Guild Wars 2

Travlane.5948:

daze and stun are basically the same……its like stealth/invisibility as i was informed.

Yeah stealth/invis/cloak are the same in function. The reason for different names is because of difference in profession, Ranger’s uses cloak for example, so that makes sense.

Stun, on the other hand, functions very differently from Daze so I fail to grasp the perceived similarity.

ProxyDamage.9826:

Stop doing drugs.

That was uncalled for. The concerns presented are valid based on the poster’s point of view and/or experience. If you believe them to be invalid, then address the points presented and not accuse the poster of taking drugs.

Someone mentioned here in the forum that Paralyzation also apply on Daze not just Stun. I’m still skeptical about that, but I cannot disprove it either.

The daze duration of Tactical Strike, for example, is 2s outside PvP and 1.5s in PvP.

So +33% is as follows;
2s + 33% = 2.66
1.5s + 33% = 1.99s (or 2s)

The only trap that is worthy of the utility slot is Ambush. The rest should be F3-F4 so we can use them in conjunction with venom.

Example:
F1 – Steal
F2 – Needle Trap
F3 – Tripwire
F4 – Shadow Trap

Then we can get new Utility skills to fill the 3 spots.

Toroquin.3605:

Depends entirely on the assassins build ofc. A knocklock spiker (as in 1-2-3-4-5-6-7) assassin would fail since the thief would just stun-break, dodge or blind his first knockdown, a flashing blade/critical defenses assassin (un-nerfed crit scyther?) would be slightly harder to counter. Or perhaps enchantments and stances would count as boons that the thief could steal with S/D?
The assassin could however not really win though, since he must have a target to be able to attack, which is impossible on a stealthed thief.

Assassin’s blind >>>>> Thief blind

But you know what would be funny?

Assassins can’t jump or swim

ensoriki.5789:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Would you really bring any of the traps, even if improved, to replace Caltrops?
Or would you bring the traps in addition to Caltrops further hurting your build?

Hell yeah. I’d bring Tripwire or Ambush trap. There are niches for that skill specifically, one of which was the Spirit watch map at which I rather Tripwire a dam lot of the time, since it wont trigger until they come at it, wont disappear 10s after I dropped it unless triggered and it disables skill usage and can force a stunbreak where Caltrops won’t. On top of it being invisible. Best skill in game? No but it has niches, it should be broadened mind you and many times there are better choices but in terms of Traps vs Caltrops? That’s an easy justification.
2 traps block out dodging where Caltrops does not. Tripwire blocks out all skills where Caltrops does not. Ambush trap melee, brings out a scorpion wire which has clear benefits over caltrops and as a npc if not killed will pursue them, where Caltrops can be walked around and ignored.

Traps perfect or ideal? Eh not really Vs caltrops? Are you even serious. You can compare any trap vs Caltrops and have a reason to use it their different to the point of having seperate niches they excel in allowing you to clearly justify one over the other. In addition neither Trops or traps are strong to the point of bringing one over the other being so peculiar where as choosing Needle trap over Shadowstep is very strange.

It seems that you are not on the same page as we were when we are discussing the difference within the context of our discussion.

But here’s the main difference why Caltrops is better than traps; Caltrops has a circular area of effect and have a lingering effect — traps does not and often affects only one target.

Then you can read the rest of the discussion because I don’t feel like repeating myself.

oh on another note;

Assassin dance move >>>>>>> Thief dance move

another win.

You should practice your backstab at all times, you’ll find that you can take out ~30% of your target’s HP with just one backstab.

KD chains anyone? lol

Assassin wins, it’s no contest.

Assassins also have access to a 2ndary profession and you know how it was with A/W builds.

Einlanzer.1627:

I think it depends a bit on the issue. Some (even within my list) are more critical and consequently irritating than others, and on many of these the solution is both very obvious and very simple.

