tooltip says that Trick Shot has a .25s activation time, yet it doesn’t function as stated by the tooltip.

The tool tip only shows the minimum distance for IF, not for SR. SR is time limited, no need for it to have a range limit also. If a range limit is added, no sense to add a time limit. It’s either/or and Anet choose the time limit and it is perfect as it is.

@OP

The problem is not really dropping aggro on stealth, but dropping aggro in general. Even in my Guardian, when I want to waypoint travel, somehow something is keeping me in combat.

So the problem lies in the leash distance as well as aggro time table. The leash distance should be shorten and the aggro table should be cleared every time the mod resets — if that’s what “reset” means. It seems like Anet have a different definition for “reset”.

Kajiri.8215:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The only acceptable fix for LR in my opinion is for it to ignore Reveal debuff and stealth you anyway.

And if LR puts you into stealth, it shouldn’t give you revealed if you are already attacking.

The best thing to prevent that from happening is to grant the Thief blindness when LR triggers. This will insure that your next attack in queue will not hit and trigger Reveal.

Yeah well, thanks to you, and to all who have found this tactic, zergs are dropping anti-stealth near the sieges — especially the catapults — or near the Arrow Cart that spams anti-stealth on the catapult as an anti-stealth measure.

/rant/
It’s stupid, might as well remove the existence of stealth if they hate it that much.

Or at least allow stealth exclusively to Thieves. All non-thieves should not stealth at all because that’s the main problem here, but thieves gets the nerf bat.
/end rant/

Do you also know that you can drop the anti-supply trap near the supply depot so that whoever is taking supply will lose it and they will be further delayed because they have to wait for the supply to respawn?

The only acceptable fix for LR in my opinion is for it to ignore Reveal debuff and stealth you anyway.

Travlane.5948:

@ sir vincent. ill be carrying one everytime i roam…..its the “EASY WIN” button when i face a thief. i cant lose. lol.

You can’t lose? Have you looked and made sure you’re not standing on the other Thief’s trap?

lol?

I can’t stop laughing when I saw 30s reveal debuff.

I don’t know about you guys, but I think it’s time…it was fun while it lasted.

I used to ran with Vamp Runes and I’m telling you, you only get full benefit from these runes using D/D + P/P and Withdraw as your heal skill.

The proc of Vamp (2) is so low that using a sword and its attack speed will only make the proc chance even worst.

You can’t take advantage of Vamp(4) with the signet, it has to be Withdraw.

Finally, there’s a bug that is documented in the wiki concerning Vamp(4):
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Vampirism

Travlane.5948:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Other than fighting a boss, I typically carry Dagger Storm.

What makes this worthy of an Elite slot is Venom Aura. In a coordinated party or group, you can literally freeze someone in place until they die.

Another reason why it is an Elite, not because of its power level, but it seems that Anet don’t want us using this with Dagger Storm.

Anet do this a lot in GW1. They place something as Elite because they don’t want it to be combined with another Elite skill by a single profession.

srrry….. what does this mean?

There are certain skill combination that Anet didn’t want a single profession to pull off on their own. I agree that BV is a utility skill in an Elite slot only because the combination of BV with other Elite skill will make it OP. Imagine if BV is not an Elite and was placed as one of the utility venoms, you can practically disable multiple targets on your own using BV+Dagger Storm.

In order to keep this skill in our skill library, they have to place BV in the same slot as DS so we can only pick one or the other, not both.

Other than fighting a boss, I typically carry Dagger Storm.

What makes this worthy of an Elite slot is Venom Aura. In a coordinated party or group, you can literally freeze someone in place until they die.

Another reason why it is an Elite, not because of its power level, but it seems that Anet don’t want us using this with Dagger Storm.

Anet do this a lot in GW1. They place something as Elite because they don’t want it to be combined with another Elite skill by a single profession.

BojacDR.2104:

This would work fine for the most part but what about thieves who are spec’d to regenerate more than one point of initiative at a time? Atherakhia’s idea about a timer would work better in that case.

Timer doesn’t work for me since the only number I’m interested in is whether I can or cannot use a skill or a combo of skills.

The current diamonds doesn’t allow me to distinguish between 5-init and 7-init (they’re just too tiny) and leads me to miscalculate a lot of times especially during a heated fight.