P/P is a great example- 90% of P/P’s problem lies in the inequality that exists between Vital Shot and Unload. Unload needs a slight buff, then Vital Shot needs a significant buff so that it’s only slightly less DPS than Unload. This would change the entire dynamic of the set in a positive way- Unload would behave properly as a tactical option rather than an absolute necessity, which would then open up the other skills on the set and allow you to properly benefit from the utility it offers without instantly cratering your DPS.

P/x and SB have the same issue when it comes to auto-attacks. Thieves have this added pre-cast animation (that’s when the thief takes an aim before shooting) which is visually great but functionally flawed. They also suffer with the problem about skills hanging up or delayed — same problem I notice with Eng’s Mortar — that’s making our slow fire rate functions even worse.

If they fix that, we can accurately assess where the weapon sets are really lacking.

Einlanzer.1627:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Seven Dreamsong.9802:

there are a lot of skills that might see action in pvp,
but you would almost see never being used in pve, due to the
inherent difference of the gameplay types. simply letting them stay
that way is bad game design, and further shows their bias against
the class.

It seems that’s what diversity is. You bring one build in PvP and another in PvE. If the same build is viable in both cases, that’s actually not promoting diversity.

That is explicitly not what their design goal is. Their design goal is to make skills as equally usable as possible and to discourage cookie-cutter builds in all modes of play while promoting build diversity through working to ensure that every single weapon set/skill has fairly broad usability. Justifying the weakness of a set or a skill by saying “it’s just meant for fun” is not acceptable, neither in the view of most players nor in the context of Anets own design philosophy.

Whether it is equally useable or not, it will still promote cookie-cutter build because the fact is, not one build will be viable everywhere. There will always be that optimized build that everybody will run with in certain situations.

The build I’m running now is good in WvW and PvE, but I sure not going to bring it in PvP.

That’s why the list above needs to be addressed.

I agree with some of them, but we don’t need to get all worked up and angry when they’re not addressed any time soon. The reasons are the ones being discussed in this thread.

Travlane.5948:

how is the rangers sb different? or better?

Their SB auto attack is faster than ours, in both fire rate and arrow flight time, despite the fact that their activation time of 1/2s is longer than our activation time of 1/4s.

We’re currently firing at a rate close to .75s-1s per arrow due to animation bug (the aiming time and sometimes it hangs) and our arrow flight time is so slow that it misses a moving target more often than it should.

You can see the difference if you stand next to a SB ranger and have both of you auto-attack the same target.

We also need to keep in mind that we want these to function as traps, not like Necro ’s wells and marks – there also lies the challenge.

In GW1, traps has a long cast time (2s) and they are interruptible, which makes them viable and balanced, even if they have high damage (multiple of the same trap) and effect and very low cooldown.

I don’t think any of those balancing conditions will work in GW2, that’s why I’m not optimistic into seeing any significant changes to traps any time soon.

Dasorine.1964:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That formula can’t be right.

It would take 3250 Power to reach the 400 max (using the .0233 multiplier) and 4300 Power to hit the cap of 425.

How in the world can you get 4300 Power?

Full ’zerker + food + might only gives roughly around 3400-3500.

if it is a cap I suspect that might be the point, pre-update thieves could hit the cap and lose out, now even full power build in optimal conditions is only looking at around the 4100 mark while running a fairly unfeasible build with a very specific conditions.

Though we still don’t really know if its a cap or not.

That makes sense.

4100 power, wow, I’d love to have that.

EDIT:

Full Soldier equipment + Soldier Crests on Weapons + 5x Runes of the Fighter, 1x Soldier Crest, 30/0/30/10/0 build, 200 Power on Kill food + Sharpening Stone + Assassin’s Signet + 25 Bloodlust = 3322 Power

25 Stacks of Might on top of that would give 4197 Power

Add a Warriors Banner of Strength for an additional 170 Power = Total of 4367 Power

Not ideal… But plausible.

Well I wasn’t counting the outside effects like banner, guild buffs on fortress, etc. because that can get crazy.

But if the cap is to anticipate for outside effects, then by your example, 425 is still not high enough.

EDIT 2: buggy quote code

@Dasorine.1964
The major difference is, this new improved trap immobilizing player is what makes it overpowered not the damage. Compare to Caltrops, they can just roll out of the way if someone else is trying to AoE them down. But if they’re immobilized, it requires them to pop a cleanse just so they can roll out of the way. That extra requirement just to get away is what makes it imbalanced.

You can cripple a large number of people (meaning > 1), but you cannot immobilize them without crossing the OP line. Even more so when the cripple pulse every 1-2s. You just can’t cleanse that often or fast enough.

The traps are balanced in term of power level as it is now, but it has to be better than balance to actually see play.

I like the idea of lingering effect, but I highly doubt that it’ll ever happen.

It’s always been like that…ever since Gw1. The mechanic is obviously carried over in Gw2

But I wouldn’t salvage the Dreamer since I’m sure our SB will get fixed to be in par with Ranger’s SB.

That formula can’t be right.

It would take 3250 Power to reach the 400 max (using the .0233 multiplier) and 4300 Power to hit the cap of 425.

How in the world can you get 4300 Power?

Full ’zerker + food + might only gives roughly around 3400-3500.

25/30/15/0/0
WvW = S/D + D/P (sometimes SB)
PvE = S/D + P/P

I find that this build is more flexible to what I do everyday I log in. I can bring this to WvW, dungeons, daily chore, etc.

15 in SA is the one the gives flexibility. When fighting melee, I can switch up to Cloaked in Shadows. When fighting Condi, I can switch up to Shadow’s Embrace. If I want to dance with someone, I can switch up to Infusion of Shadows.

Dasorine.1964:

The point is, if they were improved to be on par then you’d potentially take them for the different effects they’d have over caltrops just like any skill choice SHOULD be.

There should be effective multiple choices for most situations with the ideal skill varying depending on build and playstyle.

For example, Caltrops currently is the best/only real area denial tool we have, it is great for spreading people away, slowing them down and applying some hefty bleeds.

For 10 seconds it will disuade people from that area and slow them down giving you a decent escape help and some decent group fight presence.

However it has its faults, its cast on the thieves location and the duration starts the moment its cast meaning unless the thief is in the middle of the players theres a chance that a lot of the duration is wasted. Its effectiveness greatly drops the moment they dodge roll out and if your not condition built.

Now take Needle trap, this trap could be great for exactly those situations.

Improvements: Needle trap is now a decently sized circle instead of a singular line, On activation the trap is active for 5 seconds and hits everyone (upto 5 people as all aoe’s) in the area, it applies 1s immobilize every second, it applies 2 seconds of poison every second and deals direct damage every second (more than currently).

This takes it from a single line that hits a single person for 3s immobilize and poisons them while doing a singular hit of damage to an area containment tool. It won’t disuade people from the area instead it will keep those it hit stuck there much better than caltrops allowing for a better escape from those or more effective containtment.

The bleed damage is lost for poisons debuff to the healing power however it deals direct damage in addition to the potential for traiting to give it weakness as well.

Because its active time isn’t from when cast but when triggered the thief looses non of its effectiveness by utilizing it before the encounter or when running.

Con’s are of course that its duration is shorter, the damage potential is smaller due to the bleeds vs poison.

They would both be good picks, they’d both have builds that would have a preference over the other and both have certain situations where they are the clear choice, however overall their utility is very similiar to the point where unless you’ve specifically traited or built in a way that makes one that much better than the other they’d become a preference.

You realize how OP that is right? Just as I mentioned, the only way to make traps not “garbage” is if you improve it to be over powered.

There are so many things that this improved trap can be abused and when it has it’s 15 minutes of fame, it’s get nerfed back to being “garbage” again.

The weakness of Caltrops in your scenario is what makes it balance. Your improvement on the Needle Trap can be abused if coupled with Shadow Step due to traps’ almost instant cast time. Using this trap guarantees Dagger Storm to be an ultimate killing machine since the foes are immobilized in a circular area.