I can scale my UI but that will limit my visibility.

Very nice website indeed, a lot of great tips on Fractals.

I rather have ONE BIG DIAMOND with a BIG NUMBER INSIDE IT telling me how much initiative I have left.

McFribble.2349:

swinsk.6410:

McFribble.2349:

Again, I am an entry level player to GW2, only recently getting into the PvP scene

That is why you make kitten posts like this.

Answer to everything you wrote is, no.

You also missed the part where I said, " I am NOT a massively experienced player, and I am fine to admit that unlike 99% of this board."

What he meant, and I totally agree with him, was due to your lack of experience and knowledge of the Thief profession, you shouldn’t be posting changes to things you have little experience of or have not have a full knowledge about.

If your post was based on your own personal experience as a Thief and not on what you heard, read, or watched about the profession, then you have more credibility, but you didn’t do that.

The Dancing Daggers in GW1 is better IMO. If they change GW2’s Dancing Dagger to that, I’d be happy.

Seriously, I’ve read all of it multiple times, it’s impossible to defend it. I could dominate anyone with any build spamming just 1 of those skills, then dominate him again using another one all the time.

I’m not so sure about that. With other alternatives to 333333333, you would play very differently by not wasting init.

Don’t take it as a personal attack, I’m just trying to advice you about thinking how something would affect the game before sugesting something so OP instead of just having a very cool vision of what you want and posting it, or the more you do it the less people will take those ideas seriously.

Oh no, I actually like your posts since it brought a different perspective on this idea.

I’m studying videogame design, I’m telling you from what I’ve learned over the years. When you want to introduce something in the game you have to consider how the game works from its root and follow its rules. ~snip~

In the case of P/P set you don’t need to make separate rules for a single set breaking how the game works. ~snip~

If you read my original post, this was not meant to be a suggestion, but a brainstorming tool — otherwise I would have posted it in the suggestion thread. I want to see if this is even feasible and efficient providing reasons from the oppositions.

The main problem with P/P right now is that you cannot make changes to improve it without harming the other P/x or x/P sets. So to deal with the P/P problem (giggles), we need to isolate it from the others.

Once the problem is isolated, we look into the tools we currently have. The dual-wielding mechanic of thieves can be expanded to give P/P some new skill set.

Then from that foundation, the sky’s the limit.

Lokheit.7943:

With “how the game works” (and I already took time to explain what I mean, apparently I’m not the only one not reading…)

Actually, you took the time explaining how YOU think how the game works, but not how the game really works.

You can’t change it for a single weapon combination just because it would look cool on that combination.

Sigh…if you read my original post, I have taken this into consideration. Instead of reading what I have posted, you just keep repeating yourself.

TLDR: This doesn’t affect single weapon combination.

What you fail to grasp is how “dual-wielding” actually works in GW2.

Only thieves has the dual-wielding mechanic.

As I said, if we keep it this way, then on D/P or P/D there are animations where your dagger shoots bullets. ~snip~

This what happens when;
1) you fail to understand the point of this thread, and
2) when you don’t know “how the game works” in terms of dual-wielding

And the stealth attack… really are you trying to defend it? ~snip~

I simply exchange the damage for positional conditions. I didn’t do anything out of the ordinary. I don’t know why are you so worked up about it.

P/P migh need a gap opener, or a stealth access, but throwing all of it on the same skill, specially as an unconditional stealth (no needing to hit in melee or activating a combo) makes it too powerful. ~snip~

That’s just ridiculous. Using SB#3 as comparison is the worst since you can use that still at full range of 900. The idea of gap-maker is that it will require the target to be at point blank range — just like the Ranger’s LB skill #4 — but this will have maybe a range of 300.

And you’re over exaggerating the cost. I already address this if you bother reading.

The 16 shots is still 16 impacts in 0.75 seconds. This is SUPER EXPLOITABLE no matter if it’s a cone or not. And you can hit multiple targets. Really how are those pistols supposed to hit so much in 0.75 seconds?

Umm, by pulling the triggers really really fast just like what the Thief do when Unloading.

Change it to 5 spread bullets and put it on #2 slot instead of Body Shot (each bullet is 1 Vulnerability) and you might have something.

Well, that’s the point of this thread. If you think you can make it better, then do so, instead of just calling it “OP” and keep saying “not gonna happen”.

And the push works like that. Unless you go and change the game code for 1 single skill, it is how the game works. ~snip~

The push effect has one value — distance. By making the push distance really small, enough push to keep the distance but not enough to displace them. And yes, it’s for the annoying factor.

And the autoattack part. All attacks work this way with an aftercast animation, ~snip~

You got this one wrong. The after-cast shouldn’t be there in the first place because it interferes with the auto-attack fire rate. The intended fire rate for Vital Shot is 0.5s ( and SB #1 is 0.25s) but because of the pre-cast and after-cast animation, it is firing close to 1 bullet per second instead of 2 bullets per second (SB fires 1 arrow every 0.75s instead of every 0.25s).

Pavel.8531:

I love trolling people like this – activate > run to them > they jump me > lolol suckaaaz. It’s even better when a horde of angry enemies are chasing me and I use this to return where I started and look at them with the mob mentality just continue running in a straight line, away from me already, while I /laugh.
(I hope this is working as intended/never gets fixed)

Oh the good old days of Shadow of Haste trolling when you can run for 40s max then poof!

1200 range is only checked when activating the IS, not SR.

Lokheit.7943:

I guess you misstyped and it’s either 8 shots per pistol or total of 18 shots.

Yeah it should be 8 shots, my left brain wants 9 shots but my right brain want 16 total. :/

Anyway… 16 shots in 0.75 seconds and you still don’t know how OP this is and how exploitable it is? Really?…~snip~

This is not 16 shots on one target, it is an AoE spread/cone. The angle of the cone can be adjusted to limit the number of shots that one can possibly take. So if you are standing to the right of the thief, you will only take 2 shots the most. But if you are standing dead center, the number of possible shot to hit you is 4-6 shots. Of course, a narrow angle will increase the probability of getting hit, so that’s why it needs to be adjusted over time to find the balance.

Each pistol will swing from outside-in firing 4 shots, then swing inside-out firing 4 shots.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, using both weapons to shoot at the same time in a #4 skill. This is not how the game works.

Again, this I’ve already answered. It is not to conform with it is now, it is to introduce a new way to improve the playstyle and kitten new features.

So basically you:
- Evade.
- Open a gap.
- Stealth unconditionally. All stealths either have a cooldown (generally long) or have a condition like needing to hit with a melee attack or blowing most initiative in a combo starter + combo finisher (and this one is considered to be really powerful even with all the initiative it wastes).

P/P needs a gap-maker and a source for stealth. It can cost 8 initiatives if that will make it balance. 4 init for the first skill, then 4 init of the stealth.

And… well… this one… You retain the effects from Sneak Attack, and then, with a Ranged attack, which makes maneuvers much easier as you don’t have to close gaps, you give it effects BETTER than Tactical Strike …~snip~

I disagree with this. Being in range makes it harder to position to get the best result for this Stealth Attack since you have a bigger circle to circumvent. Tactical Strike is a melee range that makes positioning easier to get the desired result.

Ok, even if for a moment we would consider P/P a 2 handed set with its own 5 unique skills, tell me why we would pick any set that isn’t this one? It’s soooooo crazy it would be plain stupid to pick anything else. It is OP for Berserkers, Carrion, Soldiers… I could even play Cleric without using healing at all just for the sake of it and still dominate anyone.

Nah, I highly doubt that. This weapon set doesn’t have the burst of D/x nor the boon stripping of S/D.

… how the game works…~snip~

You keep saying this yet you have not shown “how the game works”.

But thank you for taking the time to respond to all that.

Lokheit.7943:

Emmmmmm since you decided if someone said it was OP it was because he didn’t read it… ~snip~

If you read all of it, instead of just focusing on the list of skills — you would not call it OP. By calling it OP, it shows that you have not read ALL of it.

You’re sugesting something that isn’t in the game… ~snip~

The animation is in the game. The timing is in the game. It’s just a matter of sewing the pieces together.