But I see what you’re saying, unfortunately this is the only way to make Needle Trap attractive when it is changed to be overpowered. Any thing less than this will keep it in the “garbage” bin.

Seven Dreamsong.9802:

agree on theives’ ranged options, traps, even venoms.

anet have been saying for so long they wanted more diversified,
efficiently viable builds for us, but what they’re doing right now
is the opposite.

Unfortunately for us, our profession has been stashed in the basement crawling with bugs. I would rather see them exterminate the bugs first.

there are a lot of skills that might see action in pvp,
but you would almost see never being used in pve, due to the
inherent difference of the gameplay types. simply letting them stay
that way is bad game design, and further shows their bias against
the class.

It seems that’s what diversity is. You bring one build in PvP and another in PvE. If the same build is viable in both cases, that’s actually not promoting diversity.

they might have a more insightful view if they have a person
maining only a specific class for the balancing team,
secretly playing with regular people to see how much theives
are actually shunned against in parties for high-lvl fracs/ ect.
part of the reason as much is that a lot of our skills are subpar
compared to other classes pve-wise.

.

Yeah this has been suggested many times before. No one in their balance team shares our pain and suffering that’s why we get fixes like SB arrow not homing without fixing the arrow speed and fire rate. :/

Ghostwolf.9863:

Traps:
Should be buffed.
The thief from ambush trap dies way too quickly.
Tripwire only knocks down 1 target, imo I think it should stay up for about 2-3 seconds after triggered to knock down additional targets that tries to pass it.
Needle trap should immobilize and poison the first target that steps on it as
normally, and for a couple of seconds afterwards cripple and posion additional
targets that walk over it.

I doubt that they will make changes to these any time soon, but I like the lingering effects after they trigger. Tripwire would be a really funny skill to use — might as well change it to Marbles Trap. :P

Okamakiri.8746:

Keep digging that hole.

Pssh, I called you on your stupidity and you have nothing to say.

Good.

Okamakiri.8746:

lolwut? So the sets that do work are not fun?

Ah, now I see that the failure here is reading comprehension.

When did I ever say that? That’s your failure to comprehend that lead you to that conclusion.

Fun sets cannot be viable at the same time?

Again, find where I made that statement.

It’s ok if something sucks as long as it’s fun?

Another unsupported conclusion.

Is it by same logic ok if something is not fun, as long as it doesn’t suck?

How many more of these… :/

You made stupid comments, people called you out on it. You’re now just digging yourself into an even deeper hole trying to justify your earlier stupidity.

Yet you failed to show what is this “stupid comments” are.

Dude, just quit trolling. Nobody agrees with you.

You sure about that?

Here’s the logic you failed to grasp;
Situation A – is skill X viable? – No – garbage
Situation B – is skill X viable? – No – garbage
Situation C – is skill X viable? – Yes – golden

Another logic to help you out;
Is skill X made for Situation A? – No – garbage
Is skill X made for Situation B? – No – garbage
Is skill X made for Situation C? – Yes – golden

Now think about it, really hard, and I’m sure you will be able to come to a conclusion who is being stupid and illogical.

Okamakiri.8746:

Agree with the OP.

As for Vincent… I can’t even begin to comment on how stupid and illogical everything he said has been.

Just because you don’t understand doesn’t make it “stupid and illogical” .

What you just posted is stupid and illogical since you have not posted to support that conclusion.

Issues.5789:

5) Traps are not viable at all except for trolling in Jumping Puzzle

And they said it’s not fun…

Dasorine.1964:

So… improving something won’t help because somethings already good?

So if traps where all improved in ways that made them better (not just “as good as” as everything really should be) than caltrops you’d still only use caltrops because caltrops has always been ok? that makes no sense…

I asked you; pick a trap, improve it, if you’d pick Caltrops over this improved trap, then improve it again, repeat until you’re satisfied. Then make an argument why someone will pick your newly improved traps.