Then the timing you wrote is expressed in a way that can be taken in many ways… ~snip~

There is a pre-cast animation — meaning the thief will aim before firing. Once in that position, it will lock the position as long as the auto-attack is active. When the auto-attack is disrupted, either out of range or the thief turned around, the pre-cast animation will kick in again.

This is not different than what Vital Shot is, the only difference is, Vital Shot resets it’s animation every shot. Instead of firing bullets every 0.5s as the tooltip indicates, instead it is firing almost every second because of the pre-cast animation.

Besides, numbers can be adjusted. If that’s too fast of a fire rate, then make the activation higher. No need to call it OP since all you have to do is suggest what will make it balance.

And the conditions part tracking an specific condition up to X, then starting to apply another different one… not happening… ~snip~

You miss this part completely. This actually alleviate the stress on the tracking system because all this one does is check if there’s 5 or more stacks of vulnerability before applying bleed. The logic is this;

Do ApplyBleed AsLongAs VulnerabilityStack > 4 Otherwise ApplyVulnerability

EDIT: I meant “AsLongAs” not “Unless”

The maximum 5 bleed stacks means that each stack should have a certain duration that in a 0% buff condition duration will ensure that there will only have a maximum of 5 stacks of bleed. If the auto-attack will stack 5 bleeds in 2.5s, that’s like 5 shots, then each bleed stack should only last 2.5s that the first one will fall off as soon as the new one is applied. There’s no tracking needed to be done here, only a status check.

Again using both weapons for a main hand skill … ~snip~

Again, if you really have read my post, you should know that I have answered this question because this concern had already come up even before I made the post.

And… daze+weakness on a #2 skill? Really? You’re making our #2 skill cost 6 initiative? because there isn’t any other way to do this… ~snip~

That’s just a tad bit of exaggeration on the cost. If it makes it better, this skill can have a secondary skill that replaces the first one. The first one causing weakness for 2 init and the second skill causing daze for 3 init. The total cost will be the same with #2 Sword skill.

…being pushed means not moving, so you can basically paralyze an opponent all the time just by shooting at him… ~snip~

That’s not how push works. There’s too much exaggeration in your comments. This will simply function like a ward against the target. The push only happens when the target is moving towards the source of the resistance. It does not lock them in place nor paralyze.

Lokheit.7943:

There is no need to create a whole set that completly breaks the rules of this game about weapons when a simple fix could make it really interesting. I agree P/P needs attention as right now it’s a boring spam of 3 that isn’t even that great, but what you sugested is way too OP and can’t be implemented in this game mechanics.

Thank you for taking the time to post but it doesn’t seems like you have read what I’ve posted at all.

The auto-attack fire rate did not change. That is the same fire rate as Vital Shot if and when it get fixed. The stacking of vulnerability and bleeding is part of the flavor for this set. Also there’s no “too many CC”…how many is too many? Compare to a S/P weapon set, where you have access to 4 CCs this weapon set doesn’t have that many — it only have 3.

Nevertheless, thank you for your time — I just wish that you actually read it and understand it.

Weapon Set:
P/P

Objective:
- To add flavor and unique dual-wielding skills to a boring and monotonous weapon set.
- Replace all weapon skills from #1-#5 instead of just #3 for dual-wielding
- If not this, at least it serve as a foundation to other posibilities

Pros:
- Introduces new weapon skills exclusive to P/P set
- Introduces new attack animations that uses both weapons
- New skills are the ones we need as P/P users
- Skill balance to this set doesn’t affect P/x and x/P builds

Cons:
- Current P/P users may QQ
- I don’t care about the QQs

Reasoning:
- Current skills and animation to P/P is boring and unflavorful.
- Unique: Dual-wielding is unique to the Thieves profession in GW2. Other classes may be able to equip the same type of weapons in each hand, but the dual-wielding mechanic does not apply to those profession
- Flavor: The game need to take into consideration that both hands has the same type of weapons, meaning in the hands of the Thief, it will fire from both as an auto-attack
- Flavor: The ability of the Thief to dual-wield should allow the profession to use both weapon when performing a weapon skill

The Skills:

#1) Cover Fire
- 0.5s casting time for each hand
- Fire rate of 0.25s per shot
- Initial pre-cast animation for aiming, but stay at aiming position as long as the auto-attack is active
- After pre-cast, it shoots like a slow motion version of Unload
- Stacks vulnerability upto 5 stacks
- Stacks bleeding upto 5 stacks if target has atleast 5 stack of vulnerability

#2) Double-up
- 0.75s casting time
- Aiming animation
- Fire both weapons simultenously
- One weapon aims at the head, the other at the body
- Daze target
- Weaken target
- 0.25s Recoil animation after shot

#3) Unload
- Same as current Unload
- New effect: Push distance of 10
- Push distance of 10 ensures that the target cannot come any closer to the Thief by normal means

#4) Spray and Pray
- Channeled skill: 0.75s
- Uses both weapon to fire a cone AoE in front of the Thief
- 9 shots per pistol, total 16 shots

#5) Drifter’s Guile
- Chain skill
- Leap backwards
- Shoot target with main hand on the leg while airborn. Cripples target
- Shoot landing area with off-hand causing a Shadow’s Refuge for 1s

#1-Stealth) Temple Aim
- Uses both weapons aimed at the head
- Applies 5 stacks of Bleed
- Positional effects:
- Front: Blinds
- Side: Dazes
- Back: Stuns

Comments:
- This is just an idea that can improve the quality of life of those who are using P/P – like me.
- If this idea is so far fetched, then I hope that it can serve as a foundation to other better ideas.
- The posibilities are endless and sure enough, there’s a lot of room for improvements.
- If we currently cannot have fun in game due to issues we have experience, let’s have fun brainstorming ideas.

Try equiping the signet first —- then change the trait, see if that works.

Typically;
- What you can use in PvP, you can use in WvW and PvE.
- What you can use in WvW, not necessarily useable in PvP, but good in PvE.
- What you can use in PvE, usually just for PvE.

As a thief, I don’t really need to stealth since I can outrun/catch anyone, except for Mesmers — I am yet to catch me one.

Also, a couple of months ago, the argument was that Stealth is for offensive and how 4s Revealed killed it. Now, Stealth is the only defensive skill we have….

I guess if you build around Stealth, then if that keystone is broken, your whole build crumbles to dust.

But if you build smart, you’ll set up a strong foundation with a lot of supports, so in case one of the support breaks (like no access to Stealth), you are still standing strong.

Zacchary.6183:

Nickeloneon.8714:

Zacchary.6183:

No. All of the facerollers believe “Warrior is best” and that anything > warrior = OP. Maths never lie.

Not sure if serious… or trolling….

Serious troll is serious. :I

It’s an obvious troll because Warrior is not the best, Guardian is — they are a walking, breathing, one man army of tank, heal, and DPS — a manifestation of the Holy Trinity.

Grimwolf.7163:

Dasorine.1964:

Rafahil.2857:

Again a direct nerf to thieves…..just remake the class into the classic assassin and just maybe less people will moan.

Nah then they’d just complain about how OP the damage is and how shadowsteps are a broken game mechanic that should never exist in the first place etc etc etc.

Those exact events occurred already when the Assassin was introduced in GW1.
“OMG, Shadowsteps are so OP. No one else can close a gap that fast or catch people off guard!”

I remember when Assassins can SS through walls, top/below of bridges, scale a gap, etc.

Those were the fun times…but Anet, despite their manifesto about bringing fun, is actually against fun.

They’ve taken a lot of fun out of the Assassins, they’re too serious now, and now they are doing the same thing to Thieves in GW2.

This is what happens when you bring the same person responsible for balancing GW1 to balance GW2 — you get the same BAD decisions.

Travlane.5948:

ok so the stability is leaving you open and very vunerable to melee attacks so its a gamble and situationally good. the stability is only on the skill so we have no usefull access to it other than move with DS at a crippled pace. its on 90 sec cooldown ..not 30. we do have stealth which is our gift for everything we dont have(hence mypoint) but you ahve to understand that AOE CC = death . and plz (talking to everyone here) lets not talk about skills/etc in the sense of the very useless 1 v 1 scenarios…bc it doesnt matter diddly. shadow step is great although it triggers traps and hits aoe in way so :P yeah its good but not like avoiding everything like people think. Lots of classes have blind…especially eles which can be blind bots (fought one 2 days ago…wasnt bad at all) . Invulnerability is the chance to go toe to toe with another melee type and deal dmg without worring about anything….OR a chance to take 0 dmg and figure out a way to escape. i dont care we dont ahve that bc of shadowstep but id hardly say blind is better. if blind was “only removed on hits or blocks” then i would agree. but wiffing a strike in the air to remove it? pffft not that daunting.