“improved in ways that made them better” is a cowardly approach because you know that the only way of make traps not “garbage” is either make it OP or make Caltrops “garbage” — then you’d pick neither.

Auesis.7301:

It’s perfectly fine for something to be completely ineffective and pointless, provided that it can be fun sometimes?

What kind of rhetoric is that? Misrepresenting what I’ve posted doesn’t make yours look good — it only makes you look dishonest.

I hope Arenanet don’t share that hideous logic.

You speak of logic after committing a fallacy?

Dasorine.1964:

comparing a nerf gun toy not being used as an actual weapon in reality to a class skill not being effective is silly.

It wasn’t a comparison. I simply stated the different things are made for different purpose.

Well, if that doesn’t work for you — will you play around with a loaded gun? Of course not, because there are things that are designed for playing around.

Traps could be effective with thief mobility if they were worthwhile, you could set up area’s of traps and using your mobility get the enemy to chase you into them etc etc, they’d also work well for protecting the rear of groups. Thematically it would be great if you could set up traps in a small valley in WvW so when enemy groups walk in they set em off to start a cool ambush but the game, and players, don’t work like that. But traps COULD still be useful, just because a few select skills are currently are way better doesn’t mean anything that isn’t should be dismissed.

I’m not saying that it should be dismissed, what I said is that it has a different purpose.

You say things like setting up traps, protecting the rear, etc. but all those can be accomplished by one skill – Caltrops.

Would you really bring any of the traps, even if improved, to replace Caltrops?
Or would you bring the traps in addition to Caltrops further hurting your build?

The answer is an obvious “no.”

If it comes down to it if something is truely that bad then it should be removed and something better take its place, the use of skills should be about choice and what fits best for your build not “well everything else is garbage so I’ll just use this one set regardless”

Skill being “garbage” is a subjective issue. But like I said, even if those “garbage” skills are improved, you wouldn’t pick them any way since there will always be a better alternative.

And why replace it if other parts of the game find the skill fun to use?

There is no “garbage” skill in PvE. Even a random build will work.

Saying that its fine to see skills like this is quite literally moronic and if you apply it to skills you may as well apply it to other things and change the whole game, whats that you want to play a thief? sorry but we decided they were garbage/casual you now have to play Mesmer if you want to do this content.

You can call me names or what have you, but to me it is stupid to put effort to change something that is obvious that nobody will ever pick up.

Einlanzer.1627:

Vincent, no offense, but your response is laughable. Despite the size of your post, you actually managed to fail at making a single good counter-argument, just various repetitions of “sigh” or “it’s fine that it’s broken because I don’t need/want it” that you then tried defending with nonsensical analogies.

What are you talking about? I simply stated that some skills are made for certain purpose.

As I stated in my initial post, some skills are for fun, some are for casual, and some are for competitive. Which skills are those are obvious if you give a little effort in educating yourself.

If you don’t get the analogy, then that’s not my problem.

Sorry, that’s neither the way to have an enjoyable class nor a game that feels polished. It’s just a terrible approach to game design altogether.

That’s your personal opinion and many who enjoy P/P + traps in PvE will surely disagree with you based solely on their opinion.

This is why Anet is transitioning to separate PvE, PvP, and WvW because what is fun in one place, it’s not fun in another. What’s garbage skill in one place, it is golden in another.

This is not your game, it’s our game and you just have to live with that just like everybody else.

Issues.5789:

Daecollo.9578:

Unload:
Evade back while Unloading.

So you constantly evade as you unload.. Think about what you’re saying here.

Not only that, only two shots will hit because after evading backwards, you’re out of range. :P

This one is classic.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

Fighting a good thief is no fun at all. You keep having to hit nearest target to lock on, they’re blinking all over the place (the newer builds, I think it’s S/something, especially port-happy it seems) and it’s a chore.

It’s just annoying. Constantly fighting the GUI to keep the target locked, constantly having to re-apply conditions thanks to cleanse on stealth/port/whatever it is that’s doing it.

Kudos to the good thief. I guess that guy only wants to fight “bad” thieves…says a lot of what kind of player he is.

Grimwolf.7163:

You are seriously arguing that some skills are garbage because they’re supposed to be garbage, and so they should stay garbage?

Well, let’s explore that a bit. Let’s choose any of the “garbage” traps.

What improvement will make these skills viable for a mobile thief?

And why would you pick this newly improved trap over other better alternatives?

I personally can’t think of anything to use traps unless derping around with it. The fun factor is spot on and it’s golden, but to others outside the fun factor, it’s “garbage”.

Auesis.7301:

There is no excuse for a skill to be “garbage”. None. Whatsoever. You CANNOT justify it.

If course you can. Example, a Nerf© gun is fun, but I surely not going to use it to enforce the law.

EDIT:
overzealous filter

Einlanzer.1627:

1.) Downed State (PvE).

I have not been downed in PvE for a long time except when fighting the Claw, which a downed state is bad for everyone anyway.

I don’t expect that to be fix any time soon since it’s not happening often enough due to Thieves getting good at not going down in the first place.

2.). P/P.

It’s a weapon set for fun. If you want damage output, there are obviously better alternatives.

I rather see an SB fix than this.

3.). Stealth does not drop aggro- lolwut?

sigh…seriously?

4.) Trick Shot- the recent nerf hit the SB hard, and Trick Shot was already weak before the nerf. I’m actually okay with it not homing, but, like Vital Shot, it needs a speed/damage buff to be a usable, functional autoattack. The slow ranged autoattack issue hits Thieves harder than other classes because they rely on the autoattack as the only free source of DPS. The Shortbow is great when you can Clusterbomb-kill trash mobs and such, but is not a good DPS weapon which makes it more situational than it should be.

This shouldn’t be in your list, since I thought this thread if for “the changes that don’t happen and remain unaddressed month after month” — it’s been addressed and now it’s changed.

5.) Traps – Ambush is decent, the rest are pretty garbage.

You need to identify which skills are for fun, which are for casual, and which are for competitive. Then you’ll understand why some skills are perceived to be “garbage”

6.) Pistol Whip

I agree with this one. The stun should last long enough for you to finish your mini-100blades — or hasten the mini-100blades so it will complete within the duration of the stun — or increase the damage per swing and cut the number of swings to 3 swings, total damage remain the same.

7.) Richochet -

The reason why this is the way it is is because of Unload. Increasing the chance to 40% will make this over powered. TBH, I could care less about this trait because if I want a bouncing projectile, I’d use a SB. It seems to me this is just a filler, so I don’t expect this to receive a serious attention.

Bounty Theft is a boon stripper, not a boonsteal like LS. If it strip a might stack, you get one stack of might regardless of how many stacks you stripped.

It’s a bad trait except for the vigor buff, it’s not like you have other choice in that tier anyway.

To answer your question, I would have to say yes.

It seems to me that you are wasting initiatives. A D/D weapon set should take down anything up to 2 levels above you. A D/P weapon set should allow you to survive better. Using a sword should kill things rather fast too.

Two things you need to keep in mind; 1) Upgrade your weapons often, use the karma weapon as much as possible 2) Upgrade your chest piece and leg piece armors at least every 5 levels.

And lastly, tell your friends that the reason you are in this server is to play with them so they need to start playing with you. But even without them, you should be fine. Just use your skills and dodges wisely.

Kadin.3086:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Kadin.3086:

OH hand pistol doesn’t proc, working as intended?

Questions:
- Did you crit with your off-hand?
- Did you crit in the last 10 second?
- Do know that there’s only 60% chance to trigger on crit?

yes; shouldn’t matter; yes

2nd one matters…a lot.

It’s easy to test this, if you really want to know the answer.

- Spec “Hidden Killer”
- Stealth → headshot (watch for cripple)
- repeat

If after several tries it didn’t cause cripple, then you might have found a bug.