Ok, my bad, I was going off the top of my head about DS so I thought it has 30s CD.

The reason why I believe that blind is better than invulnerability is mainly because of its easy access. We can blind our target in so many ways that if you time it correctly, you can keep them blinded for a long time. I find it funny that the initial reaction to blind was to stop attacking — probably GW1 syndrome. Compare that to a short invulnerability with long cooldown. I mean come on, if you’re fighting with someone who popped invulnerability, are you going to continue to exchange blows? Seriously?

But my point was, we have other form of defense other than stealth and I’m sure you have used quite a lot of them in your 1v1 fights.

randomfightfan.4091:

Just putting this out there:
warriors have hammer and fear me and ton of aoe dmg
mesmers have gs and focus
eles have a bunch of knockbacks and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Necros have aoe fears and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Engis have shield knockback, bomb knockback, and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge
Guards are already the direct counter to thieves and have pulls, knockbacks, and a bajillion aoes to drop inside the refuge

…while the Thief is 200 yards away from the refuge…

So much doom and gloom…is that time of the month already?

Morrar.1764:

This is the real issue. A group of maybe 10 players can deny thieves access to areas by covering it with traps. The comparison to siege weapons above is irrelevant, cause thieves are also already hit by everything that hits non-stealthed players. This change specifically targets the thief’s main defense mechanism.

I have to disagree with you since we don’t know any detail what “anti-stealth” really mean.

- It could mean a pulsing wave that leave a silhouette of a thief for 1s.
- It could also mean that they can see our transparent figures.
- It could also mean that it completely reveal us and root us in place.

The fact is, we still don’t know and it’s to darn early to freak out about it.

Travlane.5948:

thief stealth is one part yes. its also the only defense. nobody said it was the only facet of thief. but it is the only real defense we have.

0 blocks
0 invulnerability
0 protection
0 stability
2nd lowest Hp pool
squishiest class in game regardless of build

so stealth is the only defense. our healing…condition removal…blinds and attacks/get aways are all tied to it. its always been our only defense. well i guess you could say back when thief was op backstabbing for 20k….the best defense was a super strong offense. but after the nerfs we only have stealth. and yes it would be nice to have a choice between stealth and osmething else. seems the devs/ anet team is too busy nerfing rather than fixing :P

That’s not entirely true. We have access to Evade that is better than Block, and we have access to Blind that is better than Invulnerability. Our Dagger Storm deals damage, reflect projectile and stabilizes with 30s CD — in addition to stealth and shadow step.

So I have to disagree with everything you have said.

There’s already a discussion about this going on right now, we don’t really need another one:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Anti-Stealth-Traps/first#post1980730

Travlane.5948:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The anti-stealth is not a trap, it’s a field. I assume it will be liken to Asura’s racial skill: Radiation Field.

EDIT:
Just to clarify. They are adding 2 things;
1) “anti-stealth fields”
2) “traps that remove supply from enemy players”

a field? even worse. how about a field that is like swirling winds size (400radius) and you cant make any minions or clones or ele summons in it) ….why are they making our ONLY defense even worse when they are “supposed” to be working on making it better so we can participate in wvw and larger fights in tpvp"????

Well, if it’s a field, then we can see where they are and circumvent them — so it is not targeted on Thieves.

I can see where they are going with this. Strategically, these fields can be used to funnel Stealth Zergs. Tactically, these fields can be placed on top of dead bodies to see stealth rezzes.

Travlane.5948:

well lets put it this way. with multiple fields up by multiple players…..what defense will a thief then have? what role? this has to hurt their money as thieves wont spend money on a game they cant play/play well or at all :P idk

That’s really not a valid point. With all the siege engines around, what role does non-stealth profession have? See what I mean?

It seems that these fields will be like a siege engine that you have to build with supplies. Since it only makes sense to use a trap that removes supplies as a counter to this.