PearlGore.7419:

60% chance on crit to remove a boon, we can pretty much already do this with all our tools used.

So the question stands: Why do we need more boon-hating-skills?

randomfightfan.4091:

@ vincent, do you not see the problem with the attack blatantly missing when your character is supposed to have batman level accuracy? If the attack was such a problem then why not make ranger arrows and guardian scepter “heat seek” as well instead of breaking the 1 slow moving projectile that actually works in this game.

If that isn’t an option, then make other slow moving projectiles lose their heat seeking. Perfect example of this is the jotun in arah p1. If we can’t hit a moving target then why should things like that hit?

I’ve acknowledge the problem and I have posted in the other thread what I believe need to happen before they start tweaking anything.

It seems that Anet is doing a little house cleaning and re-classified Trick shot as the same as any other arrows projectile. But what they failed in that regards is that our AA arrows are not even traveling at the same speed as any other arrow, so that part needs to be fixed. If the projectile speed is fixed, I’m sure that there will be more hits. Also they need to fix the activation time, comparing it with Ranger’s SB AA, we should be firing much faster than them.

TL;DR
Our SB needs to fire and travel faster.

Any projectile shouldn’t be 100% hit especially against a moving or strafing target.

What needs to happen are as follow;
1) Fix the activation time bug. If it stated 1/4s, it should fire every 1/4s.
2) Fix the projectile speed. It should hit more often even at the max of 900 range.

If those are fixed, the damage should increase even without changing the damage. Then they can balance it from that point on to however they want to — at least fix the bug first (same issue with the pistol, but that’s another topic).

Pixels.6532:

If you’re interested, I put this together using buildcraft’s coefficients (still has the old flanking strike in it). I think it’s accurate, shows that even at fairly high power, the active benefit is fairly small.

I wasn’t 100% sure of how the active boost works in formula, I assumed it applies before the armor is taken into account. Check for errors, I did this very quickly…

The activated effect scales up as power and crit damage goes up compare to a flat 180 power from the passive.

We also have identified that 1200 or less base power is better off not using the activated effect since it will not result to a more damage, instead it will only reduce your total power by 180 while the signet is in CD.

At 1600 power, activating the signet will net you roughly 4%-5% damage increase for your next 5 hits, then after 5 hits, a loss of roughly 11%-12% damage for 30s.

So even without factoring armor, we can see what our base damage is going to be.

So the question is; when do you activate the signet? And the answer is; when you want to burst something that will result on your target’s death so that the damage loss at the end will be negligible.

Frenk.5917:

xmtrcv.5236:

2013
January

• Spider Venom, Devourer Venom, Ice Drake Venom, Skale Venom, Basilisk Venom, Assassin’s Signet
  The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.

That was a buff. Without this the venom share wouldn’t be viable.

Nothing was buffed. It was a bug fix. Or simply redefining what a “hit” means.

EDIT:
Having it on the list is not enough reason to call it a buff. In the recent patch, they included the CnD bug fix that I’ve mistaken for a buff.

Kadin.3086:

OH hand pistol doesn’t proc, working as intended?

Questions:
- Did you crit with your off-hand?
- Did you crit in the last 10 second?
- Do know that there’s only 60% chance to trigger on crit?

Einlanzer.1627:

PearlGore.7419:

If it should never have been homing then it needed far more damage and a different name.

This is correct. Not being homing is fine. Not being homing while doing abysmal damage even when it hits at slow speed with 900 max range is not fine.

If this was a ‘bugfix’, then Trick Shot needs a compensatory buff. It was already among the weaker autoattacks in the game.

IMO, I think Anet wants us to play SB after the fix so that they have numbers to compare. But the backlash is to stop playing it at all.

I like this approach better because they fix the bug first, then tweak it, rather than tweaking it based on a buggy skill.

Based on the tooltip, our SB AA suppose to fire at a faster rate than Ranger’s SB AA — but the reality is — based on my observation — we don’t fire the next shot until the first shot arrow have bounced 4 times. We should be firing arrows ever 1/4s and have it bounce all over the place.

Just to clarify.

When you’re moving, that’s not running which means you have 0% running speed.

Any increase in movement speed is a running speed.

With swiftness, you are running at 33% running speed = 133% movement speed.

Normal running speed is from passives like Signet of Shadows at 25%.

So you double that running speed, you get 50%.

So comparing swiftness with Slickshoes belt tool, will not give you a noticeable difference.

Agonoize.4021:

It still is a Trick shot, It tricks you to believe it register a hit.

lol, I was just gonna post something along that line, but yours is better.

Ekemeister.8905:

The signet used to give a meager amount of power but the active boosted your damage by 150% on the next strike. The next version had a boosted damage for next 5 strikes but at a lower bonus rate. Now it’s this: some 15%.

Man, why do you have to open old wounds.

Jeeze!!!

Now I’m hurting again — Thanks A Lot!

Dasorine.1964:

well with 1600 base power the 180 power should equate to around 11.25% increase, compared to the actives 15%

In that situation it wouldn’t take long for the passive to overtake the active, but that is a) quite a low base power b) ignorable if the target dies in the 5 15% boosted hits but survives the 5 11% boosted hits (as thats the point of burst)

15% of 1600 is 240, that’s only 60 power difference. But the loss of 180 for 30s is a loss of 11.25% damage.

Dasorine.1964:

ahh right, cos criticals should push the signet damage a bit further ahead (so more hits with 180 power needed to catch up) buts its all academic

Even without the critical, it is greater within that 5 attacks, but the down time is my main concern.

If it doesn’t drop the 180 power on activation, it would be a nice increase of DPS every 30s, which is useful not only when bursting.

Auesis.7301:

Where it REALLY shines, though, is against Dredge. If you wait for the Disaggregators to give out their full durations, you can use LS on every companion mob. So far, I’ve managed to stack up 2+ minutes of Protection and Regeneration on myself against big packs. I would also get 10-15 stacks of Might if I did some repeat steals. Nevermind the fact that you also significantly debuff the group and make it less threatening.

lol, that’s right. Those buggers like to stack a huge amount of boons.

Dasorine.1964:

did you calculate in critical damage factors? and what base power did you use?

(yes you agree with me, but now you got me doing maths your not allowed to escape! :P)

lol.

No, I didn’t include critical and I use a full zerker build and 30/30/10 traits. I used that sexy spreadsheet made by Puandro.

Dasorine.1964:

well 15% is still significantly greater on those 5 attacks with 180 power once your past the 1200 base power mark and of course its for a completely different situation.

If your clearing trash or starting a boss fight that 180 power will be more damage over a longer period of time, however once they are in that butter zone where burst then becomes key (last bit of a end boss health for example) the active suddenly becomes worth loosing that 180 power for the 36-45 seconds because ideally the fight should be over in or close to those 5 hits (and at a reasonably high base power level that 180 power could require 20+ more hits to achieve the same “bonus” damage)

If you get signets of power then for 5 seconds while your doing your 5 attacks you only loose 5 power (granted before you used to gain a lot of power instead) meaning its even more handy for burst situations.

It’s not 20+ more hits, the difference is actually ~200 damage so they are not far off from each other, but that’s only comparing 5 swings with 180 and 5 swings with 15%. After that, our damage drops by ~500 dmg for the duration of the cool down.

But like I said, I agree with you in a burst situation.

Daecollo.9578:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crossfire
Actual activation time is 0.54 seconds. | Listed as 0.5

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Trick_Shot
Actual activation time is 0.95 seconds. | Listed as 0.25

Looks like crossfire needs “brought in line”, if it is 0.54 seconds basing it off crossfire, it should be 2.16 seconds!

That’s like the general problem with Thieves auto-attacks. Per attack is actually (animation time + activation time) where it should be (animation time = activation time), that’s why we take longer between auto-attacks than what is listed.