As for me, I’ll wait and see.

Doggie.3184:

…signet of shadow’s passive can cause a 1 second blur effect every 10 seconds in combat that evades anything instead. Then I wont have to worry anymore.

The movement speed is a big plus during combat. It is a major advantage that allows for quick positioning and flanking.

Just leave this skill as it is. If you really want something different, then suggest to Anet to add a skill that does exactly what you want it to do.

The anti-stealth is not a trap, it’s a field. I assume it will be liken to Asura’s racial skill: Radiation Field.

EDIT:
Just to clarify. They are adding 2 things;
1) “anti-stealth fields”
2) “traps that remove supply from enemy players”

Thedenofsin.7340:

Underwhelming

That’s the word that best describes the Flame & Frost Living Story. I feel it could have been something really fun and special, but in the end really didn’t amount to much.

~snip~

The final dungeon was, and is, fairly well put together with a good end boss mechanic. However, the rewards in the dungeon are BAD. Just bad.

After completing everything, the final reward is: a pair of ugly gauntlets. Very underwhelming. In retrospect, had I known the gloves would have been as ugly as they are (I’m speaking about the light gauntlets, since I haven’t seen the others), I never would have bothered with any of the questline, and ultimately I don’t think it would have made a difference.

The F&F Living Story seems to follow the Personal Story template — long and tedious quests that doesn’t really change anything; and end it with a dungeon and crappy reward.

While I liked the dungeon and a couple of the bits of this story, the overall saga was very clunky and uninteresting with rewards that left something to be desired.

One thing I hate the most is grinding for the items I want. After getting burned out from running Fractals for my first and only Ascended item, I am not going to a grindfest to get the jetpack. I rather do something else or play some other game.

Besides, I think Rox’s quiver is way better looking anyway.

Ralathar.7236:

The devs are going in the right direction. They seem to be intent on giving you more survivability and utility if you spec for it, but overall a little less burst damage and survivability if you do not spec for it.

Any more survivability then we become mini-Warriors. That is not the right direction for this profession. The burst damage is what define this profession and losing that capability will surely kill this profession. That is the direction we are currently going, so according to you, killing this profession is the right direction.

If you wish the thief to be an overall more competitive class you will need to lose a bit of stealth prowess in turn for that power, otherwise thief will always be a balancing nightmare. This is the way stealth classes are in every game and the difficulty in balancing them.

If Stealth is such a problem or a “balancing nightmare”, then they should remove it — but give us Critical Defense (3s Evade on Crits) and Flashing Blades (100% evade while attacking) as our utility skills if they want to give us survivability skills.

Your only “Oh kitten” button lies in a D/P weapon set (BlkPwder + HS), not in your utility skills. The long cooldown makes them unreliable. So always have a D/P weapon set handy.

PearlGore.7419:

Remove the blind and add 30 sec swiftness.

No way! The blind is what makes my build works. Swiftness is a useless boon in my build.

If you don’t like the signet, then don’t use it — don’t try to change it based on a probability that you MIGHT use it.

Anti-stealth might be a good thing as long as it doesn’t kick us out of stealth and give us Revealed debuff.

What I don’t like is that all these great items are sold by NPC or gem store instead of making it a craftable item so people can use this to make money. Put the anti-supply trap in Blacksmith, Leatherwork, and Weaponsmith; and the anti-stealth field in Artificer, Tailor, and Jewelsmith. Each discipline can craft a piece of the item and when put together will generate the trap or the field device. They can even add the mystic toilet in the mix if they want to. The main point is, enough with the NPC gold sinks, the gold needs to circulate.

This should be an opportunity for them to add some “fun” stuff in the crafting disciplines. Right now it’s really boring, each discipline should have their own consumables.

It’s funny that you found Elementalist easier to play than a Warrior or Guardian.

Nevertheless, you are right that you can’t just pick up a Thief and face roll with it but once you master the profession, the profession is perceived to be OP.

There’s no way we can win this.

So basically, we just entrust ourselves to the wisdom of Anet balance team that they will do the right thing and at least hear us out before making a drastic decision.

IMO, the changes on FS/LS is just a bone they throw at the dogs just to stop them from barking for a while.

Xirin.8593:

I understand the tool tips have fractions of a second. Tool tips also don’t list every aspect of every mechanic. And what do you mean you are pretty sure? I’ve seen it posted previously that they were also pretty sure that it does round up.

Have you tested Sigil of Para and Tactical Strike for yourself? I am literally logged in right now and comparing with and without Sigil only (no Mesmer runes).

The 3rd second is clearly not 1/3 of a second and is almost certainly a full second.

You can’t really based it on the display, you need to actually time it using a 3rd party method (i.e. a stop watch).

A 3s display can mean a timer between 3.0s – 3.99s counting down from 4, not from 3.

Thanks guys. Hopeful Anet can include this in their iterations.

Another idea that we’re bouncing back and forth with my friends is a Weapon Set-based Elite skill.

If they can disable non-underwater Elite while underwater, they can disable this skills if you’re not using the required weapon set.

One Elite skill we like to see a come back from GW1 is Assault Enchantments, maybe renamed to Assault Boons. So in GW2, it will require a D/D weapon set and it is a boon hater, as in, it removes all boons — should be worthy of an Elite skill.

And another stuff we’re talking about is like a fullset dual-wielding — basically, instead of just changing slot #3 when using D/D or P/P, it replaces your whole weapon set, giving you new skill from #1-#5 and each skill will use both main- and off-hand weapons when attacking. Slot #1 will auto-shoot with both weapon alternating main- and off-hand weapon in its animation. This way, it’s completely separating it from D/x, x/D, P/x, and x/P builds. This is the only way we think it will be balanced without affecting existing builds — But some of us still love the current D/D so we don’t know if this is such a good idea.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Travlane.5948:

with 15% +33% its a total of 48%. so you go from a 2 sec stun to a 3 sec stun pretty much. with just one or the other you go up to 2.66 seconds or 2.3 seconds…… do they work / stack and in what mode? im not sure as i have used them but never thought they wouldnt work so i never counted….. can anyone verify a 3 sec stun in wvw or pve?

I can verify a 3 second stun in PvE with the 6x Mesmer runes. I can also verify that adding Superior Sigil of Paralyzation does not increase the duration from 3 seconds. Not sure if it’s rounding up to the next second or not. I have not tested daze duration w/o the Mesmer runes.

All you have to do is unequip one armor piece then test it.

Katsumoto.9452:

Deadly arts trait line to be revamped. Unfortunately the majority of traits in here are either rubbish or situational.

Mug is arguably not worth it anymore, and honestly the only one i’d have ever used to have gone for anyway. Debate this all you want.
Steal recharges all skills of a type is nice but sadly unreliable. For having to invest 20 points into this tree for it, i’d expect a reliable trait.
Immobilise enemies on low hp is nice, but the CD is too long for something I have to spend 30 points for.
Extra strike on venoms, situational.

The rest is barely worth talking about. This trait line simply doesn’t add up to the stengths of say…. well any other line. Critical strikes has amazing things like hidden killer, executional, fury at 50% hp enemy and so on. SA is probably the best line ever… Deadly arts just lacks something you can really base a build upon I think is its main issue. Hidden killer and regen health in stealth are both build defining grand master traits whereas deadly arts offers nothing of the sort.

The minor traits in DA are fine, but the major traits need some direction. CS traits are more deadly than that in DA. :/

What Anet needs to do is draw several lines for each trait line. If someone will go for venom line, this, this and this are their major traits. If they will go for condition in general, this, this, and this are their major traits. Right now, it doesn’t matter what line you choose, there’s only one logical choice — Mug. And nerfing Mug doesn’t make the other major traits look good, they just made Mug less better and the rest are still bad.

IMO, mug should deal no damage and instead causes a knockdown — but that’s just me.

Travlane.5948:

The Stun effect is shown as swirling white lines and dots around the head.

(see how they throw daze in with the description) basically both interrupt and prevent skill use over x time.

Stun shows swirling and Daze shows popping bubbles. Stun you can’t use skills nor move (except stun breaker). Daze you can’t use skills, including stun breaker, but you can move.

This is the reason for my skepticism.

The wiki entry is misleading, but like I said, I cannot prove it to be wrong, thus the misleading entry stayed…for now.